Agree to disagree then. I just recall from Bountygate that there is mounds of evidence for coaching staffs to put extra emphasis on putting an opponent's playmaker on the bench since the result would help them win.
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***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jeff Pasquino
- Start date
I have not gone through the entire thread, so if I am echoing previous sentiments, good for the poster that brought them up. Last year when Wilson fumbled and literally broke down crying, many people viewed that as weakness. I tried to look at it as a positive, that he cared that much about his team, and would be better for it. Well, now I am not really sure. In fact (as a guy who bought up Wilson this offseason), I think he is just not mentally strong. Fumbling is literally looked at as a disease/sickness (i.e. fumblitis) in NFL circles, and implies it can be fixed (see Tiki). It also is something that some players just can't recover from (remember Banks, the QB from STL and Balt). At a minimum, it is a quick way to find yourself on the bench, and for someone whose job it is to run the ball, out of the league in short order. Unless a player has an injured hand/arm, there is no reason for someone not to be able to hold onto the ball unless it is mental (either technique or carelessness). I worry that this is too much pressure for a guy like this, and instead of rising up to the challenge, he is going to go into a shell and the failures will compound.
I agree with bdeep here - defensive players around the league are taught and practice stripping the ball from anyone who has the ball.
Honestly, if you had a guy who was fumble prone, the defense would probably rather have him in the game than on the bench - he can't fumble if he is not in the game.
the other team might rather have him in fumbling all game, but since they know he will be benched if he fumbles, the best they can hope to accomplish is get him on the bench and not making plays on the field.
B-Deep
Footballguy
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- New York Giants coach Tom Coughlin said David Wilson needs to demonstrate proper ball-carrying technique in practice this week if he wants to retain his starting job, calling the running back "a marked man."
Wilson fumbled twice in Sunday's season-opening loss in Dallas and was benched in the third quarter in favor of Da'Rel Scott. The Giants signed veteran running back Brandon Jacobs on Tuesday, but Coughlin made it clear that his preference is for Wilson to correct his fumbling issues so he can play against the Denver Broncos in Week 2.
"As I've said many times, we need [Wilson]," Coughlin said Wednesday morning. "He's necessary. He's going to have to overcome this issue.
"And he's a marked man now, so he's really going to have to overcome it."
Wilson fumbled twice in Sunday's season-opening loss in Dallas and was benched in the third quarter in favor of Da'Rel Scott. The Giants signed veteran running back Brandon Jacobs on Tuesday, but Coughlin made it clear that his preference is for Wilson to correct his fumbling issues so he can play against the Denver Broncos in Week 2.
"As I've said many times, we need [Wilson]," Coughlin said Wednesday morning. "He's necessary. He's going to have to overcome this issue.
"And he's a marked man now, so he's really going to have to overcome it."
Clifford
Footballguy
Ryan Mathews for Wilson rejected. Mainly because guy didn't like Mathews and noted he saw fewer snaps than Brown.
Sounds like, from Coughlin's latest, that Wilson really is on the verge of being a permanent fixture on the Giants bench if he can't prove he can play without fumbling. I'm sure the defense has been coached the strip and knock the ball out at every opportunity. I think if he fumbles we've seen the last of him as a fantasy prospect until he can get with a new team.
Sounds like, from Coughlin's latest, that Wilson really is on the verge of being a permanent fixture on the Giants bench if he can't prove he can play without fumbling. I'm sure the defense has been coached the strip and knock the ball out at every opportunity. I think if he fumbles we've seen the last of him as a fantasy prospect until he can get with a new team.
Khy
Footballguy
rizzler
Footballguy
B-Deep
Footballguy
yeah
the marked man means every other team ssmells blood, and they are gonna go for the strip
but yes, i also assume giant defenders have been told to go for the strip as wellm they need him to improve and practice is one wy to do it
nothing really new in that comment, i think we all assume if he coughs it up a bunch in practice coughlin is gonna kill him so the starter question will become irrelevant
the marked man means every other team ssmells blood, and they are gonna go for the strip
but yes, i also assume giant defenders have been told to go for the strip as wellm they need him to improve and practice is one wy to do it
nothing really new in that comment, i think we all assume if he coughs it up a bunch in practice coughlin is gonna kill him so the starter question will become irrelevant
Khy
Footballguy
That's weird my post got all sorts of messed up... what I tried to post was this.
These beat-writer translations are getting out of hand... they keep making these headlines that are just putting words in coaching staff's mouths and it's ridiculous.
Media Headlines: Tom Coughlin said David Wilson needs to demonstarate proper ball-carrying technique in practice this week if he wants to retain his starting job.
Tom Coughlin actually said: ""As I've said many times, we need [Wilson]," Coughlin said Wednesday morning. "He's necessary. He's going to have to overcome this issue. "And he's a marked man now, so he's really going to have to overcome it."
As some others pointed out... "marked man" doesn't mean he's marked for losing his job. It means he's marked for opposing tacklers.
Khy
Footballguy
Pretty much... Coughlin has yet to make a single statement about David Wilson's starter status. In fact he's literally told every reporter whose asked him about it to more or less shove off. This reporter heard "he's a marked man" and wrote "DAVID WILSON WILL NEED TO SHOW BALL SECURITY IMPROVEMENTS TO RETAIN HIS ROLE". As if that's some how a direct translation.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Maybe it ends up helping Wilson. If defenders are looking for the ball as he approaches and worried more about trying to strip it than to tackle him, it just increases his chances to break a long one. If he gets past the second wave of defenders, he's gone. The opposition better make sure he's stopped first before getting too fancy with the strip drill.
glock
"Don't grumble, give a whistle!"
Wilson is guilty of not seceding the yards to ball protection. He is a fighter. Coughlin needs to let him know that that HE knows that the yards will come without that- that getting both arms around the ball come first, and the yards will follow. Even if it means going down...
Khy
Footballguy
This is actually a really really good point and could end up proving to be very true. If you have LBs coming up on him staring at the ball and not his eyes and his feet he is going to make them look stupid. He could break a couple really nice runs if opposing defenses are playing him like this... I'd hope they'd be smarter than that, but they're probably not.
Nope, if Wilson fumbles against Denver he's a drop in all formats including dynasty. He'll never play another game in the NFL clearly.
Scott was really never a threat to Wilson anyway, the Giants have shown no trust in Scott as Wilson's backup. It's the main reason that the Giants had all these workouts scheduled long before the Dallas game anyway. They don't trust Scott or Cox in the backfield at all if Wilson were to go down or for some reason really doesn't work out.
Khy
Footballguy
Yeah, I'd imagine he's probably running more strip drills than you could ever think possible. Coughlin and Gilbride are probably giving some personal time with him as well. Again... they NEED him this isn't a case of them going "Come here kid, we like you we're gonna take you under out wing". Without David Wilson this teams playoff hopes are likely doomed this season. With him the Super Bowl is a realistic shot. This offense could be legitimately unstoppable if Wilson really does come on, with the way the passing game looked in the 2nd half vs Dallas. Adding an elite back to that offense would be brutal. Wilson is the key to this season and future seasons and Coughlin is well aware of the fact.
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B-Deep
Footballguy
that is not at all what i assume happened
i assume coughlin's comments in full were written about and that the reporter isd not a complete idiot or complete fiction writer
hell, if you think he made an assumption it would be off of this comment, not the marked man
"Yeah, in practice, he's going to have to have the ball in that position all the time, not just when he thinks he's running free and there's nobody around him," Coughlin said. "I want to see the ball in the right spot all the time.
"And frankly, there's nowhere else to go with this. I don't know what else to say about David Wilson. I realize it's a major issue for everybody, but there's a way to carry the ball and there's a way to protect the ball. Ball security is No. 1, and that's what he's going to have to demonstrate."
assuming the only things said were the quotes in the story, the question you should ask is when coughlin says he will "have to demonstrate" he will carry the ball the right way, what if he does not?
rizzler
Footballguy
Maybe it's just me - but the fact that this happened in Game #1 of the season,, I believe, gives him way more leeway.
I mean, Eli sucked. Lots of great players had bad fist weeks, fumbles, picks etc.
Shake the rust off and go...
If this were weelk 8, Id be way more worried
I mean, Eli sucked. Lots of great players had bad fist weeks, fumbles, picks etc.
Shake the rust off and go...
If this were weelk 8, Id be way more worried
B-Deep
Footballguy
he'll have his chance, he has to correct the problem
if he does everything is fine, if not he won't get the carries.
it's pretty black and white and as coughlin kind of said- there's not much else to say. he HAS to fix this, all we can do is speculate as to if he will.
Khy
Footballguy
I can't find this quote... I found these from this morning's presser.
The bolded is a big thing for me personally... as I felt this was a big mental thing after the game anyway. And being that it's not an issue they had in practice, camp or in preseason full pad action that points to that. Again:
- First game of the season
- Finally named starter
- Brown goes down and he's told the team is on his shoulders... don't mess up kid
- Primetime game, 50 million people watching
- Against the Dallas Cowboys the same team who started his doghouse campaign last year
A lot of mental stuff going on in that game.
zamboni
Footballguy
Actually, it's probably worse that he did it right off the bat since it's not like he had a bunch of great, fumble-free games and then coughed it up a few times.
It was same time, last year when the team was on national TV, and it seems to have put doubt in Coughlin's mind that Wilson can handle the big time.
Agree that Eli sucked too, but it's night and day. Eli has as much leeway as anyone in the game considering what he's accompished.
Khy
Footballguy
I have a feeling this is what you're going to see... it's going to be a tough game to win anyway. His explosiveness up's their chances to win. Besides it keeping Peyton off the field he's just a big threat every time he touches the ball. Granted he's a big threat to succeed and fail but my gut tells me that's how they'll approach this is just put him out there and run on the first few plays of the game to see how he plays out. If he fumbles early it's recoverable. If he doesn't he starts to build some confidence and maybe has that breakout game they want him to have.
Why are people freaking about this as if it's even relevant news? Da'Rel Scott was already going to be fantasy irrelevant whether Wilson succeed's or not.
rizzler
Footballguy
Im not saying Wilson has Eli;s leeway. at all.
the point is, game 1, even the best and mos experienced can suck. In that regard, youre early enough to correct the errors
rizzler
Footballguy
B-Deep
Footballguy
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000242627/article/tom-coughlin-ny-giants-david-wilson-a-marked-man
David Wilson's play is trying Tom Coughlin's patience. But perhaps not as much as reporters who peppered the New York Giants coach with questions about the running back.
Wednesday, a visibly frustrated Coughlin wouldn't commit to Wilson as the starter.
"We'll see," Coughlin told reporters. "We need him. He has to overcome this issue. He's a marked man."
The Super Bowl-winning coach wasn't going to commit to anything, but it's clear that Wilson will get another shot at the job.
"I can't say any more about David Wilson, except if I watch him in practice, and his technique doesn't improve, I'll let you know. I'll let you know," Coughlin said.
again, this is not news. He'll get a shot and he needs to improve,HOWEVER if he fumbles a lot in practice there'd be a chance he may never get that shot. I don't expect that to happen.
that's kind of common sense, if the coach says focus on ball security and thenyou respond by fumbling in practice it is not going to end well. I doubt this happens, but the message is clearly out there.
David Wilson's play is trying Tom Coughlin's patience. But perhaps not as much as reporters who peppered the New York Giants coach with questions about the running back.
Wednesday, a visibly frustrated Coughlin wouldn't commit to Wilson as the starter.
"We'll see," Coughlin told reporters. "We need him. He has to overcome this issue. He's a marked man."
The Super Bowl-winning coach wasn't going to commit to anything, but it's clear that Wilson will get another shot at the job.
"I can't say any more about David Wilson, except if I watch him in practice, and his technique doesn't improve, I'll let you know. I'll let you know," Coughlin said.
again, this is not news. He'll get a shot and he needs to improve,HOWEVER if he fumbles a lot in practice there'd be a chance he may never get that shot. I don't expect that to happen.
that's kind of common sense, if the coach says focus on ball security and thenyou respond by fumbling in practice it is not going to end well. I doubt this happens, but the message is clearly out there.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Longtucky Lemmings
Footballguy
With Andre Brown out. Da'Rel Scott possibly out or limited, Brandon Jacobs not anywhere near game-shape and the disaster that was his play this past week against Dallas....
We are going to learn a lot about David Wilson as a football player and person this coming Sunday against Denver.
Regardless of how it plays out, I'm looking forward to watching the drama to unfold....this is the stuff that makes being an NFL so fun!
B-Deep
Footballguy
yeah, i am curious about how he does too. i'd crumple under the pressure and end up urine soaked in the fetal position begging Coughlin not to make me take a handoff
"Tom i just don't think i can do it, please no more, PLEASE!"
but that and my complete lack of any athletic ability or drive to excel are probably the major reasons why I am not an NFL running back.
Well those and a bum knee.
"Tom i just don't think i can do it, please no more, PLEASE!"
but that and my complete lack of any athletic ability or drive to excel are probably the major reasons why I am not an NFL running back.
Well those and a bum knee.
Khy
Footballguy
It really is... Coughlin could have said to himself and the coaches and even Wilson 3 minutes after the game "David, you'll get the start again next week" and he still wouldn't tell the press on principal. Coughlin has been notorious for not telling the press things about team decisions and game plans, he's very much like Belichick in that regard. They're hard nosed old school coaches who don't believe the press has any right to any information about the team.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Time to dust off Mike Cox. (say it fast of course for full effect)
