Do "dawn" and "don" rhyme? (1 Viewer)

[Radical Larry]

Can I get cliffs here? 11 pages on two words rhyming

I think I figured it outeople that live(d) in states that border the Great Lakes talk all weird and stuff.

60% of people voting in this poll live that close to the Great Lakes?

I think lots of people voted no because words can't rhyme with themselves. link

so Larry can't create polls correctly either?"Ouch."

That was covered in the first couple of pages. The poll should be "are they homophones".But Kid Rock would beg to differ.

 

[Radical Larry]

Can I get cliffs here? 11 pages on two words rhyming

I think I figured it outeople that live(d) in states that border the Great Lakes talk all weird and stuff.

60% of people voting in this poll live that close to the Great Lakes?

That's like 8 states. Fairly populated states at that.

sucks being a minority, huh?

Not when I'm right.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

sucks being a minority, huh?

Not when I'm right.

Yeah, but this time it sucks, huh?

 

[Radical Larry]

sucks being a minority, huh?

Not when I'm right.

Yeah, but this time it sucks, huh?

No, because I'm right.

 

[Harry Manback]

sucks being a minority, huh?

Not when I'm right.

Yeah, but this time it sucks, huh?

No, because I'm right.

Larry makes a valid point.

 

[mr. furley]

too late for the Sexy Beast jokes?

 

[bostonfred]

This thread clearly needed Furley.

 

[dickey moe]

57.823129251700680272108843537415% of the population (FFA representative sample) are apparently morons.

 

[Radical Larry]

57.823129251700680272108843537415% of the population (FFA representative sample) are apparently morons.

You get your toilet fixed yet?

 

[Death Bytes]

Pretty sure thats strictly a Wisconsin thing

"Her boobs say-gg down to her knees"

Like that?

Well, that explains the source of all the cheese from Wisconsin.I always thought it was from cows.

 

[Thorn]

Who speaks better English? Simon Cowell or Matt Lauer?

In Britian or in New York?

Pick one -- trying to come up with a single proper & correct standard of English that everyone is supposed to aim for.

No offense but that seems like a dumb idea.

 

[This is LJ]

LeBRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

You're saying it wrong.

From the horse's mouth: LeBron in the third person

 

[Radical Larry]

Who speaks better English? Simon Cowell or Matt Lauer?

In Britian or in New York?

Pick one -- trying to come up with a single proper & correct standard of English that everyone is supposed to aim for.

No offense but that seems like a dumb idea.

From the guy that probably sounds like the old Pepperidge Farm guy.

 

[Finless]

The real disagreement is with the pronunciation of "Dawn," and there will never be a consensus because it absolutely depends on where you live. I had to go to Boston for work several years ago, and a guy there kept raving about this hot new intern "Don" ...

I made sure he was talking about a female, and finally, only after he WROTE her name did I realize it was "Dawn" he was saying.

Folks from Boston most definitely pronounce Don and Dawn differently.

Well, that settles that. This guy who was born and raised in Boston and said "Don" / "Dawn" indentically was just a figment of my imagination.

Maybe a sample size of more than one man would serve you a little better.

I pronounce them the same. Not sure how they could be different. I mean honestly, is the w even coming into play here? Same word phonetically...case closed

 

[Otis]

I pronounce them the same. Not sure how they could be different.

"Aw" vs. "Ah"Happy to help.

 

[bostonfred]

I pronounce them the same. Not sure how they could be different.

"Aw" vs. "Ah"Happy to help.

I need a cup of coffee - which is pronounced cahfee - and would be pronounced cahfee even if it were spelled cawfee - and should never, ever be pronounced the way you pronounce it - before I can continue edifying your ilk.

 

[Early_10]

I live in Canada how the hell can the test peg me as being from Boston???

Newfoundland is the Canadian Wisconsin?

What American accent do you have?Your Result: The Inland North You may think you speak "Standard English straight out of the dictionary" but when you step away from the Great Lakes you get asked annoying questions like "Are you from Wisconsin?" or "Are you from Chicago?" Chances are you call carbonated drinks "pop."

 

[Doug B]

Who speaks better English? Simon Cowell or Matt Lauer?

In Britian or in New York?

Pick one -- trying to come up with a single proper & correct standard of English that everyone is supposed to aim for.

No offense but that seems like a dumb idea.

That's exactly the point -- it's a ridiculously dumb idea.Can't say "I'm right and you're wrong" when there is no standard. Right/wrong compared to what?

 

[Doug B]

Same word phonetically...case closed

Nope.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I pronounce them the same. Not sure how they could be different.

"Aw" vs. "Ah"Happy to help.

I need a cup of coffee - which is pronounced cahfee - and would be pronounced cahfee even if it were spelled cawfee - and should never, ever be pronounced the way you pronounce it - before I can continue edifying your ilk.

You are insane. The only people that say cahfee are people trying to sound smarter then everyone else or those that sadly don't know better or are so hung over that it doesn't matter. It's pronounced cawfee although the aw part isn't as hard as some people make it either.As for the don dawn thing, Otis is right. Yeah, I said it. Don Corleone is a tough SOB that could kill you with a nod of the head or a gun wrapped in a sheet in a dark hallway. Dawn Corleone is the loose half sister of the family who sleeps around with all the guys who can't read because it makes her feel smarter.

 

[Flying V]

Dawn Corleone.

 

[bostonfred]

I pronounce them the same. Not sure how they could be different.

"Aw" vs. "Ah"Happy to help.

I need a cup of coffee - which is pronounced cahfee - and would be pronounced cahfee even if it were spelled cawfee - and should never, ever be pronounced the way you pronounce it - before I can continue edifying your ilk.

You are insane. The only people that say cahfee are people trying to sound smarter then everyone else or those that sadly don't know better or are so hung over that it doesn't matter. It's pronounced cawfee although the aw part isn't as hard as some people make it either.As for the don dawn thing, Otis is right. Yeah, I said it. Don Corleone is a tough SOB that could kill you with a nod of the head or a gun wrapped in a sheet in a dark hallway. Dawn Corleone is the loose half sister of the family who sleeps around with all the guys who can't read because it makes her feel smarter.

I think it's outstanding that you associate the "cahfee" sound with intelligence. The prosecution rests.

 

[DoubleG]

The real disagreement is with the pronunciation of "Dawn," and there will never be a consensus because it absolutely depends on where you live. I had to go to Boston for work several years ago, and a guy there kept raving about this hot new intern "Don" ...

I made sure he was talking about a female, and finally, only after he WROTE her name did I realize it was "Dawn" he was saying.

Folks from Boston most definitely pronounce Don and Dawn differently.

Well, that settles that. This guy who was born and raised in Boston and said "Don" / "Dawn" indentically was just a figment of my imagination.

Maybe a sample size of more than one man would serve you a little better.

I pronounce them the same. Not sure how they could be different. I mean honestly, is the w even coming into play here? Same word phonetically...case closed

No. And that's the problem. It should, but it's not (at least not for those who pronounce them the same (i.e incorrectly)). And therin lies the debate......just doing my part to make sure we go another 12 pages.

 

[Ilov80s]

Anyone interested should read History of English Low Back Vowels

Go to the section called "Cot-caught" merger.

The cot-caught merger (also known as the low back merger) is a phonemic merger, a sound change, that occurs in some varieties of English...is best known as a phenomenon of many varieties of North American English.

It is very widespread across Canada, the Boston, Massachusetts area (see Boston accent) and northeastern New England, the Pittsburgh area (see Pittsburghese), and is also heard throughout the western U.S. The latter seems to be the source of its introduction into the Midwest as it appears to be spreading eastward. A recent survey directed by William Labov of the University of Pennsylvania has shown that the merger can be found today among younger generations (roughly people under 40) in Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas

.Labov et al. also reveal that about 15% of respondents have the merger before /n/ but not before /t/, so that Don and Dawn are homophonous, but cot and caught are not. A much smaller group (about 4%) has the reverse situation: cot and caught are homophonous but Don and Dawn are distinct.

So anyone implying that the difference in pronunciation is a new abomination to language is wrong. The merger is actually new and spreading. Fred, I am sorry, but you are a sad man. You are fighting to save our dear language and yet you yourself have unknowingly become destroyed by it. Not only entirely destroyed, but turned inside out to the point that you believe right is wrong and black is white.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Anyone interested should read History of English Low Back Vowels

Go to the section called "Cot-caught" merger.

The cot-caught merger (also known as the low back merger) is a phonemic merger, a sound change, that occurs in some varieties of English...is best known as a phenomenon of many varieties of North American English.

It is very widespread across Canada, the Boston, Massachusetts area (see Boston accent) and northeastern New England, the Pittsburgh area (see Pittsburghese), and is also heard throughout the western U.S. The latter seems to be the source of its introduction into the Midwest as it appears to be spreading eastward. A recent survey directed by William Labov of the University of Pennsylvania has shown that the merger can be found today among younger generations (roughly people under 40) in Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas

.Labov et al. also reveal that about 15% of respondents have the merger before /n/ but not before /t/, so that Don and Dawn are homophonous, but cot and caught are not. A much smaller group (about 4%) has the reverse situation: cot and caught are homophonous but Don and Dawn are distinct.

So anyone implying that the difference in pronunciation is a new abomination to language is wrong. The merger is actually new and spreading. Fred, I am sorry, but you are a sad man. You are fighting to save our dear language and yet you yourself have unknowingly become destroyed by it. Not only entirely destroyed, but turned inside out to the point that you believe right is wrong and black is white.

sick ownage here.sad that so many of you have been infected by this virus.

 

[bostonfred]

So anyone implying that the difference in pronunciation is a new abomination to language is wrong. The merger is actually new and spreading. Fred, I am sorry, but you are a sad man. You are fighting to save our dear language and yet you yourself have unknowingly become destroyed by it. Not only entirely destroyed, but turned inside out to the point that you believe right is wrong and black is white.

I really don't care which order things happened in. The question is which is preferable. First, the cacaphonic pronuncuations of cawfee and doe-un are unambiguously worse on the ear. Second, the need for multiple but similar sounds in words makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand. It's OK for words that are spelled differently to sound the same. That's why there's a name for it. Third, your own link points out that it's spreading through the most educated areas of the country. That implies that the smart people know it's better. I'm sorry you're not part of that camp.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I think it's outstanding that you associate the "cahfee" sound with fake intelligence. The prosecution rests.

Cool.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

So anyone implying that the difference in pronunciation is a new abomination to language is wrong. The merger is actually new and spreading. Fred, I am sorry, but you are a sad man. You are fighting to save our dear language and yet you yourself have unknowingly become destroyed by it. Not only entirely destroyed, but turned inside out to the point that you believe right is wrong and black is white.

I really don't care which order things happened in. The question is which is preferable. First, the cacaphonic pronuncuations of cawfee and doe-un are unambiguously worse on the ear. Second, the need for multiple but similar sounds in words makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand. It's OK for words that are spelled differently to sound the same. That's why there's a name for it. Third, your own link points out that it's spreading through the most educated areas of the country. That implies that the smart people know it's better. I'm sorry you're not part of that camp.

Do you think there are any other vowel sounds in the English language that we should get rid of? Or just this one?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

.Labov et al. also reveal that about 15% of respondents have the merger before /n/ but not before /t/, so that Don and Dawn are homophonous, but cot and caught are not. A much smaller group (about 4%) has the reverse situation: cot and caught are homophonous but Don and Dawn are distinct.

Cot and caught do not sound alike, and neither do dawn and don.I'm trying to write a brief here and my head is going to explode. Maybe I should get some coffee.

 

[bostonfred]

So anyone implying that the difference in pronunciation is a new abomination to language is wrong. The merger is actually new and spreading. Fred, I am sorry, but you are a sad man. You are fighting to save our dear language and yet you yourself have unknowingly become destroyed by it. Not only entirely destroyed, but turned inside out to the point that you believe right is wrong and black is white.

I really don't care which order things happened in. The question is which is preferable. First, the cacaphonic pronuncuations of cawfee and doe-un are unambiguously worse on the ear. Second, the need for multiple but similar sounds in words makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand. It's OK for words that are spelled differently to sound the same. That's why there's a name for it. Third, your own link points out that it's spreading through the most educated areas of the country. That implies that the smart people know it's better. I'm sorry you're not part of that camp.

Do you think there are any other vowel sounds in the English language that we should get rid of? Or just this one?

I'm flattered that you're looking for my opinion, but I roll with the millions and millions of people who are correctly making the soft o sound and improving this world one long Don at a time.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Do you think there are any other vowel sounds in the English language that we should get rid of? Or just this one?

I'm flattered that you're looking for my opinion, but I roll with the millions and millions of people who are correctly making the soft o sound and improving this world one long Don at a time.

I'm not "looking for your opinion," I'm trying to figure out the reach of your argument. One of your primary claims is that the two sounds should be pronounced the same because it "makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand." But I'm fairly certain that you would agree that the language would be hopelessly confusing if there was only one vowel sound, for example. I'm just trying to figure out what you believe to be the optimal number of vowel sounds.

 

[bostonfred]

Do you think there are any other vowel sounds in the English language that we should get rid of? Or just this one?

I'm flattered that you're looking for my opinion, but I roll with the millions and millions of people who are correctly making the soft o sound and improving this world one long Don at a time.

I'm not "looking for your opinion," I'm trying to figure out the reach of your argument. One of your primary claims is that the two sounds should be pronounced the same because it "makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand." But I'm fairly certain that you would agree that the language would be hopelessly confusing if there was only one vowel sound, for example. I'm just trying to figure out what you believe to be the optimal number of vowel sounds.

The current number minus the aw sound in cawfee would be a good start. The aw sound in Dawn is secondary to cawfee, which is easily the worst sounding mispronunciation of a word known to modern man.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Do you think there are any other vowel sounds in the English language that we should get rid of? Or just this one?

I'm flattered that you're looking for my opinion, but I roll with the millions and millions of people who are correctly making the soft o sound and improving this world one long Don at a time.

I'm not "looking for your opinion," I'm trying to figure out the reach of your argument. One of your primary claims is that the two sounds should be pronounced the same because it "makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand." But I'm fairly certain that you would agree that the language would be hopelessly confusing if there was only one vowel sound, for example. I'm just trying to figure out what you believe to be the optimal number of vowel sounds.

The current number minus the aw sound in cawfee would be a good start. The aw sound in Dawn is secondary to cawfee, which is easily the worst sounding mispronunciation of a word known to modern man.

If this is your opinion, I'd have to say it comes off as an opinion of convenience, since you personally don't use the sound. It's like this:fred: "Overpopulation is a big problem. We should kill my wife to help solve it."me: "Well, how overpopulated are we? How do we actually know there's an overpopulation problem? How do we know if killing your wife is the best solution to the overpopulation problem?"fred: "Killing my wife would be a good start. We can worry about the rest later."

 

[Yankee23Fan]

The current number minus the aw sound in cawfee would be a good start. The aw sound in Dawn is secondary to cawfee, which is easily the worst sounding mispronunciation of a word known to modern man.

Ah, cawfee. Big fan of cawfee. Real cawfee, not the mocha sugarchino that has become the rage, just good old cawfee with a tiny bit of half and half or milk and no sugar. Great drink, cawfee. It's nice to sit back and get good ole cawfee and see all the sadly all too important only to themselves people order cahfee loudly so that everyone can hear them say cahfee - because everyone should hear them, because they are important because they say cawfee cahfee and that's the proper way to order a drink from a teenager in a paper hat. Society is better for it.

 

[Ilov80s]

So anyone implying that the difference in pronunciation is a new abomination to language is wrong. The merger is actually new and spreading. Fred, I am sorry, but you are a sad man. You are fighting to save our dear language and yet you yourself have unknowingly become destroyed by it. Not only entirely destroyed, but turned inside out to the point that you believe right is wrong and black is white.

I really don't care which order things happened in. The question is which is preferable. First, the cacaphonic pronuncuations of cawfee and doe-un are unambiguously worse on the ear. Second, the need for multiple but similar sounds in words makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand. It's OK for words that are spelled differently to sound the same. That's why there's a name for it. Third, your own link points out that it's spreading through the most educated areas of the country. That implies that the smart people know it's better. I'm sorry you're not part of that camp.

It appears to me that the areas where the merger is most prominent are the west, southwest, and northeast. You see it as the most educated (southwest, really?). I see the influx of immigrants. In the northeast, the Irish (too drunk) and Italians (mouths too full of pasta) bastardized the English language 100 years ago. The rest of America resisted the foul temptation. Now, a second wave is arriving. In the west and southwest, we have illegal immigrants coming over and their lazy use of our language has created a second and more powerful wave. I am afraid our language can not win this 2 front war. You are no better than the dirty peasants that came from the fiefs and taverns of Cork or the wine soaked hill towns of Tuscany. You are no better than the Mexican in the parking lot at Walmart who has taken not only our jobs, but our language. Thanks Fred.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I think the only proper way to let the don dawn thing be put to rest is to refer to the most important action movie of my youth, Die Hard. If it's in Die Hard, it has to be true and right and good.

And so, someone find the video of Hans Gruber demanding the release of the nine brothers of the Asian Dawn Movement. I will go with whatever the great Alan Rickman did there.

 

[Foosball God]

I would also like to hear from someone who pronounces "bag" and "vague" the same way. Every way I try to imagine it sounds ######ed.

Grew up in Wisconsin. I still do this, and people still look at me funny. I now know it's not normal, but I don't intend on changing.

bag and vague aren't pronounced the same?

Yeah, I can't help you here. Ag is a unique sound. Vague is a rare exception to it that rhymes much more closely with cake than with bag. Prague, on the other hand, sounds more like Wade Boggs likes frogs.

What?? Vague doesn't remotely rhyme with cake or bag.

 

[bostonfred]

Do you think there are any other vowel sounds in the English language that we should get rid of? Or just this one?

I'm flattered that you're looking for my opinion, but I roll with the millions and millions of people who are correctly making the soft o sound and improving this world one long Don at a time.

I'm not "looking for your opinion," I'm trying to figure out the reach of your argument. One of your primary claims is that the two sounds should be pronounced the same because it "makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand." But I'm fairly certain that you would agree that the language would be hopelessly confusing if there was only one vowel sound, for example. I'm just trying to figure out what you believe to be the optimal number of vowel sounds.

The current number minus the aw sound in cawfee would be a good start. The aw sound in Dawn is secondary to cawfee, which is easily the worst sounding mispronunciation of a word known to modern man.

If this is your opinion, I'd have to say it comes off as an opinion of convenience, since you personally don't use the sound. It's like this:fred: "Overpopulation is a big problem. We should kill my wife to help solve it."me: "Well, how overpopulated are we? How do we actually know there's an overpopulation problem? How do we know if killing your wife is the best solution to the overpopulation problem?"fred: "Killing my wife would be a good start. We can worry about the rest later."

You haven't met my wife. You have heard the aw sound, though, and you should know that it needs to go.

 

[bostonfred]

bag and vague aren't pronounced the same?

Yeah, I can't help you here. Ag is a unique sound. Vague is a rare exception to it that rhymes much more closely with cake than with bag. Prague, on the other hand, sounds more like Wade Boggs likes frogs.

What?? Vague doesn't remotely rhyme with cake or bag.

I agree that vague doesn't rhyme with cake, but it's because of the g and k sounds at the end, not the vowel sound. The long a in vague is similar to the long a in cake. It is not similar to the ag sound in bag.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

bag and vague aren't pronounced the same?

Yeah, I can't help you here. Ag is a unique sound. Vague is a rare exception to it that rhymes much more closely with cake than with bag. Prague, on the other hand, sounds more like Wade Boggs likes frogs.

What?? Vague doesn't remotely rhyme with cake or bag.

I agree that vague doesn't rhyme with cake, but it's because of the g and k sounds at the end, not the vowel sound. The long a in vague is similar to the long a in cake. It is not similar to the ag sound in bag.

This is correct, so you're only a little nuts.

 

[bostonfred]

bag and vague aren't pronounced the same?

Yeah, I can't help you here. Ag is a unique sound. Vague is a rare exception to it that rhymes much more closely with cake than with bag. Prague, on the other hand, sounds more like Wade Boggs likes frogs.

What?? Vague doesn't remotely rhyme with cake or bag.

I agree that vague doesn't rhyme with cake, but it's because of the g and k sounds at the end, not the vowel sound. The long a in vague is similar to the long a in cake. It is not similar to the ag sound in bag.

This is correct, so you're only a little nuts.

That's my wife's nickname for me. You see now why she has to go.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

That's my wife's nickname for me. You see now why she has to go.

What, vague cake? I guess it's cute. :(

 

[Foosball God]

bag and vague aren't pronounced the same? :(

Yeah, I can't help you here. Ag is a unique sound. Vague is a rare exception to it that rhymes much more closely with cake than with bag. Prague, on the other hand, sounds more like Wade Boggs likes frogs.

What?? Vague doesn't remotely rhyme with cake or bag.

I agree that vague doesn't rhyme with cake, but it's because of the g and k sounds at the end, not the vowel sound. The long a in vague is similar to the long a in cake. It is not similar to the ag sound in bag.

OK, I can buy that but I would have just said it's a hard A instead of confusing people by saying it rhymes more closely with cake.

 

[bostonfred]

bag and vague aren't pronounced the same? :(

Yeah, I can't help you here. Ag is a unique sound. Vague is a rare exception to it that rhymes much more closely with cake than with bag. Prague, on the other hand, sounds more like Wade Boggs likes frogs.

What?? Vague doesn't remotely rhyme with cake or bag.

I agree that vague doesn't rhyme with cake, but it's because of the g and k sounds at the end, not the vowel sound. The long a in vague is similar to the long a in cake. It is not similar to the ag sound in bag.

OK, I can buy that but I would have just said it's a hard A instead of confusing people by saying it rhymes more closely with cake.

I would do that, but I'm working with people who struggle to pronounce soft o's correctly.

 

[GloryDaze]

sausage = sawsage or sahsage?

 

[Addai's Adidas]

13 pages?

 

[bostonfred]

sausage = sawsage or sahsage?

There's a third pronunciation, the Chicagoan sassage, that is as unacceptable as sawwwsage would be.

 

[GloryDaze]

dog = dawg or dahg?

 

[videoguy505]

13 pages?

I set the over under at 116 a few days back, moving along nicely.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

sausage = sawsage

dog = dawg

There's a third pronunciation, the Chicagoan sassage, that is as unacceptable as sawwwsage would be.