Democratic Woman Attends Trump Rally - Thoughts On Her Article? (1 Viewer)

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I find it strange that people are all in on crazy Russian collusion stories, pee tapes, quid pro quo, Trump is Hitler and every anti-Trump tweet ever but, y'know, this article about a woman' attending a Trump rally and being surprised at what she found is just impossible to believe.

Crazy times we live in.  I think this article is genuine and right on the nose.  I don't know any of you left-leaning posters, but I can guarantee that I would go out and have a beer with you ANY day of the week regardless if you vote for Biden, Sanders, Warren, etc...   I would never treat someone as a leper because of their politics like a lot on the left do.

That's MY guarantee to you. 

Where do you live?  If you're ever in the Washington D.C. area I'll have a beer.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks. For sure there are lots of quotes with Trump saying negative things about Lawmakers.

That's why I was looking for a few quotes with what you were saying when you say Trump "describes me as a democrat, hating America and hating American values. Pretty regularly."

I'm not trying to argue. I'm trying to understand what you mean when you say he regularly says you, or regular voting people like me and you, hate America and we hate American values. 

Asking again @Jackstraw

Do you have some quotes with links about what you're talking about? Not lawmakers. But "regular" Democratic voting people like me and you. Thanks.

 

[Mister CIA]

Thanks. For sure there are lots of quotes with Trump saying negative things about Lawmakers.

That's why I was looking for a few quotes with what you were saying when you say Trump "describes me as a democrat, hating America and hating American values. Pretty regularly."

I'm not trying to argue. I'm trying to understand what you mean when you say he regularly says you, or regular voting people like me and you, hate America and we hate American values. 

Asking again @Jackstraw

Do you have some quotes with links about what you're talking about? Not lawmakers. But "regular" Democratic voting people like me and you. Thanks.

Your prose is like quicksand.  Are you asking Jack Straw for links to quotes where Trump, or Trump supporters, say mean things about Democrats?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Your prose is like quicksand.  Are you asking Jack Straw for links to quotes where Trump, or Trump supporters, say mean things about Democrats?

Prose and quicksand? Thanks GB. Not sure I've ever had that one.

For "Are you asking Jack Straw for links to quotes where Trump, or Trump supporters, say mean things about Democrats?", I'm asking for neither of those things. I"m asking for examples of what Jackstraw actually said. 

@Jackstraw said Trump "describes me as a democrat, hating America and hating American values. Pretty regularly."

So I could be sure I understood him clearly, I asked him repeatedly for links and quotes where Trump has regularly done what he says and described regular Democratic voters like him (and me) this way. It caught my attention as I identify as a Democrat. I vote mostly Democrat locally and have voted for the Democrat president since Bill Clinton ran. And while I may not agree with him, I don't feel like Trump "regularly" describes me as hating America. 

 

[timschochet]

. And while I may not agree with him, I don't feel like Trump "regularly" describes me as hating America. 

I don’t either. My impression (I don’t have links to back this up) is that Trump, for all his bombast, is careful to distinguish between the leadership and the folks: it’s Democratic politicians who hate America, not Democratic voters. It’s the FBI and CIA leadership who are members of the Deep State, not the rank and file, it’s the leadership of the media, not every member of the media, etc, etc 

Of course the problem with this is it’s elastic: he can stretch it to include anyone he suddenly doesn’t like, and often does. 

 

[Mile High]

it’s Democratic politicians who hate America, not Democratic voters

Who voted in these Democratic America hating politicians? 

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don’t either. My impression (I don’t have links to back this up) is that Trump, for all his bombast, is careful to distinguish between the leadership and the folks: it’s Democratic politicians who hate America, not Democratic voters. It’s the FBI and CIA leadership who are members of the Deep State, not the rank and file, it’s the leadership of the media, not every member of the media, etc, etc 

Of course the problem with this is it’s elastic: he can stretch it to include anyone he suddenly doesn’t like, and often does. 

That's been my take on it as well.

It's why it caught my eye to hear @Jackstraw make the strong claim that Trump regularly accused him or regular Democrat voting citizens of hating America. 

 

[Summer Wheat]

I don’t either. My impression (I don’t have links to back this up) is that Trump, for all his bombast, is careful to distinguish between the leadership and the folks: it’s Democratic politicians who hate America, not Democratic voters. It’s the FBI and CIA leadership who are members of the Deep State, not the rank and file, it’s the leadership of the media, not every member of the media, etc, etc 

Of course the problem with this is it’s elastic: he can stretch it to include anyone he suddenly doesn’t like, and often does. 

This is where I have trouble with politics in general and struggle being a democrat or actually just being labeled at all.  Over the years Bill Clinton, Hillary, Obama, Shumer, have all spoken out about illegal immigration and been as harsh or worse than Trump.   Why is Trump attacked and the others never were?   Then all we heard from the dems during the impeachment trial is how sacred the constitution and federals laws are yet they refuse to enforce some and pick and choose what ones to enforce.

I will never vote for Trump but I will have a hard time voting dem this time around.  I am so ready and I think many people in their 30s are so ready for a viable third party. I feel both parties have lost their way.

 

[Mile High]

That's been my take on it as well.

It's why it caught my eye to hear @Jackstraw make the strong claim that Trump regularly accused him or regular Democrat voting citizens of hating America. 

You don't hate America, you just vote in and support people who do.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Thanks. Understood. Can you give me a specific quote of what you mean on this? Obviously, he says a lot of negative things about Democrats. To make sure I understand you, can you give me one or two (I don't need 10) quotes? Thanks. 

In defense of Jack (“He villifies and dehumanizes anyone that stands in his way. Regardless of party.“) or just in general I’ll give this a shot. This is Trump’s last speech, at CPAC, but there are summaries from every speech that contain demagogic bits like this:

>>>...Trump denounces the "hate-filled left-wing mob," then says he has promised to be nice today, "but only a fool is nice when they treat you so badly."...<<<

>>>Trump bashes Mitt Romney for his impeachment vote and calls him a "lowlife."<<<

>>>Trump says he's getting rid of bad people in government who are "not people that love our country."<<<

- Actually the way these run together as one section of the speech it seems more like a five minutes of hate piece purposely filled in as stock.

 

[Joe Summer]

Joe, you are correct that Trump has never said "I accuse regular Democrat voting citizens of hating America."

But he doesn't have to.

He employs rhetoric, guilt-by-association, and logical fallacy techniques to push the theme that Democrats hate America, without actually saying it in those words -- which gives him and his supporters a measure of insulation from the awful and divisive ideas that he promotes.

For example, on 9/3/2019, Trump re-tweeted the following quote from Lou Dobbs:"...Inexplicably and without foundation, they choose to hate America. The Democrats have truly become the party of hate."

But since Trump didn't actually say it himself, he can distance himself from the sentiment. (But why retweet it if he didn't agree with it?)

There's also this tweet from 7/15/2019 where Trump says that the Democrats are "...endorsing Socialism, hate of Israel and the USA!" He's not making a distinction between Democrat members of Congress or 'regular Democrat voting citizens'. But the quote is vague enough that he can claim plausible deniability when pressed on the issue.

Another example is in this speech from his rally in Dallas on 10/17/2019:

"The radical Democrats want to destroy America, as we know it. They want to indoctrinate our children and teach them that America is a sinful wicked nation. You see that happening all the time and I know it from personal experience what they want to teach your kids, not good. They come home, mommy, daddy, this is what I learned, and you're going, oh no, don't tell me. Let's get them into another school fast. They want to disarm law-abiding citizens, they want to take your guns away [Audience shouts "Boo"] and they want to win so far left judges to shred our Constitution. It's not happening. They want to tear down symbols of faith and drive Christians and religious believers from the public square. They want to silence your voices on social media and they want the government to censor, muzzle and shut down conservative voices. You know that. If they didn't hate our country, they wouldn't be doing this to our country."

Once again, Trump and his supporters can claim plausible deniability by saying that he was ONLY referring to Democrats in Congress, and that he was ONLY referring to the subset of those Democrats in Congress who are radical, and that he was ONLY referring to the still smaller subset of those radical Democrats in Congress who happen to also want to indoctrinate children and disarm citizens.

But do you think that the audience interpreted his quote in that way, or do you think his audience believes that Trump was referring to Democrats in a broader sense?

When Trump says "If they didn't hate our country, they wouldn't be doing this", the word "this" refers to, in part, supporting elements of gun control and separation of church & state -- issues which happen to be supported by the majority of regular Democrat voting citizens. So how is someone like @Jackstraw supposed to feel if he also supports those elements of gun control and separation of church & state? Is it not unreasonable to conclude that Trump also thinks that people like Jackstraw hate America, or that Trump wants his audience to think so?

 

[kface]

She's right in my books.  The dems need to realize

1. you can deal with immigration and run on it without being racist

2. people are at loss for a world that is leaving them behind and cozying up to bankers is not the answer

3. people want american to be number 1.  start saying it and start telling people how you are going to deliver on it

Trump captured what was a true concern of the people.  He weaponized it but he captured.  Capture the same thing and you win easily...

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

She's right in my books.  The dems need to realize

1. you can deal with immigration and run on it without being racist

2. people are at loss for a world that is leaving them behind and cozying up to bankers is not the answer

3. people want american to be number 1.  start saying it and start telling people how you are going to deliver on it

Trump captured what was a true concern of the people.  He weaponized it but he captured.  Capture the same thing and you win easily...

The social fissures underlying Trump were always real.

 

[kface]

The social fissures underlying Trump were always real.

They are in other countries as well...obama did little to address it and i get why it's so easy to blame it on 'immigrants'.  

 

[kface]

this is a gurantee winning platform right now and I can't believe people can't see it

1. strengthen the border 

2. make healthcare affordable 

3. raise up the middle class by bring manufacturing back home

4. deal with the environment

5. clean up government - term limits, limits on connections between governments and businesses, full disclosure etc..

don't run on anything else.  just say those 5 things over and over again

 

[Joe Summer]

killface said:

this is a gurantee winning platform right now and I can't believe people can't see it

1. strengthen the border

2. make healthcare affordable

3. raise up the middle class by bring manufacturing back home

4. deal with the environment

5. clean up government - term limits, limits on connections between governments and businesses, full disclosure etc..

Trump has had 3 years and he's done none of those things, except possibly #1 (but he has failed to follow through on his primary promise of building a wall and having Mexico pay for it).

 

[kface]

Trump has had 3 years and he's done none of those things, except possibly #1 (but he has failed to follow through on his primary promise of building a wall and having Mexico pay for it).

That's the thing with politics and the american public is you don't have to do any of those things, you can do the complete opposite...you just have to say you are doing those things

 

[huthut]

this is a gurantee winning platform right now and I can't believe people can't see it

1. strengthen the border 

2. make healthcare affordable 

3. raise up the middle class by bring manufacturing back home

4. deal with the environment

5. clean up government - term limits, limits on connections between governments and businesses, full disclosure etc..

don't run on anything else.  just say those 5 things over and over again

I agree that would be a platform that would get a lot of support, but I am not sure how you would address each point.

1) Lots of different opinions - some don't see a problem, others see a severe problem. Strengthen will also mean different things to different people. IMO this is kind of a red herring and does not really belong with the rest of the bullet points that actually impact people's lives.

2) Essentially a democratic party platform, with different ideas how to make it work. I feel anything to cut out the middlemen making extreme profits (insurance companies, the giant healthcare conglomerates) would be a good start.

3) Not going to happen no matter how much lip service is given. Cheap outsourcing generates more profits for the rich, the plight of the average blue collar worker in the US is not a concern. Guess who decides policy? It would be more feasible to have higher infrastructure spending to pay people living wages to maintain bridges and stuff like that IMO.

4) Essentially a democratic party platform. Republicans deny this is an issue. Also interferes with profits.

5) Both parties have politicians happy to promote lobbyist propaganda with the presumption they will get a 7 figure lobbyist job once they leave office. It seems like some newer people in congress will be against this, but there will be lots of legacy people to vote out.

Generally, it seems Republicans are significantly stronger on #1, democrats significantly stronger on #2 and #4, neither are doing much about #3, and #5 is a problem for both parties (though I would argue the Republicans are more compromised here, seeing as how they keep promoting people with conflicts of interest to regulate their own industry). 

 

[kface]

I agree that would be a platform that would get a lot of support, but I am not sure how you would address each point.

1) Lots of different opinions - some don't see a problem, others see a severe problem. Strengthen will also mean different things to different people. IMO this is kind of a red herring and does not really belong with the rest of the bullet points that actually impact people's lives.

2) Essentially a democratic party platform, with different ideas how to make it work. I feel anything to cut out the middlemen making extreme profits (insurance companies, the giant healthcare conglomerates) would be a good start.

3) Not going to happen no matter how much lip service is given. Cheap outsourcing generates more profits for the rich, the plight of the average blue collar worker in the US is not a concern. Guess who decides policy? It would be more feasible to have higher infrastructure spending to pay people living wages to maintain bridges and stuff like that IMO.

4) Essentially a democratic party platform. Republicans deny this is an issue. Also interferes with profits.

5) Both parties have politicians happy to promote lobbyist propaganda with the presumption they will get a 7 figure lobbyist job once they leave office. It seems like some newer people in congress will be against this, but there will be lots of legacy people to vote out.

Generally, it seems Republicans are significantly stronger on #1, democrats significantly stronger on #2 and #4, neither are doing much about #3, and #5 is a problem for both parties (though I would argue the Republicans are more compromised here, seeing as how they keep promoting people with conflicts of interest to regulate their own industry). 

again the point isn't how you address...you coalesce around these talking points and you just talk about them and that you are the only person that can deliver on them.  

To your points, Trump is literally gutting the environment like no one before him yet he stands there and says he is the best thing for it...it doesn't matter what you do, the message is what resonates

 

[BladeRunner]

again the point isn't how you address...you coalesce around these talking points and you just talk about them and that you are the only person that can deliver on them.  

To your points, Trump is literally gutting the environment like no one before him yet he stands there and says he is the best thing for it...it doesn't matter what you do, the message is what resonates

What's this?  Carbon emissions were down 3% in America last year, for example.  That doesn't sound like someone "gutting" the environment.

 

[kface]

What's this?  Carbon emissions were down 3% in America last year, for example.  That doesn't sound like someone "gutting" the environment.

You can't possibly be this naive - don't troll for the sake of trolling please

 

[BladeRunner]

You can't possibly be this naive - don't troll for the sake of trolling please

I'm not.  I've read a couple of your posts and everything appears to be that the sky is falling.  AT WORST, Trump is neutral on taking any action.  He's not doing anything to "gut" the environment at all.

 

[kface]

I'm not.  I've read a couple of your posts and everything appears to be that the sky is falling.  AT WORST, Trump is neutral on taking any action.  He's not doing anything to "gut" the environment at all.

Then you need to move out of the politics forum because clearly you don't read anything.  Here is a nice summary from national geographic for you from 2019

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/03/how-trump-is-changing-science-environment/

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/02/15-ways-trump-administration-impacted-environment/

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/tracking-deregulation-in-the-trump-era/

https://www.americanrivers.org/2020/02/an-attack-on-common-sense-dont-let-the-trump-administration-kneecap-nepa/

https://ens-newswire.com/2020/02/03/trumps-far-reaching-rollbacks-of-environmental-rules/

https://westernresourceadvocates.org/blog/trump-administration-proposal-to-gut-nepa-ignore-climate-change-considerations-is-attack-on-nations-foundational-environmental-law/

https://www.bettergov.org/news/fact-check-have-carbon-emissions-increased-under-trump/

 

[BladeRunner]

Then you need to move out of the politics forum because clearly you don't read anything.  Here is a nice summary from national geographic for you from 2019

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/03/how-trump-is-changing-science-environment/

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/02/15-ways-trump-administration-impacted-environment/

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/tracking-deregulation-in-the-trump-era/

https://www.americanrivers.org/2020/02/an-attack-on-common-sense-dont-let-the-trump-administration-kneecap-nepa/

https://ens-newswire.com/2020/02/03/trumps-far-reaching-rollbacks-of-environmental-rules/

https://westernresourceadvocates.org/blog/trump-administration-proposal-to-gut-nepa-ignore-climate-change-considerations-is-attack-on-nations-foundational-environmental-law/

https://www.bettergov.org/news/fact-check-have-carbon-emissions-increased-under-trump/

That's a LOT of links.  It's going to take me some time.

 

[kface]

That's a LOT of links.  It's going to take me some time.

He's done a LOT of damage

 

[sho nuff]

He's done a LOT of damage

You mean...there is more to the environment than carbon emissions?

 

[shadrap]

This sounds to me like something written by a troll.  It just seems to push too many predictable buttons to be taken seriously.

The "knitting" thing is a dead give-away IMO.  People who spend too much time online know that this particular corner of the world has apparently turned super-toxic.  But it's a tiny community.  Somebody who claims to be a walk-away from that community is more likely to be a sock-puppet than a real person.

while I like what she/he/ or whoever wrote I have to agree with you.  just a gut feeling & if it is that it's a sad commentary on where we are going.  

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

The "knitting" thing is a dead give-away IMO.  People who spend too much time online know that this particular corner of the world has apparently turned super-toxic.  

I feel like I live online and I've never heard of this. I honestly would never have guessed. I can't imagine a more peaceful sounding, little old lady, hobby than knitting.