***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (1 Viewer)

[Touchdown There]

David Wilson or Lamar miller?

It is a good problem to have if you have both.

If you have both but need to trade one for help in other spots, who do you trade?

It would take a haul for Lamar Miller, but I would trade him before Wilson.

 

[Concept Coop]

David Wilson or Lamar miller?

It is a good problem to have if you have both.

If you have both but need to trade one for help in other spots, who do you trade?

Miller doesn't have a threat for carries on his roster, and is the clear 3rd down back right now. The NYG offense should be elite, in terms of RB production, while I don't expect MIA to be. Pretty close, but I personally still lean Wilson. He might not be as steady week-to-week, but he'll score a lot of points in bunches. But, again, it's pretty close.

In dynasty formts, I think Wilson is a tier above Miller.

 

[TheFanatic]

Isn't there already a thread on Miller vs. Wilson? Can we go there to discuss this?

 

[Touchdown There]

Isn't there already a thread on Miller vs. Wilson? Can we go there to discuss this?

Agreed. This thread is for Andre Brown dynasty owners to poo in.

 

[Concept Coop]

Isn't there already a thread on Miller vs. Wilson? Can we go there to discuss this?

I wouldn't say Wilson is a lot faster. As for your point about balance - I'd agree. We'll see.

 

[JamesTheScot]

I know it is in this thread somewhere but I am not going to dig for it. The RB coach said before TC started that they felt comfortable with Brown on all downs but that they needed to see more improvement from Wilson to trust him on 3rd down. The way he explained it was that it is a process they go through with their RB over time. So why you guys are arguing about this confuses me. I think that was clear as can be. Now in the 1st preseason game that is exactly what they did. Wilson 1st and 2nd down Brown on 3rd down.

Please, don't argue with far more knowledgeable fans who don't have a horse in the race. It makes people like you and I look silly in the face of guys like Monk, whom just exude knowledge. He's said it himself.

They simply follow the team closer and know more than you or I. Or they just don't actually look at things nearly as objectively as they they think and overestimate their own knowledge while coming off likes Jets fans

Observations from a knowledgeable and logical Giants fan with no horse in the race ...

• David Wilson started and played the entire 1st quarter with the 1st team O against PIT 1st team D. - Andre Brown Did not have a touch in the 1st quarter
• David Wilson had a outstanding block while pass blocking in the 1st Q aginst the PIT 1st team D
• Andre Brown's 1st Touches came in the 2nd Quarter - Giants starting Oline still inthe game ... PIT had already removed many of their defensive starters
• Andre Brown had a horrible fumble and was chewed out by Coughlin as he ran of the field ... Brown was comforted by starting RB Wilson much the same way that veteran Ahmad Bradshaw comforted Wilson last year when he had his only career fumble.

Andre Brown was in as the 3rd down back on all three 3rd down situations in the 1st quarter

Yes he was ... that is another good observation. Brown was in on every 3rd down play in the 1st quarter resulting in 0 touches.Last season 3rd downs accounted for just under 20% of the Giants total plays from scrimmage.

I am not sure how many of those plays result in a RB touch but I would guess around 35%. And a large percenatge of those limited touches are short yardage plays ... 1- 3 yards.

So I dont think 3rd downs are going to make Brown that more valuable

That is a stupid thing to say!! Regardless if 3rd downs account for only 20% or not the more brown is on the field the more valuable he will be and the less valuable Wilson will be. Doesn't take the most knowledgeable fan to figure that out!!

Less or more valuable than what, exactly? More and less are comparative terms. You need a starting point for established value if you are claiming value is changing.

Yes. If Brown is in for 20% of the offensive plays, then Wilson won't be in for 100% of them. So Wilson at 80% isn't worth as much as Wilson getting 100%. Groundbreaking analysis there, I tell you! You really think you're scoring points against the pro-Wilson crowd by arguing that Wilson won't get 100% of the touches? You think the Wilson owners didn't already know that Brown was going to get some touches? Talking about stupid things to say!

What happened in this pre-season game changes nothing except that there's tangible proof that Wilson is getting better at pass pro and will be used in the passing game. This focus on 3rd down is a bit nonsensical. The coaches are going to watch the film and use that film study to tweak and adjust roles. But we really don't have any better an idea about how the touches will be distributed (%-wise) one way or the other based on this game.

Andre Brown is going to get some carries, contrary to what happened in this game. And Wilson is going to be used in the passing game, contrary to what some of his detractors have claimed. Whether we're talking a 50/50 split or a 65/35 split, or something in between, is anyone's guess.

I am simply responding to monk saying the fact brown is the 3rd down RB doesn't make him more valuable, it is simply not true like you stated. Pretty black and white if you are on the field more often you will most likely score more Points in FF, therefore making more valuable.

But more valuable than what? Than if Brown gets no plays? Than Wilson?

If those 3rd downs don't result in many touches, how valuable will Brown really be?

The issue is what share of the RB touches is Wilson going to get. We know that every touch Brown gets is one that Wilson won't. That's not a disputed issue. But no RB gets every touch for his team. So the question is whether Brown is going to be "taking away touches" that Wilson would otherwise get because Brown, comparatively, is better at something than Wilson is.

Monk's point is that if Brown is the 3rd down back to Wilson's being the early down back, there may not actually be that many lost touches. This example verifies that not every 3rd down play results in a touch for Brown. So while he will certainly get a few catches from being the 3rd down back, it may not really be that many if he is getting that role to primarily pass block.

And again, it isn't a static situation. Wilson is a young player that is going to make strides during the season. Even if Brown has an early lead for that role, there is nothing to guarantee he will hold it. It isn't like he's particularly impressive or skilled at either pass blocking or receiving. He's just kinda in that role by default because a 2nd year player hasn't proven to be a better blocker so far.

 

[Koya]

I appreciate all of the Giants posters in here who know quite a bit more about this than I do. Even better they do not always agree.

Just remember as a rule of thumb, those who remind you that they are more knowledgeable than others especially by ripping others whom may have a more balanced opinion as unknowledgeable, are likely more the latter than the former.

Fwiw, it's still very early but there hasn't been a significant shift here since Ahmad singed elsewhere. Wilson has the upside but must iron out some issues, blocking at the top of that list.

 

[Koya]

I appreciate all of the Giants posters in here who know quite a bit more about this than I do. Even better they do not always agree.

Just remember as a rule of thumb, those who remind you that they are more knowledgeable than others especially by ripping others whom may have a more balanced opinion as unknowledgeable, are likely more the latter than the former.

Fwiw, it's still very early but there hasn't been a significant shift here since Ahmad singed elsewhere. Wilson has the upside but must iron out some issues, blocking at the top of that list.

 

[Yenrub]

I know it is in this thread somewhere but I am not going to dig for it. The RB coach said before TC started that they felt comfortable with Brown on all downs but that they needed to see more improvement from Wilson to trust him on 3rd down. The way he explained it was that it is a process they go through with their RB over time. So why you guys are arguing about this confuses me. I think that was clear as can be. Now in the 1st preseason game that is exactly what they did. Wilson 1st and 2nd down Brown on 3rd down.

Please, don't argue with far more knowledgeable fans who don't have a horse in the race. It makes people like you and I look silly in the face of guys like Monk, whom just exude knowledge. He's said it himself.

They simply follow the team closer and know more than you or I. Or they just don't actually look at things nearly as objectively as they they think and overestimate their own knowledge while coming off likes Jets fans

Observations from a knowledgeable and logical Giants fan with no horse in the race ...

• David Wilson started and played the entire 1st quarter with the 1st team O against PIT 1st team D. - Andre Brown Did not have a touch in the 1st quarter
• David Wilson had a outstanding block while pass blocking in the 1st Q aginst the PIT 1st team D
• Andre Brown's 1st Touches came in the 2nd Quarter - Giants starting Oline still inthe game ... PIT had already removed many of their defensive starters
• Andre Brown had a horrible fumble and was chewed out by Coughlin as he ran of the field ... Brown was comforted by starting RB Wilson much the same way that veteran Ahmad Bradshaw comforted Wilson last year when he had his only career fumble.

Andre Brown was in as the 3rd down back on all three 3rd down situations in the 1st quarter

Yes he was ... that is another good observation. Brown was in on every 3rd down play in the 1st quarter resulting in 0 touches.Last season 3rd downs accounted for just under 20% of the Giants total plays from scrimmage.

I am not sure how many of those plays result in a RB touch but I would guess around 35%. And a large percenatge of those limited touches are short yardage plays ... 1- 3 yards.

So I dont think 3rd downs are going to make Brown that more valuable

That is a stupid thing to say!! Regardless if 3rd downs account for only 20% or not the more brown is on the field the more valuable he will be and the less valuable Wilson will be. Doesn't take the most knowledgeable fan to figure that out!!

Less or more valuable than what, exactly? More and less are comparative terms. You need a starting point for established value if you are claiming value is changing.

Yes. If Brown is in for 20% of the offensive plays, then Wilson won't be in for 100% of them. So Wilson at 80% isn't worth as much as Wilson getting 100%. Groundbreaking analysis there, I tell you! You really think you're scoring points against the pro-Wilson crowd by arguing that Wilson won't get 100% of the touches? You think the Wilson owners didn't already know that Brown was going to get some touches? Talking about stupid things to say!

What happened in this pre-season game changes nothing except that there's tangible proof that Wilson is getting better at pass pro and will be used in the passing game. This focus on 3rd down is a bit nonsensical. The coaches are going to watch the film and use that film study to tweak and adjust roles. But we really don't have any better an idea about how the touches will be distributed (%-wise) one way or the other based on this game.

Andre Brown is going to get some carries, contrary to what happened in this game. And Wilson is going to be used in the passing game, contrary to what some of his detractors have claimed. Whether we're talking a 50/50 split or a 65/35 split, or something in between, is anyone's guess.

I am simply responding to monk saying the fact brown is the 3rd down RB doesn't make him more valuable, it is simply not true like you stated. Pretty black and white if you are on the field more often you will most likely score more Points in FF, therefore making more valuable.

But more valuable than what? Than if Brown gets no plays? Than Wilson?

If those 3rd downs don't result in many touches, how valuable will Brown really be?

The issue is what share of the RB touches is Wilson going to get. We know that every touch Brown gets is one that Wilson won't. That's not a disputed issue. But no RB gets every touch for his team. So the question is whether Brown is going to be "taking away touches" that Wilson would otherwise get because Brown, comparatively, is better at something than Wilson is.

Monk's point is that if Brown is the 3rd down back to Wilson's being the early down back, there may not actually be that many lost touches. This example verifies that not every 3rd down play results in a touch for Brown. So while he will certainly get a few catches from being the 3rd down back, it may not really be that many if he is getting that role to primarily pass block.

And again, it isn't a static situation. Wilson is a young player that is going to make strides during the season. Even if Brown has an early lead for that role, there is nothing to guarantee he will hold it. It isn't like he's particularly impressive or skilled at either pass blocking or receiving. He's just kinda in that role by default because a 2nd year player hasn't proven to be a better blocker so far.

My guess is that the people coming in here to read this aren’t trying to decide between Wilson and Brown or who is worth more between Wilson or Brown.

What they are trying to decide is where to draft Wilson (or how much to pay for him in an auction) compared to other backs who are being drafted near Wilson’s ADP.

Knowing the guys role (as much as we can) may help someone make a decision on whether or not they take Wilson or one of the other RB’s who are on the board.

 

[monk]

I know it is in this thread somewhere but I am not going to dig for it. The RB coach said before TC started that they felt comfortable with Brown on all downs but that they needed to see more improvement from Wilson to trust him on 3rd down. The way he explained it was that it is a process they go through with their RB over time. So why you guys are arguing about this confuses me. I think that was clear as can be. Now in the 1st preseason game that is exactly what they did. Wilson 1st and 2nd down Brown on 3rd down.

Please, don't argue with far more knowledgeable fans who don't have a horse in the race. It makes people like you and I look silly in the face of guys like Monk, whom just exude knowledge. He's said it himself.

They simply follow the team closer and know more than you or I. Or they just don't actually look at things nearly as objectively as they they think and overestimate their own knowledge while coming off likes Jets fans

Observations from a knowledgeable and logical Giants fan with no horse in the race ...

• David Wilson started and played the entire 1st quarter with the 1st team O against PIT 1st team D. - Andre Brown Did not have a touch in the 1st quarter
• David Wilson had a outstanding block while pass blocking in the 1st Q aginst the PIT 1st team D
• Andre Brown's 1st Touches came in the 2nd Quarter - Giants starting Oline still inthe game ... PIT had already removed many of their defensive starters
• Andre Brown had a horrible fumble and was chewed out by Coughlin as he ran of the field ... Brown was comforted by starting RB Wilson much the same way that veteran Ahmad Bradshaw comforted Wilson last year when he had his only career fumble.

Andre Brown was in as the 3rd down back on all three 3rd down situations in the 1st quarter

Yes he was ... that is another good observation. Brown was in on every 3rd down play in the 1st quarter resulting in 0 touches.Last season 3rd downs accounted for just under 20% of the Giants total plays from scrimmage.

I am not sure how many of those plays result in a RB touch but I would guess around 35%. And a large percenatge of those limited touches are short yardage plays ... 1- 3 yards.

So I dont think 3rd downs are going to make Brown that more valuable

That is a stupid thing to say!! Regardless if 3rd downs account for only 20% or not the more brown is on the field the more valuable he will be and the less valuable Wilson will be. Doesn't take the most knowledgeable fan to figure that out!!

Well you sound very knowledgeable so surely you know that 80% > 20%

 

[monk]

I appreciate all of the Giants posters in here who know quite a bit more about this than I do. Even better they do not always agree.

Just remember as a rule of thumb, those who remind you that they are more knowledgeable than others especially by ripping others whom may have a more balanced opinion as unknowledgeable, are likely more the latter than the former.

Fwiw, it's still very early but there hasn't been a significant shift here since Ahmad singed elsewhere. Wilson has the upside but must iron out some issues, blocking at the top of that list.

And also Biabreakable, and most important, comprehend what you read ... Don't block out certain points just to try to make your own point.

For example when the Head Coach of the Giants says Wilson did a good job blocking... put more weight on that then when a random poster says "Wilson needs to iron out his blocking". Remember this is just an example and not an actual case.

 

[Art Vandalay]

This thread is full of optimistic Wilson owners or people with blinders on.

Pro-Wilson supporters just pick whatever side of the argument they like and often its not on -field production

• David Wilson started and played the entire 1st quarter with the 1st team O against PIT 1st team D. - Andre Brown Did not have a touch in the 1st quarter
• David Wilson had a outstanding block while pass blocking in the 1st Q aginst the PIT 1st team D
• Andre Brown's 1st Touches came in the 2nd Quarter - Giants starting Oline still inthe game ... PIT had already removed many of their defensive starters
• Andre Brown had a horrible fumble and was chewed out by Coughlin as he ran of the field ... Brown was comforted by starting RB Wilson much the same way that veteran Ahmad Bradshaw comforted Wilson last year when he had his only career fumble.

What did Wilson do with that entire first quarter....hmmmmmmmm, the answer you are looking for is nothing.

Brown playing the 3rd downs, and most likely getting GL are on field facts. They will look to give Wilson the early shot at 1st and 2nd down duty but if he doesn't produce and Brown does produce like last year I would say we are looking like player that should finish the season with around the same amount of points. One is just much more expensive in drafts at this point

 

[Touchdown There]

This thread is full of optimistic Wilson owners or people with blinders on.

Pro-Wilson supporters just pick whatever side of the argument they like and often its not on -field production

• David Wilson started and played the entire 1st quarter with the 1st team O against PIT 1st team D. - Andre Brown Did not have a touch in the 1st quarter
• David Wilson had a outstanding block while pass blocking in the 1st Q aginst the PIT 1st team D
• Andre Brown's 1st Touches came in the 2nd Quarter - Giants starting Oline still inthe game ... PIT had already removed many of their defensive starters
• Andre Brown had a horrible fumble and was chewed out by Coughlin as he ran of the field ... Brown was comforted by starting RB Wilson much the same way that veteran Ahmad Bradshaw comforted Wilson last year when he had his only career fumble.

What did Wilson do with that entire first quarter....hmmmmmmmm, the answer you are looking for is nothing.

Brown playing the 3rd downs, and most likely getting GL are on field facts. They will look to give Wilson the early shot at 1st and 2nd down duty but if he doesn't produce and Brown does produce like last year I would say we are looking like player that should finish the season with around the same amount of points. One is just much more expensive in drafts at this point

You started off with facts about preseason game 1, but somehow that pointed you to the conclusion in bold. Glad to know you are rooting against, and maybe even expect, David Wilson to fail.

 

[johnadams]

Isn't there already a thread on Miller vs. Wilson? Can we go there to discuss this?

Agreed. This thread is for Andre Brown dynasty owners to poo in.

 

[Koya]

All shtick aside, for those who do want more on point discussion about Wilson, Brown and the many aspects of the offense that might shed light on their respective productivity both from a football and fantasy standpoint, I'd recommend checking out the Giants thread. This one has the usual shark pool posturing, cognitive dissonance and just Tom foolery rather than much actual objective insight.

Otherwise this thread would have about 1/10 the pages because the objective viewpoint is, and seemingly always has been, Wilson had tons of upside but a few very key issues regarding certain skill sets (like blocking and ability to punch it in from short yardage vs other backs on the team) which would lead to a potential slightly limited role that could significantly alter his fantasy numbers.

It's early but NOTHING has dispelled nor added to those concerns.

 

[msudaisy26]

I think it is very possible that both guys are start-able in fantasy leagues. Eli Manning's only big yardage year was 2011, and the Giants have a recent history of having 2 backs that are fantasy relevant during the same season in recent history, Jacobs, Ward, Bradshaw, Barber. This could be a run first team with Wilson gaining 1200 to 1500 total yards and maybe 5 to 8 touchdowns. Willie Parker style. Brown could get maybe 700 to 900 total yards with 12+ touchdowns. Jerome Bettis like. I am pretty sure this is what the coaching staff wants.

 

[monk]

This thread is full of optimistic Wilson owners or people with blinders on.

Pro-Wilson supporters just pick whatever side of the argument they like and often its not on -field production

• David Wilson started and played the entire 1st quarter with the 1st team O against PIT 1st team D. - Andre Brown Did not have a touch in the 1st quarter
• David Wilson had a outstanding block while pass blocking in the 1st Q aginst the PIT 1st team D
• Andre Brown's 1st Touches came in the 2nd Quarter - Giants starting Oline still inthe game ... PIT had already removed many of their defensive starters
• Andre Brown had a horrible fumble and was chewed out by Coughlin as he ran of the field ... Brown was comforted by starting RB Wilson much the same way that veteran Ahmad Bradshaw comforted Wilson last year when he had his only career fumble.

What did Wilson do with that entire first quarter....hmmmmmmmm, the answer you are looking for is nothing. (Actually the answer you dont want to hear is ... he looked good blocking, ran hard against one of the best Run D's in the NFL and most importantly ... He didn't fumble.

Brown playing the 3rd downs, and most likely getting GL are on field facts. They will look to give Wilson the early shot at 1st and 2nd down duty but if he doesn't produce and Brown does produce like last year I would say we are looking like player that should finish the season with around the same amount of points. One is just much more expensive in drafts at this point

So it's a fact that Brown will most likely get GL carries. That's a hellova a fact ... and I thought facts were indisputable ?

 

[Biabreakable]

I appreciate all of the Giants posters in here who know quite a bit more about this than I do. Even better they do not always agree.

Just remember as a rule of thumb, those who remind you that they are more knowledgeable than others especially by ripping others whom may have a more balanced opinion as unknowledgeable, are likely more the latter than the former.

Fwiw, it's still very early but there hasn't been a significant shift here since Ahmad singed elsewhere. Wilson has the upside but must iron out some issues, blocking at the top of that list.

And also Biabreakable, and most important, comprehend what you read ... Don't block out certain points just to try to make your own point.

For example when the Head Coach of the Giants says Wilson did a good job blocking... put more weight on that then when a random poster says "Wilson needs to iron out his blocking". Remember this is just an example and not an actual case.

I always try to understand what I am reading/hearing.

What I referenced before was the RB coaches words not some random person.

Here is a more recent press conference with Jerald Ingram: http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/RB-Coach-Jerald-Ingram-on-offensive-backfield/13d58c03-b4db-4400-bc1e-01df417855ed

 

[Sabertooth]

Sheesh, can the season start already?

 

[Ilov80s]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

 

[TheFanatic]

I think the discussion needs to be tempered until the third preseason game when the starters typically go a half to truly see two things:

1) Wilson's blocking ability (so far we have had a small sample size)

2) Ratio of carries (again, small sample size)

The thing is we arguing over 70 carries each guy had last year and a handful in preseason game one. Other than that all we have is the stuff we see in between the lines (letting Bradshaw go, not bringing in a vet, not bringing in a backup who doesn't have injury concerns, depth charts, etc).

We've beaten this horse enough already. Maybe we should table the discussion until we have more tangible information and date?

 

[Concept Coop]

I think the discussion needs to be tempered until the third preseason game...

I agre; it should be a good indicator. I do think every fumble and missed block is a big deal, given the coach. But the 3rd game will be the most important.

 

[Grahamburn]

I think the discussion needs to be tempered until the third preseason game when the starters typically go a half to truly see two things:

1) Wilson's blocking ability (so far we have had a small sample size)

2) Ratio of carries (again, small sample size)

The thing is we arguing over 70 carries each guy had last year and a handful in preseason game one. Other than that all we have is the stuff we see in between the lines (letting Bradshaw go, not bringing in a vet, not bringing in a backup who doesn't have injury concerns, depth charts, etc).

We've beaten this horse enough already. Maybe we should table the discussion until we have more tangible information and date?

What's the fun in that?!

 

[ShaHBucks]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

Jahvid Best averaged over 5 yards a carry in a game where he got 10+ carries once in 22 starts. David Wilson averaged over 5 yards a carry in a game where he got 10+ carries twice, and he was a backup RB who only had 10+ carries in 3 games and never started a single one. Best's fantasy relevance relied solely on his pass catching ability, he was a terrible runner. I'm not seeing the Best/Wilson comparison at all.

 

[Koya]

I think the discussion needs to be tempered until the third preseason game when the starters typically go a half to truly see two things:

1) Wilson's blocking ability (so far we have had a small sample size)

2) Ratio of carries (again, small sample size)

The thing is we arguing over 70 carries each guy had last year and a handful in preseason game one. Other than that all we have is the stuff we see in between the lines (letting Bradshaw go, not bringing in a vet, not bringing in a backup who doesn't have injury concerns, depth charts, etc).

We've beaten this horse enough already. Maybe we should table the discussion until we have more tangible information and date?

Your reasoned and measured response has no place in this thread full of hyperbole, self engrandizement (sp?) and agendas to forward.

 

[Eminence]

I just don't think Wilson can be the guy. If you're playing in Dynasty and have him as your RB3, that's great. But no way am I relying on him as my RB1 / RB2.

 

[ShaHBucks]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

Jahvid Best averaged over 5 yards a carry in a game where he got 10+ carries once in 22 starts. David Wilson averaged over 5 yards a carry in a game where he got 10+ carries twice, and he was a backup RB who only had 10+ carries in 3 games and never started a single one. Best's fantasy relevance relied solely on his pass catching ability, he was a terrible runner. I'm not seeing the Best/Wilson comparison at all.

I've went at lengths at why his ypc are skewed by a few big runs with his small sample size. I was just answering a question, not really in for a good debate.

 

[Touchdown There]

I just don't think Wilson can be the guy.

That is fair enough. Go with your gut.

 

[Pump N Go]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

You're right, foolish to ignore Brown at this point but you're turning a blind eye to the fact that Brown can't stay healthy.

 

[LawFitz]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

What? Brown is faster than Wilson???

 

[Pump N Go]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

Jahvid Best averaged over 5 yards a carry in a game where he got 10+ carries once in 22 starts. David Wilson averaged over 5 yards a carry in a game where he got 10+ carries twice, and he was a backup RB who only had 10+ carries in 3 games and never started a single one. Best's fantasy relevance relied solely on his pass catching ability, he was a terrible runner. I'm not seeing the Best/Wilson comparison at all.

I've went at lengths at why his ypc are skewed by a few big runs with his small sample size. I was just answering a question, not really in for a good debate.

LOL this is the worst argument in fantasy, you could just as easily say his YPC is skewed by a couple of runs where he got hit behind the line.

 

[netnalp]

Patricia Traina

* Nice job by David Wilson to pick up linebacker Spencer Paysinger on a blitz. Wilson set his base, squared up his man, and stopped Paysinger’s forward momentum. It probably helped that Wilson saw Paysinger start to cheat toward the lien, but still, give him credit for getting the job done.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

Jahvid Best averaged over 5 yards a carry in a game where he got 10+ carries once in 22 starts. David Wilson averaged over 5 yards a carry in a game where he got 10+ carries twice, and he was a backup RB who only had 10+ carries in 3 games and never started a single one. Best's fantasy relevance relied solely on his pass catching ability, he was a terrible runner. I'm not seeing the Best/Wilson comparison at all.

I've went at lengths at why his ypc are skewed by a few big runs with his small sample size. I was just answering a question, not really in for a good debate.

Even if I were to accept the premise that Wilson is a home run hitter type of back, the difference between him and Best is that Wilson has at least been able to hit home runs consistently, whereas Best was not able to.

 

[Yenrub]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

What? Brown is faster than Wilson???

I would guess that he might not be faster since the Achilles injury but Brown ran a faster 40 time at the combine than Wilson.

Wilson ran 4.49

Brown ran 4.37

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

What? Brown is faster than Wilson???

I would guess that he might not be faster since the Achilles injury but Brown ran a faster 40 time at the combine than Wilson.

Wilson ran 4.49

Brown ran 4.37

According to http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/andre-brown?id=71225, Brown ran a 4.49 in the 40.

According to http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89855&draftyear=2012&genpos=RB, Wilson ran a 4.38 in the 40.

Not sure where you got your data, but would be interested to see your sources.

 

[Grahamburn]

Patricia Traina

* Nice job by David Wilson to pick up linebacker Spencer Paysinger on a blitz. Wilson set his base, squared up his man, and stopped Paysinger’s forward momentum. It probably helped that Wilson saw Paysinger start to cheat toward the lien, but still, give him credit for getting the job done.

Thank you.

 

[Horses Mouth]

i am having the hardest time deciding between keeping CJ and Wilson....

 

[finito]

i am having the hardest time deciding between keeping CJ and Wilson....

CJ Spiller? Calvin Johnson? I'd keep either over Wilson and I'm a Wilson fan. Chris Johnson I'd go with Wilson though, but it's pretty close.

 

[Yenrub]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

What? Brown is faster than Wilson???

I would guess that he might not be faster since the Achilles injury but Brown ran a faster 40 time at the combine than Wilson.

Wilson ran 4.49

Brown ran 4.37

According to http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/andre-brown?id=71225, Brown ran a 4.49 in the 40.

According to http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89855&draftyear=2012&genpos=RB, Wilson ran a 4.38 in the 40.

Not sure where you got your data, but would be interested to see your sources.

I really don't recall which site I saw the times I just remember being surprised that Brown ran faster than Wilson

Here are a few sites with the times I posted though

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=11382&draftyear=2009&genpos=rb

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Andre&l=Brown&i=8149

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/david-wilson?id=2533035

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/david-wilson?id=2533035

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1081507-david-wilson-combine-explosive-rbs-big-day-will-shoot-him-up-draft-boards

 

[Khy]

I have no idea what to make of Wilson, one minute I like him and the next I am down. I am pretty sure in my big money league, I am going to be faced with a decision to draft him at a decent value have no clue what to do. Can anyone that has followed him closely give me a brief final thought on him? This thread is really long and off the rails at times.

He's probably a thicker Javid Best, all hype brief flashes and whole lot of nothing. Don't be like the rest of the Wilson worshipers and ignore the guy next to him that's faster, 20 pounds heavier with better hands... especially in non-ppr. Let someone else in your league figure it out.

What? Brown is faster than Wilson???

I would guess that he might not be faster since the Achilles injury but Brown ran a faster 40 time at the combine than Wilson.

Wilson ran 4.49

Brown ran 4.37

According to http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/andre-brown?id=71225, Brown ran a 4.49 in the 40.

According to http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89855&draftyear=2012&genpos=RB, Wilson ran a 4.38 in the 40.

Not sure where you got your data, but would be interested to see your sources.

I really don't recall which site I saw the times I just remember being surprised that Brown ran faster than Wilson

Here are a few sites with the times I posted though

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=11382&draftyear=2009&genpos=rb

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Andre&l=Brown&i=8149

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/david-wilson?id=2533035

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/david-wilson?id=2533035

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1081507-david-wilson-combine-explosive-rbs-big-day-will-shoot-him-up-draft-boards

So if we're being completely honest here... it seems that either NFL.com is posting slower speeds for both players or NFLdrafts.com is posting faster speeds for both players. Cause NFLdrafts shows Wilson with a 4.38 and Brown with a 4.37. While NFL.com shows both with a 4.49. Either way 40 times mean nothing to me as they're always ALL over the place for players. Watch game tape, it's very clear that when WIlson breaks through the front 7 nobody is catching him. I don't care if his 40 speed shows as 4.1 or 5.9 on tape and in game he's one of the fastest guys on the field. Brown doesn't have this same game breaking speed on tape.

Point is: some people are better at combine numbers and some people are better at actual in game performance. The in game performance is what actually matters in both fantasy and real football.

 

[zamboni]

Patricia Traina

* Nice job by David Wilson to pick up linebacker Spencer Paysinger on a blitz. Wilson set his base, squared up his man, and stopped Paysinger’s forward momentum. It probably helped that Wilson saw Paysinger start to cheat toward the lien, but still, give him credit for getting the job done.

Hopefully Coughlin wasn't yelling at some other player and saw this - and had the same interpretation as the beat writer.

 

[Horses Mouth]

i am having the hardest time deciding between keeping CJ and Wilson....

CJ Spiller? Calvin Johnson? I'd keep either over Wilson and I'm a Wilson fan. Chris Johnson I'd go with Wilson though, but it's pretty close.

yes Chris Johnson

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Speaking in a Friday radio interview, Giants GM Jerry Reese called David Wilson his starting running back, but said he expects Andre Brown to have a role.
"(Brown) had a terrific season going last year until he got hurt," Reese said. "(Brown's) had the injury bug a little bit since he’s been in the league. But if he can stay healthy, and David Wilson comes on like we expect him too, we think we can have a pretty dynamic backfield." Wilson has been the Giants' clear early-down back this preseason, but has been losing nearly all third-down snaps to Brown. The G-Men still aren't satisfied with Wilson's pass protection. We'll get our most revealing usage clues on the duo in Saturday's preseason game against the Jets.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN New York

 

[Koya]

Rotoworld:

Speaking in a Friday radio interview, Giants GM Jerry Reese called David Wilson his starting running back, but said he expects Andre Brown to have a role.
"(Brown) had a terrific season going last year until he got hurt," Reese said. "(Brown's) had the injury bug a little bit since he’s been in the league. But if he can stay healthy, and David Wilson comes on like we expect him too, we think we can have a pretty dynamic backfield." Wilson has been the Giants' clear early-down back this preseason, but has been losing nearly all third-down snaps to Brown. The G-Men still aren't satisfied with Wilson's pass protection. We'll get our most revealing usage clues on the duo in Saturday's preseason game against the Jets.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN New York

AKA: What most of us who follow the team closely (and understand that game ) have been saying all year. Nothing has changed since the end of last season. Tons of upside, but hardly a full role, and when hardly full means few third downs nor short yardage.

 

[Faust]

David Wilson expected to be N.Y. Giants' starting back

By Chris Wesseling

Around the League Writer

In our "Making the Leap" feature, we opined that the New York Giants won't be able to keep running back David Wilson off the field because Andre Brown doesn't share the former's rare playmaking ability.

Giants general manager Jerry Reese acknowledged as much on "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" Friday morning on ESPN Radio.

Although Wilson and Brown entered training camp as co-starters, the former now stands alone atop the depth chart.

"We expect (Wilson) to be our starter, and be in the backfield with Andre Brown, who had a terrific season going last year until he got hurt," Reese said. "(Brown's) had the injury bug a little bit since he's been in the league. But if he can stay healthy, and David Wilson comes on like we expect him too, we think we can have a pretty dynamic backfield."

The Giants' first two preseason games have exhibited defined backfield roles. Wilson has been the primary tailback on early downs, only to give way to Brown on third downs and in obvious passing situations. The coaching staff still is hesitant to trust Wilson as a pass protector.

Brown handled short-yardage chores for a portion of last season, but we've noticed that Wilson has remained in the game when the Giants are on the doorstep of the end zone.

Considering Brown's inability to stay healthy going back to his college days at North Carolina, there's not a better breakout candidate at the position than the dynamic Wilson.

The "Around The League Podcast" is now available on iTunes! Click here to listen and subscribe.

 

[monk]

Rotoworld:

Speaking in a Friday radio interview, Giants GM Jerry Reese called David Wilson his starting running back, but said he expects Andre Brown to have a role.
"(Brown) had a terrific season going last year until he got hurt," Reese said. "(Brown's) had the injury bug a little bit since he’s been in the league. But if he can stay healthy, and David Wilson comes on like we expect him too, we think we can have a pretty dynamic backfield." Wilson has been the Giants' clear early-down back this preseason, but has been losing nearly all third-down snaps to Brown. The G-Men still aren't satisfied with Wilson's pass protection. We'll get our most revealing usage clues on the duo in Saturday's preseason game against the Jets.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN New York

AKA: What most of us who follow the team closely (and understand that game ) have been saying all year.

Now Lets turn back the clock a couple of weeks ...

Every Giant fan who closely follows the Giants and most importantly does not have a dog in the fight (Myself) will tell you that it's Wilsons job to lose and there is no question about it

Quote Koya

At least it's a guarantee that you are wrong in at least one point.

I have laid out my reasons for considerable doubt that he will be "the man"

Koya I think someone hacked your account

 

[Koya]

Rotoworld:

Speaking in a Friday radio interview, Giants GM Jerry Reese called David Wilson his starting running back, but said he expects Andre Brown to have a role.
"(Brown) had a terrific season going last year until he got hurt," Reese said. "(Brown's) had the injury bug a little bit since he’s been in the league. But if he can stay healthy, and David Wilson comes on like we expect him too, we think we can have a pretty dynamic backfield." Wilson has been the Giants' clear early-down back this preseason, but has been losing nearly all third-down snaps to Brown. The G-Men still aren't satisfied with Wilson's pass protection. We'll get our most revealing usage clues on the duo in Saturday's preseason game against the Jets.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN New York

AKA: What most of us who follow the team closely (and understand that game ) have been saying all year.

Now Lets turn back the clock a couple of weeks ...

Every Giant fan who closely follows the Giants and most importantly does not have a dog in the fight (Myself) will tell you that it's Wilsons job to lose and there is no question about it

Quote Koya

At least it's a guarantee that you are wrong in at least one point.

I have laid out my reasons for considerable doubt that he will be "the man"

Koya I think someone hacked your account

Huh? Not sure where you are coming from to be honest, and not much context there for me to work from. My position on this has been 100% consistent on Wilson all year. Big upside, but likelihood of having too many key situational touches taken by others, namely Brown, to be as good as many seem to push in this thread.

And, fwiw, while I'd have to read the original post first, my "guarantee that you are wrong" had something to do with a comment about no one being able to argue with Wilson's role. It was a tautology, because people were arguing with the point, and therefore that statement was, by definition, not true.

Not sure what else to say.

Wilson: Lots of upside, but good chance role will be limited to mostly 1st and 2nd down without short yardage / goaline. If he drops enough, the upside is tempting, as the talent is there. But, will the opportunity be?

 

[TwinTurbo]

Boom! You are going to see a lot of that in the regular season.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Andre who?