Denver is done for the year (1 Viewer)

[ExtraPoint]

With John Elway at QB, the Charger game might have been worth watching but Denver would have still lost.

 

[rascal]

Till denver addresses the holes on defense it won't matter.

They've been decimated by injuries this year and the lack of depth and talent outside it's few stars is finally catching up.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I don't see a difference at all on the offense with Cutler in there. Since theoretically Cutler can get better, I think that's a good thing.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

As a Broncos fan, I don't really care that making the switch arguably hurt their playoff chances this year.

The Plummer era was 3 years of beatdowns in the playoffs and one playoff win over the Patriots. That's a decent record -- as good as some Elway-led stretches prior to 1997 -- but it wasn't going to improve this season.

So let's see what we have in the kid -- he can't play significantly worse than Plummer, and he's the man next year. No problem here.

Once the Broncos lost at home to the Chargers, and at Kansas City, it became kind of obvious that the best the Broncos could do this year was make the playoffs and lose in the first round, especially with the way the defense's overall play had been fading, so Shanahan made a move that will benefit the Broncos in the future. I do not see how you can fault him for that.

I mean, does anyone really think the Broncos were going anywhere in the playoffs this year with the way Plummer was playing?

Because this is the NFL and you just dont give up on a season.

Do you really believe that Plummer would have made any difference yesterday? After 2 games Cutler has an 83 QB rating for 24th best in the NFL and Plummer has a 70.5 good for 46th. I don't know why this is so hard for some. It was the defense that was winning the games early in the year, not Plummer, he was a passenger. Their defense was exposed by Indy game and again by SD and they haven't stopped the bleeding since. Plummer was horrible save a few games this year.

Who is talking about yesterday specifically? I am talking about giving up on the season as a whole. Either you think Cutler would be better than Jake this season or you think the move was made knowing he would struggle but you wanted to get it out of the way for next season. The Broncos do not make the playoffs w/ Cutler in there this year. I think they would have with Jake. Would they have won the Super Bowl? Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

 

[dparker713]

As a Broncos fan, I don't really care that making the switch arguably hurt their playoff chances this year.

The Plummer era was 3 years of beatdowns in the playoffs and one playoff win over the Patriots. That's a decent record -- as good as some Elway-led stretches prior to 1997 -- but it wasn't going to improve this season.

So let's see what we have in the kid -- he can't play significantly worse than Plummer, and he's the man next year. No problem here.

Once the Broncos lost at home to the Chargers, and at Kansas City, it became kind of obvious that the best the Broncos could do this year was make the playoffs and lose in the first round, especially with the way the defense's overall play had been fading, so Shanahan made a move that will benefit the Broncos in the future. I do not see how you can fault him for that.

I mean, does anyone really think the Broncos were going anywhere in the playoffs this year with the way Plummer was playing?

Because this is the NFL and you just dont give up on a season.

Do you really believe that Plummer would have made any difference yesterday? After 2 games Cutler has an 83 QB rating for 24th best in the NFL and Plummer has a 70.5 good for 46th. I don't know why this is so hard for some. It was the defense that was winning the games early in the year, not Plummer, he was a passenger. Their defense was exposed by Indy game and again by SD and they haven't stopped the bleeding since. Plummer was horrible save a few games this year.

Who is talking about yesterday specifically? I am talking about giving up on the season as a whole. Either you think Cutler would be better than Jake this season or you think the move was made knowing he would struggle but you wanted to get it out of the way for next season. The Broncos do not make the playoffs w/ Cutler in there this year. I think they would have with Jake. Would they have won the Super Bowl? Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

I think he hurt their chances to get in the playoffs, but bettered their chances in the playoffs. Cutler has a chance to improve, whereas you knew that Plummer just wasnt good enough. He's not outright giving up on the season, but he did take a minor hit to his playoff chances.

 

[moleculo]

As a Broncos fan, I don't really care that making the switch arguably hurt their playoff chances this year.

The Plummer era was 3 years of beatdowns in the playoffs and one playoff win over the Patriots. That's a decent record -- as good as some Elway-led stretches prior to 1997 -- but it wasn't going to improve this season.

So let's see what we have in the kid -- he can't play significantly worse than Plummer, and he's the man next year. No problem here.

Once the Broncos lost at home to the Chargers, and at Kansas City, it became kind of obvious that the best the Broncos could do this year was make the playoffs and lose in the first round, especially with the way the defense's overall play had been fading, so Shanahan made a move that will benefit the Broncos in the future. I do not see how you can fault him for that.

I mean, does anyone really think the Broncos were going anywhere in the playoffs this year with the way Plummer was playing?

Because this is the NFL and you just dont give up on a season.

Do you really believe that Plummer would have made any difference yesterday? After 2 games Cutler has an 83 QB rating for 24th best in the NFL and Plummer has a 70.5 good for 46th. I don't know why this is so hard for some. It was the defense that was winning the games early in the year, not Plummer, he was a passenger. Their defense was exposed by Indy game and again by SD and they haven't stopped the bleeding since. Plummer was horrible save a few games this year.

Who is talking about yesterday specifically? I am talking about giving up on the season as a whole. Either you think Cutler would be better than Jake this season or you think the move was made knowing he would struggle but you wanted to get it out of the way for next season. The Broncos do not make the playoffs w/ Cutler in there this year. I think they would have with Jake. Would they have won the Super Bowl? Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

Are you claiming that Plummer would have beaten Sea or SD? That's really the only way they make the playoffs with Jake. I don't think Plummer beats SD yesterday, and I really have my doubts that he could have done enough to beat SEA.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

As a Broncos fan, I don't really care that making the switch arguably hurt their playoff chances this year.

The Plummer era was 3 years of beatdowns in the playoffs and one playoff win over the Patriots. That's a decent record -- as good as some Elway-led stretches prior to 1997 -- but it wasn't going to improve this season.

So let's see what we have in the kid -- he can't play significantly worse than Plummer, and he's the man next year. No problem here.

Once the Broncos lost at home to the Chargers, and at Kansas City, it became kind of obvious that the best the Broncos could do this year was make the playoffs and lose in the first round, especially with the way the defense's overall play had been fading, so Shanahan made a move that will benefit the Broncos in the future. I do not see how you can fault him for that.

I mean, does anyone really think the Broncos were going anywhere in the playoffs this year with the way Plummer was playing?

Because this is the NFL and you just dont give up on a season.

Do you really believe that Plummer would have made any difference yesterday? After 2 games Cutler has an 83 QB rating for 24th best in the NFL and Plummer has a 70.5 good for 46th. I don't know why this is so hard for some. It was the defense that was winning the games early in the year, not Plummer, he was a passenger. Their defense was exposed by Indy game and again by SD and they haven't stopped the bleeding since. Plummer was horrible save a few games this year.

Who is talking about yesterday specifically? I am talking about giving up on the season as a whole. Either you think Cutler would be better than Jake this season or you think the move was made knowing he would struggle but you wanted to get it out of the way for next season. The Broncos do not make the playoffs w/ Cutler in there this year. I think they would have with Jake. Would they have won the Super Bowl? Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

Are you claiming that Plummer would have beaten Sea or SD? That's really the only way they make the playoffs with Jake. I don't think Plummer beats SD yesterday, and I really have my doubts that he could have done enough to beat SEA.

I'd rather have a vet QB who can move around though than a rookie if my D is playing bad and I am still in the playoff hunt. I think they could have beaten Seattle with Jake in there. SD is the best team in the NFL right now though.

 

[Banger]

As a Broncos fan, I don't really care that making the switch arguably hurt their playoff chances this year.

The Plummer era was 3 years of beatdowns in the playoffs and one playoff win over the Patriots. That's a decent record -- as good as some Elway-led stretches prior to 1997 -- but it wasn't going to improve this season.

So let's see what we have in the kid -- he can't play significantly worse than Plummer, and he's the man next year. No problem here.

Once the Broncos lost at home to the Chargers, and at Kansas City, it became kind of obvious that the best the Broncos could do this year was make the playoffs and lose in the first round, especially with the way the defense's overall play had been fading, so Shanahan made a move that will benefit the Broncos in the future. I do not see how you can fault him for that.

I mean, does anyone really think the Broncos were going anywhere in the playoffs this year with the way Plummer was playing?

Because this is the NFL and you just dont give up on a season.

Do you really believe that Plummer would have made any difference yesterday? After 2 games Cutler has an 83 QB rating for 24th best in the NFL and Plummer has a 70.5 good for 46th. I don't know why this is so hard for some. It was the defense that was winning the games early in the year, not Plummer, he was a passenger. Their defense was exposed by Indy game and again by SD and they haven't stopped the bleeding since. Plummer was horrible save a few games this year.

Who is talking about yesterday specifically? I am talking about giving up on the season as a whole. Either you think Cutler would be better than Jake this season or you think the move was made knowing he would struggle but you wanted to get it out of the way for next season. The Broncos do not make the playoffs w/ Cutler in there this year. I think they would have with Jake. Would they have won the Super Bowl? Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

So far QB rating wise Cutler > Plummer. which QB is which?

QB1 55% completion, 181/ypg, 1 td/game, 1.09 int's/game, 17.1 ppg scored on offense

QB2 53% completion, 165/ypg, 2 tds/game, 1 int/game, 20 ppg scored on offense

Remove the names, does anyone see a big difference in actual production?

Also consider that Cutler stats are skewed because the two teams he faced had a combined record of 17-6 and their defenses were ranked 7th and 15th so it's not as if he faced easy competition by any stretch.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

As a Broncos fan, I don't really care that making the switch arguably hurt their playoff chances this year.

The Plummer era was 3 years of beatdowns in the playoffs and one playoff win over the Patriots. That's a decent record -- as good as some Elway-led stretches prior to 1997 -- but it wasn't going to improve this season.

So let's see what we have in the kid -- he can't play significantly worse than Plummer, and he's the man next year. No problem here.

Once the Broncos lost at home to the Chargers, and at Kansas City, it became kind of obvious that the best the Broncos could do this year was make the playoffs and lose in the first round, especially with the way the defense's overall play had been fading, so Shanahan made a move that will benefit the Broncos in the future. I do not see how you can fault him for that.

I mean, does anyone really think the Broncos were going anywhere in the playoffs this year with the way Plummer was playing?

Because this is the NFL and you just dont give up on a season.

Do you really believe that Plummer would have made any difference yesterday? After 2 games Cutler has an 83 QB rating for 24th best in the NFL and Plummer has a 70.5 good for 46th. I don't know why this is so hard for some. It was the defense that was winning the games early in the year, not Plummer, he was a passenger. Their defense was exposed by Indy game and again by SD and they haven't stopped the bleeding since. Plummer was horrible save a few games this year.

Who is talking about yesterday specifically? I am talking about giving up on the season as a whole. Either you think Cutler would be better than Jake this season or you think the move was made knowing he would struggle but you wanted to get it out of the way for next season. The Broncos do not make the playoffs w/ Cutler in there this year. I think they would have with Jake. Would they have won the Super Bowl? Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

So far QB rating wise Cutler > Plummer. which QB is which?

QB1 55% completion, 181/ypg, 1 td/game, 1.09 int's/game, 17.1 ppg scored on offense

QB2 53% completion, 165/ypg, 2 tds/game, 1 int/game, 20 ppg scored on offense

Remove the names, does anyone see a big difference in actual production?

Also consider that Cutler stats are skewed because the two teams he faced had a combined record of 17-6 and their defenses were ranked 7th and 15th so it's not as if he faced easy competition by any stretch.

So? 7-4 v. 0-2 is all that should matter really. I know this is a FF messageboard, but it is sometimes dangerous to get too attached to pure statistics other than wins and losses IMO. There are some things that dont show up in the box score.I just think Denver had a legit shot at the playoffs with Plummer and by the news breaking before the Thanksgiving game that Cutler was basically starting the next week, Denver gave up on this season. Do you think the defense might be reading into that as well? Who knows. Just a bad decision at a bad time IMO. I'm not trying to argue. It's just an opinion.

 

[Banger]

As a Broncos fan, I don't really care that making the switch arguably hurt their playoff chances this year.

The Plummer era was 3 years of beatdowns in the playoffs and one playoff win over the Patriots. That's a decent record -- as good as some Elway-led stretches prior to 1997 -- but it wasn't going to improve this season.

So let's see what we have in the kid -- he can't play significantly worse than Plummer, and he's the man next year. No problem here.

Once the Broncos lost at home to the Chargers, and at Kansas City, it became kind of obvious that the best the Broncos could do this year was make the playoffs and lose in the first round, especially with the way the defense's overall play had been fading, so Shanahan made a move that will benefit the Broncos in the future. I do not see how you can fault him for that.

I mean, does anyone really think the Broncos were going anywhere in the playoffs this year with the way Plummer was playing?

Because this is the NFL and you just dont give up on a season.

Do you really believe that Plummer would have made any difference yesterday? After 2 games Cutler has an 83 QB rating for 24th best in the NFL and Plummer has a 70.5 good for 46th. I don't know why this is so hard for some. It was the defense that was winning the games early in the year, not Plummer, he was a passenger. Their defense was exposed by Indy game and again by SD and they haven't stopped the bleeding since. Plummer was horrible save a few games this year.

Who is talking about yesterday specifically? I am talking about giving up on the season as a whole. Either you think Cutler would be better than Jake this season or you think the move was made knowing he would struggle but you wanted to get it out of the way for next season. The Broncos do not make the playoffs w/ Cutler in there this year. I think they would have with Jake. Would they have won the Super Bowl? Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

So far QB rating wise Cutler > Plummer. which QB is which?

QB1 55% completion, 181/ypg, 1 td/game, 1.09 int's/game, 17.1 ppg scored on offense

QB2 53% completion, 165/ypg, 2 tds/game, 1 int/game, 20 ppg scored on offense

Remove the names, does anyone see a big difference in actual production?

Also consider that Cutler stats are skewed because the two teams he faced had a combined record of 17-6 and their defenses were ranked 7th and 15th so it's not as if he faced easy competition by any stretch.

So? 7-4 v. 0-2 is all that should matter really. I know this is a FF messageboard, but it is sometimes dangerous to get too attached to pure statistics other than wins and losses IMO. There are some things that dont show up in the box score.I just think Denver had a legit shot at the playoffs with Plummer and by the news breaking before the Thanksgiving game that Cutler was basically starting the next week, Denver gave up on this season. Do you think the defense might be reading into that as well? Who knows. Just a bad decision at a bad time IMO. I'm not trying to argue. It's just an opinion.

You're inferring that just by having Plummer in there the .636 winning % from the beginning of the year would magically continue which is a totally flawed assumption. Looking strictly at wins/loss's is extremely simplistic and flawed since factors such as opponents, home/road, etc. have to factored in. I agree that there is more than just strict box scores and the single largest component is their defense. Early in the year they were lights out and won games in spite of/regardless of Plummer. Seriously, can anyone tell me any of those wins at the end of the game that you said wow, thank God we had Plummer today, he really pulled that one out. Plummers numbers are worse than nearly every starting QB in the league when they had a top notch defense AND a very good running game. That's bad and that's why he was replaced.

The way the defense is playing it really doesn't matter who is playing QB because they would have a hard time winning.

 

[thesurfshop19]

I just think Denver had a legit shot at the playoffs with Plummer ....

You keep saying this. And you know what, you're probably right. The Seattle loss is probably the critical one if the Broncos miss the playoffs, and Cutler wasn't great in his first game.All that said ... Denver's been to the playoffs. Over and over again. 4 appearances in the last 6 years, with 1 victory and 4 losses by the margins of 21-3, 41-10, 49-24, and 34-17.Just getting there isn't the goal anymore. Plummer got us to the playoffs 3 times, and you know what, last year's Bronco team was probably my favorite of them all (I felt they truly overachieved). I was firmly against a switch until the Broncos dropped the games against the Colts, Chargers, and Chiefs.At that point, it became clear that the Broncos can't beat quality "C" teams, and they would likely have to beat 2 of them in order to win the Super Bowl.They weren't run off the field in any of those games and Plummer played well against the Colts (who hasn't ) but the trend was downward and Plummer won't be back in 2007. Why not make the switch, see if Cutler can provide a spark against Seattle (he couldn't, although the game was close), and make a playoff run (if the Broncos win out, they're right there), and hey, if the team misses the playoffs at least they got Cutler some experience so he's less green in 2007.Not saying this is the only way, but I fully support this decision this time. "Karl Rove" and all ....

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

As a Broncos fan, I don't really care that making the switch arguably hurt their playoff chances this year.

The Plummer era was 3 years of beatdowns in the playoffs and one playoff win over the Patriots. That's a decent record -- as good as some Elway-led stretches prior to 1997 -- but it wasn't going to improve this season.

So let's see what we have in the kid -- he can't play significantly worse than Plummer, and he's the man next year. No problem here.

Once the Broncos lost at home to the Chargers, and at Kansas City, it became kind of obvious that the best the Broncos could do this year was make the playoffs and lose in the first round, especially with the way the defense's overall play had been fading, so Shanahan made a move that will benefit the Broncos in the future. I do not see how you can fault him for that.

I mean, does anyone really think the Broncos were going anywhere in the playoffs this year with the way Plummer was playing?

Because this is the NFL and you just dont give up on a season.

Do you really believe that Plummer would have made any difference yesterday? After 2 games Cutler has an 83 QB rating for 24th best in the NFL and Plummer has a 70.5 good for 46th. I don't know why this is so hard for some. It was the defense that was winning the games early in the year, not Plummer, he was a passenger. Their defense was exposed by Indy game and again by SD and they haven't stopped the bleeding since. Plummer was horrible save a few games this year.

Who is talking about yesterday specifically? I am talking about giving up on the season as a whole. Either you think Cutler would be better than Jake this season or you think the move was made knowing he would struggle but you wanted to get it out of the way for next season. The Broncos do not make the playoffs w/ Cutler in there this year. I think they would have with Jake. Would they have won the Super Bowl? Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

So far QB rating wise Cutler > Plummer. which QB is which?

QB1 55% completion, 181/ypg, 1 td/game, 1.09 int's/game, 17.1 ppg scored on offense

QB2 53% completion, 165/ypg, 2 tds/game, 1 int/game, 20 ppg scored on offense

Remove the names, does anyone see a big difference in actual production?

Also consider that Cutler stats are skewed because the two teams he faced had a combined record of 17-6 and their defenses were ranked 7th and 15th so it's not as if he faced easy competition by any stretch.

So? 7-4 v. 0-2 is all that should matter really. I know this is a FF messageboard, but it is sometimes dangerous to get too attached to pure statistics other than wins and losses IMO. There are some things that dont show up in the box score.I just think Denver had a legit shot at the playoffs with Plummer and by the news breaking before the Thanksgiving game that Cutler was basically starting the next week, Denver gave up on this season. Do you think the defense might be reading into that as well? Who knows. Just a bad decision at a bad time IMO. I'm not trying to argue. It's just an opinion.

Hmmm

Broncos second-year cornerback Darrent Williams suggested some of his teammates don't believe their season is salvageable on Monday. The Broncos (7-6) believe they must win their final three games to reach the playoffs. Yet Williams, who gave up several big plays in Denver's 48-20 loss at San Diego on Sunday, said that while nobody was outwardly conceding the season, he sensed some teammates were ready to cash it in. "Some people are ready to hang it up, you know, you can tell," said Williams, who didn't name names. "And it's hard when you're losing. It makes everything hard, it makes coming to practice hard. It makes coaches harder on you. It just makes everything harder when you're losing. So, a few guys are probably ready to hang it up. I don't know who. But I'm not."

 

[Sweetness_34]

I guess leading a team to the AFC Championship the year before means nothing! They did it with a duo of Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell at RB, an aging Rod Smith and Ashlie Lelie at the WR...and a defense that was solid abut not as good as the one that showed up the 1st 8 weeks of this season.

Plummer's 2005:Games: 16

277/456 passing (61%)

3366 yards (210/gm)

7.4 yds per attempt

12.2 yds per completion

18 TDs, 1.1/game

7 INTs, .6/game

2006:

11 games

175/315 passing (56%) <-- 5% fewer completions

1994 yards (181/gm) <-- 29 fewer yards (could be play calling vs. his performance)

6.3 yds per attempt <-- .9 fewer yards (could be play calling)

11.4 yds per completion <-- .8 fewer yards

11 TDs, 1/game <-- only .1 fewer per game

12 INTs, 1.1/game <-- .5 per game more

His performance is really pretty similar except for the INT ratio. He was making terrible decisions and passes the past few weeks. Jake did not have a bigger supporter than me until the SD game. I saw a few terrible passes, one of which probalby would have been a TD to Walker. That's when he lost me...he'd lost several other fans well before then. Id' imagine the players were pretty similar.

I'm amazed at the number of people on this board saying what a terrible decision is was to pull Plummer, but I've not even heard rumblings that the players think it was a mistake.

Where are all of the "Moving to Cutler is the absolute correct thing because every player in the locker room supported it" now???? I said it almost every post in this thread that by moving to Cutler, the Broncos would lose against Sea and SD and the other players in the locker room would quit playing.

Seems to me like I was 100% correct in my prediction here.

============

Williams suggests some Broncos have given up on the season

By Associated Press

December 11, 2006

Pass rush. Pass protection. Run defense. Special teams. Pass coverage.

Locker room turmoil?

Mike Shanahan’s long list of things he must address for the Denver Broncos to recover from their four-game losing streak grew by one very big item Monday when second-year cornerback Darrent Williams suggested some of his teammates didn’t believe their season was salvageable.

"Some people are ready to hang it up, you know, you can tell," said Williams, who didn’t name names. "And it’s hard when you’re losing. It makes everything hard, it makes coming to practice hard. It makes coaches harder on you. It just makes everything harder when you’re losing.

"So, a few guys are probably ready to hang it up. I don’t know who. But I’m not."

The Broncos (7-6) believe they must win their final three games to reach the playoffs.

Yet, Williams, who gave up several big plays in Denver’s 48-20 loss at San Diego on Sunday, said that while nobody was outwardly conceding the season, he sensed some teammates were ready to cash it in.

"It’s just a feel around some people. You can kind of feel that it’s just one of those seasons," Williams said. "... It can get hard right at this time, and it’s easy to just say, ’I’m going to just play these three games and get an early vacation."’

As possible evidence of his charges, Williams blamed the Broncos’ four-game skid — only the second in Shanahan’s 11 seasons — on some players taking some plays off.

"Because," he suggested, "if we got 100 percent effort from everybody, we could easily win these games."

Williams’ remarks came three weeks after veteran wide receiver Rod Smith blasted his teammates’ hearts in an emotional outburst following Denver’s loss at Kansas City.

They also were made about half an hour after Shanahan met with reporters. At that time, Shanahan said he sensed some frustration on his team: "Oh, I think everybody’s frustrated. If you’re not frustrated when you lose four games, then you’re in the wrong business."

Several players, however, including Champ Bailey, Domonique Foxworth and Kenard Lang, said Monday that they were certain everyone in the locker room believes they can win their last three games, starting Sunday at Arizona.

"One hundred percent, I believe everybody believes, we have talent here and we’ve got mature guys who have seen crazier things happen," Foxworth said. "Needing to win these last three games, it’s something that’s definitely within our reach."

Tight end Tony Scheffler said the Broncos were confident they could turn things around and he doesn’t feel there’s any fissures in the team.

"For losing four games in a row, everybody’s still upbeat," Scheffler said. "I don’t see anyone hanging their head or anyone too down. The spirit is still kind of upbeat."

Lang said he thinks everybody is still on the same page.

"I haven’t heard nothing else. I mean, if anybody’s down, they’re down because we’re losing. But nobody’s not playing hard. I think everybody’s still playing hard," he said.

Besides, Lang said, there was no reason to think the Broncos were finished.

"We still have a chance to go to the playoffs, so I don’t see why you’d be down at all," he said.

In the last 10 years, seven teams have rebounded from a four-game skid to reach the playoffs.

The last time the Broncos lost four in a row was in 1999, when they started out 0-4 while adjusting to life without John Elway, who had retired that offseason after winning his second straight Super Bowl.

This time, the Broncos are adjusting to another new quarterback, but rookie Jay Cutler is the least of their worries:

—Their offensive line isn’t protecting the passer.

—Their defensive line isn’t pressuring the passer.

—Their depleted secondary isn’t playing the pass very well.

—Their linebackers could do better against the run.

—Their special teams are exacerbating all these troubles with poor tackling and bad blocking.

Shanahan said every player and coach has to step up his performance the rest of the season.

"If we do that, we’ve got a chance to do something down the stretch," he said. "If we don’t, we’ll be sitting home."

 

[Sweetness_34]

I'll leave it to the guys who know (Cecil), but I hear Cutler has been blowing Plummer away in practice.

The saying, "Day and Night" comes to mind when I think of the difference between Jake and Jay in practice. There are ZERO players coming to the defense of Jake. Why? Because the majority of that lockerroom know that Plummer is not an effective leader. IMHO he quit on this team weeks ago. The pressure of Cutler behind him, the pressure to duplicate last year, NO KUBIAK, has affected his play.

Cutler is going to make rookie mistakes, but Jake was making them - and he's a 10 year vet!

The offense has already been dumbed down for Plummer, so why not put someone in there that can make plays?

Yes the Broncos are 7-4, but in large part due to a soft schedule at the beginning of the year - not because Plummer was leading them to victory.

Cutler=cool

Plummer=flustered

They'll finish the season 11-5. No film on Cutler and no rookie wall equals good things for the Broncos.

 

[Sweetness_34]

If you do not expect the Lombardi anyways this year, then why not continue with Plummer. He has shown in the past he can win playoff games. If your running game comes back come playoff time, and the ball bounces in your favor, you might even win meaningful playoff games. With Cutler, you have no shot, with Plummer you have some (albeit small). And it is not like 5 more games of experience this year is going to help Cutler that much. Start him next year from game 1....but why give up now. If you do not have SB aspirations, HOW are you going to expect the other 52 players to give their best for a coach who has already given up this year???? Players do play for the SB....and they do not like just giving up. This is not about your judgment or Shanny's.....this is about your team being given the best chance to WIN NOW. Which is the purpose of playing. Not to develop a QB for next year.

From what I hear, Cutler has been better in practice, and more importantly, the players are asking for the change.

Are these the same players who have now given up? Rod Smith blasted the players and now Darrent Williams has called some more out.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

I'll leave it to the guys who know (Cecil), but I hear Cutler has been blowing Plummer away in practice.

The saying, "Day and Night" comes to mind when I think of the difference between Jake and Jay in practice. There are ZERO players coming to the defense of Jake. Why? Because the majority of that lockerroom know that Plummer is not an effective leader. IMHO he quit on this team weeks ago. The pressure of Cutler behind him, the pressure to duplicate last year, NO KUBIAK, has affected his play.

Cutler is going to make rookie mistakes, but Jake was making them - and he's a 10 year vet!

The offense has already been dumbed down for Plummer, so why not put someone in there that can make plays?

Yes the Broncos are 7-4, but in large part due to a soft schedule at the beginning of the year - not because Plummer was leading them to victory.

Cutler=cool

Plummer=flustered

They'll finish the season 11-5. No film on Cutler and no rookie wall equals good things for the Broncos.

How you doin?I thought they'd win 4 out of the last 5. Looks like 2 out of 5 might be more like it.

Yes, I am a Cutler fan. I like the kid, he's got a good personality and is already commanding respect from the veterans because of his play. This team will be better off in '07 because of the move they made this year.

Jake is gone, Jay is the future...'nuff said.

 

[thesurfshop19]

I'm not really sure what your point is, Sweetness.

This move was made with 2 potential objectives:

1. Potentially spark a Super Bowl run that likely would not happen with Jake Plummer (this did not happen)

2. Give Cutler experience for the 2007 season and beyond (this appears to be happening)

Given that the Broncos have lost in the playoffs in the last 3 years with Plummer, that's not the end goal. They're not interested in another visit to the playoffs just to be bounced by one of the many better teams in the league. That's not a success.

Making this move may have cost them a "moral victory" in making the playoffs (I doubt they win either game with Plummer though, for the record), but it has not cost them anything long term. The only potential negative is if veteran players start to resent Shanahan for making the switch -- but that doesn't seem to be the case. Plummer is no Doug Flutie and it seems like people aren't upset by the switch but by the poor play overall.

Maybe I'm misreading this situation, but I'm not bothered at all as a Broncos fan if they miss the playoffs this year to get Jay ready for 2007. The only way I would be is if I felt the Broncos had a legit shot at winning the Super Bowl this year ....

 

[Banger]

bump...Shanny is looking like a genius now. Anyone who has seen Cutler play still think it was the wrong move?

The kid has been great after a tough game and a half. He's got a 90 qb rating and is averaging 57% completion, 192 yards/game 2 td's and 1 int. I had high expectations for him and he's exceeded those.

 

[Ghost Rider]

bump...Shanny is looking like a genius now. Anyone who has seen Cutler play still think it was the wrong move?

Anyone who does is brain-dead. I suspect some will say that the Broncos got lucky because of the Bengals botching the XP on Sunday, but who is to say the Broncos wouldn't have won the game in overtime or even at the end of regulation? The bottom line is that Cutler has played better every game, and has been a huge upgrade over Plummer. Plus, you can tell the team is already more confident with him, as opposed to Plummer, in there.

 

[thesurfshop19]

The funny thing is that, all along, Broncos fans embraced this move like no other QB move I can remember in Denver.

It was the fans of other teams essentially telling Broncos fans what a mistake it was because *GASP* they may miss out on a first-round playoff loss! Looks like we'll get that loss now!

 

[Spanky24]

The funny thing is that, all along, Broncos fans embraced this move like no other QB move I can remember in Denver.It was the fans of other teams essentially telling Broncos fans what a mistake it was because *GASP* they may miss out on a first-round playoff loss! Looks like we'll get that loss now!

I have not talked to a single Bronco fan that didn't think this was a good move for the team! I was praying for Shanny to make the switch, because Jake was not going to get us anywhere. Another GREAT move by Mike.

 

[PatsWillWin]

If the Broncos make some noise in the playoffs, this thread could rival the "Andy Reid Needs to Go" thread as the best Foot-In-Mouth threads of the season.

 

[Tubalcane]

If the Broncos make some noise in the playoffs, this thread could rival the "Andy Reid Needs to Go" thread as the best Foot-In-Mouth threads of the season.

I would have to agree with that