***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (2 Viewers)

[Banger]

* We had a chance to see running back David Wilson pass block and it wasn’t pretty. The good news is that Wilson picked up the correct man. The bad news is that he didn’t set his base and was bent backwards, just barely holding up his man (who didn’t look like he was charging at full speed anyway). If that play had been full speed, I guarantee you that Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end and the quarterback would have been hit.

This is what I'm afraid of in putting my chips on him this season. I know I'll be swarmed by the pro Wilson crowd but I just don't see the situation as cut and dried as some do largely due to coughlin being the head coach. He's a hard head and you need to do things the right way to earn trust and get on the field.

 

[ShaHBucks]

I still haven't heard a good reason for why anyone would think this would be a 50/50 split in carreis between Wilson and Brown, other than meaningless speculation from media outlets. Andre Brown is probably the most overrated player in redraft right now. Where he's being drafted is silly for a backup RB and I expect to see him pop up on a lot of waiver wires a couple of weeks into the season when it becomes apparent that Wilson is the guy.

Anyway, this thread has well and truly jumped the shark so whatever.

Man I don't get this confidence. I'm a Wilson owner, think he's extremely explosive, and has a ton of potential; but everything I see and hear points to a close to even split

If the Giants brought in another veteran at RB or drafted one then maybe I'd agree. However, they didn't. That shows that Coughlin trusts Wilson. I think everyone's in agreement that there's no way Brown could carry the load for an entire season, so if there was no trust in Wilson, he'd have to have another guy there. Brown will be used to backup Wilson and maybe get some goal line carries. I don't see any reason for anything else unless Wilson has any issues with missing blocks or fumbling during the season.

Nothing you said here makes me more confident. To me not adding another vet leads me to believe they trust Brown as much as they trust Wilson.

Brown has been injury prone for years. Wilson has not. Wilson was a 1st rd pick. Brown was not. I don't see how anyone can logically say that they trust Brown as much as they trust Wilson.

We will see if it's that simple to Caughlin or not.

Not sure what your point is.

Just because Brown wasn't a first round pick and has a injury history doesn't mean Coughlin won't trust him if he's healthy with the game on the line. Those are not "aha" factors that will change anyone who view Brown as a threat thinking. I was saying it like lets watch and see what Coughlin does because RBM is being just as logical as you are depending on how you want to look at it.

 

[3optic]

Wilson an RB 1 in return yardage leagues.. just sayin'

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I still haven't heard a good reason for why anyone would think this would be a 50/50 split in carreis between Wilson and Brown, other than meaningless speculation from media outlets. Andre Brown is probably the most overrated player in redraft right now. Where he's being drafted is silly for a backup RB and I expect to see him pop up on a lot of waiver wires a couple of weeks into the season when it becomes apparent that Wilson is the guy.

Anyway, this thread has well and truly jumped the shark so whatever.

Man I don't get this confidence. I'm a Wilson owner, think he's extremely explosive, and has a ton of potential; but everything I see and hear points to a close to even split

If the Giants brought in another veteran at RB or drafted one then maybe I'd agree. However, they didn't. That shows that Coughlin trusts Wilson. I think everyone's in agreement that there's no way Brown could carry the load for an entire season, so if there was no trust in Wilson, he'd have to have another guy there. Brown will be used to backup Wilson and maybe get some goal line carries. I don't see any reason for anything else unless Wilson has any issues with missing blocks or fumbling during the season.

Nothing you said here makes me more confident. To me not adding another vet leads me to believe they trust Brown as much as they trust Wilson.

Brown has been injury prone for years. Wilson has not. Wilson was a 1st rd pick. Brown was not. I don't see how anyone can logically say that they trust Brown as much as they trust Wilson.

We will see if it's that simple to Caughlin or not.

Not sure what your point is.

Just because Brown wasn't a first round pick and has a injury history doesn't mean Coughlin won't trust him if he's healthy with the game on the line. Those are not "aha" factors that will change anyone who view Brown as a threat thinking. I was saying it like lets watch and see what Coughlin does because RBM is being just as logical as you are depending on how you want to look at it.

Ok. I understand your point, though it's a bit tangential.

I'm not talking at all about who Coughlin will trust during the game, in-season, assuming everyone is healthy. I'm talking about who Coughlin will trust, over the course of a season, to be consistently available at RB and able to produce.

Through his entire pro career, Brown has not demonstrated that he can be counted on for an entire season. Nor has he been productive for any period of time, other than a portion of last season. Brown played in 4 games during 2010, garnering a total of 2 carries for -1 yards. He was injured all of 2011. He played 10 games last year, and was injured the rest.

How can anyone honestly think that Coughlin would look at that track record......and say "I'm set at RB, no need to get any insurance policy, because I've got Andre Brown back there"??

 

[RBM]

He actually looked at it and said "I'm ok at rb because I've got Andre Brown and David Wilson"

No way could he trust the workload in the hands of either by themselves, but as a tandem it's more feasible.

 

[monk]

* We had a chance to see running back David Wilson pass block and it wasn’t pretty. The good news is that Wilson picked up the correct man. The bad news is that he didn’t set his base and was bent backwards, just barely holding up his man (who didn’t look like he was charging at full speed anyway). If that play had been full speed, I guarantee you that Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end and the quarterback would have been hit.

This is what I'm afraid of in putting my chips on him this season. I know I'll be swarmed by the pro Wilson crowd but I just don't see the situation as cut and dried as some do largely due to coughlin being the head coach. He's a hard head and you need to do things the right way to earn trust and get on the field.

First off ... who is "we" and what makes "we" a qualified RB Pass Blocking expert ?

Second ... Wilson "barely held up his man" (But he did ...which is all he has to do)

Third ... "If the play had been at full speed Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end." I would think If the defender went full speed so would Wilson.

And Finally ... The Giants released their depth chart today and Wilson is the #1RB so I guess the people that matter didn't see it the same way that "We" did.

 

[Yenrub]

* We had a chance to see running back David Wilson pass block and it wasn’t pretty. The good news is that Wilson picked up the correct man. The bad news is that he didn’t set his base and was bent backwards, just barely holding up his man (who didn’t look like he was charging at full speed anyway). If that play had been full speed, I guarantee you that Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end and the quarterback would have been hit.

This is what I'm afraid of in putting my chips on him this season. I know I'll be swarmed by the pro Wilson crowd but I just don't see the situation as cut and dried as some do largely due to coughlin being the head coach. He's a hard head and you need to do things the right way to earn trust and get on the field.

First off ... who is "we" and what makes "we" a qualified RB Pass Blocking expert ?

Second ... Wilson "barely held up his man" (But he did ...which is all he has to do)

Third ... "If the play had been at full speed Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end." I would think If the defender went full speed so would Wilson.

And Finally ... The Giants released their depth chart today and Wilson is the #1RB so I guess the people that matter didn't see it the same way that "We" did.

Link to that depth chart please.

I was able to find this over at Giants.com

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Analyzing-the-Giants-Depth-Chart/1f853971-c9b4-401c-bf26-734a8e06d275

-- Running backs David Wilson and Andre Brown were bolded, meaning they are both listed as starters. We saw a similar thing all last year at right defensive end.

 

[Banger]

* We had a chance to see running back David Wilson pass block and it wasn’t pretty. The good news is that Wilson picked up the correct man. The bad news is that he didn’t set his base and was bent backwards, just barely holding up his man (who didn’t look like he was charging at full speed anyway). If that play had been full speed, I guarantee you that Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end and the quarterback would have been hit.

This is what I'm afraid of in putting my chips on him this season. I know I'll be swarmed by the pro Wilson crowd but I just don't see the situation as cut and dried as some do largely due to coughlin being the head coach. He's a hard head and you need to do things the right way to earn trust and get on the field.

First off ... who is "we" and what makes "we" a qualified RB Pass Blocking expert ?

Second ... Wilson "barely held up his man" (But he did ...which is all he has to do)

Third ... "If the play had been at full speed Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end." I would think If the defender went full speed so would Wilson.

And Finally ... The Giants released their depth chart today and Wilson is the #1RB so I guess the people that matter didn't see it the same way that "We" did.

quote from a beat writer....last I heard they were co-starters. Point is he had protection issues last year and looks like he's still having them. Everyone has bad days and it's early in camp but if he's going to be an every down back he's going to have to improve.

 

[monk]

* We had a chance to see running back David Wilson pass block and it wasn’t pretty. The good news is that Wilson picked up the correct man. The bad news is that he didn’t set his base and was bent backwards, just barely holding up his man (who didn’t look like he was charging at full speed anyway). If that play had been full speed, I guarantee you that Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end and the quarterback would have been hit.

This is what I'm afraid of in putting my chips on him this season. I know I'll be swarmed by the pro Wilson crowd but I just don't see the situation as cut and dried as some do largely due to coughlin being the head coach. He's a hard head and you need to do things the right way to earn trust and get on the field.

First off ... who is "we" and what makes "we" a qualified RB Pass Blocking expert ?

Second ... Wilson "barely held up his man" (But he did ...which is all he has to do)

Third ... "If the play had been at full speed Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end." I would think If the defender went full speed so would Wilson.

And Finally ... The Giants released their depth chart today and Wilson is the #1RB so I guess the people that matter didn't see it the same way that "We" did.

Link to that depth chart please.

I was able to find this over at Giants.com

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Analyzing-the-Giants-Depth-Chart/1f853971-c9b4-401c-bf26-734a8e06d275

-- Running backs David Wilson and Andre Brown were bolded, meaning they are both listed as starters. We saw a similar thing all last year at right defensive end.

Right but when you look at the actual depth chart ... thats not true ... Noone is bolded or higlighted or * - Wilson is listed as RB1 and Brown as RB2

http://www.giants.com/team/depth-chart.html

 

[monk]

* We had a chance to see running back David Wilson pass block and it wasn’t pretty. The good news is that Wilson picked up the correct man. The bad news is that he didn’t set his base and was bent backwards, just barely holding up his man (who didn’t look like he was charging at full speed anyway). If that play had been full speed, I guarantee you that Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end and the quarterback would have been hit.

This is what I'm afraid of in putting my chips on him this season. I know I'll be swarmed by the pro Wilson crowd but I just don't see the situation as cut and dried as some do largely due to coughlin being the head coach. He's a hard head and you need to do things the right way to earn trust and get on the field.

First off ... who is "we" and what makes "we" a qualified RB Pass Blocking expert ?

Second ... Wilson "barely held up his man" (But he did ...which is all he has to do)

Third ... "If the play had been at full speed Wilson would have been knocked on his rear end." I would think If the defender went full speed so would Wilson.

And Finally ... The Giants released their depth chart today and Wilson is the #1RB so I guess the people that matter didn't see it the same way that "We" did.

quote from a beat writer....last I heard they were co-starters. Point is he had protection issues last year and looks like he's still having them. Everyone has bad days and it's early in camp but if he's going to be an every down back he's going to have to improve.

Well from everything that I have read it sounds like Wilson and Brown both have protection issues.

Bottom line is this ...

Every Brown owner is going to make an unsubstantiated argument (based on FF Draft Value) that Brown is the back to own

Every Wilson owner is going to make an educated argument (based on talent, NFL draft position, performance, hype etc ...) that wilson is the back to own.

Every Giant fan who closely follows the Giants and most importantly does not have a dog in the fight (Myself) will tell you that it's Wilsons job to lose and there is no question about it

Anything can happen ...

Wilson could fumble, miss a block , drop a pass and that could change everything but ... so could Brown.

 

[Concept Coop]

Right but when you look at the actual depth chart ... thats not true ... Noone is bolded or higlighted or * - Wilson is listed as RB1 and Brown as RB2

http://www.giants.com/team/depth-chart.html

You're using the team's website - not the "actual depth chart".

 

[monk]

Right but when you look at the actual depth chart ... thats not true ... Noone is bolded or higlighted or * - Wilson is listed as RB1 and Brown as RB2

http://www.giants.com/team/depth-chart.html

You're using the team's website - not the "actual depth chart".

Link ? Can you send a link to the "actual depth chart" ?

I've looked at about 10 different links and they all show the same thing

 

[Leonidas]

Right but when you look at the actual depth chart ... thats not true ... Noone is bolded or higlighted or * - Wilson is listed as RB1 and Brown as RB2

http://www.giants.com/team/depth-chart.html

You're using the team's website - not the "actual depth chart".

Link ?

Pretty sure that was sarcasm

 

[monk]

Realize the Giants have told Wilson he won't be the kick returner. The news we're getting is that Wilson is trying to talk the coaches into letting him do both and that he can handle the load.

Link?

http://www.giants.com/team/depth-chart.html

 

[Concept Coop]

Link ? Can you send a link to the "actual depth chart" ?

I've looked at about 10 different links and they all show the same thing

We don't have the actual depth chart.

The team's website and its format doesn't allow for two players to be listed as a starter. That's all.

 

[Concept Coop]

Realize the Giants have told Wilson he won't be the kick returner. The news we're getting is that Wilson is trying to talk the coaches into letting him do both and that he can handle the load.

Link?

http://www.giants.com/team/depth-chart.html

That is not related to the comment I quoted, and is of very little value.

 

[Yenrub]

A little something from Andre Brown

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/08/giants_andre_brown.html

“It’ll be a lot different,” Brown said. “Coach (Jerald) Ingram has told us we have to increase our conditioning. He wants to make sure we’re ready to go on those 15-20 play drives. He doesn’t want to see us tapping our helmets ready to come out because if a guy is hot, he wants to keep the offense moving.”

 

[monk]

Realize the Giants have told Wilson he won't be the kick returner. The news we're getting is that Wilson is trying to talk the coaches into letting him do both and that he can handle the load.

Link?

http://www.giants.com/team/depth-chart.html

That is not related to the comment I quoted, and is of very little value.

That's a link to the "actual depth chart" which is the actual depth chart until you could prove otherwise.

Point is, Khy is wrong .... Wilson's listed as the 1st kick returner. Just trying to help ya out man ...

 

[monk]

A little something from Andre Brown

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/08/giants_andre_brown.html

“It’ll be a lot different,” Brown said. “Coach (Jerald) Ingram has told us we have to increase our conditioning. He wants to make sure we’re ready to go on those 15-20 play drives. He doesn’t want to see us tapping our helmets ready to come out because if a guy is hot, he wants to keep the offense moving.”

"Brown set lofty goals, predicting he would rush for 1,300 yards and score 22 touchdowns."

 

[Touchdown There]

Point is, Khy is wrong .... Wilson's listed as the 1st kick returner. Just trying to help ya out man ...

Let's have a point of clarity. A player labeled "kick returner" (as a generic label) normally returns both punts and kickoffs. David Wilson is not a "kick returner".

David Wilson is listed as the #1 kickoff returner. Most kickoffs are not returned since the NFL moved to the 35 yard line. Every kicker in the NFL can kick it out of the end zone. Every kicker can aim his kick away from David Wilson. How many kickoffs will David Wilson return this year? Not many. Past statistics on RB "kick returners" have no relevance.

 

[Concept Coop]

That's a link to the "actual depth chart" which is the actual depth chart until you could prove otherwise.

Point is, Khy is wrong .... Wilson's listed as the 1st kick returner. Just trying to help ya out man ...

The depth chart on the teams site is for marketing purposes. We'll know who the starting RB is when it comes from Coughlin's mouth. We'll know the split when we see it.

Khy is wrong because he seems to be misinformed (unless I am, in which case I'd love a link/source); not becuase of the teams website.

 

[monk]

That's a link to the "actual depth chart" which is the actual depth chart until you could prove otherwise.

Point is, Khy is wrong .... Wilson's listed as the 1st kick returner. Just trying to help ya out man ...

The depth chart on the teams site is for marketing purposes. We'll know who the starting RB is when it comes from Coughlin's mouth. We'll know the split when we see it.

Khy is wrong because he seems to be misinformed (unless I am, in which case I'd love a link/source); not becuase of the teams website.

Here you go this might help

http://www.giants.com/team/depth-chart.html

 

[Touchdown There]

Point is, Khy is wrong .... Wilson's listed as the 1st kick returner. Just trying to help ya out man ...

Let's have a point of clarity. A player labeled "kick returner" (as a generic label) normally returns both punts and kickoffs. David Wilson is not a "kick returner".

David Wilson is listed as the #1 kickoff returner. Most kickoffs are not returned since the NFL moved to the 35 yard line. Every kicker in the NFL can kick it out of the end zone. Every kicker can aim his kick away from David Wilson. How many kickoffs will David Wilson return this year? Not many. Past statistics on RB "kick returners" have no relevance.

Checking into the stats on this, 50% of all kickoffs are touchbacks since they were moved to the 35 yd line. 16% were touchbacks when kicked off from the 30 yard line.

What about the kickers mental decision to kick to David Wilson or to the Giant across the field from him? I also do not believe that David Wilson will be on the field as the kickoff returner for greater than half the kickoffs.

I know the anti-Wilson crowd in the Wilson bandwagon thread need to hang their hat on something, but they are grasping at straws.

 

[netnalp]

That's a link to the "actual depth chart" which is the actual depth chart until you could prove otherwise.

Point is, Khy is wrong .... Wilson's listed as the 1st kick returner. Just trying to help ya out man ...

The depth chart on the teams site is for marketing purposes. We'll know who the starting RB is when it comes from Coughlin's mouth. We'll know the split when we see it.

Khy is wrong because he seems to be misinformed (unless I am, in which case I'd love a link/source); not becuase of the teams website.

Could be Khy was going by quotes from the coaches after the OTAs when Wilson and the SP teams coach wanted him to still do KR but the other coaches had more of a "wait and see attitude" about it.

Hard to put much into the current depth chart, it wouldn't be a surprise if it changed by the end of camp.

 

[Concept Coop]

Could be Khy was going by quotes from the coaches after the OTAs when Wilson and the SP teams coach wanted him to still do KR but the other coaches had more of a "wait and see attitude" about it.


Hard to put much into the current depth chart, it wouldn't be a surprise if it changed by the end of camp.

Could very well be. I personally don't take that to mean what was suggested. But that is only my perception.

 

[Sabertooth]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

169 and 178 with two TDs in each game for his first two starts. Elite is on the table

Not its really not. Not even close.

Why isn't he a elite talent? He was better than David Wilson and earned his carries behind McCoy. His only issue is fumbles, just like AP early in his career.

Being better than Wilson doesn't make him elite. And nobody knows if he's better than Wilson; neither have done a thing yet. I'd love to hear how many rbs are elite talents. Like is it just AP and Bryce Brown? Or are there like 20-25 elite talents in the league right now?

Wilson is better than Barry Sanders. Where have you been?

C'mon, lets start the elite list.

1 AP

2 Bryce Brown

.....

Zac Stacy

 

[TheFanatic]

So basically, the coaches are going to keep telling these guys "We're going to go with the hot hand, no matter who is running the ball."

This is to keep Wilson hungrey and fighting for not only the job but every yard on the field. It also keeps Brown hungry despite the fact that he and everyone but Brown owners know that he's second string. The Brown owners will continue to argue otherwise and we will continue this debate after every luke warm coach speak quote that comes out about dual RB's and hot hands.

What should end the debate is week 3 of the preseason. If they split time during that game, I will say that this is a time share. If Wilson carries the vast majority of the first half, the Brown owners better be content with goal line duty if that. But for some of the more stubborn, even then, we'll probably have to go well into the season to settle the debate.

 

[Concept Coop]

This is to keep Wilson hungrey and fighting for not only the job but every yard on the field. It also keeps Brown hungry despite the fact that he and everyone but Brown owners know that he's second string. The Brown owners will continue to argue otherwise and we will continue this debate after every luke warm coach speak quote that comes out about dual RB's and hot hands.

I do think Wilson will eventually be named the starter, for the record. But this is what I don't get - the notion that the coaches and writers have an agenda and are only pretending like the starter isn't set in stone.

I'd take a 50/50 bet that Wilson is the starter. But give me much better odds than that, and I'll happily take Brown. There is a very real chance he wins the job.

I don't own Brown or Wilson, and from the outside looking in - it doesn't look to me like the Brown crowd is the group with irrational confidence.

 

[netnalp]

So basically, the coaches are going to keep telling these guys "We're going to go with the hot hand, no matter who is running the ball."

This is to keep Wilson hungrey and fighting for not only the job but every yard on the field. It also keeps Brown hungry despite the fact that he and everyone but Brown owners know that he's second string. The Brown owners will continue to argue otherwise and we will continue this debate after every luke warm coach speak quote that comes out about dual RB's and hot hands.

What should end the debate is week 3 of the preseason. If they split time during that game, I will say that this is a time share. If Wilson carries the vast majority of the first half, the Brown owners better be content with goal line duty if that. But for some of the more stubborn, even then, we'll probably have to go well into the season to settle the debate.

Pretty much. Like with Jacobs and Bradshaw. They alternated series and eventually Bradshaw won the official starting spot. So the question is can Wilson outperfomr Brown by enough of a margin to lock up the starting job. I think he can.

 

[Clifford]

The New York Daily News reiterates Andre Brown and David Wilson are expected to "split the rushing load this season."
This has been the expectation among Giants beat writers all spring and summer. Wilson is clearly the superior talent, but Brown has so far proven a more reliable ball carrier and pass protector. He's more fundamentally sound. Wilson is worth an early-round fantasy pick for upside drafters, but there is a real chance he will struggle to average more than 12-15 touches per game.

 

[Yenrub]

So basically, the coaches are going to keep telling these guys "We're going to go with the hot hand, no matter who is running the ball."

This is to keep Wilson hungrey and fighting for not only the job but every yard on the field. It also keeps Brown hungry despite the fact that he and everyone but Brown owners know that he's second string. The Brown owners will continue to argue otherwise and we will continue this debate after every luke warm coach speak quote that comes out about dual RB's and hot hands.

What should end the debate is week 3 of the preseason. If they split time during that game, I will say that this is a time share. If Wilson carries the vast majority of the first half, the Brown owners better be content with goal line duty if that. But for some of the more stubborn, even then, we'll probably have to go well into the season to settle the debate.

Believing that Brown will take away carries from Wilson and pointing out that coaches (including the head coach) have said that they plan on using both guys is totally different than Brown “is the starter” Which by the way I don’t recall seeing in this thread

 

[Koya]

Every Giant fan who closely follows the Giants and most importantly does not have a dog in the fight (Myself) will tell you that it's Wilsons job to lose and there is no question about it

Thanks for speaking for ALL Giants fans who watch the team closely. At least it's a guarantee that you are wrong in at least one point.

I have laid out my reasons for considerable doubt that he will be "the man" while expecting a solid, lots of yards with some long TD upside guy too many time to rehash. Especially for someone who speaks for all of us Giants fans.

And while its VERY early in the preseason, nothing has dispelled that prediction/guess. If anything it's being reinforced (still pass blocking questions, in the mix for returner, A Brown not hurt yet. Yet.)

 

[TwinTurbo]

I saw Andre Brown go in the 6th round of my FFPC draft with a similar ADP in Joes vs. Pros drafts. This is completely absurd.

It's clear some people think this will be an evenly split timeshare based on pre-season coach speak and last year's numbers. But here's what's actually going to happen. It will start as a 50/50 timeshare on the first drive of game 1 against the Cowboys. By the end of the game and at least one 50yd+ TD and backflip later, Wilson will be the unquestioned starter for the rest of the season.

Think of this like Doug Martin and Blount last year. That is how it's going to end up.

 

[ImTheScientist]

I saw Andre Brown go in the 6th round of my FFPC draft with a similar ADP in Joes vs. Pros drafts. This is completely absurd.

It's clear some people think this will be an evenly split timeshare based on pre-season coach speak and last year's numbers. But here's what's actually going to happen. It will start as a 50/50 timeshare on the first drive of game 1 against the Cowboys. By the end of the game and at least one 50yd+ TD and backflip later, Wilson will be the unquestioned starter for the rest of the season.

Think of this like Doug Martin and Blount last year. That is how it's going to end up.

Just to play devils advocate.... what if he fumbles on the opening drive?

 

[RBM]

Mark this down....my prediction for avg carries per game.

Wilson 16

Brown 8

Can everyone get on board with that?

 

[TwinTurbo]

I saw Andre Brown go in the 6th round of my FFPC draft with a similar ADP in Joes vs. Pros drafts. This is completely absurd.

It's clear some people think this will be an evenly split timeshare based on pre-season coach speak and last year's numbers. But here's what's actually going to happen. It will start as a 50/50 timeshare on the first drive of game 1 against the Cowboys. By the end of the game and at least one 50yd+ TD and backflip later, Wilson will be the unquestioned starter for the rest of the season.

Think of this like Doug Martin and Blount last year. That is how it's going to end up.

Just to play devils advocate.... what if he fumbles on the opening drive?

He already did that last year against the Cowboys. I don't expect the same result.

 

[Leonidas]

I saw Andre Brown go in the 6th round of my FFPC draft with a similar ADP in Joes vs. Pros drafts. This is completely absurd.

It's clear some people think this will be an evenly split timeshare based on pre-season coach speak and last year's numbers. But here's what's actually going to happen. It will start as a 50/50 timeshare on the first drive of game 1 against the Cowboys. By the end of the game and at least one 50yd+ TD and backflip later, Wilson will be the unquestioned starter for the rest of the season.

Think of this like Doug Martin and Blount last year. That is how it's going to end up.

Just to play devils advocate.... what if he fumbles on the opening drive?

Then he loses 1 or 2 points, depending on scoring format, and you will have to hope he runs an extra 10 or 20 yards on the next drive. Most likely/most formats, anyway.

Same as pretty much any other RB.

 

[JustinHawkins]

Mark this down....my prediction for avg carries per game.

Wilson 16

Brown 8

Can everyone get on board with that?

Wilson is the kind of dynamic runner that can make 16 carries per game a VERY nice total (like Spiller, Charles, etc.)

And honestly if Brown gets the goal line carries, he too could be flex worthy although I think he sees more like 10-15 carries per game where Wilson gets 15-20.

 

[Concept Coop]

Mark this down....my prediction for avg carries per game.

Wilson 16

Brown 8

Can everyone get on board with that?

I think 2:1 ratio for Wilson on the early down work, with Brown getting 3rd down and GL work, which would push the numbers a bit towards Brown and away from Wilson. Just my guess. I wouldn't be surprised if either guy got 20/game, or if it was a 50/50 split. We'll see.

 

[Koya]

Mark this down....my prediction for avg carries per game.

Wilson 16

Brown 8

Can everyone get on board with that?

Probably better to do this by touches, and I would expect closer to a 60-40 split. I'd guess it will be in Wilson's favor but that's hardly a guarantee, either for the season or especially game to game.

I believe the hot hand approach unless one of these guys just grabs the position. People forget how good Brown was , production wise if not sizzle, when he was getting the rock. But he gets hurt.

I've already gone over Wilson's issues.

So it's back to close to a 50-50, likely 60-40. But if you are looking at this objectively, even if Wilson is getting the 60-40, if he's not getting the rock at the goaline that takes him out of the RB1 discussion and well out of elite. Could surprise with someone tds but he needs to improve the pass protection to get more passing down touches for this to really happen.

If he has a really good season and goes for 1000-1400 yards and say 4-6 TDs, with Brown going for maybe 600-800 and 6-12 tds, both are viable but neither is going to win it all for you. Both have upside if they grab more touches (though Wilson needs some that will turn into tds) but both could give you a lot of 3-5 point fantasy weeks as well.

 

[LususV]

So basically, the coaches are going to keep telling these guys "We're going to go with the hot hand, no matter who is running the ball."

This is to keep Wilson hungrey and fighting for not only the job but every yard on the field. It also keeps Brown hungry despite the fact that he and everyone but Brown owners know that he's second string. The Brown owners will continue to argue otherwise and we will continue this debate after every luke warm coach speak quote that comes out about dual RB's and hot hands.

What should end the debate is week 3 of the preseason. If they split time during that game, I will say that this is a time share. If Wilson carries the vast majority of the first half, the Brown owners better be content with goal line duty if that. But for some of the more stubborn, even then, we'll probably have to go well into the season to settle the debate.

Pretty much. Like with Jacobs and Bradshaw. They alternated series and eventually Bradshaw won the official starting spot. So the question is can Wilson outperfomr Brown by enough of a margin to lock up the starting job. I think he can.

Exactly.

Coughlin's not an idiot. The plan could be a true 50/50 split. But if Andre Brown grinds to 4 y/c and Wilson busts out several 25+ yard runs, the 'time share' will be forgotten quickly.

Talent wins out. Buy Wilson while you still can.

 

[Koya]

So basically, the coaches are going to keep telling these guys "We're going to go with the hot hand, no matter who is running the ball."

This is to keep Wilson hungrey and fighting for not only the job but every yard on the field. It also keeps Brown hungry despite the fact that he and everyone but Brown owners know that he's second string. The Brown owners will continue to argue otherwise and we will continue this debate after every luke warm coach speak quote that comes out about dual RB's and hot hands.

What should end the debate is week 3 of the preseason. If they split time during that game, I will say that this is a time share. If Wilson carries the vast majority of the first half, the Brown owners better be content with goal line duty if that. But for some of the more stubborn, even then, we'll probably have to go well into the season to settle the debate.

Pretty much. Like with Jacobs and Bradshaw. They alternated series and eventually Bradshaw won the official starting spot. So the question is can Wilson outperfomr Brown by enough of a margin to lock up the starting job. I think he can.

Exactly.

Coughlin's not an idiot. The plan could be a true 50/50 split. But if Andre Brown grinds to 4 y/c and Wilson busts out several 25+ yard runs, the 'time share' will be forgotten quickly.

Talent wins out. Buy Wilson while you still can.

Talent wins out, but production is what FF is all about. And if talent shows but the question marks regarding role remain, then even a 70-30 split in Wilson's favor won't provide the upside people are drooling over, if that 30% represents third downs, the ability for more catches and short yardage / goal line attempts.

No one's disputing Wilson's talent (not that I have seen at least). It's a question of role. And it's a question. To ignore that is to be wishfully thinking and blinded by the upside - which is there, but my guess is it's a year away, assuming even then that Wilson can overcome his issues re: pass blocking and ball control as well.

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't think I am ignoring that role is a question mark. But I'm not in any leagues where we draft players during the year. His role is unknown. He's not an established starter. He's a question mark with pretty sizeable upside. Just like a lot of guys. Steven Jackson is a question mark. So is Eddie Lacy and Reggie Bush. We simply don't know the role they will play. Do you only draft players that are known quantities? That's a pretty short list.

 

[DropKick]

I don't think I am ignoring that role is a question mark. But I'm not in any leagues where we draft players during the year. His role is unknown. He's not an established starter. He's a question mark with pretty sizeable upside. Just like a lot of guys. Steven Jackson is a question mark. So is Eddie Lacy and Reggie Bush. We simply don't know the role they will play. Do you only draft players that are known quantities? That's a pretty short list.

Agreed. There are just a handful of teams in the league where a second back isn't an option.

 

[Koya]

I don't think I am ignoring that role is a question mark. But I'm not in any leagues where we draft players during the year. His role is unknown. He's not an established starter. He's a question mark with pretty sizeable upside. Just like a lot of guys. Steven Jackson is a question mark. So is Eddie Lacy and Reggie Bush. We simply don't know the role they will play. Do you only draft players that are known quantities? That's a pretty short list.

Not at all. It just appears there is a vocal segment (just how large I don't know) of folks who, imo, are overestimating the role he will play and/or overestimating the chances of Wilson reaching his admittedly very high upside, at least this year - with both of those inextricably linked.

In many cases you have a good idea of a role and then we need to "guess" on skill, production and upside. Trent Richardson last year - we knew when/if he was healthy he'd be the guy. So how good could he be? With Wilson, you have to consider the role question and the early indications that have to be red flags at the very least, because regardless how skilled he is, even if Wilson gets ALL of the carried between the 20s, if he also sees few 3rd downs and few or no close-in redzone looks, the production will not be nearly enough to justify some of the hype. Especially in a re-draft.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I don't think I am ignoring that role is a question mark. But I'm not in any leagues where we draft players during the year. His role is unknown. He's not an established starter. He's a question mark with pretty sizeable upside. Just like a lot of guys. Steven Jackson is a question mark. So is Eddie Lacy and Reggie Bush. We simply don't know the role they will play. Do you only draft players that are known quantities? That's a pretty short list.

Not at all. It just appears there is a vocal segment (just how large I don't know) of folks who, imo, are overestimating the role he will play and/or overestimating the chances of Wilson reaching his admittedly very high upside, at least this year - with both of those inextricably linked.

In many cases you have a good idea of a role and then we need to "guess" on skill, production and upside. Trent Richardson last year - we knew when/if he was healthy he'd be the guy. So how good could he be? With Wilson, you have to consider the role question and the early indications that have to be red flags at the very least, because regardless how skilled he is, even if Wilson gets ALL of the carried between the 20s, if he also sees few 3rd downs and few or no close-in redzone looks, the production will not be nearly enough to justify some of the hype. Especially in a re-draft.

Yeah, your comments seem completely reasonable to me. Wilson could easily be a guy who gets 900 yds rushing, 4-5 TDs, and maybe 100-200 yds receiving. There is nothing wrong with those numbers, but they are far below some of the optimistic projections of folks around these parts.

All that said, it didn't stop me from swapping Chris Johnson for Wilson recently in a keeper league.

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree that he is unknown. If we knew he would be "the guy" ala Richardson or Rice, we wouldn't be getting him as cheaply as we are now. Richardson didn't exactly light the world on fire last year and yet he is being taken in the top 7 or 8.

I think Lesean McCoy is a good comp for him. If he hits his upside, that's who he is. He hasn't shown me anything yet in his career to make me think he won't hit his upside. In dynasty he's got more value than redraft.

 

[We Tigers]

I guess whether the hype is too optimistic all depends on where he's really going. I was surprised to see him at RB16 in MFL real drafts, over Bush, Sproles, and to a lesser extent Miller and Gore. Aggregated from a bunch of sources on FantasyPros, he's RB19, which seems more reasonable.

 

[netnalp]

Will Wilson do the backflip celebration in Madden 25?

 

[RBM]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000225712/article/making-the-leap-no-3-ny-giants-rb-david-wilson

Making the Leap, No. 3: N.Y. Giants RB David Wilson

By Chris Wesseling

Around the League Writer

Published: Aug. 3, 2013 at 01:59 p.m. Updated: Aug. 3, 2013 at 02:47 p.m.

Around The League will profile the top 40 players we see Making the Leap in 2013. No. 3 on the list: New York Giants running back David Wilson.

Why Wilson is on the list

Outside of Adrian Peterson and C.J. Spiller, there might not be a more dynamic athlete at running back in the NFL. Wilson was the top performer at the 2012 NFL Scouting Combine in the vertical jump, broad jump, 20-yard shuttle and 60-yard shuttle. He once blazed a sub 4.30-second 40-yard dash on a fast track at Virginia Tech.

Without question, Wilson has the physical tools to excel as an NFL starter. The two videos below highlight the 2012 first-round draft pick's ability to accelerate from first gear to fifth as quickly as any back in the NFL. Note the explosive first step, smooth, natural cuts and breathtaking long speed. If the defense gives him a crease, he will exploit it -- often untouched to the end zone.

Wilson's game isn't pure speed. He packs more punch than would be expected from a 206-pound back, shedding tacklers by lowering his shoulder and churning his legs. After watching his film, it's no surprise that he led the nation in yards after contact with the Hokies in 2011. The Giants believe he has workhorse potential.

Though he's raw as a route runner and has been plagued by spotty hands, Wilson did show the ability to make big plays as a receiver such as the one in the video at the right.

The Giants weren't afraid to send him downfield to exploit mismatches. His speed and lateral agility will come in handy on screen plays if he learns how to patiently set up his blockers (We recommend watching Pierre Thomas' game tape as a learning tool.).

Relegated to the game's most dangerous kickoff returner through November, Wilson finally earned the coaching staff's trust late in the season. Taking on a change-of-pace role, Wilson averaged a gaudy 5.74 yards per carry with four offensive touchdowns in the season's final month. As of early August, he's listed as the co-starter along with Andre Brown on the Giants' unofficial depth chart.

Obstacles

Note the clock in the video on the right. Wilson fumbled in the middle of the first quarter of the season opener, immediately hitting coach Tom Coughlin's doghouse. Even with legitimate concerns over his pass protection and grasp of the playbook, Wilson was clearly headed for a significant offensive role before that miscue.

Wilson fumbled just one time all season, but this original football sin hardly can be called a fluke. He fumbled seven times and lost four in his final season at Virginia Tech. That partially explains the short leash and the coaching staff's unwillingness to give the rookie a shot at redemption.

Although Wilson did show a penchant for lowering his shoulder and grinding out tough yards when necessary, he also shared the bad habit of many inexperienced backs in breaking too many runs to the outside. Indecisive and perhaps lacking natural instincts, Wilson played out of control at times, leading to a boom-or-bust running style.

At this point, Brown is the more trusted runner between the tackles and in crucial short-yardage situations while Wilson is superior in space.

Now that the two backs are splitting the workload, Wilson will have to avoid mental mistakes, master the nuances of the position and show more polish as a runner and receiver to push past Brown for the lead-back role.

2013 Expectations

Wilson lobbied the coaching staff to stay on special teams, and he was listed as the first-team kickoff returner on the team's training-camp depth chart. If he wins the starting job on offense, Wilson will be the only feature back doing double time as a return ace. More likely, the Giants will go with the trendy "hot hand" approach in the backfield.

The good news is that Wilson has the kind of rare playmaking ability that will be hard to keep off the field if he can nail down the fundamentals of the position. Considering his edge in talent and Brown's inability to stay healthy for more than a few games at a time, all Wilson needs is a window of opportunity to put a stranglehold on Ahmad Bradshaw's role.

The Giants coaches are practically begging him to run away with the job. In which case, his ceiling is the most dynamic back in franchise history.

Even if Brown stays in the picture, Wilson has the potential to reach 1,000 yards from scrimmage on just a dozen touches per game.

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