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Doctor violently dragged from full United flight (1 Viewer)

Zow said:
Holy crap.  Was this plane just full of doctors having to get home for surgeries? Money-making me still would have strongly considered it if I was flying alone. 
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You know they don't offer cash, right?  It's an air travel voucher.  Not quite the same.

 
3C's said:
:lol:

This will stop all of a dozen people from flying United, if that. More likely 2.

As for if they have a right to do what they did, this person think they had the right (but created a PR nightmare, as we've all said): The only defense for United’s actions so far is again its Contract of Carriage. Point 25 describes in detail how much the airline is willing to pay to entice passengers off of an oversold flight, but it also reserves the right to deny boarding to passengers trying to get on to an oversold flight. https://www.complianceweek.com/blogs/coffin-on-compliance/sometimes-the-rules-will-not-save-you#.WOvixGd0o4s
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I thought United denied that the flight was oversold? HMMMMM

 
Gr00vus said:
I think the notion is there were multiple alternatives other than resulting to use of force to resolve this situation that weren't attempted first.
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Such as?

I've asked several times but haven't gotten a good answer. Like I said just a bit earlier, knowing now what we know, you'd probably take the "leave him on the plane and cancel tomorrow's flight" option. Can't view this in hindsight though. You've already gotten two (maybe 3) people removed. Do you give in to this guy and call 2 more names? You're the crew and you have to get 4 people off the plane and get in flight. Do you sit there and beg the guy for 10 more minutes or call security to escort him out, or what?

 
3C's said:
Such as?

I've asked several times but haven't gotten a good answer. Like I said just a bit earlier, knowing now what we know, you'd probably take the "leave him on the plane and cancel tomorrow's flight" option. Can't view this in hindsight though. You've already gotten two (maybe 3) people removed. Do you give in to this guy and call 2 more names? You're the crew and you have to get 4 people off the plane and get in flight. Do you sit there and beg the guy for 10 more minutes or call security to escort him out, or what?
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Oh, I don't know, maybe see if you can get another crew over to Kentucky in the next 10 hours or so? Up the ante on the offer and see if someone else steps up? Offer to get someone an earlier flight the next day on another airline? Buy the guy a limo ride to his destination? Seems like there are lots of possibilities before you get to the call in the cops and slam the old crazy guy's head into the armrest stage of negotiations.

 
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Zow said:
I fly enough that it'd be worth similar to cash for me. 
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Most people either don't fly that often or have their travel costs covered by their employer and get tons of miles already if they travel frequently for work. I doesn't surprise me at all that they couldn't find enough takers.  It's a crap system, always has been.  Basically if there's not enough childless people with flexible work schedules who loved to travel for fun, you're screwed.

 
FWIW, I just talked to a close cop-buddy of mine who said that protocol is to always approach old-Asian men like they could be retired ninjas. :shrug:

 
They should remove the cap and keep offering more until someone jumps on it.

Realistically it will rarely go over $800, maybe like .001% of time they would have to go up to $1,500.

There is no way a group of random people are going to all make an impromptu agreement to hold out for a huge amount.  I guess the airlines could put the cap at 5k to be safe but it would never come down to that.

Putting themselves in a position to have to forcefully eject a customer unwillingly is just stupid.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Most people either don't fly that often or have their travel costs covered by their employer and get tons of miles already if they travel frequently for work. I doesn't surprise me at all that they couldn't find enough takers.  It's a crap system, always has been.  Basically if there's not enough childless people with flexible work schedules who loved to travel for fun, you're screwed.
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True.  I guess at some point the airline stupidly thought it would cost-prohibitive to go above a certain point.  Obviously they were wrong. 

 
3C's said:
Such as?

I've asked several times but haven't gotten a good answer. Like I said just a bit earlier, knowing now what we know, you'd probably take the "leave him on the plane and cancel tomorrow's flight" option. Can't view this in hindsight though. You've already gotten two (maybe 3) people removed. Do you give in to this guy and call 2 more names? You're the crew and you have to get 4 people off the plane and get in flight. Do you sit there and beg the guy for 10 more minutes or call security to escort him out, or what?
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I know one thing, the option should never be:  bloody a paying customer by knocking him out cold and dragging his limp body for all other paying customers to see by a couple hired goons.  

 
Gr00vus said:
Oh, I don't know, maybe see if you can get another crew over to Kentucky in the next 10 hours or so? Up the ante on the offer and see if someone else steps up? Offer to get someone an earlier flight the next day on another airline? Buy the guy a limo ride to his destination? Seems like there are lots of possibilities before you get to the call in the cops and slam the old crazy guy's head into the armrest stage of negotiations.
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Ok, so nothing new.

 
Zow said:
You asked why I think I could know that.  Were you joking?
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No, not joking. Seems like slamming an old man's head into an arm rest to get him off a plane that he paid to be on is approaching the necessary force zone to me. Educate us.

 
Gustavo Fring said:
I know one thing, the option should never be:  bloody a paying customer by knocking him out cold and dragging his limp body for all other paying customers to see by a couple hired goons.  
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Presumably, they called the police and made a trespass report.  Police responded, presumably asked him to leave, he passively resisted, and the police did what they do.  The airplane handled this absolutely terribly, but, to their (minor) defense, what they directly did was call the police. 

 
Gr00vus said:
No, not joking. Seems like slamming an old man's head into an arm rest to get him off a plane that he paid to be on is approaching the necessary force zone to me. Educate us.
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You think this is what that officer intended to do? 

 
Gustavo Fring said:
I know one thing, the option should never be:  bloody a paying customer by knocking him out cold and dragging his limp body for all other paying customers to see by a couple hired goons.  
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I keep seeing this.  The "goons" were police officers hired by the City of Chicago.

 
Statorama said:
Our United flight out of Maui was cancelled due to mechanical failure.  It was the last flight of the night so there were no other flights to get us out.  I spoke with a United customer service rep that helped us avoid the line for a hotel voucher, got us set up on an early flight the following day, and set us up with $500 in future flight vouchers (that I received within 48 hours) for our trouble.  I was actually quite impressed with their level of service and commitment to providing me with a positive customer experience.
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And I'm not sure maybe they're generally good in customer service.  For me it was terrible service.  I never got any sort of voucher for future flights.  I had to fight to get an early flight the next day because I didn't want to miss my brother's wedding rehearsal dinner.  They wanted me to take their afternoon flight.  And it took about two hours of standing in lines and talking to different people to get on the early flight (the issue being that it was one of their partner airlines and even though they screwed up to cause me to miss my flight they didn't want to go out of their way to keep the problem from getting worse and at least let me go early the next day).  For that reason I will never fly with them again.  I'm just one person so obviously it doesn't impact their bottom line.  But I have paid extra money to fly with a different airline many times.  I also will not fly any of their partner airlines.  That was when I was in my mid 20s so if I make it to my 70s I will have a 50+ year boycott going against them.  And it was not a bad weather day.  I could forgive them if we're talking snow or ice or something.

 
Gustavo Fring said:
It obviously wasn't United directly, but if you think they are not at all at fault, you're crazier than that asian guy after getting his bell rung.  
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And if you think the Asian guy was not at all at fault you're crazier than some kook chanting "I wanna go home!"

 
3C's said:
And if you think the Asian guy was not at all at fault you're crazier than some kook chanting "I wanna go home!"
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He may have been at fault to some degree, but that doesn't warrant the treatment he got.  If you can't see that, the rock you have been living under, has impaired your vision.  

 
3C's said:
Someone mentioned earlier about 4x ticket cost being the "rule" and that his ticket was likely in the $200 range. :shrug:
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4x is just the rule for involuntary bumping.  I haven't seen anything that says they are limited to four times ticket cost for voluntary bumping.

 
Gustavo Fring said:
He may have been at fault to some degree, but that doesn't warrant the treatment he got.  If you can't see that, the rock you have been living under, has impaired your vision.  
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No one believes he "deserved" to be dropped on his head. When you resist though sometimes bad things happen.

 
Zow said:
Because that factors into the reasonable/necessary analysis. 
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O.k., bear with me as I'm trying to understand this. Is the idea that (for instance), as long as the security guy (policeman, air marshall, whatever) only intended to put handcuffs on or otherwise restrain the passenger in the standard non-injurious manner (whatever that is), then it's reasonable/necessary that in the act of doing that he somehow caused the passenger's head to hit the arm rest?

 
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over/under until United settles with the guy and has him sign an NDA?

Even if they have a case based on some agreement nobody reads they are gonna try to bury this asap.

 
3C's said:
No one believes he "deserved" to be dropped on his head. When you resist though sometimes bad things happen.
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I would be able to understand the use of force if this guy was an unruly passenger who was becoming a threat to other passengers and/or flight crew, but this was not this type of situation at all.  

 
it is funny to me there are some people that just enjoy life and enjoy going to work like i saw a good one about a cop at disney who has an autograph book and has girls going to the princess dinner autograph it to make them feel like a real princess that brohan is a good dude just enjoying his job and life and makin other people happy enough said  but then you get some dope like the quote service agent endquote here who rather than going a little extra and finding a way to make this work took the crap easy way out and ordered in the hit squad hey man i have a pretty good time doin what i do and it aint for a boatload of moolah and i think to myself hey swcer if you ever get to the point that you are trying to argue in support of some jagbag at a big fu corporation who wont go out of there way for another brohan then its time to hang em up and im seeing a lot of that in here brohans take that to the bank 

 
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