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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun*** (2 Viewers)

Anthony Borbely said:
This team simply cannot win with their current starting pitching.
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If Zimmerman and Norris are healthy I think they are in good shape with Fulmer and JV pitching like they are. Any rotation with Anibal has issues, especially with Pelfrey being unreliable.

Ideally Boyd would step in and be the #5, but I'm fine with Pelfrey if the other 4 are JV, Fulmer, JZimm, and Norris. Norris seems so fragile though, so just as he looks like he's the answer, he's deads0r again. 

It would cost the Tigers about $28 million to cut Anibal loose so I see him as a long and mop up guy. Hopefully he can find his curveball again and contribute. Lowe seems like the odd man out if they make any kind of trade for a pitcher.  Letting him go would cost about $7mil, much more palitible. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
If Zimmerman and Norris are healthy I think they are in good shape with Fulmer and JV pitching like they are. Any rotation with Anibal has issues, especially with Pelfrey being unreliable.

Ideally Boyd would step in and be the #5, but I'm fine with Pelfrey if the other 4 are JV, Fulmer, JZimm, and Norris. Norris seems so fragile though, so just as he looks like he's the answer, he's deads0r again. 

It would cost the Tigers about $28 million to cut Anibal loose so I see him as a long and mop up guy. Hopefully he can find his curveball again and contribute. Lowe seems like the odd man out if they make any kind of trade for a pitcher.  Letting him go would cost about $7mil, much more palitible. 
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Like you said, if everyone can stay healthy that top 4 is decent enough, and maybe Boyd can be the 5. How about a new relief guy to replace one of those lesser bullpen arms. Franky + TBA + the lefty Wilson could get us down to just needing 6 innings from the starters.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
If Zimmerman and Norris are healthy I think they are in good shape with Fulmer and JV pitching like they are. Any rotation with Anibal has issues, especially with Pelfrey being unreliable.

Ideally Boyd would step in and be the #5, but I'm fine with Pelfrey if the other 4 are JV, Fulmer, JZimm, and Norris. Norris seems so fragile though, so just as he looks like he's the answer, he's deads0r again. 

It would cost the Tigers about $28 million to cut Anibal loose so I see him as a long and mop up guy. Hopefully he can find his curveball again and contribute. Lowe seems like the odd man out if they make any kind of trade for a pitcher.  Letting him go would cost about $7mil, much more palitible. 
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What happened to Sanchez to be getting knocked around so hard?  Sanchez is healthy and his velocity has been as good as ever. Hard to believe that the Tigers can`t get 5 innings out of him.

 
Da Guru said:
What happened to Sanchez to be getting knocked around so hard?  Sanchez is healthy and his velocity has been as good as ever. Hard to believe that the Tigers can`t get 5 innings out of him.
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Velo is down (90.9, 91.8 last year, 92+ the two years prior).  Bats aren't chasing (o-swing 26.5%, first season under 30 since 2011).  As a result, his BB's are up (4.25/9 IP, hasn't been > 3 since 2010), hard contact is up (33.3%, hasn't been over 30 since 2012), and FB is up (41.4, 39.1 last year, nothing about 35 since 2011).  Usually a 16% HR/FB is labeled bad luck, but in his case it looks explainable.

His stuff is at best mediocre, he's lost his location, bats are waiting for pitches to crush, and they are.  It's probably just a combo of age, the injuries over the years accumulating (wouldn't surprise me if he is injured right now too), and him losing confidence.  The long man/mop up duty role is really all he's useful for at this point.  If things go awry early then use him to eat some innings and get to the next game.  

 
Da Guru said:
What happened to Sanchez to be getting knocked around so hard?  Sanchez is healthy and his velocity has been as good as ever. Hard to believe that the Tigers can`t get 5 innings out of him.
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He doesn't have a third pitch, thats the short answer. 

 
Miggy is having a horrible July.  One extra base hit and 2 RBIs. Tough to score runs consistently  without him driving the ball all over.

 
I agree, now is a great time to blow this up. This team is destined for mediocrity for the time being. VMart, Kinsler, KRod, maybe even Pelfrey could be sold. I say do it before they just fall off the table completely and become a suck hole of salary or just inability to get a draft pick out of them.

 
People always #####ing about Brad should take special notice of how Ventura left a raw rookie out there to fail tonight. No idea at all why he was still in there to face Kinsler yet Miggy. Terrible managing. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
People always #####ing about Brad should take special notice of how Ventura left a raw rookie out there to fail tonight. No idea at all why he was still in there to face Kinsler yet Miggy. Terrible managing. 
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So because Ventura is awful, means Brad is good? This is poor logic sauce. Bad linguini being posted right here. 

To be fair I don't blame Brad right now, Avila needs to stop sitting on his hands. The pitching staff has serious issues. They are trying, and have been trying, to slow play the Anibal problems as well as how to handle the young guns in the staff. Both can be fixed by seeking a legit #3... or hopping in a dolorian and signing Doug Fister instead of Mike Pelfrey.

 
Bojang0301 said:
So because Ventura is awful, means Brad is good? This is poor logic sauce. Bad linguini being posted right here.

To be fair I don't blame Brad right now, Avila needs to stop sitting on his hands. The pitching staff has serious issues. They are trying, and have been trying, to slow play the Anibal problems as well as how to handle the young guns in the staff. Both can be fixed by seeking a legit #3... or hopping in a dolorian and signing Doug Fister instead of Mike Pelfrey.
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Did I say that? Brad is an average manager but he's not the worst. 

Fister sucks, I wish you could just go to Fangraphs, look at his numbers. He has a 4.64 FIP, Pelfrey is 4.84. He's marginally better, stop. I hated the Pelfrey signing from day one(you can look it up) but Fister isn't the answer either. The answer is Norris and/or Boyd. 

 
And how do they handle that? They're already talking about limiting Fulmers innings... Are they going to have 3 starters who can't make it past the 5th come August due to pitch count concerns? Avila is not being proactive to this point.

 
Norris has 74 innings, if he can stay healthy, he won't be up against any innings limits. 

There are a bunch of teams trying to trade for starting pitching, it's not cheap. No reason to trade all these bats that have bubbled this year, Stewart should be off limits and I wouldn't trade Hill either, and definitely not Fulmer or Norrus. Gerber and Jiminez maybe, but this franchise needs to start keeping their blue chips, and right now we might have more than we've had in three decades. 

 
Jimenez looks like the real deal, if they dealt him I'd be upset. It's been forever since they had a dominant closer (KRod has been good but operates on saavy and veteran instincts). 

 
Pretty sure they won't either buy or sell anything that looks like a blue chip, smaller deals maybe. 2 SPs and a starting OF are coming back soon, no need to panic either way.

 
Yeah Cashner will probably cost at least two of those guys I mentioned. If you want to make moves you have to give up something and I'd move ten relief pitchers before I moved a high potential bat. 

And I'm not saying move Jiminez, I think they should stick with what they have and make moves in the offseason. A minor deal for another reliever or something would be ok. 

 
MAC_32 said:
Then who do you think we should trade? For who?
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I don't know. I'm just an emotional fan. I've had three different opinions the last three days. Today I'm thinking they should just hold steady because DD is right: they need to hold their blue chips because for once it looks like a lot of them are going to pan out all together.

 
I agree. Given the org's current makeup in this market holding steady is probably the right play. Kick some tires and see what's out there, but I don't expect anything meaningful to happen. I don't think going for it and risking becoming the next Philly is a good idea. 

 
If they can get a blue chip hitting or starting pitching prospect for K-Rod, I'd probably do it.  If they don't, they have a cheap and good closer but I think you take your opportunities as they come. 

 
Knucklebabies said:
Pretty big home series against the Astros this weekend
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Chalk Sunday up as a L, so need to steal one Friday.  Stros struggle vs. lefties, so hopefully Boyd can make it through 6 with minimal damage and we can skip over the dredge of the bullpen.  Although I think their current lineup can be more RH heavy than it's been most of the year.  

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Bless you boys. And they did it with the bottom third of the order struggling to stay above the mendoza line
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Don`t really mind McCann and Salty not hitting for a high BA if the can pop some big HRs here and there.  Plus McCann can shut down the running game as good as any catcher in MLB.   Think of the trading deadline additions as JD, Norris and Zimmerman.

If someway somehow Upton can start producing the lineup would be tough to deal with.  Upton has a WAR of 0.0 right now.

 
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Da Guru said:
Don`t really mind McCann and Salty not hitting for a high BA if the can pop some big HRs here and there.  Plus McCann can shut down the running game as good as any catcher in MLB.   Think of the trading deadline additions as JD, Norris and Zimmerman.

If someway somehow Upton can start producing the lineup would be tough to deal with.  Upton has a WAR of 0.0 right now.
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In theory, they could throw McCann out there most days and be fine with him hitting .200 vs RHP because his defense is so good.  But with JD out we've had a :tfp: in RF and even though Romine has played CF, for some reason they prefer Aviles over him in RF.  Don Kelly had two triples yesterday and then was DFA'd.  I know I have man love for him but in real baseball terms he's a better fit as a utility guy than Aviles is.  They have Romine for all the infield positions, and I'm fine with Collins as a 4th OFer for now.  Aviles has been terrible, i won't cry if he's DFA's in the next week. 

That said I see no reason to trade for Lucroy, just stick with what you have and hope McCann figures out RHP (he had the same issue in the minors which I mentioned two years ago in this thread). 

 
Jimenez promoted to Toledo.  One step closer.

Unless they can get a starter for a bargain basement price (which I don't see happening) I'm hoping the Tigers stand pat at the deadline.  They have solid prospects due to the trades made last July and others like Jimenez and Stewart.  I'd like them to stay in Detroit and continue to develop so we can rebuild on the fly.  JD is about to return and if Boyd or Norris can contribute down the stretch the team will remain in playoff contention.  Jimenez will likely join the team when rosters expand if not sooner.  So we are bringing in extra talent for the stretch run.  Only 4.5 games behind Cleveland and still have 7 more games left against them.  

Tigers and Yankees have had the best record in MLB since June 29.  

I must say Brad has done a good job keeping this club together through all the injuries, the Sanchez falloff (although Fulmer has saved the season by stepping up), essentially having a 5th starter that gave the team little or no chance to win every time he has pitched.  K-Rod has been solid too after the shaky start.  

Big series this weekend.  I'm just glad they're still in the chase - last year at this time we were all debating which players they should sell (and thankfully they did sell).  This year stay the course, don't buy for a solid prospect (no LuCroy).

 
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