And really, Spencer Ware started and had the majority of carries versus Baltimore. So Williams looked really good against 3 bad run defenses, but the Chiefs managed to go 1-2 over that 3 game period he was starting while going 11-2 with any other starting RB.
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Damien Williams true trade value (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I traded Damien Williams and DaeSean Hamilton last month for TY Hilton. I was heavy at RB with Barkley and Gordon (with K.Hunt once he gets off suspension and De'Andre Swift as a devy), and short at WR.
I had him on my trade block for awhile, but was not getting too many bites. I think the best that I was otherwise offered for him was Robert Foster.
I had him on my trade block for awhile, but was not getting too many bites. I think the best that I was otherwise offered for him was Robert Foster.
joey
Footballguy
just traded away Damian Williams in a 12 team non-ppr, Keep 13, 1QB/1RB/3Receiver/1Flex league
gave D Wiliams RB KC
got 2020 1st rounder (hard to say but probably mid-to-late-ish)
Don't have loads of keeper slots, I have 3 1st rounders this year (don't want any more, really), and I'm looking solid at RB with Gurley (fingers crossed), Gordon, Guice and Hunt. Wow that is suddenly nothing but question marks at RB. How quickly things can change, eh? Either way, I thought a 2020 1st for D Williams was good value.
gave D Wiliams RB KC
got 2020 1st rounder (hard to say but probably mid-to-late-ish)
Don't have loads of keeper slots, I have 3 1st rounders this year (don't want any more, really), and I'm looking solid at RB with Gurley (fingers crossed), Gordon, Guice and Hunt. Wow that is suddenly nothing but question marks at RB. How quickly things can change, eh? Either way, I thought a 2020 1st for D Williams was good value.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I like what you did there even if it doesn't help you this year.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Well then carlos hyde is the answer!mcd said:
A lot of people remember him for his injury plagued 21-43 record in 4 years with the 49ers, or more recently for his 2-6 record with the Jaguars, but he was nearly .500 with the browns before he was traded, going 2-3-1.
And he did this while not only averaging nearly 3.4 yards per carry, but a full 1.0 receptions per game at almost 6 yards a reception.
Obviously he didn't keep up that torrid pace, and averaged under 3.3 yards per carry as a literall Jag, but he added .5 receptions per game with the Jaguars and averaged a full yard per reception. That's right, 4 catches for 12 feet. Nearly 4 meters.
And hyde didn't play soft defenses, either. He played the colts, raiders, chargers ravens... wait those are the same teams damien williams played.
Anyways what i'm trying to say is that that's the kind of production and winning mentality that demands the starting role.
Hyde your running backs, Mr. Steal your job is coming to Kansas city, right?
Maybe we can just give williams credit for doing a good job replacing the 2017 rushing title holder as a backup to the backup while facing 5 playoff teams and he played at a really high level.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
I guess you missed the point? Did the 49ers become a better team when Hyde was sitting on the sidelines injured? Were they all of a sudden a winning team when Hyde sat out. KC was 11-2 with Hunt and Ware as starters. Thy were 1-2 with Williams. It's a really small sample size, and Williams put up nice numbers against bad rush defenses, but the team couldn't win. Maybe the opposing teams decided not to worry about Williams because they knew that he couldn't beat them if they focused entirely on Mahome. These are the type of players that get replaced sooner rather than later.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Yes. That's why it's good to own the chiefs running back. If you can run ok and catch passes then you can score a ton.
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
Once they draft Montgomery, none of this will matter.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
I would not be shocked by this at all. With talk that Montgomery will fall to the 3rd or 4th round... I could easily see the Cheifs picking him.
Montgomery's game plays a lot like Kareem Hunt from what I've seen. Both guys have great contact balance. Montgomery is really good, it's amazing how many times tacklers just like Tecmo bounce off of him when trying to tackle him by wrapping his hips. They don't even slow him down.
rschroeder1
Footballguy
There's a lot of language being tossed around about contracts to justify arguments. I thought it might be helpful to offer some clarifications in this regard, as I feel like a few of the arguments offered are a little slanted.
In the interest of transparency, I have Carlos Hyde and Darrel Williams on my end-of-season roster from 2018 for keeper considerations for 2019.
Williams became an RFA in '16 after 3 years of a UDFA contract with the Dolphins; he then signed a one year deal with them. As a UFA in '17 after his fourth season, he signed a one-year contract with the Chiefs. While his new contract is for up to two years, his dead cap hit for '20 is $500k - in other words, depending on situation, he could be a cut candidate after '19. So essentially it's a one-year deal with a team option for the second.
Hyde signed a three-year deal with Cleveland after the expiration of his 4-year rookie contract with SF; however, the contract had no dead cap money after year 1, making it essentially a one-year contract with two years of team options. I bring this up to object to the argument against Hyde in that he's on his fourth team in two years.
Both Hyde and Williams were not resigned by their inaugural teams after their first four years were up. Both were signed to essentially one-year contracts in their fifth year. The only major difference here is situation - the Browns had Chubb in the first year of a 4-year deal worth $7.3 million in total. They owed Hyde $9.7 for '19-'20, if he was not cut. The Jags needed an RB to finish up the season with Fournette hurt and could get a player with no cap responsibility for the future. There is no logic to using this trade as evidence of Hyde's lack of talent. He may actually be bad, but the trade is simple football economics. Had Williams been on the Browns with a similar contract, would the Browns and Jags not have done the exact same thing?
Likewise, holding the Jags' not resigning Hyde against him (four teams in two years) doesn't make sense. They traded for him specifically because of an injury to Fournette last year, not this year. Mission accomplished.
In their sixth year, both players are now on essentially one year deals; Williams with a $1.7 million cap hit, Hyde $2.7 million.
In summary, I find their contract histories and status to be fairly similar, besides Williams being an undrafted rookie versus Hyde's drafted status. I don't think their previous contracts or participation in trades tells us all that much.
In the interest of transparency, I have Carlos Hyde and Darrel Williams on my end-of-season roster from 2018 for keeper considerations for 2019.
Williams became an RFA in '16 after 3 years of a UDFA contract with the Dolphins; he then signed a one year deal with them. As a UFA in '17 after his fourth season, he signed a one-year contract with the Chiefs. While his new contract is for up to two years, his dead cap hit for '20 is $500k - in other words, depending on situation, he could be a cut candidate after '19. So essentially it's a one-year deal with a team option for the second.
Hyde signed a three-year deal with Cleveland after the expiration of his 4-year rookie contract with SF; however, the contract had no dead cap money after year 1, making it essentially a one-year contract with two years of team options. I bring this up to object to the argument against Hyde in that he's on his fourth team in two years.
Both Hyde and Williams were not resigned by their inaugural teams after their first four years were up. Both were signed to essentially one-year contracts in their fifth year. The only major difference here is situation - the Browns had Chubb in the first year of a 4-year deal worth $7.3 million in total. They owed Hyde $9.7 for '19-'20, if he was not cut. The Jags needed an RB to finish up the season with Fournette hurt and could get a player with no cap responsibility for the future. There is no logic to using this trade as evidence of Hyde's lack of talent. He may actually be bad, but the trade is simple football economics. Had Williams been on the Browns with a similar contract, would the Browns and Jags not have done the exact same thing?
Likewise, holding the Jags' not resigning Hyde against him (four teams in two years) doesn't make sense. They traded for him specifically because of an injury to Fournette last year, not this year. Mission accomplished.
In their sixth year, both players are now on essentially one year deals; Williams with a $1.7 million cap hit, Hyde $2.7 million.
In summary, I find their contract histories and status to be fairly similar, besides Williams being an undrafted rookie versus Hyde's drafted status. I don't think their previous contracts or participation in trades tells us all that much.
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wgoldsph
Footballguy
This would be the dream landing spot. My only problem is I've got 1.4 and any early kc back could go 1.1
beerbuff
Footballguy
Whomever the main back is in KC is fantasy gold. KC always has multiple backs on their rosters so Hyde doesn't scare me off of Williams. When Jamaal Charles went down West and Ware stepped up. The next year it was Ware, When Ware went down it was Hunt, when Hunt departed Ware was going to be the guy until he injured himself and Williams took over. My point is that whomever is the guy there will produce so any talk of Williams being a JAG needs to be taken with a grain of salt, he may be a JAG but he's a JAG in a great system but it is also a backfield where you should certainly handcuff. I have Williams as a somewhere between RB 6 and 9. So for trade value certainly a low first or a couple of multi year 2nds are fair.
dipandglide
Footballguy
I sent DW for 1.10 in a superflex, rb premium league. And sent him and a devy deluted 2.08 for Cam Akers (top devy prospect). I’m trying to sell for mid-late 1sts in other leagues but no one wants him.
Guys like Williams can help you win leagues. But you should be cashing in on these types in the offseason, IMO. Can he produce another great run? Yes. Is it likely? No.
Guys like Williams can help you win leagues. But you should be cashing in on these types in the offseason, IMO. Can he produce another great run? Yes. Is it likely? No.
People underestimate how athletic DW is. No, I can't explain away his average production in Miami, only to say that it appears to be a complete black hole for running backs in general. But coming out of college, we're talking about a guy who sported a 4.45 40 time(91st percentile) and a 95th percentile Speed score, and has always profiled as an above-average receiving back when given the opportunity.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
He’s sitting around RB21 in current ADPs according to mfl stats. That has about the right feel for him right now with so many unknowns going up against the possibility of being KCs starter.
bostonfred
Footballguy
kittenmittens
Footballguy
While I think his speed/size combo is good, his burst and agility metrics were pretty bad. I don't think he has good vision either.JoeJoe88 said:
He should be a good fit for primarily zone schemes and is a good pass catching back.
He's definitely good enough that he's going to produce in KC if given the opportunity, he's shown that.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
What pick in this year's class would you trade him for if your draft was tomorrow?
What pick would you trade for him?
What pick would you trade for him?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I’d have to say the sweet spot is somewhere in the 1.08-1.10 range and it would depend on the makeup of your teams as to whether you’re a buyer or seller.
I think it’s fairly safe to say the job is his for 2019 (Carlos Hyde truthers notwithstanding) - but whether he’s the longer term option is to be determined.
I had him in 4 dynasty leagues and traded him away in packages in 3 of them (happy with my returns in all three still). I’m very deep at RB in the league where I still have him but at this point I will probably consider him a starter for that team.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I feel like that's fair in most draft classes, but who is there in this year's crop that you'd be targeting at 1.8 to 1.10? This is a really bad looking class right now after Jacobs.
I would be willing to deal him for 1.04-1.07.
His long term outcome has an up arrow. He played very well when given the chance, was resigned to an extension, faces competition from two JAGs currently, and has seen the upper half of the draft unfold without having his team select and RB.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don’t think this is a great draft class but not as down on it as you imply. I see guys like Isabella, Montgomery, Samuels, Campbell, Hockenson, Brown, Fant and others in that range.
Now of course for 2019 Williams is much more valuable but his future is a bit cloudy.
If my team could win and needed a RB2, I’d pay a little more maybe even up to 1.05/1.06 but generally speaking I think my first range was pretty fair.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He only signed a very cheap two year extension. I think Hyde actually signed for more than Williams did.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Bump. What sorts of recent deals we seeing? Yes limited touches but 3-6catches a week in PPR has to be more valuable even with Hyde.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
please pump the brakes here. soon to lose T. Hill for a suspendido ( ya'll know it's coming). lost Hunt. have no other receiving option other than Kelce. a QB whos BOUND to regress bigtime this year, a coach who's on the bubble soon-2-be-fired when they fail to make the postseason or SB. Chiefs have the look of a dumpster fire in the making.
I'd be shocked if KC went better than 8-8 or 9-7.SHOCKED. DW will see 8 in the box all day long, all season long.
the Kool Aid Andy Reid glow has dulled in KC I think he's a dead man walking.like his last season in Philly.
franchise
I'd be shocked if KC went better than 8-8 or 9-7.SHOCKED. DW will see 8 in the box all day long, all season long.
the Kool Aid Andy Reid glow has dulled in KC I think he's a dead man walking.like his last season in Philly.
franchiseI think the majority of Chiefs fans would beg to differ.
Chiefs offense is going to be just fine as always, with or without Tyreek. And we don't even know how his situation is going to pan out. He could only get 6 games, or less.
As for DW's value, I own him in dynasty and was offered a late 1st for him. I declined. Especially in what I see as a relatively weak class, a dart throw late 1st doesn't move the needle enough for me to move a potential top-5 RB this season.
Really??? Teams are going to game plan and decide the best way to slow this offense is to to stop Damien Williams and dare Mahomes to beat them? I love it.
In late March, in an FFPC dynasty, I offered Damien Williams and Tyler Boyd for Aaron Jones and Chris Godwin. He rejected, but said he would trade Jones for Williams straight up, since he already had Hyde. I took it. I like Jones way more. I was a Hunt owner who put a modest bid on Williams after the suspension, so I don't mind selling someone I got for peanuts. If you're not a big Williams fan, then the Chiefs playoff run -- where Williams essentially looked like a cloned version of Hunt -- was a godsend.
