Rick James
Footballguy
Jeez now it's Wilson's fault Eli threw an interception? Give the guy a break.
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***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jeff Pasquino
- Start date
We have reason to believe that David Wilson is behind the use of chemical weapons in Syria.
Eh, I'm a DW fanboy, and the fumble is on DW. He has to protect that ball.
Good analysis of his mechanics problems on the fumbles: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1768808-whats-at-the-root-of-new-york-giants-running-back-david-wilsons-fumbling
Other RBs with early fumbling issues:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1770069-history-says-its-way-too-early-to-give-up-on-david-wilson
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1770069-history-says-its-way-too-early-to-give-up-on-david-wilson
netnalp
Footballguy
I think that's ridiculous too. In Carl Banks said in his review of the play that the INT on the first screen is on LT Beatty and Eli. Beatty allowed Ware to get inside when Beatty was supposed to push his man outside or cut him. Eli should have thrown the ball in the dirt when he saw Ware blowing up the play.
Khy
Footballguy
This is a really really good article. But invalid to 95% of the people posting in this thread because David Wilson clearly doesn't have elite talent to them and cannot be in the same discussion at: Adrian Peterson, LT2, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, Eric Dickerson etc.
Which I think is the biggest issue with this little discussion we have going here... some people (ShaBucks for example) do not believe in Wilson's talent outside of his fumbling and pass blocking woes. If you don't believe in that talent then you look at him as a mediocre RB who can't hold onto the ball and is clearly not worth having on the field.
Then you have the realistic camp who can see he has elite talent as a runner and if you can get him past his fumbling and pass blocking woes will more than likely be a top back in this league. Because so many of the all time greats had early career fumbling issues.
That's the real difference here and there's no real way to fix that.
T with T
Footballguy
This is hilarious that this David Wilson thread is at 55 pages and counting because it is obvious there are some big time David Wilson Hater's and people that try to discredit the young man. First of all Dwilson is 22 years old and was always a mvp type caliber player even before he was 19... Here is something you probably didn't know.
He was first-team all-district and all-region selection and the Gatorade Player of the Year for Virginia. In 2009, he played for USA Football's U.S. Under-19 National Team that won the 2009 IFAF Under-19 World Championship in Canton, Ohio and was named the tournament's MVP, rushing for 427 yards and eight touchdowns in three games.[2]
Here is some highlights on the above mentioned player from 2011 where he had over 1700 yards rushing, was by far the team's best player and leader. He had most yards after contact in the NCAA that year. He is 5-9 206 lbs with a BMI of 30.4..... Here are some clips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-m-Ev5amfM
The speech he puts on truly shows the heart,determination and will power he has and I love watching this vid as it gets me PUMPED, hyped and ready to rip someones head off as you could tell the rest of the locker room was ready to go kick some ###.... All this hate because the guy had a bad first game and had first game jitters needs to stop. Dwilson is a Superb runner and can be one of the best Backs in the league within a few years. Yes he has to improve with ball security and stand up and take on blockers but the guy is young and you can't ignore his talent. He is fast, has great vision, stronger then he looks and people give him credit for.... Do I need to say anymore guys.... For all the other Dwilson supporters out there I appreciate your awesome knowledge and positive vibes... All you Dwilson haters can go get in another thread and start talking stupid... Im all in on Dwilson and will be starting him vs Den as I think he has a huge game and will be running angry.
He was first-team all-district and all-region selection and the Gatorade Player of the Year for Virginia. In 2009, he played for USA Football's U.S. Under-19 National Team that won the 2009 IFAF Under-19 World Championship in Canton, Ohio and was named the tournament's MVP, rushing for 427 yards and eight touchdowns in three games.[2]
Here is some highlights on the above mentioned player from 2011 where he had over 1700 yards rushing, was by far the team's best player and leader. He had most yards after contact in the NCAA that year. He is 5-9 206 lbs with a BMI of 30.4..... Here are some clips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-m-Ev5amfM
The speech he puts on truly shows the heart,determination and will power he has and I love watching this vid as it gets me PUMPED, hyped and ready to rip someones head off as you could tell the rest of the locker room was ready to go kick some ###.... All this hate because the guy had a bad first game and had first game jitters needs to stop. Dwilson is a Superb runner and can be one of the best Backs in the league within a few years. Yes he has to improve with ball security and stand up and take on blockers but the guy is young and you can't ignore his talent. He is fast, has great vision, stronger then he looks and people give him credit for.... Do I need to say anymore guys.... For all the other Dwilson supporters out there I appreciate your awesome knowledge and positive vibes... All you Dwilson haters can go get in another thread and start talking stupid... Im all in on Dwilson and will be starting him vs Den as I think he has a huge game and will be running angry.
T with T
Footballguy
Was David wilson behind the 9-11 attacks,okc bombing, and sandy hook to>>>>
T with T
Footballguy
Good point I saw that to. Wilson was behind a huge d.ware who was jumping in the air and Eli just threw it right to him, not on Dwilson... Just like first fumble almost seemed like guy was pushed into him... either way as long as he doesn't play Dallas he won't fumble. He has 3 fumbles in 2 games against cowboys which coincidentally was the first game in the first place of the season.. Weird.
T with T
Footballguy
Wow Khy you are a really smart shark and I couldn't agree with you more my friend. Well put couldn't have said it better myself. Great info,reviews and analysis where most of this talk by haters is useless babble as they try to justify michael cox or andre brown(after week 10) or even brandon jacobs who is far from being anything better then a blocker at times. It will play out soon enough and I still have faith that Dwilson is a stud in the making. Keep the faith guys.
Khy
Footballguy
This is still one of my favorite videos of him... I remember watching this last year after the Giants drafted him and I could barely pick my jaw off the floor. I had known of him prior to the draft and thought he had some talent but after watching that video I was amazed at the fact that: David Wilson DOESN'T go down after first contact... and is almost never brought down by a single player. Then last season I felt like we saw that same thing in his NFL play. If you make a small hole and give this kid one man to beat... he will beat him 9/10 and gain more yards. The only time he loses yardage is when the offensive line blows their blocking assignments and he's whacked behind the line. But there's a reason he was the NCAA leader in yards after contact.
Khy
Footballguy
That's kind of the whole point of this article that was linked above... it just goes and lists pretty much every HoF running back you can think of who had early career fumbling issues in many cases much worse than what we've seen of Wilson so far. And they fought through it and managed to get past it. Wilson will too, Coughlin has taught 3 different RBs how to hold the ball properly and fixed their fumbling issues. He'll get Wilson to that point as well.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1770069-history-says-its-way-too-early-to-give-up-on-david-wilson
T with T
Footballguy
agreed fumbling and missed blocking was only knock on this kid... Other then that he is a phenom and could be every bit as good as AP just a different kind of runner. I believe he figures it out and gets his butt ready for this game and will have huge numbers this year. He is passionate to boy I tell ya...
T with T
Footballguy
I think it's interesting that FBG on its news section is saying Dwilson could return kicks this next game. I wonder if that is a smokescreen or invicative on Wilson losing lots of work on the offensive side.. Here again I don't believe the Giants have a choice. Cox/scott are both rookies and that is one reason coughlin benched Dwilson for so long because he was a rookie and Coughlin doesn't like rolling with rookies, that's a fact. So now you have cox/scott relegated to deep bench work or 3rd down. Bjacobs is not even in football shape and was sitting on his couch as early as last week. Do you Wilson haters really think Jacobs will even play in this next game. I wouldn't be surprised if he was severely limited or not even active and the giants roll with wilson/scott/cox for week 2...
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Avery
Footballguy
... and it would have been ridiculous to compare those guys to existing HOFers in their first couple of years of play.ROYALWITCHEESE said:
Hindsight is 20/20.
I'm not saying that Wilson is a future HOFer and neither is the article or anybody here. All it is saying is that there are players who had good RB skillsets and fumbling issues - just like Wilson. Will Wilson overcome his ball security issues to become a very good RB? Maybe. Maybe not. But history does say that some do and that some do and become great.
I wish everyone would stop making the straw man argument that by having the gaul to mention Peterson or other great RB that had fumbling issues, that people are necessarily calling Wilson a HOF RB.
Avery
Footballguy
Additionally, it's fallacy that Coughlin doesn't like playing rookies.
During his first Superbowl run with the Giants, rookies Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Ahmasd Bradshaw, and Michael Johnson all played major roles in the team and their Superbowl victory.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
i think wilson will overcome the issue, and he is very talented...
if he gets a chance, he should fluorish...
coughlin didn't seem to be as stubborn with tiki... BUT, tiki was established when coughlin came on board, unlike wilson... and lets face it, wilson's timing has been BRUTAL (coughing it up once in '12 and twice in '13 season openers)...
a list of hall of famers that fumbled is suggestive in some ways... it is a loaded example, though... by definition, if it a list of hall of famers (or caliber), great backs, we already knew they must have overcome the issue (or at least it was overlooked and tolerated), or they wouldn't have become hall of famers...
for a fair, balanced appraisal (if wilson is really great, he will stand up to the increased scrutiny), it seems incomplete to not look at the opposite aspect... how many talented RBs derailed their careers by fumbling?
that is almost a loaded question, too, in the sense that these instances will be more obscure and harder to remember (no hall of fumblers
)... i have mentioned names like cleveland gary and tim worley having issues with fumbling which may have impacted career negatively, but, not sure how talented they were in relation to wilson, or what if any the impact was... did they really have shortened carers? some RBs we just will never know... if they fumbled too much early and never got another chance, they fell into abyss of history, never had the chance to make a name for themselves (how many otherwise could have been priest holmes or arian foster?)...
peterson was a touchy issue because apart from what he has done in NFL, he was on a higher level as a prospect... it is clear to see why his pro HC might be more forgiving... that won't necessarily be (and probably isn't) the case with wilson... if we are going to cite comps, lets try and come up with COMPARABLE comps (that is kind of the whole point of invoking them in the first place)...
some people are making shotgun arguments for wilson (hopefully he stops fumbling, but if he doesn't, he might be so great they overlook it anyways, etc.), sort of like oliver stone in JFK (was it the russians, the cubans, war mongers, conservatives - if everybody who was supposedly involved in the conspiracy actually held a meeting, they would need to rent out madison square garden! )... as somebody who is pro-wilson, i'd be much more comfortable assigning him a positive arc and trajectory to the remainder of his career if he can just hang on to the ball better... almost everybody fumbles once in a while, and his style of never-say-die, tackle breaking prowess is admirable... but if he is going to continue that, he needs to be EXTRA cognizant to hold the ball "high and tight" with proper technique...
MAYBE he is great enough to overcome continued fumbles...
DEFINITELY if he gets fumbles under control, that will be better for his long term future and short/mid-term playing opps...
if he gets a chance, he should fluorish...
coughlin didn't seem to be as stubborn with tiki... BUT, tiki was established when coughlin came on board, unlike wilson... and lets face it, wilson's timing has been BRUTAL (coughing it up once in '12 and twice in '13 season openers)...
a list of hall of famers that fumbled is suggestive in some ways... it is a loaded example, though... by definition, if it a list of hall of famers (or caliber), great backs, we already knew they must have overcome the issue (or at least it was overlooked and tolerated), or they wouldn't have become hall of famers...
for a fair, balanced appraisal (if wilson is really great, he will stand up to the increased scrutiny), it seems incomplete to not look at the opposite aspect... how many talented RBs derailed their careers by fumbling?
that is almost a loaded question, too, in the sense that these instances will be more obscure and harder to remember (no hall of fumblers
)... i have mentioned names like cleveland gary and tim worley having issues with fumbling which may have impacted career negatively, but, not sure how talented they were in relation to wilson, or what if any the impact was... did they really have shortened carers? some RBs we just will never know... if they fumbled too much early and never got another chance, they fell into abyss of history, never had the chance to make a name for themselves (how many otherwise could have been priest holmes or arian foster?)...peterson was a touchy issue because apart from what he has done in NFL, he was on a higher level as a prospect... it is clear to see why his pro HC might be more forgiving... that won't necessarily be (and probably isn't) the case with wilson... if we are going to cite comps, lets try and come up with COMPARABLE comps (that is kind of the whole point of invoking them in the first place)...
some people are making shotgun arguments for wilson (hopefully he stops fumbling, but if he doesn't, he might be so great they overlook it anyways, etc.), sort of like oliver stone in JFK (was it the russians, the cubans, war mongers, conservatives - if everybody who was supposedly involved in the conspiracy actually held a meeting, they would need to rent out madison square garden!
)... as somebody who is pro-wilson, i'd be much more comfortable assigning him a positive arc and trajectory to the remainder of his career if he can just hang on to the ball better... almost everybody fumbles once in a while, and his style of never-say-die, tackle breaking prowess is admirable... but if he is going to continue that, he needs to be EXTRA cognizant to hold the ball "high and tight" with proper technique...MAYBE he is great enough to overcome continued fumbles...
DEFINITELY if he gets fumbles under control, that will be better for his long term future and short/mid-term playing opps...
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T with T
Footballguy
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Disagree. Anyone who saw Peterson play in his rookie year knew the guy was special.
And the HUGE difference here, IMO, is that those HOF guys' talent AND play justified them being on the field despite the fumbles. Wilson, thus far, has justified the opposite--that his talents and play have NOT been worth keeping him in the game.
If he were as great as some think, he would still be getting the carries, and his coach would not be dancing around whether or not he will play a big role. He has to stop the fumbling, missed assignments, etc before he will even get a solid chance to be a 3 down RB.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
we don't know enough about his talent in live NFL action, because unfortunately he has shot himself in the foot at the worst possible times, in his only two season openers... and in worst possible situation, with hard case HC...
but in limited action last year, he flashed blue chip talent...
i'm not prepared to assume wilson is such a transcendent talent that it is a mere trivial detail and formality that of course he will rise to the top no matter how much he fumbles...
but make no mistake, if he overcomes fumbles, i have little doubt he has elite ability at the position and the talent to emerge as a special RB.
but in limited action last year, he flashed blue chip talent...
i'm not prepared to assume wilson is such a transcendent talent that it is a mere trivial detail and formality that of course he will rise to the top no matter how much he fumbles...
but make no mistake, if he overcomes fumbles, i have little doubt he has elite ability at the position and the talent to emerge as a special RB.
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T with T
Footballguy
I doubt that N, even if it is case Wilson should see Lion's share of the carries. Only reason I could see Scott start or take first snap would be for TC to send message to Dwilson and mess with him psychologically, which at this point is pointless and could do more harm then good. I think Dwilson knows he played like ##### and has to step up, he doesn't need any more messages sent, I think he understands.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Playing the what if game, what if Wilson fumbles on the first series? Wouldn't Scott have another crack at it? Is Wilson on double secret probation? Shouldn't Scott at least be rostered if the space is available?
Koya
Footballguy
As a Giants fan who has loved the upside, but been concerned over both his role and his ability to fill various roles watching this thread has been a hoot, I have to admit. A lot of posturing all around.
At this point, you have to assume the Giants, sooner rather than later, are going to give Wilson another chance to be a force for the team. They need his skillset, and once they feel he has a chance to succeed, they will let him try. However, ONE more big miscue (missed assignment, especially a fumble) and god knows how deep a hole he will then be in. Might be returns only for a long time, if not the season.
The good news is Wilson certainly has the ability to take the opportunity, when next presented, and run with it. However, even if that is the case, then I don't see him getting critical touches for a long, long time. For example, goal line. So, even if he CAN overcome about as ugly a week one as you could imagine, how can you think Wilson would have any decent shot to reclaim the full "upside" that many were pimping in here. Can't see him trusted with a 1st and goal inside the 5 for a long time.
At this point, you have to assume the Giants, sooner rather than later, are going to give Wilson another chance to be a force for the team. They need his skillset, and once they feel he has a chance to succeed, they will let him try. However, ONE more big miscue (missed assignment, especially a fumble) and god knows how deep a hole he will then be in. Might be returns only for a long time, if not the season.
The good news is Wilson certainly has the ability to take the opportunity, when next presented, and run with it. However, even if that is the case, then I don't see him getting critical touches for a long, long time. For example, goal line. So, even if he CAN overcome about as ugly a week one as you could imagine, how can you think Wilson would have any decent shot to reclaim the full "upside" that many were pimping in here. Can't see him trusted with a 1st and goal inside the 5 for a long time.
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I don't own him, but a good buddy in my league who has him is sweating bullets, considering lowball offers, and generally needs to be talked off the ledge. Small sample size, but yes I think that there a lot of DW owners crossing their fingers he doesn't get benched again over his fumbling issues.
Sienna2012
Footballguy
I am starting him with confidence. We all get duds or low scoring outputs from time to time from any given player in our lineup.
joey
Footballguy
Struggling between Wilson and Bradshaw at my flex.
Both have tought defensive matchups.
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
I hope you're right but this is crazy. No evidence whatsoever to start him with confidence. I've got him in 2 of 4 leagues, including the one that counts.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
if wilson gets a chance again tomorrow, looks good doing it, hangs on to the ball, scores a TD or two, and looks like he is back in the team's good graces again...
we are going to see some seriously whipsaw action on his value in the next week...
we are going to see some seriously whipsaw action on his value in the next week...
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Short Corner
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
you could say that about anybody...
few players are as primed to have their value explode as wilson...
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I'm starting him with zero confidence. Seems more likely to get < 5 touches than he does to get 100 total yards + 1 TD.
he_hate_me_too
Footballguy
I am a Wilson owner and Giants season ticket owner. Here is mine and the local media take:
Wilson will get another shot. You do not put your first round pick (and the giants are very loyal to their draft picks: see Jerrel Jernigan), on the shelf after 1 bad game. The NY Giants have no one at RB that can match DWils talent. Coughlin is smart enough to know that De'rel Scott is not a starting RB in this league over the long term. As far as this week or today I believe it is TC's threat to start Scott is his way of trying to motivate DWill to play better and get over this fumblitis.
I think he will fix these issues. Today is a game that worries me as a Wilson owner since the Giants may be playing from behind, and forced to throw. In that case the could abandn the run, and we could see a lot of Jacobs or Scott in pass protection.
As a owner I don't get a great feeling on today because of what the score and passing from the NYG, but I think Wilson will turn his season around, and will play up to his draft spot. He is too talented. He has CJ Spiller ability. Now if he could have Spiller's results. The kid has the right attitude to get better. I think it's all mental, so I could see the NYG tryng to get the ball to him in space. I could envision swing passes and pitches to him. We shall see.
Good Luck...jus my 2 cents. I gotta go, I have a game to get to. ;-)
Wilson will get another shot. You do not put your first round pick (and the giants are very loyal to their draft picks: see Jerrel Jernigan), on the shelf after 1 bad game. The NY Giants have no one at RB that can match DWils talent. Coughlin is smart enough to know that De'rel Scott is not a starting RB in this league over the long term. As far as this week or today I believe it is TC's threat to start Scott is his way of trying to motivate DWill to play better and get over this fumblitis.
I think he will fix these issues. Today is a game that worries me as a Wilson owner since the Giants may be playing from behind, and forced to throw. In that case the could abandn the run, and we could see a lot of Jacobs or Scott in pass protection.
As a owner I don't get a great feeling on today because of what the score and passing from the NYG, but I think Wilson will turn his season around, and will play up to his draft spot. He is too talented. He has CJ Spiller ability. Now if he could have Spiller's results. The kid has the right attitude to get better. I think it's all mental, so I could see the NYG tryng to get the ball to him in space. I could envision swing passes and pitches to him. We shall see.
Good Luck...jus my 2 cents. I gotta go, I have a game to get to. ;-)
No.
The Giants are not going to give up on Wilson ...they have made that clear as day.
Scott was an injury away from being cut and never heard from again.
If necessary Jacobs and/or Cox would start over Scott in time or they would sign another RB.
Rove!
Footballguy
If I had drafted him, I would play him. Vereen was the only back w/ 100 yds last week, so if he stinks, I think the risk is lower.
He'll likely start, and you drafted him high for a reason.
Have the sack to see how it plays out unless you have another stellar option.
He still has to prove himself at this level, and he's NOT a transcendant talent like ADP, but he does have upside.
He'll likely start, and you drafted him high for a reason.
Have the sack to see how it plays out unless you have another stellar option.
He still has to prove himself at this level, and he's NOT a transcendant talent like ADP, but he does have upside.
Rove!
Footballguy
I guess? If you have no clue and dont follow the Giants.
Scott was absolutely going to be cut before Andre Brown was injured - If that's crazy talk you should bring it up with the Giants and Giant beat writers
There is about 0% chance that Scott will be the featured back on this or any team. He's fast but that's it. Cox has been much more impressive. And Scott is injured.
If you think it's crazy talk ... go get Scott on your roster
Khy
Footballguy
I tried to explain several times in this thread that Scott was a nobody that was going to be cut and was completely unrosterable for fantasy purposes. Don't bother, some people just don't want to listen.
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Rove!
Footballguy
you make a good point about Andre Brown (who was cut once befpore by the Giants in 2010)., but there's no way Cox is even close to being ready to play significant time and Jacobs is old and may be good for spot duty (3d doen, pass pro, a few carries), but ask him to carry a significant portion of the load and he'll end up on the injury report where he spent most of last season.
Scott is fast and the offense was able to move the ball with him in the backfield. He's the stop-gap and Coughlin will go that way if he has to. If they didin't think they had adequate backup they would have signed a guy like McGahee and not Jacobs.
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
He is starting today.....
