DeSean Jackson (1 Viewer)

[Scorehoard]

4th-15, CHI40 14:43 B. Maynard punt. D. Jackson returned punt for no gain. D. Jackson fumbled. N. Roach recovered fumble

This was found in the play by play log but there seems to be a dispute within our league that he did not fumble following a reception. The opposing owner says he watched the game and he did in fact fumble following a reception. Soooo.... After my own checking of Yahoo and CBS both showing the above log with NO other fumble by DeSean. What would you all rule? Did anyone see the game and can you vouch that a fumble did in fact happen? This is ended in a 2 pt loss for the Jackson owner where fumbles are -3. Thanks guys.....

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

4th-15, CHI40 14:43 B. Maynard punt. D. Jackson returned punt for no gain. D. Jackson fumbled. N. Roach recovered fumbleThis was found in the play by play log but there seems to be a dispute within our league that he did not fumble following a reception. The opposing owner says he watched the game and he did in fact fumble following a reception. Soooo.... After my own checking of Yahoo and CBS both showing the above log with NO other fumble by DeSean. What would you all rule? Did anyone see the game and can you vouch that a fumble did in fact happen? This is ended in a 2 pt loss for the Jackson owner where fumbles are -3. Thanks guys.....

Wasn't it a muffed punt?

 

[identikit]

4th-15, CHI40 14:43 B. Maynard punt. D. Jackson returned punt for no gain. D. Jackson fumbled. N. Roach recovered fumbleThis was found in the play by play log but there seems to be a dispute within our league that he did not fumble following a reception. The opposing owner says he watched the game and he did in fact fumble following a reception. Soooo.... After my own checking of Yahoo and CBS both showing the above log with NO other fumble by DeSean. What would you all rule? Did anyone see the game and can you vouch that a fumble did in fact happen? This is ended in a 2 pt loss for the Jackson owner where fumbles are -3. Thanks guys.....

Wasn't it a muffed punt?

Yes, it was...

 

[big0mar]

Definitely a fumble

 

[meeka]

Definitely a fumble

No it was not. He muffed a punt. (Hint: B Meynard is a punter) The NFL does not count muffed punts as fumbles. You have to catch the ball before you can fumble it.

 

[sho nuff]

Definitely a fumble

No it was not. He muffed a punt. (Hint: B Meynard is a punter) The NFL does not count muffed punts as fumbles. You have to catch the ball before you can fumble it.

The NFL does not. But most fantasy scoring systems count muffs as fumbles.

 

[meeka]

Definitely a fumble

No it was not. He muffed a punt. (Hint: B Meynard is a punter) The NFL does not count muffed punts as fumbles. You have to catch the ball before you can fumble it.

The NFL does not. But most fantasy scoring systems count muffs as fumbles.

So the answer to the OP would be...check your rules.

 

[OU#1]

CBS recorded it as a FL for DeSean. He muffed it which IMHO is a fumble. As a return man it's his responsibility to catch the ball so if the ball touches him and hits the turf it's totally on him.

If you overrule the official ruling then you are just asking for trouble later on in the season. Do the right thing and stick with the official ruling. If you make an exception now then everybody will be demanding exceptions and the integrity of the league will be at risk.

Edit: Just wanted to add that this is a known risk when using players that return kicks and punts. Nobody to blame but yourself if you take the risk and get burned.

 

[jpeeters]

Common Sense Opinion:

Do individual players get points for return yards and TDs? -> Count the fumble

If not -> Don't count the fumble

Seems fair, if you get the good, then you take the risk of bad. If you're not getting those yards, why should you get dinged for a muff/fumble?

 

[Road Warriors]

Common Sense Opiniono individual players get points for return yards and TDs? -> Count the fumbleIf not -> Don't count the fumbleSeems fair, if you get the good, then you take the risk of bad. If you're not getting those yards, why should you get dinged for a muff/fumble?

Sounds great, but doesn't your league site handle the scoring? While I determine the value of fumbles, the site determines what is or is not a fumble, based on the stats service. Are there any FFL sites that give you that level of granular control?

 

[TommyGilmore]

Common Sense Opiniono individual players get points for return yards and TDs? -> Count the fumbleIf not -> Don't count the fumbleSeems fair, if you get the good, then you take the risk of bad. If you're not getting those yards, why should you get dinged for a muff/fumble?

This isn't helpful.

 

[OU#1]

Common Sense Opiniono individual players get points for return yards and TDs? -> Count the fumbleIf not -> Don't count the fumbleSeems fair, if you get the good, then you take the risk of bad. If you're not getting those yards, why should you get dinged for a muff/fumble?

Great logic here and I agree with you.The problem is it's always been scored this way and it's going to continue to be scored this way. So the commish in this league is going to have to manually change this for every instance. "Well what about five seasons ago in the leagues championship game when I lost by 1 point because Marshall Faulk fumbled that kickoff?". "What about two weeks ago when Bush fumbled and I lost by 1 point? Are you going to reverse the outcome of that game?"Here's the other problem: If the FL isn't charged to the individual then it's gotta be charged somewhere. The obvious choice here is charging it to the DST. So now you have to go back to every game when some unrostered WW scrub kick returner fumbled and charge the FL to the DST. That could change the outcome of games as well. Fair is fair, right? Fantasy football scoring system is all about checks and balances so when a QB fumbles the DST (or IDP) is given credit for it. You can't have FL's disappearing w/o DFR's being removed as well.On CBS this is listed as "Fumble Lost, including special teams play". I just looked to see if there is any other way to score this and I didn't see any other option. So either you count the fumble to the individual including special teams plays, manually change the FL on special teams plays, or you don't penalize anybody for FL's across the board. The first choice seems like the best way to do business here. Maybe that's why 99.9% of leagues are setup this way? So like I said before you should really just leave this alone unless you seriously want to destroy the integrity of your league.

 

[Twilight]

Definitely a fumble

No it was not. He muffed a punt. (Hint: B Meynard is a punter) The NFL does not count muffed punts as fumbles. You have to catch the ball before you can fumble it.

The NFL does not. But most fantasy scoring systems count muffs as fumbles.

The NFL Gamebook lists DeSean as having a Fumble.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Definitely a fumble

No it was not. He muffed a punt. (Hint: B Meynard is a punter) The NFL does not count muffed punts as fumbles. You have to catch the ball before you can fumble it.

The NFL does not. But most fantasy scoring systems count muffs as fumbles.

The NFL Gamebook lists DeSean as having a Fumble.

Gamebook is not official. It's just a running diary. When stat corrections are made the following week, the box score and the play-by-play will change, but the Gamebook never does.

 

[austinke]

Are there any FFL sites that give you that level of granular control?

Yes - MyFantasyLeague.com does. See this blog entry for a detailed explanation!

 

[LTsharks]

Common Sense Opiniono individual players get points for return yards and TDs? -> Count the fumbleIf not -> Don't count the fumbleSeems fair, if you get the good, then you take the risk of bad. If you're not getting those yards, why should you get dinged for a muff/fumble?

Great logic here and I agree with you.The problem is it's always been scored this way and it's going to continue to be scored this way. So the commish in this league is going to have to manually change this for every instance. "Well what about five seasons ago in the leagues championship game when I lost by 1 point because Marshall Faulk fumbled that kickoff?". "What about two weeks ago when Bush fumbled and I lost by 1 point? Are you going to reverse the outcome of that game?"Here's the other problem: If the FL isn't charged to the individual then it's gotta be charged somewhere. The obvious choice here is charging it to the DST. So now you have to go back to every game when some unrostered WW scrub kick returner fumbled and charge the FL to the DST. That could change the outcome of games as well. Fair is fair, right? Fantasy football scoring system is all about checks and balances so when a QB fumbles the DST (or IDP) is given credit for it. You can't have FL's disappearing w/o DFR's being removed as well.On CBS this is listed as "Fumble Lost, including special teams play". I just looked to see if there is any other way to score this and I didn't see any other option. So either you count the fumble to the individual including special teams plays, manually change the FL on special teams plays, or you don't penalize anybody for FL's across the board. The first choice seems like the best way to do business here. Maybe that's why 99.9% of leagues are setup this way? So like I said before you should really just leave this alone unless you seriously want to destroy the integrity of your league.

We agree with jpeeters logic. it is simple really - since cbs forces us to use their scoring of these types of fumbles counting against the player, we do the following:it is up to the owner of the player who lost the points to notify the commish of one of these special team fumbles affecting their player. if they do so, the score will be corrected. if they don't, all scores are officially final as of midnight on the friday after the game. no crying later.no integrity issues at all.

 

[OU#1]

We agree with jpeeters logic. it is simple really - since cbs forces us to use their scoring of these types of fumbles counting against the player, we do the following:it is up to the owner of the player who lost the points to notify the commish of one of these special team fumbles affecting their player. if they do so, the score will be corrected. if they don't, all scores are officially final as of midnight on the friday after the game. no crying later.no integrity issues at all.

So was the DFR removed from the DST that received credift for the muff/fumble? Since one owner can argue one way then the other owner can argue the other way...Or better yet was a FL given to the DST that the special teams player plays for? In this example the FL should go to the Eagles DST if DeSean isn't the one that gets stuck with it. If nobody is given the FL then the Bears DST should lose the DFR as well, no?That's why I think it's better left to the stats folk and not manually changed...even if it's flawed logic.

 

[yellowdog]

Hs scoring line from my MFL.com league:

Jackson, DeSean PHI WRat Bears Sun 8:15 p.m. ET 2.31 35 Rushing Yards  4.69 71 Receiving Yards  0.74 37 Punt Return Yards  -3.00 1 Fumbles Lost (to Opponent)  6.00 1 Receiving TDs  10.74 Subtotal

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I can't say how the various leagues handle this, but a muffed punt is not a fumble. You have to have possession to fumble. You can't fumble if you never have possession.