Detroit RB situation (1 Viewer)

[Bayhawks]

I know Detroit is on bye this week, and I know there is another thread, but it had lost steam, and seemed to be becoming a little off-track. I'm going to try to sum up my take on the situation, and I would appreciate any insights (especially from those in Detroit area) to try to clear up this situation.

I can't figure out what in the world is going on in Detroit. They seem committed to using Leshoure, but he has not looked good. I believe his longest run is only 10-15 yards; he doesn't seem explosive, he doesn't seem able to make guys miss (a result of the achilles injury, maybe?), and I haven't seen him very effective at moving the pile. He's made a few catches, but from what I've seen, most of those catches have been in situations where the Lions are down, and the D seems to be giving up the short stuff (prevent "like" defense, although earlier than normal). His YPC sucks, and he hasn't helped make the Detroit offense better.

Smith played well at the end of last year, and the beginning of this year. He seemed to fit what Detroit wanted to do, offensively. He was successful in week 1, and then was average (against a tough SF team) in week 2. Then he was gone; not phased out, but gone. Even if Detroit wanted to feature Leshoure, it would have made sense to continue to utilize Smith in a 3rd down back/back-up role, but that hasn't happened. Did he get caught banging Schwartz' dog or something? Seriously, is there any homer "scoop" about Smith?

Bell has become the primary change of pace/back-up RB. But there doesn't seem to be much "exciting" there. I don't view him as valuable, FF-speaking.

Is there any news about Best? I know the speculation is that he will be off PUP, Drs wanted him to have a full year between concussions, etc; but is there any NEW news?

Will the Lions continue to heavily use Leshoure, even if he continues to flounder and the offense remains stagnate? If the abandon Leshoure (injury or continued lack of success), will Bell get the shot, or do they go back to Smith? Does Smith get cut/traded?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RushHour]

I know Detroit is on bye this week, and I know there is another thread, but it had lost steam, and seemed to be becoming a little off-track. I'm going to try to sum up my take on the situation, and I would appreciate any insights (especially from those in Detroit area) to try to clear up this situation.

I can't figure out what in the world is going on in Detroit. They seem committed to using Leshoure, but he has not looked good. I believe his longest run is only 10-15 yards; he doesn't seem explosive, he doesn't seem able to make guys miss (a result of the achilles injury, maybe?), and I haven't seen him very effective at moving the pile. He's made a few catches, but from what I've seen, most of those catches have been in situations where the Lions are down, and the D seems to be giving up the short stuff (prevent "like" defense, although earlier than normal). His YPC sucks, and he hasn't helped make the Detroit offense better.

Smith played well at the end of last year, and the beginning of this year. He seemed to fit what Detroit wanted to do, offensively. He was successful in week 1, and then was average (against a tough SF team) in week 2. Then he was gone; not phased out, but gone. Even if Detroit wanted to feature Leshoure, it would have made sense to continue to utilize Smith in a 3rd down back/back-up role, but that hasn't happened. Did he get caught banging Schwartz' dog or something? Seriously, is there any homer "scoop" about Smith?

Bell has become the primary change of pace/back-up RB. But there doesn't seem to be much "exciting" there. I don't view him as valuable, FF-speaking.

Is there any news about Best? I know the speculation is that he will be off PUP, Drs wanted him to have a full year between concussions, etc; but is there any NEW news?

Will the Lions continue to heavily use Leshoure, even if he continues to flounder and the offense remains stagnate? If the abandon Leshoure (injury or continued lack of success), will Bell get the shot, or do they go back to Smith? Does Smith get cut/traded?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I don't understand this line of thinking - the guy has played two games total. Even though it was against the Titans run defense, I don't know how you can say it wasn't an impressive performance or he didn't look good in his first game. He moved the pile and got a lot of yards after contact. In the second week, they played a much better Vikings defense and he predictably struggled. I don't know why anyone would think he would repeat his week 1 performance against the Vikings unless you are now expecting weekly RB1 numbers,which you shouldn't be. There is going to be some inconsistency there, but it looks like he will get the opportunity to produce. Whether or not he continues to hold off Bell, or loses touches to Best if he comes back, is another matter. But it seems like in many people's eyes, he's gone from stud to scrub after one week, which simply isn't true.What I can agree with is that Detroit's renewed focus on the run game seems to have messed up their offensive identity and if that continues, that could be a concern for Leshoure's value as much as anything else. It might be that this team is just better throwing the ball all game, rather than paying lip service to a balanced offense. I believe that they value the power dimension that Leshoure brings to the offense, but if it results in diminishing returns, I would think they have to look at changing things up and going back to what worked for them last year.

 

[matuski]

197 yards, 8 catches, a TD in two games... one versus a tough defense.

What is the problem again?

 

[Possum]

I know Detroit is on bye this week, and I know there is another thread, but it had lost steam, and seemed to be becoming a little off-track. I'm going to try to sum up my take on the situation, and I would appreciate any insights (especially from those in Detroit area) to try to clear up this situation.

I can't figure out what in the world is going on in Detroit. They seem committed to using Leshoure, but he has not looked good. I believe his longest run is only 10-15 yards; he doesn't seem explosive, he doesn't seem able to make guys miss (a result of the achilles injury, maybe?), and I haven't seen him very effective at moving the pile. He's made a few catches, but from what I've seen, most of those catches have been in situations where the Lions are down, and the D seems to be giving up the short stuff (prevent "like" defense, although earlier than normal). His YPC sucks, and he hasn't helped make the Detroit offense better.

Smith played well at the end of last year, and the beginning of this year. He seemed to fit what Detroit wanted to do, offensively. He was successful in week 1, and then was average (against a tough SF team) in week 2. Then he was gone; not phased out, but gone. Even if Detroit wanted to feature Leshoure, it would have made sense to continue to utilize Smith in a 3rd down back/back-up role, but that hasn't happened. Did he get caught banging Schwartz' dog or something? Seriously, is there any homer "scoop" about Smith?

Bell has become the primary change of pace/back-up RB. But there doesn't seem to be much "exciting" there. I don't view him as valuable, FF-speaking.

Is there any news about Best? I know the speculation is that he will be off PUP, Drs wanted him to have a full year between concussions, etc; but is there any NEW news?

Will the Lions continue to heavily use Leshoure, even if he continues to flounder and the offense remains stagnate? If the abandon Leshoure (injury or continued lack of success), will Bell get the shot, or do they go back to Smith? Does Smith get cut/traded?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I don't understand this line of thinking - the guy has played two games total. Even though it was against the Titans run defense, I don't know how you can say it wasn't an impressive performance or he didn't look good in his first game. He moved the pile and got a lot of yards after contact. In the second week, they played a much better Vikings defense and he predictably struggled. I don't know why anyone would think he would repeat his week 1 performance against the Vikings unless you are now expecting weekly RB1 numbers,which you shouldn't be. There is going to be some inconsistency there, but it looks like he will get the opportunity to produce. Whether or not he continues to hold off Bell, or loses touches to Best if he comes back, is another matter. But it seems like in many people's eyes, he's gone from stud to scrub after one week, which simply isn't true.What I can agree with is that Detroit's renewed focus on the run game seems to have messed up their offensive identity and if that continues, that could be a concern for Leshoure's value as much as anything else. It might be that this team is just better throwing the ball all game, rather than paying lip service to a balanced offense. I believe that they value the power dimension that Leshoure brings to the offense, but if it results in diminishing returns, I would think they have to look at changing things up and going back to what worked for them last year.

I think this is I'd add that Detroit's OL doesn't look like they're very good at run blocking, especially inside - Leshoure gets hit in the backfield a lot more than you'd like to see for a back with his skillset.

 

[BobbyLayne]

It's Mikel's job, he'll get GL carries, and he gets utilized in the passing game. Bell is CoP and will also get a number of targets. Smith is an insurance policy.

LeShoure was a limited partipant in practice all last week because of a tweaked groin, but he should be fine after the bye. The Titans game was the first time he'd been on the field for a real game in something like 630 days. He's not special, but he did fine. As Best and Smith demonstrated last season - both were top 12 - adequate talent in that offense will translate fine in PPR leagues. It don't look pretty but looks just fine in the box score.

I actually think Detroit has one of the least mysterious backfields in the league.

 

[Bayhawks]

I don't understand this line of thinking - the guy has played two games total. Even though it was against the Titans run defense, I don't know how you can say it wasn't an impressive performance or he didn't look good in his first game.

It was an impressive FF; he put up 130 yards and a TD, but it wasn't an impressive NFL performance. It took him 30 touches to put up 130 yards, and he didn't do what (I think) Detroit wants him to do: open up the passing game. It wasn't until they were WAY down, VERY late, and removed Leshoure that they started moving the ball through the air. He averaged 3.8 YPC, that isn't good.

He moved the pile and got a lot of yards after contact.

I didn't see this when I watched the game. I saw him leaving yards out there, and not getting more than what was there. I've searched for a site that has yards after contact stats, but I couldn't find one. If you (or anyone else) can point me to one, I'd appreciate it.

In the second week, they played a much better Vikings defense and he predictably struggled. I don't know why anyone would think he would repeat his week 1 performance against the Vikings unless you are now expecting weekly RB1 numbers,which you shouldn't be. There is going to be some inconsistency there, but it looks like he will get the opportunity to produce. Whether or not he continues to hold off Bell, or loses touches to Best if he comes back, is another matter. But it seems like in many people's eyes, he's gone from stud to scrub after one week, which simply isn't true.

I know Minny is a tougher defense, but he didn't just struggle, he looked really BAD.

What I can agree with is that Detroit's renewed focus on the run game seems to have messed up their offensive identity and if that continues, that could be a concern for Leshoure's value as much as anything else. It might be that this team is just better throwing the ball all game, rather than paying lip service to a balanced offense. I believe that they value the power dimension that Leshoure brings to the offense, but if it results in diminishing returns, I would think they have to look at changing things up and going back to what worked for them last year.

My question(s) are more NFL based, and how that will influence FF. He has had 2 games with significant touches, and the Detroit offense hasn't gotten better, in fact, it seems to have gotten worse. From an NFL perspective, are there any rumblings about Detroit coaches switching things up, and if so, how does that impact the FF situation there?

 

[Addai's Adidas]

I really don't understand why Kevin Smith has been kicked to the curb. He produced better numbers than Mikel and he had 2 TD's (including the winning TD) in the only game they've won this year.

The Lions look they are playing with their new toy in Mikel, completely forgetting about their old one, Calvin. You can't blame them for wanting to run the ball, but at this point you have to pass to setup the run. And until Mikel starts scaring people you will have to continue to pass to setup the run.

Problem is also that their defensive back field is so bad that they are signing safties off the street week to week and STARTING them. STARTING THEM. That should also tell you how bad their special teams are since special teams are made up of the "also rans". They are bad there.

They REALLY need to start lighting up the sky with the passing early in games THEN start running with Mikel. It seems really basic to me.

 

[Bayhawks]

197 yards, 8 catches, a TD in two games... one versus a tough defense.What is the problem again?

The problem is that it took him 40 carries to get 126 yards, that he was (reportedly) given the RB1 job to improve the offense (open up the passing game) and he has not been successful in doing that, that Detroit was supposed to improve on last year's playoff berth, and they don't look to be doing so, that Schwartz needs to get the Lions winning again (which they were doing when they weren't trying to be a power-running team), and that NFL decisions impact FF players. So, I was looking to see if any Detroit homers/insiders have heard anything about what the RB situation there. Is there still trust/confidence in Leshoure at RB? Will they look to Bell? Will they give Smith another chance? Is Best going to return & assume a lead role? The other thread turned into Leshoure is better! Smith is better! Leshoure is better! Smith is better! I really don't care who owns Leshoure, who owns Smith, who got screwed when Smith vanished, who got great returns on a late pick/WW add when Leshoure appeared. I want to get a better handle on what's going on in Detroit. I'm not attacking Leshoure, so you don't need to defend him by posting his total stats (while ignoring the incredibily high volume needed to attain them) and ignoring the over-riding concept that he isn't helping the Lions.

 

[Bayhawks]

It's Mikel's job, he'll get GL carries, and he gets utilized in the passing game. Bell is CoP and will also get a number of targets. Smith is an insurance policy.LeShoure was a limited partipant in practice all last week because of a tweaked groin, but he should be fine after the bye. The Titans game was the first time he'd been on the field for a real game in something like 630 days. He's not special, but he did fine. As Best and Smith demonstrated last season - both were top 12 - adequate talent in that offense will translate fine in PPR leagues. It don't look pretty but looks just fine in the box score. I actually think Detroit has one of the least mysterious backfields in the league.

Thanks-so you're not hearing anything, or aren't worried about how ineffective the offense has been, and whether they need to go back to what worked last year (which wouldn't play to Leshoure's strengths)?

 

[Wadsworth]

For a guy who has not played a real game in a very long time I think he has looked decent. From a fantasy perspective he can be productive even with a diminished role in terms of rushes. For example 12 rushes at 4 per carry, plus 4 catches for 35 yards and the goal line work yielding .5 TDs per games gets him solidly into RB2 territory. I doubt we will see an explosion of production from this guy this year but he should be a solid startable player.

 

[BobbyLayne]

It's Mikel's job, he'll get GL carries, and he gets utilized in the passing game. Bell is CoP and will also get a number of targets. Smith is an insurance policy.LeShoure was a limited partipant in practice all last week because of a tweaked groin, but he should be fine after the bye. The Titans game was the first time he'd been on the field for a real game in something like 630 days. He's not special, but he did fine. As Best and Smith demonstrated last season - both were top 12 - adequate talent in that offense will translate fine in PPR leagues. It don't look pretty but looks just fine in the box score. I actually think Detroit has one of the least mysterious backfields in the league.

Thanks-so you're not hearing anything, or aren't worried about how ineffective the offense has been, and whether they need to go back to what worked last year (which wouldn't play to Leshoure's strengths)?

I try to deal with known factors instead of inventing phantoms.After the Bears game, Best comes off PUP. For the next three weeks I don't foresee anything fluid here. I don't find Schwartz to be a difficult coach to read.

 

[Bayhawks]

It's Mikel's job, he'll get GL carries, and he gets utilized in the passing game. Bell is CoP and will also get a number of targets. Smith is an insurance policy.LeShoure was a limited partipant in practice all last week because of a tweaked groin, but he should be fine after the bye. The Titans game was the first time he'd been on the field for a real game in something like 630 days. He's not special, but he did fine. As Best and Smith demonstrated last season - both were top 12 - adequate talent in that offense will translate fine in PPR leagues. It don't look pretty but looks just fine in the box score. I actually think Detroit has one of the least mysterious backfields in the league.

Thanks-so you're not hearing anything, or aren't worried about how ineffective the offense has been, and whether they need to go back to what worked last year (which wouldn't play to Leshoure's strengths)?

I try to deal with known factors instead of inventing phantoms.After the Bears game, Best comes off PUP. For the next three weeks I don't foresee anything fluid here. I don't find Schwartz to be a difficult coach to read.

I'm not sure I understand the inventing phantoms reference.As to your Best comment & Schwartz being easy to read, you think Best will assume a lead role when he returns? Have their been any negative (positive) reports about his health?

 

[Bayhawks]

For a guy who has not played a real game in a very long time I think he has looked decent. From a fantasy perspective he can be productive even with a diminished role in terms of rushes. For example 12 rushes at 4 per carry, plus 4 catches for 35 yards and the goal line work yielding .5 TDs per games gets him solidly into RB2 territory. I doubt we will see an explosion of production from this guy this year but he should be a solid startable player.

I agree that this would make him a solid RB2, but he's not averaging 4 YPC, he's averaging 3.2 YPC. He's also unlikely to get 4 catches every game. Only 3 RBs averaged that many receptions last year (Ray Rice, Matt Forte, & Darren Sproles) & Leshoure isn't in their league, as far as pass catching. Also, expecting him to average 8.8 YPC is unrealistic, as well. And, if he continues to fail to help the Detroit offense, will he become less featured? That is the crux of this thread. I know that right now, if he continues to get the volume he has received, he makes a solid RB2, but if he doesn't get the volume, that will change, and if he doesn't help the Lions, the volume could change.

 

[BobbyLayne]

It's Mikel's job, he'll get GL carries, and he gets utilized in the passing game. Bell is CoP and will also get a number of targets. Smith is an insurance policy.LeShoure was a limited partipant in practice all last week because of a tweaked groin, but he should be fine after the bye. The Titans game was the first time he'd been on the field for a real game in something like 630 days. He's not special, but he did fine. As Best and Smith demonstrated last season - both were top 12 - adequate talent in that offense will translate fine in PPR leagues. It don't look pretty but looks just fine in the box score. I actually think Detroit has one of the least mysterious backfields in the league.

Thanks-so you're not hearing anything, or aren't worried about how ineffective the offense has been, and whether they need to go back to what worked last year (which wouldn't play to Leshoure's strengths)?

I try to deal with known factors instead of inventing phantoms.After the Bears game, Best comes off PUP. For the next three weeks I don't foresee anything fluid here. I don't find Schwartz to be a difficult coach to read.

I'm not sure I understand the inventing phantoms reference.As to your Best comment & Schwartz being easy to read, you think Best will assume a lead role when he returns? Have their been any negative (positive) reports about his health?

Inventing phantoms - I just think you're reading or worrying about something that isn't there. Stafford has made a lot of bad throws this year, it's a mystery - he simply has to play better. They're committed to LeShoure as their lead back. Not sure what you mean by going back to what worked last year or what changes you think that would entail.I think if Best stays healthy, Kevin Smith may be on the street again, and Jahvid will be the #2 RB and CoP replacing Bell. By all accounts he is tracking fine, but he's not doing anything now except attending meetings and working out alone. We'll see after he puts pads on. His doctors wanted him to take a full year off, and that anniversary is coming up.But as long as LeShoure stays healthy, it's his job.

 

[jon_mx]

If Best returns, he will be the main back and LeShoure will be the change of pace guy. This coaching staff wants burst out of the backfield more than anything and Best definitely has that. That is the main reason Smith is not liked by this coaching staff. He has little burst and is not a power guy either. Smith is effective, but is not what they want. Anyone who follows Detroit, knows this coaching staff is not high on Smith at all.

 

[plymkr]

You start a post asking for homer info about DET running game.

A homer comes in & says its LeShoures job, its pretty clear.

A couple of Smith owners question this answer. (even though its exactly what you asked for)

Then you start asking questions about Best, so u can pick him up?

It's LeShoures job. Is Best really coming back? If so, probably not for long.

 

[Chazzhawk]

To answer the OP. I live in Michigan and it is wise to just avoid all Detroit running backs this year

 

[Ministry of Pain]

197 yards, 8 catches, a TD in two games... one versus a tough defense.What is the problem again?

I'm interested in the answers as well. Are folks watching these games or browsing the box scores?

 

[BobbyLayne]

If Best returns, he will be the main back and LeShoure will be the change of pace guy. This coaching staff wants burst out of the backfield more than anything and Best definitely has that. That is the main reason Smith is not liked by this coaching staff. He has little burst and is not a power guy either. Smith is effective, but is not what they want. Anyone who follows Detroit, knows this coaching staff is not high on Smith at all.

Jahvid's not really that effective at running the ball. But he is explosive, which makes him the perfect CoP. How many games does he have with 15+ carries and a 4 YPC average? Either one or none.Very strange analysis, Jon.

 

[Bayhawks]

Inventing phantoms - I just think you're reading or worrying about something that isn't there. Stafford has made a lot of bad throws this year, it's a mystery - he simply has to play better. They're committed to LeShoure as their lead back. Not sure what you mean by going back to what worked last year or what changes you think that would entail.

Last year, they were a pass-first team. Since Leshoure came back from injury (actually they seemed to try it in the SF game, too), they seem to be intent on being a power-running team first, pass-second. By "going back to what works," that's what I mean. If they abandon the power-running plan, Leshoure would lose value, b/c it would stand to reason he wouldn't get the volume of touches he has so far.

I think if Best stays healthy, Kevin Smith may be on the street again, and Jahvid will be the #2 RB and CoP replacing Bell. By all accounts he is tracking fine, but he's not doing anything now except attending meetings and working out alone. We'll see after he puts pads on. His doctors wanted him to take a full year off, and that anniversary is coming up.But as long as LeShoure stays healthy, it's his job.

OK-thanks for the insight.

 

[Bayhawks]

If Best returns, he will be the main back and LeShoure will be the change of pace guy. This coaching staff wants burst out of the backfield more than anything and Best definitely has that. That is the main reason Smith is not liked by this coaching staff. He has little burst and is not a power guy either. Smith is effective, but is not what they want. Anyone who follows Detroit, knows this coaching staff is not high on Smith at all.

Is this your opinion, or based on more that that?Thanks

 

[Bayhawks]

You start a post asking for homer info about DET running game. A homer comes in & says its LeShoures job, its pretty clear.A couple of Smith owners question this answer. (even though its exactly what you asked for)Then you start asking questions about Best, so u can pick him up?It's LeShoures job. Is Best really coming back? If so, probably not for long.

Thanks for the thread update. It's not that long of a thread, so not sure what value it added, but thanks.

 

[Da Guru]

As a homer who watches every game it seems to me like Kevin Smith is the more talented RB than Mickey LeShoure. In the NFL it is all about money though. Smith was pulled off the street and Mickey is a high draft pick. It seems like unless LeShoure really stinks it up it is his job to lose be it right or wrong. Leshoure does seem to be able to push the pile, but other than that he just seems like a run of the mill RB without any special skills.

 

[Bayhawks]

To answer the OP. I live in Michigan and it is wise to just avoid all Detroit running backs this year

That may have been wise prior to the season, but I'm already invested, and in deep leagues, just dumping RB/RBs that are/could be getting significant touches isn't possible.

 

[Bayhawks]

As a homer who watches every game it seems to me like Kevin Smith is the more talented RB than Mickey LeShoure. In the NFL it is all about money though. Smith was pulled off the street and Mickey is a high draft pick. It seems like unless LeShoure really stinks it up it is his job to lose be it right or wrong. Leshoure does seem to be able to push the pile, but other than that he just seems like a run of the mill RB without any special skills.

Thanks, so if Leshoure continues producing at the rate he's been producing (not improving OR gettin worse), you expect him to be the lead back (barring injury) for the rest of the season?

 

[dickey moe]

Things are going to change a lot when (and yes I said when, not if) Best comes back.

 

[BigJim®]

I don't understand this line of thinking - the guy has played two games total. Even though it was against the Titans run defense, I don't know how you can say it wasn't an impressive performance or he didn't look good in his first game. He moved the pile and got a lot of yards after contact. In the second week, they played a much better Vikings defense and he predictably struggled. I don't know why anyone would think he would repeat his week 1 performance against the Vikings unless you are now expecting weekly RB1 numbers,which you shouldn't be.

Way too small of a sample to judge Leshoure. The Viking run D held SF to just 91 rushing yards (as a team) the week prior, so reading much into struggles against that run D is probably not wise.

 

[Wadsworth]

For a guy who has not played a real game in a very long time I think he has looked decent. From a fantasy perspective he can be productive even with a diminished role in terms of rushes. For example 12 rushes at 4 per carry, plus 4 catches for 35 yards and the goal line work yielding .5 TDs per games gets him solidly into RB2 territory. I doubt we will see an explosion of production from this guy this year but he should be a solid startable player.

I agree that this would make him a solid RB2, but he's not averaging 4 YPC, he's averaging 3.2 YPC. He's also unlikely to get 4 catches every game. Only 3 RBs averaged that many receptions last year (Ray Rice, Matt Forte, & Darren Sproles) & Leshoure isn't in their league, as far as pass catching. Also, expecting him to average 8.8 YPC is unrealistic, as well. And, if he continues to fail to help the Detroit offense, will he become less featured? That is the crux of this thread. I know that right now, if he continues to get the volume he has received, he makes a solid RB2, but if he doesn't get the volume, that will change, and if he doesn't help the Lions, the volume could change.

Pick a method. You use his current 3.2 per carry average to refute the idea he could average 4 per carry. Then you choose to dismiss his 4 catch per game with 8.9 per catch average and project lower numbers. Either use the existing data or project how you think he will perform. You seem to to be picking the side that works against Leshoure in both cases.

 

[Da Guru]

Things are going to change a lot when (and yes I said when, not if) Best comes back.

At least until Best gets tackled hard.

 

[VaTerp]

197 yards, 8 catches, a TD in two games... one versus a tough defense.What is the problem again?

I'm interested in the answers as well. Are folks watching these games or browsing the box scores?

By the same token you can say Smith had 161 yards, 2 Tds, and 6 catches....one against an even tougher D. So what was the problem with that?Smith was more efficient with his touches as well. And I've watched parts of the games, Smith looks like the more effective RB to me.I can understand them wanting Leshoure to be the lead back and them giving him more carries. What I don't understand is why Smith went from doing fairly well in the 1st two games and then being completely written off.Some have pointed out that Leshoure is coming back from injury as justification for his some of his "struggles" but isnt that more reason to not try and make him the workhorse immediately. Bell has come in and had some nice plays in the passing game but I just don't understand why Smith went from being the lead back to getting ZERO touches.

 

[jomar]

As a homer who watches every game it seems to me like Kevin Smith is the more talented RB than Mickey LeShoure. In the NFL it is all about money though. Smith was pulled off the street and Mickey is a high draft pick. It seems like unless LeShoure really stinks it up it is his job to lose be it right or wrong. Leshoure does seem to be able to push the pile, but other than that he just seems like a run of the mill RB without any special skills.

Thanks, so if Leshoure continues producing at the rate he's been producing (not improving OR gettin worse), you expect him to be the lead back (barring injury) for the rest of the season?

if you think 12-15 carries is the lead back, then yes, he will be the lead back. Best/Bell will get a few carries and will be 3rd down backs but I expect Leshoure to be out there for most running downs and get most of the rushing opportunites, especially short yardage and GL. Detroit should be throwing the ball 45 times a game so Leshoure will get a lot of 15-56 stat lines and get 6-8 TDs on the year.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Lets start with this - IMO Best is never coming back. If he does, he is a fool and the Lions should be ashamed. Like Merril Hoge, he just has had too many concussions in too short a time for a human being. What we are learning more every day is that the effects may never go away for these types of repeated trauma. Repeated trauma apparently has been proven to have a direct correlation to onset of ALS, alzheimer's, and dementia.

Best is a case where his body still can, but the brain just can't. Like Merril Hoge. I hope all parties involved wake up and Best retires. But he wont. So when he does play, I expect he will leave again in a hurry. And that will be a shame. The Lions even entertaining the idea is rotten.

Regarding the Lions: My gut is that it really depends on Leshoure's health. I could see a rotation with Bell. I could also see Bell getting the job at some point. It is just too rough for a NFL RB to carry the entire load today. And Leshoure hasn't really been the healthiest RB to date. Neither has Smith.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Inventing phantoms - I just think you're reading or worrying about something that isn't there. Stafford has made a lot of bad throws this year, it's a mystery - he simply has to play better. They're committed to LeShoure as their lead back. Not sure what you mean by going back to what worked last year or what changes you think that would entail.

Last year, they were a pass-first team. Since Leshoure came back from injury (actually they seemed to try it in the SF game, too), they seem to be intent on being a power-running team first, pass-second. By "going back to what works," that's what I mean. If they abandon the power-running plan, Leshoure would lose value, b/c it would stand to reason he wouldn't get the volume of touches he has so far.

I think if Best stays healthy, Kevin Smith may be on the street again, and Jahvid will be the #2 RB and CoP replacing Bell. By all accounts he is tracking fine, but he's not doing anything now except attending meetings and working out alone. We'll see after he puts pads on. His doctors wanted him to take a full year off, and that anniversary is coming up.

But as long as LeShoure stays healthy, it's his job.

OK-thanks for the insight.

Gotcha, I wasn't following your thought process earlier.I think what the coaching staff is trying to do is keep the defense off the field, and keep the D-line from teeing off on Stafford. That's the theory; hasn't translated well to date.

 

[Bayhawks]

For a guy who has not played a real game in a very long time I think he has looked decent. From a fantasy perspective he can be productive even with a diminished role in terms of rushes. For example 12 rushes at 4 per carry, plus 4 catches for 35 yards and the goal line work yielding .5 TDs per games gets him solidly into RB2 territory. I doubt we will see an explosion of production from this guy this year but he should be a solid startable player.

I agree that this would make him a solid RB2, but he's not averaging 4 YPC, he's averaging 3.2 YPC. He's also unlikely to get 4 catches every game. Only 3 RBs averaged that many receptions last year (Ray Rice, Matt Forte, & Darren Sproles) & Leshoure isn't in their league, as far as pass catching. Also, expecting him to average 8.8 YPC is unrealistic, as well. And, if he continues to fail to help the Detroit offense, will he become less featured? That is the crux of this thread. I know that right now, if he continues to get the volume he has received, he makes a solid RB2, but if he doesn't get the volume, that will change, and if he doesn't help the Lions, the volume could change.

Pick a method. You use his current 3.2 per carry average to refute the idea he could average 4 per carry. Then you choose to dismiss his 4 catch per game with 8.9 per catch average and project lower numbers. Either use the existing data or project how you think he will perform. You seem to to be picking the side that works against Leshoure in both cases.

What are you talking about? I wasn't making projections or picking sides; I was discussing what an earlier posted had said. That poster had suggested that 12 carries at 4 YPC plus 4 catches/game at 8.8 YPR would make him a solid RB2. I posted I agree with that, but the YPC isn't there, and I don't think the catches and YPR would stay that high. If I strongly believed that Leshoure was going to get better, than it would stand to reason that I wouldn't be worried about him holding onto the job in Detroit, and in that case, I wouldn't have started this thread. Based on what I've seen, however, I'm not impressed with Leshoure, and I'm worried that Detroit might switch things up again (either with Bell, when Best returns, or just be de-emphasizing the run again). Why would I assume he will improve his YPC, continue to post top-5 receiving stats (for a RB), and be worried that Detroit would replace him?

 

[Ace zero1]

They played Minnesota. Cut him some slack. Wait till he's played at least 4 games.

 

[joffer]

i'd be surprised if Best plays again

When i've been able to watch him, i've been impressed with Leshoure. Smith's a good back too, just can't stay healthy. i think it's Leshoure's job to lose at this point

 

[Papa Georgio]

Leshoure looks like Kevin Smith 2.0 to me, except I think Smith is a tad more versatile. It seems 2 games was enough to vilify Smith but not Leshoure. I know Smith has more games than that under his belt but in terms of this season, with this team he was sent completely packing after 2 fairly admirable performances. Just seems strange.

 

[Papa Georgio]

Leshoure looks like Kevin Smith 2.0 to me, except I think Smith is a tad more versatile. It seems 2 games was enough to vilify Smith but not Leshoure. I know Smith has more games than that under his belt but in terms of this season, with this team he was sent completely packing after 2 fairly admirable performances. Just seems strange.

 

[Bayhawks]

They played Minnesota. Cut him some slack. Wait till he's played at least 4 games.

1-Smith played well at the end of last year, and in the first game this year. Then he played SF (much tougher D than Minny), and when Leshoure returned, Smith vanished, without a whole lot of "warning," and no reason to believe Smith would be irrelevant. it has been suggested/posted/reported that Detroit coaches don't like Smith, but that wasn't known prior to week 3, and has not been confirmed since. It was a very sudden, unexpected change.2-Leshoure played well in week 3, but very poorly in week 4. Best is able to return soon, and this situation "could" repeat itself, despite Leshoure playing Minny. I'm not worried about me "cutting him some slack," I'm worried that Schwartz won't.3-Even if Schwartz does "cut him some slack," Detroit could abandon their emphasis on the power running game, and return to a pass-centric offense, de-valuing Leshoure since he won't get as high a volume of touches.4-Waiting until he plays 4 games might be too late to pick up Bell/Best, trade Leshoure, etc, so that would be a mistake.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I agree--Detroit has made it clear that the want Leshoure to be their primary back. The job is his right now--and it looks like Bell is behind him. However, make no mistake-- I think this is an absolutely stupid and unexplainable decision by Detroit. Leshoure has not looked good on the field at all. He had one good "fantasy" game against the leagues 30th ranked run defense. He's averaging less than 4 yards per carry--which is comparable to what smith was doing against far better defenses. The fact of the matter is that Detroit has started him for 2 games--and they have looked absolutely horrid the last 2 games. Detroit looked like a better team last year when Smith was starting--and they sure as heck looked better this year the 2 games Smith started. The biggest knocks on Smith are that he can't stay healthy and leaves yards on the field. Well, leshoure is the one coming off of a major achilles injury--and he was listed as questionable to play his second game after carrying the load after one week? Also, I've watched every game the Lions have played this year--Leshoure leaves yards on the field too. In fact, I believe that he fumbled the ball on the longest run he had in his last game--it was like a 14-15 yard run. For fantasy purposes, I cannot disagree that Leshoure is the guy to own right now. For reality purposes, it is crystal clear that Leshoure is not that great, and that Detroit is a better team with Smith on the field. They are both mediocre backs--but the Lions are noticeably better when one of them is on the field.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Joique Bell was well appreciated in New Orleans. He was considered a find and stash for the team by fans and it was disappointing he got picked up by the Lions off the practice squad. He's young, hungry, blocks well, can catch and run, and of course hits the hole hard. If Best does not come back then I would consider him an add.

I still like Best coming off the PUP though.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The numbers:

Mikel Leshoure

RB

6' 0", 227 lbs

TEN - 26 carries 100 rushing yards (AVG 3.8), 1 TD, 4 receptions for 34 yards (AVG 8.5)

MIN - 13 carries 26 rushing yards (AVG 2.0), 4 receptions for 37 yards (AVG 9.3)

Total >> 39 carries 126 rushing yards (AVG 3.2), 1 TD, 8 receptions for 71 yards (AVG 8.9)

Total combined yards - 197

Kevin Smith

RB

6' 1", 217 lbs

STL - 13 carries 62 rushing yards (AVG 4.8), 1 TD, 4 receptions for 29 yards (AVG 7.3)

SF - 16 carries 53 rushing yards (AVG 3.3), 2 for 17 yards (AVG 8.5)

TEN - 0

MIN - 0

Combined yards 161

Joique Bell

RB

5' 11", 220 lbs

STL - 1 carries 1 rushing yards (AVG 1.0), 1 TD, 0

SF - STL - 6 carries 14 rushing yards (AVG 2.3), 2 receptions for 59 yards (AVG 29.5)

TEN - STL - 5 carries 23 rushing yards (AVG 4.6), 4 receptions for 44 yards (AVG 11)

MIN - STL - 1 carries 2 rushing yards (AVG 2.0), 6 receptions for 72 yards (AVG 12)

Total combined yards 205

Jahvid Best

RB

5' 10", 199 lbs

News: Best (concussion) said Wednesday that he expects to be cleared to return to the field when he's eligible to come off the PUP list next month, the Detroit Free Press reports. (Wed Sep 5)

Spin: Since Best is ineligible to play during the first six weeks of the regular season, the earliest he could return to action would be for the Lions' October 22 game at Chicago. That said, it's far from a lock that he'll be turned loose that soon. The report also notes that when Best is eligible to come off the PUP list, the Lions will have a 21-day window to either activate him or give him another 21-day practice window. In any case, while it's possible that Best will help out fantasy owners this season, how much depends on several variables, not the least of which are his health and the health and production of his backfield mates as the season rolls along.

It doesn't sound like Best is a lock to come in when he's elligible to come off the PUP and contribute.

I don't know what to expect of LeShoure. The achilles was thought to be a career ending injury till recently so this is uncharted territory for a guy to come back from that sort of injury.

I like Joique Bell. Have since I saw him this preseason. He is producing the best of the bunch receiving the ball but he really hasn't gotten much of a shot to carry the ball. If Mikel has more struggles or has a relapse of sorts with his injury I'd like to see what J-Bell can do with more carries.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

I really don't understand why Kevin Smith has been kicked to the curb. He produced better numbers than Mikel and he had 2 TD's (including the winning TD) in the only game they've won this year.

The Lions look they are playing with their new toy in Mikel, completely forgetting about their old one, Calvin. You can't blame them for wanting to run the ball, but at this point you have to pass to setup the run. And until Mikel starts scaring people you will have to continue to pass to setup the run.

Problem is also that their defensive back field is so bad that they are signing safties off the street week to week and STARTING them. STARTING THEM. That should also tell you how bad their special teams are since special teams are made up of the "also rans". They are bad there.

They REALLY need to start lighting up the sky with the passing early in games THEN start running with Mikel. It seems really basic to me.

Former players say on TV all the time that the pass never sets up the run. The run sets up the pass.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I really don't understand why Kevin Smith has been kicked to the curb. He produced better numbers than Mikel and he had 2 TD's (including the winning TD) in the only game they've won this year.

The Lions look they are playing with their new toy in Mikel, completely forgetting about their old one, Calvin. You can't blame them for wanting to run the ball, but at this point you have to pass to setup the run. And until Mikel starts scaring people you will have to continue to pass to setup the run.

Problem is also that their defensive back field is so bad that they are signing safties off the street week to week and STARTING them. STARTING THEM. That should also tell you how bad their special teams are since special teams are made up of the "also rans". They are bad there.

They REALLY need to start lighting up the sky with the passing early in games THEN start running with Mikel. It seems really basic to me.

Former players say on TV all the time that the pass never sets up the run. The run sets up the pass.

So you think Leshoure's presence has improved Detroit's passing game? Look up Detroit's passing game last year when Smith started. The thing is that when smith played--along with Pettigrew--Stafford had two outlets for short dumpoff passes--which basically were in essence a pseudo running game. They used Javid Best much the same when he was healthy--and a lot of these plays would turn into huge gains. When they went to Leshoure--this element of their game was virtually lost. While a lot of people would say that Smith left yards on the field--just as many can argue that a lot of his rushing yards were disguised in his receiving numbers. Even in the last game, Staffords passing numbers went up a lot in garbage time to dump offs to bell. Detroit's passing game has not been thriving with Leshoure taking the lead.

 

[Wadsworth]

I really don't understand why Kevin Smith has been kicked to the curb. He produced better numbers than Mikel and he had 2 TD's (including the winning TD) in the only game they've won this year.

The Lions look they are playing with their new toy in Mikel, completely forgetting about their old one, Calvin. You can't blame them for wanting to run the ball, but at this point you have to pass to setup the run. And until Mikel starts scaring people you will have to continue to pass to setup the run.

Problem is also that their defensive back field is so bad that they are signing safties off the street week to week and STARTING them. STARTING THEM. That should also tell you how bad their special teams are since special teams are made up of the "also rans". They are bad there.

They REALLY need to start lighting up the sky with the passing early in games THEN start running with Mikel. It seems really basic to me.

Former players say on TV all the time that the pass never sets up the run. The run sets up the pass.

So you think Leshoure's presence has improved Detroit's passing game? Look up Detroit's passing game last year when Smith started. The thing is that when smith played--along with Pettigrew--Stafford had two outlets for short dumpoff passes--which basically were in essence a pseudo running game. They used Javid Best much the same when he was healthy--and a lot of these plays would turn into huge gains. When they went to Leshoure--this element of their game was virtually lost. While a lot of people would say that Smith left yards on the field--just as many can argue that a lot of his rushing yards were disguised in his receiving numbers. Even in the last game, Staffords passing numbers went up a lot in garbage time to dump offs to bell. Detroit's passing game has not been thriving with Leshoure taking the lead.

Was it thriving weeks 1 and 2 when Leshoure was out?

 

[BigJim®]

They played Minnesota. Cut him some slack. Wait till he's played at least 4 games.

1-Smith played well at the end of last year, and in the first game this year. Then he played SF (much tougher D than Minny), and when Leshoure returned, Smith vanished, without a whole lot of "warning," and no reason to believe Smith would be irrelevant. it has been suggested/posted/reported that Detroit coaches don't like Smith, but that wasn't known prior to week 3, and has not been confirmed since. It was a very sudden, unexpected change.2-Leshoure played well in week 3, but very poorly in week 4. Best is able to return soon, and this situation "could" repeat itself, despite Leshoure playing Minny. I'm not worried about me "cutting him some slack," I'm worried that Schwartz won't.3-Even if Schwartz does "cut him some slack," Detroit could abandon their emphasis on the power running game, and return to a pass-centric offense, de-valuing Leshoure since he won't get as high a volume of touches.4-Waiting until he plays 4 games might be too late to pick up Bell/Best, trade Leshoure, etc, so that would be a mistake.

JMHO, but this smells like the 'I'm peeved that Smith is no longer the primary carrier' offshoot thread, and not really the newly focused discussion. Seems like you are going out of your way to understate Leshoure's week 3 performance and overstate his week 4 game. I just don't agree that Leshoure 'ran poorly' week 4 and don't think you've supported that other than YPC - although he did fumble on his best run which is something to keep an eye on. I also respectfully disagree that SF is 'much stronger' than Vikes run D, as the comparison for 2012 is 3.2 YPC (SF) vs. 3.3 YPC (Minnesota - having faced both MJD and Gore)). Other than that, seems like Detroit's coaching actions on this topic speak volumes on what FFers should expect, absent some actual prolonged futility by Leshoure (i.e. far beyond one underwhelming YPC week vs. a top 5 run defense).

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It's Mikel's job, he'll get GL carries, and he gets utilized in the passing game. Bell is CoP and will also get a number of targets. Smith is an insurance policy.LeShoure was a limited partipant in practice all last week because of a tweaked groin, but he should be fine after the bye. The Titans game was the first time he'd been on the field for a real game in something like 630 days. He's not special, but he did fine. As Best and Smith demonstrated last season - both were top 12 - adequate talent in that offense will translate fine in PPR leagues. It don't look pretty but looks just fine in the box score. I actually think Detroit has one of the least mysterious backfields in the league.

I realize that Leshoure got some catches last week (4 rec, each week) but wouldn't you say that the real value in the Detroit backfield is whoever is getting the load of the receiving work?Maybe a distinction needs to be made between PPR/NonPPR too. I'm thinking PPR. I also am thinking Lions RBs have a better chance of scoring through the air than the ground and for that reason I like Bell more and more (and would love to see Best get into the same role post week 8-9 or so).

 

[BobbyLayne]

It's Mikel's job, he'll get GL carries, and he gets utilized in the passing game. Bell is CoP and will also get a number of targets. Smith is an insurance policy.LeShoure was a limited partipant in practice all last week because of a tweaked groin, but he should be fine after the bye. The Titans game was the first time he'd been on the field for a real game in something like 630 days. He's not special, but he did fine. As Best and Smith demonstrated last season - both were top 12 - adequate talent in that offense will translate fine in PPR leagues. It don't look pretty but looks just fine in the box score. I actually think Detroit has one of the least mysterious backfields in the league.

I realize that Leshoure got some catches last week (4 rec, each week) but wouldn't you say that the real value in the Detroit backfield is whoever is getting the load of the receiving work?Maybe a distinction needs to be made between PPR/NonPPR too. I'm thinking PPR. I also am thinking Lions RBs have a better chance of scoring through the air than the ground and for that reason I like Bell more and more (and would love to see Best get into the same role post week 8-9 or so).

I would agree with the PPR value, all of my posts presumed that we were discussing DET RB from a PPR perspective (not sure why anyone would bother with a Detroit RB in non-PPR).We can agree to disagree on Bell. He's a stopgap to Best IMO.

 

[Goldfinger007]

I'm a Stafford owner and I've watched nearly every single snap this year. You guys can listen to me or not, but there really is no big mystery to the Detroit backfield. From an X's and O's standpoint, it is crystal clear how defenses are playing them and what Detroit is "trying'" to accomplish by running the ball. The formula right now for beating the Lions is to play your safeties 20 yards off the line, limit the big play to Calvin and beg them to try and run the ball. Since Leshoure has been back, that's exactly what Detroit has tried to do, and let's be realistic here, they've failed miserably. A lot of guys are on the boards trying to point out that Leshoure had a pretty good game against the Titans, but that's solely from a fantasy football point of view. At no point in that game did he force those safeties up to play run and in fact Tennessee was even dropping their linebackers out to play pass first. This was against what will probably be the softest defense they'll face all year. I know a lot of guys have a man crush on Leshoure, but the fact remains that he has yet to do anything to force opposing defenses to respect him. Say what you will, but they are not going to be able to stick with this strategy and stay in the game with most of the teams on their schedule.

Personally, I think Leshoure looks like a pretty good short yardage runner to me, but he doesn't have enough explosiveness or ability to make defenders miss to ever force defenses to respect him. He's a plodder and Detroit is just not built to run the ball 30 times and control a game. If they want to try and stay in the game with some of the teams they have coming up, they're going to have to spread the defense out and sling it. In that case, Smith looks like the best option so far to me. They can run screens and sneak him out of the backfield. He's a good receiver and has enough wiggle to make defenders miss in the open field. In effect, these little dump offs replace the run and would force the safeties up to defend against it, which in turn takes some pressure off Calvin and the TE's. They had some success doing this in the Rams game and probably should have stuck with it. Bell may even be able to fill that role as well, i haven't seen him in the open field enough to tell yet, but I don't think Leshoure could to pull it off. Just my two cents, take it FWIW...

 

[Addai's Adidas]

I'm a Stafford owner and I've watched nearly every single snap this year. You guys can listen to me or not, but there really is no big mystery to the Detroit backfield. From an X's and O's standpoint, it is crystal clear how defenses are playing them and what Detroit is "trying'" to accomplish by running the ball. The formula right now for beating the Lions is to play your safeties 20 yards off the line, limit the big play to Calvin and beg them to try and run the ball. Since Leshoure has been back, that's exactly what Detroit has tried to do, and let's be realistic here, they've failed miserably. A lot of guys are on the boards trying to point out that Leshoure had a pretty good game against the Titans, but that's solely from a fantasy football point of view. At no point in that game did he force those safeties up to play run and in fact Tennessee was even dropping their linebackers out to play pass first. This was against what will probably be the softest defense they'll face all year. I know a lot of guys have a man crush on Leshoure, but the fact remains that he has yet to do anything to force opposing defenses to respect him. Say what you will, but they are not going to be able to stick with this strategy and stay in the game with most of the teams on their schedule. Personally, I think Leshoure looks like a pretty good short yardage runner to me, but he doesn't have enough explosiveness or ability to make defenders miss to ever force defenses to respect him. He's a plodder and Detroit is just not built to run the ball 30 times and control a game. If they want to try and stay in the game with some of the teams they have coming up, they're going to have to spread the defense out and sling it. In that case, Smith looks like the best option so far to me. They can run screens and sneak him out of the backfield. He's a good receiver and has enough wiggle to make defenders miss in the open field. In effect, these little dump offs replace the run and would force the safeties up to defend against it, which in turn takes some pressure off Calvin and the TE's. They had some success doing this in the Rams game and probably should have stuck with it. Bell may even be able to fill that role as well, i haven't seen him in the open field enough to tell yet, but I don't think Leshoure could to pull it off. Just my two cents, take it FWIW...

Nice Post!