Dems pushing to limit filibusters (1 Viewer)

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

should that be enough to be able to do whatever you want whenever you want

Of course not -- the threat of being voted out keeps people from doing whatever they want. Look no further than the government shutdown and debt ceiling fiasco.

Republicans rammed through a deeply unpopular policy, and was forced to retreat by public opinion.

 

[Statorama]

Now that the Democrats have opened this pandora's box, filibusters of any kind are open season for the party in power. If the R's can somehow take and hold the Senate through 2016 along with a Republican President....hoo boy will they be in a position to undo 100 years of liberal BS that has been foisted upon us.

As Kanye would say.....It's TIME TO CHANGE THE GAME

Obamacare repealed with a simple majority...voter ID....border security....eliminate the power of the EPA....no free rides for illegals...monthly drug screening for welfare recipients...expanded gun rights...balanced budget amendments...fair tax or flat tax...end the federal war on drugs...elimination of "czars" or force them to go through the approval process that other presidential appointees do...social security reform...medicare reform...basically all of the Ryan reforms...severe limitations on collective bargaining (the results in Wisconsin are overwhelmingly positive)....severe restrictions on the IRS...eliminate the board of education and return education back to the states control...end ethanol subsidies once and for all...there's so many more

If nothing else, MASSIVE cuts to the federal budget and MASSIVE tax cuts for TAX PAYING AMERICANS

 

[Statorama]

should that be enough to be able to do whatever you want whenever you want

Of course not -- the threat of being voted out keeps people from doing whatever they want. Look no further than the government shutdown and debt ceiling fiasco.

Republicans rammed through a deeply unpopular policy, and was forced to retreat by public opinion.

Have you forgotten about the 2010 elections already? When Republicans do something that's unpopular with the likes of your ilk, they get elected in tidal wave fashion

 

[Sarnoff]

I don't think 3 points for a field goal is fair. I think if you carry a ball into the endzone on your feet for 6 points, then kicking it into an even smaller target at the back of the endzone with your feet should be about the same if not more points.

 

[cstu]

Now that the Democrats have opened this pandora's box, filibusters of any kind are open season for the party in power. If the R's can somehow take and hold the Senate through 2016 along with a Republican President....hoo boy will they be in a position to undo 100 years of liberal BS that has been foisted upon us.

As Kanye would say.....It's TIME TO CHANGE THE GAME

Obamacare repealed with a simple majority...voter ID....border security....eliminate the power of the EPA....no free rides for illegals...monthly drug screening for welfare recipients...expanded gun rights...balanced budget amendments...fair tax or flat tax...end the federal war on drugs...elimination of "czars" or force them to go through the approval process that other presidential appointees do...social security reform...medicare reform...basically all of the Ryan reforms...severe limitations on collective bargaining (the results in Wisconsin are overwhelmingly positive)....severe restrictions on the IRS...eliminate the board of education and return education back to the states control...end ethanol subsidies once and for all...there's so many more

If nothing else, MASSIVE cuts to the federal budget and MASSIVE tax cuts for TAX PAYING AMERICANS

If that's what the American people want...

...don't see it happening though.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

should that be enough to be able to do whatever you want whenever you want

Of course not -- the threat of being voted out keeps people from doing whatever they want. Look no further than the government shutdown and debt ceiling fiasco.

Republicans rammed through a deeply unpopular policy, and was forced to retreat by public opinion.

Have you forgotten about the 2010 elections already? When Republicans do something that's unpopular with the likes of your ilk, they get elected in tidal wave fashion

Cats are not dogs. Humans are not dogs. Therefore cats are humans.

 

[cstu]

And to net the six Senate seats needed to retake the Senate, Republicans have to win all but one of these contests. It's a doable -- but narrow -- path.

But 2016 is a different story.

In that '16 cycle -- a presidential year -- Republicans will have to defend more Senate seats (24) than Democrats will (10). What's more, the turf is on more Democratic ground. Republicans up for re-election in 2016 include Illinois' Mark Kirk, Wisconsin's Ron Johnson, New Hampshire's Kelly Ayotte, Florida's Marco Rubio, and Pennsylvania's Pat Toomey.

Those are all states President Barack Obama won in both 2008 and 2012.

 

[humpback]

should that be enough to be able to do whatever you want whenever you want

Of course not -- the threat of being voted out keeps people from doing whatever they want. Look no further than the government shutdown and debt ceiling fiasco.

Republicans rammed through a deeply unpopular policy, and was forced to retreat by public opinion.

Yikes.

 

[Statorama]

And to net the six Senate seats needed to retake the Senate, Republicans have to win all but one of these contests. It's a doable -- but narrow -- path.

But 2016 is a different story.

In that '16 cycle -- a presidential year -- Republicans will have to defend more Senate seats (24) than Democrats will (10). What's more, the turf is on more Democratic ground. Republicans up for re-election in 2016 include Illinois' Mark Kirk, Wisconsin's Ron Johnson, New Hampshire's Kelly Ayotte, Florida's Marco Rubio, and Pennsylvania's Pat Toomey.

Those are all states President Barack Obama won in both 2008 and 2012.

Ron Johnson is beyond safe here. Can't speak for the others, but Johnson will win.

Black Jesus isn't running in 2016. Goodbye black and youth voters, as well as a steep decline in low information voters who think it's cool to vote for the black guy.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

But Reid can still single-handedly keep bills from coming up for vote at all.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Worth mentioning that if Republicans simply can't live with these changes they can repeal them with a snap of the fingers when they retake the Senate. Based on the level of outrage it seems likely.

 

[jamny]

Worth mentioning that if Republicans simply can't live with these changes they can repeal them with a snap of the fingers when they retake the Senate. Based on the level of outrage it seems likely.

Somehow I doubt it. They'll enjoy the added power.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Worth mentioning that if Republicans simply can't live with these changes they can repeal them with a snap of the fingers when they retake the Senate. Based on the level of outrage it seems likely.

Somehow I doubt it. They'll enjoy the added power.

That's what Democrats do. Republicans are better than that. If they see a chance to right one of the great legislative injustices in our nation's history, and simultaneously fix the damage that's been done to the Senate they won't be able to resist.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Worth mentioning that if Republicans simply can't live with these changes they can repeal them with a snap of the fingers when they retake the Senate. Based on the level of outrage it seems likely.

Nah - I'd much prefer they used it to ram their agenda down the Democrats throats. I'm glad the Dems are doing this.

 

[drummer]

Now that the Democrats have opened this pandora's box, filibusters of any kind are open season for the party in power. If the R's can somehow take and hold the Senate through 2016 along with a Republican President....hoo boy will they be in a position to undo 100 years of liberal BS that has been foisted upon us.

As Kanye would say.....It's TIME TO CHANGE THE GAME

Obamacare repealed with a simple majority...voter ID....border security....eliminate the power of the EPA....no free rides for illegals...monthly drug screening for welfare recipients...expanded gun rights...balanced budget amendments...fair tax or flat tax...end the federal war on drugs...elimination of "czars" or force them to go through the approval process that other presidential appointees do...social security reform...medicare reform...basically all of the Ryan reforms...severe limitations on collective bargaining (the results in Wisconsin are overwhelmingly positive)....severe restrictions on the IRS...eliminate the board of education and return education back to the states control...end ethanol subsidies once and for all...there's so many more

If nothing else, MASSIVE cuts to the federal budget and MASSIVE tax cuts for TAX PAYING AMERICANS

I'm reading this channeling Stat's Sarah Palin schtick.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Pretty interesting to go back and look at the 2005 "Gang of 14" agreement that kept Mitch McConnel from doing what Reid did today:

Part II: Commitments for Future NominationsA. Future Nominations. Signatories will exercise their responsibilities under the Advice and Consent Clause of the United States Constitution in good faith. Nominees should be filibustered only under extraordinary circumstances, and each signatory must use his or her own discretion and judgment in determining whether such circumstances exist.

[snip]

We believe that, under Article II, Section 2, of the United States Constitution, the word "Advice" speaks to consultation between the Senate and the President with regard to the use of the President's power to make nominations. We encourage the Executive branch of government to consult with members of the Senate, both Democratic and Republican, prior to submitting a judicial nomination to the Senate for consideration.

Such a return to the early practices of our government may well serve to reduce the rancor that unfortunately accompanies the advice and consent process in the Senate.

We firmly believe this agreement is consistent with the traditions of the United States Senate that we as Senators seek to uphold.

In short, McCain and the "Gang" intervened in 2005 and stayed McConnell's hand or he'd have done exactly what Reid did this week.

The history of this thing is very interesting, and ties a bunch of tempests together in a way I didn't really understand as they happened in real time. I'll try to write up a summary of it all when I can.

 

[Run It Up]

Worth mentioning that if Republicans simply can't live with these changes they can repeal them with a snap of the fingers when they retake the Senate. Based on the level of outrage it seems likely.

Somehow I doubt it. They'll enjoy the added power.

That's what Democrats do. Republicans are better than that.

Are you a real person? Or are you a persona?

Theres just no way someone could actually believe this.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The history of this thing is very interesting, and ties a bunch of tempests together in a way I didn't really understand as they happened in real time. I'll try to write up a summary of it all when I can.

TL;DR for when I do write this: both parties are full of ####, and anything goes when they're the ones doing it. No one has the moral high ground, everyone's hands are dirty and we're in 'an eye for an eye and we all go blind' territory at this point.

 

[The Z Machine]

The history of this thing is very interesting, and ties a bunch of tempests together in a way I didn't really understand as they happened in real time. I'll try to write up a summary of it all when I can.

TL;DR for when I do write this: both parties are full of ####, and anything goes when they're the ones doing it. No one has the moral high ground, everyone's hands are dirty and we're in 'an eye for an eye and we all go blind' territory at this point.

Agreed

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Now that the Democrats have opened this pandora's box, filibusters of any kind are open season for the party in power. If the R's can somehow take and hold the Senate through 2016 along with a Republican President....hoo boy will they be in a position to undo 100 years of liberal BS that has been foisted upon us.

As Kanye would say.....It's TIME TO CHANGE THE GAME

Obamacare repealed with a simple majority...voter ID....border security....eliminate the power of the EPA....no free rides for illegals...monthly drug screening for welfare recipients...expanded gun rights...balanced budget amendments...fair tax or flat tax...end the federal war on drugs...elimination of "czars" or force them to go through the approval process that other presidential appointees do...social security reform...medicare reform...basically all of the Ryan reforms...severe limitations on collective bargaining (the results in Wisconsin are overwhelmingly positive)....severe restrictions on the IRS...eliminate the board of education and return education back to the states control...end ethanol subsidies once and for all...there's so many more

If nothing else, MASSIVE cuts to the federal budget and MASSIVE tax cuts for TAX PAYING AMERICANS

How were you able to type all that with one hand?

 

[quickhands]

Worth mentioning that if Republicans simply can't live with these changes they can repeal them with a snap of the fingers when they retake the Senate. Based on the level of outrage it seems likely.

only a democratic Senate can put them back.

 

[fatness]

The writing on the wall is they may lose the Senate so they are going to slam through as many nominees as they can now.

Obamacare is an anchor, but I think they are overdoing it with the panic level.

You said that awhile ago. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=616554&p=13641277

I'm pretty surprised at liberal reactions in here. This really doesn't do anything for Democrats with Republican control of the House, but given the odds of a Republican takeover of the senate in 2012 it gives Republicans an avenue into ditching the fillibuster all together and creating a Supermajority with a presidential win. Most stories seems to point to Reid doing something out of frustration that was really, really dumb for Democrats.

It's still a bad idea .

You're opinion on that has been consistent. The consistent prediction that the GOP takes the next election seems like a rote response, though.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Worth mentioning that if Republicans simply can't live with these changes they can repeal them with a snap of the fingers when they retake the Senate. Based on the level of outrage it seems likely.

only a democratic Senate can put them back.

Based on his comments I'm pretty sure reinstituting the filibuster will be McConnell's first act when he's Senate Leader again. In fact, based on the level right-wing outrage I'll be shocked if the House doesn't restore the filibuster -- missing these long 171 years.

 

[jon_mx]

Worth mentioning that if Republicans simply can't live with these changes they can repeal them with a snap of the fingers when they retake the Senate. Based on the level of outrage it seems likely.

only a democratic Senate can put them back.

Based on his comments I'm pretty sure reinstituting the filibuster will be McConnell's first act when he's Senate Leader again. In fact, based on the level right-wing outrage I'll be shocked if the House doesn't restore the filibuster -- missing these long 171 years.

Do you always post stuff this stupid?

 

[cstu]

Worth mentioning that if Republicans simply can't live with these changes they can repeal them with a snap of the fingers when they retake the Senate. Based on the level of outrage it seems likely.

Nah - I'd much prefer they used it to ram their agenda down the Democrats throats. I'm glad the Dems are doing this.

Good to hear.

 

[oso diablo]

and here we are...

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Was thinking about this earlier.

Query - did the Democrats want the GOP to have this added power to undo some of their handiwork for them?

 

[Aerial Assault]

Was thinking about this earlier.

Query - did the Democrats want the GOP to have this added power to undo some of their handiwork for them?

Ever hear of a veto?

 

[tommyboy]

get ready for a slew of op eds and opinion articles talking about the need for R's to compromise.

 

[tommyboy]

i hope the GOP sends a bunch of bills to Obama undoing all his handiwork the last 6 years and forces him to veto everything. Will be interesting to see what the R's do now.

 

[jon_mx]

I am sure the tone of news coverage will shift from one of disgust with the use of a filibuster to one of encouragement

 

[GroveDiesel]

get ready for a slew of op eds and opinion articles talking about the need for R's to compromise.

Tom Brokaw was already bringing this up as early as yesterday afternoon.

The other thing to watch for now is the Dems calling for Obama to jam through as much as he can before the end of the year now. They were already calling for that last night when it became obvious they were getting crushed. Of course when the Reps had power and the Dems swept into office, it was all about how there was a "mandate" and that the Reps shouldn't dare to spit n the face of the people by passing any lame duck legislation.

 

[Boston]

get ready for a slew of op eds and opinion articles talking about the need for R's to compromise.

Tom Brokaw was already bringing this up as early as yesterday afternoon.

The other thing to watch for now is the Dems calling for Obama to jam through as much as he can before the end of the year now. They were already calling for that last night when it became obvious they were getting crushed. Of course when the Reps had power and the Dems swept into office, it was all about how there was a "mandate" and that the Reps shouldn't dare to spit n the face of the people by passing any lame duck legislation.

These events are when you really see mainstream media bias...if last night went the other way today would be about the end of the GOP as we know it...when it goes the way it did it's always about the need to work together...if the R's are smart they don't do any victory dances or do any foolish "symbolic" legislation or even whisper anything about payback...they take the high-road and act professional and offer up non-political solutions to the current nonsense we have going on...politically their main goal has to be competence...they need to show the general public they are a viable alternative to the politically correct BS that has been going on lately...the more amateur, incompetent and far left they make Obama look the better off they will be in the long-run...

 

[Abraham]

Competence in politics.... Lol

 

[Boston]

Competence in politics.... Lol

Could not agree more...the bar could not be set any lower right now...

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Was thinking about this earlier.

Query - did the Democrats want the GOP to have this added power to undo some of their handiwork for them?

Ever hear of a veto?

Of course they have the veto. Why then? The Dems had no idea the GOP come in and use the rules changes to their own advantage? They see the WH as their backstop?

 

[igbomb]

I am sure the tone of news coverage will shift from one of disgust with the use of a filibuster to one of encouragement

And how will conservative radio feel about filibusters themselves?

If you can't see that this game gets played the same both ways then there isn't any help for you.

 

[jon_mx]

I am sure the tone of news coverage will shift from one of disgust with the use of a filibuster to one of encouragement

And how will conservative radio feel about filibusters themselves?

If you can't see that this game gets played the same both ways then there isn't any help for you.

I have no problem acknowledging the slant that Fox and other conservative media puts on things.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Was thinking about this earlier.

Query - did the Democrats want the GOP to have this added power to undo some of their handiwork for them?

Ever hear of a veto?

Of course they have the veto. Why then? The Dems had no idea the GOP come in and use the rules changes to their own advantage? They see the WH as their backstop?

The GOP can't use the rule change to their advantage. It applies only to executive branch/judicial nominees, and since they don't control the executive branch they can't nominate people.

To use it to their advantage they'd have to expand it to include all legislation, which would be an enormous change, about a hundred times more significant than the "nuclear" rule change from last year. It would also be suicidal, since Obama could still veto with relatively few repercussions as a president on the back end of his second term, and anyone who can read a map can see that the rule change would be likely to benefit Dems starting in two years ... when they still might control the White House, too.

 

[Jackstraw]

The important point to remember is that the democrats invented obstruction on 11/5/14.

And its a BIG DEAL.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Was thinking about this earlier.

Query - did the Democrats want the GOP to have this added power to undo some of their handiwork for them?

Ever hear of a veto?

Of course they have the veto. Why then? The Dems had no idea the GOP come in and use the rules changes to their own advantage? They see the WH as their backstop?

The GOP can't use the rule change to their advantage. It applies only to executive branch/judicial nominees, and since they don't control the executive branch they can't nominate people.

To use it to their advantage they'd have to expand it to include all legislation, which would be an enormous change, about a hundred times more significant than the "nuclear" rule change from last year. It would also be suicidal, since Obama could still veto with relatively few repercussions as a president on the back end of his second term, and anyone who can read a map can see that the rule change would be likely to benefit Dems starting in two years ... when they still might control the White House, too.

Yup. Whole lotta "silly" (not to say "stupid") in this thread.

 

[GroveDiesel]

They don't need to change the rules anyway. Reid changed the rule because the Senate is the only one involved with confirming appointees. They can already avoid filibuster issues simply by pulling an end around and using the reconciliation process like they did with the passage of the ACA. So Republicans can already get around the filibuster of a normal bill using that same tactic.

 

[The General]

$100,000,000 + spent and over 100,000 ads for a Senate race in North Carolina.

Yeah, this is a great system we have worked out: crazytown

 

[TobiasFunke]

They don't need to change the rules anyway. Reid changed the rule because the Senate is the only one involved with confirming appointees. They can already avoid filibuster issues simply by pulling an end around and using the reconciliation process like they did with the passage of the ACA. So Republicans can already get around the filibuster of a normal bill using that same tactic.

Yup. That's a far more relevant "rule change" after yesterday than the one discussed in this thread. It's got its own complications of course but it's a more damaging precedent for the Dems than this one.

 

[timschochet]

get ready for a slew of op eds and opinion articles talking about the need for R's to compromise.

Tom Brokaw was already bringing this up as early as yesterday afternoon.

The other thing to watch for now is the Dems calling for Obama to jam through as much as he can before the end of the year now. They were already calling for that last night when it became obvious they were getting crushed. Of course when the Reps had power and the Dems swept into office, it was all about how there was a "mandate" and that the Reps shouldn't dare to spit n the face of the people by passing any lame duck legislation.

i predict Obama won't try to shove anything through right now ; I don't think he will be confrontational at all. I was hoping personally for some kind of amnesty action, but now I think that's dead in the water. Which in retrospect is fine- as much as I want amnesty the public does not and decisions like that shouldn't be made in such a manner.

 

[culdeus]

$100,000,000 + spent and over 100,000 ads for a Senate race in North Carolina.

Yeah, this is a great system we have worked out: crazytown

unreal

 

[Tackling Dummies]

$100,000,000 + spent and over 100,000 ads for a Senate race in North Carolina.

Yeah, this is a great system we have worked out: crazytown

unreal

The blessing is that you do not live in NC. Commercials ran non stop, every channel, radio, commentary. Endless loop of Hagan v Tillis.

 

[Slapdash]

$100,000,000 + spent and over 100,000 ads for a Senate race in North Carolina.

Yeah, this is a great system we have worked out: crazytown

$4 per vote and almost all negative. Only 35% of voting age people voted anyways. This is "democracy" in action.