Captain Blowhard
Footballguy
Rex has always been inconsistent. Don't act so surprised.gferrell20 said:
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Debunking Rex Grossman: (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Da Guru
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Oh the Humanity
Footballguy
I've changed my mind. After seeing today's game it's obvious that Grossman has regressed in the last six weeks. I don't think leaving him in there is good for him or the Bears. I still think he's going to be a good QB but he's not really ready. Maybe his early success was a bad thing in that it made everyone believe that he was further along than he is.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I agree. Grossman showed flashes and I wouldn't write him off for the future by any means.But at this point, you've got a team that can win the Super Bowl with a mediocre QB, and a proven mediocre QB is sitting on your bench. Get him in there, get back to having a credible passing game, win your title, and revisit Rex next season.
el-gato-grande
Footballguy
The throws that Rex got away with earlier in the season are now not dropping his way. The guy was extremely wild early in the campaign and commentators were comparing him to a young Brett Favre (the tired gunslinger cliche). But, that was when his receivers were making great plays going up and getting his moon balls. Now they are not doing that and he is getting exposed.
Whether he is not ready, or will never be ready, the fact of the matter is the Bears can get to the Superbowl in the weakened NFC if they simply have a good game manager under center. Only the Cowboys scare me at this point and the Bears should have home field in nasty weather if it comes to that.
I think Grossman has lost confidence and the relentless pressure of fans and media will not help matters. He will press, more bad things will happen, and against a good team those bad things will result in a loss. We can't afford that in a once and done scenario like the playoffs.
Whether he is not ready, or will never be ready, the fact of the matter is the Bears can get to the Superbowl in the weakened NFC if they simply have a good game manager under center. Only the Cowboys scare me at this point and the Bears should have home field in nasty weather if it comes to that.
I think Grossman has lost confidence and the relentless pressure of fans and media will not help matters. He will press, more bad things will happen, and against a good team those bad things will result in a loss. We can't afford that in a once and done scenario like the playoffs.
PsychoMan
Footballguy
c'mon now, i expected some inconsistencies from the young QB, and he was a tad inconsistent earlier in the season.now, he's just been downright terrible for 85% of his last 6 or so games.
PsychoMan
Footballguy
i think the height thing is really hurting him as well ... i noticed it bigtime today. he had several batted / tipped balls at the line & the announcers mentioned that he said he was having a hard time seeing his receivers over the line. i think this may have more to do with his production that i originally thought it may ..
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Thanks, Bears fans, for all coming over to my point of view.
bostonfred
Footballguy
It's cute how Bears fans think they can win the Superbowl by upgrading to proven mediocrity at quarterback.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Something people are going to need to get used to with Grossman is he is a gunslinger. He was a gunslinger in college at UF too. He has always been feast or famine.
The comparisons to Brett Favre are accurate in my opinion. Farve was like this in Atlanta.
IMO people need to lay off and realize that if he turns into consistent QB after playing 48 games in the NFL he will be doing well comparitively on the learning curve.
I realize we live in an instant gratification society, but QBs usually take time to develop (unless your name is Manning). 48 games would be exceptional.
But where Grossman is at now in his development on his good days are making you raise the bar too high. He's not terrible. He is just inconsistent. Experience should take care of alot of that.
Unfortunately, you just can't speed up experience.
He is the QB of the Bears. He is going to be the QB of the Bears. Get used to it.
The comparisons to Brett Favre are accurate in my opinion. Farve was like this in Atlanta.
IMO people need to lay off and realize that if he turns into consistent QB after playing 48 games in the NFL he will be doing well comparitively on the learning curve.
I realize we live in an instant gratification society, but QBs usually take time to develop (unless your name is Manning). 48 games would be exceptional.
But where Grossman is at now in his development on his good days are making you raise the bar too high. He's not terrible. He is just inconsistent. Experience should take care of alot of that.
Unfortunately, you just can't speed up experience.
He is the QB of the Bears. He is going to be the QB of the Bears. Get used to it.
PsychoMan
Footballguy
hey hairy .. that's pretty much been my mentality all season ... but lately he looks like he's got some serious issues that i'm now wondering if they can be fixed. i know young QBs are inconsistent, but he's going through some of these games without a single hint of goodness .. i wouldn't even call it inconsistent, but just bad the entire game.the other problem is that this bears team may not be this good for long .. and the NFC may not be this bad for long. this may be the bears best shot at a superbowl that they'll ever get and i think everyone would agree that rex is the only thing holding them back. what about trying griese out for a few games, and if he's consistent enough, letting him play through the playoffs? we could always give rex a fresh start at the beginning of next season if we want him to be our QB of the future ...
shakeybarn
Footballguy
Florida QB... benefactor of a great system... sounds familiar......
I grabbed Griese... given the Romo/Bledsoe, Plummer/Cutler moves... a bit anticipation for a 'playoff-centric' (goes through the Super Bowl) league.
I grabbed Griese... given the Romo/Bledsoe, Plummer/Cutler moves... a bit anticipation for a 'playoff-centric' (goes through the Super Bowl) league.
Captain Blowhard
Footballguy
I think the most impressive stat today (other than the Bears winning) was WRex's 4 rushes for -9 yards.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Honestly, I find it hard to disagree with you except that the team is 10-2 with him at the helm. The overall picture is still pretty good with him as leader of the team. But I also agree he has issues at times as most young QBs do. My opinion is that at times he thinks to much and falls into "analysis paralysis". He's busy thinking about the defense when he should just be acting. But to me that is specifically an experience issue. Believe me, he knows the mental aspect of the passing game as well as most of the coaches. He just needs to settle down, trust his reads and just allow himself to make the play that presents itself. I'm not saying that he isn't going to have more of these games. He is aggressive to a fault.But one thing Rex has been throughout his carrer is good in the clutch. He has a knack of making the big play in the really big moment. And I have faith in him still.Do I personally think Rex is a liability for the Bears going into the playoffs? ..................I think he gives us the best chance to win now and in the future. I think benching him would be the wrong move. I think Griese would be a good 2 -3 game spot player, but he isn't the "perfect" QB people are painting him to be. There are serious flaws in his game also.As Bears fans just be careful what you wish for. There are reasons this is Griese's 3rd team.
nflguru
Footballguy
Grossman is awful... He looked great in a couple of early games this year but has been so inaccurate its painful to watch... His defense is winning games for him every week...
At least last season Orton didnt turn the ball over and put his defense in tough positions... He took what the D gave him and punted when they needed to punt...
It's time for Griese, he is a solid QB and at this point in time is the better option for the Bears... 2 weeks ago I was still saying grossman, last week it was tough to say.. now its time - Griese..
At least last season Orton didnt turn the ball over and put his defense in tough positions... He took what the D gave him and punted when they needed to punt...
It's time for Griese, he is a solid QB and at this point in time is the better option for the Bears... 2 weeks ago I was still saying grossman, last week it was tough to say.. now its time - Griese..
Unlucky
Phenom
But you can't credit Grossman with those 10 wins. The ARZ game and today's game vs. MIN were won by the defense and special teams in spite of Grossman. Grossman now has 4 games of 3+ INTs. That isn't good. He has 5 games of 100+ QB rating, and 4 games under 37 QB rating. (all in the last 6 games) Can you really count on him to not have a terrible game in the playoffs? Can you count on him to produce 3 straight games? I don't think so. Griese's numbers are better than Grossman's over their careers when measuring key stats like comp%, TD/INT ratio, and YPA. The Bears better get Griese some significant playing time over the next four weeks if they want to win the Superbowl.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I'm not a Bears fan. And the Bears absolutely can win the Super Bowl with Griese. Today their QB threw for 34 yards and 3 picks and they still won a game. They have BY FAR the best defense in the league. They have the most dangerous return man in the league. They have a good offensive line and solid running game. Rex Grossman has thrown 14 picks in his last 7 games. He's playing incomprehensibly bad football. And the Bears are still tied for the best record in the NFL. You replace him with a guy who has completed 63% of his career passes for 103 TD to 78 INT, and you've really got something.
PsychoMan
Footballguy
Agreed.No one is saying Griese is great, but that he should be able to manage the games better, and not turn the ball over as much. That's all the Bears need at this point.
flapgreen
Footballguy
We're in the minority but I'm with you, Hairy. We didn't wait this long on Rex to bench him this quickly. We've seen what he's capable of at times. I think Lovie sees those same things. Rex is and should be our guy for a while. You don't just give up on the guy now. This is exactly why the coaches are the coaches and the fans are the fans. After a few bad or even terrible games, they're asking to bench a guy they were building up as the future of the franchise a few weeks ago. That's how fans are but that's not how teams operate. Rex is the guy and we're sticking with me. I'm fine with that.
ETA: Griese sucks too. Calling for him to come in and lead or team to the Super Bowl is laughable to me.
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Iron Mike Tomczak
Footballguy
Alright. . Rex sucked today. In fact, hes looked pretty bad for the past few weeks. The Bears D was the Bears D, they won the game for their pitiful offense.
What excited me about the Bears earlier in the season was how well the Offense was keeping up with the defense. That is no longer happening. It could change, perhaps they watch some film and point out mistakes and we see a better outing.
As it stands now, however, I see the Bears losing early in the Playoffs if they dont straighten out their offense and heal up the defense. The defense is good enough to win despite their offense, but the only reason they won this week is that they were playing the worst team in football. Any other team takes advantage of Rex's mistakes and wins.
What excited me about the Bears earlier in the season was how well the Offense was keeping up with the defense. That is no longer happening. It could change, perhaps they watch some film and point out mistakes and we see a better outing.
As it stands now, however, I see the Bears losing early in the Playoffs if they dont straighten out their offense and heal up the defense. The defense is good enough to win despite their offense, but the only reason they won this week is that they were playing the worst team in football. Any other team takes advantage of Rex's mistakes and wins.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
He's got to have naked pictures of a ménage à trois between H.C. Lovie Smith, G.M. Jerry Angelo and O.C. Ron Turner.
There's no other explaining it.
There's no other explaining it.
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mlball77
Footballguy
I think the misconception about those of us in the Griese camp is that we want him to lead the Bears to the SB. Thats not it AT ALL. I think that we are looking for a QB that won't derail the train, like Grossman is currently doing. Its not about the future for this team, its about the current season and which QB will protect the ball. The Bears running game and defense are what makes the team good, a QB that turns over the ball 3 times a game can blow that.
I agree, Griese is not very good, but right now; Grossman has been horrible. I'll take mediocrity over the level Grossman has played at the last 5 weeks, happily.
Any team asking Griese to lead it to a SB is a joke, but the Bears don't need him to lead the team or the offense even... just play decent and minimize turnovers; letting the running game, defense and even special teams carry the load.
I agree, Griese is not very good, but right now; Grossman has been horrible. I'll take mediocrity over the level Grossman has played at the last 5 weeks, happily.
Any team asking Griese to lead it to a SB is a joke, but the Bears don't need him to lead the team or the offense even... just play decent and minimize turnovers; letting the running game, defense and even special teams carry the load.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
You should call that into the Mack, Jurko & Harry show too GA...............
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Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Favre threw a grand total of 5 passes for Atlanta. 0-for-5 with 2 INTs. Hardly a flattering comparison for Rex, although after today's game it doesn't seem all that far off.
nflguru
Footballguy
The folks that are saying stay with Rex, are you watching these games?? Everytime he steps back to pass I'm saying no no dont throw it!!
1 pick was not his fault (today)... the other two were bad... he has been awful for weeks... I'm not a cub fan and want to hear the rebuilding process thru Grossman...
Earlier this year in pre-season he was awful and everyone was calling for Griese... then Grossman plays well and everyone says "wow was I wrong"... Now a lot of people are saying "Maybe I wasn't wrong?"
For the playoffs, do you think he gives the team their best chance of winning? Right now I would say no.
1 pick was not his fault (today)... the other two were bad... he has been awful for weeks... I'm not a cub fan and want to hear the rebuilding process thru Grossman...
Earlier this year in pre-season he was awful and everyone was calling for Griese... then Grossman plays well and everyone says "wow was I wrong"... Now a lot of people are saying "Maybe I wasn't wrong?"
For the playoffs, do you think he gives the team their best chance of winning? Right now I would say no.
Righetti
Footballguy
Ravens did itBucs also didn't have a stud
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Brian Griese is much better than people give him credit for. Tampa Bay was 5-1 with him last year, 6-4 without, and he completed 64% of his passes. His career completion rate is 63%, which is very good, and his Y/A of 7.0 is solid.
His arm isn't very strong and his leadership is questionable, but Griese is among the most accurate QBs in the league and that alone gives him a leg up on Grossman.
His arm isn't very strong and his leadership is questionable, but Griese is among the most accurate QBs in the league and that alone gives him a leg up on Grossman.
flapgreen
Footballguy
I watch every game and I'm well aware of what's going on. If the coaching staff hasn't given up on him yet this season, they're not going to and I'm with them. We're going to find out of this guy is the qb of our franchise for years to come or not. We know Griese isn't but not Rex. He's had a bad stretch of games over the last few weeks. I don't think that means he's destined to be terrible forever. He still doesn't even have that much experience. I'm just not ready to pull the plug on a guy we've waited around for this long. Neither is Lovie. Sorry. That's how I see it.
Southside Stosh
Footballguy
Lovie will stick with Rex until he's convinced that Rex IS NOT the Da Bears QB of the future. Playoffs be dammed. No way the coaching staff throws Rex under the bus.
Lovie says what he means and means what he says to his players, the media and the fans. If Lovie becomes disenchanted with Rex he will no doubt answer questions about Rex's future with a blanket statement about the need to play better at that position - or else.
Lovie says what he means and means what he says to his players, the media and the fans. If Lovie becomes disenchanted with Rex he will no doubt answer questions about Rex's future with a blanket statement about the need to play better at that position - or else.
flapgreen
Footballguy
I just don't buy into that philosophy. Regardless of how uninvolved a qb is in the offense, he's still one of the leaders of the team. He's the qb. I understand where you're coming from but I respectfully disagree.
flapgreen
Footballguy
That is pretty bad.
mlball77
Footballguy
I think there have been a few SB teams that have gotten there with a mediocre starting QB at best... a guy that is not the leader of the team nor offense. I understand that you may not agree with the philosophy, but that doesn't mean that a team centered around a great defense and solid running is not capable of making a SB run. Again, history has proven this possible. Right now, Rex is well below mediocre and bordering on awful. That sort of QB will not get the Bears far, thus the call from many of us for Griese. I am not saying Lovie et al will make such a call, but imo, they should.The Bears are in the position to go to the SB this year and just need decent QB play. If Griese can give them that, he should play. I don't care about who is the QB of the future... cheesy to say, but the future is now for CHI. We can go far in the playoffs THIS year... but not with a QB throwing three picks every week.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this subject. I guess my thing, like many others here, is that I feel the QB that gives CHI the best chance to win THIS year should play. Plain and simple. This may be a shortsighted view, but I think the Bears can win now and should approach this year as such... scrapping the QB of the future mentality.
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flapgreen
Footballguy
You might be right. I wish I knew the right answer because I sure would like to go to the Super Bowl.
nflguru
Footballguy
If the team was losing I think we would have seen Griese by now... He continues to have an opportunity because of the D/special team play and if he doesnt turn it around here soon we will see Griese... It's not easy to watch him and wait for seasons on him to say make a move.. but the reality is he is hurting the team and not our best option right now.. Since the team has clinched we will see some more of Grossman and to be honest I'd like to be wrong and see him turn it around... Concerned that the poor play will continue and that Griese will be called on in the playoffs with some rust that he could have shaken off in a game or two before the playoffs..
mlball77
Footballguy
I hear ya. And don't get me wrong, I WANT Rex to be the man in CHI... I really wish that could happen. Its been soooo long since CHI has had a QB worth watching and being a fan of... and a guy that can lead the offense. I agree, long-term, Griese is clearly not that guy... and Grossman just may be. I haven't writen Grossman off forever, I just can't continue to support him for this season with his play the last 5 weeks or so. 2-3 bad games and I wouldn't care, but its been 5-6 or so. That is scary to me... and his play has been bad enough to blow or almost blow a few games recently (if not for the incredible play of the D). Playing the top teams in the NFC in the playoffs, his recent play will undoubtedly result in CHI losses, imo. I think Griese would unfortunately be an improvment. That doesn't make me happy as a Bears fan, but I think this team could make a SB run with even decent QB play... QB play that is more centered on not turning the ball over. I really feel Griese would be more successful on that front... but clearly the coaches for CHI know immeasurably more than I do and will make the proper call. I'll just have to trust that they'll make the right decision. I'm fairly certain they'll decide to stick with Rex. I hope the guy can turn it around.You might be right. I wish I knew the right answer because I sure would like to go to the Super Bowl.
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Oh the Humanity
Footballguy
I don't think they can win the Superbowl with Griese neither, but at this point I don't see Grossman as learning from his experiences and they certainly aren't going to win the Super Bowl with him playing the way he has the last few weeks. If you graph his performance from the 49er game at the end of October until today you can see a consistant regression (other than the 2nd half of the Giant game) in each game until now. Today should have been a good day to turn it around. Home game against a mediocre team with a bad pass defense, and he was just awful. I think it might be getting to the point where it starts affecting his psyche and the team's psyche. I'm really surprised he didn't turn it around this week, but he failed spectacularly.
Joe Sixpack
Footballguy
Grossman has had some INTs that were "as good as a punt," he had one like that today and another that bounced off the receiver's hands for an INT, that can happen to anyone.
I'm more worried about the bad decisions- he had one INT today that was more of a bad decision than an mechanics/accuracy issue. I knew watching him throw into double coverage in the preseason that he had a long way to go.
The good news is he didn't fumble today- that is much more deadly to a team than a deep ball INT thrown to a single-covered receiver. I saw other signs of progress- he actually threw the ball away today and the whole crowd cheered. There are signs he is starting to "get it" but it is getting closer to playoffs and needs to progress more quickly in order to be ready to face the best teams the NFL has to offer.
In order for Rex to find the open man there has to actually be one open. When Grossman was "on" he was connecting with his TE Desmond Clark quite a bit. I was surprised that Bradley didn't have a catch in the game either, if he stays healthy I think he can be a pro-bowl receiver. Throw some high percentage passes to the backs, spread the ball around, run some more 3 WR sets or send the TE out on a hot read. The playcalling has to give the kid his best chance to succeed- or as OTH said, he is going to lose confidence in himself if he hasn't already.
I'm more worried about the bad decisions- he had one INT today that was more of a bad decision than an mechanics/accuracy issue. I knew watching him throw into double coverage in the preseason that he had a long way to go.
The good news is he didn't fumble today- that is much more deadly to a team than a deep ball INT thrown to a single-covered receiver. I saw other signs of progress- he actually threw the ball away today and the whole crowd cheered. There are signs he is starting to "get it" but it is getting closer to playoffs and needs to progress more quickly in order to be ready to face the best teams the NFL has to offer.
In order for Rex to find the open man there has to actually be one open. When Grossman was "on" he was connecting with his TE Desmond Clark quite a bit. I was surprised that Bradley didn't have a catch in the game either, if he stays healthy I think he can be a pro-bowl receiver. Throw some high percentage passes to the backs, spread the ball around, run some more 3 WR sets or send the TE out on a hot read. The playcalling has to give the kid his best chance to succeed- or as OTH said, he is going to lose confidence in himself if he hasn't already.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Trent Dilfer played for the Bucs and took them into the playoffs a couple of times...and was with the Bucs although not starting when they went the NFC CHampionship against the Rams...And while the Bucs may not have had a stud in Brad Johnson, he certainly was capable of making the necessary throws when he was the Bucs QB. He also lead the Skins and Vikes in to the playoffs.
This_Is_Not_VRR
Footballguy
Dilfer and Johnson were "game managers" the same can't be said about Rex.
DoubleG
Footballguy
I think it's cute how every one underestimates defense and special teams.....and forgets the age old cliche: "Offense wins games, defense wins championships". I think it would be fairly easy to assemble a list of SB winners with mediocre/average QBs - B. Johnson, the Ravens, the Panthers a few years back, etc.
This_Is_Not_VRR
Footballguy
And I think when you assemble that list of SB Winners, you'll find that none of their QB's turned the ball over at the rate that Rex does.
This is the way I see it. Rex's confidence is shot right now. They need to stop calling the deep balls and let Rex dink and dunk. Rex has been awful, but the bears are winning with Defense and ST. They clinched the division and have a 2 game lead for Home Field advantage. Ride him out for a little bit. They got easy games the rest of the way. If the bears lose because of rex and he continues to play crappy, then I think they will make the change. If he starts to play like he did earlier in the season, then great.
IMO, the bears can not WIN the super bowl with Griese. I don't think he could score with the colts or chargers. Griese can win the NFC. Grossman (if he plays like he did in the begining of the season) can win the bears the super bowl. If he keeps playing like this, they aren't going far though.
So, ride him out until he starts losing games and home field advantage is in question.
IMO, the bears can not WIN the super bowl with Griese. I don't think he could score with the colts or chargers. Griese can win the NFC. Grossman (if he plays like he did in the begining of the season) can win the bears the super bowl. If he keeps playing like this, they aren't going far though.
So, ride him out until he starts losing games and home field advantage is in question.
Borat
Footballguy
I don't think anyone is underestimating defense and special teams. But I think you may be underestimating just how much a turnover-prone quarterback can kill you.Also, I didn't realize the Panthers had won a Super Bowl.
Borat
Footballguy
Seriously?
Banger
Footballguy
The funny thing is that the defense/ST seems to score more points than the offense.
So when are the Bears going to upgrade to a mediocre/average QB?
