DJ Williams and Denver Scheme Discussion (1 Viewer)

[Sigmund Bloom]

Anyone who has been watching the Broncos want to weigh in on this one?

 

[J Giles Band]

Anyone who has been watching the Broncos want to weigh in on this one?

I'm all ears...

 

[RavenCRH]

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

My main beef with DJ is that he never seems to instinctively flow to the play, and he doesnt give up his body when the play calls for it. These are both crucial MLB skills. He is still playing like an OLB even though he's in the middle. Whether they pull the trigger or not, the right call is to put him back outside.

 

[5Rings]

My main beef with DJ is that he never seems to instinctively flow to the play, and he doesnt give up his body when the play calls for it. These are both crucial MLB skills. He is still playing like an OLB even though he's in the middle. Whether they pull the trigger or not, the right call is to put him back outside.

They had Sterling Sharpe on Sirius the other day....said that DJ was not a MLB, he was a will parading as a mike. He said he still over runs plays, giving RBs huge cut back lanes to get "17 yards each time", and that he would switch Webster and DJ, regardless of DJ's stats from last week.

 

[J Giles Band]

Anyone who has been watching the Broncos want to weigh in on this one?

Just finished listening to the podcast. Enjoyed listening to your guys thoughts, but the DJ Williams topic sounded a bit like speculation. I didn't hear anything in the discussion that cited a source for the potential move. I can appreciate the "where there's smoke there's fire" theory... but is there any evidence from the Broncos themselves or their beat writers to substantiate?Thanks

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Anyone who has been watching the Broncos want to weigh in on this one?

Just finished listening to the podcast. Enjoyed listening to your guys thoughts, but the DJ Williams topic sounded a bit like speculation. I didn't hear anything in the discussion that cited a source for the potential move. I can appreciate the "where there's smoke there's fire" theory... but is there any evidence from the Broncos themselves or their beat writers to substantiate?Thanks

All I can tell you is that when we put out feelers in training camp and during the first four weeks, all we heard was that they would not move DJ this year. Now we are hearing that they are considering it - take whatever you want out of that, but I believe it means that they are preparing to make the move.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

More DJ talk in our interview with Andy Lindahl

Lindahl gives us Schlereth's take on DJ.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Whispers about potential changes in the run defense have already begun.

The writer stops short of predicting "personnel changes" but brings up missed assignments and poor tackling but the underlying theme of, "it's time to do something about the run defense" now includes Bates and the players, not just grumpy columnists and fans. Not that teams necessarily play politics with their fans in every case, but Williams was strongly backed by this coaching staff, maybe more to chill the fan base after the unexpected (at the time) release of Al Wilson, that it may take a bit of finessing to make the positional switch.

The key here is, though, that Webster knows how to play in the middle and Williams knows how to play outside so the move would be seamless and not as big a deal on-field as the Beason-Anderson deal in Carolina might be.

Bates is preaching patience but, while it is just speculation, the door is more than a little open now.

 

[J Giles Band]

Whispers about potential changes in the run defense have already begun.

The writer stops short of predicting "personnel changes" but brings up missed assignments and poor tackling but the underlying theme of, "it's time to do something about the run defense" now includes Bates and the players, not just grumpy columnists and fans. Not that teams necessarily play politics with their fans in every case, but Williams was strongly backed by this coaching staff, maybe more to chill the fan base after the unexpected (at the time) release of Al Wilson, that it may take a bit of finessing to make the positional switch.

The key here is, though, that Webster knows how to play in the middle and Williams knows how to play outside so the move would be seamless and not as big a deal on-field as the Beason-Anderson deal in Carolina might be.

Bates is preaching patience but, while it is just speculation, the door is more than a little open now.

Thanks for the forewarning. As they used to say in the scouts, "be prepared." That said, I believe your last statement is easily the closest to the truth right now.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Many, including me, have held onto Williams, waiting for him to move from SLB to a better fantasy position. His numbers are better than his play. I think it's time to consider selling high. Most will not be digging this deep into his situation, so there is a solid market for him. I was hoping he would have been better, good enough to hold, but the uncertainty leads me to believe selling is the best option. I have him as a sell high in my weekly article. He is currently 13th in FBG scoring.

Remember, all IDP players are not following this as deeply as we are, so there is a market.

Thoughts?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Many, including me, have held onto Williams, waiting for him to move from SLB to a better fantasy position. His numbers are better than his play. I think it's time to consider selling high. Most will not be digging this deep into his situation, so there is a solid market for him. I was hoping he would have been better, good enough to hold, but the uncertainty leads me to believe selling is the best option. I have him as a sell high in my weekly article. He is currently 13th in FBG scoring.Remember, all IDP players are not following this as deeply as we are, so there is a market. Thoughts?

I sold high once I saw him in camp in one 16 team dynasty (for Ahman Green in a trade we discussed on this board), and then I included him in a trade last week in another 16 team dynasty (Ben/Peppers/DJ/Kolb for VY/Ray Edwards/Marcus Washington) once I saw it wasnt getting any better in the first month.As long as the other owner isnt a FBG, you should be able to cash in.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Many, including me, have held onto Williams, waiting for him to move from SLB to a better fantasy position. His numbers are better than his play. I think it's time to consider selling high. Most will not be digging this deep into his situation, so there is a solid market for him. I was hoping he would have been better, good enough to hold, but the uncertainty leads me to believe selling is the best option. I have him as a sell high in my weekly article. He is currently 13th in FBG scoring.Remember, all IDP players are not following this as deeply as we are, so there is a market. Thoughts?

The opportunity while DJ is still in the middle is so good right now, regardless of how he's getting it done, that I think you hold unless you get LB2 or equivalent value (including future value in dynasty leagues) or have the depth such that losing DJ isn't a major blow to your starting lineup in the interim anyway. I'd be much more inclined to move him in dynasty leagues than redrafts obviously.

 

[J Giles Band]

Many, including me, have held onto Williams, waiting for him to move from SLB to a better fantasy position. His numbers are better than his play. I think it's time to consider selling high. Most will not be digging this deep into his situation, so there is a solid market for him. I was hoping he would have been better, good enough to hold, but the uncertainty leads me to believe selling is the best option. I have him as a sell high in my weekly article. He is currently 13th in FBG scoring.Remember, all IDP players are not following this as deeply as we are, so there is a market. Thoughts?

The opportunity while DJ is still in the middle is so good right now, regardless of how he's getting it done, that I think you hold unless you get LB2 or equivalent value (including future value in dynasty leagues) or have the depth such that losing DJ isn't a major blow to your starting lineup in the interim anyway. I'd be much more inclined to move him in dynasty leagues than redrafts obviously.

Funny you should say that Jene... I was just thinking the same thing. I mean, it's great if you can get tremendous value for him. But if not, I'd take a bit more of a wait and see approach. I need more than a Denver sports radio talk host and Mark Schlereth to jump ship just yet. I don't doubt that the switch is likely to happen. But I'd also argue that without hearing it publicly from beat writers, or some indication of it from the team it is also possible it won't happen and Bronco's followers are just in panic mode right now. I would hate to deal a 100+ tackle MLB on rumor and innuendo alone.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Before you cut bait on him, didn't I hear that Gold is getting an MRI done? Is there a chance DJ moves to WLB instead of SLB?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Before you cut bait on him, didn't I hear that Gold is getting an MRI done? Is there a chance DJ moves to WLB instead of SLB?

Thats a great thought Construx. His value would not take as badly a hit if thats his eventual destination, but Denver WLB is not a big time IDP position, he would probably be an LB3/LB4 in that role.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Many, including me, have held onto Williams, waiting for him to move from SLB to a better fantasy position. His numbers are better than his play. I think it's time to consider selling high. Most will not be digging this deep into his situation, so there is a solid market for him. I was hoping he would have been better, good enough to hold, but the uncertainty leads me to believe selling is the best option. I have him as a sell high in my weekly article. He is currently 13th in FBG scoring.Remember, all IDP players are not following this as deeply as we are, so there is a market. Thoughts?

The opportunity while DJ is still in the middle is so good right now, regardless of how he's getting it done, that I think you hold unless you get LB2 or equivalent value (including future value in dynasty leagues) or have the depth such that losing DJ isn't a major blow to your starting lineup in the interim anyway. I'd be much more inclined to move him in dynasty leagues than redrafts obviously.

Funny you should say that Jene... I was just thinking the same thing. I mean, it's great if you can get tremendous value for him. But if not, I'd take a bit more of a wait and see approach. I need more than a Denver sports radio talk host and Mark Schlereth to jump ship just yet. I don't doubt that the switch is likely to happen. But I'd also argue that without hearing it publicly from beat writers, or some indication of it from the team it is also possible it won't happen and Bronco's followers are just in panic mode right now. I would hate to deal a 100+ tackle MLB on rumor and innuendo alone.

JGB, in all due respect, the talk from Lindahl and Schlereth and Sharpe and Lammey and myself is only a tiny reason to trade DJ. I mean dont listen to us, WATCH THE GAMES! If you watch DJ, you will see pretty quickly that he's not working out as an MLB. THAT's the main reason to trade him. Who cares what we say? The play on the field tells you all you need to know, unless you think the coaches are not rational actors, and believe me that is not something to throw out in all cases (cough Norv Turner cough), but in this case, I think Denver will make the right call. DJ could end up back in the middle because of injuries/worse play from his replacement, but man they are hurting in run D as long as he is in there.

 

[J Giles Band]

Many, including me, have held onto Williams, waiting for him to move from SLB to a better fantasy position. His numbers are better than his play. I think it's time to consider selling high. Most will not be digging this deep into his situation, so there is a solid market for him. I was hoping he would have been better, good enough to hold, but the uncertainty leads me to believe selling is the best option. I have him as a sell high in my weekly article. He is currently 13th in FBG scoring.Remember, all IDP players are not following this as deeply as we are, so there is a market. Thoughts?

The opportunity while DJ is still in the middle is so good right now, regardless of how he's getting it done, that I think you hold unless you get LB2 or equivalent value (including future value in dynasty leagues) or have the depth such that losing DJ isn't a major blow to your starting lineup in the interim anyway. I'd be much more inclined to move him in dynasty leagues than redrafts obviously.

Funny you should say that Jene... I was just thinking the same thing. I mean, it's great if you can get tremendous value for him. But if not, I'd take a bit more of a wait and see approach. I need more than a Denver sports radio talk host and Mark Schlereth to jump ship just yet. I don't doubt that the switch is likely to happen. But I'd also argue that without hearing it publicly from beat writers, or some indication of it from the team it is also possible it won't happen and Bronco's followers are just in panic mode right now. I would hate to deal a 100+ tackle MLB on rumor and innuendo alone.

JGB, in all due respect, the talk from Lindahl and Schlereth and Sharpe and Lammey and myself is only a tiny reason to trade DJ. I mean dont listen to us, WATCH THE GAMES! If you watch DJ, you will see pretty quickly that he's not working out as an MLB. THAT's the main reason to trade him. Who cares what we say? The play on the field tells you all you need to know, unless you think the coaches are not rational actors, and believe me that is not something to throw out in all cases (cough Norv Turner cough), but in this case, I think Denver will make the right call. DJ could end up back in the middle because of injuries/worse play from his replacement, but man they are hurting in run D as long as he is in there.

Well said.

 

[Jene Bramel]

The other thing to remember in this situation, as I worry over losing my Whopper bet to Norton, is that Nate Webster has struggled to finish a season healthy, most recently due to a torn patellar tendon that cost him much of two seasons.

The WLB issue is an interesting one, but the team seems to like Jamie Winborn (as does everyone until the lights go on, when he's ineffective and fragile as Dan Morgan) and would probably plug him in at the Will if Gold is out for any extended duration.

And, FWIW, Cecil Lammey has a long history of covering the Broncos and has access behind the scenes. If he and Bloom are hearing or seeing a change in the weather, even my man-love for DJ's situation has to be reconsidered.

 

[J Giles Band]

The other thing to remember in this situation, as I worry over losing my Whopper bet to Norton, is that Nate Webster has struggled to finish a season healthy, most recently due to a torn patellar tendon that cost him much of two seasons.The WLB issue is an interesting one, but the team seems to like Jamie Winborn (as does everyone until the lights go on, when he's ineffective and fragile as Dan Morgan) and would probably plug him in at the Will if Gold is out for any extended duration.And, FWIW, Cecil Lammey has a long history of covering the Broncos and has access behind the scenes. If he and Bloom are hearing or seeing a change in the weather, even my man-love for DJ's situation has to be reconsidered.

Again, all terrific points. And Bloomer, I hope you didn't take offense in my contrarion view. I tend to agree with your expectations. I just didn't hear enough evidence in the podcast discussion and I'm not one to put all my eggs in one basket. I try to anticipate all outcomes.And Jene... we are on the same page with DJ. I drool over his and the "other" DJ's (Derrick Johnson) talent.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

someone wrote in to the mailbag to the denver post and asked if DJ was at fault for much of the broncos woes stopping the run. it talks about comments made by roid- i mean romo that i'd like to find.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_6986893

 

[J Giles Band]

Anyone who has been watching the Broncos want to weigh in on this one?

I've watched some of the Broncos game today and it appeared as though DJ was still in the middle. That said, he hasn't been very productive today. He has only 3 tackles against a decidely run-heavy offense with less than 6 minutes left in the game.I suppose after today's drubbing wholesale changes could be in store for that defense.Anyone with updates?

 

[erymer]

Well I moved DJ last night in my 16 team keeper league. I got a 5th rd pick for a 9th. I wanted to try to get some value while I still could. I have good depth at the position with Ray Lewis, Beason and Keiaho. Thanks for the heads up on DJ.

 

[Bossman]

Well I moved DJ last night in my 16 team keeper league. I got a 5th rd pick for a 9th. I wanted to try to get some value while I still could. I have good depth at the position with Ray Lewis, Beason and Keiaho. Thanks for the heads up on DJ.

wow.. his value has fallen quite a bit.Is it a given thay he'll lose the MLB position?

 

[erymer]

Well I moved DJ last night in my 16 team keeper league. I got a 5th rd pick for a 9th. I wanted to try to get some value while I still could. I have good depth at the position with Ray Lewis, Beason and Keiaho. Thanks for the heads up on DJ.

wow.. his value has fallen quite a bit.Is it a given thay he'll lose the MLB position?

Obviously I would have liked to have gotten more, but I needed the roster spot and had to make a move quickly. I felt like I had good depth and didn't want to take any chances. In this particular league the high end defensive guys pull 2-3 value, so I felt like a 5th was pretty good. I just think if he does move from the middle his numbers would be in for a significant decline.

 

[J Giles Band]

The other thing to remember in this situation, as I worry over losing my Whopper bet to Norton, is that Nate Webster has struggled to finish a season healthy, most recently due to a torn patellar tendon that cost him much of two seasons.The WLB issue is an interesting one, but the team seems to like Jamie Winborn (as does everyone until the lights go on, when he's ineffective and fragile as Dan Morgan) and would probably plug him in at the Will if Gold is out for any extended duration.And, FWIW, Cecil Lammey has a long history of covering the Broncos and has access behind the scenes. If he and Bloom are hearing or seeing a change in the weather, even my man-love for DJ's situation has to be reconsidered.

Well guys... what's the latest news on DJ's position switch??? Happening? Not happening? Inevitable? I gotta think if the Broncos are gonna make the switch they'd do it coming out of the bye. But after much talk about this 2 weeks ago things have gone silent as a church mouse.

 

[tommyk7]

I don't know but Webster has ok solo numbers the last three games for DEN - 6, 4, 5. Gold had six solos in two of his last two of three games too.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

the doomsday news just hit for DJ williams owners, this from rotoworld

The Broncos reportedly got rid of assistant head coach/defense Jim Bates' system during their Week 6 bye.

"We just don't have the personnel to play it," a Denver insider told FOXSports.com. The addition of Bates and Dre' Bly excited us in the offseason about Denver's fantasy defense, but they haven't delivered. This might be bad news for Broncos middle linebacker D.J. Williams' statistics.

Source: FOXSports.com

Related: Dre' Bly, D.J. Williams

 

[Simris]

Junked Bates system and moved to 'what'?

How do we know DJ's numbers will take a hit? What will he be doing more/less of?

 

[Jene Bramel]

Junked Bates system and moved to 'what'?How do we know DJ's numbers will take a hit? What will he be doing more/less of?

Major differencesefensive ends may play closer to the tackles. They won't have as much of an angle to get by the OTs. Probably hurts Dumervil's every down value the most. The "old" Broncos likely to use slimmer DTs, looking for penetration rather than plugging gaps. Hurts a MLB, like Williams, who wants to run around blocks rather than take on and shed. Less blitzing than what the team had planned to do this season as well. May or may not also mean more Cover-2 than what had been run thus far, although Bailey and Bly are more than capable of running man coverage. If more Cover-2, a lot of Nick Ferguson's value thus far goes away.

 

[Simris]

Thank you for that, Jene.

 

[J Giles Band]

Junked Bates system and moved to 'what'?How do we know DJ's numbers will take a hit? What will he be doing more/less of?

Major differencesefensive ends may play closer to the tackles. They won't have as much of an angle to get by the OTs. Probably hurts Dumervil's every down value the most. The "old" Broncos likely to use slimmer DTs, looking for penetration rather than plugging gaps. Hurts a MLB, like Williams, who wants to run around blocks rather than take on and shed. Less blitzing than what the team had planned to do this season as well. May or may not also mean more Cover-2 than what had been run thus far, although Bailey and Bly are more than capable of running man coverage. If more Cover-2, a lot of Nick Ferguson's value thus far goes away.

Is it safe to say DJ is someone to avoid at this point???

 

[Jene Bramel]

Junked Bates system and moved to 'what'?How do we know DJ's numbers will take a hit? What will he be doing more/less of?

Major differencesefensive ends may play closer to the tackles. They won't have as much of an angle to get by the OTs. Probably hurts Dumervil's every down value the most. The "old" Broncos likely to use slimmer DTs, looking for penetration rather than plugging gaps. Hurts a MLB, like Williams, who wants to run around blocks rather than take on and shed. Less blitzing than what the team had planned to do this season as well. May or may not also mean more Cover-2 than what had been run thus far, although Bailey and Bly are more than capable of running man coverage. If more Cover-2, a lot of Nick Ferguson's value thus far goes away.

Is it safe to say DJ is someone to avoid at this point???

Not necessarily. The Denver run defense has been so bad that Williams will still get plenty of opportunity. Whether he can do anything with it is another story. And since Williams was supposed to be Bates' MLB, the writing would appear to be finally darkening from pencil to ink. It won't shock me at all to see Williams playing outside today if the above news is accurate.

 

[Simris]

2 1 Interceptions

2 2 Passes Defensed

7 7 Tackles

1 2 Assists

12 Subtotal

Not a bad line. Denve's D seemed to play well overall even w/o Champ.

Line seemed to get some pressure and Bly had some action.

Not sure what to make of the 'Den D changes'.

 

[J Giles Band]

2 1 Interceptions 2 2 Passes Defensed 7 7 Tackles 1 2 Assists 12 Subtotal Not a bad line. Denve's D seemed to play well overall even w/o Champ.Line seemed to get some presure and Bly had some action.Not sure what to make of the 'Den D changes'.

Jene - I'm intersted to hear your analysis of DJ's play (and role) tonight...

 

[Jene Bramel]

I'll review the game again sometime today, but my first impressions were that there were no notable defensive changes, other than selling out to stop the run even more than Bates might usually. On base defensive downs, I saw very little Cover-2 and Ferguson in the box a significant amount of time. And I noticed a different Williams -- less hesitant and more downhill. Still not getting off blocks well when engaged, but a little better.

The defense last night looked more like a "Bates" scheme than what Coyer used last year. Whether that was opponent generated or not is hard to say.

 

[J Giles Band]

I'll review the game again sometime today, but my first impressions were that there were no notable defensive changes, other than selling out to stop the run even more than Bates might usually. On base defensive downs, I saw very little Cover-2 and Ferguson in the box a significant amount of time. And I noticed a different Williams -- less hesitant and more downhill. Still not getting off blocks well when engaged, but a little better.The defense last night looked more like a "Bates" scheme than what Coyer used last year. Whether that was opponent generated or not is hard to say.

I'm still considering making a move for DJ but want to feel certain about him staying in the middle first. If they didn't switch him during the bye... I have my doubts it's gonna happen. Unless the news is coming from the BRONCOS next time, I'm thinking he stays put.

 

[rascal]

Pittsburgh at Denver: The Broncos spent the bye week junking defensive coordinator Jim Bates' system and going back to what they played last season. "We just don't have the personnel to play it," said one Denver insider. The Broncos better try something new because they are allowing more rushing yards (187.6) a game than what the mighty Steelers are running for — 167 yards a game.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7358452

Anybody else see something along these lines?

 

[J Giles Band]

There is another thread which goes into more detail on this from last week...

Basically it appeared that the Broncos DID NOT in fact switch back to their old scheme. By all accounts they still played the Bates scheme with quite a bit more success.

 

[rascal]

I didn't see the other thread as I read every thread title in this forum for the past two weeks.

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. The broncos regularly had 9 men in the box and blitzed regularly which is not what Bates system does.

 

[J Giles Band]

It's not my assessment... it's the FBG's.

If you find the thread you'll get the more detailed analysis. I tend to trust Jene implicitly. The guy knows his ####.

 

[rascal]

was it this forum?

 

[J Giles Band]

Yes

 

[The Man With No Name]

was it this forum?

See the 'DJ Williams Discussion' thread on page 2, I think thats the one

 

[Jene Bramel]

Merged the two threads.

I've learned not to trust anything Czarnecki has to say on Sunday mornings until I see it on the field. That guy is routinely wrong -- most recently his report that DeShaun Foster would be inactive yesterday AM.

Also, I'd like to think I'm on top of most things, but I would never go so far as to say I'm the only authority and I definitely value as many opinions as possible. I'm definitely interested to see what rascal thinks. And I'm very interested in seeing how things look tonight, since, while putting 8 in the box and LB blitzing is more Jim Bates than Larry Coyer, that may have been gameplanning for the Steelers more than anything else.

If you see a bunch of Cover-2 tonight against Favre and a passing GB offense, it may mean that things are indeed changing. There will be other keys (eg which DL personnel they use and how they align) to look for as well.

This story isn't over yet.

 

[Mikey16x]

ya and i need DJ to come up big 2nite aswell as nick ferge and atari bigby vs brett farve and im down 6 pts grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[J Giles Band]

Merged the two threads.I've learned not to trust anything Czarnecki has to say on Sunday mornings until I see it on the field. That guy is routinely wrong -- most recently his report that DeShaun Foster would be inactive yesterday AM.Also, I'd like to think I'm on top of most things, but I would never go so far as to say I'm the only authority and I definitely value as many opinions as possible. I'm definitely interested to see what rascal thinks. And I'm very interested in seeing how things look tonight, since, while putting 8 in the box and LB blitzing is more Jim Bates than Larry Coyer, that may have been gameplanning for the Steelers more than anything else. If you see a bunch of Cover-2 tonight against Favre and a passing GB offense, it may mean that things are indeed changing. There will be other keys (eg which DL personnel they use and how they align) to look for as well.This story isn't over yet.

Interested to hear your thoughts coming out of tonight...

 

[Jene Bramel]

Still some eight in the box this week, but much more Cover-2. Again, it's very difficult to say whether that was gameplan related or a philosophical shift. Regardless, it's another week where DJ looked like the best linebacker the Broncos have and more like a MLB than an OLB. Hopefully, the injury doesn't slow him down.

 

[J Giles Band]

Still some eight in the box this week, but much more Cover-2. Again, it's very difficult to say whether that was gameplan related or a philosophical shift. Regardless, it's another week where DJ looked like the best linebacker the Broncos have and more like a MLB than an OLB. Hopefully, the injury doesn't slow him down.

Injury?

 

[Jene Bramel]

Still some eight in the box this week, but much more Cover-2. Again, it's very difficult to say whether that was gameplan related or a philosophical shift. Regardless, it's another week where DJ looked like the best linebacker the Broncos have and more like a MLB than an OLB. Hopefully, the injury doesn't slow him down.

Injury? :whoosh:

Apparently had a tear of his lat muscle during the game last night. He was still hitting, but it clearly affected how easily he brought RBs down.