DFS data leak: employees cheating? (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

I wouldn't be too concerned about rakes going up. As it is, it's inconceiveably high. If FD and DK weren't buying every ad space available in the universe, they could be profiting nicely at 5%. If the poker sites could work at a lower rake, dfs should be able too.

I've seen a number of people say this (unless it was you every time and I wasn't paying attention ) and I used to say something similar. But I've been assured by people who are in a position to know that this is false. DFS sites will never be profitable at less than a 10% rake (even without advertising), and therefore the rake will never fall below 10%.

I know, I know, that's hard for me to believe as well. But that's what the owners of these sites have said privately to people they have no reason to lie to.

 

[Marauder]

In the Rotogrinders interview the Draftkings CEO said all employees had equity. Not sure of the specifics, but forfeiting that prior to an IPO would be nuts.

Personally if they are as good at dfs as everyone is saying, they would be better off cashing in now. Between the huge advertising costs, regulation coming, lawsuits, and dilution, I can't imagine that equity being worth that much.

The equity is probably in the form of options that haven't vested, so they can't cash in now.

By cashing in now, I meant using their superior dfs skills to make a living playing dfs rather than waiting on the options to vest.

I'm not sold on the long term viability of this dfs model. The 10-12.5% just seems like to much to keep the fish around. Also as more pros get involved, the average player is going to struggle to be successful.

Not only that, the sites have done everything they can to make it more favorable to the pros - allowing unlimited entries in GPPs, making it easier to join many cash game tables, even inviting the biggest players on expensive junkets. Short term they make more money by doing this because they make their money off the rake and it allows them to advertise huge payouts which brings in more fish, but there is no way this business model is sustainable long term. As the pros win more and more of the money they will be cashing more and as the average players keep going broke many of them are going to drop out of the player pool. This business model depends on an endlless stream of new players but that can't go on forever. At some point, the new money coming in will be less than the money being cashed out and they have to know it. They are acting like they don't expect their businesses to be around in 5 years so they need to make as much money as they can as fast as they can. If they really planning on this being a long term business they would be trying to keep more of the average players in the game, instead they are doing the opposite.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

They are acting like they don't expect their businesses to be around in 5 years so they need to make as much money as they can as fast as they can.

It's just the opposite. They are losing as much money as they can as fast as they can with the expectation that things will eventually turn around.

 

[BassNBrew]

I wouldn't be too concerned about rakes going up. As it is, it's inconceiveably high. If FD and DK weren't buying every ad space available in the universe, they could be profiting nicely at 5%. If the poker sites could work at a lower rake, dfs should be able too.

I've seen a number of people say this (unless it was you every time and I wasn't paying attention ) and I used to say something similar. But I've been assured by people who are in a position to know that this is false. DFS sites will never be profitable at less than a 10% rake (even without advertising), and therefore the rake will never fall below 10%.

I know, I know, that's hard for me to believe as well. But that's what the owners of these sites have said privately to people they have no reason to lie to.

MT - How does this even make sense?

Outside of setting prices and releasing contests, which can't be any more complicated than 2% of what FBGs does each week, how much work is there? The poker and gambling websites don't have any problems running at a lower rake. Even e-bay runs at 10% and they have no competition. In time once the huge growth curve stops someone will find it more effective to go to 8% rather than spending more on advertising than Hillary and Trump combined and renting out luxury suites for the pros. With as much money that's on the table, someone will step in and take a shot at this. It may be some company in India or China that operates at much lower overhead.

Your contacts may be saying this privately, but they are fat right now and spending like drunken sailors. When push comes to shove they will find a way to run leaner. It's happened in most industries that aren't monopolies.

 

[John Lee]

I wouldn't be too concerned about rakes going up. As it is, it's inconceiveably high. If FD and DK weren't buying every ad space available in the universe, they could be profiting nicely at 5%. If the poker sites could work at a lower rake, dfs should be able too.

I've seen a number of people say this (unless it was you every time and I wasn't paying attention ) and I used to say something similar. But I've been assured by people who are in a position to know that this is false. DFS sites will never be profitable at less than a 10% rake (even without advertising), and therefore the rake will never fall below 10%.

I know, I know, that's hard for me to believe as well. But that's what the owners of these sites have said privately to people they have no reason to lie to.

This is directly from Nigel at FD...dated last year.

https://rotogrinders.com/threads/how-do-dfs-sites-make-any-money-61144?page=2

Some of the numbers have changed, but I think that post should give you an idea of where the money goes. The STATS, Inc. feed is reported to be very expensive, but I have never been able to track down an exact number...but you can add that to the list.

In a personal conversation with Nigel a few months ago, he told me the average acquisition cost for a new player under the most recent advertising campaign and I thought it was fairly reasonable...but he reminded me that the vast majority of players do not play at the level I play at (both volume and buy-in) and that it takes them over a year to break even with those new players.

 

[Bri]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

If they data they (employees of DK and FD) were using to build lineups wasn't helpful in giving them an advantage to beat the general public then they wouldn't be using that data. It has nothing to do with where one individual finished. Your post is pretty idiotic acting as if only the person one spot behind Ethan has the right to have an opinion about his shadiness.

Only a moron would believe that ALL Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel. It's amazing what people will believe. I'm not stunned the people that make money off DFS (John Lee being employed here because of DFS, for example) will defend everything about it. But the general public is smarter than this, right?

 

[Rock Lonemilk]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

If they data they (employees of DK and FD) were using to build lineups wasn't helpful in giving them an advantage to beat the general public then they wouldn't be using that data. It has nothing to do with where one individual finished. Your post is pretty idiotic acting as if only the person one spot behind Ethan has the right to have an opinion about his shadiness.

Only a moron would believe that ALL Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel. It's amazing what people will believe. I'm not stunned the people that make money off DFS (John Lee being employed here because of DFS, for example) will defend everything about it. But the general public is smarter than this, right?

Do you act like this in real life, or just when you're on the Internet? Stop the name calling and contribute to the conversation or shut up.

 

[NixonMask]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

If they data they (employees of DK and FD) were using to build lineups wasn't helpful in giving them an advantage to beat the general public then they wouldn't be using that data. It has nothing to do with where one individual finished. Your post is pretty idiotic acting as if only the person one spot behind Ethan has the right to have an opinion about his shadiness.

Only a moron would believe that ALL Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel. It's amazing what people will believe. I'm not stunned the people that make money off DFS (John Lee being employed here because of DFS, for example) will defend everything about it. But the general public is smarter than this, right?

I think we can all be thankful that a third party, that has the trust and integrity to be believed, is investigating these claims. We will know the answer to these questions soon enough. We wont need to take Draftkings word for it. Until then calling them liars and cheats is just supposition.

 

[Willie Neslon]

I don't understand finding fault with the public reaction rather than the policy of these sites. Their policy is to blame here. That's what got them into trouble. The reaction may not be entirely fair toward that one employee but the public did nothing wrong. Any company that runs any kind of contest would make rule #1 employees not be eligible for prizes. I realize these guys weren't allowed to play on their own sites but for this industry it should have extended to those competing sites as well. They were shortsighted here. The public's current skepticism toward these sites is completely justified whether or not anyone used the data for their advantage.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

If they data they (employees of DK and FD) were using to build lineups wasn't helpful in giving them an advantage to beat the general public then they wouldn't be using that data.

Right, I think there's a very good chance they weren't using it.

Only a moron would believe that ALL Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel.

Whether or not he used data from DK, that's obviously not all he did. He probably checked injury reports and stuff as well. And got super lucky. (There's no disputing that getting super lucky was the biggest factor in his win, is there? Even if he somehow found a way to double or triple his expected ROI by cheating, that would only explain about 0.0001% of his results in the NFL contest.)

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

If they data they (employees of DK and FD) were using to build lineups wasn't helpful in giving them an advantage to beat the general public then they wouldn't be using that data.

Right, I think there's a very good chance they weren't using it.

Only a moron would believe that ALL Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel.

Whether or not he used data from DK, that's obviously not all he did. He probably checked injury reports and stuff as well. And got super lucky. (There's no disputing that getting super lucky was the biggest factor in his win, is there? Even if he somehow found a way to double or triple his expected ROI by cheating, that would only explain about 0.0001% of his results in the NFL contest.)

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Sure, no one is doing anything wrong.

https://twitter.com/stevietpfl/status/652945544596336641/photo/1

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

If they data they (employees of DK and FD) were using to build lineups wasn't helpful in giving them an advantage to beat the general public then they wouldn't be using that data. It has nothing to do with where one individual finished. Your post is pretty idiotic acting as if only the person one spot behind Ethan has the right to have an opinion about his shadiness.

Only a moron would believe that ALL Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel. It's amazing what people will believe. I'm not stunned the people that make money off DFS (John Lee being employed here because of DFS, for example) will defend everything about it. But the general public is smarter than this, right?

Do you act like this in real life, or just when you're on the Internet? Stop the name calling and contribute to the conversation or shut up.

You're lecturing me for the word idiotic and telling me to shut up like an internet tough guy. Pure comedy

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Sure, no one is doing anything wrong.

https://twitter.com/stevietpfl/status/652945544596336641/photo/1

these companies totally screwed the pooch this year with the bombardment of ads. gonna be the end of it

 

[Bri]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

If they data they (employees of DK and FD) were using to build lineups wasn't helpful in giving them an advantage to beat the general public then they wouldn't be using that data. It has nothing to do with where one individual finished. Your post is pretty idiotic acting as if only the person one spot behind Ethan has the right to have an opinion about his shadiness.

Only a moron would believe that ALL Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel. It's amazing what people will believe. I'm not stunned the people that make money off DFS (John Lee being employed here because of DFS, for example) will defend everything about it. But the general public is smarter than this, right?

What's with the insults?

I never offered an opinion as to whether it was or wasn't helpful to Ethan- I wrote "Ethan did or didn't cheat."

You write IT has nothing to do with...replying to what? When I read a paragraph to a page long rant by someone on any one of dozens of message boards claiming they would have won if not for Ethan, I'm not allowed to think ummm no you wouldn't? What about when it includes "I have been winning my office FF league for ten years! I know I'm great at FF!"? Am I supposed to feel bad for them and maybe bow to their FF greatness?

Anyone is allowed to be happy, upset or feel however they want, that doesn't mean an entire story how they would have won has any realistic expectation to it?

To insinuate Ethan had an unfair advantage and they should get their money back seems fine by me, but when they add a llllong rant about how they would have won...cmon that's 'fair game.' You spend way too much time on these boards to not know that

I never stated "All Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel" but thanks for the moron comment. Couple posts later you're calling someone an internet tough guy. What's your deal today? What are you so upset about? Were you one of these people posting rants?

If so, then I apologize. Good luck against Ruxin and Taco this year.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

If they data they (employees of DK and FD) were using to build lineups wasn't helpful in giving them an advantage to beat the general public then they wouldn't be using that data. It has nothing to do with where one individual finished. Your post is pretty idiotic acting as if only the person one spot behind Ethan has the right to have an opinion about his shadiness.

Only a moron would believe that ALL Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel. It's amazing what people will believe. I'm not stunned the people that make money off DFS (John Lee being employed here because of DFS, for example) will defend everything about it. But the general public is smarter than this, right?

What's with the insults? I never offered an opinion as to whether it was or wasn't helpful to Ethan- I wrote "Ethan did or didn't cheat."

You write IT has nothing to do with...replying to what? When I read a paragraph to a page long rant by someone on any one of dozens of message boards claiming they would have won if not for Ethan, I'm not allowed to think ummm no you wouldn't? What about when it includes "I have been winning my office FF league for ten years! I know I'm great at FF!"? Am I supposed to feel bad for them and maybe bow to their FF greatness?

Anyone is allowed to be happy, upset or feel however they want, that doesn't mean an entire story how they would have won has any realistic expectation to it?

To insinuate Ethan had an unfair advantage and they should get their money back seems fine by me, but when they add a llllong rant about how they would have won...cmon that's 'fair game.' You spend way too much time on these boards to not know that

I never stated "All Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel" but thanks for the moron comment. Couple posts later you're calling someone an internet tough guy. What's your deal today? What are you so upset about? Were you one of these people posting rants?

If so, then I apologize. Good luck against Ruxin and Taco this year.

I didn't call YOU a moron. I called anyone who thinks that's all he did a moron. Just like you called anyone who thinks they can win without the insider cheating a sore loser. So spare me the name calling lecture please.

 

[freeannyong]

Unfortunately this is my state but I'm sure many others will be following this path soon...

@IBJTheScore: Indiana state lawmakers taking a look at the legality of #DraftKings and #FanDuel. http://ow.ly/Tj6jQ

 

[karmarooster]

New York Times basically wrote an article that expanded on the guy posting on Reddit last week:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/12/sports/fantasy-sports-draftkings-fanduel-insiders-edge-football.html?_r=2

Deadspin then wrote an article covering the NYTimes articles:

http://deadspin.com/daily-fantasy-employees-made-more-playing-at-rival-site-1736061171

At a private party for DraftKings, one of the biggest daily fantasy websites, Calvert said, he discussed his baseball contest choices with a host, Jon Aguiar, an executive of the site, who suddenly made a quick check on his phone and, to Calvert’s surprise, informed him that his pick of a pitcher was a poor choice because many other players had selected him.

“I shouldn’t have pulled that up in front of you, ha-ha,” Calvert said Aguiar told him.

That was days after Calvert, 29, had repeatedly been challenged for head-to-head play in another game, on the website FanDuel, by a Rick Sawyer. After checking a search engine, Calvert said, he found that Sawyer was actually a business planning manager at DraftKings.

Other juicy bits:

After the insider trading allegations surfaced, Calvert emailed Jason Robins, DraftKings’ chief executive and a co-founder, with his complaints. Two days went by without a response.

On Wednesday, he posted his story on Reddit.com. Twenty minutes later, the DraftKings co-founder Matt Kalish called him. On Friday, Robins, Kalish and Liberman — the founders — sent an email intended to mollify their customers, many of whom are concerned.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

If you're a novice/L1 DFS player (such as myself), to think you're not playing a game that's not crooked on some level is completely delusional. The Haskell stuff raised some eyebrows, but that NYT story is pretty damning.

Good luck with your promo codes and stacks and GPP's and such. The big tourneys did huge numbers this week, so plenty of fish still out there I guess.

 

[eoMMan]

If you're a novice/L1 DFS player (such as myself), to think you're not playing a game that's not crooked on some level is completely delusional. The Haskell stuff raised some eyebrows, but that NYT story is pretty damning.

Good luck with your promo codes and stacks and GPP's and such. The big tourneys did huge numbers this week, so plenty of fish still out there I guess.

So you're completely done with it all?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

If you're a novice/L1 DFS player (such as myself), to think you're not playing a game that's not crooked on some level is completely delusional. The Haskell stuff raised some eyebrows, but that NYT story is pretty damning.

Good luck with your promo codes and stacks and GPP's and such. The big tourneys did huge numbers this week, so plenty of fish still out there I guess.

So you're completely done with it all?

I think both companies are fundamentally dishonest enterprises. To advertise and try to attract new users is one thing, but the DFS sites are misrepresenting a new players' chances at success. I also think using the near-unattainable "singup bonus" as a selling point is a little underhanded, given that most people aren't familiar with clearing gambling bonuses and don't realize they're probably never going to see it.

In poker, you could at least play against people at your skill level when you started out, because a sharp could only play so many tables at once and had no use for grinding low-stakes. That's not the case in DFS, where on your first day you're going to find yourself in GPP's up against numerous Condia entries. And you've basically been lured in to get ground up without much of a chance, unless you already have some sort of gambling background. The sharps get some of your money, the site gets some, and you're kicked on your merry way.

Throw on top of that any use of insider information by the big sites, and you're practically toast, unless you have the time to put in to get good at DFS, which I don't. I think it's a fun game on its face and would be interested in playing with GB's or something for small stakes, but not really interested in dealing with these carnies.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

Of course it's gambling. It's also a game of skill, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Gambling is great, btw.

You read the Times story where they interviewed Calvert? If that's an isolated incident, OK, but it seems rather unlikely that this is the only guy who got bumhunted by a DK or FD employee. I'm also guessing that the guy in the Nats luxury box also wasn't the only employee of either company who had access to information that gave them a material advantage.

If both companies employ people who are complete saints and resist the urge to leverage information that would win them six/seven-figures, that...is amazing. But again, chances are that's not the case.

 

[Marauder]

New York Times basically wrote an article that expanded on the guy posting on Reddit last week:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/12/sports/fantasy-sports-draftkings-fanduel-insiders-edge-football.html?_r=2

Deadspin then wrote an article covering the NYTimes articles:

http://deadspin.com/daily-fantasy-employees-made-more-playing-at-rival-site-1736061171

At a private party for DraftKings, one of the biggest daily fantasy websites, Calvert said, he discussed his baseball contest choices with a host, Jon Aguiar, an executive of the site, who suddenly made a quick check on his phone and, to Calvert’s surprise, informed him that his pick of a pitcher was a poor choice because many other players had selected him.

“I shouldn’t have pulled that up in front of you, ha-ha,” Calvert said Aguiar told him.

That was days after Calvert, 29, had repeatedly been challenged for head-to-head play in another game, on the website FanDuel, by a Rick Sawyer. After checking a search engine, Calvert said, he found that Sawyer was actually a business planning manager at DraftKings.

Other juicy bits:

After the insider trading allegations surfaced, Calvert emailed Jason Robins, DraftKings’ chief executive and a co-founder, with his complaints. Two days went by without a response.

On Wednesday, he posted his story on Reddit.com. Twenty minutes later, the DraftKings co-founder Matt Kalish called him. On Friday, Robins, Kalish and Liberman — the founders — sent an email intended to mollify their customers, many of whom are concerned.

Is this the same Jon Aguiar who is a well known poker pro?

 

[Bri]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

If they data they (employees of DK and FD) were using to build lineups wasn't helpful in giving them an advantage to beat the general public then they wouldn't be using that data. It has nothing to do with where one individual finished. Your post is pretty idiotic acting as if only the person one spot behind Ethan has the right to have an opinion about his shadiness.

Only a moron would believe that ALL Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel. It's amazing what people will believe. I'm not stunned the people that make money off DFS (John Lee being employed here because of DFS, for example) will defend everything about it. But the general public is smarter than this, right?

What's with the insults? I never offered an opinion as to whether it was or wasn't helpful to Ethan- I wrote "Ethan did or didn't cheat."

You write IT has nothing to do with...replying to what? When I read a paragraph to a page long rant by someone on any one of dozens of message boards claiming they would have won if not for Ethan, I'm not allowed to think ummm no you wouldn't? What about when it includes "I have been winning my office FF league for ten years! I know I'm great at FF!"? Am I supposed to feel bad for them and maybe bow to their FF greatness?

Anyone is allowed to be happy, upset or feel however they want, that doesn't mean an entire story how they would have won has any realistic expectation to it?

To insinuate Ethan had an unfair advantage and they should get their money back seems fine by me, but when they add a llllong rant about how they would have won...cmon that's 'fair game.' You spend way too much time on these boards to not know that

I never stated "All Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel" but thanks for the moron comment. Couple posts later you're calling someone an internet tough guy. What's your deal today? What are you so upset about? Were you one of these people posting rants?

If so, then I apologize. Good luck against Ruxin and Taco this year.

I didn't call YOU a moron. I called anyone who thinks that's all he did a moron. Just like you called anyone who thinks they can win without the insider cheating a sore loser. So spare me the name calling lecture please.

never said that either

Wow you really are a rambling wreck

 

[Good Posting Judge]

New York Times basically wrote an article that expanded on the guy posting on Reddit last week:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/12/sports/fantasy-sports-draftkings-fanduel-insiders-edge-football.html?_r=2

Deadspin then wrote an article covering the NYTimes articles:

http://deadspin.com/daily-fantasy-employees-made-more-playing-at-rival-site-1736061171

At a private party for DraftKings, one of the biggest daily fantasy websites, Calvert said, he discussed his baseball contest choices with a host, Jon Aguiar, an executive of the site, who suddenly made a quick check on his phone and, to Calvert’s surprise, informed him that his pick of a pitcher was a poor choice because many other players had selected him.

“I shouldn’t have pulled that up in front of you, ha-ha,” Calvert said Aguiar told him.

That was days after Calvert, 29, had repeatedly been challenged for head-to-head play in another game, on the website FanDuel, by a Rick Sawyer. After checking a search engine, Calvert said, he found that Sawyer was actually a business planning manager at DraftKings.

Other juicy bits:

After the insider trading allegations surfaced, Calvert emailed Jason Robins, DraftKings’ chief executive and a co-founder, with his complaints. Two days went by without a response.

On Wednesday, he posted his story on Reddit.com. Twenty minutes later, the DraftKings co-founder Matt Kalish called him. On Friday, Robins, Kalish and Liberman — the founders — sent an email intended to mollify their customers, many of whom are concerned.

Is this the same Jon Aguiar who is a well known poker pro?

Yes.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

In the Rotogrinders interview the Draftkings CEO said all employees had equity. Not sure of the specifics, but forfeiting that prior to an IPO would be nuts.

Personally if they are as good at dfs as everyone is saying, they would be better off cashing in now. Between the huge advertising costs, regulation coming, lawsuits, and dilution, I can't imagine that equity being worth that much.

The equity is probably in the form of options that haven't vested, so they can't cash in now.

By cashing in now, I meant using their superior dfs skills to make a living playing dfs rather than waiting on the options to vest.

I'm not sold on the long term viability of this dfs model. The 10-12.5% just seems like to much to keep the fish around. Also as more pros get involved, the average player is going to struggle to be successful.

During the poker boom you had people lining up to join tourneys and SNG's with ~10% rake. It's also the standard for sports betting, which is doing fine as well, even stuck in a legal grey area.

I think people simply don't realize how hard it is to beat that rake, or to be winners in general. As a fairly seasoned sports bettor I do, but its math that I think people simply don't grasp. It's a "small" percentage, after all. If you enter a $50 GPP, what's an extra $5 in rake?

 

[BassNBrew]

In the Rotogrinders interview the Draftkings CEO said all employees had equity. Not sure of the specifics, but forfeiting that prior to an IPO would be nuts.

Personally if they are as good at dfs as everyone is saying, they would be better off cashing in now. Between the huge advertising costs, regulation coming, lawsuits, and dilution, I can't imagine that equity being worth that much.

The equity is probably in the form of options that haven't vested, so they can't cash in now.

By cashing in now, I meant using their superior dfs skills to make a living playing dfs rather than waiting on the options to vest.

I'm not sold on the long term viability of this dfs model. The 10-12.5% just seems like to much to keep the fish around. Also as more pros get involved, the average player is going to struggle to be successful.

During the poker boom you had people lining up to join tourneys and SNG's with ~10% rake. It's also the standard for sports betting, which is doing fine as well, even stuck in a legal grey area.

I think people simply don't realize how hard it is to beat that rake, or to be winners in general. As a fairly seasoned sports bettor I do, but its math that I think people simply don't grasp. It's a "small" percentage, after all. If you enter a $50 GPP, what's an extra $5 in rake?

I thought in sports betting they were only taking 10% on one side?

 

[RUSF18]

In the Rotogrinders interview the Draftkings CEO said all employees had equity. Not sure of the specifics, but forfeiting that prior to an IPO would be nuts.

Personally if they are as good at dfs as everyone is saying, they would be better off cashing in now. Between the huge advertising costs, regulation coming, lawsuits, and dilution, I can't imagine that equity being worth that much.

The equity is probably in the form of options that haven't vested, so they can't cash in now.

By cashing in now, I meant using their superior dfs skills to make a living playing dfs rather than waiting on the options to vest.

I'm not sold on the long term viability of this dfs model. The 10-12.5% just seems like to much to keep the fish around. Also as more pros get involved, the average player is going to struggle to be successful.

During the poker boom you had people lining up to join tourneys and SNG's with ~10% rake. It's also the standard for sports betting, which is doing fine as well, even stuck in a legal grey area.

I think people simply don't realize how hard it is to beat that rake, or to be winners in general. As a fairly seasoned sports bettor I do, but its math that I think people simply don't grasp. It's a "small" percentage, after all. If you enter a $50 GPP, what's an extra $5 in rake?

I thought in sports betting they were only taking 10% on one side?

Right. 10% on one side, 100% on the other side.

 

[BassNBrew]

In the Rotogrinders interview the Draftkings CEO said all employees had equity. Not sure of the specifics, but forfeiting that prior to an IPO would be nuts.

Personally if they are as good at dfs as everyone is saying, they would be better off cashing in now. Between the huge advertising costs, regulation coming, lawsuits, and dilution, I can't imagine that equity being worth that much.

The equity is probably in the form of options that haven't vested, so they can't cash in now.

By cashing in now, I meant using their superior dfs skills to make a living playing dfs rather than waiting on the options to vest.

I'm not sold on the long term viability of this dfs model. The 10-12.5% just seems like to much to keep the fish around. Also as more pros get involved, the average player is going to struggle to be successful.

During the poker boom you had people lining up to join tourneys and SNG's with ~10% rake. It's also the standard for sports betting, which is doing fine as well, even stuck in a legal grey area.

I think people simply don't realize how hard it is to beat that rake, or to be winners in general. As a fairly seasoned sports bettor I do, but its math that I think people simply don't grasp. It's a "small" percentage, after all. If you enter a $50 GPP, what's an extra $5 in rake?

I thought in sports betting they were only taking 10% on one side?

Right. 10% on one side, 100% on the other side.

Sports betting

$110 to win $100.

If you win you get $210, if you lose you get nothing. Assuming two people, one on each side, the book takes in $220 and pays out $210 which is about 4.5% rake/vig.

Fanduel

$100 to win $80

If you win you get $180, if you lose you get nothing. Assuming two person h2h, FD takes in $200 and pays out $180 which is a 10% rake/vig.

 

[Seekay]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

I will never feel bad for Fanduel or DK whatever happens. Just because to the ADs barrage every 5 minutes. I have been an amateur gambler all my life casinos here and there always looking to bet a friend or co-worker. Been playing Fantasy Baseball/football over 20 years. I have never got to a point where I would bet more then I could. My house was never on the line over a shot or and an At Bat.

Some people are not so lucky. Fanduel and DK made it a point where people with gambling issues could no long watch sports. Those ADs were straight up predatory and just straight up annoying for everyone else. Was Fanduel and DKs feeling sorry for taking every last scent from somehow who could no longer afford to lose any more money at their sites? Not hardly. So what comes around goes around.

Next comment is about John Lee humanizing Ethan. On surface he might seem like a great guy.

I worked in a very high traffic downtown bar for 10 years as a bartender. .Super bowls, world series, all-star games.. Met a lot of athletes, bands, tv personalities log the way and even had John Riggins talking me up on NFL sirus channel. Once business picked up and I am sure we exceeded originally expectations of revenue coming in, then management cared less about liquor cost.

It was more about that money coming in then about policy. An when that happened several people were taking advantage of the situation to increase how much they were bringing home each night.

Like you I could say I shared a beer with several of these people. An if I didn't work with them knowing what they were doing .. I would of thought they were good people too. In fact many of them were in general. People don't cheat or steal to get caught.

An as they say money is the root of all evil.

I just don't buy all this hot streak. DK big shots keep saying Ethan didnt have access. As for firing him being the easier way out and saving face. Sure if he was Oswald and acted alone.. but what if he didn't. What if there were others higher up on the DK food chain who would be vulnerable if he was released and felt the need to tell what really happened? By maintaining him they still have control of him.

An you are gonna tell me all these guys (FD and DK employees) who been playing DFS and getting rich off other sites now with the new policy have to QUIT cold turkey. NEVER play again?

That alone if you can't believe (which i don't) then you shouldn't believe anything coming out of their mouths..

Seems the longer this goes on ..the more lawsuits and Government inspection of these companies that happens.. The more people are forgetting what happened. I think at first people were looking for something to happen to Ethan. They wanted him to be the lone gunman. Now that there is a growing interest in what happened from many Media and outside sources people are getting worried they are gonna lose their precious DFS play. So they are willing to look the other way.

Lie to me.. tell me these people wont be playing in my games anymore. Fine they wont be? Here is 200 dollars. Let's get back in bed together.

 

[eoMMan]

What I'm confused about is the policy for employees to stop playing DFS anywhere.....that was effective immediately, right?

I ask because supposedly, the DFS sites just had their best weekend so far. You would think that a lot of these employees were high volume players which would result in a significant decrease in traffic for the sites.

What gives?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

What I'm confused about is the policy for employees to stop playing DFS anywhere.....that was effective immediately, right?

I ask because supposedly, the DFS sites just had their best weekend so far. You would think that a lot of these employees were high volume players which would result in a significant decrease in traffic for the sites.

What gives?

Probably just started accounts in friends names.

 

[karmarooster]

What I'm confused about is the policy for employees to stop playing DFS anywhere.....that was effective immediately, right?

I ask because supposedly, the DFS sites just had their best weekend so far. You would think that a lot of these employees were high volume players which would result in a significant decrease in traffic for the sites.

What gives?

Probably just started accounts in friends names.

Yeah the super duper nice guy Ethan who started this whole charade and who (likely) leveraged his insider information to win at least $350,000 also apparently has won not one but two tickets to the Fanduel Fantasy Championship whatever with the $2mil grand prize and min prize of $20k. Is he exempt from this rule for the tourney in December? Does he get to keep his tickets or do those go back to the pool (or go to 2nd place finishers in the qualifiers)?

Fanduel and DK have not answered and I expect they will make no comment about that and he will be allowed to participate and this contradiction will not be addressed in any way.

 

[chet]

Any company or individual in the DFS space desperately wants there to be no cheating for obvious reasons. For that reason, I take everything FBG and John Lee say with a grain of salt.

 

[JimmyJabroni]

http://fortune.com/2015/10/13/scandal-helped-draftkings-fanduel/

Just days after a major scandal erupted involving daily fantasy sports sites DraftKings and FanDuel, the two companies managed to have their best weekend ever. It suggests that what looked like a P.R. nightmare for these red-hot startups had no negative impact on its customers—rather, it may have helped the companies stoke interest. According to entry data from U.K. researcher SuperLobby covering Sunday, October 11, both platforms saw a record number of entries in their NFL contests, as well as record entry fee totals.

 

[NixonMask]

Could also be the wannabe pro jamokes thinking they it was their time and flooding the contests

 

[BassNBrew]

Could also be the wannabe pro jamokes thinking they it was their time and flooding the contests

Yup…I played about 5x my normal amount.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

http://fortune.com/2015/10/13/scandal-helped-draftkings-fanduel/

Just days after a major scandal erupted involving daily fantasy sports sites DraftKings and FanDuel, the two companies managed to have their best weekend ever. It suggests that what looked like a P.R. nightmare for these red-hot startups had no negative impact on its customersrather, it may have helped the companies stoke interest. According to entry data from U.K. researcher SuperLobby covering Sunday, October 11, both platforms saw a record number of entries in their NFL contests, as well as record entry fee totals.

But this is the end of DFS! I know because a group of people are saying it loudly and frequently.

On a related note, that ownership data from another site surely enabled a lot of people to win $350,000 this past weekend on FD and DK.

 

[Seekay]

http://fortune.com/2015/10/13/scandal-helped-draftkings-fanduel/

Just days after a major scandal erupted involving daily fantasy sports sites DraftKings and FanDuel, the two companies managed to have their best weekend ever. It suggests that what looked like a P.R. nightmare for these red-hot startups had no negative impact on its customersrather, it may have helped the companies stoke interest. According to entry data from U.K. researcher SuperLobby covering Sunday, October 11, both platforms saw a record number of entries in their NFL contests, as well as record entry fee totals.

But this is the end of DFS! I know because a group of people are saying it loudly and frequently.

On a related note, that ownership data from another site surely enabled a lot of people to win $350,000 this past weekend on FD and DK.

Yes lets compare a week where a small handful or people might of had the info and compare it to a week where 10 thousand or so did. You are right I dont think there would be much of a difference in usage changes.

 

[JimmyJabroni]

http://www.northjersey.com/news/n-j-lawmakers-call-for-government-oversight-of-daily-fantasy-sports-1.1431432

With the MetLife Stadium, home of the Giants and Jets, as a backdrop, two members of Congress on Tuesday decried the lack of governmental oversight of the growing daily fantasy sports industry.

“Daily fantasy sports is an industry crying for consumer protection,” said U.S. Rep. Frank Pallone, D-Monmouth, who added that the sites that offer such wagering are “operating in a void within the legal structure – without any regulation or the necessary transparency.”

 

[JimmyJabroni]

http://fortune.com/2015/10/13/scandal-helped-draftkings-fanduel/

Just days after a major scandal erupted involving daily fantasy sports sites DraftKings and FanDuel, the two companies managed to have their best weekend ever. It suggests that what looked like a P.R. nightmare for these red-hot startups had no negative impact on its customersrather, it may have helped the companies stoke interest. According to entry data from U.K. researcher SuperLobby covering Sunday, October 11, both platforms saw a record number of entries in their NFL contests, as well as record entry fee totals.

But this is the end of DFS! I know because a group of people are saying it loudly and frequently.

On a related note, that ownership data from another site surely enabled a lot of people to win $350,000 this past weekend on FD and DK.

If everyone has it, no one has it!

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

http://fortune.com/2015/10/13/scandal-helped-draftkings-fanduel/

Just days after a major scandal erupted involving daily fantasy sports sites DraftKings and FanDuel, the two companies managed to have their best weekend ever. It suggests that what looked like a P.R. nightmare for these red-hot startups had no negative impact on its customersrather, it may have helped the companies stoke interest. According to entry data from U.K. researcher SuperLobby covering Sunday, October 11, both platforms saw a record number of entries in their NFL contests, as well as record entry fee totals.

But this is the end of DFS! I know because a group of people are saying it loudly and frequently.On a related note, that ownership data from another site surely enabled a lot of people to win $350,000 this past weekend on FD and DK.

If everyone has it, no one has it!

Please. The vast majority of us had but ignored it. Like an order of 95+%. The dominant number crunchers ain't making money off of each other, they're making it off the masses.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

http://fortune.com/2015/10/13/scandal-helped-draftkings-fanduel/

Just days after a major scandal erupted involving daily fantasy sports sites DraftKings and FanDuel, the two companies managed to have their best weekend ever. It suggests that what looked like a P.R. nightmare for these red-hot startups had no negative impact on its customersrather, it may have helped the companies stoke interest. According to entry data from U.K. researcher SuperLobby covering Sunday, October 11, both platforms saw a record number of entries in their NFL contests, as well as record entry fee totals.

But this is the end of DFS! I know because a group of people are saying it loudly and frequently.On a related note, that ownership data from another site surely enabled a lot of people to win $350,000 this past weekend on FD and DK.

Yes lets compare a week where a small handful or people might of had the info and compare it to a week where 10 thousand or so did. You are right I dont think there would be much of a difference in usage changes.

You don't seriously believe that 10,000 players on FD had that info AND used it do you? To the vast majority of DFS players that information might as well have not existed.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

If they data they (employees of DK and FD) were using to build lineups wasn't helpful in giving them an advantage to beat the general public then they wouldn't be using that data. It has nothing to do with where one individual finished. Your post is pretty idiotic acting as if only the person one spot behind Ethan has the right to have an opinion about his shadiness.

Only a moron would believe that ALL Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel. It's amazing what people will believe. I'm not stunned the people that make money off DFS (John Lee being employed here because of DFS, for example) will defend everything about it. But the general public is smarter than this, right?

What's with the insults? I never offered an opinion as to whether it was or wasn't helpful to Ethan- I wrote "Ethan did or didn't cheat."

You write IT has nothing to do with...replying to what? When I read a paragraph to a page long rant by someone on any one of dozens of message boards claiming they would have won if not for Ethan, I'm not allowed to think ummm no you wouldn't? What about when it includes "I have been winning my office FF league for ten years! I know I'm great at FF!"? Am I supposed to feel bad for them and maybe bow to their FF greatness?

Anyone is allowed to be happy, upset or feel however they want, that doesn't mean an entire story how they would have won has any realistic expectation to it?

To insinuate Ethan had an unfair advantage and they should get their money back seems fine by me, but when they add a llllong rant about how they would have won...cmon that's 'fair game.' You spend way too much time on these boards to not know that

I never stated "All Ethan did was use DK data to play at Fanduel" but thanks for the moron comment. Couple posts later you're calling someone an internet tough guy. What's your deal today? What are you so upset about? Were you one of these people posting rants?

If so, then I apologize. Good luck against Ruxin and Taco this year.

I didn't call YOU a moron. I called anyone who thinks that's all he did a moron. Just like you called anyone who thinks they can win without the insider cheating a sore loser. So spare me the name calling lecture please.

never said that eitherWow you really are a rambling wreck

So we are done with the cute twisting of others words? Good to know. Good luck with your bets this week.

 

[NixonMask]

This has gone from ooh and ahh, hmmm to feeling bad for them. The onslaught just keeps coming.

First couple days some Ethan jokes were funny. He's somewhat wise and humorous so I didn't think it was so bad. Now it's passed a point and I feel bad for the guy.

On almost every site, if not every site, there is some comment with a variation of this- I always win in my office league and I am terrible at DFS....from there it must be gambling, it must be fixed, it must be something negative. They are so convinced they are the greatest FF participant that they totally miss the fact that other people might be better.

I have no idea what Ethan scored when he won. I assume 225-250. The number of people that complain they didn't win with a score of 100-125 is odd. They totally miss that there were probably thousands of people with better scores, not just Ethan. They were losing because they had a bad team not because Ethan did or didn't cheat.

The anger and/or rage of the people with the previous two issues (mentioned above) does not at all mesh up for me. I can't relate at all. I assume sore loser or embarrassed they bragged they were so awesome at FF while truly they're not so good. The guys that were just behind him in that contest-oh I'd understand their displeasure if they even spoke out. Thousands of spots behind...cmon now.

BnB's point above is outstanding. I am no longer ugh another FD or DK commercial but instead thankful it's not a political one.

I will never feel bad for Fanduel or DK whatever happens. Just because to the ADs barrage every 5 minutes. I have been an amateur gambler all my life casinos here and there always looking to bet a friend or co-worker. Been playing Fantasy Baseball/football over 20 years. I have never got to a point where I would bet more then I could. My house was never on the line over a shot or and an At Bat.

Some people are not so lucky. Fanduel and DK made it a point where people with gambling issues could no long watch sports. Those ADs were straight up predatory and just straight up annoying for everyone else. Was Fanduel and DKs feeling sorry for taking every last scent from somehow who could no longer afford to lose any more money at their sites? Not hardly. So what comes around goes around.

Yahoo is even more shameless in this behavior. At the top of their contest screen is a potential winnings value. How much your contests could possibly win. I could win about 2 million this weekend! Only I cant, because all they have is multi-entry tournaments and they count the biggest prize each time.

1. There is absolutely no freaking reason there should be a potential winnings value unless youre conceding your contest are in fact gambling.

2. It is clearly meant to induce compulsive gamblers to recklessly up their action.

 

[karmarooster]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-justice-department-investigating-daily-fantasy-sports-business-model-1444865627

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/sports/draftkings-fanduel-fbi-investigation.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=1

This story continues to evolve. Looks like the FBI and DOJ are investigating both sites.

The thing about this story is that whatever initial mistake "Ethan" made by accidentally tweeting some ownership percentages has unleashed an entire bag of cats that simply won't be rounded up. The initial industry response to the story was a painfully obvious attempt at minimizing it -- just one accidental tweet! and there was no improper use of data because the tweet was after 1pm and Fanduel had already locked! (I guess they forgot that FD has a ton later games on every Sunday slate: 4pm, prime time, late, Mon-Thurs, just to name a few.)

Then there's stories about the DK content manager with his app full of live, up to date ownership percentages across MLB games. Not their IT security expert, just a dude. And surely he wasn't the only dude with real time data. They had a whole boiler room full of people who live and breathe DFS every single day, loaded them up every conceivable bit of data, and said go forth and conquer.

So it comes out that DK employees won 0.3% of the money on Fanduel... somewhere in the range of $6-10 million. And this is a SMALL company. Ethan's $350k win took the headlines, but their whole team was raking in winnings. Each and every one of them earning several times their salary from winnings on other sites. Think of it like an investment bank -- solid but relatively modest salaries, and HUGE bonuses. So a $75k paycheck, but "office perks" worth several hundred thousand!

Can you imagine the morale in that office the past week or two when their "income" was cut down from a couple hundred thousand per year to a measly $75k paycheck? And they can't play on ANY sites? The whole team quit, cold turkey, no action on Victic, Yahoo, Fantasyscore, DraftDay DraftPot Drafster etc. etc. etc.? And no one quit? Do they actually have to "work" now and not spend 50% of their time doing "market research"?

This is an ENTIRE culture of bending the rules, breaking the rules, and exploiting information for profit:

The information under review includes a post by Jon Aguiar, an executive in charge of developing high-volume fantasy players, on a public thread informing players how to deposit funds and play in contests in states and countries where the games are prohibited.

I noticed this myself in Europe for NFL week 2. If you go to Fanduel.com (was using my phone), you can't enter contests when out of the US (I would assume if your IP matches one of the states where it's banned). But if you use the mobile FD app... no problem! Seriously their IT had no clue that there was such a simple work around? Or... they looked the other way ... because it meant more vig?

Then there's the hunting of other weak players on other sites. If you have all this data, you could try to mine it for low-owned GPP plays... or you could mine it for the easiest targets. THAT is some predatory behavior. "According to our data Joe the Plumber likes to have a few drinks after work and load up on contests -- NFL, CFB, MLB you name it, he's giving away money!

Or, what about swapping info with someone at Fanduel? If you'd like to "bet" on it -- there's a non-zero chance that sometime in the last 12 months a FD employee and a DK employee got cozy with one another and made sweet sweet love to their counterpart's data. It's human nature. If it exists on wall street, and it does, of course it exists here too.

I would also "wager" -- somewhere, sometime in the next 5 years, someone will go to jail for something. And the negligible risk of getting your funds seized by the feds in a poker-style shut down is non "non-negligible".

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

So it comes out that DK employees won 0.3% of the money on Fanduel... somewhere in the range of $6-10 million. And this is a SMALL company. Ethan's $350k win took the headlines, but their whole team was raking in winnings. Each and every one of them earning several times their salary from winnings on other sites. Think of it like an investment bank -- solid but relatively modest salaries, and HUGE bonuses. So a $75k paycheck, but "office perks" worth several hundred thousand!

Are you adding an extra zero? Six million dollars divided by 300 employees would be $20,000, and that's over several years -- so call it $7,000 a year. It might be more like $10 million divided by (a weighted average of) 150 employees, but the "several hundred thousand" still seems off by more than an order of magnitude.

(I think DraftKings has around 500 employees now, but had under a hundred a few years ago, so it's tough to say what the denominator should be.)

 

[chet]

Just came in to post the NYTs FBI story link but see that karma roosterbeat me to it. This is not good for FD and DK.

Jon Aguiar's name keeps on coming up in these stories and not in a positive way. What was his rep as a poker pro?

 

[mitchh1124]

Lots of big name people think that New York story is fake

A guys friend that was there over from rotocurve said that conversation never happened

Someone is just bitter they lost a lot of money