DFS data leak: employees cheating? (2 Viewers)

[Gustavo Fring]

I think if they open up the ownership percentages to be fully transparent prior to lock eliminates all skill involved with DFS. The name of the game is finding that low owned, high-upside play that no one else is one, to take down a big GPP.

Sometimes these low owned, high upside plays are top salary tier guys that get overlooked because another top salary guy has a "can't miss" matchup. The most recent example is a couple weeks ago when Julio Jones went off for >35 pts on DK versus the Cowboys (and AJ Green vs Baltimore) and everyone was on Antonio Brown that week versus the Rams and Brandon Marshall vs Philly. Julio was ~10% owned that day on most sites (AJ < 10%) and Antonio Brown and Brandon Marshall were both at 30%+ ownership. Given the price range, and the ability to see ownership %'s, people are much more likely to gravitate towards Julio and AJ Green when they saw how high of ownership Marshall and Brown were trending at prior to lock. Long story short, AJ and Julio went off, and Brown/Marshall had mediocre days...you had a great shot to win GPPs if you play Julio and AJ but this would have been diluted IMO if people had access to ownership %'s pre-lock.

If I had the choice, I would go for no ownership %'s at any site, as there is skill in being able to predict who will be highly owned or low owned in a given week. Providing this information to everyone takes a lot the fun (and skill) out of the game in my opinion.

Ugh. I tried to argue with this and didn't like my take after more consideration.

My fear goes to the conspiracy stuff I see as a cancer. If the information is secret how do we know for sure some insiders don't know the secret. It's become a trust issue. A loud public and political outcry is best avoided. So I guess I want all or nothing. Stop releasing the information altogether or put it out as close to real time as possible.

I definitely agree that there would be trust issues that could arise out of this scenario. These sites need to get the proper controls in place internally to eliminate a lot of the negative perception that has been growing these past few days, in order to start regaining the public's trust again. I just think not releasing any type of ownership information would be better for the game in the long run, opposed to allowing everyone to see it, assuming the sites are able to get proper controls in place to eliminate trust issues that are currently happening (for good reason) at the moment.

 

[SIDA!]

What's preventing DFS employees wives, friends, etc from playing and benefiting from their work knowledge?

Nothing.

Exactly.

Because we know every inside trader actually buys the stock in their own name...

Basically, everybody who agrees to play goes in realizing that it is a stacked deck and not a level playing field similar to walking into a casino.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

What's preventing DFS employees wives, friends, etc from playing and benefiting from their work knowledge?

Nothing.

Exactly.

Because we know every inside trader actually buys the stock in their own name...

Basically, everybody who agrees to play goes in realizing that it is a stacked deck and not a level playing field similar to walking into a casino.

Casinos don't hide the fact that there's a house advantage. They also don't (or can't) hide the fact that they do not welcome people like card-counters who try and flip that advantage. Sports books are the same way.

You can know exactly what your negative expectation is when you enter a casino to play craps, or roulette. With DFS it's potentially more nefarious, because you don't know the extent to which insider information is being leveraged against you. Honestly it's more akin to a carny game at this point.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

If I had the choice, I would go for no ownership %'s at any site, as there is skill in being able to predict who will be highly owned or low owned in a given week. Providing this information to everyone takes a lot the fun (and skill) out of the game in my opinion.

But that information still exists somewhere within the company's system, and can still be leveraged by company employees or their proxies.

I'd also think that some enterprising individuals could scrape the rosters of all entrants and get a pretty good idea of what ownership %'s are, after lineups are revealed.

 

[Seekay]

Draftkings official statement looks like it was altered version of fanduel's statement

 

[James Daulton]

I still contend that the money is so big and the companies made themselves so visible through their barrage of ads that this will mark the beginning of the end for DFS. Politicians love to go after gambling, and when they catch wind it's rigged, I'm thinking it's game over.

 

[Sammy3469]

I still contend that the money is so big and the companies made themselves so visible through their barrage of ads that this will mark the beginning of the end for DFS. Politicians love to go after gambling, and when they catch wind it's rigged, I'm thinking it's game over.

The current NY AD doesn't mess around with "consumer affairs" cases. My guess is these guys know that which is why they brought in Mukasey and Garcia. You don't bring in former prosecutors of that stature unless you think you will be in a long and potentially dangerous legal fight.

 

[snellman]

Draftkings official statement looks like it was altered version of fanduel's statement

not to sound too , but these last few days make one wonder if these two are sleeping in the same bed together.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

gravy train is winding down soon. thank god too because Im sick of the ads

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Draftkings official statement looks like it was altered version of fanduel's statement

not to sound too , but these last few days make one wonder if these two are sleeping in the same bed together.

As far as the industry goes, sure they are. I said weeks ago that the recent ad barrage had little to do with FD and DK battling each other. It was designed to stomp out the potential threat from outfits like CBS and Yahoo. Those guys already have robust fantasy games across all sports, so the built-in advertising fora they have are huge. They represent a threat to the duopoly. FD and DK are happy to trade off "supremacy" between them, so long as they can combine for ~85% of the market.

This blow-up is a serious threat to both of them equally. I bet they've met daily about all of this and have jointly agreed on how to approach it.

 

[Peyton Marino]

oh this sounds... bad

 

[Fantasysports1]

I still contend that the money is so big and the companies made themselves so visible through their barrage of ads that this will mark the beginning of the end for DFS. Politicians love to go after gambling, and when they catch wind it's rigged, I'm thinking it's game over.

No. It is not rigged. Once this is over, you will see you are incorrect. Nothing is rigged, if you can't win consistently then you are not good enough.

 

[karmarooster]

I'm looking forward to an in-depth discussion of this whole thing from FBGs on the upcoming episodes of the Audible, Fanduel and Draftkings podcasts, and On the Couch.

I mean, surely they will give lots of air time to a story this big on the front page of the NYTimes, CNN, BusinessInsider, ESPN... pretty much every mainstream media outlet. Just today in the Washington Post: NY Attorney General Launches Investigation.

I would also like it if FBGs, representing their subscribers and the boat-load of referrals they have pushed the way of Fanduel and Draftkings (in return for revenue) would write an open letter -- asking for transparency in the disclosure, a full accounting of who had what info when, and more importantly, how many employees won how much money. Basically an open letter asking for an honest accounting.

Not that such a letter would be certain to accomplish all that much... but if FBGs is going to take subscribers' money and push them to these sites in exchange for revenue and NOT cover the biggest DFS story to date and NOT at least put in a good effort in "representing" the interests of the subscribers, it would smack of censorship or at least selective coverage in a way that is beneficial only to their own financial interests and not their subscribers.

Like I said, looking forward to it. Dodds, Sig, Lammey, Joe Bryant -- hoping you guys rise to the occasion on this one.

I haven't listen to the episode yet... but the Podcast blurb for On the Couch:

"Sigmund Bloom and Evan Silva talk NFL and Fantasy Football. Topics include: Will the Philadelphia, Miami and Indianapolis offenses get on track, Is Todd Gurley for real, WIll things get better for Melvin Gordon, plus more!"

Again, haven't listened yet... so just looking at the description (could be "plus more!")... but not talking about this on FBGs media is suspicious. You have a chance here to set yourself apart from Rotogrinders, who are actively banning people and pushing a very one-sided agenda (obviously due to a major conflict of interest). Why not take the high ground and discuss this in-depth, with full transparency that you are partners with DFS sites? That's how you gain integrity, and set yourself apart from your peers.

How can this story be on CNN, NYT, Washington Post, ESPN, Business Insider, Deadspin, etc. etc. and yet not be mentioned on any FBGs content (so far... still holding out hope for your integrity)? For fairness sake, I'll also point out that this story is not featured on Rotoworld, either.

http://crackingfanduel.footballguys.com/ --> Blog would be the perfect place. Has just one update this week.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=wachtelfanduelweek5spotlight --> any DFS "spotlight" should probably "highlight" the biggest story in DFS history.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

oh this sounds... bad

No doubt they were using inside info to steal money from people. They belong in jail for not being upfront about it. It's amazing to me Bryant and Dodds are still connected to them in any fashion.

 

[karmarooster]

Just to illustrate the jarring juxtaposition of coverage on this story by main stream media, left wing media, right wing media, sports media, high brow media, low brow media:

1. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html?mabReward=A4&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&region=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine&_r=0
2. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/espn-draftkings-sponsored-ads_561514dce4b0fad1591a19fc?utm_hp_ref=sports&ir=Sports&section=sports
3. http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/10/07/draftkings-fanduel-seek-to-dispel-criticism-launch-internal-reviews/
4. http://www.businessinsider.com/draftkings-daily-fantasy-sports-fanduel-2015-10?_ga=1.78458455.232292381.1443817513
5. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/10/07/new-york-attorney-general-launches-inqury-into-draftkings-and-fanduel/
6. http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/05/news/companies/fantasy-sports-draftkings-fanduel/
7. http://deadspin.com/report-draftkings-and-fanduel-being-investigated-by-ne-1735088955

And the lack of coverage within the "industry":

1. Zero FBGs content (so far)
2. Zero Rotoworld content
3. ONE "Community Blog Post" on Rotogrinders : https://rotogrinders.com/blog-posts/social-responsibility-and-dfs-869840

 

[NixonMask]

oh this sounds... bad

No doubt they were using inside info to steal money from people. They belong in jail for not being upfront about it. It's amazing to me Bryant and Dodds are still connected to them in any fashion.

They operate a fantasy football content site. What do you expect them to do? They haven't done anything wrong. We don't even know exactly what draftkings/fanduel was doing yet.

 

[shady inc]

Just to illustrate the jarring juxtaposition of coverage on this story by main stream media, left wing media, right wing media, sports media, high brow media, low brow media:

1. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html?mabReward=A4&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&region=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine&_r=0
2. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/espn-draftkings-sponsored-ads_561514dce4b0fad1591a19fc?utm_hp_ref=sports&ir=Sports&section=sports
3. http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/10/07/draftkings-fanduel-seek-to-dispel-criticism-launch-internal-reviews/
4. http://www.businessinsider.com/draftkings-daily-fantasy-sports-fanduel-2015-10?_ga=1.78458455.232292381.1443817513
5. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/10/07/new-york-attorney-general-launches-inqury-into-draftkings-and-fanduel/
6. http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/05/news/companies/fantasy-sports-draftkings-fanduel/
7. http://deadspin.com/report-draftkings-and-fanduel-being-investigated-by-ne-1735088955

And the lack of coverage within the "industry":

1. Zero FBGs content (so far)
2. Zero Rotoworld content
3. ONE "Community Blog Post" on Rotogrinders : https://rotogrinders.com/blog-posts/social-responsibility-and-dfs-869840

crack dealers don't go around telling their customers crack is bad...

 

[Peyton Marino]

oh this sounds... bad

No doubt they were using inside info to steal money from people. They belong in jail for not being upfront about it. It's amazing to me Bryant and Dodds are still connected to them in any fashion.

They operate a fantasy football content site. What do you expect them to do? They haven't done anything wrong. We don't even know exactly what draftkings/fanduel was doing yet.

Did you read my link?

 

[Scoresman]

I'd rather they focus on advising me who to put in my 50/50 lineups than post yet another opinion on the internet about this subject.

 

[karmarooster]

I'd rather they focus on advising me who to put in my 50/50 lineups than post yet another opinion on the internet about this subject.

That have something like 500 content articles per week. I'm sure they can do both.

 

[Scoresman]

I'd rather they focus on advising me who to put in my 50/50 lineups than post yet another opinion on the internet about this subject.

That have something like 500 content articles per week. I'm sure they can do both.

I want more. DFS advice is my heroin.

 

[NixonMask]

oh this sounds... bad

No doubt they were using inside info to steal money from people. They belong in jail for not being upfront about it. It's amazing to me Bryant and Dodds are still connected to them in any fashion.

They operate a fantasy football content site. What do you expect them to do? They haven't done anything wrong. We don't even know exactly what draftkings/fanduel was doing yet.

Did you read my link?

I did. And it does look bad. For Draftkings. Im all for pointing fingers, but Footballguys, and even as far as I can tell Rotogrinders cant be accused of anything other than trying to stay out of a mess that isnt of their making.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

oh this sounds... bad

No doubt they were using inside info to steal money from people. They belong in jail for not being upfront about it. It's amazing to me Bryant and Dodds are still connected to them in any fashion.

Relax, Max.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

gravy train is winding down soon. thank god too because Im sick of the ads

I watched live football for the first time this season this past weekend due to work schedule and was amazed how many TV ads their were. And I thought the amount of ads online was bad. (Somehow I still get them even with Ad Blocker lol)

Was really considering transitioning to playing daily a couple times a season next year to transition away from season long leagues but no way after this breaking.

 

[Chaos Commish]

oh this sounds... bad

Oof, and the current last post in the thread confirms same happened to him regarding gripe #2.

 

[SIDA!]

oh this sounds... bad

No doubt they were using inside info to steal money from people. They belong in jail for not being upfront about it. It's amazing to me Bryant and Dodds are still connected to them in any fashion.

They operate a fantasy football content site. What do you expect them to do? They haven't done anything wrong. We don't even know exactly what draftkings/fanduel was doing yet.

They have a whole forum dedicated to the subject. Are you serious?

 

[NixonMask]

Correct. They have a user forum for people like you and me to talk about DFS. They also have a forum dedicated to pop culture, do they need to speak on the Mr. Robot finale too?

 

[SIDA!]

Correct. They have a user forum for people like you and me to talk about DFS. They also have a forum dedicated to pop culture, do they need to speak on the Mr. Robot finale too?

Do they make money off of the Mr. Robot finale if I watch it?

 

[NixonMask]

Are they accused of any misconduct? I understand people want statements from important figures in the community, but often times the smartest course of action for people in their position is to wait until they have actual information to inform that statement. Im certainly not speaking for them, but I would assume they will enter the conversation when they feel they have something to add.

Until then Im happy to keep up the knee-jerk speculation right there with you.

 

[SIDA!]

Are they accused of any misconduct? I understand people want statements from important figures in the community, but often times the smartest course of action for people in their position is to wait until they have actual information to inform that statement. Im certainly not speaking for them, but I would assume they will enter the conversation when they feel they have something to add.

Until then Im happy to keep up the knee-jerk speculation right there with you.

What knee-jerk speculation have I engaged in?

 

[NixonMask]

Are they accused of any misconduct? I understand people want statements from important figures in the community, but often times the smartest course of action for people in their position is to wait until they have actual information to inform that statement. Im certainly not speaking for them, but I would assume they will enter the conversation when they feel they have something to add.

Until then Im happy to keep up the knee-jerk speculation right there with you.

What knee-jerk speculation have I engaged in?

Ok, Im happy to keep up the knee-jerk speculation.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I am ready to issue a statement. I speak only for myself, and not on behalf of Footballguys or its other staff members or owners.

My statement is as follows:

I sure hope everything works out okay.

 

[RUSF18]

They aren't shutting down our discussions (even though with multiple threads spanning three forums, they probably could...and they probably would as a normal course of business if it wouldn't look bad to do so). They've also publicly commented in these threads. I'm not sure what extra benefit would come from an "official" response that wouldn't be done generic BS.

 

[Seekay]

Any reports of Ethan Haskell quitting Draft Kings today?

Why would he stay with the roll he has been on. He can't play DFS as a DraftKings employees right? *wink* *wink*

I mean he don't need that job or the information he can obtain from it. He crunched the numbers himself and it was a legit. Right? so we been told. He could easily open his open subscription based web site giving tips and picks. Allowing everyonea taste of his highly advanced DFS logic. Why not, right?

Maybe the only other way to describe his accuracy recently is he jumped into a Deloren and went into the future to get a sportsbook like Biff did. Afterall the date in which Marty McFly went into the future is not far off. (Oct 21, 2015)

 

[Steeler]

oh this sounds... bad

Yeah, that all sounds really bad.

 

[Willie Neslon]

Matthew Berry say anything about this? Sent tens of thousands of people to these sites. Just not even going to acknowledge it?

 

[jandyt]

Fantasyscore is now making ownership % available for all to see both historical and current.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Fantasyscore is now making ownership % available for all to see both historical and current.

So everyone can now reverse-engineer FD ownership stats like Ethan, right?

 

[jandyt]

Fantasyscore is now making ownership % available for all to see both historical and current.

So everyone can now reverse-engineer FD ownership stats like Ethan, right?

You can certainly try.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Fantasyscore is now making ownership % available for all to see both historical and current.

So everyone can now reverse-engineer FD ownership stats like Ethan, right?

You can certainly try.

I can't/won't because I think the edge given by such data is being grossly overstated with respect to another site's contests.

But lots of folks were pretty convinced that all this Ethan dude needed was ownership data from one site to frigging dominate another. Now those folks have that golden ticket too.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Fantasyscore is now making ownership % available for all to see both historical and current.

So everyone can now reverse-engineer FD ownership stats like Ethan, right?

You can certainly try.

I can't/won't because I think the edge given by such data is being grossly overstated with respect to another site's contests.

But lots of folks were pretty convinced that all this Ethan dude needed was ownership data from one site to frigging dominate another. Now those folks have that golden ticket too.

Ethan had a lot more help than ownership percentages. No one is THAT good in one month.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Fantasyscore is now making ownership % available for all to see both historical and current.

So everyone can now reverse-engineer FD ownership stats like Ethan, right?

You can certainly try.

I can't/won't because I think the edge given by such data is being grossly overstated with respect to another site's contests.But lots of folks were pretty convinced that all this Ethan dude needed was ownership data from one site to frigging dominate another. Now those folks have that golden ticket too.

Ethan had a lot more help than ownership percentages. No one is THAT good in one month.

That's where things have morphed. But scroll back to the beginning of this thread. Plenty of folks were pretty confident that getting ownership percentages from site A would be a "huge" edge that would enable any number of them to thrive on site B.

 

[Bobcat10]

Fantasyscore is now making ownership % available for all to see both historical and current.

So everyone can now reverse-engineer FD ownership stats like Ethan, right?

You can certainly try.

I can't/won't because I think the edge given by such data is being grossly overstated with respect to another site's contests.

But lots of folks were pretty convinced that all this Ethan dude needed was ownership data from one site to frigging dominate another. Now those folks have that golden ticket too.

Ethan had a lot more help than ownership percentages. No one is THAT good in one month.

That's what I think too. If the guy can access DK ownership rates, I'm sure he can access just about anything he wants, like actual lineups from actual people. Then who knows what is being done after that.

Maybe



Maybe not...

 

[Bobcat10]

Fantasyscore is now making ownership % available for all to see both historical and current.

So everyone can now reverse-engineer FD ownership stats like Ethan, right?

You can certainly try.

I can't/won't because I think the edge given by such data is being grossly overstated with respect to another site's contests.But lots of folks were pretty convinced that all this Ethan dude needed was ownership data from one site to frigging dominate another. Now those folks have that golden ticket too.

Ethan had a lot more help than ownership percentages. No one is THAT good in one month.

That's where things have morphed. But scroll back to the beginning of this thread. Plenty of folks were pretty confident that getting ownership percentages from site A would be a "huge" edge that would enable any number of them to thrive on site B.

Point taken.

 

[tjnc09]

Fantasyscore is now making ownership % available for all to see both historical and current.

So everyone can now reverse-engineer FD ownership stats like Ethan, right?

You can certainly try.

I can't/won't because I think the edge given by such data is being grossly overstated with respect to another site's contests.But lots of folks were pretty convinced that all this Ethan dude needed was ownership data from one site to frigging dominate another. Now those folks have that golden ticket too.

Ethan had a lot more help than ownership percentages. No one is THAT good in one month.

That's what I think too. If the guy can access DK ownership rates, I'm sure he can access just about anything he wants, like actual lineups from actual people. Then who knows what is being done after that.Maybe



Maybe not...

I would think a fair market price for FanDuel % would be Draft King % if one were to barter. It isn't unreasonable to believe that could happen.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Fwiw Draft Kings has also permanently banned employees from playing at any site. I anticipate job openings there.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I still contend that the money is so big and the companies made themselves so visible through their barrage of ads that this will mark the beginning of the end for DFS. Politicians love to go after gambling, and when they catch wind it's rigged, I'm thinking it's game over.

No. It is not rigged. Once this is over, you will see you are incorrect. Nothing is rigged, if you can't win consistently then you are not good enough.

You clearly work for them or have a vested interest in the dfs sites

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

The other thing FD and DK needs to do is export every lineup in a contest to a CSV or excel file and send it to the participants in that contest. Would stop concerns about lineup changing. They manage to send me 100 promotional emails so I'm sure their servers could handle it. Or but better servers. Ethan can afford them.

 

[Peyton Marino]

Fantasyscore is now making ownership % available for all to see both historical and current.

So everyone can now reverse-engineer FD ownership stats like Ethan, right?

You can certainly try.

I can't/won't because I think the edge given by such data is being grossly overstated with respect to another site's contests.

But lots of folks were pretty convinced that all this Ethan dude needed was ownership data from one site to frigging dominate another. Now those folks have that golden ticket too.

I don't think there are enough people playing on that site yet to make it a representative sample of the whole marketplace. But who knows, I'll definitely give it a shot. Also, keep in mind that other sharp players will know about this and look at it. Part of the reason Ethan's info was so valuable in the original context was that no one else had it.

 

[cheese]

The other thing FD and DK needs to do is export every lineup in a contest to a CSV or excel file and send it to the participants in that contest. Would stop concerns about lineup changing. They manage to send me 100 promotional emails so I'm sure their servers could handle it. Or but better servers. Ethan can afford them.

They already do CSVs, but I'm not sure how to get a copy. Maybe request it?I don't believe they intentionally let people change lineups. Risking throwing away a billion dollar company and going to jail for fraud. Is it worth it? Doubt it

I would be slightly concerned about hackers though and I think the CSV would help with that. I'm sure the sites already check it that way though. It would take 5 minutes to cross reference a 1p CSV file to the final rosters at payout CSV