Cutler of Vandy (1 Viewer)

[Bloom]

Leinart has very few "great plays" on his resume (his teammates sure do though).  Cutler and Young probably triple Leinart's career "great plays" in just this season alone.  Of course we may not agree on what constitutes a great play.

I think you're right here. however, how many "great plays" does brady make? thats my #1 compare to leinart. Brady never looks spectacular, the list of his highlight plays would be pretty boring. The best example I can think of of a Leinart "great play" this year was the absolutely 100% perfect throw to jarrett on 4th down vs. ND. you might say, so what, he did what he was supposed to - but to me, the fact that he did that, in that situation, speaks volumes about his future. Cutler may have made highlight plays running for his life in vandy, but can he surgically run an NFL offense? can he make plays on the biggest of stages? Can he make not only accurate throws, but throws that put the receivers in the best position to make plays? signs point to yes, but this is still an unknown - as was said earlier in this thread, we already know if leinart can.

 

[Jason Wood]

Hey Chaos,

Just to be clear, these aren't MY list of Cutler's flaws...but those of NFL Draft Scout, who no disrespect to you, I'm going to lean toward when I don't have a strong opinion of a player in my own right.

Clear as a bell. I'm pretty comfortable playing contrarian on this one, and a little amused by all the new Cutler supporters. I was very possibly ahead of the curve on a road that's going straight off a cliff.

Chaos,I've got a TON of respect for the way you go about your business, and think that you [more than 99% of the other Cutler apologists] are geniuine in your analysis. That said, how can I take your views seriously when you say Matt Leinart hasn't made many big plays in his career?

That's BAFFLING...4th down to Jarrett vs. Notre Dame? The big [on the money] completions late in the 4th quarter to retake the lead against Fresno State? His dismantling of OU last year?

 

[stevec]

I think Chaos is talking about the "highlight reel" type of play which makes you go "Wow!"Those are nice, but if you're consistent & effective, you'll not need them very much. While Leinart has made good plays, we haven't seen him tested often by pressure and coverage and lack of talent around him ... he's going to get that in the NFL.

 

[-OZ-]

I like Cutler's potential, but will not take him over Leinart (unless Leinart is in Houston and Cutler in Oakland).

What if Leinart is in New Orleans, as expected, and Cutler is in a) Detroit, b)Arizona, or c) Miami? I think those are the most likely scenarios at this point. For fantasy purposes, I prefer Cutler in AZ, but the other two are very tough.

It's kind of sad that I was pondering this on my afternoon run. I'll take almost any QB in Arizona over a lot, just over Leinart in NO. Miami is closer, but probably Leinart in NO. Detroit? Man, as a fan I'd have to lean that way, but I'd do so knowing that I'm probably making a mistake.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

... The best example I can think of of a Leinart "great play" this year was the absolutely 100% perfect throw to jarrett on 4th down vs. ND. you might say, so what, he did what he was supposed to - but to me, the fact that he did that, in that situation, speaks volumes about his future....

Bloom, Cutler made many similar game saving plays in his career. A couple even last season, notably the Arkansas game. The following are some game quotes from the AP for the 05 season some of you not familiar with Vandy (and Cutler) may be interested in reading.Again I am not suggesting drafting Cutler ahead of Leinart, just stating that Cutler is an excellent prospect with a whole lot of heart.

Week 1 @ Wake Forest:

"With under 2 minutes to play, trailing by three, the Commodores put together a four-play, 49-yard drive, starting with a 28-yard pass from Cutler to Earl Bennett. Then, after Cutler connected with George Smith for a 7-yard gain, Jennings carried twice for the final 14 yards and a 24-20 lead."

Week 2 @ Arkansas:

..."Cutler completed a 19-yard pass to Erik Davis on fourth-and-10 from his own 34-yard line to keep the winning drive alive.."

"Cutler threw a 6-yard touchdown pass to Marlon White with 26 seconds remaining to give Vanderbilt its second straight come-from-behind win, 28-24 over Arkansas on Saturday night"

Week 3 against Ole Miss:

"Jay Cutler threw for 314 yards and ran for another 58, leading Vanderbilt to a 31-23 victory Saturday over Mississippi that made the Commodores 3-0 for the first time since 1984."

Week 4 against Richmond:

"Jay Cutler threw for 263 yards and three touchdowns as Vanderbilt improved to 4-0 for the first time since 1984 with a 37-13 victory over Division I-AA Richmond on Saturday night.

Cutler, 28-of-40 with no interceptions, set the school's total yardage record with 6,769 and also broke the touchdown record with 44 in front 38,446, the largest crowd at Vanderbilt Stadium in four years."

Week 5 against MTSU:

Cutler drives Vandy from his own 1 yard line to the MTSU 19 yrd line in final 2 minutes of the game. Vandy has game winning 36 yrd filed goal blocked as time expires.

Week 6 against LSU:

Game tied after 3 Q, LSU wins handily, not Cutlers best game.

Week 7 against Georgia:

Cutler played alright, team had some crucial drops and lost to UGA.

Week 8 @ South Carolina:

"Cutler was 27-of-49 for 339 yards, one TD and one interception in the loss."

Week 9 @ Florida:

"Cutler threw for 361 yards and four touchdowns, including two in the final 2:17 of regulation to send the game into overtime."

Week 10 against UK:

"The Commodores (4-6, 2-5 Southeastern Conference) trailed 34-10 at halftime, but three touchdown catches by Earl Bennett in the fourth quarter -- he had five for the game -- got them within five.

Jay Cutler threw a 7-yard scoring pass to Bennett with 2:29 left, but Vanderbilt failed on its 2-point conversion try and Kentucky (3-6, 2-4) was able to hang on for the win."

Week 11 @ YewwT:

"Earl Bennett caught a 5-yard touchdown pass from Jay Cutler with 1:11 to go and the Commodores beat Tennessee 28-24 on Saturday.

Vanderbilt (5-6, 3-5 SEC) won in Neyland Stadium for the first time since 1975, and their overall streak dating to 1982 was the second-longest between major teams in Division I-A. Notre Dame's 42-game winning streak over Navy is the longest.

"You see grown men crying and you realize how long it's been since we've won," Cutler said. "It tells us how much it means to this program."

---------------------------------------

Cutler led the team in 4 Comeback wins, and 4 near miss comeback wins. His defense was terrible all season, yet he never gave up on games, especially when trailing by 3 scores in the 4th quarter in several games.

 

[The (Grid)Iron Giant]

I think Chaos is talking about the "highlight reel" type of play which makes you go "Wow!"

Those are nice, but if you're consistent & effective, you'll not need them very much. While Leinart has made good plays, we haven't seen him tested often by pressure and coverage and lack of talent around him ... he's going to get that in the NFL.

Exactly. Not to be a broken record, but you beat the Tampa 2 zones everyone runs with accuracy and timing. Leinart will require you to have better athletes than his horses or some kind of LeBeau-esque creativity. Otherwise, he'll pick you apart.

 

[-OZ-]

I think Chaos is talking about the "highlight reel" type of play which makes you go "Wow!"

Those are nice, but if you're consistent & effective, you'll not need them very much. While Leinart has made good plays, we haven't seen him tested often by pressure and coverage and lack of talent around him ... he's going to get that in the NFL.

Exactly. Not to be a broken record, but you beat the Tampa 2 zones everyone runs with accuracy and timing. Leinart will require you to have better athletes than his horses or some kind of LeBeau-esque creativity. Otherwise, he'll pick you apart.

I hate to make the comparison again, but the more I read from posters, the more Leinart is sounding like a somewhat weaker Peyton Manning - except Leinart won a big game.

 

[cstu]

Dan Patrick just had JAWS on and he was saying that Cutler has been flying up the draft chart so much that some teams would actually rather pick Cutler over both Leinart and Young.

Phillip Rivers II

I don't consider the Cutler/Rivers comparison a bad thing. Rivers is still a top young QB regardless of the fact that he hasn't had a chance to play. Unlike Eli and Ben, Rivers got stuck behind a QB who developed into a Pro Bowl player. He's far from a bust and the Chargers organization still looks at him as their QB of the future even though they have a QB who has played great the past two years.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Well, I'm knee high in it now, may as well take the plunge.

Hey Chaos,

Just to be clear, these aren't MY list of Cutler's flaws...but those of NFL Draft Scout, who no disrespect to you, I'm going to lean toward when I don't have a strong opinion of a player in my own right.

Clear as a bell. I'm pretty comfortable playing contrarian on this one, and a little amused by all the new Cutler supporters. I was very possibly ahead of the curve on a road that's going straight off a cliff.

Chaos,I've got a TON of respect for the way you go about your business, and think that you [more than 99% of the other Cutler apologists] are geniuine in your analysis. That said, how can I take your views seriously when you say Matt Leinart hasn't made many big plays in his career?

That's BAFFLING...4th down to Jarrett vs. Notre Dame? The big [on the money] completions late in the 4th quarter to retake the lead against Fresno State? His dismantling of OU last year?

Thanks, I've said before I have nothing but respect for your opinions, and when we disagree it's been civil and informative. I've also said I respect the opinion of those who think Leinart is clearly the best QB of this class. It's certainly an understandable position that's easily supported. Hopefully, all three of these QBs are great. But, we are trying to decide between them now, and it's probable one or two of the three end up being disappointing... just guessing from the historical record. I never said Leinart hasn't made "great plays". I do think there's very few of them in comparison to who we're discussing in this conversation. And I personally place a lot of weight on these kinds of plays. To use a cliche-- they translate to the NFL. They're not even great in the NFL. They are a prerequisite, and we see them in every half of every game a good QB plays. I don't place much weight on the running plays, btw. Eh, it's nice to have a QB with the ability to avoid trouble and make a play. It can be the difference in winning or losing, but Roethlisberger is agile enough for me. Leinart? Probably not. I'll respond to the Brady comparison and Bloom when I get a chance here tonight, but you mention the Fresno game as an example of great plays from Leinart.

There were none. It was the Reggie Bush show. I have this one on tape. Leinart's team scored 50 and he threw one 6 yard td pass to a wide open Steve Smith while missing all but one of his down field throws (three which should have been tds, but he was short on one, way off left on one, and put another out of bounds). Not counting Bush's amazing 43 yarder, Leinart's longest pass plays were 11 yards to Smith on the opening drive which ended in a punt, and a 13 yard screen to Bush when he was going goofy. Matt started slow and got his percentage up with very very short passes, mostly RB and WR screens with a few quick slants. These have been the staple of his career (honestly). He did lead a short and sweet drive (after a pick) that led to Smith's td. It was a screen to Jarrett, a misdirection dump to his fullback while everyone was chasing Reggie, and the slant to Smith for the TD. They were all under 10 yard plays. No great plays. All very simple and any Pac 10 QB makes them.

It was an epic game for Bush. You can get it on tape or DVD and refer me to a play of Leinart's that you would consider great. I'll consider it.

I would guess Leinart had about 10 great plays on the season (less, to be totally honest). Cutler and Young surely had 30 a piece. Again, they are prerequisite to success in the NFL, imo.

Against Kentucky, Cutler was leading a comeback down two scores, with time running out, and it was 3rd and 19. He had just taken a big hit on first down on a sack, and then was forced to throw the ball away on second down. He took the snap and immediately ducked a linebacker. He rose up, waited a tick, and launched a laser over the middle above an open receiver 10 yards down the field who wouldn't get the first and right between the numbers of a tightly covered player 28 yards down the field and about 35 yards from Cutler. He never saw the completion because he got nailed as he threw the ball. It translated nicely to what we see every Sunday. Leinart is not capable of making that play. He doesn't have the arm strength, a quick enough release, or the accuracy at that distance. He makes the short pass if he avoids the pressure, which I doubt he would have.

I'm getting way too long-winded. This goes against my better judgment. Sorry, but it is an interesting topic to me.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I just know Cutler is going to lay an egg tomorrow.

Pinegar did after Bloom was impressed with him.

At the risk of being to Cutler what SSOG is to Mike Anderson, I'll continue. sigh...

The best example I can think of of a Leinart "great play" this year was the absolutely 100% perfect throw to jarrett on 4th down vs. ND. you might say, so what, he did what he was supposed to - but to me, the fact that he did that, in that situation, speaks volumes about his future.

I debated this play with Wood shortly after the ND game. First, it absolutely belongs on top of any list of Leinart's great plays this season. But it wasn't a 100% perfect throw. Oy, no one should nitpick like this, but it was underthrown. Had he led Jarrett it was six. Jarrett did an incredible job too. Matt was a little short, still a great pass, and Jarrett slowed down, adjusted, needed awesome concentration because the ball flew right between the hands of the ND CB who had his back turned and was very lucky the ball was a little short (though Leinart was equally lucky it wasn't deflected), and Jarrett caught it low against his body above his hip. If it's in his hands and in stride, Jarrett is gone. Under the conditions, definitely a great play for both QB and WR. I stipulate.

Cutler may have made highlight plays running for his life in vandy, but can he surgically run an NFL offense? can he make plays on the biggest of stages? Can he make not only accurate throws, but throws that put the receivers in the best position to make plays? signs point to yes, but this is still an unknown - as was said earlier in this thread, we already know if leinart can.

I don't know if either of them can. They both have alot in the pro column and some concerns in the con column. They have very different things in each column though. They're not similar. Again, I'd rather develop the guy with the accurate gun and quick feet, than the guy with the experience in a pro style offense. Again, I think Cutler's experience making quick decisions under pressure translates better than Leinart's pro style offense with tremendous protection and far superior athletes in the pattern. Needless to say, they're both in for some culture shock.Drew Brees had an arm strength issue and did some very unique training to strengthen his torso and increase his core flexibility, and supposedly it produced the 20 yard out NFL coaches are so interested in seeing. Leinart needs something like this. Brees also developed something Brady has-- discussed below.

I think you're right here. however, how many "great plays" does brady make? thats my #1 compare to leinart. Brady never looks spectacular, the list of his highlight plays would be pretty boring.

I think Brady makes tons of plays that I would classify as "great" for what I seek at the college level-- plays that translate. He has all the throws. Brady and Brees are both criticised for their arm strength. I disagree. The both fire the ball into tight spaces when they have to. Against Oakland Brady's arm looked tremendously strong. He put it on a rope several times deep down the field and very accurately. It was impressive and he does it in every game. It takes all his strength.A hs coach who runs California's most prolific passing game explained it to me like this. Any reasonably athletic person can take the pitcher's mound and learn to throw strikes at 3/4 arm strength. By reducing the power of the throw, accuracy can be achieved. But to be a great pitcher or an NFL qb, you have to be able to put 100% behind the ball and still be accurate. Even if that 100% isn't exceptionally strong. A guy with a big arm like Palmer or Cutler can bring down the power percentage (has to bring it back most of the time) and achieve better accuracy while still having zip on the ball, more zip than a Brady or a Leinart when they really heave it. It's a huge advantage for the cannon armed player, and it's a very special player who can do what Brees and Brady do-- crank it all the way up with accuracy.

I have argued before that Leinart can crank it up and his arm strength will pass the NFL sniff test in his workouts. What I haven't seen is him crank it up AND be accurate. Quite the opposite really. Harrington has had this problem since way before he was drafted and hasn't been able to fix it. Leinart's interception against Texas was lobbed accurately, sheesh it floated for a long time and the DB covered about 15 yards to make the pick as the receiver twiddled his thumbs wide open in the endzone. I have seen him throw a dozen similar tds against lesser defenses. Young and Cutler can both get that pass there accurately before the DB closes. I have never seen Leinart do this. And Young is very hesitant to throw as hard as he can; it worries me a little about him. Cutler has a gun and he's confident in it. He doesn't need to become a very special thrower like Brees or Brady to make all the NFL throws. Boller is a great example of the opposite. He has the gun, but just cannot master the accuracy.

So, comparing Leinart to Brady means he has to develop this ability to fire it very very hard and be accurate. I have my doubts having witnessed all his hard throws sail off high, or be far from the mark. I'm serious. I have never seen him complete one. His touch throws are beautiful, but they don't translate. If he develops this ability, yep, he is very Brady-esque.

Cutler, unlike Boller and like Palmer, has a nice touch game too. Both Carson and Jay (Culpepper and McNair too) were great basketball players. Sounds like an odd thing to consider, but I have played a ton of hoops, and you develop touch on the court (or you suck), especially when you throw the long ball in basketball, which is the short ball in football. I know.

In that same vein, I think Cutler's resume has some very impressive information in it. Leinart was an okay pitcher when he wasn't playing football, but he admits he couldn't hit. He admits he's not a very good athlete (humble remember), just a smart quarterback. Cutler was an all-state short stop. He led his basketball team in scoring for two straight years (in Indiana, btw). In football he was as decorated as you can be in Indiana, and he led his team to the state championship with a 15-0 record. He started at safety and QB. He set tons of QB records, but he also had 88 solo tackles, a few interceptions (one returned for a touchdown), and he ran 6 kickoffs back for tds. This kid is a gamer, a supremely gifted athlete, like Carson, Daunte and Steve McNair, and he has a really sweet arm with terrific athletic playmaking awareness.

I'm sure he's thoroughly jinxed now.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Cutler reminds me more of JP Losman than Kyle Boller, which seems to be the popular comparison...Colin

 

[cstu]

I'm sure he's thoroughly jinxed now.

.With this much hype, I'm sure. However, I'll be very impressed if he looks good tomorrow considering he knows everyone will be watching him and it means the difference of 10-20 draft spots.

 

[Chaos Commish]

A reasonably balanced read on the situation.

Rick Neuheisel seems to like him and sort of validates my thinking about the importance of arm strength.

"I'm impressed with how he carries himself, how the team kind of goes where he goes," Ravens quarterbacks coach Rick Neuheisel said. "He's got that 'it' factor in terms of making others around him play up." (...)

He said Cutler as "great arm strength" — so much that he may overthrow the ball at times.

That's fine, because a coach can dial it down on a quarterback who has it, but can't create it for one that doesn't, Neuheisel said.

"It's kind of like art. Some people appreciate this, some people appreciate that. So everybody's got their own little song and dance as to how they teach footwork," he said. "His is at least consistent enough for his balance as a platform of throwing that that's not going to be an issue.

"He'll be dissected like a seventh grade biology class by the time the draft comes around, and people will make those things out like those are big things. But I think at the end of the day they won't be considered huge detriments."

(bold mine)

 

[MSULions]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

 

[RnR]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

Well, that settles things.

 

[cstu]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

Well, that settles things.

He was forcing things, but you have to like how hard he throws on the run. I think Dolphins fans would be ecstatic so far.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

That was a sweet pick though. That safety from Texas made a fabulous play, wish my Chargers had a safety who could make a play like that.

 

[RnR]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

Well, that settles things.

He was forcing things, but you have to like how hard he throws on the run. I think Dolphins fans would be ecstatic so far.

Let's be honest, that Texas safety made one hell of a play. He basically flew over the shoulder of Hagan without laying a finger on him. Says more about him than the throw Cutler made.

 

[cstu]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

That was a sweet pick though. That safety from Texas made a fabulous play, wish my Chargers had a safety who could make a play like that.

Would it be asking too much to have him slide to #19?

 

[MSULions]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

That was a sweet pick though. That safety from Texas made a fabulous play, wish my Chargers had a safety who could make a play like that.

Oh I agree....just noting that he didn't exactly light it up. he does have a strong arm. I hope his stock keeps rising so the Lions can trade down with Miami and take Justice and gain a pick or two.

 

[Chaos Commish]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

Well, that settles things.

He was forcing things, but you have to like how hard he throws on the run. I think Dolphins fans would be ecstatic so far.

Let's be honest, that Texas safety made one hell of a play. He basically flew over the shoulder of Hagan without laying a finger on him. Says more about him than the throw Cutler made.

True enough, but that's the type of mistake he cannot make. He did throw that bowl 40 yards into the wind on a rope and it would have hit Hagan in the chest if it wasn't picked. Nice arm, bad brain. He looks very hesitant too. Eh, it's one game under odd circumstances. I didn't see anything to worry me considering how he's done all week and most of the scouts and NFLers barely pay attention to the game.

 

[-OZ-]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

Well, that settles things.

He was forcing things, but you have to like how hard he throws on the run. I think Dolphins fans would be ecstatic so far.

LOL, I'm sure they're ecstatic that Detroit will be drafting a QB.

 

[RnR]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

Well, that settles things.

He was forcing things, but you have to like how hard he throws on the run. I think Dolphins fans would be ecstatic so far.

Let's be honest, that Texas safety made one hell of a play. He basically flew over the shoulder of Hagan without laying a finger on him. Says more about him than the throw Cutler made.

True enough, but that's the type of mistake he cannot make. He did throw that bowl 40 yards into the wind on a rope and it would have hit Hagan in the chest if it wasn't picked. Nice arm, bad brain. He looks very hesitant too. Eh, it's one game under odd circumstances. I didn't see anything to worry me considering how he's done all week and most of the scouts and NFLers barely pay attention to the game.

Mistake? 9 out of 10 times that's a TD pass. Nothing wrong with the throw or the decision, IMO.

 

[Chaos Commish]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

Well, that settles things.

He was forcing things, but you have to like how hard he throws on the run. I think Dolphins fans would be ecstatic so far.

Let's be honest, that Texas safety made one hell of a play. He basically flew over the shoulder of Hagan without laying a finger on him. Says more about him than the throw Cutler made.

True enough, but that's the type of mistake he cannot make. He did throw that bowl 40 yards into the wind on a rope and it would have hit Hagan in the chest if it wasn't picked. Nice arm, bad brain. He looks very hesitant too. Eh, it's one game under odd circumstances. I didn't see anything to worry me considering how he's done all week and most of the scouts and NFLers barely pay attention to the game.

Mistake? 9 out of 10 times that's a TD pass. Nothing wrong with the throw or the decision, IMO.

Look, my criticism of Jay Cutler is being debated. It was intercepted. There was a wide open back in the flat. Great throw. Great defensive play. If anything he showed one of the things that I'm so impressed with, but it was intercepted. No way around it.

 

[Chaos Commish]

The touchdown pass he threw is another thing about him that impresses. That fast release and accurate heat right into a barely open players chest. It translates nicely.The out that was dropped was a nice throw too. He looked very bad running the two screen passes though. He's a project, but he has NFL quality skills.

 

[RnR]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

Well, that settles things.

He was forcing things, but you have to like how hard he throws on the run. I think Dolphins fans would be ecstatic so far.

Let's be honest, that Texas safety made one hell of a play. He basically flew over the shoulder of Hagan without laying a finger on him. Says more about him than the throw Cutler made.

True enough, but that's the type of mistake he cannot make. He did throw that bowl 40 yards into the wind on a rope and it would have hit Hagan in the chest if it wasn't picked. Nice arm, bad brain. He looks very hesitant too. Eh, it's one game under odd circumstances. I didn't see anything to worry me considering how he's done all week and most of the scouts and NFLers barely pay attention to the game.

Mistake? 9 out of 10 times that's a TD pass. Nothing wrong with the throw or the decision, IMO.

Look, my criticism of Jay Cutler is being debated. It was intercepted. There was a wide open back in the flat. Great throw. Great defensive play. If anything he showed one of the things that I'm so impressed with, but it was intercepted. No way around it.

If we're calling that throw a "mistake", I'm not sure what throw isn't a possible mistake. Sure, the check down was open, but so was the primary receiver in the endzone. Great play by the safety, end of story.

 

[Chaos Commish]

one INT on the goal line so far for JC

Well, that settles things.

He was forcing things, but you have to like how hard he throws on the run. I think Dolphins fans would be ecstatic so far.

Let's be honest, that Texas safety made one hell of a play. He basically flew over the shoulder of Hagan without laying a finger on him. Says more about him than the throw Cutler made.

True enough, but that's the type of mistake he cannot make. He did throw that bowl 40 yards into the wind on a rope and it would have hit Hagan in the chest if it wasn't picked. Nice arm, bad brain. He looks very hesitant too. Eh, it's one game under odd circumstances. I didn't see anything to worry me considering how he's done all week and most of the scouts and NFLers barely pay attention to the game.

Mistake? 9 out of 10 times that's a TD pass. Nothing wrong with the throw or the decision, IMO.

Look, my criticism of Jay Cutler is being debated. It was intercepted. There was a wide open back in the flat. Great throw. Great defensive play. If anything he showed one of the things that I'm so impressed with, but it was intercepted. No way around it.

If we're calling that throw a "mistake", I'm not sure what throw isn't a possible mistake. Sure, the check down was open, but so was the primary receiver in the endzone. Great play by the safety, end of story.

I don't want to argue so...

Cutler is good.

 

[G3-175SE]

Dan Patrick just had JAWS on and he was saying that Cutler has been flying up the draft chart so much that some teams would actually rather pick Cutler over both Leinart and Young.

I hope not. I was hoping he would fall to mid teens so my team can draft him.

 

[Chaos Commish]

FWIW, Mort just did a piece on ESPN Insider saying that Cutler is better than both Young and Leinart. He noted the moxie, the charisma, the ability to lift his team to be competitive as huge traits for him. Coupled with his cannon, allowing balls to go on deep outs and into seems, skills that the other two QBs don't really have, and Mort puts Cutler at the top.

There you have it. No combine for Cutler (if he was ever considering it). Have a nice pro day. Wear a nice suit to New York and land a top ten first round slot to a decent team. And maybe be the best qb in the draft after a couple of years sort of like Roethlisberger.

J

He said he's going to attend the Combine. He expects it to be much more hectic than Senior Bowl week, but a lot of fun too. I cannot see how he could possibly help himself financially by being there. Seems like unnecessary risk to me.

 

[cstu]

FWIW, Mort just did a piece on ESPN Insider saying that Cutler is better than both Young and Leinart. He noted the moxie, the charisma, the ability to lift his team to be competitive as huge traits for him. Coupled with his cannon, allowing balls to go on deep outs and into seems, skills that the other two QBs don't really have, and Mort puts Cutler at the top.

There you have it. No combine for Cutler (if he was ever considering it). Have a nice pro day. Wear a nice suit to New York and land a top ten first round slot to a decent team. And maybe be the best qb in the draft after a couple of years sort of like Roethlisberger.

J

He said he's going to attend the Combine. He expects it to be much more hectic than Senior Bowl week, but a lot of fun too. I cannot see how he could possibly help himself financially by being there. Seems like unnecessary risk to me.

Maybe he wants to show how good he is. Right now he's a mid-1st round pick and I don't think he's going to drop out of the top 20 even with a bad performance at the combine since Dallas or KC would take a shot on him.

 

[Jason Wood]

6 of 17 with 1 TD and 1 INT isn't going to get him into the top 5 folks...remember, it was a masterful performance in the game which vaulted Philip Rivers up into the top tier. Hilarious how all the Cutler apologists are writing things today like, "he showed enough to warrant consideration at a top-10 pick." Ummmm, he had ALREADY showed enough during the week of practice. What he failed to do, quite convincingly at that, was build off his great week of practice and cement himself as an elite prospect.Cutler really should go to the Combine now, particularly with Vince Young not shying away. In the passing drills, if he outperforms Young by a large margin, he'll get his momentum going again.I wonder if Mort is going to amend his article now

 

[-OZ-]

6 of 17 with 1 TD and 1 INT isn't going to get him into the top 5 folks...remember, it was a masterful performance in the game which vaulted Philip Rivers up into the top tier.

Hilarious how all the Cutler apologists are writing things today like, "he showed enough to warrant consideration at a top-10 pick." Ummmm, he had ALREADY showed enough during the week of practice. What he failed to do, quite convincingly at that, was build off his great week of practice and cement himself as an elite prospect.

Cutler really should go to the Combine now, particularly with Vince Young not shying away. In the passing drills, if he outperforms Young by a large margin, he'll get his momentum going again.

I wonder if Mort is going to amend his article now

I missed the first half, so I didn't see his performance. What was it exactly that kept him from completing more passes? I would think he's played against good competition before, but in this game he actually had a team around him, so you would think he'd do better than usual. Was he just not in synch with his WRs?

In the end, Cutler has the potential to be huge, but so did Ryan Leaf. Not to say he'll end up the same, but this game does make me wonder more about him than before. The combine won't change that.

 

[AB in DC]

Interesting that Mike Florio (of ProFootballTalk) is still talking up Cutler despite his Senior Bowl performance. I wonder how much yesterday's game actually hurt him.

 

[Jason Wood]

Interesting that Mike Florio (of ProFootballTalk) is still talking up Cutler despite his Senior Bowl performance. I wonder how much yesterday's game actually hurt him.

What it did was re-establish what he is...a physically gifted passer with the potential to be much more. He'll be a 1st rounder, but at least we can put to bed the silliness of his being a better prospect than Leinart.

 

[Not Really Mel Kiper]

One game should not make or break a player. He still gets to go to the combine where he will show off his arm. Cutler looks like a mid-first rounder who needs a coach which will help him be consistant. Cutler reminds me of Boller, just from watching him play. I wouldn't take him before pick 15.Good Qb's play smart football, not wild gun slinging football. Look at the two QB's in this years superbowl, look at last years superbowl.........I know who I would take #1 if I needed a QB in this years draft, He may not have the best arm, may not be the fastest, not really great at anything....good at everything......manages the game.

 

[Jason Wood]

One game should not make or break a player. He still gets to go to the combine where he will show off his arm. Cutler looks like a mid-first rounder who needs a coach which will help him be consistant. Cutler reminds me of Boller, just from watching him play. I wouldn't take him before pick 15.

Good Qb's play smart football, not wild gun slinging football. Look at the two QB's in this years superbowl, look at last years superbowl.........I know who I would take #1 if I needed a QB in this years draft, He may not have the best arm, may not be the fastest, not really great at anything....good at everything......manages the game.

Exactly...that's why I never understand when someone gets all giddy about a prospect who compares to Brett Favre. Favre is the exception that proves the rule. He's got awkward mechanics and is the definition of a gun slinger, but very few like him have ever made it work.In Cutler you have a guy who has the tools to be a solid NFL player, but you have no indication that he's going to be able to reign in that gunslinger mentality simply because he'll be in the NFL. The most ridiculous argument I hear in favor of Cutler is his lack of supporting cast at Vandy and how productive he was anyway. Yet, he was productive in large part because he had nothing to lose by going all out, turnovers be damned. 25 fumbles in the last two years, plenty of INTs, I just don't see how you can look at his game and project him to become the disciplined game manager you need in a SB-caliber QB.

 

[Bloom]

Still breaking down the tape of the senior bowl, but the two things that stood out most to me about Cutler in the first quarter - arm strength is legit (we already knew that), and he really rushed his throws under any sort of pressure.

 

[Mr. Vegas]

Still breaking down the tape of the senior bowl, but the two things that stood out most to me about Cutler in the first quarter - arm strength is legit (we already knew that), and he really rushed his throws under any sort of pressure.

I still say He is the best Qb coming out this year.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I missed the first half, so I didn't see his performance. What was it exactly that kept him from completing more passes?

Cutler apologist who's now watched the game three times. Four of Cutler's incompletions were screen passes. He looked awful trying to run that play and on each of the them the D had sniffed it out anyway. We all know how ugly any QB can look in that situation. Cutler looked particularly lost on that play. A fifth was tipped at the LoS by Hali. Four were nice throws dropped. Two by Hagan, one by Byrd and one by Demetrius Williams-- all perfectly placed passes. The interception was discussed above. They've shown it several times. It was an impressive throw into the wind, and a great defensive play. I've been corrected for calling it a mistake by someone above who thinks that's a td 9 times out of 10. I'm not so sure. It was also a little behind Hagan, but quite the rope into the wind and almost the type of play I have witnessed several times this year. he does have nice accuracy down the field. That's nine incompletions described. He overthrew an open TE while rolling left. Ten. He had a pass thrown into coverage broken up-- accurate again, but not a good decision. Eleven. Three of his completions were standard fare. He did show excellent touch to Byrd, over some defenders, and nicely dropped in his hands a good 20 yards down the field. He completed a sharp out which is one of the things I like about him. He has both the arm strength and accuracy to make the throw very quickly. No other QB at the game did. Some had the zip, but not the control. Some had the control but threw floaters. It is the key throw for scouts and Jay's were all good and twice dropped. His TD was a pretty run of the mill slant, but again it's his quick release and ability to put the ball in in a tiight spot with heat that impresses me.

All in all a mixed game that has the apologists unconcerned, and the doubters chuckling. If not for the drops he would be the toast of the town in all likelihood. If that was the case, I would be very cautious to praise him because of the poor decision making and floundering attempts to execute a screen pass-- something Croyle and Whitehurst did with ease.

Know that scouts and personnel types see all they need in the week of practice, and the chuckling doubters are enjoying an understandable bout of ignorance.

Palmer's Senior Bowl week was almost a mirror image of Cutler's (with the exception of the screen play thing). He was the only QB present who could accurately deliver the requisite throws, but he had a disappointing game. Cutler's stock was already too high to be improved at a game scouts disregard for the most part, but it doesn't appear he hurt himself either. Fisher called him the best of his QBs early in the week and the one who showed the most improvement over the course of the week. He wasn't nearly as impressive as Boller, Losman, or Campbell this week. He looked more like Palmer.

 

[Not Really Mel Kiper]

Please do not compare Cutler to Palmer...... :X

 

[Bloom]

Palmer's Senior Bowl week was almost a mirror image of Cutler's (with the exception of the screen play thing). He was the only QB present who could accurately deliver the requisite throws, but he had a disappointing game.

That has a lot more to do with the terrible quality of QBs at the senior bowl than Cutler being an elite prospect.

 

[Jason Wood]

I missed the first half, so I didn't see his performance. What was it exactly that kept him from completing more passes?

Cutler apologist who's now watched the game three times. Four of Cutler's incompletions were screen passes. He looked awful trying to run that play and on each of the them the D had sniffed it out anyway. We all know how ugly any QB can look in that situation. Cutler looked particularly lost on that play. A fifth was tipped at the LoS by Hali. Four were nice throws dropped. Two by Hagan, one by Byrd and one by Demetrius Williams-- all perfectly placed passes. The interception was discussed above. They've shown it several times. It was an impressive throw into the wind, and a great defensive play. I've been corrected for calling it a mistake by someone above who thinks that's a td 9 times out of 10. I'm not so sure. It was also a little behind Hagan, but quite the rope into the wind and almost the type of play I have witnessed several times this year. he does have nice accuracy down the field. That's nine incompletions described. He overthrew an open TE while rolling left. Ten. He had a pass thrown into coverage broken up-- accurate again, but not a good decision. Eleven. Three of his completions were standard fare. He did show excellent touch to Byrd, over some defenders, and nicely dropped in his hands a good 20 yards down the field. He completed a sharp out which is one of the things I like about him. He has both the arm strength and accuracy to make the throw very quickly. No other QB at the game did. Some had the zip, but not the control. Some had the control but threw floaters. It is the key throw for scouts and Jay's were all good and twice dropped. His TD was a pretty run of the mill slant, but again it's his quick release and ability to put the ball in in a tiight spot with heat that impresses me.

All in all a mixed game that has the apologists unconcerned, and the doubters chuckling. If not for the drops he would be the toast of the town in all likelihood. If that was the case, I would be very cautious to praise him because of the poor decision making and floundering attempts to execute a screen pass-- something Croyle and Whitehurst did with ease.

Know that scouts and personnel types see all they need in the week of practice, and the chuckling doubters are enjoying an understandable bout of ignorance.

Palmer's Senior Bowl week was almost a mirror image of Cutler's (with the exception of the screen play thing). He was the only QB present who could accurately deliver the requisite throws, but he had a disappointing game. Cutler's stock was already too high to be improved at a game scouts disregard for the most part, but it doesn't appear he hurt himself either. Fisher called him the best of his QBs early in the week and the one who showed the most improvement over the course of the week. He wasn't nearly as impressive as Boller, Losman, or Campbell this week. He looked more like Palmer.

The difference was that Palmer was already an elite NFL prospect who had just won the Heisman and played against arguably the toughest schedule in college that year. I love how you turned 6 of 17 into "if it weren't for the drops he would've been the toast of the town."

Cutler WON'T be a top 3 pick, but he will be a first rounder. 'nuff said.

 

[cstu]

I missed the first half, so I didn't see his performance. What was it exactly that kept him from completing more passes?

Cutler apologist who's now watched the game three times. Four of Cutler's incompletions were screen passes. He looked awful trying to run that play and on each of the them the D had sniffed it out anyway. We all know how ugly any QB can look in that situation. Cutler looked particularly lost on that play. A fifth was tipped at the LoS by Hali. Four were nice throws dropped. Two by Hagan, one by Byrd and one by Demetrius Williams-- all perfectly placed passes. The interception was discussed above. They've shown it several times. It was an impressive throw into the wind, and a great defensive play. I've been corrected for calling it a mistake by someone above who thinks that's a td 9 times out of 10. I'm not so sure. It was also a little behind Hagan, but quite the rope into the wind and almost the type of play I have witnessed several times this year. he does have nice accuracy down the field. That's nine incompletions described. He overthrew an open TE while rolling left. Ten. He had a pass thrown into coverage broken up-- accurate again, but not a good decision. Eleven. Three of his completions were standard fare. He did show excellent touch to Byrd, over some defenders, and nicely dropped in his hands a good 20 yards down the field. He completed a sharp out which is one of the things I like about him. He has both the arm strength and accuracy to make the throw very quickly. No other QB at the game did. Some had the zip, but not the control. Some had the control but threw floaters. It is the key throw for scouts and Jay's were all good and twice dropped. His TD was a pretty run of the mill slant, but again it's his quick release and ability to put the ball in in a tiight spot with heat that impresses me.

All in all a mixed game that has the apologists unconcerned, and the doubters chuckling. If not for the drops he would be the toast of the town in all likelihood. If that was the case, I would be very cautious to praise him because of the poor decision making and floundering attempts to execute a screen pass-- something Croyle and Whitehurst did with ease.

Know that scouts and personnel types see all they need in the week of practice, and the chuckling doubters are enjoying an understandable bout of ignorance.

Palmer's Senior Bowl week was almost a mirror image of Cutler's (with the exception of the screen play thing). He was the only QB present who could accurately deliver the requisite throws, but he had a disappointing game. Cutler's stock was already too high to be improved at a game scouts disregard for the most part, but it doesn't appear he hurt himself either. Fisher called him the best of his QBs early in the week and the one who showed the most improvement over the course of the week. He wasn't nearly as impressive as Boller, Losman, or Campbell this week. He looked more like Palmer.

Thanks for analyzing the game, it was very well done. Poor screen passes and dropped catches really hurt him. He did throw behind some people, understandable when your working with new players, but I thought he showed good ability to make throws and move around in the pocket.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Palmer's Senior Bowl week was almost a mirror image of Cutler's (with the exception of the screen play thing). He was the only QB present who could accurately deliver the requisite throws, but he had a disappointing game.

That has a lot more to do with the terrible quality of QBs at the senior bowl than Cutler being an elite prospect.

Very possibly, Bloom. I liked the Shriner QBs as a group better than this batch. I am being realistic in my apologetics.

 

[Chaos Commish]

1.The difference was that Palmer was already an elite NFL prospect who had just won the Heisman and played against arguably the toughest schedule in college that year.

2. I love how you turned 6 of 17 into "if it weren't for the drops he would've been the toast of the town."

3. Cutler WON'T be a top 3 pick, but he will be a first rounder. 'nuff said.

1. Sort of true. No one was really discussing Palmer as an elite talent until halfway through his senior year. The tools had been recognized, but he was heavily criticized in LA going into the season. The Heisman may be important to you. It's meaningless to me, I confess. Some greats have won it. Some busts have won it (generally weak armed QBs surrounded by awesome talent, btw). I think cautious evaluation of skillsets is required for Heisman winners as much as Div II QBs. 2. Hey Jason, I openly admit I'm on a bandwagon that may be going off a cliff and your criticism (even cynicism) is deserved (so, it's cool), but you took me way out of context here to the point of reversing my meaning by not even quoting a complete sentence and leaving off a follow up sentence that starts with "IF". I call that a cheapshot. I'll bold what you dismissed:

"If not for the drops he would be the toast of the town in all likelihood. If that was the case, I would be very cautious to praise him because of the poor decision making and floundering attempts to execute a screen pass-- something Croyle and Whitehurst did with ease."

I should add that as many as three of those bad plays could very easily have gone for six the other way. It wasn't pretty, and it would have been disastrous in an NFL stadium. I admit it. Okay?

3. Agree 100%. I'm shocked he's being discussed in the top 15. I thought he'd end up being a late first rounder like Campbell or linger into the second with this big batch of QBs who aren't very impressive. I have said I think he is better than Leinart. I have never said I thought he would be taken before him just because I prefer him. I guess some of these scouts are better than I thought.

 

[BoulderBob]

Cutler does seem to have happy feet. 4 years at Vandy will do that to a QB. He will need to fix this to be a good NFL QB.

 

[helix]

Still breaking down the tape of the senior bowl, but the two things that stood out most to me about Cutler in the first quarter - arm strength is legit (we already knew that), and he really rushed his throws under any sort of pressure.

I still say He is the best Qb coming out this year.

Cutler = Losman.

 

[Not Really Mel Kiper]

Still breaking down the tape of the senior bowl, but the two things that stood out most to me about Cutler in the first quarter - arm strength is legit (we already knew that), and he really rushed his throws under any sort of pressure.

I still say He is the best Qb coming out this year.

Cutler = Losman.

Come on, he's better than that ...Cutler = Boller

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Jason, did you watch the whole game, or are you just going off the box score? Honest question.

 

[RnR]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before. There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards. The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball. Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.