DFS Scandals in E.F.F.E.C.T (1 Viewer)

[Soulfly3]

Tell you what, feel free to post your lineups, and money spent. Right after kickoff on Sundays would be great. It'll be a great opportunity to show the haters what knowledge and hard work will accomplish.

https://media.giphy.com/media/iRCl3ixeBCgpi/giphy.gif

You were more entertaining when you were talking about calling the women of the night from the Canadian newspapers.

I was/am never entertaining.

 

[cockroach]

I just want the commercials to stop

I get this, but what do you think they're going to be replaced with? More Nationwide commercials? DirectTV commercials we've seen 1,000 times before? There won't be any programming or anything that you WANT to see fill that time.

 

[cstu]

I just want the commercials to stop

I get this, but what do you think they're going to be replaced with? More Nationwide commercials? DirectTV commercials we've seen 1,000 times before? There won't be any programming or anything that you WANT to see fill that time.

Anything besides ads encouraging stupid people to throw away their money.

 

[cockroach]

I just want the commercials to stop

I get this, but what do you think they're going to be replaced with? More Nationwide commercials? DirectTV commercials we've seen 1,000 times before? There won't be any programming or anything that you WANT to see fill that time.

Anything besides ads encouraging stupid people to throw away their money.

So the off air static? Every commercial is encouraging stupid people to throw away their money.

 

[cockroach]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

Yes and it would only cost 1000 times more.

Yea, and he's not playing vs. the guy with the 1 entry... he's playing vs the field. Their chances vs the field are still equal per dollar they put in.

And as mentioned there are plenty of contests where you are only allowed 1 entry. Enter those if you are concerned about going against players with multiple lineups.

 

[Soulfly3]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

Yes and it would only cost 1000 times more.

Yea, and he's not playing vs. the guy with the 1 entry... he's playing vs the field. Their chances vs the field are still equal per dollar they put in.

And as mentioned there are plenty of contests where you are only allowed 1 entry. Enter those if you are concerned about going against players with multiple lineups.

Which contests are the ones where you cant cheat with insider info to win?

I wanna play those ones

 

[cockroach]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

Yes and it would only cost 1000 times more.

Yea, and he's not playing vs. the guy with the 1 entry... he's playing vs the field. Their chances vs the field are still equal per dollar they put in.

And as mentioned there are plenty of contests where you are only allowed 1 entry. Enter those if you are concerned about going against players with multiple lineups.

Which contests are the ones where you cant cheat with insider info to win?

I wanna play those ones

Only a couple of tourneys are susceptible to that kind of stuff and what inside info they might have far from insures a win.

Question Soulfly, are you only posting in this thread because you started it? Because it seems like you know very little about the subject and you're not here to learn because you clearly aren't processing the information people have been telling you.

 

[Soulfly3]

Only a couple of tourneys are susceptible to that kind of stuff and what inside info they might have far from insures a win.
Question Soulfly, are you only posting in this thread because you started it? Because it seems like you know very little about the subject and you're not here to learn because you clearly aren't processing the information people have been telling you.

Oh, so they can only cheat in a "couple of tourneys" and it doesnt ensure a win.

Well, that settles it. I've changed my perception on DFS now.

 

[cockroach]

answer my question please

 

[Soulfly3]

I am likely one of the utmost authorities on the subject on the forum.

Ask around

 

[addicted2ff]

I'm a little confused by the terminology being thrown around in here. I thought a whale was a donator/fish who has a lot of money and ppl who have money but are good are just pros/sharks?

 

[cvnpoka]

Well I never thought I would see/hear the day - NPR with its morning coverage on fantasy football.

Topic for today? Expected forthcoming regulation of fantasy sports.

I notice that they don't really seem to notice the difference between daily FF (DFS) and general FF and fantasy sports. I think it's possible that if and when DFS is regulated other fantasy sites and sports also get regulated. I don't think they really understand the difference.

It's still on right now.

Exactly what I was afraid of.

Did anyone really doubt why these clowns and sites like FBGs were advertising/promoting this trash at such an absurd rate? They all know the days are numbered and they're trying to milk every penny out of it that they can while they still can, and when it comes tumbling down it's going to bring regular FF right along with it.

throwing 10s of millions into advertising does not seem like the best way to "milk every penny."

 

[chauncey]

I just want the commercials to stop

I get this, but what do you think they're going to be replaced with? More Nationwide commercials? DirectTV commercials we've seen 1,000 times before? There won't be any programming or anything that you WANT to see fill that time.

Anything besides ads encouraging stupid people to throw away their money.

Isn't encouraging stupid people to throw away their money what every single ad ever run was designed to do?

 

[chauncey]

I am likely one of the utmost authorities on the subject on the forum.

Ask around

I can vouch for Soulfly. He is an authority on several subjects in these hear forums.

 

[cheese]

Biggest thing I learned in this thread is that people still watch commercials. Who knew?

 

[ROCKET]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

It would be about as big of an advantage as playing 1 million power ball tickets vs someone playing one. Yes an advantage, but is it worth it and are you going to prosper doing it? Not likely.

 

[massraider]

I dont personally disagree with anything you have said here. Its a great post, and I am a big fan of DFS, so kind of on the other side of the discussion - yet I appreciate an intelligent post.

That said...everyone who plays in these, including the "whales" is an extreme underdog. Every entry in the FD Million Dollar tournamant has a one in roughly 250,000 chance of winning the ultimate prize. The odds are stacked against everyone because there is a rake. The whales can enter more lineups because they have sophisticated software and more money to play with...but each lineup is still just one of the 250K lineups out there, with a similar chance of winning as any one lineup entered by a person who follows the sport and stays up to date on the massive amount of information that is available to us. By Saturday morning I know use percentages (to a level completely adequate to allow me to use the information to my advantage), who is hurt, what the weather looks like, and I get the FBG breakdowns of all of the strengths of defenses (run and pass). If you take the time to study the information available to you, you can enter a quality lineup every time. Doesnt mean it will win, but up until 12:59 on Sunday I feel like my lineups have as good a shot as any one other lineup out there does.

Im just one person, but I can tell you my winning percentage is horrid, yet I am up over $2500 this year and I started with $100 in my account. The payouts can be substantial, on a small wager (investment - or whatever you wish to call it). Swing for the fences enough, your average may suck, but you will hit some doubles and maybe an occasional HR. You dont have to win the million dollars to make this work, and frankly even if you lose every week you can control how much, and it is still a lot of fun. I really dont get the hate (not from you, but in general) in this thread...from either side.

I think all of us who play know that the odds are against us. We dont need to be saved. We get it. We still enjoy it. It is a great rush when you enter a solid lineup and watch your position change with every play in the primetime games. Maybe not for everyone, but for some of us, its awesome. If people think we are morons for playing a game that is stacked against us, then so be it...but keep it to yourselves. You be you, I will be me. I dont need anyone to save me.

If you go into anything with your eyes open, tough to knock.

 

[ROCKET]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

Yes and it would only cost 1000 times more.

Yea, and he's not playing vs. the guy with the 1 entry... he's playing vs the field. Their chances vs the field are still equal per dollar they put in.

And as mentioned there are plenty of contests where you are only allowed 1 entry. Enter those if you are concerned about going against players with multiple lineups.

Which contests are the ones where you cant cheat with insider info to win?

I wanna play those ones

None of them , same thing goes for betting Sportsbooks in Vegas so don't bother playing those either if you hate being at a disadvantage. Also don't bother putting money in the stock market because that is the biggest scam of all, talk about disadvantages thru manipulating and inside info. Let me know when you find opportunities for investments or gambling with a level playing field for the average Joe.

 

[massraider]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

It would be about as big of an advantage as playing 1 million power ball tickets vs someone playing one. Yes an advantage, but is it worth it and are you going to prosper doing it? Not likely.

Aside from "yes an advantage", everything you said here is incorrect.

People are prospering doing it.

 

[ROCKET]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

Yes and it would only cost 1000 times more.

Yea, and he's not playing vs. the guy with the 1 entry... he's playing vs the field. Their chances vs the field are still equal per dollar they put in.

And as mentioned there are plenty of contests where you are only allowed 1 entry. Enter those if you are concerned about going against players with multiple lineups.

Which contests are the ones where you cant cheat with insider info to win?

I wanna play those ones

None of them , same thing goes for betting Sportsbooks in Vegas so don't bother playing those either if you hate being at a disadvantage. Also don't bother putting money in the stock market because that is the biggest scam of all, talk about disadvantages thru manipulating and inside info. Let me know when you find opportunities for investments or gambling with a level playing field for the average Joe. These idiots crying about a crooked DFS industry are probably the same ones who lose wads of cash every week at the local holdem games and are being fleeced by their investment broker every day.

 

[ROCKET]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

It would be about as big of an advantage as playing 1 million power ball tickets vs someone playing one. Yes an advantage, but is it worth it and are you going to prosper doing it? Not likely.

Aside from "yes an advantage", everything you said here is incorrect.

People are prospering doing it.

People are prospering from insider info?

I have no doubt people are prospering but only those who have inside info. from an actual NFL source. Newsflash, there isn't transparency in ANY facet of investing or gambling and the little guy is at a huge disadvantage in all of them. Why single out DFS?

 

[massraider]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

It would be about as big of an advantage as playing 1 million power ball tickets vs someone playing one. Yes an advantage, but is it worth it and are you going to prosper doing it? Not likely.

Aside from "yes an advantage", everything you said here is incorrect.

People are prospering doing it.

People are prospering from insider info?

I have no doubt people are prospering but only those who have inside info. from an actual NFL source.

Yes, that's incorrect too.

There are people cheating. They are prospering. This is a fact. Then there are the whales, that are throwing lots of money at it, and optimizing lineups, things that the little guy cannot do. Again, they are not cheating, but have a big, big advantage. They are prospering too.

Newsflash, there isn't transparency in ANY facet of investing or gambling and the little guy is at a huge disadvantage in all of them. Why single out DFS?

Yeah, newsflash, DFS isn't being singled out. It's simply the latest venture that is proving it needs to be regulated, just like Wall Street.

Your numbers are wrong, and your conclusions are wrong. You are 100% wrong all the way around on. This is not my opinion. You are incorrect, and hopefully no one reads your posts, and believes you know what you are talking about.

 

[eoMMan]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

It would be about as big of an advantage as playing 1 million power ball tickets vs someone playing one. Yes an advantage, but is it worth it and are you going to prosper doing it? Not likely.

Aside from "yes an advantage", everything you said here is incorrect.

People are prospering doing it.

People are prospering from insider info?

I have no doubt people are prospering but only those who have inside info. from an actual NFL source.

Yes, that's incorrect too.

There are people cheating. They are prospering. This is a fact. Then there are the whales, that are throwing lots of money at it, and optimizing lineups, things that the little guy cannot do. Again, they are not cheating, but have a big, big advantage. They are prospering too.

Newsflash, there isn't transparency in ANY facet of investing or gambling and the little guy is at a huge disadvantage in all of them. Why single out DFS?

Yeah, newsflash, DFS isn't being singled out. It's simply the latest venture that is proving it needs to be regulated, just like Wall Street.

Your numbers are wrong, and your conclusions are wrong. You are 100% wrong all the way around on. This is not my opinion. You are incorrect, and hopefully no one reads your posts, and believes you know what you are talking about.

Please start providing links to your "facts".

Thank you.

 

[massraider]

I already have, in this thread. A simple Google search will turn up all the relevant articles, which are in this thread as well.

If you and ROCKET didn't read them before, why would you read them now?

In the face of data, we get, "Oh yeah? Says you, hater!"

Are both of you, by any chance, Republican presidential candidates?

 

[BoulderBob]

All that advertising money these companies have spent has spread to this thread. Paid employees, or more likely, paid PR hacks are in this thread spreading bull#### as I type. What a crazy world we live in.

 

[BoulderBob]

And given what is at stake for certain high level investors? The PR hacks for these companies are spreading like a virus. I don't care happens to DFS, as I don't play, but I can not help but laugh at the way these companies and their investors are scrambling at the moment.

 

[Pipes]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

Yes and it would only cost 1000 times more.

Yea, and he's not playing vs. the guy with the 1 entry... he's playing vs the field. Their chances vs the field are still equal per dollar they put in.

And as mentioned there are plenty of contests where you are only allowed 1 entry. Enter those if you are concerned about going against players with multiple lineups.

Which contests are the ones where you cant cheat with insider info to win?

I wanna play those ones

None of them , same thing goes for betting Sportsbooks in Vegas so don't bother playing those either if you hate being at a disadvantage. Also don't bother putting money in the stock market because that is the biggest scam of all, talk about disadvantages thru manipulating and inside info. Let me know when you find opportunities for investments or gambling with a level playing field for the average Joe.

I love your anti stock market Schtick. Apples and oranges comparison where one is highly regulated where the average investor sees positive returns over the long haul. The other is a completely unregulated industry that's trying to pretend they are not involved in gambling.

Lets just call a spade a spade. Dailys are gambling and should be regulated as such. I think all forms of gambling should be legal but that's a whole other discussion.

 

[elbowrm]

Joe Bryant tweeted a link to the fanduel petition to "keep fantasy sports legal". The distinction between daily and season long too nuanced for this conversation at a national level, and I am afraid that concerns about throwing the baby out with the bath water are well-founded here.

FBG has an opportunity to lead that conversation, but it would appear, at least from the outset, that they've thrown their lot in with the DFS crowd.

 

[Soulfly3]

Just saw my FIRST ever Fanduel "commercial" today....

It was actually the 30min infomercial w the Barber brothers...

Is this the #### you guys have to get barraged with every few minutes on Sundays/Mondays? Good effing grief..... Thank God Canada banned this type of crap from being played on air... unfortunately, I dont think they knew the NFL network plays the infomercials at night.

I pity you guys.

 

[Rubi]

Just saw that Colorado will be making a decision next week on whether to continue to allow DFS in the state.

Nevada,a state that knows gambling says you're gambling.

Colorado,where you can legally buy a joint,questions your legitimacy.

Mr. Fogarty if you please:......"I see a bad moon rising!...."

Report today in The Orlando Sentinel said Florida legislature "will ban daily sports games very soon"

The dominos are falling fellas

 

[jvdesigns2002]

The notion that DFS is a game of "skill" and not "gambling" is ridiculous. The same kind of information and algorithms that DFS sharks use to create optimal lineups can also be used to simulate/calculate/predict scores for actaul NFL games that could be used for sports betting---and we have no problem to consider that gambling. What are we trying to say here--if you use data to predict a game score and place a bet--it's gambling--but if you use data to predict an individuals stats to place a bet---it's skill? Not only that--if it is truly a game of skill---then why do most of the fantasy websites require that players be a minimum of 18 years old? Last I checked--are games of skill only available to legal adults?

The issue here is scale and regulation. I imagine the government doesn't care much to regulate our little fantasy leagues at the workplace--or our nickel and dime home game poker nights at our homes--but they do care to regulate a billion dollar industry that is skating the edge of gambling--that has shown no ability to self regulate. The same industry changed their terms of service to allow scripting bots to create multiple optimal lineups for those of which are fortunate enough to have the means to have these bots. Now the same industry has shown that they also didn't have the ability to regulate that there could be major issues with employees being privy to information that is not available to everybody in order to give them a competitive advantage at competing sites. While all of this is happening--the same industry is spending money like crazy painting themselves as a friendly haven for everybody of all ages to put their money into--and give themselves a legit shot at winning lots of money. If you look at the casino industry in Vegas--while the hotels/casinos all advertise themselves as being great places to visit--regulations also force them to promote things like gamblers anonymous and similar things in a lot of their publishings--while the DFS sites have no obligation to do so. The DFS world is trying to get a free pass. They want all of the money, glam, lifestyles of the business side of gambling--without any of the regulations involved with it.

 

[eoMMan]

I already have, in this thread. A simple Google search will turn up all the relevant articles, which are in this thread as well.

If you and ROCKET didn't read them before, why would you read them now?

In the face of data, we get, "Oh yeah? Says you, hater!"

Are both of you, by any chance, Republican presidential candidates?

Now you're bringing politics into your horrible argument here?

Sad. Just leave this topic. You lost.

 

[oswizzle]

DFS are fun win or lose... if your banking on making a living from it... then your the same as a lotto ticket buyer

Casinos and Vegas are not down with the loss of cash.. like Uber vs NY Taxis

its all about $$$$$ and regulators want to get their greedy paws on the honey pot

 

[BoomGoesTheDynamite]

DFS are fun win or lose... if your banking on making a living from it... then your the same as a lotto ticket buyer

Casinos and Vegas are not down with the loss of cash.. like Uber vs NY Taxis

its all about $$$$$ and regulators want to get their greedy paws on the honey pot

If that were true then sports gambling would be legal across the country.

 

[Soulfly3]

Sad. Just leave this topic. You lost.

been banned and being banned in states as we speak, and "you lost" ?

ok

 

[eoMMan]

Sad. Just leave this topic. You lost.

been banned and being banned in states as we speak, and "you lost" ?

ok

Are you a massraider alias?

I wasn't addressing you.

 

[Soulfly3]

be nice.

 

[Fariq]

Just saw my FIRST ever Fanduel "commercial" today....

It was actually the 30min infomercial w the Barber brothers...

Is this the #### you guys have to get barraged with every few minutes on Sundays/Mondays? Good effing grief..... Thank God Canada banned this type of crap from being played on air... unfortunately, I dont think they knew the NFL network plays the infomercials at night.

I pity you guys.

The regular commercials are worse than the infomercial you saw. With the latter, we can change the channel. If someone is watching the infomercial it is because he/she wants to watch it.

 

[ROCKET]

I will sleep so much better at night after these DFS companies are regulated by our wonderful govt. to ensure fairness. I know everything the govt. oversees is run legitimately and there is never impropriety or corruption involved in any way, shape or form when they are involved.

 

[Ilov80s]

I will sleep so much better at night after these DFS companies are regulated by our wonderful govt. to ensure fairness. I know everything the govt. oversees is run legitimately and there is never impropriety or corruption involved in any way, shape or form when they are involved.

Thank god the Nevada government stepped in.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I will sleep so much better at night after these DFS companies are regulated by our wonderful govt. to ensure fairness. I know everything the govt. oversees is run legitimately and there is never impropriety or corruption involved in any way, shape or form when they are involved.

If this is your attempt at sarcasm--it's not a good one. You think casinos would play fair if there was no gaming commission? Yes--state and federal agencies are not perfect--but what is also a fact is that people can and do get very greedy if they are allowed to do so. The same state/government agencies that you are soo sarcastic about are providing you with the protection of emergency personel and 911 services--you have an issue with those too?

 

[ROCKET]

I will sleep so much better at night after these DFS companies are regulated by our wonderful govt. to ensure fairness. I know everything the govt. oversees is run legitimately and there is never impropriety or corruption involved in any way, shape or form when they are involved.

If this is your attempt at sarcasm--it's not a good one. You think casinos would play fair if there was no gaming commission? Yes--state and federal agencies are not perfect--but what is also a fact is that people can and do get very greedy if they are allowed to do so. The same state/government agencies that you are soo sarcastic about are providing you with the protection of emergency personel and 911 services--you have an issue with those too?

Yup, way overpaid. I'd rather see them get the salaries of our military who put there a$$ on the line every day and have your local 911 personnel receive the petty wages the soldiers get.

 

[Mister CIA]

I will sleep so much better at night after these DFS companies are regulated by our wonderful govt. to ensure fairness. I know everything the govt. oversees is run legitimately and there is never impropriety or corruption involved in any way, shape or form when they are involved.

If this is your attempt at sarcasm--it's not a good one. You think casinos would play fair if there was no gaming commission? Yes--state and federal agencies are not perfect--but what is also a fact is that people can and do get very greedy if they are allowed to do so. The same state/government agencies that you are soo sarcastic about are providing you with the protection of emergency personel and 911 services--you have an issue with those too?

Yup, way overpaid. I'd rather see them get the salaries of our military who put there ### on the line every day and have your local 911 personnel receive the petty wages the soldiers get.

Bud Light is a helluva drug.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I will sleep so much better at night after these DFS companies are regulated by our wonderful govt. to ensure fairness. I know everything the govt. oversees is run legitimately and there is never impropriety or corruption involved in any way, shape or form when they are involved.

If this is your attempt at sarcasm--it's not a good one. You think casinos would play fair if there was no gaming commission? Yes--state and federal agencies are not perfect--but what is also a fact is that people can and do get very greedy if they are allowed to do so. The same state/government agencies that you are soo sarcastic about are providing you with the protection of emergency personel and 911 services--you have an issue with those too?

Yup, way overpaid. I'd rather see them get the salaries of our military who put there ### on the line every day and have your local 911 personnel receive the petty wages the soldiers get.

I'd rather see our soldiers get paid more for doing the amazing job they do protecting our country--but that's a conversation that is not relevant for this message board. Besides that--if you are pro-military--that too is government run--and filled with bureaucracy--so you're not really supporting your point there.

 

[ROCKET]

I will sleep so much better at night after these DFS companies are regulated by our wonderful govt. to ensure fairness. I know everything the govt. oversees is run legitimately and there is never impropriety or corruption involved in any way, shape or form when they are involved.

If this is your attempt at sarcasm--it's not a good one. You think casinos would play fair if there was no gaming commission? Yes--state and federal agencies are not perfect--but what is also a fact is that people can and do get very greedy if they are allowed to do so. The same state/government agencies that you are soo sarcastic about are providing you with the protection of emergency personel and 911 services--you have an issue with those too?

Yup, way overpaid. I'd rather see them get the salaries of our military who put there ### on the line every day and have your local 911 personnel receive the petty wages the soldiers get.

I'd rather see our soldiers get paid more for doing the amazing job they do protecting our country--but that's a conversation that is not relevant for this message board. Besides that--if you are pro-military--that too is government run--and filled with bureaucracy--so you're not really supporting your point there.

You're right, it's not part of the conversation about the evils of DFS and the need for govt. intervention. I believe you were the one who brought other unrelated aspects of the govt. into the equation.

 

[massraider]

I already have, in this thread. A simple Google search will turn up all the relevant articles, which are in this thread as well.

If you and ROCKET didn't read them before, why would you read them now?

In the face of data, we get, "Oh yeah? Says you, hater!"

Are both of you, by any chance, Republican presidential candidates?

Now you're bringing politics into your horrible argument here? Sad. Just leave this topic. You lost.

I have no argument, I have facts. Which you refuse to address.

 

[cstu]

FanDuel advice: Don't let bad results shake youSBNation - ####ing shills.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I can't wait for the government to step in and save us all from ourselves! What would all of us do without other humans - apparently way more in tune with all of our needs than ourselves - telling us exactly how to behave and spend our money?? Thank god for our government. I feel so mich better now.

 

[Short Corner]

Wouldnt having 1000 entries to a 100,000 entry tourney be a "large advantage" over the guy with 1 entry?

It would be about as big of an advantage as playing 1 million power ball tickets vs someone playing one. Yes an advantage, but is it worth it and are you going to prosper doing it? Not likely.

Aside from "yes an advantage", everything you said here is incorrect.

People are prospering doing it.

People are prospering from insider info?

I have no doubt people are prospering but only those who have inside info. from an actual NFL source. Newsflash, there isn't transparency in ANY facet of investing or gambling and the little guy is at a huge disadvantage in all of them. Why single out DFS?

You might possibly be the most ignorant person in this thread.

 

[Short Corner]

I will sleep so much better at night after these DFS companies are regulated by our wonderful govt. to ensure fairness. I know everything the govt. oversees is run legitimately and there is never impropriety or corruption involved in any way, shape or form when they are involved.

If this is your attempt at sarcasm--it's not a good one. You think casinos would play fair if there was no gaming commission? Yes--state and federal agencies are not perfect--but what is also a fact is that people can and do get very greedy if they are allowed to do so. The same state/government agencies that you are soo sarcastic about are providing you with the protection of emergency personel and 911 services--you have an issue with those too?

You need lookno further than the derivatives market.