Cutler will not report on Monday (1 Viewer)

[bryan215]

Cutler's stats are largely inflated do to his team's horrific division and defense along with his team's inability to score in the red zone. He is however more physically talented than most of the other QBs in the league. The problem is he has shown that he is somewhat lacking in the area that truly makes a player great - drive, work ethic, film study, leadership, etc. He coasts on his physical ability and thus may not make huge improvements in those other areas. Brady/Manning etc showed these abilities from their rookie year...maybe Cutler is a bit more like Eli and will take another year or two to snap out of his "I'm a Pro-Bowler! My arm is stronger the Elways! I'm untouchable!"

act but even Eli didn't act like such a ##### early on...he just was more the quiet dork.

 

[moleculo]

Pretty much how I layed it out last night:

link

Broncos' owner, Cutler's agent sound off on drama in Denver

Thomas George By Thomas George | NFL.com

Senior Columnist

Before Jay Cutler and Josh McDaniels entered their swamp of contentious confusion, the groundwork for a muddled fallout between the quarterback and the Denver Broncos had roots in the days following team owner Pat Bowlen's Dec. 30 firing of coach Mike Shanahan.

Bus Cook, Cutler's agent, said on Monday morning: "Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

Bowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

Little wonder Cutler and the Broncos are in total bewilderment.

This thing began unraveling quicker than most knew.

It is clear that Cutler bought into the coaching of Shanahan, and even more so, that of his former offensive coordinator, Jeremy Bates, who is now at USC. It appears Cutler believed keeping Bates aboard was the best of a rocky situation.

But on Jan. 12, Bowlen, as is his absolute right, hired former New England Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. McDaniels, as his absolute right, wanted to run his own offense with his own hand-picked offensive assistants.

Cutler's attitude at that point was, well, you might as well get rid of me, too.

"But I never requested a trade for Jay then," Cook said. "That is simply not true.

"Jay met with the coach early on and then told me everything was going to be OK. He said, 'We are going to work this out; we are on the same wavelength.' Everything was fine until Saturday two weeks ago. Jay called me and asked, 'Are they trying to trade me?' I told him, 'No, why would they try to do that?'"

That was when the story broke that the Broncos had discussions about trading Cutler in a deal that would bring then-New England quarterback and McDaniels mentee Matt Cassel to Denver. Cassel wound up being traded to the Kansas City Chiefs, but Cutler has said he lost trust in McDainiels because of the way the entire episode was handled.

"We told them the evening of our last meeting that Jay wanted to be a Bronco even before the meeting," Cook said. "Jay told them he understood about the coach's relationship with Matt Cassel. At no time was the coach critical of Jay. In fact, he told Jay soon after he got to Denver that Jay was the reason he came to Denver. So, why was he trying to trade him? All the guy had to do was say I dropped the ball, I have a special bond with Cassel, you are my guy. Jay never heard that. What he heard in the meeting was it could happen again."

An absolute mess here all around.

Bowlen realizes it. He was asked if he thought Cutler would remain a Bronco.

"To tell you the truth, I have no answer to that question," Bowlen said. "I would like to keep him here, obviously. But if you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."

Bowlen was asked if he has reservations about McDaniels, his new coach, or the way he handled this matter.

"Obviously, I am not going to criticize the head coach," Bowlen said. "I think he was trying to be a head coach. As I see it, Jay got upset about things and his feelings were hurt, and here we are. I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

Yes, McD fumbled everything and started this whole mess. But, Cutler needs to step up, be a leader, and stop being so sensitive about this whole mess. In the end, this boils down to McD not kissing Cutlers ### enough, coupled with Cutler being stubborn and not able to deal with adversity. It's apparent to me that Cutler needs to be coddled and have continuous positive reinforcement, which is something that McD isn't willing (capable?) of giving. And, like I said last night, if that's how the dynamics will work between these two personalities, an explosion was inevitable anyways. In all honesty, it's probably better for this to come to a head right now, as opposed to September.

 

[moleculo]

In the end, this boils down to McD not kissing Cutlers ### enough,

... handling business in a manner that gets the results the team desired by not kissing Cutlers ### enough..

right.

 

[massraider]

Yes, McD fumbled everything and started this whole mess. But, Cutler needs to step up, be a leader, and stop being so sensitive about this whole mess. In the end, this boils down to McD not kissing Cutlers ### enough, coupled with Cutler being stubborn and not able to deal with adversity. It's apparent to me that Cutler needs to be coddled and have continuous positive reinforcement, which is something that McD isn't willing (capable?) of giving. And, like I said last night, if that's how the dynamics will work between these two personalities, an explosion was inevitable anyways. In all honesty, it's probably better for this to come to a head right now, as opposed to September.

Why does Cutler need to do this? Oh, it'd be best for the team. But would that be best for Cutler?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Why does Cutler need to do this? Oh, it'd be best for the team. But would that be best for Cutler?

Cutler has the right to be immature and selfish to the detriment of the team.But then he shouldn't be surprised that he isn't untradeable. And the rest of us shouldn't be surprised when he racks up more individual stats than team wins.But they're his priorities. He can set them however he wants.

 

[moleculo]

In the end, this boils down to McD not kissing Cutlers ### enough,

... handling business in a manner that gets the results the team desired by not kissing Cutlers ### enough..

right.

You dont have to kiss anyone ### when you try to appropriately handle your employees in a manner that is best for the company.If you cant figure out what your young QB needs... from a boss... then you should not upset the cart until you do. The lack of comprehension is on McD not Jay.

This is all about handling employees and being a manager.

You must get the desired result for your company when you are in charge. Coming up way short of that is failure. Thats ALL on McD.

Just because you want to go to the liquor store... doesnt mean you drive down the sidewalk to get there.

whatever. It's obvious that McD has a management style that works well in NE, but not so well with Cutler. Apparently Cutler has to be handled differently than Tom Brady and Matt Cassel - fine. It's on McD for not figuring out how to cater to an overly sensitive 25 year old.

 

[ScottyFargo]

In the end, this boils down to McD not kissing Cutlers ### enough,

... handling business in a manner that gets the results the team desired by not kissing Cutlers ### enough..

right.

You dont have to kiss anyone ### when you try to appropriately handle your employees in a manner that is best for the company.If you cant figure out what your young QB needs... from a boss... then you should not upset the cart until you do. The lack of comprehension is on McD not Jay.

This is all about handling employees and being a manager.

You must get the desired result for your company when you are in charge. Coming up way short of that is failure. Thats ALL on McD.

Just because you want to go to the liquor store... doesnt mean you drive down the sidewalk to get there.

whatever. It's obvious that McD has a management style that works well in NE, but not so well with Cutler. Apparently Cutler has to be handled differently than Tom Brady and Matt Cassel - fine. It's on McD for not figuring out how to cater to an overly sensitive 25 year old.

What? How is it obvious it worked in NE? Was he secretly the head coach there? It looks more like he wasn't ready for HC job because he's handled things all wrong since he got there. It's not about catering to his QB, it's about managing. He hasn't managed, he's tried to brute force everything. That's the type of thing that young coaches who overestimate their coaching ability do.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

whatever. It's obvious that McD has a management style that works well in NE, but not so well with Cutler. Apparently Cutler has to be handled differently than Tom Brady and Matt Cassel - fine. It's on McD for not figuring out how to cater to an overly sensitive 25 year old.

What? How is it obvious it worked in NE? Was he secretly the head coach there? It looks more like he wasn't ready for HC job because he's handled things all wrong since he got there. It's not about catering to his QB, it's about managing. He hasn't managed, he's tried to brute force everything. That's the type of thing that young coaches who overestimate their coaching ability do.

McDaniels wasn't even OC the entire run. You know that. You're giving him way too much credit.

 

[Gr00vus]

Why does Cutler need to do this? Oh, it'd be best for the team. But would that be best for Cutler?

But they're his priorities. He can set them however he wants.

Why would remaining with a team obviously going in the wrong direction be a priority for Cutler? I can't blame him for doing whatever he can to get off that sinking ship right now.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

so why not just ship his butt to detroit for #1 this year and a #2 next year. Or for #20 and #33 this year.

As a bolt fan I do love seeing the only real competition in the division becoming a raider like train wreck right before our eyes.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

You can call Cutler a baby, a whiner, a horrible leader, a bad country club member but on the field he's a hell of QB that can make every throw, has throw for 4,500 yards and 25 TD's as a 2nd year starter that made the pro bowl (for a losing team) at the age of 25.

You just described Derek Anderson. Minus the baby, whiner, etc description. ProBowler. Phenomenal stats. Young. What's your point? Atleast Anderson won 10 games with his miserable defense.

So are you saying that Anderson = Cutler? I'm not saying anything of the sort. I'm saying the guy is tremendous talent, DA was/is not. He can't make all the throws, he made the Pro Bowl because Brady went for surgery I believe. Cutler is and will continue to be a pro-bowl caliber player while DA is a backup (go back and check I argued this point two years ago after his "pro bowl" season).Again, you clearly seem to be a guy who evaluates people solely by #'s and not by your eyes (or maybe you haven't watched him). Just because player a gets 25 tds and player b gets 25 tds does not mean A=B.Can you do me a favor and make a list of QB's in order of their talent/ability and where Cutler fits in? I'm curious.

Maybe you'd just rather I provide a list of Qs based on the #s they put since evidently that's clearly the type of guy I seem to be. I just told you I dont play fantasy football, Ive been in here discussing Jay Cutler's failure to produce a winning season for any team since HS, and you still interpreted that somehow that all that matters to me is the #s. That's good. Look, Im not saying Cutler is Anderson. You threw out the #s. I just commented on them. Shows you how much they actually mean to me. And you have no way of knowing just how successful Jay Cutler will be if/when he leaves Denver for a variety of reasons.

we are discussing NFL players and you're arguing Cutlers worth and abilities and that he's incapable of winning because he hasn't won since HS. I just want to see how reasonable or unreasonable your opinion is. If you are making all this noise and feel he's the 6th best QB then we are in the same ballpark but if you are arguing that he's the 19th best QB because his team was 8-8 it gives me a better perspective. I'm not looking for a fantasy rank but an NFL rank and it doesn't have to be exact. Factoring in ability, age, etc. mine would be ...BradyManningBreesCutlerRothlisbergerRiverswith the Cutler, Roth, Rivers lumped fairly close together. If I were building a new franchise I'd probably bump Cutler ahead of Brees.

Obviously you're a Denver fan. Cutler has had one great season, under an offensive mastermind for a coach. A coach that made very average running backs look super human.... and 2 very average QB's look great as well. Cutler is by far, no match for Brees. Brees = production and skill... Cutler = athletic and childish

 

[moleculo]

Its not "syle". Its a lack of leadership skills. He will always have has a team chock full of of 25 year olds.And when you are discussing possibly the most important employee he has, for him to proceed with out an inclination of how to handle him... is total failure from his leadership position.

out of 53 on the active roster and countless RB's on IR, how many pitch enough of a fit to the owner that he needs "special attention" when the coach was canned? How many made "emotional pleas" that their positional coach be retained? How many throw a tantrum, the likes of which are rarely seen in the NFL, at the mere mention of being traded?McD is simply paying the cards the only way he knows how - the way Belichick plays them in NE. It's tough guy attitude from the coach, it's no player is above the team, it's all for one, one for all. That type of style doesn't mesh with everyone - some people need more coddling, that much is obvious. Maybe McD could have handled this differently, but either Cutler can succeed in that type of environment or he can't. I know that Tom Brady can, and I know that Matt Cassel can. Look - I'm not holding McD blameless in this mess. He could have tries using tact - that would have gone a long ways. But, if McD yields now, the tough guy schtick is gone for ever. He lets Cutler go, and it sends a strong message to the other 52 guys that it's team first and there are no superstars. He caves in and continues the ###-kissing to which Cutler is accustomed, that flies out the window and opens the door to a team full of prima-donnas. If Cutler can swallow his pride and get over it, McD can take him to the next level. Ultimately, I think (hope) that's what will happen, time and victories will heal old wounds, and Cutler and McD both become better for it.

 

[moleculo]

whatever. It's obvious that McD has a management style that works well in NE, but not so well with Cutler. Apparently Cutler has to be handled differently than Tom Brady and Matt Cassel - fine. It's on McD for not figuring out how to cater to an overly sensitive 25 year old.

What? How is it obvious it worked in NE? Was he secretly the head coach there? It looks more like he wasn't ready for HC job because he's handled things all wrong since he got there. It's not about catering to his QB, it's about managing. He hasn't managed, he's tried to brute force everything. That's the type of thing that young coaches who overestimate their coaching ability do.

McDaniels wasn't even OC the entire run. You know that. You're giving him way too much credit.

my assumption is that McD borrows management style from Belichick. The style has certainly been successful.Has anything McD done been outside of what Belichick, or even Parcells, would have done?

 

[zdaddy]

whatever. It's obvious that McD has a management style that works well in NE, but not so well with Cutler. Apparently Cutler has to be handled differently than Tom Brady and Matt Cassel - fine. It's on McD for not figuring out how to cater to an overly sensitive 25 year old.

What? How is it obvious it worked in NE? Was he secretly the head coach there? It looks more like he wasn't ready for HC job because he's handled things all wrong since he got there. It's not about catering to his QB, it's about managing. He hasn't managed, he's tried to brute force everything. That's the type of thing that young coaches who overestimate their coaching ability do.

McDaniels wasn't even OC the entire run. You know that. You're giving him way too much credit.

my assumption is that McD borrows management style from Belichick. The style has certainly been successful.Has anything McD done been outside of what Belichick, or even Parcells, would have done?

Nope, and that is something that I have been thinking about.Look at Belichick and Parcells, look at the QB's they have used.

 

[Balance]

so why not just ship his butt to detroit for #1 this year and a #2 next year. Or for #20 and #33 this year. As a bolt fan I do love seeing the only real competition in the division becoming a raider like train wreck right before our eyes.

what makes you think detroit (or anyone else) would give up those picks for a losing QB?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

whatever. It's obvious that McD has a management style that works well in NE, but not so well with Cutler. Apparently Cutler has to be handled differently than Tom Brady and Matt Cassel - fine. It's on McD for not figuring out how to cater to an overly sensitive 25 year old.

What? How is it obvious it worked in NE? Was he secretly the head coach there? It looks more like he wasn't ready for HC job because he's handled things all wrong since he got there. It's not about catering to his QB, it's about managing. He hasn't managed, he's tried to brute force everything. That's the type of thing that young coaches who overestimate their coaching ability do.

McDaniels wasn't even OC the entire run. You know that. You're giving him way too much credit.

my assumption is that McD borrows management style from Belichick. The style has certainly been successful.Has anything McD done been outside of what Belichick, or even Parcells, would have done?

First of all, I have to say again: have the other 3 coordinators that left Belichick done squat? No. Two have been fired and the other would have been fired if the school didn't give him a ridiculous 10 year contract after one year and have too much pride to admit their mistake. So why would you "assume" that McDaniels would have any success as a head coach or with the same "style" as Belichick or Parcells? I think that's a poor assumption. It certainly may turn out to be true. He may be the second coming of Lombardi for all I know. But assuming that he will be is silly at this point. The other main difference is that Belichick and Parcells "developed" their styles after having some head coaching experience, both good and bad. McDaniels has no head coaching experience. None. So I don't understand why people are assuming that he knows what he's doing.

Look, I'm not picking on you at all. I do think Cutler is a immature baby and I do think Bus Cook is screwing him. But McDaniels has made just as much, or at least almost as much, of a mess of this situation as Jay and assuming that he is in the right or knows what he's doing or is the next Bill Belichick and will command the respect of his players is a really poor assumption in my mind.

 

[massraider]

Has anything McD done been outside of what Belichick, or even Parcells, would have done?

Parcells had special rules for LT, no question.

 

[moleculo]

whatever. It's obvious that McD has a management style that works well in NE, but not so well with Cutler. Apparently Cutler has to be handled differently than Tom Brady and Matt Cassel - fine. It's on McD for not figuring out how to cater to an overly sensitive 25 year old.

What? How is it obvious it worked in NE? Was he secretly the head coach there? It looks more like he wasn't ready for HC job because he's handled things all wrong since he got there. It's not about catering to his QB, it's about managing. He hasn't managed, he's tried to brute force everything. That's the type of thing that young coaches who overestimate their coaching ability do.

:X McDaniels wasn't even OC the entire run. You know that. You're giving him way too much credit.

my assumption is that McD borrows management style from Belichick. The style has certainly been successful.Has anything McD done been outside of what Belichick, or even Parcells, would have done?

First of all, I have to say again: have the other 3 coordinators that left Belichick done squat? No. Two have been fired and the other would have been fired if the school didn't give him a ridiculous 10 year contract after one year and have too much pride to admit their mistake. So why would you "assume" that McDaniels would have any success as a head coach or with the same "style" as Belichick or Parcells? I think that's a poor assumption. It certainly may turn out to be true. He may be the second coming of Lombardi for all I know. But assuming that he will be is silly at this point. The other main difference is that Belichick and Parcells "developed" their styles after having some head coaching experience, both good and bad. McDaniels has no head coaching experience. None. So I don't understand why people are assuming that he knows what he's doing.

Look, I'm not picking on you at all. I do think Cutler is a immature baby and I do think Bus Cook is screwing him. But McDaniels has made just as much, or at least almost as much, of a mess of this situation as Jay and assuming that he is in the right or knows what he's doing or is the next Bill Belichick and will command the respect of his players is a really poor assumption in my mind.

I agree with you on that part - McD hasn't earned the respect, and it's tough to command respect when you haven't earned it. But honestly, this episode began when Shanahan was fired, not when McD was hired. Cutler was pissy heading into the McD working relationship, and McD was the wrong guy, with the wrong background, using the wrong style to calm Cutler down. And from Pat Bowlens perspective, why should he hire a coach who will continue to coddle his star QB? As Bowlen said, "players play, coaches coach". Coaches are supposed to be above players in the hierarchy, and players should be able to adapt to different coaches.

Someone with Cutlers temperament will not succeed under an authoritative regime, ala Parcells/Belichick run. That's kind of my point - this is a relationship that, unless changes are made, is doomed to fail. In the long run, it's better to blow it up in March than September.

ETA: Construx> read this article - link - I think it ties your point in nicely with my claim that McD is trying to emulate Belichick, with terrible results.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

my assumption is that McD borrows management style from Belichick. The style has certainly been successful.Has anything McD done been outside of what Belichick, or even Parcells, would have done?

First of all, I have to say again: have the other 3 coordinators that left Belichick done squat? No. Two have been fired and the other would have been fired if the school didn't give him a ridiculous 10 year contract after one year and have too much pride to admit their mistake. So why would you "assume" that McDaniels would have any success as a head coach or with the same "style" as Belichick or Parcells? I think that's a poor assumption. It certainly may turn out to be true. He may be the second coming of Lombardi for all I know. But assuming that he will be is silly at this point. The other main difference is that Belichick and Parcells "developed" their styles after having some head coaching experience, both good and bad. McDaniels has no head coaching experience. None. So I don't understand why people are assuming that he knows what he's doing. Look, I'm not picking on you at all. I do think Cutler is a immature baby and I do think Bus Cook is screwing him. But McDaniels has made just as much, or at least almost as much, of a mess of this situation as Jay and assuming that he is in the right or knows what he's doing or is the next Bill Belichick and will command the respect of his players is a really poor assumption in my mind.

I agree with you on that part - McD hasn't earned the respect, and it's tough to command respect when you haven't earned it. But honestly, this episode began when Shanahan was fired, not when McD was hired. Cutler was pissy heading into the McD working relationship, and McD was the wrong guy, with the wrong background, using the wrong style to calm Cutler down. And from Pat Bowlens perspective, why should he hire a coach who will continue to coddle his star QB? As Bowlen said, "players play, coaches coach". Coaches are supposed to be above players in the hierarchy, and players should be able to adapt to different coaches.Someone with Cutlers temperament will not succeed under an authoritative regime, ala Parcells/Belichick run. That's kind of my point - this is a relationship that, unless changes are made, is doomed to fail. In the long run, it's better to blow it up in March than September.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote there. I think that Cutler was upset that Shanny was fired. Maybe for good reason. But McD handled this wrong. And honestly, if Bowlen is in agreement with the approach, then he's not as smart as I thought. Why would you hire a young, first time coach and then make him the bad guy? That's brutal. Bowlen should have been the bad guy. Say it's his decision. Deflect stuff from McDaniels. Not a good move if he was aware of everything. I was assuming that he told McDaniels to run the ship and was uninvolved. You would know better than me, but I thought he had always been a pretty hands off owner?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Good article, thanks! Didn't know that Bowlen announced that he was in charge and it was Cutler's team. Very, very strange turn of events. Truthfully, I had forgotten the Kosar thing was right when he went to CLE. I thought he had been there a couple of years.

Heck, maybe this is the plan. Bill told him to go out to DEN, screw things up royally and then after you get fired, go coach a different team and win 3 Super Bowls.

 

[moleculo]

my assumption is that McD borrows management style from Belichick. The style has certainly been successful.Has anything McD done been outside of what Belichick, or even Parcells, would have done?

First of all, I have to say again: have the other 3 coordinators that left Belichick done squat? No. Two have been fired and the other would have been fired if the school didn't give him a ridiculous 10 year contract after one year and have too much pride to admit their mistake. So why would you "assume" that McDaniels would have any success as a head coach or with the same "style" as Belichick or Parcells? I think that's a poor assumption. It certainly may turn out to be true. He may be the second coming of Lombardi for all I know. But assuming that he will be is silly at this point. The other main difference is that Belichick and Parcells "developed" their styles after having some head coaching experience, both good and bad. McDaniels has no head coaching experience. None. So I don't understand why people are assuming that he knows what he's doing. Look, I'm not picking on you at all. I do think Cutler is a immature baby and I do think Bus Cook is screwing him. But McDaniels has made just as much, or at least almost as much, of a mess of this situation as Jay and assuming that he is in the right or knows what he's doing or is the next Bill Belichick and will command the respect of his players is a really poor assumption in my mind.

I agree with you on that part - McD hasn't earned the respect, and it's tough to command respect when you haven't earned it. But honestly, this episode began when Shanahan was fired, not when McD was hired. Cutler was pissy heading into the McD working relationship, and McD was the wrong guy, with the wrong background, using the wrong style to calm Cutler down. And from Pat Bowlens perspective, why should he hire a coach who will continue to coddle his star QB? As Bowlen said, "players play, coaches coach". Coaches are supposed to be above players in the hierarchy, and players should be able to adapt to different coaches.Someone with Cutlers temperament will not succeed under an authoritative regime, ala Parcells/Belichick run. That's kind of my point - this is a relationship that, unless changes are made, is doomed to fail. In the long run, it's better to blow it up in March than September.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote there. I think that Cutler was upset that Shanny was fired. Maybe for good reason. But McD handled this wrong. And honestly, if Bowlen is in agreement with the approach, then he's not as smart as I thought. Why would you hire a young, first time coach and then make him the bad guy? That's brutal. Bowlen should have been the bad guy. Say it's his decision. Deflect stuff from McDaniels. Not a good move if he was aware of everything. I was assuming that he told McDaniels to run the ship and was uninvolved. You would know better than me, but I thought he had always been a pretty hands off owner?

he was, but apparently now wants to be more hands on. Apparently Shanahan was shown the door because he had too much control - not necessarily GM type control, but organizational control. Bowlen made note that "he wanted his team back", and he wanted to exert things the way he wanted things to be done. I think specifically, Shanahan refused to fire Slowik, the DC - that was probably the straw that broke the camels back.So now, Bowlen is caught in a transitional phase - he's been hands off for the past 10+ years, but is trying to be more active. Old habits die hard, right? He should have had a more active role here, no doubt. Bowlen is in a unique position where he can make both sides play nice, but from what I hear, Bowlen is PISSED, and his anger is directed almost exclusively at Cutler. Had Cutler returned some of Bowlens calls over the past couple of weeks, this might be playing out differently.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Interesting. Wonder how much of this is just "new" to Bowlen as an owner that has been hands off for so long and how much is sort of normal for "sensitive" players to get some extra attention?

 

[thecardiackid]

Obviously you're a Denver fan. Cutler has had one great season, under an offensive mastermind for a coach. A coach that made very average running backs look super human.... and 2 very average QB's look great as well. Cutler is by far, no match for Brees. Brees = production and skill... Cutler = athletic and childish

I've been following this thread, and resisting the temptation to jump in. Well, I'm a Browns fan - living in Denver. Listening to this drama non-stop on talk radio here. And if ANYONE hates the Donkeys, it's us older Browns fans. I'd take Cutler as a NFL GM over Brees + Peyton right now - b/c he's a QB freak and he's going to have 7+ more years compared to those guys. That's from a Boiler alum. A "franchise" QB is one huge puzzle piece - rarely can a team compete for a championship without one ('cept maybe BAL w/ that Defense). Big Ben is about the only one on that list who is close due to age - not raw skill wise IMO, but he's proven a lot and offers other assets (game mgmt, pocket presence, ability to scramble & make plays, etc.) Though, to be honest, it would really depend on the state of the rest of the team (i.e. how close the supporting cast was). Those who cannot come to terms with the FACT that Cutler is one of the best skilled young QBs in the NFL (recent antics aside), I think you need to take a step back and look at this a little more objectively. And WORST case even on that list, Cutler is what, a top 6 QB in the NFL? Does this really need to be argued? His talent is rare and evident. He can make EVERY throw on the field. His intangibles are admittedly a work in progress.Is he maybe too cocky and a coming off as a little immature here (at the ripe old age of 25)? Sure, I'll buy that. He basically dragged that team on his back last year, with about 20 different RBs, and almost got that trainwreck into the playoffs - with that HORRIBLE defense. Think about that. QBs and coaches get far too much praise when their team wins, and conversely too much blame when the team doesn't. Let's at the very least, try to separate Cutler the player (on the field) vs. his personal (off the field) attitude & business tactics.The NFL, much like FF dynasty, is all about identifying and acquiring YOUNG STUD talent (and w/ contracts that are org friendly). And enough about the "Cutler isn't a winner" b/c he played @ Vandy (little sisters of the poor vs. the friggin SEC), and stuck with one of the worst defenses in the NFL for most of his time in Denver. This is a TEAM game, and quite clearly, Cutler has not been the problem w/ the Broncos missing the playoffs. Joe Montana or John Elway wouldn't have been able to do much more to improve the '08 Broncos.Dude got jammed. So did the rest of the team in some regard - just not as up close and personal as Cutler. But, just because it IS part of the business - does not mean he HAS to like it. New coach, empty promises from ownership (allegedly), and secretly offered up as trade bait for a backup who knows the new coaches 'system' - then lied to by his new "boss". I think we all get that. The degree to which we resent him for looking out for his best interests (vs. his team) at this point is where the line is drawn here.McD has hopefully learned some ethical and human asset management lessons in his first month on the job, and maybe not to write checks w/ his mouth that his ### can't cash. And I'm sure Cutler wishes he'd done things differently as well. Unfortunately for Broncos fans, it looks like their franchise QB is on his way out of town. So in addition to a new coach, systems, FAs, and hopefully a new defense - now they need to once again find a real QB. Just ask a Browns, Bears or Lions fan what that feels like for 10 years.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Obviously you're a Denver fan. Cutler has had one great season, under an offensive mastermind for a coach. A coach that made very average running backs look super human.... and 2 very average QB's look great as well. Cutler is by far, no match for Brees. Brees = production and skill... Cutler = athletic and childish

I've been following this thread, and resisting the temptation to jump in. Well, I'm a Browns fan - living in Denver. Listening to this drama non-stop on talk radio here. And if ANYONE hates the Donkeys, it's us older Browns fans. I'd take Cutler as a NFL GM over Brees + Peyton right now - b/c he's a QB freak and he's going to have 7+ more years compared to those guys. That's from a Boiler alum. A "franchise" QB is one huge puzzle piece - rarely can a team compete for a championship without one ('cept maybe BAL w/ that Defense). Big Ben is about the only one on that list who is close due to age - not raw skill wise IMO, but he's proven a lot and offers other assets (game mgmt, pocket presence, ability to scramble & make plays, etc.) Though, to be honest, it would really depend on the state of the rest of the team (i.e. how close the supporting cast was). Those who cannot come to terms with the FACT that Cutler is one of the best skilled young QBs in the NFL (recent antics aside), I think you need to take a step back and look at this a little more objectively. And WORST case even on that list, Cutler is what, a top 6 QB in the NFL? Does this really need to be argued? His talent is rare and evident. He can make EVERY throw on the field. His intangibles are admittedly a work in progress.Is he maybe too cocky and a coming off as a little immature here (at the ripe old age of 25)? Sure, I'll buy that. He basically dragged that team on his back last year, with about 20 different RBs, and almost got that trainwreck into the playoffs - with that HORRIBLE defense. Think about that. QBs and coaches get far too much praise when their team wins, and conversely too much blame when the team doesn't. Let's at the very least, try to separate Cutler the player (on the field) vs. his personal (off the field) attitude & business tactics.The NFL, much like FF dynasty, is all about identifying and acquiring YOUNG STUD talent (and w/ contracts that are org friendly). And enough about the "Cutler isn't a winner" b/c he played @ Vandy (little sisters of the poor vs. the friggin SEC), and stuck with one of the worst defenses in the NFL for most of his time in Denver. This is a TEAM game, and quite clearly, Cutler has not been the problem w/ the Broncos missing the playoffs. Joe Montana or John Elway wouldn't have been able to do much more to improve the '08 Broncos.Dude got jammed. So did the rest of the team in some regard - just not as up close and personal as Cutler. But, just because it IS part of the business - does not mean he HAS to like it. New coach, empty promises from ownership (allegedly), and secretly offered up as trade bait for a backup who knows the new coaches 'system' - then lied to by his new "boss". I think we all get that. The degree to which we resent him for looking out for his best interests (vs. his team) at this point is where the line is drawn here.McD has hopefully learned some ethical and human asset management lessons in his first month on the job, and maybe not to write checks w/ his mouth that his ### can't cash. And I'm sure Cutler wishes he'd done things differently as well. Unfortunately for Broncos fans, it looks like their franchise QB is on his way out of town. So in addition to a new coach, systems, FAs, and hopefully a new defense - now they need to once again find a real QB. Just ask a Browns, Bears or Lions fan what that feels like for 10 years.

I think we'll see a whole different Jay Cutler under a new system. This kid has no where near the skill Brees has. Could he one day? Sure, he has some good tools. But don't anoint the kid. He could never match his '08' production again. Warner, Brees, Manning, Brady... They are untouchable at this point... There are unmeasurable skills they have that this kid lacks, biggest of all, class and integrity.... This kid better crack some books and pack a lunch if he wants to be regarded as such some day. This kid thinks he's already made it to the hall of fame. Can anyone here honestly say he is gonna make it? I've seem good performance for a season and a half. And besides, is this "Hall of fame" behavior?Really? He's that good huh?Being a superstar in Denver doesn't give him the right to act like a cobb.

 

[fatness]

ETA: Construx> read this article - link - I think it ties your point in nicely with my claim that McD is trying to emulate Belichick, with terrible results.

Thanks. That article is pretty blunt and to-the-point.

Less than two months into his tenure as a head coach, a stubborn kid who doesn’t understand the difference between the words “manage” and “dictate” believes he knows more about quarterbacking than the departed Mike Shanahan, who still believes Cutler will be a star in the NFL.

Because of it, McDaniels left his new team bereft at the most important position in the game.

The Broncos struggled last year not because they had no offense. They struggled because they had no defense. So McDaniels’ first move isn’t to shore up the defense. It’s to tear down the offense.

 

[Jeff Tefertiller]

Pat Kirwan at NFL.com had a decent take on the situation:

The football topic that swamped the media last year was Brett Favre's relationship with the Green Bay Packers. The star quarterback finally wound up in a New York Jets uniform after months of speculation.

This year, center stage belongs to Jay Cutler, quarterback of the Denver Broncos (for now). Favre and Cutler have the same agent (Bus Cook), by the way, and that just adds to the intrigue surrounding this year's soap opera.

However, Cutler's case is much more interesting than last year's situation with the aging Favre. While Favre had no more than one or two years left in him when he departed from Green Bay, Cutler will be 26 years old on April 29 and could play for another 10 years.

It is highly unusual that a player of Cutler's caliber is available for a trade in the NFL. Quarterbacks such as Chad Pennington, Kurt Warner and Drew Brees have switched teams in recent years and had success with their new clubs, but Cutler is younger than all of them. Therefore, let's take a look at his value, based on production, age and contract.

Before any team calls the Broncos to inquire about what it would take to acquire Cutler -- if Denver even really wants to trade him -- it must look at his production.

Cutler has numbers that seem to command a big price tag. Take a look at what he did in 2008 and consider that the Broncos' defense was ranked 29th overall and last in creating turnovers with just 13 takeaways. They were 30th in points allowed. Overall, they had 44 starts from rookies -- the second-highest total in the NFL behind a Kansas City Chiefs team that was in a full-blown youth movement. In contrast, the Pittsburgh Steelers had only one start by a rookie all season on their way to winning the Super Bowl.

Other interesting facts about Cutler:

» He guided the second-ranked offense in the NFL.

» He was No. 1 in fewest percentage of sacks, with 11 in 627 pass plays. That equates to one sack every 57 pass attempts.

» He was No. 3 in the NFL in third-down efficiency, the "money" down. The average NFL team converted 39.5 percent of its third downs; Cutler converted 47.5 percent.

» He was No. 3 in the AFC in yards per pass play (7.3).

» He threw for more yards than Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo and Ben Roethlisberger, to name a few.

» He had just two 100-yard rushing days from a running back all season: Peyton Hillis (129 against the Jets) and Michael Pittman (109 against the Jacksonville Jaguars).

» He had eight games of 300-plus passing yards (five of those at 350 or more), connecting for 15 touchdowns in those contests.

» Sure, he threw 18 interceptions, which is unacceptable, but his ratio of picks to attempts was 1:34, which tells a slightly different story. Last season, Brees had an interception every 37 pass attempts. Favre's ratio was 1:23, and Roethlisberger's was 1:31. Cutler's career ratio is 1:33.

» Only Jacksonville's David Garrard threw more passes in the fourth quarter of games than Cutler, who completed 100 of 167 passes for 1,212 yards and 11 touchdowns with just four interceptions.

Cutler is not a finished product, but when you consider his age, production (54 touchdown passes in 37 games) and contract, he has serious trade value. If Cutler is traded, the prorated signing bonus stays behind with Denver. Only his salary, workout bonus and likely-to-be-earned bonuses go to the new team.

So, for $20.567 million, a team can acquire Cutler for three years ($6.86 million annually) and not have to come up with big money until 2011, when the $12 million roster bonus is due. That's a good deal for any team. Plus, it could then use a franchise tag on Cutler (assuming there will be franchise tags in the next collective bargaining agreement).

This year's draft class also must be factored into Cutler's value because he is young enough to play as long as any rookie can. The three top-rated quarterbacks -- Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman -- in the draft all are juniors, which involves risk. All three had fewer career starts in college than Cutler has in three pro seasons (37).

It will take time for any of these guys to develop in the NFL and, as we all know, coaches and front offices don't have the luxury of time. If Stafford is potentially the first pick in the draft, then Cutler is worth more than him on sheer football ability. Factoring in his age and tradable contract, Cutler is worth a second first-round pick.

This notion was confirmed Monday night when a former NFL general manager said to me: "Cutler goes for two No. 1 picks and a player, or he doesn't go at all."

Ask yourself this: How many teams would be better right away with Cutler under center? Detroit, San Francisco, Buffalo, Washington, the Jets, Chicago, Tampa Bay, Minnesota, Seattle, Cleveland, Tennessee and St. Louis all have to entertain that question. As my retired GM friend said, "It only takes one team to realize it and a deal could get done."

Cutler hasn't helped himself with the way he has handled his situation in Denver. On the other hand, a new team might like that he's pressing the issue for a trade and will not even factor in what on the surface appears to be a maturity issue.

So, what would the Broncos do for a quarterback if Cutler is traded? That's an even bigger question and probably more difficult to answer. Do they turn to the draft picks? Do they insist on a quarterback in the trade as a short-term solution? Or do they step back and conclude that they just can't pull the trigger?

The kid from Santa Claus, Ind., would make a nice early Christmas present for some NFL team, but the Broncos may decide he's worth keeping under their tree.

 

[Donnybrook]

Here is a humorous quote from a mock draft I found.

Who knows what the Broncos are going to do here? Common sense says they'll find a cog for their new 3-4 scheme, but this is the same team that actually tried to downgrade its quarterback position from Jay Cutler to Matt Cassel. If I were friends with Josh McDaniels, I'd constantly offer him $20 bills for $100 bills of his. I'd be rich in no time!

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009.php

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

the win thing is such a tired argument....so Pennington, Favre, Cassel, Flacco, Garcia, Collins, Orton, Frerotte, Ryan and Delhomme are better QB's becuase their teams won more games?

No, it's the other way around. Their teams won more games because they are better QBs. I do think that Cutler is a better QB than most of those guys -- just not as good as many people seem to think he is. IMO, he's overrated because he has such great physical talent. But physical talent is really a small part of being a winning QB.

Exactly.

 

[Banger]

Obviously you're a Denver fan. Cutler has had one great season, under an offensive mastermind for a coach. A coach that made very average running backs look super human.... and 2 very average QB's look great as well. Cutler is by far, no match for Brees. Brees = production and skill... Cutler = athletic and childish

Its funny because I'm not a Denver fan at all. I'm actually a Charger fan but I have the ability to separate fandom from player evaluation. I don't own Cutler in any leagues either so I have no "side". I have just followed him closely since he was drafted and have thought and continue to think that he will be one of the best QB's in the league. I can't blame someone for liking Brees better because he's an excellent QB (and leader). If I were choosing a QB for the season or two I'd choose Brees but if I were building a team for the next decade I'd choose Cutler. Just my opinion but again we're debating among the top 4-5 qbs in the league.

 

[Banger]

Its not "syle". Its a lack of leadership skills. He will always have has a team chock full of of 25 year olds.And when you are discussing possibly the most important employee he has, for him to proceed with out an inclination of how to handle him... is total failure from his leadership position.

out of 53 on the active roster and countless RB's on IR, how many pitch enough of a fit to the owner that he needs "special attention" when the coach was canned? How many made "emotional pleas" that their positional coach be retained? How many throw a tantrum, the likes of which are rarely seen in the NFL, at the mere mention of being traded?McD is simply paying the cards the only way he knows how - the way Belichick plays them in NE. It's tough guy attitude from the coach, it's no player is above the team, it's all for one, one for all. That type of style doesn't mesh with everyone - some people need more coddling, that much is obvious. Maybe McD could have handled this differently, but either Cutler can succeed in that type of environment or he can't. I know that Tom Brady can, and I know that Matt Cassel can. Look - I'm not holding McD blameless in this mess. He could have tries using tact - that would have gone a long ways. But, if McD yields now, the tough guy schtick is gone for ever. He lets Cutler go, and it sends a strong message to the other 52 guys that it's team first and there are no superstars. He caves in and continues the ###-kissing to which Cutler is accustomed, that flies out the window and opens the door to a team full of prima-donnas. If Cutler can swallow his pride and get over it, McD can take him to the next level. Ultimately, I think (hope) that's what will happen, time and victories will heal old wounds, and Cutler and McD both become better for it.

This is what I don't get...Cutler is at the next level already. He's a probowl 25 td, 4500 yard qb at the age of 25 with the #2 offense...how much better is he gonna get? My biggest proble with all of this is McDaniels priorities. There's an old but true saying...if it aint broke don't fix it..MCD stepped into a situation where he had one of the top offenses in the league and one of the absolute worst defenses in the league so what does he do? Instead of absolutely blowing up the defense he messes with the one thing that actually worked and is looking to downgrade the most important position on the field.In my head the only way this makes sense is that this was Jays team and McD wants this to be his team so he's chopping off the head of the old leader. I can't think of any situation where a team has even thought of trading their young franchise QB, it just doesn't happen. Guys like Rivers, Roth, Mannings, etc they just don't get dealt and for good reason.

 

[Banger]

Obviously you're a Denver fan. Cutler has had one great season, under an offensive mastermind for a coach. A coach that made very average running backs look super human.... and 2 very average QB's look great as well. Cutler is by far, no match for Brees. Brees = production and skill... Cutler = athletic and childish

I've been following this thread, and resisting the temptation to jump in. Well, I'm a Browns fan - living in Denver. Listening to this drama non-stop on talk radio here. And if ANYONE hates the Donkeys, it's us older Browns fans. I'd take Cutler as a NFL GM over Brees + Peyton right now - b/c he's a QB freak and he's going to have 7+ more years compared to those guys. That's from a Boiler alum. A "franchise" QB is one huge puzzle piece - rarely can a team compete for a championship without one ('cept maybe BAL w/ that Defense). Big Ben is about the only one on that list who is close due to age - not raw skill wise IMO, but he's proven a lot and offers other assets (game mgmt, pocket presence, ability to scramble & make plays, etc.) Though, to be honest, it would really depend on the state of the rest of the team (i.e. how close the supporting cast was). Those who cannot come to terms with the FACT that Cutler is one of the best skilled young QBs in the NFL (recent antics aside), I think you need to take a step back and look at this a little more objectively. And WORST case even on that list, Cutler is what, a top 6 QB in the NFL? Does this really need to be argued? His talent is rare and evident. He can make EVERY throw on the field. His intangibles are admittedly a work in progress.Is he maybe too cocky and a coming off as a little immature here (at the ripe old age of 25)? Sure, I'll buy that. He basically dragged that team on his back last year, with about 20 different RBs, and almost got that trainwreck into the playoffs - with that HORRIBLE defense. Think about that. QBs and coaches get far too much praise when their team wins, and conversely too much blame when the team doesn't. Let's at the very least, try to separate Cutler the player (on the field) vs. his personal (off the field) attitude & business tactics.The NFL, much like FF dynasty, is all about identifying and acquiring YOUNG STUD talent (and w/ contracts that are org friendly). And enough about the "Cutler isn't a winner" b/c he played @ Vandy (little sisters of the poor vs. the friggin SEC), and stuck with one of the worst defenses in the NFL for most of his time in Denver. This is a TEAM game, and quite clearly, Cutler has not been the problem w/ the Broncos missing the playoffs. Joe Montana or John Elway wouldn't have been able to do much more to improve the '08 Broncos.Dude got jammed. So did the rest of the team in some regard - just not as up close and personal as Cutler. But, just because it IS part of the business - does not mean he HAS to like it. New coach, empty promises from ownership (allegedly), and secretly offered up as trade bait for a backup who knows the new coaches 'system' - then lied to by his new "boss". I think we all get that. The degree to which we resent him for looking out for his best interests (vs. his team) at this point is where the line is drawn here.McD has hopefully learned some ethical and human asset management lessons in his first month on the job, and maybe not to write checks w/ his mouth that his ### can't cash. And I'm sure Cutler wishes he'd done things differently as well. Unfortunately for Broncos fans, it looks like their franchise QB is on his way out of town. So in addition to a new coach, systems, FAs, and hopefully a new defense - now they need to once again find a real QB. Just ask a Browns, Bears or Lions fan what that feels like for 10 years.

Excellent, excellent post. That's the point I've been trying to get across but you did it more succintly. I just have a hard time understanding why others don't view it the same way.

 

[moleculo]

Its not "syle". Its a lack of leadership skills. He will always have has a team chock full of of 25 year olds.And when you are discussing possibly the most important employee he has, for him to proceed with out an inclination of how to handle him... is total failure from his leadership position.

out of 53 on the active roster and countless RB's on IR, how many pitch enough of a fit to the owner that he needs "special attention" when the coach was canned? How many made "emotional pleas" that their positional coach be retained? How many throw a tantrum, the likes of which are rarely seen in the NFL, at the mere mention of being traded?McD is simply paying the cards the only way he knows how - the way Belichick plays them in NE. It's tough guy attitude from the coach, it's no player is above the team, it's all for one, one for all. That type of style doesn't mesh with everyone - some people need more coddling, that much is obvious. Maybe McD could have handled this differently, but either Cutler can succeed in that type of environment or he can't. I know that Tom Brady can, and I know that Matt Cassel can. Look - I'm not holding McD blameless in this mess. He could have tries using tact - that would have gone a long ways. But, if McD yields now, the tough guy schtick is gone for ever. He lets Cutler go, and it sends a strong message to the other 52 guys that it's team first and there are no superstars. He caves in and continues the ###-kissing to which Cutler is accustomed, that flies out the window and opens the door to a team full of prima-donnas. If Cutler can swallow his pride and get over it, McD can take him to the next level. Ultimately, I think (hope) that's what will happen, time and victories will heal old wounds, and Cutler and McD both become better for it.

This is what I don't get...Cutler is at the next level already. He's a probowl 25 td, 4500 yard qb at the age of 25 with the #2 offense...how much better is he gonna get? My biggest proble with all of this is McDaniels priorities. There's an old but true saying...if it aint broke don't fix it..MCD stepped into a situation where he had one of the top offenses in the league and one of the absolute worst defenses in the league so what does he do? Instead of absolutely blowing up the defense he messes with the one thing that actually worked and is looking to downgrade the most important position on the field.In my head the only way this makes sense is that this was Jays team and McD wants this to be his team so he's chopping off the head of the old leader. I can't think of any situation where a team has even thought of trading their young franchise QB, it just doesn't happen. Guys like Rivers, Roth, Mannings, etc they just don't get dealt and for good reason.

right - logically, it doesn't make any sense at all. None. So, IMO the only conclusion we can draw is that the forces at play are not rational. This is about emotions and egos. This is about differing perceptions on the player/coach dynamic. This is about personalities that simply don't mix.

 

[Banger]

Its not "syle". Its a lack of leadership skills. He will always have has a team chock full of of 25 year olds.And when you are discussing possibly the most important employee he has, for him to proceed with out an inclination of how to handle him... is total failure from his leadership position.

out of 53 on the active roster and countless RB's on IR, how many pitch enough of a fit to the owner that he needs "special attention" when the coach was canned? How many made "emotional pleas" that their positional coach be retained? How many throw a tantrum, the likes of which are rarely seen in the NFL, at the mere mention of being traded?McD is simply paying the cards the only way he knows how - the way Belichick plays them in NE. It's tough guy attitude from the coach, it's no player is above the team, it's all for one, one for all. That type of style doesn't mesh with everyone - some people need more coddling, that much is obvious. Maybe McD could have handled this differently, but either Cutler can succeed in that type of environment or he can't. I know that Tom Brady can, and I know that Matt Cassel can. Look - I'm not holding McD blameless in this mess. He could have tries using tact - that would have gone a long ways. But, if McD yields now, the tough guy schtick is gone for ever. He lets Cutler go, and it sends a strong message to the other 52 guys that it's team first and there are no superstars. He caves in and continues the ###-kissing to which Cutler is accustomed, that flies out the window and opens the door to a team full of prima-donnas. If Cutler can swallow his pride and get over it, McD can take him to the next level. Ultimately, I think (hope) that's what will happen, time and victories will heal old wounds, and Cutler and McD both become better for it.

This is what I don't get...Cutler is at the next level already. He's a probowl 25 td, 4500 yard qb at the age of 25 with the #2 offense...how much better is he gonna get? My biggest proble with all of this is McDaniels priorities. There's an old but true saying...if it aint broke don't fix it..MCD stepped into a situation where he had one of the top offenses in the league and one of the absolute worst defenses in the league so what does he do? Instead of absolutely blowing up the defense he messes with the one thing that actually worked and is looking to downgrade the most important position on the field.In my head the only way this makes sense is that this was Jays team and McD wants this to be his team so he's chopping off the head of the old leader. I can't think of any situation where a team has even thought of trading their young franchise QB, it just doesn't happen. Guys like Rivers, Roth, Mannings, etc they just don't get dealt and for good reason.

right - logically, it doesn't make any sense at all. None. So, IMO the only conclusion we can draw is that the forces at play are not rational. This is about emotions and egos. This is about differing perceptions on the player/coach dynamic. This is about personalities that simply don't mix.

Agree 100%. Removing the teams leaders is one of the first thing Mangini did when he came to Jets.

 

[gianmarco]

The interesting thing to me is this:

Those on Cutler's "side" seem to acknowledge the fact that he hasn't behaved well either. They just seem to understand that he has a right to be upset if he was lied to and he has a right to look after his own interest just like Denver does. He doesn't lack blame in this, though.

Some of those on McDaniel's "side" actually think he's done the right thing and it's Cutler's fault for being whiny, not being a leader, and really not being that good.

It's this 2nd group, I just don't understand. How anyone can blame Cutler for this and put 0 blame on McDaniels is beyond me.

 

[Banger]

The interesting thing to me is this:Those on Cutler's "side" seem to acknowledge the fact that he hasn't behaved well either. They just seem to understand that he has a right to be upset if he was lied to and he has a right to look after his own interest just like Denver does. He doesn't lack blame in this, though.Some of those on McDaniel's "side" actually think he's done the right thing and it's Cutler's fault for being whiny, not being a leader, and really not being that good.It's this 2nd group, I just don't understand. How anyone can blame Cutler for this and put 0 blame on McDaniels is beyond me.

I think some view it as McD is the boss and he has the right to trade any player and doesn't have to answer or cowtow to anyone and that Cutler is an employee, he has a contract that pays him a lot money and regardless of what happens or how he's treated he just needs to suck it up and take it because he has a contract and that's what he's paid to do. I agree with some of that and disagree with some of that. I think McD has the right to do whatever he wants but I also think that Cutler has the right to be upset/annoyed and request a trade if he feels that he's not part of the long term plans of the team.

 

[moleculo]

The interesting thing to me is this:Those on Cutler's "side" seem to acknowledge the fact that he hasn't behaved well either. They just seem to understand that he has a right to be upset if he was lied to and he has a right to look after his own interest just like Denver does. He doesn't lack blame in this, though.Some of those on McDaniel's "side" actually think he's done the right thing and it's Cutler's fault for being whiny, not being a leader, and really not being that good.It's this 2nd group, I just don't understand. How anyone can blame Cutler for this and put 0 blame on McDaniels is beyond me.

I don't know that anyone is putting zero blame on McD. My posts might indicate that is my angle - it's not. to me, the "Blame McD" is obvious and covered ad nauseam, and there is no point into going deeper into that. What is more interesting is the culpability that Cutler shares, and so that's what I write about.

 

[gianmarco]

The Story from Cook

Jay Cutler's agent says his client's relationship with the Denver Broncos disintegrated after the firing of coach Mike Shanahan and a broken promise that Shanahan's offensive staff would largely remain intact, according to a report on NFL.com.

Bus Cook told the Web site that Cutler met with Broncos owner Pat Bowlen shortly after Shanahan was fired on Dec. 30 to express his concerns.

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff," Cook told NFL.com.

New Broncos coach Josh McDaniels overhauled the offensive staff after his arrival.

Bowlen, however, says he doesn't remember having the conversation with Cutler that Cook references.

"I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion," Bowlen told NFL.com.

Cook has formally requested a trade on Cutler's behalf, but contrary to reports, he says he didn't immediately demand that his client be traded.

"Jay met with the coach early on and then told me everything was going to be OK. He said, 'We are going to work this out; we are on the same wavelength.' Everything was fine until Saturday two weeks ago," Cook told NFL.com. "Jay called me and asked, 'Are they trying to trade me?' I told him, 'No, why would they try to do that?' "

The Broncos reportedly tried to unload Cutler in a three-way trade proposal that would have brought former Patriots quarterback Matt Cassel, whom McDaniels worked with in New England, to Denver. Cassel was eventually traded to the Kansas City Chiefs for a second-round pick.

As recently as the last meeting between Cutler and McDaniels, Cook said his client was ready to commit to the Broncos. However, he claims, the Broncos wouldn't commit to Cutler.

"We told them the evening of our last meeting that Jay wanted to be a Bronco even before the meeting," Cook told NFL.com. "Jay told them he understood about the coach's relationship with Matt Cassel. At no time was the coach critical of Jay. In fact, he told Jay soon after he got to Denver that Jay was the reason he came to Denver. So, why was he trying to trade him? All the guy had to do was say I dropped the ball, I have a special bond with Cassel, you are my guy. Jay never heard that. What he heard in the meeting was it could happen again."

Bowlen said he would like Cutler to remain with the Broncos, but the writing might be on the wall for his departure.

"I would like to keep him here, obviously. But if you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here," Bowlen told NFL.com.

 

[B-Deep]

people are really trying to say they'd take jay freaking cutler over peyton manning?

seriously?

come on

 

[TheFanatic]

Here's the problem right here:

As recently as the last meeting between Cutler and McDaniels, Cook said his client was ready to commit to the Broncos. However, he claims, the Broncos wouldn't commit to Cutler.

Cook and Cutler know that the Broncos were willing to trade for Cassell which would require the Broncos to shell out a very large signing bonus for the Denver QB. The trade does not go through. The agent smells blood and circles. If the BRoncos are willing to shell out a very large signing bonus for the Denver QB and the Denver QB is Cutler, they should renegotiate the deal for Cutler and give him that big signing bonus. Basically they went to management and said, "write us a big fat check and all of this goes away."Extortion. Cutler feels slighted a second time now. Once for being shopped and again for the team being willing to commit to Cassell and not to him.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Basically what I'm getting from the pro-Cutler camp is that McDaniel/Bronco Management dropped the ball by not realizing Cutler was a baby and going to extraordinary lengths to placate him so as not to hurt his feelings. Is that right?

 

[gianmarco]

Basically what I'm getting from the pro-Cutler camp is that McDaniel/Bronco Management dropped the ball by not realizing Cutler was a baby and going to extraordinary lengths to placate him so as not to hurt his feelings. Is that right?

No, that's not right and you know this. Extraordinary lengths not needed. For the sake of the Broncos, yes, McDaniels dropped the ball. Even if he's right.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Basically what I'm getting from the pro-Cutler camp is that McDaniel/Bronco Management dropped the ball by not realizing Cutler was a baby and going to extraordinary lengths to placate him so as not to hurt his feelings. Is that right?

No, that's not right and you know this. Extraordinary lengths not needed. For the sake of the Broncos, yes, McDaniels dropped the ball. Even if he's right.

Guess that depends on your definition of extraordinary. Does the owner/GM/coach have a responsibility to consult Culter before coaching changes? Before entertaining trade offers for him? Before making trade inquiries for a player who plays the same position as Cutler?Since I don't think that owners/GMs/coaches ordinarily consult with players before these moves, why should they have made an exception for Cutler?

 

[Moonlight_Graham]

ay Cutler-QB-Broncos Mar. 19 - 12:12 pm et

A "confidant" of Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum told the NY Daily News that he believes Tannenbaum has already phoned the Broncos about Jay Cutler.

The Denver Post reported Thursday morning that "at least four teams" have already called about Cutler. The Jets are likely among them. Look for more reports on Cutler during the Owners' Meetings over the weekend.

Source: New York Daily News

 

[massraider]

Basically what I'm getting from the pro-Cutler camp is that McDaniel/Bronco Management dropped the ball by not realizing Cutler was a baby and going to extraordinary lengths to placate him so as not to hurt his feelings. Is that right?

No, that's not right and you know this. Extraordinary lengths not needed. For the sake of the Broncos, yes, McDaniels dropped the ball. Even if he's right.

Guess that depends on your definition of extraordinary. Does the owner/GM/coach have a responsibility to consult Culter before coaching changes? Before entertaining trade offers for him? Before making trade inquiries for a player who plays the same position as Cutler?Since I don't think that owners/GMs/coaches ordinarily consult with players before these moves, why should they have made an exception for Cutler?

have you been reading a lot of Cutler supporters suggesting this?I think the major problem comes down to two different schools of thought. One school of thought is that all players are created equal, and listen to their coaches, and should thank the good lord for their opportunity to play a kids game for millions. Players should understand that it is a business, but should not dare to behave like businessmen themselves.The other school of thought is reality-based.

 

[moleculo]

Basically what I'm getting from the pro-Cutler camp is that McDaniel/Bronco Management dropped the ball by not realizing Cutler was a baby and going to extraordinary lengths to placate him so as not to hurt his feelings. Is that right?

No, that's not right and you know this. Extraordinary lengths not needed. For the sake of the Broncos, yes, McDaniels dropped the ball. Even if he's right.

Guess that depends on your definition of extraordinary. Does the owner/GM/coach have a responsibility to consult Culter before coaching changes? Before entertaining trade offers for him? Before making trade inquiries for a player who plays the same position as Cutler?Since I don't think that owners/GMs/coaches ordinarily consult with players before these moves, why should they have made an exception for Cutler?

have you been reading a lot of Cutler supporters suggesting this?I think the major problem comes down to two different schools of thought. One school of thought is that all players are created equal, and listen to their coaches, and should thank the good lord for their opportunity to play a kids game for millions. Players should understand that it is a business, but should not dare to behave like businessmen themselves.The other school of thought is reality-based.

"reality-based" = coaches and owners have to run all major decisions past 3rd year players?

 

[gump]

From ESPN---------

Cutler deal to be sealed this weekend?

A source has told the Denver Post that four teams have contacted the Denver Broncos in regards to Jay Cutler, and that number is expected to increase heading into the NFL owners meetings, to which Broncos owner Pat Bowlen, general manager Brian Xanders and head coach Josh McDaniels will travel on Saturday.

The rift between Cutler and the Broncos continues to widen, as an article on NFL.com presents conflicting reports as to whether or not Cutler met with Bowlen following the owner's decision to fire Mike Shanahan as coach. In Cutler's recollection, Bowlen told him that the offensive staff would remain, while Bowlen doesn't recall a meeting at all.

Regardless of whether that meeting took place or any promises were made, Cutler has been a thorn in the side of Broncos management for weeks now, and this weekend might be his last with the team. As for what the Broncos can expect in return, an unnamed NFL executive told the Post, "They should be able to pick a quarterback off a roster and get two No. 1's - one this year and one next year."

 

[massraider]

Basically what I'm getting from the pro-Cutler camp is that McDaniel/Bronco Management dropped the ball by not realizing Cutler was a baby and going to extraordinary lengths to placate him so as not to hurt his feelings. Is that right?

No, that's not right and you know this. Extraordinary lengths not needed. For the sake of the Broncos, yes, McDaniels dropped the ball. Even if he's right.

Guess that depends on your definition of extraordinary. Does the owner/GM/coach have a responsibility to consult Culter before coaching changes? Before entertaining trade offers for him? Before making trade inquiries for a player who plays the same position as Cutler?Since I don't think that owners/GMs/coaches ordinarily consult with players before these moves, why should they have made an exception for Cutler?

have you been reading a lot of Cutler supporters suggesting this?I think the major problem comes down to two different schools of thought. One school of thought is that all players are created equal, and listen to their coaches, and should thank the good lord for their opportunity to play a kids game for millions. Players should understand that it is a business, but should not dare to behave like businessmen themselves.

The other school of thought is reality-based.

"reality-based" = coaches and owners have to run all major decisions past 3rd year players?

Is this the part where we start assigning absurd opinions to one another?Reality-based:

Quarterbacks are different than 'players'. They are. Some players get treated better than others. Some players get coddled, some players get to skip parts of training camp. Some players are more important than other players. Some players are more important than coaches. This whole, "I am the head coach, you are the player" nonsense..........this isn't the 1950's, people. It just doesn't work like that anymore.

Reality-based:

If a player feels unwanted, he might not shake it off in a week, and happily get back to work. He might decide he doesn't want to be where he's not wanted. This kind of thing has happened before. Players know that if you want out, you need to make it known. Teams don't fulfill trade requests from talented young players that keep their mouth shut.

I keep reading that Cutler needs to just shut up and get to work, stop "being a baby". Why? Why does he have to do that? It's months before training camp, why does he need to get over it so fast? What benefit is that to Jay Cutler? If he thinks a trade is best for him, then he needs to make a stink.

It seems a bit like a double standard, doesn't it? The anti-Cutler camp thinks he should be a bit more understanding of the business of football, as it pertains to trades. But he cannot use the leverage he has as a player. When he reacts in a not-unprecedented manner, it's "Who does he think he is??" Frankly, that reaction is to be expected. Whether it's right or wrong doesn't matter, it was predictable. The Broncos should have known this was possible, and had a plan. They didn't.

Or maybe they do. McDaniels perhaps thinks he can make a Pro Bowl QB out of anyone, as it appears Belichick can do. And if so, good for him. It's a gutsy move.

I am sure that someone else has suggested it, but McDaniels should have just lied. Told Jay privately that teams called them, they didn't call teams, and they were not interested. Told Jay, you are my guy, and as the new coach, you are the most important person in the Broncos future (which, right now, he is). Blown smoke so far up his culo that it made jay cough. The reason I say that is because by making his stand with Jay so early on, McDaniels has cut short any honeymoon he was going to have in Denver. And if they trade Cutler, they better score some points when he is gone, and whoever McD replaces him with, better win games.

 

[gianmarco]

No, that's not right and you know this. Extraordinary lengths not needed.

For the sake of the Broncos, yes, McDaniels dropped the ball. Even if he's right.

Guess that depends on your definition of extraordinary. Does the owner/GM/coach have a responsibility to consult Culter before coaching changes? Before entertaining trade offers for him? Before making trade inquiries for a player who plays the same position as Cutler?Since I don't think that owners/GMs/coaches ordinarily consult with players before these moves, why should they have made an exception for Cutler?

have you been reading a lot of Cutler supporters suggesting this?I think the major problem comes down to two different schools of thought. One school of thought is that all players are created equal, and listen to their coaches, and should thank the good lord for their opportunity to play a kids game for millions. Players should understand that it is a business, but should not dare to behave like businessmen themselves.

The other school of thought is reality-based.

"reality-based" = coaches and owners have to run all major decisions past 3rd year players?

Is this the part where we start assigning absurd opinions to one another?Reality-based:

Quarterbacks are different than 'players'. They are. Some players get treated better than others. Some players get coddled, some players get to skip parts of training camp. Some players are more important than other players. Some players are more important than coaches. This whole, "I am the head coach, you are the player" nonsense..........this isn't the 1950's, people. It just doesn't work like that anymore.

Reality-based:

If a player feels unwanted, he might not shake it off in a week, and happily get back to work. He might decide he doesn't want to be where he's not wanted. This kind of thing has happened before. Players know that if you want out, you need to make it known. Teams don't fulfill trade requests from talented young players that keep their mouth shut.

I keep reading that Cutler needs to just shut up and get to work, stop "being a baby". Why? Why does he have to do that? It's months before training camp, why does he need to get over it so fast? What benefit is that to Jay Cutler? If he thinks a trade is best for him, then he needs to make a stink.

It seems a bit like a double standard, doesn't it? The anti-Cutler camp thinks he should be a bit more understanding of the business of football, as it pertains to trades. But he cannot use the leverage he has as a player. When he reacts in a not-unprecedented manner, it's "Who does he think he is??" Frankly, that reaction is to be expected. Whether it's right or wrong doesn't matter, it was predictable. The Broncos should have known this was possible, and had a plan. They didn't.

Or maybe they do. McDaniels perhaps thinks he can make a Pro Bowl QB out of anyone, as it appears Belichick can do. And if so, good for him. It's a gutsy move.

I am sure that someone else has suggested it, but McDaniels should have just lied. Told Jay privately that teams called them, they didn't call teams, and they were not interested. Told Jay, you are my guy, and as the new coach, you are the most important person in the Broncos future (which, right now, he is). Blown smoke so far up his culo that it made jay cough. The reason I say that is because by making his stand with Jay so early on, McDaniels has cut short any honeymoon he was going to have in Denver. And if they trade Cutler, they better score some points when he is gone, and whoever McD replaces him with, better win games.

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[moleculo]

reality>

link

Broncos' McDaniels won't pamper stars

Associated Press

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Josh McDaniels didn't get to bring his protege with him from New England to Denver. He sure brought the Patriots' management philosophies to the Mile High City, though.

Aside from the intricate Patriots-style offense he's installing in place of the West Coast system that's been here since the 1990s, the Broncos' new coach is instilling a tenet prized by his mentor, Bill Belichick, who, for the sake of team unity, never panders to superstars.

It helps explain why McDaniels didn't just hang up the phone when teams called about a three-way swap that would have sent his best player packing and brought Matt Cassel over from New England before he landed in Kansas City instead.

It also shows why McDaniels hasn't acquiesced in the resulting feud with recalcitrant quarterback Jay Cutler, who now wants a trade.

One player McDaniels did get to bring with him to Denver is free agent wide receiver Jabar Gaffney, who said McDaniels is just like Belichick in so many ways both on the football field and in the front office.

"Just how he handles business, the way he goes about treating everybody the same. Not showing favoritism to any one player who is supposed to be I guess a 'star,'" Gaffney said. "They don't care. They want a team. A team to go out there and win. Because the individuals won't win."

Gaffney saw those philosophies firsthand when McDaniels was New England's offensive coordinator the last three years.

Even Tom Brady, a three-time Super Bowl winner, caught plenty of guff from McDaniels, Gaffney recounted.

"Yeah, I think Tom got [chewed out] just about as much as everybody else did. So, that's great. Once you see your quarterback get talked to, then you know Coach is showing no favoritism," Gaffney said.

"Everybody has to show up and play."

Which is what the Broncos want Cutler, the face of their franchise, to do.

McDaniels is still waiting for Cutler to call him so they can try to work things out one last time. Cutler is in Nashville, Tenn., waiting for a phone call telling him the Broncos have heeded his request for a trade that he made Sunday through his agent, Bus Cook.

...

In New England, Brady is notorious for his work ethic. But Gaffney said it wasn't just that Brady led by example.



"Everybody is held accountable," Gaffney said. "Tom did his thing, but I mean, whether he would have been there or not, everybody was going to go out there and work hard. Same thing that Josh kind of said in our team meeting: 'Everybody that's here, let's go to work. We're a team. That deal [with Cutler] with get handled.'

"So, we'll love to have him here," Gaffney said. "I was looking forward to meeting him. That will happen all in its time."

Unless Cutler forces his way out of Denver.

or maybe what the Patriots, the envy of the rest of the NFL, don't do things in a way that's reality based?

 

[gianmarco]

reality>

link

Broncos' McDaniels won't pamper stars

Associated Press

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Josh McDaniels didn't get to bring his protege with him from New England to Denver. He sure brought the Patriots' management philosophies to the Mile High City, though.

Aside from the intricate Patriots-style offense he's installing in place of the West Coast system that's been here since the 1990s, the Broncos' new coach is instilling a tenet prized by his mentor, Bill Belichick, who, for the sake of team unity, never panders to superstars.

It helps explain why McDaniels didn't just hang up the phone when teams called about a three-way swap that would have sent his best player packing and brought Matt Cassel over from New England before he landed in Kansas City instead.

It also shows why McDaniels hasn't acquiesced in the resulting feud with recalcitrant quarterback Jay Cutler, who now wants a trade.

One player McDaniels did get to bring with him to Denver is free agent wide receiver Jabar Gaffney, who said McDaniels is just like Belichick in so many ways both on the football field and in the front office.

"Just how he handles business, the way he goes about treating everybody the same. Not showing favoritism to any one player who is supposed to be I guess a 'star,'" Gaffney said. "They don't care. They want a team. A team to go out there and win. Because the individuals won't win."

Gaffney saw those philosophies firsthand when McDaniels was New England's offensive coordinator the last three years.

Even Tom Brady, a three-time Super Bowl winner, caught plenty of guff from McDaniels, Gaffney recounted.

"Yeah, I think Tom got [chewed out] just about as much as everybody else did. So, that's great. Once you see your quarterback get talked to, then you know Coach is showing no favoritism," Gaffney said.

"Everybody has to show up and play."

Which is what the Broncos want Cutler, the face of their franchise, to do.

McDaniels is still waiting for Cutler to call him so they can try to work things out one last time. Cutler is in Nashville, Tenn., waiting for a phone call telling him the Broncos have heeded his request for a trade that he made Sunday through his agent, Bus Cook.

...

In New England, Brady is notorious for his work ethic. But Gaffney said it wasn't just that Brady led by example.



"Everybody is held accountable," Gaffney said. "Tom did his thing, but I mean, whether he would have been there or not, everybody was going to go out there and work hard. Same thing that Josh kind of said in our team meeting: 'Everybody that's here, let's go to work. We're a team. That deal [with Cutler] with get handled.'

"So, we'll love to have him here," Gaffney said. "I was looking forward to meeting him. That will happen all in its time."

Unless Cutler forces his way out of Denver.

or maybe what the Patriots, the envy of the rest of the NFL, don't do things in a way that's reality based?

McDaniels <> Belichick. At least not yet. Just like the rest of his disciples have failed to mimick the Patriots blueprint. He may think he does already and that's why he's acting this way. He'll most likely be mistaken and it's going to cost Broncos fans a long time finding the next QB. It's the same idea as trying to take democracy and instill it in a foreign country that can't handle it. Just because it's so successful here doesn't mean it will be everywhere else. And if you don't have a backup plan, then you just screwed the pooch for a long time coming.