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Do people manipulate Zillow prices? (1 Viewer)

chet

Footballguy
My brother listed his house last Thursday for $795K. Zillow listed the value at $820K. On Friday, the Zestimate had dropped to $620K which is lower than it has been in years. They had an open house on Saturday and by Sunday, Zillow's estimate had returned to $820K.

This feels very fishy to me. Has anyone ever heard of this type of manipulation? Do people actually use Zillow estimates to make bids on houses?
 
I've never known Zillow to be remotely accurate in its estimates - only real experience is our house which is consistently over-valued by 25-30% on Zillow - and I am not really sure why. But, it consistently has our value per SqFt at $30-40 higher than any recent sales in the neighborhood.

If anyone ever made me an offer based on the Zillow value - I would bite their hand off to close the deal.
 
I've never known Zillow to be remotely accurate in its estimates - only real experience is our house which is consistently over-valued by 25-30% on Zillow - and I am not really sure why. But, it consistently has our value per SqFt at $30-40 higher than any recent sales in the neighborhood.

If anyone ever made me an offer based on the Zillow value - I would bite their hand off to close the deal.
I’ve had the opposite experience. I’ve bought and sold 2 houses over the past few years and in the area I live the Zillow/Refin prices have very in line with the market.

Wonder if it’s a volume thing. I live in SoCal where the market is very active, which I would imagine would help the predictive nature of the programs be more accurate. Thus being conversely so in a less active market. Just a guess though.
 
I thought I read that Zillow was doing the manipulating to increase like-home values for homes they were trying to sell.
 
My brother listed his house last Thursday for $795K. Zillow listed the value at $820K. On Friday, the Zestimate had dropped to $620K which is lower than it has been in years. They had an open house on Saturday and by Sunday, Zillow's estimate had returned to $820K.

This feels very fishy to me. Has anyone ever heard of this type of manipulation? Do people actually use Zillow estimates to make bids on houses?
It tries sort of to look at nearby comp sales and list prices but does a really crappy job. So if a 3/2 crack house around the corner sold for 550k last week it can blip the houses around until something else sells or goes on the market.
 
I haven't bought or sold a new house in like 8 years, but do people use Zillow to gage prices? I was only told their Zestimates weren't reliable.
 
Never looked at it in much detail. I like to use zillow to get pricing on homes, just browsing. I did not know that the consensus was that their estimates are wrong. Boo
 
I've never known Zillow to be remotely accurate in its estimates - only real experience is our house which is consistently over-valued by 25-30% on Zillow - and I am not really sure why. But, it consistently has our value per SqFt at $30-40 higher than any recent sales in the neighborhood.

If anyone ever made me an offer based on the Zillow value - I would bite their hand off to close the deal.
I’ve had the opposite experience. I’ve bought and sold 2 houses over the past few years and in the area I live the Zillow/Refin prices have very in line with the market.

Wonder if it’s a volume thing. I live in SoCal where the market is very active, which I would imagine would help the predictive nature of the programs be more accurate. Thus being conversely so in a less active market. Just a guess though.
Same. Houses in my area go for pretty much what Zillow says they should go for.
 
Obviously there are instances when it is way out of whack, but I think in general it is fairly accurate. It's not really doing anything different than what a realtor or appraiser is doing. It's just looking at comps in the area
 
I was recently thinking about selling my house so I have a current market analysis from a realtor friend based on recent sales with multiple comps. I just looked and the zillow price is about 15% higher. Zillow and Redfin are apparently the same site now with a different name.
 
One thing I have noticed just by casually looking over the last few years is that there's apparently some way to wipe the recent history of properties that languish. You'll see a property on sale for 6 months or so, and then it will pop back up as an ostensibly new listing without any entry at the bottom as being previously up for sale. Sometimes they'll even be asking more than the price at which it didn't sell. :loco:
 
My brother listed his house last Thursday for $795K. Zillow listed the value at $820K. On Friday, the Zestimate had dropped to $620K which is lower than it has been in years. They had an open house on Saturday and by Sunday, Zillow's estimate had returned to $820K.

This feels very fishy to me. Has anyone ever heard of this type of manipulation? Do people actually use Zillow estimates to make bids on houses?
It tries sort of to look at nearby comp sales and list prices but does a really crappy job. So if a 3/2 crack house around the corner sold for 550k last week it can blip the houses around until something else sells or goes on the market.

To be fair, this is pretty much what appraisers do as well, and they've built an entire mandatory industry around it.
 
I built my house 5 years ago. If someone offered me what Zillow says my house is currently worth, I would accept in an instant despite having a super low interest rate. I would rent a place and wait for a cool down. Owning a home doesn't help with my taxes anyway.
 
I've never known Zillow to be remotely accurate in its estimates - only real experience is our house which is consistently over-valued by 25-30% on Zillow - and I am not really sure why. But, it consistently has our value per SqFt at $30-40 higher than any recent sales in the neighborhood.

If anyone ever made me an offer based on the Zillow value - I would bite their hand off to close the deal.
I’ve had the opposite experience. I’ve bought and sold 2 houses over the past few years and in the area I live the Zillow/Refin prices have very in line with the market.

Wonder if it’s a volume thing. I live in SoCal where the market is very active, which I would imagine would help the predictive nature of the programs be more accurate. Thus being conversely so in a less active market. Just a guess though.
Same. Houses in my area go for pretty much what Zillow says they should go for.
Zillow will automatically adjust their Zestimate based on what a house is listed at and again after it closes at the actual sale price. Most people just don't realize it and surprise, most houses close not far off from where the Zestimate shows!
 
The first thing to know and understand about Zillow is that it is a lead generation platform. The entire concept has always been about getting people to go to the website to see homes for sale or the 'value' of your current home. They built the company by then getting those people to hit one of their buttons that generates a lead and they sold those leads to realtors and lenders. For those in the industry that had an ounce of business sense it has always been clear that the ultimate goal for Zillow would be to use that capital for lead generation to build the company and then start lending and providing the realtor services itself. A number of years ago, I even had an interaction with a Zillow executive in a professional group where I stated this is what they were doing. He swore up and down that I was making it up and lying and didn't know what I was talking about.... a few years later they started Zillow Mortgage and they have been doing more and more on the realtor side as well over the years.

The second thing to know and understand about Zillow is that it sucks. For valuation and listings. It does not have direct access to MLS so it used third party companies to get listing data. That data is often wrong, late or there will be homes still listed as for sale but had been sold months prior. On valuations, I have never understood why their AVM's (automated value matrix) is so consistently bad but it is. If you see a value on Zillow, it is a good bet that the actual home is worth anything but what it says with an actual appraisal or even a CMA (comparative market analysis which is what a realtor can do). I have seen it countless times. Literally the only data that I have not really seen it consistently off on is the tax history which likely because it is easily accessed.

If you are buying or selling a home, don't even look at Zillow.... actually, if you are selling then you do, go in and claim your home and then update/correct all the information on your home because people will still go there and look at your home there. However, a decent realtor will be able to explain that the "Zestimate" is poo and to be ignored. After all, the realtor should have an idea of the value and in the end, that is what an appraisal contingency is for.
 
My brother listed his house last Thursday for $795K. Zillow listed the value at $820K. On Friday, the Zestimate had dropped to $620K which is lower than it has been in years. They had an open house on Saturday and by Sunday, Zillow's estimate had returned to $820K.

This feels very fishy to me. Has anyone ever heard of this type of manipulation? Do people actually use Zillow estimates to make bids on houses?
It tries sort of to look at nearby comp sales and list prices but does a really crappy job. So if a 3/2 crack house around the corner sold for 550k last week it can blip the houses around until something else sells or goes on the market.

To be fair, this is pretty much what appraisers do as well, and they've built an entire mandatory industry around it.
Yes, comparable homes sold are the primary way to generate what a market says the value of a home is. This is true of an AVM, CMA and actual appraisals. Where you start to get a wide variance of using that data and then making proper adjustments for the property is where you get wide differences of opinion of value. An AVM (which is what Zillow is) takes public data for properties and comps and then using their algorithm, spits out a number. Much of the reason for Zillow and other AVM's being off is based on the information that is being put in being incorrect or incomplete. AVM's are very limited in making actual adjustments from the comp to subject property. CMA's do a much better job of this but an appraisal is the best. An appraiser is using the best comps (usually) which is determined by three things 1) The most recent property sold 2) The nearest property sold 3) The most like property as the subject property. Using those comps, they then make adjustments for the value.... the comp had a three car garage and the subject property has a two car garage, so then there is a valuation difference in that. There is a certain amount of subjectiveness in an appraisal because of those adjustments but there is a general acceptance of what is or is not within that subject area and it can be challenged if outside of those norms. I have had more than a few appraisals changed after finding an error or better comp and even arguing an adjustment that was done was outside of norms or the market.

An appraisal is simply a way to express what the market says the house value is though a common and accepted process. This is used for lenders to make decisions on lending in a fair and standardized ways. But when it all comes down to it.... a property is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. That is why when there was a feeding frenzy on properties in some markets, houses were being sold way over asking/appraisals. If the appraisal says it is worth $400K but you pay $450K then that house is worth $450K to you, the market says you might be wrong but then your home will be used as a comp for other properties (though an adjustment can be made if the comp is a true outlier).
 
It seems Zillow just takes the basic $/sqft calculation for your zip code and bases everything off that. I've seen like a gorgeous house with a pool and upgrades listed and then a teardown in need of major reno and code violations right next to it valued at about the same because it's not looking any deeper than the listed square feet.
 
The first thing to know and understand about Zillow is that it is a lead generation platform. The entire concept has always been about getting people to go to the website to see homes for sale or the 'value' of your current home. They built the company by then getting those people to hit one of their buttons that generates a lead and they sold those leads to realtors and lenders. For those in the industry that had an ounce of business sense it has always been clear that the ultimate goal for Zillow would be to use that capital for lead generation to build the company and then start lending and providing the realtor services itself. A number of years ago, I even had an interaction with a Zillow executive in a professional group where I stated this is what they were doing. He swore up and down that I was making it up and lying and didn't know what I was talking about.... a few years later they started Zillow Mortgage and they have been doing more and more on the realtor side as well over the years.

The second thing to know and understand about Zillow is that it sucks. For valuation and listings. It does not have direct access to MLS so it used third party companies to get listing data. That data is often wrong, late or there will be homes still listed as for sale but had been sold months prior. On valuations, I have never understood why their AVM's (automated value matrix) is so consistently bad but it is. If you see a value on Zillow, it is a good bet that the actual home is worth anything but what it says with an actual appraisal or even a CMA (comparative market analysis which is what a realtor can do). I have seen it countless times. Literally the only data that I have not really seen it consistently off on is the tax history which likely because it is easily accessed.

If you are buying or selling a home, don't even look at Zillow.... actually, if you are selling then you do, go in and claim your home and then update/correct all the information on your home because people will still go there and look at your home there. However, a decent realtor will be able to explain that the "Zestimate" is poo and to be ignored. After all, the realtor should have an idea of the value and in the end, that is what an appraisal contingency is for.
100% accurate. It is a lead generation platform that costs quite a lot for Realtors. I know some that pay $15K/month for Zillow leads, most of which are junk especially for the listing and rentals side. It's a way to get buyers if you are just starting your realtor career and can afford the high cost and the low hit rate of like 2-5%. Fact is quality sellers and buyers don't click on the "contact a Zillow agent". Everyone knows 5+ Realtors. They just call the ones they know or one that has had signs up in their neighborhood.

Essentially they put agents that pay for their service (Zillow Premier agents) next to the data provided by other Realtors (like if I have 3 listings, my name will appear next to those but at the very bottom in non bold font, and they make other agents (those that pay for Zillow Premier) appear to be the agent and get the leads from the data on our listings. We used to pay them $s for only our name to appear next to our listings, but they removed that option several years ago to force agents to pay for the far more expensive Zillow Premier.

They have tried to manipulate this into other businesses (lending, flipping, closing, Zillow brokered agents, etc) but almost all have failed. I'm actually surprised they couldn't get the secondary businesses to succeed. It should not have been that hard. They could have easily bought brokerages and ancillary businesses to roll under their umbrella. Part of it is they have terrible support for the agents that pay for Premier. And that poor customer service was worse in the ancillary business attempts.

For valuations ... wrong data, poor choices of comps, and Zillow obviously having no information on the inside condition of a home such as improvements and remodeling reduces the accuracy of the Zestimate. We can update the info on behalf of our clients once we get a listing to make it higher. But once a house is listed the valuation goes away and it just posts the list price (though you can look at the price chart and still see what it was prior to listing). So zestimate/redfin/realtor.com/etc type estimate is a good starting point in a uniform community, but it's not very accurate if the homes in the vicinity aren't essentially cookie cutter houses.

Can't argue their business model. They've essentially taken data from other sources and turned it into an online advertising/lead generation platform. But their inability to do anything with attempted ancillary businesses like Zillow Offers or their expensive purchases of Postlets and Trulia is odd and mostly due to poor executive management (as was the layoffs of 25% of their workforce).
 
The first thing to know and understand about Zillow is that it is a lead generation platform. The entire concept has always been about getting people to go to the website to see homes for sale or the 'value' of your current home. They built the company by then getting those people to hit one of their buttons that generates a lead and they sold those leads to realtors and lenders. For those in the industry that had an ounce of business sense it has always been clear that the ultimate goal for Zillow would be to use that capital for lead generation to build the company and then start lending and providing the realtor services itself. A number of years ago, I even had an interaction with a Zillow executive in a professional group where I stated this is what they were doing. He swore up and down that I was making it up and lying and didn't know what I was talking about.... a few years later they started Zillow Mortgage and they have been doing more and more on the realtor side as well over the years.

The second thing to know and understand about Zillow is that it sucks. For valuation and listings. It does not have direct access to MLS so it used third party companies to get listing data. That data is often wrong, late or there will be homes still listed as for sale but had been sold months prior. On valuations, I have never understood why their AVM's (automated value matrix) is so consistently bad but it is. If you see a value on Zillow, it is a good bet that the actual home is worth anything but what it says with an actual appraisal or even a CMA (comparative market analysis which is what a realtor can do). I have seen it countless times. Literally the only data that I have not really seen it consistently off on is the tax history which likely because it is easily accessed.

If you are buying or selling a home, don't even look at Zillow.... actually, if you are selling then you do, go in and claim your home and then update/correct all the information on your home because people will still go there and look at your home there. However, a decent realtor will be able to explain that the "Zestimate" is poo and to be ignored. After all, the realtor should have an idea of the value and in the end, that is what an appraisal contingency is for.
100% accurate. It is a lead generation platform that costs quite a lot for Realtors. I know some that pay $15K/month for Zillow leads, most of which are junk especially for the listing and rentals side. It's a way to get buyers if you are just starting your realtor career and can afford the high cost and the low hit rate of like 2-5%. Fact is quality sellers and buyers don't click on the "contact a Zillow agent". Everyone knows 5+ Realtors. They just call the ones they know or one that has had signs up in their neighborhood.

Essentially they put agents that pay for their service (Zillow Premier agents) next to the data provided by other Realtors (like if I have 3 listings, my name will appear next to those but at the very bottom in non bold font, and they make other agents (those that pay for Zillow Premier) appear to be the agent and get the leads from the data on our listings. We used to pay them $s for only our name to appear next to our listings, but they removed that option several years ago to force agents to pay for the far more expensive Zillow Premier.

They have tried to manipulate this into other businesses (lending, flipping, closing, Zillow brokered agents, etc) but almost all have failed. I'm actually surprised they couldn't get the secondary businesses to succeed. It should not have been that hard. They could have easily bought brokerages and ancillary businesses to roll under their umbrella. Part of it is they have terrible support for the agents that pay for Premier. And that poor customer service was worse in the ancillary business attempts.

For valuations ... wrong data, poor choices of comps, and Zillow obviously having no information on the inside condition of a home such as improvements and remodeling reduces the accuracy of the Zestimate. We can update the info on behalf of our clients once we get a listing to make it higher. But once a house is listed the valuation goes away and it just posts the list price (though you can look at the price chart and still see what it was prior to listing). So zestimate/redfin/realtor.com/etc type estimate is a good starting point in a uniform community, but it's not very accurate if the homes in the vicinity aren't essentially cookie cutter houses.

Can't argue their business model. They've essentially taken data from other sources and turned it into an online advertising/lead generation platform. But their inability to do anything with attempted ancillary businesses like Zillow Offers or their expensive purchases of Postlets and Trulia is odd and mostly due to poor executive management (as was the layoffs of 25% of their workforce).
For years and years I have had realtors ask me to sponsor their Zillow leads purchases. I always told them that I absolutely would not as every dollar they get is a dollar that they are going to spend to build up and try to put realtors, lenders, etc out of business. It was painfully evident that that was the goal. I remember so many conversations with realtors and other lenders that either didn't see it (actively arguing that I was wrong because Zillow said...) or just didn't care.

As the meme says "The A is Zillow stands for accuracy"
 

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