Do you value American lives over the lives of others? (2 Viewers)

[tonydead]

I cant truly believe we have to define an enemy.  What a weird thing to ask.

It was asked only to be argumentative.  That's all.  That's why I didn't answer.  No desire to do that silly debate,

  Seems obvious.  Neither responded so they must have been fishing for something else.

 

[supermike80]

Though in the spirit of the original question.   We don't know who would be a member of a terrorist organization.  So yeah…is someone from Pakistan or Afghanistan less valuable of a life because of their country’s policy on terrorism?  Are they an enemy?  

Thats stupid.  No.

Are you trying to rope me into the "all muslims are bad" thing.   Don't.

 

[tonydead]

Though in the spirit of the original question.   We don't know who would be a member of a terrorist organization.  So yeah…is someone from Pakistan or Afghanistan less valuable of a life because of their country’s policy on terrorism?  Are they an enemy?  

Wat the el?  We know exactly who are members of terrorist organizations. 

They go out of their way to let us know.

 

[tonydead]

I mean one drone strike on that photo makes up for the 5,000 prisoners Trump let go.

 

[sho nuff]

Thats stupid.  No.

Are you trying to rope me into the "all muslims are bad" thing.   Don't.

No...Im trying to understand why instead of just answering the few questions...this has turned into a back and forth for multiple posts...when simply answering the first time would have avoided things.

The point is...enemies can't be so easily defined when choosing between two people.  I don't think anyone is saying..."do you value an American life over a terrorist's life"?

But whatever...have fun.

 

[supermike80]

No...Im trying to understand why instead of just answering the few questions...this has turned into a back and forth for multiple posts...when simply answering the first time would have avoided things.

The point is...enemies can't be so easily defined when choosing between two people.  I don't think anyone is saying..."do you value an American life over a terrorist's life"?

But whatever...have fun.

Because you guys asked only to start a fight.   That is simply the only reason.

Just your silly question about whether I would call every single living Pakistani an enemy is an attempt to start something.  I knew it, so I refused to answer it.

At least you were willing to ask your silly question instead of playing games.  I will give you credit there.

 

[tonydead]

No...Im trying to understand why instead of just answering the few questions...this has turned into a back and forth for multiple posts...when simply answering the first time would have avoided things.

The point is...enemies can't be so easily defined when choosing between two people.  I don't think anyone is saying..."do you value an American life over a terrorist's life"?

But whatever...have fun.

Both of those things have been explained to you already.   

 

[sho nuff]

Seems only one is wanting to play silly games and fight...it wasn't me, nor do I believe that was the point of the others who asked.

Sorry I even tried getting an understanding where someone was coming from.  My bad.

 

[supermike80]

Seems only one is wanting to play silly games and fight...it wasn't me, nor do I believe that was the point of the others who asked.

Sorry I even tried getting an understanding where someone was coming from.  My bad.

All I said is I would choose an american over an enemy.  And I have to define an enemy?  That's nothing more that trying to stir something up.

 

[AAABatteries]

the way of life, yes. the lives? no

I think this is an interesting way of looking at it and would agree, although I will nitpick and say that there's some aspects of our way of life that I don't like but in general I agree with this.

 

[AAABatteries]

Let's start with all terrorist organizations and countries that harbor them.  Next, let's move on to all fentanyl and/or drug cartel organizations and countries that harbor them.  Then lets do the same for human trafficking.   

That's my top 3.

Don't forget Liverpool fans.  Got to work them in to the top 3.

 

[AAABatteries]

As the OP I declare "the enemy" as perfectly fine* and I agree with valuing their lives less - I think most of us agree with that but are split on my OP.

*I'm not in charge so feel free to ignore, just seems like a dumb hijack.

 

[whoknew]

Let's start with all terrorist organizations and countries that harbor them.  Next, let's move on to all fentanyl and/or drug cartel organizations and countries that harbor them.  Then lets do the same for human trafficking.   

That's my top 3.

What do you mean when you say, the "countries that harbor them"?

 

[wikkidpissah]

All I said is I would choose an american over an enemy.  And I have to define an enemy?  That's nothing more that trying to stir something up.

i reckon to have far more enemies in America than i do in just about any other country. de-factor religious fanaticism and that ratio goes even higher. Americans have it all and are regurgitating the Dream like rabid polecats. since this country has not only been the leading edge of technology but what few paths to progress & prosperity have been forged in the history of civilization, if you're a jackhole here, you're a far greater enemy to humanity, and likewise me, than most Chileans, Cambodians or Palestinians

 

[whoknew]

All I said is I would choose an american over an enemy.  And I have to define an enemy?  That's nothing more that trying to stir something up.

1) You act like the enemy is so clear. What about Russia? Are they our enemy? China? Iraq? Ukraine?

2) And if the answer is yes to any of those, then who in those? You said you don't value the lives of our enemy. Thus, you are talking about the lives of individual people. Well who are those people? Just the president/prime minister? Everyone in the government? The citizens?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. And only internationally. What about domestic enemies?

Y'all are acting like this is so cut and dry. If you think that's true, you haven't put much, if any, thought into it.

 

[supermike80]

1) You act like the enemy is so clear. What about Russia? Are they our enemy? China? Iraq? Ukraine?

2) And if the answer is yes to any of those, then who in those? You said you don't value the lives of our enemy. Thus, you are talking about the lives of individual people. Well who are those people? Just the president/prime minister? Everyone in the government? The citizens?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. And only internationally. What about domestic enemies?

Y'all are acting like this is so cut and dry. If you think that's true, you haven't put much, if any, thought into it.

This lunacy in this post is almost beyond words.   My enemy is my enemy.  I have to explain who my enemy is to you?   

This board is bizarro world today man.   Just off the charts

 

[The Commish]

If two people were falling off a cliff and you could only save one.

They are identically the same, except one person abuses their child.

You think it would be shortsighted to save the person that doesnt abuse their child?

Can you explain to me how you think this is relevant to the comments you quoted?  This seems like a different subject.  I'll forego the multiple problems with the hypo and answer as best I can.  In this case, I'm going with the person that I have the best chance of saving.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

China?

No! - Joe Biden

 

[AAABatteries]

1) You act like the enemy is so clear. What about Russia? Are they our enemy? China? Iraq? Ukraine?

2) And if the answer is yes to any of those, then who in those? You said you don't value the lives of our enemy. Thus, you are talking about the lives of individual people. Well who are those people? Just the president/prime minister? Everyone in the government? The citizens?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. And only internationally. What about domestic enemies?

Y'all are acting like this is so cut and dry. If you think that's true, you haven't put much, if any, thought into it.

I would agree with you if we were saying we are about to go kill our enemies, we need to understand EXACTLY who they are.  But this is just a hypothetical situation so I think it's fine to just say you wouldn't value your enemy's life as high as others.  It's like saying "bad guys" - it's just an abstracted idea.  If we need to agree on it later we can but for now it's ok to have it as a placeholder if we all agree that there would be some people that fall in to that bucket.  Just my 2 cents.

 

[Zow]

I cant truly believe we have to define an enemy.  What a weird thing to ask.

It was asked only to be argumentative.  That's all.  That's why I didn't answer.  No desire to do that silly debate,

I didn't ask it, but I don't think it was. Defining an "enemy" isn't easy. For example, if we go to war with Russia, does that mean all Russians are enemies and their lives are inherently less valuable than any American's? 

I don't think so. 

 

[Zow]

This lunacy in this post is almost beyond words.   My enemy is my enemy.  I have to explain who my enemy is to you?   

This board is bizarro world today man.   Just off the charts

Lunacy? Wow. I think he raises very valid and realistic questions/points to consider in this mental exercise.

 

[tonydead]

1) You act like the enemy is so clear. What about Russia? Are they our enemy? China? Iraq? Ukraine?

2) And if the answer is yes to any of those, then who in those? You said you don't value the lives of our enemy. Thus, you are talking about the lives of individual people. Well who are those people? Just the president/prime minister? Everyone in the government? The citizens?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. And only internationally. What about domestic enemies?

Y'all are acting like this is so cut and dry. If you think that's true, you haven't put much, if any, thought into it.

      Tip of the iceberg of enemies.  

 

[beer 30]

All things being equal, I don’t value American lives over others, but I do think our government should value American lives first. 

This

I went with not sure.

If I had two doors that each had a person behind them but could only save one, and nationality was the only information I'm given, I'd save the American.

Same scenario but this time I'm given a list of relevant information about each person. It's not a lock I'm picking the American.  It's a factor weighted on the scale, but I'm not sure where it ranks.

...and also this

 

[tonydead]

What do you mean when you say, the "countries that harbor them"?

Harbor means to shelter or hide (criminals or wanted persons).  

 

[supermike80]

I didn't ask it, but I don't think it was. Defining an "enemy" isn't easy. For example, if we go to war with Russia, does that mean all Russians are enemies and their lives are inherently less valuable than any American's? 

I don't think so. 

Again, don't try to rope me into the "all muslims are bad" argument. It's super weak and quite frankly a waste of time,

Of course that's not true.   To suggest it is ridiculous.  But my enemies are my enemies. No one on this board has any right to challenge them.

 

[GoBirds]

Timely poll from the Biden guys.....do I value American lives more than Taliban lives? The answer is absolutely. 

 

[Uwe Blab]

This is a really interesting philosophical question.  I had a lot of trouble answering it.  Interested to add one more layer to the folks who said they value an American life over a non-American one:  American is an adult.  Non-American is a child.

 

[crackattack]

I value American lives more for a couple reasons. 1. Selfishness. 2. Proximity.

I need Americans to run/work at hospitals, police, grocery stores etc etc. I need/want Americans to spend money in our economy. I think you get my point. The same as I would expect a Frenchman to value French lives more then Venezuelans. 

 

[tonydead]

I value American lives more for a couple reasons. 1. Selfishness. 2. Proximity.

I need Americans to run/work at hospitals, police, grocery stores etc etc. I need/want Americans to spend money in our economy. I think you get my point. The same as I would expect a Frenchman to value French lives more then Venezuelans. 

Its tribalism and perfectly normal. You defend family first, then your tribe.  It's been that way for the entirety of human existence.  Its ultimately in your best interest.  

 

[Zow]

Again, don't try to rope me into the "all muslims are bad" argument. It's super weak and quite frankly a waste of time,

Of course that's not true.   To suggest it is ridiculous.  But my enemies are my enemies. No one on this board has any right to challenge them.

Nobody is challenging them. You’re merely being asked to define/identify them. 

 

[supermike80]

Nobody is challenging them. You’re merely being asked to define/identify them. 

Again..this was a very general question.  I still wanna know why anyone is interested in who my enemies are?  Why does it matter?

Do I need to define every single one of my enemies for you?  One or two? Maybe a few?  Or do I need to provide a complete list so you can all peruse it and determine if in fact, that entity is truly my enemy?    

Is it NOT OK to say I prefer American lives over my enemies lives?  This is by far the most bizarre thing you guys have ever ever tried to do on this board.  And the list is long...but this one is really something.

 

[tonydead]

Nobody is challenging them. You’re merely being asked to define/identify them. 

Why?

The answer to the question doesn't require it.  Of course people don't value enemies lives more than their fellow citizens.  For some strange reason you're looking for names and addresses?

 

[supermike80]

Why?

The answer to the question doesn't require it.  Of course people don't value enemies lives more than their fellow citizens.  For some strange reason you're looking for names and addresses?

It is just the weirdest thing. 

 

[kface]

The honest answer is yes.  I want it to be no but the answer is yes.  

 

[the moops]

I went with not sure.

If I had two doors that each had a person behind them but could only save one, and nationality was the only information I'm given, I'd save the American.

Same scenario but this time I'm given a list of relevant information about each person. It's not a lock I'm picking the American.  It's a factor weighted on the scale, but I'm not sure where it ranks.

I think I agree with this. We all have a circle of family and friends that we value over other lives. Then the circle gets bigger, but the thought of valuing them over others, become less certain. And as that circle grows even bigger, it is difficult for me to say that person X who lives in Dallas or wherever, and someone who I have no connection with, has any more value than a random other person from a different country (assuming they aren't terrorists or rapists or any number of pother disqualifying factors)

 

[BladeRunner]

In a vaccum and only knowing if they are American citizens - yes. Absolutely.

If, for example, the American was John Wayne Gacy, then no.  No way.

 

[rcam]

Broad brush - I value American lives over others. I live here. Hell, if being honest, by my actions I probably value my pets' lives over others. I've spent a lot more on my pets than I do on preventing genocides, helping with natural disasters, or helping with hunger or the homeless. Of course, that may be because my dogs are ####### money pits.

 

[sho nuff]

Value?  No.  I would not say I would value American life more than another nationality.

All things being equal about a person...I value all life.  Nationality IMO does not make someone more valuable than another person.

 

[tonydead]

Value?  No.  I would not say I would value American life more than another nationality.

All things being equal about a person...I value all life.  Nationality IMO does not make someone more valuable than another person.

Darwin disagrees.  

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Don't know if I thought about it before but I voted yes.  Mainly because whether or not I truly do, my actions - or better, my reactions to events in the world - would back up a yes more than a no.

 

[the moops]

Darwin disagrees.  

Darwin speaks about nationality?

 

[DropKick]

No...Im trying to understand why instead of just answering the few questions...this has turned into a back and forth for multiple posts...when simply answering the first time would have avoided things.

The point is...enemies can't be so easily defined when choosing between two people.  I don't think anyone is saying..."do you value an American life over a terrorist's life"?

But whatever...have fun.

Maybe he felt it a unnecessary question...

 

[AAABatteries]

Don't know if I thought about it before but I voted yes.  Mainly because whether or not I truly do, my actions - or better, my reactions to events in the world - would back up a yes more than a no.

Interesting - can you give examples of your actions or reactions?  Do you mean like how you react or feel when an American is killed overseas vs. someone from another place?

It’ a weird discussion because as I said, I love the US - I’m a big “U.S.A.!!!” guy during the Olympics and things like the World Cup (as an aside the US men’s soccer team starts their World Cup qualifying tomorrow night!).  I’d never consider moving anywhere else and think American ideals are some of if not the best around.  I think our country is mostly good and while we’ve done some dumb things we generally are a good citizen and example for others.

But I still don’t value an American life over others - I think it has to do with my church upbringing.  Mine was very focused on God loves us all and died for all of us.  Even if I’m not very religious any more that is still ingrained in my DNA.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Interesting - can you give examples of your actions or reactions?  Do you mean like how you react or feel when an American is killed overseas vs. someone from another place?

It’ a weird discussion because as I said, I love the US - I’m a big “U.S.A.!!!” guy during the Olympics and things like the World Cup (as an aside the US men’s soccer team starts their World Cup qualifying tomorrow night!).  I’d never consider moving anywhere else and think American ideals are some of if not the best around.  I think our country is mostly good and while we’ve done some dumb things we generally are a good citizen and example for others.

But I still don’t value an American life over others - I think it has to do with my church upbringing.  Mine was very focused on God loves us all and died for all of us.  Even if I’m not very religious any more that is still ingrained in my DNA.

Sort of.

I'm kinda thinking and writing.

What Russia did to Ukraine was bad. But I haven't thought about it since at least covid began. But if Canada did something similar to Washington State I would still be a news junkie on it voting for people to do something about it.

I'm sure there are natural disasters all over the world that i could donate 10 bucks to by text. I've only done it for things here. 

I'm growing increasingly tired of American soldiers dying for other people in the world because they are "my" soldiers.

Things like that. Like I said haven't thought about it in these terms. My faith is telling me I being an ***hole though, so there's that too.

 

[Nugget]

God Bless America … And no one else. 

 

[tonydead]

Darwin speaks about nationality?

Our Nation is our tribe on the world stage. It's in your best interest, whether you realize it or not, for your tribe to succeed. Several examples of that already posted in this very thread.  It's the reason why Yes is winning the poll. It's in our genes.  

The poll would be much higher if religious thinking wouldnt have mucked it up like it almost did in Yankee's previous post. 

 

[The Future Champs]

All things being equal, except nationality, of course I value American lives over non Americans.   

 

[AAABatteries]

Ok, I’ve waited long enough to add the wrinkle I wanted to include in the OP but didn’t.

Do you value the lives of the people who live in your state more than the lives of people who live in other states?

Is your answer to the OP and this question the same or different?  If different, why?

 

[DropKick]

Ok, I’ve waited long enough to add the wrinkle I wanted to include in the OP but didn’t.

Do you value the lives of the people who live in your state more than the lives of people who live in other states?

Is your answer to the OP and this question the same or different?  If different, why?

I value everyone's life... except left wing liberals.

With the exception of "Nugget" of course... thought that went without saying...

 

[-fish-]

Ok, I’ve waited long enough to add the wrinkle I wanted to include in the OP but didn’t.

Do you value the lives of the people who live in your state more than the lives of people who live in other states?

Is your answer to the OP and this question the same or different?  If different, why?

Everyone but Florida.