Democratic leaders call for Omar to apologize for 'anti-Semitic tropes' (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

We've all seen what the nutjobs in Minneapolis have given us in terms of nightly entertainment/horror, now they get to do it at the federal level. Omar. You can't make #### like this up. Why not just fly the flag upside down and burn it while hollering "Allahu Akbar" while you're at it.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

AOC?

stats for AOC's district

 

[mcintyre1]

Oh great, another time where I guess I'm supposed to have been angered by something my Rep said when it's just something that I (and all of my friends who live in her district) would agree with. Yawn.

 

[mcintyre1]

By the way, where's the Betty McCollum thread?

I'm sure there's some reason why the 10 term white female Rep. from St. Paul who has consistently and loudly denounced Israeli human rights abuses and political influence has been largely ignored her entire career, while the young, black, Muslim, immigrant Rep. from Minneapolis is a constant focus of the right wing. I just wish I could put my finger on it.

 

[jm192]

By the way, where's the Betty McCollum thread?

I'm sure there's some reason why the 10 term white female Rep. from St. Paul who has consistently and loudly denounced Israeli human rights abuses and political influence has been largely ignored her entire career, while the young, black, Muslim, immigrant Rep. from Minneapolis is a constant focus of the right wing. I just wish I could put my finger on it.

LOLZ.  Whataboutism amarite?!  Why ever talk about anything Omar did when we can just point out things other people did?!  No need to talk about this at all.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

By the way, where's the Betty McCollum thread?

I'm sure there's some reason why the 10 term white female Rep. from St. Paul who has consistently and loudly denounced Israeli human rights abuses and political influence has been largely ignored her entire career, while the young, black, Muslim, immigrant Rep. from Minneapolis is a constant focus of the right wing. I just wish I could put my finger on it.

Criticism of Israel isn't anti-Semitic or even necessarily bad. 

Is this person casually equating the US and Taliban?  Because if so, I want to make sure to criticize her too.  Thanks for bringing her to my attention.

 

[jm192]

Oh great, another time where I guess I'm supposed to have been angered by something my Rep said when it's just something that I (and all of my friends who live in her district) would agree with. Yawn.

So you agree that the United States and Israel belong under the same sweeping umbrella as Hamas and the Taliban?  That's a pretty awful take, but you do you man.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

So you agree that the United States and Israel belong under the same sweeping umbrella as Hamas and the Taliban? 

A sweeping umbrella could be useful if my patio is dirty and it’s raining.

 

[jm192]

Criticism of Israel isn't anti-Semitic or even necessarily bad. 

Is this person casually equating the US and Taliban?  Because if so, I want to make sure to criticize her too.  Thanks for bringing her to my attention.

This.  It's ok to say Israel did bad.  Comparing Israel to a terrorist organization--kind of indefensible.

 

[jm192]

By the way, where's the Betty McCollum thread?

I'm sure there's some reason why the 10 term white female Rep. from St. Paul who has consistently and loudly denounced Israeli human rights abuses and political influence has been largely ignored her entire career, while the young, black, Muslim, immigrant Rep. from Minneapolis is a constant focus of the right wing. I just wish I could put my finger on it.

Ooooh I get it.  It's because we're all a bunch of racists, right? Because saying Israel does bad things and saying their the same as a terrorist organization are close enough to identical.

I'd be offended, but I realize the name of the game for some of you is "My side right.  My side never wrong.  Deflect and whataboutisms."

 

[BladeRunner]

Ooooh I get it.  It's because we're all a bunch of racists, right? Because saying Israel does bad things and saying their the same as a terrorist organization are close enough to identical.

I'd be offended, but I realize the name of the game for some of you is "My side right.  My side never wrong.  Deflect and whataboutisms."

Yep. 

Democrats just have to get the old "YOU'RE RACIST" in every single time, whether implicitly or explicitly.  It's what they do to people they disagree with. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Oh great, another time where I guess I'm supposed to have been angered by something my Rep said when it's just something that I (and all of my friends who live in her district) would agree with. Yawn.

Yikes.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I read it very differently than Ivan -- particularly given that she included the context she intended in the video where she's asking the SOS about war crimes. 

i.e. we don't have to wonder what the comparison was -- she told us.  It wasn't cheating on your wife vs beating peaceful marchers.  It's war crimes vs war crimes.

And when I first saw it I thought she was saying, "Why should the US or Israel be absolved of war crimes if those crimes are similar to those of the Taliban or Hamas?"

Which seems like a pretty fair question.  Now maybe you don't think the US has committed war crimes.  Maybe you think it's OK if the US commits war crimes.  But that's a different argument than the one people are having with her right now.

 

[rockaction]

I read it very differently, too. I am a member of Team Blue. Therefore, I will defend anything she says on a message board when my own intraparty Speaker Of The House condemns her and invites her to clarify her statement like the opposition party asked her to do, even given the current state of American politics.

But please, let's all argue that this was relatively inoffensive.

 

[mcintyre1]

I read it very differently than Ivan -- particularly given that she included the context she intended in the video where she's asking the SOS about war crimes. 

i.e. we don't have to wonder what the comparison was -- she told us.  It wasn't cheating on your wife vs beating peaceful marchers.  It's war crimes vs war crimes.

And when I first saw it I thought she was saying, "Why should the US or Israel be absolved of war crimes if those crimes are similar to those of the Taliban or Hamas?"

Which seems like a pretty fair question.  Now maybe you don't think the US has committed war crimes.  Maybe you think it's OK if the US commits war crimes.  But that's a different argument than the one people are having with her right now.

Exactly my point with the "Yawn" comment. Thank you.

War crimes are war crimes, and the good ol' USA is guilty of plenty, by my reckoning. I see absolutely nothing wrong with my Representative's statement, despite the pearl clutching of right wingers and centrists. If you don't like what someone shows you in the mirror, maybe work to change it rather than call them a monster. 

 

[jm192]

Exactly my point with the "Yawn" comment. Thank you.

War crimes are war crimes, and the good ol' USA is guilty of plenty, by my reckoning. I see absolutely nothing wrong with my Representative's statement, despite the pearl clutching of right wingers and centrists. If you don't like what someone shows you in the mirror, maybe work to change it rather than call them a monster. 

Lol.  My side blue.  My side good.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I read it very differently, too. I am a member of Team Blue. Therefore, I will defend anything she says on a message board when my own intraparty Speaker Of The House condemns her and invites her to clarify her statement like the opposition party asked her to do, even given the current state of American politics.

But please, let's all argue that this was relatively inoffensive.

So you believe her point was to say, with no nuance at all, "The United States and Israel are the equivalent of Hamas and the Taliban."

 

[BladeRunner]

So you believe her point was to say, with no nuance at all, "The United States and Israel are the equivalent of Hamas and the Taliban."

That's exactly what she meant.

I mean, she said it out loud.  Not sure why you guys keep trying to parse her words.  How about we take the words she spoke at face value?  There is no nuance here.

 

[BladeRunner]

Exactly my point with the "Yawn" comment. Thank you.

War crimes are war crimes, and the good ol' USA is guilty of plenty, by my reckoning. I see absolutely nothing wrong with my Representative's statement, despite the pearl clutching of right wingers and centrists. If you don't like what someone shows you in the mirror, maybe work to change it rather than call them a monster. 

Wow.  Absolutely disgusting. Spoken like a true keyboard Warrior sitting in the comforts of a democracy.

Par for the course though.

 

[rockaction]

So you believe her point was to say, with no nuance at all, "The United States and Israel are the equivalent of Hamas and the Taliban."

It's not the point to say they're equivalent. To lump two democracies in with terrorist organizations when it comes to human rights is breathtaking both in its gall and in its stupidity. The head of your own party would like a confirmation about what she said. It's pretty cut-and-dried lousy.

I'm not trying to divine her "nuance." I spend way too much ####### time on this board parsing obviousness to obtuseness.

 

[timschochet]

What she said is awful, inexcusable. She deserves all the condemnation she’s getting. 
 

But there is a trap here that we’re falling into, which is that someone who speaks for the Palestinians says something completely outrageous, and everyone stops and condemns it, and we’re no closer to addressing the crisis over there. In order to address it properly, we’re going to have to listen to Palestinian voices so matter how outrageous and extreme they are. 

 

[jm192]

So you believe her point was to say, with no nuance at all, "The United States and Israel are the equivalent of Hamas and the Taliban."

When you put the 4 of them in the same sentence.  That's what you're doing.  

As @IvanKaramazov said, it's a Motte and Bailey.  Nancy Pelosi thought it was something that needed to be walked back.  But message board warriors gotta defend their side.

 

[jm192]

What she said is awful, inexcusable. She deserves all the condemnation she’s getting. 
 

But there is a trap here that we’re falling into, which is that someone who speaks for the Palestinians says something completely outrageous, and everyone stops and condemns it, and we’re no closer to addressing the crisis over there. In order to address it properly, we’re going to have to listen to Palestinian voices so matter how outrageous and extreme they are. 

Nope.  

The trap we're falling into is losing track of what we're discussing.  Check the thread title.  This is a thread about Omar saying bad things.  So, ya know, we're discussing that.  

I think people lump Hamas and Palestine into being 1 in the same.  That's not the case.  We should listen to Palestenian voices.  We should not listen to terrorist voices.  We need to separate Hamas from Palestine.  It's like--you can think Republicans are bad without thinking everyone in America is bad.

 

[jm192]

Exactly my point with the "Yawn" comment. Thank you.

War crimes are war crimes, and the good ol' USA is guilty of plenty, by my reckoning. I see absolutely nothing wrong with my Representative's statement, despite the pearl clutching of right wingers and centrists. If you don't like what someone shows you in the mirror, maybe work to change it rather than call them a monster. 

LOL .  Dems can do nothing wrong.  Anytime anyone on team blue makes a mistake, you boys can't wait to type "Pearl clutching right wingers."  I know you're not capable of an honest conversation the second you resort to pearl clutching.  

It's a Motte and Bailey fallacy, and you're just repeating it.  

Israel, American, Hamas, and the Taliban are mentioned in 1 group--indicating they're all the same.  That's the extreme position.  Then we get into "they've all committed war crimes."  That's the modest position.  And the US and Israel have both committed war crimes.  And since I can't disprove that--it's just accepted that the US is the same as a terrorist organization. 

So when pressed--you shift to the modest position.  You defend the modest position and she defends the modest position.  

And then you both act like you're right on both since the modest point wasn't attacked.  

But a US rep lumping our nation in with terrorist group bothers me.  And it bothers others--including Pelosi.  But she's probably just clutching her pearls LOL RIGHT WINGER AMARITE?!?!

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

The head of your own party would like a confirmation about what she said. 

The reason Pelosi critiqued her has everything to do with politics and nothing to do with the merits of Omar’s statement.

Put me in the same camp with @Dinsy Ejotuzand @mcintyre1.  Putting multiple things in one sentence doesn’t make them equivalent in every respect.  

 

[jm192]

The reason Pelosi critiqued her has everything to do with politics and nothing to do with the merits of Omar’s statement.

Put me in the same camp with @Dinsy Ejotuzand @mcintyre1.  Putting multiple things in one sentence doesn’t make them equivalent in every respect.  

LOL.  Even when the Speaker calls it, you guys explain it away.  It really is impressive.

 

[timschochet]

Nope.  

The trap we're falling into is losing track of what we're discussing.  Check the thread title.  This is a thread about Omar saying bad things.  So, ya know, we're discussing that.  

I think people lump Hamas and Palestine into being 1 in the same.  That's not the case.  We should listen to Palestenian voices.  We should not listen to terrorist voices.  We need to separate Hamas from Palestine.  It's like--you can think Republicans are bad without thinking everyone in America is bad.

But she’s not Hamas. She’s not a terrorist. 
Virtually any moderate Palestinian you listen to is going to say the same thing she did: condemning Hamas and Israel at the same time. That’s about the best you’re gonna get from the moderate ones (the extreme ones will defend Hamas and condemn Israel.) That’s the best we have to work with. Doesn’t make it right but we need to work with these people to solve anything. 

 

[jm192]

But she’s not Hamas. She’s not a terrorist. 
Virtually any moderate Palestinian you listen to is going to say the same thing she did: condemning Hamas and Israel at the same time. That’s about the best you’re gonna get from the moderate ones (the extreme ones will defend Hamas and condemn Israel.) That’s the best we have to work with. Doesn’t make it right but we need to work with these people to solve anything. 

I wasn't calling Omar a terrorist.  When you say the most extreme Palestenian voices--I think the most extreme palestenians are probably part of Hamas.  I'm not interested in bringing Hamas to that conversation.  

I think we should include Palestinians in the conversation, and...I think we do. 

Are you of the belief that President Biden and our leadership aren't listening to the Palestinians?  Biden said he talked to both sides multiples times over during this last conflict.  

But again--we're in the Omar thread.  This is about Omar putting her foot in her mouth.  And it feels like a bit of a distraction to say "we need to listen to Palestenians though."  Sure, we do.  I think we already do that.  But since this is the Omar thread--it makes a lot of sense to talk about Omar in here, ya know?

 

[tonydead]

Exactly my point with the "Yawn" comment. Thank you.

War crimes are war crimes, and the good ol' USA is guilty of plenty, by my reckoning. I see absolutely nothing wrong with my Representative's statement, despite the pearl clutching of right wingers and centrists. If you don't like what someone shows you in the mirror, maybe work to change it rather than call them a monster. 

Maybe you should move to Damascus, Pakistan or Syria if you love it so much and hate America.  

 

[tonydead]

So you believe her point was to say, with no nuance at all, "The United States and Israel are the equivalent of Hamas and the Taliban."

Yes, absolutely.  This crazy woman has a history, we know exactly what she means.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I dont have the greatest notebook, but iirc @mcintyre1 was one of the "they have insurance" guys too.

 

[Rich Conway]

The reason Pelosi critiqued her has everything to do with politics and nothing to do with the merits of Omar’s statement.

This is certainly true.  Just like McCarthy and McConnell don't really believe Trump was innocent of inciting an insurrection, but they say he is because of politics.

Now, I rather suspect that Pelosi disagrees with Omar's statement as well, but even if she agreed with it wholeheartedly, she's a savvy enough politician to know that she had to be critical of it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

So you believe her point was to say, with no nuance at all, "The United States and Israel are the equivalent of Hamas and the Taliban."

Yes, I do think that's what she meant.

 

[AAABatteries]

Sounds like a Ren Hoek post

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

So you believe her point was to say, with no nuance at all, "The United States and Israel are the equivalent of Hamas and the Taliban."

Yes, I do think that's what she meant.

“It sucks to lose a baseball game, whether your opponent is the New York Yankees, the college national champion, or my kid’s little league team.”

1) Do you think the speaker of this sentence is saying that his kid’s little league team is the same as the Yankees?

2) If not, what do you see as the difference between this and Omar’s tweet?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

2) If not, what do you see as the difference between this and Omar’s tweet?

Omar has a long history of this sort of stuff.  She lost the benefit of the doubt a long, long time ago.

When Trump says something crazy, you probably roll your eyes when people try really hard to parse it.  Same thing here.

 

[AAABatteries]

“It sucks to lose a baseball game, whether your opponent is the New York Yankees, the college national champion, or my kid’s little league team.”

1) Do you think the speaker of this sentence is saying that his kid’s little league team is the same as the Yankees?

2) If not, what do you see as the difference between this and Omar’s tweet?

I know this was directed at IK but if the person making this claim had previous comments that were negative about the Yankees, their players and was also in MLB leadership then I could see it coming across poorly and their being bad optics.

The bigger problem here is a problem we have in the PSF - we argue as much or more about individuals than we do topics.  The topic of war atrocities is an ok one to have and worthwhile but arguing about what Omar says here is kind of pointless, IMO.  I know it’s a thread about her and I agree with those saying the optics on this is at best bad.  She does make comments that come across as slamming the US.  But I do think at times the US has made mistakes in wars, sometimes many.  But the debate about that gets lost because of sides and attempts to discredit or support her.

 

[rockaction]

What she did is actually like saying, "Oh, those Yankees. They play like my son's little league team and that other sandlot squad down the block."

She's clearly making false equivalencies and does so frequently. It's her schtick to do that.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

She lost the benefit of the doubt a long, long time ago.

This seems like a fair point.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Omar has a long history of this sort of stuff.  She lost the benefit of the doubt a long, long time ago.

When Trump says something crazy, you probably roll your eyes when people try really hard to parse it.  Same thing here.

Thanks, this actually does help me understand a lot.

You are right that if I agreed with you about Omar generally I'd be more likely to agree with you in this instance.  In my personal view, Omar's public statements during the entirety of her political career have been willfully misinterpreted by folks that disagree with her views.  That's the "long history" I'm familiar with, and I read the outrage about this tweet as consistent with that pattern.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

a Monday tweet from Omar that asserted: “We must have the same level of accountability and justice for all victims of crimes against humanity. We have seen unthinkable atrocities committed by the U.S., Hamas, Israel, Afghanistan, and the Taliban.”

Included in the tweet was a video of Omar questioning Secretary of State Antony Blinken about the prosecution of "alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity," though she did not specifically compare the U.S. to terrorist organizations in the video.

I don't see how the above tweet is analogous to this:

What she did is actually like saying, "Oh, those Yankees. They play like my son's little league team and that other sandlot squad down the block."

 

[AAABatteries]

I don't see how the above tweet is analogous to this:

We could come up with a million analogies but I’d rather ask this - do you think the US has committed atrocities equivalent to Hamas and the Taliban?  If no, can you understand how someone could interpret her comment as equating them?  If yes, then my assumption would be that folks will agree to disagree with that.

 

[Summer Wheat]

We've all seen what the nutjobs in Minneapolis have given us in terms of nightly entertainment/horror, now they get to do it at the federal level. Omar. You can't make #### like this up. Why not just fly the flag upside down and burn it while hollering "Allahu Akbar" while you're at it.

I dont think that will happen.  Omar paid her husbands firm 2.7 million during her campaign so she is enjoying reaping the $$$$$$.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

We could come up with a million analogies but I’d rather ask this - do you think the US has committed atrocities equivalent to Hamas and the Taliban?  If no, can you understand how someone could interpret her comment as equating them?  If yes, then my assumption would be that folks will agree to disagree with that.

I can see it because it’s happening in this thread and elsewhere but I don’t think it’s the fairest interpretation of her tweet.

 

[jm192]

Another important point:

A lot of you guys are defending Omar saying "she said they all have committed war crimes, what's wrong with that?"

Do Terrorist organizations commit "war crimes?"  They're terrorists.  They commit acts of terror.  If someone goes to war with them, is it your belief that they adopt accepted principles of warfare?  Of course not.  They're still terrorists.  They didn't have regard for human life before.  

So while America and Israel have committed war crimes, it's far from accurate to say that Hamas are committing "war crimes."  Terrorists commit acts of terror.  And listing them in the same sentence and saying "they all commit war crimes" is a really bad false equivalence.  

 

[Ghost Rider]

With the 20th anniversary of 9-11 coming up, get ready for Omar, AOC and their squad to make the talk about it all about them as they cry about how talking about that tragic event in American history is riling up anti-Muslim hate. You can almost set your watch to it. 

 

[ekbeats]

With the 20th anniversary of 9-11 coming up, get ready for Omar, AOC and their squad to make the talk about it all about them as they cry about how talking about that tragic event in American history is riling up anti-Muslim hate. You can almost set your watch to it. 

Just them?  You’ll be hearing it from half the people in here as well.

 

[parasaurolophus]

If i posted that "The flu has killed far more people than covid in the last 100 years" in the covid thread how many lefties would argue that I was not making a comparison to the flu? 

 

[BladeRunner]

If i posted that "The flu has killed far more people than covid in the last 100 years" in the covid thread how many lefties would argue that I was not making a comparison to the flu? 

ALL of them.

And then they would call you racist for implying that it was China's fault.

 

[Juxtatarot]

If i posted that "The flu has killed far more people than covid in the last 100 years" in the covid thread how many lefties would argue that I was not making a comparison to the flu? 

Both this hypothetical and her tweet come off as ill-conceived, knee-jerk statements. Both can we walked back but, overall, look pretty silly.