DFS data leak: employees cheating? (1 Viewer)

[Omniscient Deity]

Gonna payout for now and see how this plays out over the next couple of weeks. Too many red flags for my liking.

 

[snogger]

This DFS thing just blew up so fast... it's outgrown itself.

This time it is just about insider abuse... and if we know about this what do we not know about? What are their internal security audits like? Do they conduct business like a bank or like a fly by night website?

They now handle so much money that there is going to be incentive for hackers to attempt to gain access. How well is site and system security audited? You can bet that if there is a compromise, hackers will do what they can to manipulate outcomes without being detected - with the golden ticket being the hackers ability to modify lineups after the game starts.

They aren't earning any trust points (Draftkings) with their scammy "deposit bonus" that expires well before you could reasonably hope to earn it either. Their commercials (Fanduel as well) are also pretty awful ("The only difference between me and people who didn't win is that I played Fanduel!") in that they seem to outwardly target gambling addicts or naive folks with scammy claims. It's almost like they are trying to get it made illegal - killing the golden goose by proving that it is what is exactly what it was not supposed to be (gambling).

Then again, the state lottery pays out at like 50% so... yeah...

. Here's a thought..

Most states have no problem having a lottery because, well, some of the money goes to the state and no one forces you to play the lottery and you have to go to a store to do so..

So maybe the next step is to setup stores where people can go to "purchase" their DFS fix, and a small chuck of change goes to the state and everything will be good

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

This DFS thing just blew up so fast... it's outgrown itself.

This time it is just about insider abuse... and if we know about this what do we not know about? What are their internal security audits like? Do they conduct business like a bank or like a fly by night website?

They now handle so much money that there is going to be incentive for hackers to attempt to gain access. How well is site and system security audited? You can bet that if there is a compromise, hackers will do what they can to manipulate outcomes without being detected - with the golden ticket being the hackers ability to modify lineups after the game starts.

They aren't earning any trust points (Draftkings) with their scammy "deposit bonus" that expires well before you could reasonably hope to earn it either. Their commercials (Fanduel as well) are also pretty awful ("The only difference between me and people who didn't win is that I played Fanduel!") in that they seem to outwardly target gambling addicts or naive folks with scammy claims. It's almost like they are trying to get it made illegal - killing the golden goose by proving that it is what is exactly what it was not supposed to be (gambling).

Then again, the state lottery pays out at like 50% so... yeah...

. Here's a thought..

Most states have no problem having a lottery because, well, some of the money goes to the state and no one forces you to play the lottery and you have to go to a store to do so..

So maybe the next step is to setup stores where people can go to "purchase" their DFS fix, and a small chuck of change goes to the state and everything will be good

Kind of like having "a guy" (usually a bartender) who works for "a guy" you can place sports wagers with.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

This is part of why I've always thought late swap was a bad idea.

Even if no site allows any insiders to change their lineups after the initial kickoff, there's no way to prove it unless everyone's roster is immediately downloadable in a csv right at the initial kickoff.

DraftKings can't give you a csv like that because of late swap.

FanDuel could give you a csv like that, but as far as I'm aware, they don't. (I could be missing it.)

The only thing that will stop people from suspecting that humans or bots are changing lineups after a contest starts is making all rosters immediately downloadable upon the start of a contest.

 

[kittenmittens]

Haha yeah, at least the state lottery is more of a voluntary tax that goes back to the public...

The state needs to get in on the rake for these sites... 10% is quite a bit anyways... somebody should make a site that only rakes 2.5%, how hard is setting up a DFS site anyways?

 

[Skoo]

ESPN pulling sponsored daily fantasy sports segments from programming

Thank god.

For some reason this was even more disturbing to me than all the ads. Having DK discussions on all the pre and post-game shows is just really off-putting, especially since the talking heads on these shows don't have the slightest clue about playing DFS.

"Antonio Brown, now here's a guy you might wanna consider putting in your draftkings lineup this week." - Thanks for that groundbreaking analysis, fellas!

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

LegalSportsReport has had consistently good coverage of this stuff.

Here's their article from yesterday.

 

[ChaosM83]

If we were all going in to Sundays blind then I would say having the Draft Kings % would be a huge advantage on Fan Duel. But with all the sites that post the ownership numbers after Thursday, none of us should be going into Sunday blind. Maybe I'm wrong but I think those numbers are more accurate for the Sunday slate then Draft Kings. I just don't see how having that info would be any more beneficial then the information we already have.

 

[NixonMask]

Chaos, Ethan and football are not the issue. The other sports, who else had the information, when they had it, and who they were sharing it with are what everyone is flipping out about.

 

[cheese]

I don't have a strong take on the scandal, but this is killing them. I've had 3 very casual fantasy players (relatives) ask me in the last 24 hours if I've heard about this and should they withdraw. This is massive perception hit.

Has Ethan been fired? I suspect he cost them 10M+ damage by way of credibility.

 

[NixonMask]

This is costing them way more than a few million dollars. Theyre jeopardizing billion dollar IPOs right now, the only rational explanation IMO is they are more concerned about possible legal/criminal ramifications.

 

[chet]

I find it disingenuous that the statement from DK and FD denying any wrongdoing came out before they could have done a thorough investigation. It indicates to me that they're hiding something.

 

[Willie Neslon]

I don't have a strong take on the scandal, but this is killing them. I've had 3 very casual fantasy players (relatives) ask me in the last 24 hours if I've heard about this and should they withdraw. This is massive perception hit.

Has Ethan been fired? I suspect he cost them 10M+ damage by way of credibility.

Supposedly he was really upset about the whole thing but then he looked at his bank account and now he's smiling again.

 

[(HULK)]

Apparently I'm playing enough $ @ Yahoo that they've tagged me as a "power user", which is kinda laughable. I've only had 4 digits in play 2 times. Regardless, I now have a direct link with their customer care and I sent them a couple of questions about their policy for sharing ownership % with their employees and whether or not employees may play DFS there or elsewhere. I will post the answers if/when they come.

 

[wyattroa]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

 

[wyattroa]

Apparently I'm playing enough $ @ Yahoo that they've tagged me as a "power user", which is kinda laughable. I've only had 4 digits in play 2 times. Regardless, I now have a direct link with their customer care and I sent them a couple of questions about their policy for sharing ownership % with their employees and whether or not employees may play DFS there or elsewhere. I will post the answers if/when they come.

How do you like yahoo? I was thinking of trying it out. I put together a team and was in the negative by $30...Hvae to figure out a better way to balance my players

 

[JimmyJabroni]

This is costing them way more than a few million dollars. Theyre jeopardizing billion dollar IPOs right now, the only rational explanation IMO is they are more concerned about possible legal/criminal ramifications.

This is going to give strength to lawmakers who might want to have hearings to look into whether or not these sites should even exist. It could also result in Class Action if these companies weren't doing enough to maintain the integrity of their contests and especially if employees were swapping info between the two sites.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

Not exactly applicable but a good read from one of the Millionaire Maker winners who has his own successful dfs site, competing with Rotogrinders not FD/DK.

Dinkpiece @ Rotoexperts.

I’ve spent the entirety of my professional career doing my best at making informed decisions. I started off in finance as an investment analyst tasked with trying to evaluate investment managers. Each decision often required months, even years in some cases, of due diligence on both the qualitative and quantitative side. I’ve since moved into DFS where each day is spent trying to assess an entire pool of players and make the best recommendations possible based on the information at hand. The process has been sped up a bit by the nature of Daily Fantasy games, but the goal remains the same. Take in as much information as I can and deliver the most informed opinion possible to put myself and our subscribers in the best position to win.With that backdrop in mind, I often take time to digest big industry information and news. Part of it is how I’ve been trained, part of it is my personality, and yes a big part of it is also my position in the industry. It’s easy for me to be reactive, and often jovial and conversational on twitter, about things going on in sports and the greater world. If I say something stupid about an ongoing sporting event, I’ll get ridiculed and made fun of, but I don’t have the same risk as making an ill-informed judgment on something going on within the industry. My mentions will get flooded and I’ll have to wear a stupid comment about Eddie Lacy or Christine Michael, but at the end of the day it’s a silly reactive sports opinion; it’s not my livelihood.

For some, my taking a breath to digest something will come as silence due to a conflict of interest. From my vantage point, it’s trying to be careful about something I love. I left a stable career in finance to take on a passion. This isn’t something I’m doing on the side. This is my primary source of income and my career. I have poured everything I have into this career for the last 2+ years. It’s exceptionally important to me so if I’m going to comment about something that I view as exceptionally important within the industry, I need to take the time to try and digest as much information as I possibly can.

The recent issues at both FanDuel and DraftKings are exceptionally important. The issue at DraftKings shed light on the risk of employees having access to data that could be used to tilt the playing field to their advantage while playing on other sites. It revealed not only the importance of the data, but the concerns associated with employees playing DFS on other sites. I don’t believe there was intentional misuse of data and I don’t believe an advantage was gained in this instance. I do understand the accusations and the concerns given some of the best players in the industry have worked/are currently working for DFS sites. I think it’s a natural concern to link the two together and wonder.

When this industry started, it was important to have people working within these sites that played the games. The operators needed someone with a deep understanding of the games to oversee and develop pricing models and it was also important for them to build their product better by learning from game play on other sites. It was a really important piece for how these companies grew and developed. Now that they’ve gotten so big though, the risk far outweighs the reward and I think this is something that has become overtly apparent. The sites have responded by tightening up parameters around employees playing on other sites, which I think is a necessary first step. This doesn’t eliminate all risks. Employees could still share key information to friends who use it to play, but it does at least put up another hurdle.

The issues at FanDuel are getting less attention because there isn’t a sexy headline accusation like “insider trading” to attach to it, but in my opinion they are in the same neighborhood of concern. FanDuel has been posting single entry contests that users have been able to multi-enter. When confronted about it, FanDuel has offered support responses indicating it was a mistake in labeling the contest and refunded participants entry fees. Unfortunately, it’s happened a few times and the repeated generic response is frustrating those players who are involved in the decision. It’s another issue where we have to question risk controls and oversight at one of the leading companies in our industry because a mistake is seemingly being made over and over. As these sites become bigger, the bar on execution only gets higher. With more eyes comes louder voices and while we’ve gotten pretty far “trusting the sites”, the scale of their businesses may require a different tact.

The idea of regulation is scary. It’s scary to have an outside authority who may or may not know much about the industry begin passing judgment and ultimately legislation on the industry we love. We’ve seen a glimpse of this in the way DFS is discussed when politicians are referencing it. With regulation likely comes added costs and typically those costs get passed onto the consumer. With increased costs, the required winning percentage to remain profitable goes up. The game only becomes more difficult.

On the other hand, we need better preventative measures in place to stop these issues from arising. I don’t have the answers to what these measures are but having a finance background makes me believe some of the risk control measurements in place on data and information in financial companies may translate well to DFS. I don’t work inside in these companies and I have zero information as to their internal policies, so this is purely a guess. It would make sense to me that if you wanted to avoid regulation long-term the best way to do so would be to implement stronger levels of regulation internally and the aim to communicate them in a transparent way to customers.

As someone commenting from the outside, it’s hard to have complete understanding of what is going on inside. The sites could help through better communication but perfect transparency is probably a pipe-dream. Even with more communication, I don’t exactly have experience commenting on how to run a billion dollar business and I sure as heck couldn’t have gotten either company to this point if I had been. As a result, I’m hesitant to suggest I have any, or all, of the answers necessary on how to proceed. As a customer, I would feel better if:

1) The companies shed some light on plans for improved internal risk management and specifically were leveraging resources from outside industries that are already heavily regulated

2) The companies offer more transparency around who and how many people have access to integral data

Ultimately, I think this is an opportunity for the industry leaders to re-shape the industry and firm up the policies and practices in place to make us stronger going forward. Given the success both companies have had carving out a completely new industry, I believe they have the strength and fortitude to overcome these issues and build a stronger industry going forward.

 

[chet]

Apparently I'm playing enough $ @ Yahoo that they've tagged me as a "power user", which is kinda laughable. I've only had 4 digits in play 2 times. Regardless, I now have a direct link with their customer care and I sent them a couple of questions about their policy for sharing ownership % with their employees and whether or not employees may play DFS there or elsewhere. I will post the answers if/when they come.

Joining yahoo now

want to become a power user

 

[Bucky86]

Smart to pull out? I'd much rather pull out too soon.

 

[msudaisy26]

I'm actually starting to wonder if Week 5 will be tougher than usual due to lots of casual fans pulling out.

I think the opposite. I think bigger players are more likely to scale back, as they're the ones most invested. A lot of casual fans aren't going to hear about it and/or play so low stakes they don't gaf.

General public definitely knows now. ESPN/Outside the lines just did a 20min roundtable about this.

AJ--you're way off the mark. In addition to the NYT story, I've seen feature stories on both CNBC and BloombergTV in the last hour. I believe the vast majority of people who play at either DK or FD will hear about this story in one form or another.

See bolded. I'm going to keep playing as are all my work friends who play. Don't know anybody other than punchsox on the internet who is boycotting. This thread is even prompting me to open a yahoo account.

I am going to continue to play too. I have won money 3 out of 4 years I have played and I enjoy doing the research and sitting down Sunday and looking over my lineups. I really hope they do come up with a fix for this problem and not just ban it.

 

[James Daulton]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

Not exactly applicable but a good read from one of the Millionaire Maker winners who has his own successful dfs site, competing with Rotogrinders not FD/DK.

Dinkpiece @ Rotoexperts.

I’ve spent the entirety of my professional career doing my best at making informed decisions. I started off in finance as an investment analyst tasked with trying to evaluate investment managers. Each decision often required months, even years in some cases, of due diligence on both the qualitative and quantitative side. I’ve since moved into DFS where each day is spent trying to assess an entire pool of players and make the best recommendations possible based on the information at hand. The process has been sped up a bit by the nature of Daily Fantasy games, but the goal remains the same. Take in as much information as I can and deliver the most informed opinion possible to put myself and our subscribers in the best position to win.With that backdrop in mind, I often take time to digest big industry information and news. Part of it is how I’ve been trained, part of it is my personality, and yes a big part of it is also my position in the industry. It’s easy for me to be reactive, and often jovial and conversational on twitter, about things going on in sports and the greater world. If I say something stupid about an ongoing sporting event, I’ll get ridiculed and made fun of, but I don’t have the same risk as making an ill-informed judgment on something going on within the industry. My mentions will get flooded and I’ll have to wear a stupid comment about Eddie Lacy or Christine Michael, but at the end of the day it’s a silly reactive sports opinion; it’s not my livelihood.

For some, my taking a breath to digest something will come as silence due to a conflict of interest. From my vantage point, it’s trying to be careful about something I love. I left a stable career in finance to take on a passion. This isn’t something I’m doing on the side. This is my primary source of income and my career. I have poured everything I have into this career for the last 2+ years. It’s exceptionally important to me so if I’m going to comment about something that I view as exceptionally important within the industry, I need to take the time to try and digest as much information as I possibly can.

The recent issues at both FanDuel and DraftKings are exceptionally important. The issue at DraftKings shed light on the risk of employees having access to data that could be used to tilt the playing field to their advantage while playing on other sites. It revealed not only the importance of the data, but the concerns associated with employees playing DFS on other sites. I don’t believe there was intentional misuse of data and I don’t believe an advantage was gained in this instance. I do understand the accusations and the concerns given some of the best players in the industry have worked/are currently working for DFS sites. I think it’s a natural concern to link the two together and wonder.

When this industry started, it was important to have people working within these sites that played the games. The operators needed someone with a deep understanding of the games to oversee and develop pricing models and it was also important for them to build their product better by learning from game play on other sites. It was a really important piece for how these companies grew and developed. Now that they’ve gotten so big though, the risk far outweighs the reward and I think this is something that has become overtly apparent. The sites have responded by tightening up parameters around employees playing on other sites, which I think is a necessary first step. This doesn’t eliminate all risks. Employees could still share key information to friends who use it to play, but it does at least put up another hurdle.

The issues at FanDuel are getting less attention because there isn’t a sexy headline accusation like “insider trading” to attach to it, but in my opinion they are in the same neighborhood of concern. FanDuel has been posting single entry contests that users have been able to multi-enter. When confronted about it, FanDuel has offered support responses indicating it was a mistake in labeling the contest and refunded participants entry fees. Unfortunately, it’s happened a few times and the repeated generic response is frustrating those players who are involved in the decision. It’s another issue where we have to question risk controls and oversight at one of the leading companies in our industry because a mistake is seemingly being made over and over. As these sites become bigger, the bar on execution only gets higher. With more eyes comes louder voices and while we’ve gotten pretty far “trusting the sites”, the scale of their businesses may require a different tact.

The idea of regulation is scary. It’s scary to have an outside authority who may or may not know much about the industry begin passing judgment and ultimately legislation on the industry we love. We’ve seen a glimpse of this in the way DFS is discussed when politicians are referencing it. With regulation likely comes added costs and typically those costs get passed onto the consumer. With increased costs, the required winning percentage to remain profitable goes up. The game only becomes more difficult.

On the other hand, we need better preventative measures in place to stop these issues from arising. I don’t have the answers to what these measures are but having a finance background makes me believe some of the risk control measurements in place on data and information in financial companies may translate well to DFS. I don’t work inside in these companies and I have zero information as to their internal policies, so this is purely a guess. It would make sense to me that if you wanted to avoid regulation long-term the best way to do so would be to implement stronger levels of regulation internally and the aim to communicate them in a transparent way to customers.

As someone commenting from the outside, it’s hard to have complete understanding of what is going on inside. The sites could help through better communication but perfect transparency is probably a pipe-dream. Even with more communication, I don’t exactly have experience commenting on how to run a billion dollar business and I sure as heck couldn’t have gotten either company to this point if I had been. As a result, I’m hesitant to suggest I have any, or all, of the answers necessary on how to proceed. As a customer, I would feel better if:

1) The companies shed some light on plans for improved internal risk management and specifically were leveraging resources from outside industries that are already heavily regulated

2) The companies offer more transparency around who and how many people have access to integral data

Ultimately, I think this is an opportunity for the industry leaders to re-shape the industry and firm up the policies and practices in place to make us stronger going forward. Given the success both companies have had carving out a completely new industry, I believe they have the strength and fortitude to overcome these issues and build a stronger industry going forward.

He doesn't think the info was used to gain an advantage? Shocking...

 

[Peyton Marino]

Smart to pull out?

always

 

[chet]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

Any links?

 

[karmarooster]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

Any links?

http://www.businessinsider.com/draftkings-daily-fantasy-sports-fanduel-2015-10

 

[Chaos Commish]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

Not exactly applicable but a good read from one of the Millionaire Maker winners who has his own successful dfs site, competing with Rotogrinders not FD/DK.

Dinkpiece @ Rotoexperts.

I’ve spent the entirety of my professional career...

He doesn't think the info was used to gain an advantage? Shocking...

Yup. I tweeted as much to him when I read it. Actually I called the thought silly. How could any of us have the data while playing whale level heavy at another site NOT construct rosters around the knowledge?

 

[Chaos Commish]

For the tl;drs the bit about Fan Duel messing up was news to me.

The issues at FanDuel are getting less attention because there isn’t a sexy headline accusation like “insider trading” to attach to it, but in my opinion they are in the same neighborhood of concern. FanDuel has been posting single entry contests that users have been able to multi-enter. When confronted about it, FanDuel has offered support responses indicating it was a mistake in labeling the contest and refunded participants entry fees. Unfortunately, it’s happened a few times and the repeated generic response is frustrating those players who are involved in the decision. It’s another issue where we have to question risk controls and oversight at one of the leading companies in our industry because a mistake is seemingly being made over and over. As these sites become bigger, the bar on execution only gets higher. With more eyes comes louder voices and while we’ve gotten pretty far “trusting the sites”, the scale of their businesses may require a different tact.

The more I digest the last 4 years of experience the more dirty I feel doing business with these guys. How many times have we seen Fan Duel post public a private contest that isn't filling, then give a pure bs excuse about not knowing or something.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

Not exactly applicable but a good read from one of the Millionaire Maker winners who has his own successful dfs site, competing with Rotogrinders not FD/DK.

Dinkpiece @ Rotoexperts.

Ive spent the entirety of my professional career...

He doesn't think the info was used to gain an advantage? Shocking...

Yup. I tweeted as much to him when I read it. Actually I called the thought silly. How could any of us have the data while playing whale level heavy at another site NOT construct rosters around the knowledge?

If he had the data, he probably used it. He says he didn't have the data (before FanDuel rosters locked) and DraftKings has confirmed it. Of course, many will think they are lying (and that's not entirely unreasonable since there's no way to know)...

 

[tjnc09]

For the tl;drs the bit about Fan Duel messing up was news to me.

The issues at FanDuel are getting less attention because there isn’t a sexy headline accusation like “insider trading” to attach to it, but in my opinion they are in the same neighborhood of concern. FanDuel has been posting single entry contests that users have been able to multi-enter. When confronted about it, FanDuel has offered support responses indicating it was a mistake in labeling the contest and refunded participants entry fees. Unfortunately, it’s happened a few times and the repeated generic response is frustrating those players who are involved in the decision. It’s another issue where we have to question risk controls and oversight at one of the leading companies in our industry because a mistake is seemingly being made over and over. As these sites become bigger, the bar on execution only gets higher. With more eyes comes louder voices and while we’ve gotten pretty far “trusting the sites”, the scale of their businesses may require a different tact.

The more I digest the last 4 years of experience the more dirty I feel doing business with these guys. How many times have we seen Fan Duel post public a private contest that isn't filling, then give a pure bs excuse about not knowing or something.

https://twitter.com/TheEndIsNir/status/649958796651970560

FanDuel ‏@FanDuel Oct 2

@TheEndIsNir This was titled wrong. Apologies. All users in the contest have been emailed and given the option to join a free $100 contest.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

Any links?

http://www.businessinsider.com/draftkings-daily-fantasy-sports-fanduel-2015-10

The number is nigh on meaningless without knowing if that's a net or gross. The latter seems far more likely given the context (0.3% of $2B in awards). Personally I don't find that amount in gross winnings all that shocking. I would think industry employees would play at a much higher volume than normal, perhaps by a factor of 25 or more.

The real question is "How successful are they?" not "How much did they gross?" Comparing their ROI to non-industry employed whales would seem like the most telling comparison.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

Not exactly applicable but a good read from one of the Millionaire Maker winners who has his own successful dfs site, competing with Rotogrinders not FD/DK.

Dinkpiece @ Rotoexperts.

Ive spent the entirety of my professional career...

He doesn't think the info was used to gain an advantage? Shocking...

Yup. I tweeted as much to him when I read it. Actually I called the thought silly. How could any of us have the data while playing whale level heavy at another site NOT construct rosters around the knowledge?

If he had the data, he probably used it. He says he didn't have the data (before FanDuel rosters locked) and DraftKings has confirmed it. Of course, many will think they are lying (and that's not entirely unreasonable since there's no way to know)...

The reason this is a scandal is because he tweeted the information before rosters locked.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

Not exactly applicable but a good read from one of the Millionaire Maker winners who has his own successful dfs site, competing with Rotogrinders not FD/DK.

Dinkpiece @ Rotoexperts.

Ive spent the entirety of my professional career...

He doesn't think the info was used to gain an advantage? Shocking...

Yup. I tweeted as much to him when I read it. Actually I called the thought silly. How could any of us have the data while playing whale level heavy at another site NOT construct rosters around the knowledge?

If he had the data, he probably used it. He says he didn't have the data (before FanDuel rosters locked) and DraftKings has confirmed it. Of course, many will think they are lying (and that's not entirely unreasonable since there's no way to know)...

The reason this is a scandal is because he tweeted the information before rosters locked.

He tweeted it after FanDuel rosters locked. FanDuel doesn't have late swap, and it was after kickoff.

 

[Penguin]

New York Attorney General Opens Inquiry Into Fantasy Sports Siteshttp://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/sports/draftkings-fanduel-inquiry-new-york-attorney-general.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0

 

[(HULK)]

Apparently I'm playing enough $ @ Yahoo that they've tagged me as a "power user", which is kinda laughable. I've only had 4 digits in play 2 times. Regardless, I now have a direct link with their customer care and I sent them a couple of questions about their policy for sharing ownership % with their employees and whether or not employees may play DFS there or elsewhere. I will post the answers if/when they come.

How do you like yahoo? I was thinking of trying it out. I put together a team and was in the negative by $30...Hvae to figure out a better way to balance my players

I love free money and, for that reason, I love yahoo

 

[Chaos Commish]

Some sites are reporting that Dk employees have brought in more then 6 million from fanduel in winnings...Its getting crazier.

Not exactly applicable but a good read from one of the Millionaire Maker winners who has his own successful dfs site, competing with Rotogrinders not FD/DK.

Dinkpiece @ Rotoexperts.

Ive spent the entirety of my professional career...

He doesn't think the info was used to gain an advantage? Shocking...

Yup. I tweeted as much to him when I read it. Actually I called the thought silly. How could any of us have the data while playing whale level heavy at another site NOT construct rosters around the knowledge?

If he had the data, he probably used it. He says he didn't have the data (before FanDuel rosters locked) and DraftKings has confirmed it. Of course, many will think they are lying (and that's not entirely unreasonable since there's no way to know)...

The reason this is a scandal is because he tweeted the information before rosters locked.

He tweeted it after FanDuel rosters locked. FanDuel doesn't have late swap, and it was after kickoff.

I guess I'm just not trusting enough given smarmy nature of too many events. I have a hard time believing he didn't have access to the changing data in real time as contests filled. It seems like that was one of his job descriptions/responsibilities from his first apology at RG. I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt, so lying it is. I'm even a bit uncomfortable with FBGs if you're giving them the benefit of the doubt. Too much wriggling for me, but I guess we're at their mercy if it's a cover up (which gd it you know it is, man).

 

[bagger]

It's not just ownership percentages from Thursday games. I'm sure an employee can get ownership percentages on Sunday games 10 minutes before kickoff too. The employee didn't just happen to get lucky and win $350K.

He did happen to get lucky -- extremely lucky.

A very good DFS player will have an ROI of maybe around 30% in a given non-overlayed contest. (I think I'm erring on the side of picking too high a number, but that's okay.)

Having percent-owned info from DraftKings to use at FanDuel will be quite helpful -- maybe bump that 30% to 50%. Trading with an accomplice from FanDuel to give you exact percentages in the contests you're playing will be an even bigger advantage. Let's bump it to 100%, which is unrealistically high, but for the sake of argument, let's say that this guy actually had an expected ROI of 100%.

His actual return was not 100% -- it was something along the lines of a kajillion percent. That is extreme luck. The effect of that luck absolutely swamped whatever edge he had.

The fact that some employees at DK and possibly other sites can get this info before everyone else has it is a real problem, and this crazy coincidence of timing is generating major publicity and bringing this problem to light, which needed to happen. But it is a crazy coincidence of timing. If the worst allegations about information-swapping are true, the guy should have expected to win around $50 with that lineup, on average, not $350,000. No matter how big his actual edge was (absent something more nefarious like changing his lineup at halftime), his results in this one contest were still 99.99% attributable to luck rather than edge.

If your numbers are even close to correct, then it's very possible and probably likely that this cheating was beyond employees swapping ownership stats. Maybe they have the abillity to alter lineups which would be equivalent to the superuser poker accounts at Absolute Poker last decade.

When the money is as big as it is here, people will find ways to cheat.

my thought as well.

 

[Wadsworth]

Did nobody look at that article that showed his lineup and see how close the ownership %'s were between the two sites? I realize it's only one example, but they're pretty darn close.

Yeah, I but I have a very strong feeling that was a cherry-picked lineup.

If we are looking for an explanation for how a guy can become so +EV to explain this Ethan dude's run, ownership percentages simply ain't enough to explain it. We can debate how much of an edge it gives you, even if he's traded information with a FD employee (something for which there is no evidence whatsoever, so folks should probably calm down on those accusations). But there can't be any real question that the edge isn't THAT great. If his recent run isn't just variance from a top 0.001% player, then for those seeking an "explanation" it has to be something more nefarious.

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ethan-haskell-mlb-fanduel.jpg

Read the article then click on my sig link. Basically everything he is saying about Ethan's RotoGrinder profile is true for mine as well, just at much lower levels. Most of the money is from FD, much more success recently, etc. I do not work for DK or have any inside scoop and you could make the exact same argument with my profile. This article has no real information.

 

[TSquaredUA]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

 

[Wadsworth]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

There is no such thing as accurate player projections. Ownership percentages on the other hand is real data that can be helpful.

 

[Chaos Commish]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

Insulting irrelavant braggadocious straw man argument, great.

 

[TSquaredUA]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

There is no such thing as accurate player projections. Ownership percentages on the other hand is real data that can be helpful.

That is 100% false. I have a projection model that creates very accurate projections every week.

So you think the staff at FBG spend valuable time making projections every week just for fun?

 

[TSquaredUA]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

Insulting irrelavant braggadocious straw man argument, great.

I'm not taking advice from someone that can't spell irrelevant. I'm saying people's money is safe and they need to stop panicking. Completely relevant

 

[Wadsworth]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

There is no such thing as accurate player projections. Ownership percentages on the other hand is real data that can be helpful.

That is 100% false. I have a projection model that creates very accurate projections every week.

So you think the staff at FBG spend valuable time making projections every week just for fun?

I think we have different ideas of the meanings of "accurate" and "100%".

 

[TSquaredUA]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

There is no such thing as accurate player projections. Ownership percentages on the other hand is real data that can be helpful.

That is 100% false. I have a projection model that creates very accurate projections every week.

So you think the staff at FBG spend valuable time making projections every week just for fun?

I think we have different ideas of the meanings of "accurate" and "100%".

Projection accuracy in fantasy sports is actually pretty easy to calculate.

http://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/accuracy/

 

[Wadsworth]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

There is no such thing as accurate player projections. Ownership percentages on the other hand is real data that can be helpful.

That is 100% false. I have a projection model that creates very accurate projections every week.

So you think the staff at FBG spend valuable time making projections every week just for fun?

I think we have different ideas of the meanings of "accurate" and "100%".

Projection accuracy in fantasy sports is actually pretty easy to calculate.

http://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/accuracy/

Yea, and for years Dodds has been one of the best. But he is wrong by a lot frequently, just less often that most. That means his projection are more accurate, not accurate. No one has accurate projections. Conversely, real ownership percentage can be 100% accurate. That is data. Projections are by nature estimates and inaccurate.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

Insulting irrelavant braggadocious straw man argument, great.

I'm not taking advice from someone that can't spell irrelevant. I'm saying people's money is safe and they need to stop panicking. Completely relevant

I don't think the question is whether money is "safe", but whether people are playing a game that's crooked. DK says that the query was run after lineups were locked, but quite honestly, I don't think either your or I can definitively say how much "insider information" is being leveraged.

I think projections are more important than ownership %, but knowing the ownership %'s would clearly be a benefit. Knowing who the biggest fish are is a huge benefit. Who's to say a DK employee doesn't pass that information along to a friend to leverage, and they split the winnings? It would be stunning to me if every employee at both major companies was completely able to resist all malfeasance.

 

[Chaos Commish]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

Insulting irrelavant braggadocious straw man argument, great.

I'm not taking advice from someone that can't spell irrelevant. I'm saying people's money is safe and they need to stop panicking. Completely relevant

I don't think the question is whether money is "safe", but whether people are playing a game that's crooked. DK says that the query was run after lineups were locked, but quite honestly, I don't think either your or I can definitively say how much "insider information" is being leveraged.

I think projections are more important than ownership %, but knowing the ownership %'s would clearly be a benefit. Knowing who the biggest fish are is a huge benefit. Who's to say a DK employee doesn't pass that information along to a friend to leverage, and they split the winnings? It would be stunning to me if every employee at both major companies was completely able to resist all malfeasance.

Damn, I couldn't get irrelevant right and you nail malfeasance. smh

Of course projections have more weight than ownership. No one ever argued otherwise, thus Tsquard sort of picked a fight with straw. But whatever. People are pretty worked up and some are frustrated about that. More importantly that money you said to send you so you could burn it, tripled itself this weekend.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.

Insulting irrelavant braggadocious straw man argument, great.

I'm not taking advice from someone that can't spell irrelevant. I'm saying people's money is safe and they need to stop panicking. Completely relevant

I don't think the question is whether money is "safe", but whether people are playing a game that's crooked. DK says that the query was run after lineups were locked, but quite honestly, I don't think either your or I can definitively say how much "insider information" is being leveraged.

I think projections are more important than ownership %, but knowing the ownership %'s would clearly be a benefit. Knowing who the biggest fish are is a huge benefit. Who's to say a DK employee doesn't pass that information along to a friend to leverage, and they split the winnings? It would be stunning to me if every employee at both major companies was completely able to resist all malfeasance.

Damn, I couldn't get irrelevant right and you nail malfeasance. smh

Of course projections have more weight than ownership. No one ever argued otherwise, thus Tsquard sort of picked a fight with straw. But whatever. People are pretty worked up and some are frustrated about that. More importantly that money you said to send you so you could burn it, tripled itself this weekend.

Looks like I'm the one who got burned, then. Nice work. Hope the pool doesn't dry up too much in the near future?

That Ethan Haskell profile picture should be enough to land him in jail.

 

[SIDA!]

Never played with either of these companies.

But after hearing this, there is no way I ever will. There is no way I would agree to play with employees of the company also participating with inside info. And even if they ban insiders...they can just use surrogates.

Buh bye.

 

[Joe T]

Tsquare = Tropicalstorm ?