Democratic leaders call for Omar to apologize for 'anti-Semitic tropes' (2 Viewers)

[ren hoek]

Nice deflecting of the antisemitism from the left.  Really terrible to assume the other side's motives are all bad while covering up for evils of your side.  Using apartheid rhetoric or even Nazi rhetoric like the squad does is something out of antisemetic groupls like BDS or David Duke's playbook.  

What antisemitism from the left?  Are you suggesting Bernie Sanders is palling around with a “Jew hater” as the organization you granted credibility to suggests?  

I don’t have a “side.”  This stuff against Omar is about stigmatizing dissent over US support for Israel.  It is as simple as conflating the belief in human rights for Palestinians with hatred of Jews.  

The 9/11 video Trump posted was way more inflammatory and dangerous than anything Omar has ever said, which wasn’t even remotely antisemitic.  This is trash.  

 

[jon_mx]

What antisemitism from the left?  Are you suggesting Bernie Sanders is palling around with a “Jew hater” as the organization you granted credibility to suggests?  

I don’t have a “side.”  This stuff against Omar is about stigmatizing dissent over US support for Israel.  It is as simple as conflating the belief in human rights for Palestinians with hatred of Jews.  

The 9/11 video Trump posted was way more inflammatory and dangerous than anything Omar has ever said, which wasn’t even remotely antisemitic.  This is trash.  

Certainly all criticism of Israel is not antisemitic, but most of it is.  To deny Jews the right of self-government is antisemitic.  To deny Jews the right to defend their country is antisemitic.  To compare Israel to Nazi Germany is antisemitic.  To want to boycott and apply sanctions to Israel, while ignoring far worse offenses by the surrounding hostile countries is antisemitic.  I find much of Omar rhetoric to be antisemitic.  

 

[Summer Wheat]

A politician's job is all about appearances.  She deserves what she gets here. 

Terrible look for sure not only for Omar but it made it look like she could care less about the speaker. Sad to see a woman of color disrespect another woman of color speaking.

 

[Skoo]

Her words are good enough.

She said she hates America? Is there video of this? An interview somewhere I can find?

I'm assuming you didn't just make it up.

 

[the moops]

 “And then at some point, something happened".

This means she hates America in your eyes?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Certainly all criticism of Israel is not antisemitic, but most of it is.  To deny Jews the right of self-government is antisemitic.  To deny Jews the right to defend their country is antisemitic.  To compare Israel to Nazi Germany is antisemitic.  To want to boycott and apply sanctions to Israel, while ignoring far worse offenses by the surrounding hostile countries is antisemitic.  I find much of Omar rhetoric to be antisemitic.  

I'm Jewish, i was just in Israel over Christmas break, and I disagree with virtually every word of this.  There are a lot of reasons other than antisemitism to be critical of the Israeli government.

 

[jon_mx]

I'm Jewish, i was just in Israel over Christmas break, and I disagree with virtually every word of this.  There are a lot of reasons other than antisemitism to be critical of the Israeli government.

So instead of pointing out specific things I said you disagree with, youtake issue with something I did not say.  

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

So instead of pointing out the things I said you disagree with, you point out something I did not say.  

You said "most" criticism of Israel is due to antisemitism.  That's the part I disagree with, especially among American citizens.

ETA:  I suppose I was mistaken when I said I disagree with "virtually" every word of what you wrote.  I can't find any part of your post I agree with.

 

[jon_mx]

You said "most" criticism of Israel is due to antisemitism.  That's the part I disagree with, especially among American citizens.

What in my list are you ok with?  

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

What in my list are you ok with?  

See above.  None of it.

 

[Dickies]

So instead of pointing out specific things I said you disagree with, youtake issue with something I did not say.  

You said most criticism of Israel is antisemitic.  I'm not Jewish, but my wife and her entire family are (and consequently my own kids), and they are very critical of Israel and their treatment of Palestinians.  If we went based on your characteristics of antisemitism then almost all of my wife's Jewish family would be labeled antisemitic.  

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Certainly all criticism of Israel is not antisemitic, but most of it is.  To deny Jews the right of self-government is antisemitic.  To deny Jews the right to defend their country is antisemitic.  To compare Israel to Nazi Germany is antisemitic.  To want to boycott and apply sanctions to Israel, while ignoring far worse offenses by the surrounding hostile countries is antisemitic.  I find much of Omar rhetoric to be antisemitic.  

Criticizing Israel does not mean trying to deny them the right of self-government.  

Furthermore, it is not antisemitic to disagree with Israeli policies and/or actions.

Would you consider criticism of Iran or Iraq as islamophobic? 

It is very possible to remove religion from the equation when it comes to international relations.  

 

[timschochet]

Certainly all criticism of Israel is not antisemitic, but most of it is.  To deny Jews the right of self-government is antisemitic.  To deny Jews the right to defend their country is antisemitic.  To compare Israel to Nazi Germany is antisemitic.  To want to boycott and apply sanctions to Israel, while ignoring far worse offenses by the surrounding hostile countries is antisemitic.  I find much of Omar rhetoric to be antisemitic.  

None of these things are necessarily anti-Semitic. They can be. It depends on nuance. People can also repeat anti-Semitic tropes without being deliberately anti-Semitic. 

Now Omar has made numerous anti-Zionist comments and some anti-Semitic comments and sometimes they merge and sometimes they don’t. Is she bigoted against Jews in the same way that Donald Trump is bigoted against Hispanics? Maybe. I’m not sure. If I had to guess I would say yes but I don’t completely know. (I don’t completely know about Trump either but he has a much longer history of evidence to rely on in order to reach a reasonable assumption than Ms Omar does.) 

 

[jon_mx]

You said most criticism of Israel is antisemitic.  I'm not Jewish, but my wife and her entire family are (and consequently my own kids), and they are very critical of Israel and their treatment of Palestinians.  If we went based on your characteristics of antisemitism then almost all of my wife's Jewish family would be labeled antisemitic.  

Again, do their criticisms fall into the buckets I mentioned?  Those are the types of criticisms which seem most common in the rhetoric which get airtime.  

 

[jon_mx]

See above.  None of it.

So the BDS movement is not antisemitic? 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

So the BDS movement is not antisemitic? 

I believe there are plenty of people that support BDS that are not antisemitic, yes.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

@jon_mx--I'm not sure I understand exactly what all your buckets mean.  When you say "deny Jews the right to self-government," what exactly are you referring to?

 

[jon_mx]

@jon_mx--I'm not sure I understand exactly what all your buckets mean.  When you say "deny Jews the right to self-government," what exactly are you referring to?

That would include things like calling for the elimination the Jewish state.

 

[Dickies]

Again, do their criticisms fall into the buckets I mentioned?  Those are the types of criticisms which seem most common in the rhetoric which get airtime.  

Yes, but their criticisms are more nuanced.  I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "Israel has no right to defend itself", but her family routinely criticizes Israel for their disproportionate retaliation.   

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

That would include things like calling for the elimination the Jewish state.

What about saying "Palestinians living in occupied territories should have the right to vote"?  Is that antisemitic?  Because in practical terms that would mean the elimination of the Jewish state.  But it also would mean more democracy.  

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

I just saw someone criticize Senator Mike Lee from Utah.  They must be anti-Mormon.

 

[jon_mx]

What about saying "Palestinians living in occupied territories should have the right to vote"?  Is that antisemitic?  Because in practical terms that would mean the elimination of the Jewish state.  But it also would mean more democracy.  

Having some voice is OK.  But if the ultimate goal is to take over Israel, then that voice needs to be limited.  Somehow it was OK for Arab nations to purge their countries of Jews, but Jews must be tolerant and accepting. Certainly Jews should serve a better example, but at the same time they can't be completely stupid.

 

[jon_mx]

I just saw someone criticize Senator Mike Lee from Utah.  They must be anti-Mormon.

Typical nonsensical strawman.  

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Having some voice is OK.  But if the ultimate goal is to take over Israel, then that voice needs to be limited.  Somehow it was OK for Arab nations to purge their countries of Jews, but Jews must be tolerant and accepting. Certainly Jews should serve a better example, but at the same time they can't be completely stupid.

Did you feel the same way when black people wanted to be able to vote in apartheid South Africa?  That they need to be limited so they wouldn't be able to control the country?

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Typical nonsensical strawman.  

That's not a strawman.  

ETA:  It is a strawman but I was using it as an example.  Carry on.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

"Oh you criticize Israel?  You must hate Jews".   Now that's a strawman.

 

[jon_mx]

That's not a strawman.  

It is analogy to a strawman.  Even worse. 

 

[jon_mx]

"Oh you criticize Israel?  You must hate Jews".   Now that's a strawman.

Yes that is the strawman that your analogy would have been appropriate for. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Yeah.  I'm done.

 

[Widbil83]

Good for Congressman Banks.  More members of Congress need to call out Omar’s disgusting behavior. 

An Indiana congressman who served in Afghanistan as a member of the NavyReserve spoke out on behalf of America's military veterans Wednesday after U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., claimed she suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder.

U.S. Rep. Jim Banks, a Republican, said Omar's comments were a "disgrace," calling the remarks "offensive to our nation's veterans who really do have PTSD after putting their life on the line to keep America safe."

Omar had made her remarks during a news conference with other Democrats on Wednesday, at which she said she "felt ill" because of "everything that is taking place" in the Middle East -- a reference to the recent U.S. tensions between the U.S. and Iran, including last week's U.S. airstrike in Baghdad and Iran's missile attacks early Wednesday against airbases in Iraq where U.S. service members are stationed.

"And I think every time I hear about ... I hear of conversations around war, I find myself being stricken with PTSD," she said. "And I find peace knowing that I serve with great advocates for peace and people who have shown courage against war."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-llhan-omar-responds-to-criticism-by-rep-jim-banks-over-her-stricken-with-ptsd-statement

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Wait I’m not sure I understand the outrage.

 

[ren hoek]

To deny Jews the right of self-government is antisemitic.  To deny Jews the right to defend their country is antisemitic. 

Ok- but none of those things are happening in Israel.  Jews have the right of self-government in Israel- non-Jews do not.  Jewish people can walk the streets, defend themselves and live a normal life.  Palestinian neighborhoods are blown back to the stone age.  

There's a documentary called Road to Apartheid.  It draws parallels between South Africa and Israel.  The similarities are striking.  How Palestinians are banned from driving on the same roads as Israeli Jews in Shufa.   How the apartheid walls form ghettos, & separate farmers from their land.  Women giving birth, children dying in ambulances at military checkpoints.

They kicked out the indigenous population, and refused to give them citizenship.  Children are detained in Israeli prisons at a greater disparity than they ever were in South Africa.  South African forces trained in Israel.  They looked to Israel for guidance on how to survive international condemnation. 

This understanding of Israel as a valiant defender of democracy in a troubled region, rather than a blatantly racist, supremacist, criminal regime, needs to wash away into the sands of time.  Jewish people and Palestinians both will be much better off.  

 

[zftcg]

Good for Congressman Banks.  More members of Congress need to call out Omar’s disgusting behavior. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-llhan-omar-responds-to-criticism-by-rep-jim-banks-over-her-stricken-with-ptsd-statement

What exactly do you find “disgusting” about a war refugee talkng about having PTSD? You do know that it’s not limited to veterans, right?

 

[BladeRunner]

What exactly do you find “disgusting” about a war refugee talkng about having PTSD? You do know that it’s not limited to veterans, right?

Sure.  But someone sitting in their house watching TV does not get PTSD.  It's an affront to people who really do have PTSD and minimizes what PTSD really is.

You actually think she has PTSD?  Really? 

 

[zftcg]

Sure.  But someone sitting in their house watching TV does not get PTSD.  It's an affront to people who really do have PTSD and minimizes what PTSD really is.

You actually think she has PTSD?  Really? 

She fled a civil war as a young girl and then lived in a refugee camp. I don't know what kinds of things she experienced, but if she says they gave her PTSD, I certainly have no reason to doubt her.

Also, you don't "get" PTSD watching TV. You already have it, and it can be triggered by any number of things, including many things that for other people would be totally normal daily activities.

I think when we get to the point where people are questioning someone's PTSD bona fides solely because they don't like her politics, or pretending that it is exclusively, or even mostly, limited to military veterans, it's possible that Omar isn't the one guilty of "minimizing what PTSD really is".

 

[zftcg]

'The lesson is to be hopeful': Ilhan Omar's journey from Somali refugee to US Congress.

The politician has previously spoken of her flight from Somalia, describing how militiamen prepared to attack their home in Mogadishu at midnight and had to be convinced by older female relatives to leave the family in peace.

Omar left with her family shortly after, and remembered walking through streets strewn with debris and corpses.

 

[the moops]

According to American Psychiatry Association, women are twice as likely as men to experience PTSD. And 1/11 people will be diagnosed with it in their lifetime.

Besides combat, I find It hard to imagine other traumatic events that would beore likely to result in PTSD than escaping a civil war in a country like Somalia and subsequently living in a  refugee camp for years.

 

[HellToupee]

she doesn’t have ptsd , she just made a flippant comment. It’s ok , not the end of civilization. No need to circle the wagons

 

[Snorkelson]

she doesn’t have ptsd , she just made a flippant comment. It’s ok , not the end of civilization. No need to circle the wagons

Says you, dr. Toupee.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Really just a stupid comment by Banks.  He should apologize and move on.  Unfortunately, however, too many see apologizing as a weakness.

 

[Summer Wheat]

"Oh you criticize Israel?  You must hate Jews".   Now that's a strawman.

I don`t follow Omar but does she criticize other countries like Russia, Iran, Syria, Yeman equally? 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

I don`t follow Oma but does she criticize other countries like Russia, Iran, Syria, Yeman equally? 

Beats me. I don’t follow her either.   She’s a first term member of the house from a district that I don’t live in.  

 

[jon_mx]

Beats me. I don’t follow her either.   She’s a first term member of the house from a district that I don’t live in.  

Without googling her, I would wager $100 she hasn't.  

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Without googling her, I would wager $100 she hasn't.  

Ok

 

[mcintyre1]

Beats me. I don’t follow her either.   She’s a first term member of the house from a district that I don’t live in.  

Without googling her, I would wager $100 she hasn't.  

I'm bored so I'll do some googling for you about those countries and Omar, not sure what you all mean by "does she criticize other countries like Russia, Iran, Syria, Yeman equally?" though (as far as I'm aware, there aren't significant lobbies for those countries for her to have criticized re: influence in our government).

Saudi Arabia / UAE (re: Yemen, Sudan, Libya, etc)

"How can we make a decision to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, knowing that they have been part of causing one of the most atrocious humanitarian crises in Yemen, when we know that they have a hand in what's happening right now in Sudan, what's happening in Libya, and the list can go on and on and on," she says.

"Our alliedship with Saudi Arabia and the Emirates is immoral. I believe that it is one of the most absurd alliedships; it doesn't fit with any of our values. When we think about what is in the interest of our national security, entrusting them to help us with that is like trusting a thief to watch over your shop. We know that they can't be trusted in that process."

Russia: 

"This president said he didn't see any problem in having a foreign, hostile government [Russia] intervene in our elections. He didn't understand how that could be a problem ... We do not accept information that is going to change the trajectory of our elections, from hostile governments."

Israel / Iran / Saudi Arabia:

“[RE: Israeli/Palestinian situation] By having an equal approach to dealing with both. Most of the things that have been aggravating to me is that we have had a policy that makes one superior to the other,” Omar responded. “And we mask it with a conversation about justice and a two-state solution. When you have policies that clearly prioritize one over the other.”

When Omar was pushed to clarify, she added, “I mean just our relationship with the Israeli government and the Israeli state. And so when I see Israel institute laws that recognize it as a Jewish state and does not recognize the other religions that are living in it  and we still uphold it as a democracy in the Middle East, I almost chuckle because I know that if, you know, we, we, we, we see that in any other society we would criticize it."

"We would call it out," Omar continued. "We do that to Iran, to any other place that sort of upholds its religion. And I see that now in Saudi Arabia and so I am aggravated truly in those contradictions."

 

[parasaurolophus]

I believe there are plenty of people that support BDS that are not antisemitic, yes.

Then they are ignorant and dont know anything about bds. 

 

[Da Guru]

Muslim woman from Iraq to challenge Omar.

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) – A new Republican challenger to Rep. Ilhan Omar is, like her, a woman, a Muslim and a refugee.

Dalia Al-Aqidi announced this week her campaign for Minnesota’s 5th Congressional District. In a campaign video, she criticized Omar for “sowing the seeds of division” in the country.

Omar, who was born in a refugee camp in Kenya and came to the U.S. as a child, was one of the first Muslim women elected to Congress in 2016, winning the 5th District.  Since then, she’s become a prominent critic of President Donald Trump.

Al-Aqidi was born in Iraq and fled the regime of Saddam Hussein. In the U.S., she worked as a journalist, covering the White House as a political correspondent.

On her campaign website, Al-Aqidi describes herself as a proud Muslim who sought a better life in America. She says the difference between her and Omar is that  she has championed the United States, Omar’s rhetoric and comments have been harmful for Minnesota and the United States.

 

[zftcg]

Muslim woman from Iraq to challenge Omar.

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) – A new Republican challenger to Rep. Ilhan Omar is, like her, a woman, a Muslim and a refugee.

Dalia Al-Aqidi announced this week her campaign for Minnesota’s 5th Congressional District. In a campaign video, she criticized Omar for “sowing the seeds of division” in the country.

Omar, who was born in a refugee camp in Kenya and came to the U.S. as a child, was one of the first Muslim women elected to Congress in 2016, winning the 5th District.  Since then, she’s become a prominent critic of President Donald Trump.

Al-Aqidi was born in Iraq and fled the regime of Saddam Hussein. In the U.S., she worked as a journalist, covering the White House as a political correspondent.

On her campaign website, Al-Aqidi describes herself as a proud Muslim who sought a better life in America. She says the difference between her and Omar is that  she has championed the United States, Omar’s rhetoric and comments have been harmful for Minnesota and the United States.

Interesting. I suspect Omar could be vulnerable to a challenge in the primary, but probably not in the general, as it’s a heavily Democratic district. Also, I’d be curious to know this challenger’s view of Trump, considering he doesn’t believe Iraqi refugees like her should even be allowed in the country

 

[ren hoek]

Omar tweeted this, which I think is amazing: https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1214050618152833024

It is so tiresome how her honest criticism of the military empire that has hollowed out our country, sold out your children's future, and destroyed the world is conflated with being 'anti-American.'  

 

[squistion]

Muslim woman from Iraq to challenge Omar.

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) – A new Republican challenger to Rep. Ilhan Omar is, like her, a woman, a Muslim and a refugee.

Dalia Al-Aqidi announced this week her campaign for Minnesota’s 5th Congressional District. In a campaign video, she criticized Omar for “sowing the seeds of division” in the country.

Omar, who was born in a refugee camp in Kenya and came to the U.S. as a child, was one of the first Muslim women elected to Congress in 2016, winning the 5th District.  Since then, she’s become a prominent critic of President Donald Trump.

Al-Aqidi was born in Iraq and fled the regime of Saddam Hussein. In the U.S., she worked as a journalist, covering the White House as a political correspondent.

On her campaign website, Al-Aqidi describes herself as a proud Muslim who sought a better life in America. She says the difference between her and Omar is that  she has championed the United States, Omar’s rhetoric and comments have been harmful for Minnesota and the United States.

This seems to be from the Republican playbook as to how to defeat a minority Democratic candidate likely to win election (run somebody who appears to be just like them and no one will notice the difference with the vote hopefully being split between the two).

Classic example is in 2004, when the Illinois Republican State Central Committee chose former Diplomat Alan Keyes to oppose Obama, replacing Jack Ryan as the Republican candidate (it didn't work as Obama ended up winning by 43% of the vote). 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_Senate_election_in_Illinois