Deuce could be suspended for 4 games (1 Viewer)

[hellz_fireflies]

Could be, Should be, and Will be..thats the answers we don't know yet!

 

[Two Deep]

Reggie will be out 6 weeks minimum and Deuce will be suspended within 2 weeks. These are my propheices.

 

[hellz_fireflies]

Reggie will be out 6 weeks minimum and Deuce will be suspended within 2 weeks. These are my propheices.

Yes its possible within two weeks..but all have to know, its not just Duce..there are 15 other players..(wonder who they are).

 

[Anon]

ESPN, Clayton said the number may be as high as 18 players, that the players were notfied 2 weeks ago and have started the appeals process. He also believes due to the league wide nature and number of players there may not be a resolution for 3-4 weeks, he was guessing mid November.

 

[hellz_fireflies]

With so many players involved..and its a borderline drug (league wise), I think this will be held over until after the season ends.

 

[thehornet]

With so many players involved..and its a borderline drug (league wise), I think this will be held over until after the season ends.

oh ok, thanks.

 

[cvnpoka]

These guys are elite athletes working out hard all the time. Why would they take a water pill to lose weight? I'm sure it was not to mask something....

thinking the same thing, why would NFL players want to lose water weight? These guys aren't wrestlers.

On my way home from work, I was listening to Sirius NFL and they said Deuce came into camp overweight. Some coaches fine players $100 per pound per day. So if someone is 268lbs and should be no more than 250lbs, reducing water weight would help them get to that goal faster and save them $$$ while doing so.

these coaches are idiots.

 

[Superbowl Shuffle]

These guys are elite athletes working out hard all the time. Why would they take a water pill to lose weight? I'm sure it was not to mask something....

thinking the same thing, why would NFL players want to lose water weight? These guys aren't wrestlers.

On my way home from work, I was listening to Sirius NFL and they said Deuce came into camp overweight. Some coaches fine players $100 per pound per day. So if someone is 268lbs and should be no more than 250lbs, reducing water weight would help them get to that goal faster and save them $$$ while doing so.

these coaches are idiots.

No, the coaches are doing everything they can to field a winner. A large part of that equation is players who are in shape at the beginning of camp so they can "hit the ground running" and prepare for the season. Coaches are absolutely within their rights to demand that a player make a certain weight when reporting. It could even be in some player contracts. In the old days of the NFL when guys worked regular jobs in the offseason they would show up for training camp out of shape, overweight, and soft. They used that month to get their bodies ready and practice. Now that the NFL has become a fulltime job, and the season is essentially 12 months long (February could be argued as the only off month outside of the Pro Bowl), the coaches, GMs, owners, and fans should be demanding that these guys show up to camp physically ready to practice at full speed. Fining guys happens all the time for missed days on holdouts. Why should disobeying a coach's order be any different? KW2 is suspended this week for it (different story, but same principle). I don't know that it has been mentioned, but that same radio report on Moving the Chains referenced above speculated that the failed tests happened during training camp, hence the discussion of weight requirements for reporting and the theory that Deuce, et al used the water pills to trick the scales. Certainly plausible considering the timeline Clayton gave of being notified as many as 4 weeks ago (week 4). The testing process and rescreening of samples takes time before beginning any disciplinary actions. This MAY have been a training camp issue finally coming to light.

 

[Two Deep]

These guys are elite athletes working out hard all the time. Why would they take a water pill to lose weight? I'm sure it was not to mask something....

thinking the same thing, why would NFL players want to lose water weight? These guys aren't wrestlers.

On my way home from work, I was listening to Sirius NFL and they said Deuce came into camp overweight. Some coaches fine players $100 per pound per day. So if someone is 268lbs and should be no more than 250lbs, reducing water weight would help them get to that goal faster and save them $$$ while doing so.

these coaches are idiots.

No, the coaches are doing everything they can to field a winner. A large part of that equation is players who are in shape at the beginning of camp so they can "hit the ground running" and prepare for the season. Coaches are absolutely within their rights to demand that a player make a certain weight when reporting. It could even be in some player contracts. In the old days of the NFL when guys worked regular jobs in the offseason they would show up for training camp out of shape, overweight, and soft. They used that month to get their bodies ready and practice. Now that the NFL has become a fulltime job, and the season is essentially 12 months long (February could be argued as the only off month outside of the Pro Bowl), the coaches, GMs, owners, and fans should be demanding that these guys show up to camp physically ready to practice at full speed. Fining guys happens all the time for missed days on holdouts. Why should disobeying a coach's order be any different? KW2 is suspended this week for it (different story, but same principle). I don't know that it has been mentioned, but that same radio report on Moving the Chains referenced above speculated that the failed tests happened during training camp, hence the discussion of weight requirements for reporting and the theory that Deuce, et al used the water pills to trick the scales. Certainly plausible considering the timeline Clayton gave of being notified as many as 4 weeks ago (week 4). The testing process and rescreening of samples takes time before beginning any disciplinary actions. This MAY have been a training camp issue finally coming to light.

Its the fact that these water pills mask positive steroid test thats the problem.

 

[craxie]

random post by some dude on a charger forum, didn't see this here yet, my apologies if i missed itno sourcing at all, so caveat emptor

It doesn't mean bans. All players tested positive due to water pills they were taking to control weight, and early rumors are the suspected drug was an unlisted ingredient.I'm not saying they won't be banned, but it's not concrete yet.Unconfirmed names on the listeuce McAllister (NO)Will Smith (NO)Donte Whitner (BUF)Leon Washington (NYJ)Warrick Dunn (TB)Jason Ferguson (MIA)Eddie Royal (DEN)Ben Utecht (CIN)Malcolm Floyd (SD)Dawan Landry (BAL)Cornelius Griffen (WAS)

 

[bjabrad]

These guys are elite athletes working out hard all the time. Why would they take a water pill to lose weight? I'm sure it was not to mask something....

thinking the same thing, why would NFL players want to lose water weight? These guys aren't wrestlers.

On my way home from work, I was listening to Sirius NFL and they said Deuce came into camp overweight. Some coaches fine players $100 per pound per day. So if someone is 268lbs and should be no more than 250lbs, reducing water weight would help them get to that goal faster and save them $$$ while doing so.

these coaches are idiots.

No, the coaches are doing everything they can to field a winner. A large part of that equation is players who are in shape at the beginning of camp so they can "hit the ground running" and prepare for the season. Coaches are absolutely within their rights to demand that a player make a certain weight when reporting. It could even be in some player contracts. In the old days of the NFL when guys worked regular jobs in the offseason they would show up for training camp out of shape, overweight, and soft. They used that month to get their bodies ready and practice. Now that the NFL has become a fulltime job, and the season is essentially 12 months long (February could be argued as the only off month outside of the Pro Bowl), the coaches, GMs, owners, and fans should be demanding that these guys show up to camp physically ready to practice at full speed. Fining guys happens all the time for missed days on holdouts. Why should disobeying a coach's order be any different? KW2 is suspended this week for it (different story, but same principle). I don't know that it has been mentioned, but that same radio report on Moving the Chains referenced above speculated that the failed tests happened during training camp, hence the discussion of weight requirements for reporting and the theory that Deuce, et al used the water pills to trick the scales. Certainly plausible considering the timeline Clayton gave of being notified as many as 4 weeks ago (week 4). The testing process and rescreening of samples takes time before beginning any disciplinary actions. This MAY have been a training camp issue finally coming to light.

Sounds like a reasonable explanation so let's go one step further. Which of these rumored players would be motivated to try to lose weight during training camp?Deuce McAllister (NO)Will Smith (NO)Donte Whitner (BUF)Leon Washington (NYJ)Warrick Dunn (TB)Jason Ferguson (MIA)Eddie Royal (DEN)Ben Utecht (CIN)Malcolm Floyd (SD)Dawan Landry (BAL)Cornelius Griffen (WAS)I'm going out here on a limb of speculation but I have a hard time picturing Warrick Dunn or Eddie Royal needing to lose water weight or having a hard time making weight since they appear to be very lean to begin with.

 

[VTjkru]

Eddie Royal? I was acquainted with him at VT (a lot of same classes) and he doesnt seem like someone who would be masking marijuana or smoking in the first place. Ill see what I can find out from some other people.

And trying to lose weight doesnt seem very plausible, the dude was almost as small as me.

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

This doesn't mean they were trying to lose weight. It means they were using it to mask other drugs, probably steroids. These drugs cause excessive urine production. So, in essence, they dilute things down since more water is being dumped into the urine.

 

[Superbowl Shuffle]

This doesn't mean they were trying to lose weight. It means they were using it to mask other drugs, probably steroids. These drugs cause excessive urine production. So, in essence, they dilute things down since more water is being dumped into the urine.

I have the same assumption, but let's not state this as matter of fact yet. Until we have anything confirmed or a statement from one of the accused, then the weight loss is still a possible explanation. And the list of names I believe to be pure speculation at this point - remember the original leaked list for the Mitchell Report...very different from the real thing. I doubt the use is tied to weight loss, but I'm not ready to convict these guys as drug/steroid users in the court of public (or fantasy football) opinion. Although I did add Pierre Thomas as soon as I heard the news.

 

[Bizkiteer]

-- Deuce McAllister & Will Smith Won't be Suspended before Game in London --Fri Oct 24, 2008ESPN reports despite multiple reports that they've failed tests for taking water pills, violating the NFL's steroids policy, New Orleans Saints RB Deuce McAllister and DE Will Smith are both expected to play Sunday against the Chargers in London. The players' potential suspensions will not be handed down before Week 9 and they could easily be appealed, creating further delay.

Is it interesting that when it's to the NFL's benefit, they hold off on a suspension? They are two more important players for the Saints and taking them away could lead to less than stellar showing for our over sea's viewers. As long as it serves them well, they bend the rules. Had this been two Raiders, the BOOM would have come down already. Just saying...

 

[Anon]

On the other hand, using a banned substance to mask a banned substance seems pretty stupid.

 

[KellysHeroes]

The suspensions will go into effect...

Now NO should have Deuce appeal it... and if possible; delay it until next season... just like T Henry.

Then, NO cuts bait w/ Deuce over the off-season and they don't feel a thing... that would be perfect.

I think what will happen is that they delay & delay until Reggie is healthy or they can't Delay anymore. NO can't afford to miss anybody right now.

 

[Breesisdaman]

The suspensions will go into effect...Now NO should have Deuce appeal it... and if possible; delay it until next season... just like T Henry.Then, NO cuts bait w/ Deuce over the off-season and they don't feel a thing... that would be perfect.I think what will happen is that they delay & delay until Reggie is healthy or they can't Delay anymore. NO can't afford to miss anybody right now.

Deuce will not be cut over a 4 game suspension. He is going to retire a Saint. This is why he restructured his contract for almost the league minimum and the Saints would be foolish to go down that road. Deuce is the Saints sacred cow, our Jerome Bettis. He will go nowhere until the wheels fall off. Folks who own Pierre Thomas in Dynasty or something would love this but as a fan I'm telling you it isnt happening.

 

[RudeDog]

These guys are elite athletes working out hard all the time. Why would they take a water pill to lose weight? I'm sure it was not to mask something....

thinking the same thing, why would NFL players want to lose water weight? These guys aren't wrestlers.

Diuretics, or "water" pills are used to mask other drug usage. They act to flush the system, that is why they are banned.

 

[-baller]

-- Deuce McAllister & Will Smith Won't be Suspended before Game in London --Fri Oct 24, 2008ESPN reports despite multiple reports that they've failed tests for taking water pills, violating the NFL's steroids policy, New Orleans Saints RB Deuce McAllister and DE Will Smith are both expected to play Sunday against the Chargers in London. The players' potential suspensions will not be handed down before Week 9 and they could easily be appealed, creating further delay.

Is it interesting that when it's to the NFL's benefit, they hold off on a suspension? They are two more important players for the Saints and taking them away could lead to less than stellar showing for our over sea's viewers. As long as it serves them well, they bend the rules. Had this been two Raiders, the BOOM would have come down already. Just saying...

dude, let's not be stupid about this -- there's a whole list of players who aren't getting suspended this week besides a couple new orleans players.although, now that you mention it, suspending the raiders would be a pretty good idea for the league......

 

[NatronIsMean]

From the article

“There are about six to ten overall positive tests. Three to four of them are from the Saints organization alone including McAllister and Smith.

The source told Anderson there were no Denver Broncos players that were a part of this group.

McAllister and Smith are in a group of players that have tested positive specifically for a diuretic known as Bumetanide. Some of the players in the group of six to ten tested positive for a different substance.

"Most of them tested positive for Bumetanide," said the league source. "The last few tested positive for another substance that works similarly.”

Experts at the Mayo Clinic describe Bumetanide as a drug belonging to a group of medicines called loop diuretics or “water pills.” Its uses include the treatment of fluid retention and swelling caused by medical conditions such as congestive heart failure, liver disease, and kidney disease.

However, the source told Anderson that Bumetanide has another use which makes it one of the NFL’s banned substances.

“[bumetanide] can also mask the use of other drugs or steroids.”

Dr. Norman Smith, the lead physician at an internal medical practice in Maryland confirmed this assertion to Fox 31 Sports.

“Bumetanide makes you excrete a lot of salt and water. It dilutes the urine and makes it very difficult to test for illegal substances. There are some patients who use or abuse it where weight is critical,” Dr. Smith said.

Weight loss is the main reason the highly-placed league source identifies as to why this group of NFL players tested positive for this drug. “It seems to be clear that most of these players were doing it to cut weight.”

When the source was asked how they’re more confident these players used Bumetanide as a weight loss agent as opposed to a masking agent, the source replied, “I know that a few of these players have had weight issues.”

The source also suggested some of the players may not have known Bumetanide is on the NFL’s list of banned substances.

“I don’t think many of them are attempting to cheat, or even know it is on the list. We are talking big guys who have likely never seen a steroid in their life. My understanding of the steroid policy is that it was intended to catch cheaters or people using performance enhancing substances to gain a competitive edge. These guys don’t fall into that category,” said the source.

Regardless, all of the players in this group of positive tests, including McAllister and Smith, are subject to a suspension pending an appeal to the league. Under the NFL’s steroid policy, a player’s first positive test results in a four-game suspension.

My problem with this logic is that steroids are NOTORIOUSLY used to return more quickly from injury. Does Deuce meet that description? Uh, YEAH. Weight could be an issue for McAllister, though I doubt it. Steroids or any other substance that could help him return from an injury makes sense. I can't say I know, but steroids make more sense to me for him.

 

[NatronIsMean]

If Deuce losses the appeal it could be 4 games. He will play in London. He took a banned Diet substance.Stecker will get the majority of the Work without Deuce and Reggie and PT will get some looks. Just remember though, 4 games does not make a season. Bush and Deuce will both be back and your WW pickup will return to the WW fodder it once was.Enjoy the points while you can get them PS Stecker will be the Goal line Back with some Mike Karney. Pierre has already failed in short yardage situations.

Wrong. Pierre Thomas did not fail in short yardage per Peyton himself. There was a quote a while back before Deuce returned where Peyton blamed the line. And since Deuce has been in, there have been several Deuce short yardage failures. I think it is: PT backs up Deuce. Stecker backs up Bush. There's some blending of course so that whoever is in does not become too predictable, but that I think is fairly clear.

 

[NatronIsMean]

With so many players involved..and its a borderline drug (league wise), I think this will be held over until after the season ends.

A drug that is used to mask steroids won't be treated lightly IMO.

 

[TitusIII]

I can't feel bad for them, they have the money to be way ahead of the testing...

 

[Breesisdaman]

Wrong. Pierre Thomas did not fail in short yardage per Peyton himself. There was a quote a while back before Deuce returned where Peyton blamed the line. And since Deuce has been in, there have been several Deuce short yardage failures. I think it is: PT backs up Deuce. Stecker backs up Bush. There's some blending of course so that whoever is in does not become too predictable, but that I think is fairly clear.

I watch the Saints. Been here in the city 20 years following them. Believe what you want if you think I'm wrong. While the coach is right thatThe line isn't Stellar isnt it funny that when Deuce got the same opportunities behind the same line he was averaging over 5 yards per carry. Deuce is a true power back, Pierre is too small , smaller than Stecker and he goes down when met by the first tackler at least this year he has, last year he ran better but I am not sure why. Stecker is higher on the depth chart so I expect him, not PT when and if ever Deuce is suspended. Infact here is a fact for you- Pierre thomas has never been featured in the Saints backfield when Stecker has been healthy enough to play. And regardless of this who is starting senario this is only 4 games deuce would be out and not the rest of the season. None of these guys are on my radar because for the most part in a Sean Payton offense they will block for the passing play. Brees is what makes that offense go and not the run.

My problem with this logic is that steroids are NOTORIOUSLY used to return more quickly from injury. Does Deuce meet that description? Uh, YEAH. Weight could be an issue for McAllister, though I doubt it. Steroids or any other substance that could help him return from an injury makes sense. I can't say I know, but steroids make more sense to me for him.

I got to meet Deuce and his wife back in July just before the pre season. He was eating at wonderful local establishment in the clearview mall in Metairie La. called "Zea's" which features meat from the grill and home made Lager from the big copper vats that they have in the restaurant . Deuce still had a ways to go back then with his weight but he wasn't in what I would call terrible shape. If he was watching his weight in July this was a place that you could easily fall off the wagon. Deuce is not the type to do illegal substances though so I doubt he was trying to mask anything with Bumetanide. It has to be weight related.

 

[KellysHeroes]

With so many players involved..and its a borderline drug (league wise), I think this will be held over until after the season ends.

A drug that is used to mask steroids won't be treated lightly IMO.

The fact that a dozen or so vets have gotten caught so far means to me that more are taking this same drug... word must of gotten out to the players that they could juice it up and mask the Juice w/ this stuff. Lets face it, I would bet that the NFL has a much bigger drug problem than MLB... you just don't hear about it. But look at the size of the players... huge.

I can't feel bad for them, they have the money to be way ahead of the testing...

very true.. the drugs are almost always ahead of the tests.