Does Ronnie Brown's value go up with Trent Green Trade? (1 Viewer)

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I think it almost has to go up. I am not a big Trent Green fan, but his value has to go up when you compare him to the QB play from a year ago.

Combine that with the new HC and Ginn, Brown's value has to be increasing.

Or am I wrong here?

 

[renesauz]

I'll disagree somewhat. Brown's value last year was limited more by his own injuries and inconcistancy, as well as that of his line, then by his QB.

I like Ronnie Brown's upside this year, but not because of his QB.

 

[Banger]

I think it almost has to go up. I am not a big Trent Green fan, but his value has to go up when you compare him to the QB play from a year ago.Combine that with the new HC and Ginn, Brown's value has to be increasing.Or am I wrong here?

I think the line and it's improvement will have more of an impact than Green will. If it's as bad as last year I don't see either Green or Brown having much success.

 

[renesauz]

I think it almost has to go up. I am not a big Trent Green fan, but his value has to go up when you compare him to the QB play from a year ago.Combine that with the new HC and Ginn, Brown's value has to be increasing.Or am I wrong here?

I think the line and it's improvement will have more of an impact than Green will. If it's as bad as last year I don't see either Green or Brown having much success.

BINGO!

 

[rascal]

Have they done anything to address the line this offseason? Or is it the same unit from last year?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I just think that Trent Green is better than the QB play from last season.

Add in Ted Ginn.

Green should be able to use his receiving targets much better than Harrington/Culpepper to keep the defenses honest and allow for more running room for Brown. Chambers, Booker, Ginn, Hagen's numbers should all improve from last season. Lets not forget that Green had 3 straight 4,000 yard seasons from 02-05.

Also Green is used to depending on a great RB(LJ), he could help in the mentoring process and raise Brown's game.

The same could be said for Cam Cameron, who had LT, can help in the development of Ronnie Brown as a RB. He knows how to use a RB and fit an offensive system to their strengths.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Have they done anything to address the line this offseason? Or is it the same unit from last year?

They let go of a couple of guys and signed Chris Liwienski, Mike Rosenthal and drafted a Center in the 2nd round.

 

[Banger]

Have they done anything to address the line this offseason? Or is it the same unit from last year?

They let go of a couple of guys and signed Chris Liwienski, Mike Rosenthal and drafted a Center in the 2nd round.

Chris Smith is very knowledgable about o-lines and had a great post in the one of the recent offensive line rank threads and had this post....Here are my rankings of this year's offensive lines... it is always difficult to break down offensive line talent vs production because impact players such as Tomlinson and Manning can obviously have a huge impact on an OL's production... I really bumped up scheme and coaching this year while bumping down individual skill slightly... The following rankings for each team have four categories (from left to right)NAMEOverall GradeRuGradePaGradeChicago………..A…..B+…..A New England….A…..B……B+Philadelphia…...A-….A-…..B+Pittsburgh……...A-…A-…...BSan Diego……...A-…A……BJacksonville……A-…A+…..C+Indianapolis……B+…B……A-San Francisco….B+…B+…..B-Cincinnati………B+…B……BMinnesota………B….A-……C+Denver………….B…..B+…..C+Tennessee………B…..B…….BGreen Bay………B….C+…...B+New Orleans……B….B……..B+NY Jets…………B….B……..BCarolina………...B….B……..B+Washington……..B….B…….BBaltimore……….B….B…….B+Dallas…………...B….B+…...BTampa Bay……..B…..B…….BNY Giants………B….B…….BSt. Louis………...B….A…….C+Cleveland……….B….B…….BArizona…………B-…C+…...BAtlanta ………….B….B+……C Houston…………B-…B+…...C+Buffalo………….C+…B…….CSeattle…………..C+…C+……CKansas City…….C+….B…….C+Detroit………….C+….C……..CMiami…………..C-…..C-…….C-Oakland…………D……D……DHe had Miami ranked 2nd last so they have a LONG way to go to be average. This is a post I made yesterday in a Green related thread but pertains to this one...I agree with you that I think Green is a better QB than he showed last year but that was always behind an excellent line and an excellent rushing attack. My big question is was it the injury that made him look/play so poorly, was it the fact that for the 1st time since he came to KC they had a below average line and now at his age he doesn't have the quickness/ability to avoid speedy attackers or some combination of the two. The fact is he's going to a team with probably an equally bad line (probably worse) and not nearly the running threat of KC and given his limited mobility there's a definite potential for a long year. Drew Bledsoe (2 years younger than Green) was always a good QB too but there comes a time when you lose that fraction of a second reaction time and if you don't have a good line to protect you and give you time, all the sudden you become a tackling dummy. Last year may have given us a glimpse of things to come.BTW...Green had 24 sacks in less than 8 games last year and if you pro-rate that he would've sacked the 2nd most in the NFL. If his line is worse and he doesn't have a good RB that can move the chains on his own it could be a looooong year (or very short one) for Green.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Unless Trent Green can return to pre-concussion form, I don't see it improving Brown's outlook.

 

[kensat30]

I think Trent Green is a huge upgrade over what Miami was throwing out there at QB last season. Granted, he may never be the same as his pre-concussion form, but I still think a degraded Trent Green is an upgrade. His presence alone should boost the entire offense to a new level. You have to respect a guy who can thrown the ball down field. It's as simple as that.

Horrible QB play affects everyone on the field, especially the RB. Turnovers, unconverted third downs, blown scoring opportunities, etc. all lead to less running plays as you start playing from behind and falling into passing only situations. There is nothing worse than a QB who can't make all the throws, because then a defense can force you into bad situations.

I remember one game last year that was just painful to watch. Miami was playing the Packer's, and basically the entire game felt like Miami was down 3 TDs, and they were continually passing to catch up. In reality it was a very close game until GB had pulled ahead late in the 4th quarter by 2 scores. Green Bay was loading up the middle third of the field because they knew Harrington was dumping it off and he couldn't complete a pass downfield. The result: Harrington must have passed the ball something like 70 times for his 400 yards that game. And GB let him. Ronnie Brown was handed the ball maybe twice on the average 11 play series.

It would go: First down pass to Welker for 4 yards. Second down Harrington incomplete downfield to Chambers. Third down pass to Booker for 7 yards. 1st down incomplete to McMichael. 2nd down run up the middle with Brown for 3 yards. 3rd down 18 yard pass to Chambers. Rinse and repeat until the offense sputters out at the 30 yard line and Mare comes in for the field goal. Put the ball in Trent Green's hand that day and you are looking at 50 passes for 400 yards and a potential lead for Ronnie Brown to run down.

 

[John Mamula]

i doubt green even plays half the season. a 37 y/o QB coming off a big concussion is not what i would call a savior for brown.

 

[LHUCKS]

 

[LHUCKS]

Unless Trent Green can return to pre-concussion form, I don't see it improving Brown's outlook.

why wouldn't he be able to?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Unless Trent Green can return to pre-concussion form, I don't see it improving Brown's outlook.

why wouldn't he be able to?

Because its an injury that goes beyond the physical condition of his head. Taking a devastating hit like that can make you tentative for the rest of your career, ask Tommy Maddox.

 

[John Mamula]

Unless Trent Green can return to pre-concussion form, I don't see it improving Brown's outlook.

why wouldn't he be able to?

Because its an injury that goes beyond the physical condition of his head. Taking a devastating hit like that can make you tentative for the rest of your career, ask Tommy Maddox.

it's also a very slippery slope with post concussion syndrome of having less and less violent hits sidelining you for significant portions of time.he may be a nice fit for a fantasy team on a PPG basis, but how many games will that be?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Have they done anything to address the line this offseason? Or is it the same unit from last year?

They let go of a couple of guys and signed Chris Liwienski, Mike Rosenthal and drafted a Center in the 2nd round.

Chris Smith is very knowledgable about o-lines and had a great post in the one of the recent offensive line rank threads and had this post....Here are my rankings of this year's offensive lines... it is always difficult to break down offensive line talent vs production because impact players such as Tomlinson and Manning can obviously have a huge impact on an OL's production... I really bumped up scheme and coaching this year while bumping down individual skill slightly... The following rankings for each team have four categories (from left to right)NAMEOverall GradeRuGradePaGradeChicago………..A…..B+…..A New England….A…..B……B+Philadelphia…...A-….A-…..B+Pittsburgh……...A-…A-…...BSan Diego……...A-…A……BJacksonville……A-…A+…..C+Indianapolis……B+…B……A-San Francisco….B+…B+…..B-Cincinnati………B+…B……BMinnesota………B….A-……C+Denver………….B…..B+…..C+Tennessee………B…..B…….BGreen Bay………B….C+…...B+New Orleans……B….B……..B+NY Jets…………B….B……..BCarolina………...B….B……..B+Washington……..B….B…….BBaltimore……….B….B…….B+Dallas…………...B….B+…...BTampa Bay……..B…..B…….BNY Giants………B….B…….BSt. Louis………...B….A…….C+Cleveland……….B….B…….BArizona…………B-…C+…...BAtlanta ………….B….B+……C Houston…………B-…B+…...C+Buffalo………….C+…B…….CSeattle…………..C+…C+……CKansas City…….C+….B…….C+Detroit………….C+….C……..CMiami…………..C-…..C-…….C-Oakland…………D……D……DHe had Miami ranked 2nd last so they have a LONG way to go to be average. This is a post I made yesterday in a Green related thread but pertains to this one...I agree with you that I think Green is a better QB than he showed last year but that was always behind an excellent line and an excellent rushing attack. My big question is was it the injury that made him look/play so poorly, was it the fact that for the 1st time since he came to KC they had a below average line and now at his age he doesn't have the quickness/ability to avoid speedy attackers or some combination of the two. The fact is he's going to a team with probably an equally bad line (probably worse) and not nearly the running threat of KC and given his limited mobility there's a definite potential for a long year. Drew Bledsoe (2 years younger than Green) was always a good QB too but there comes a time when you lose that fraction of a second reaction time and if you don't have a good line to protect you and give you time, all the sudden you become a tackling dummy. Last year may have given us a glimpse of things to come.BTW...Green had 24 sacks in less than 8 games last year and if you pro-rate that he would've sacked the 2nd most in the NFL. If his line is worse and he doesn't have a good RB that can move the chains on his own it could be a looooong year (or very short one) for Green.

I agree that the line isn't anything to praise, but with the things I mentioned I thought people would think the situation has been upgraded more than people are mentioning.

 

[nygiants56]

Green isn't the issue, the O-line is.

if it is still as bad as it was last season,and that is bad news for Ron Brown.

 

[NCJetsFan]

Brown's struggles to live up to his draft hype go beyond QB play. Like a few have said, OL is the real problem there and it will be another year of question marks. His stock went up when Saban/Mularkey went out the door and Cam came in (who would have thought that a couple of year ago?!?). Lets see him touch the ball 300 times in a year before we buy into any lofty stat projections. I dont see how the additions of Green/Ginn increase his value any more than than it has with the addition of Cam.

All Green's addition did was stabilize (hopefully) a terrible QB situation.

As for doubting Green, why wouldn't you? He is 37 years old coming off of one of the most traumatizing injuries a guy could get nowadays. Looking at the statistics, he is one good pop away from getting another one. The Miami OL seems built to help him get that next concussion. I think it is a complete fare assesment to want to see him produce on a high level again before believing it can actually happen again. There were plenty of question marks before he went to Miami. The addition of Miami just added to them.

 

[lions327]

Green's concussions are definitely an issue, as is the Miami offensive line. I don't think Green is the answer, but he HAS to be better than Harrington. Brown will likely face the same issues he did last year, although not quite as bad.

 

[ShadowMaster]

Well down here on the beach things are VERY different. Dolfans had a Looooooooong string of years (under Shula and Dan the man) where every year we had a strong shot - and since we have been rebuilding for years.

Nobody (the people on the street) can seem to understand what the organization is thinking.

Nobody wanted Can Cameron

Nobody understands the Porter signing

Nobody understands the draft pick of Ginn

Nobody understands why we want 37 year old Trent Green so bad

It is all a quagmire of confusion from a town that was very spoiled for a long time with bright NFL outlooks, and I think people are really starting to get pissed. Been a long time since the fish looked good going into camp.

 

[Gatorman]

Well down here on the beach things are VERY different. Dolfans had a Looooooooong string of years (under Shula and Dan the man) where every year we had a strong shot - and since we have been rebuilding for years.Nobody (the people on the street) can seem to understand what the organization is thinking.Nobody wanted Can CameronNobody understands the Porter signingNobody understands the draft pick of GinnNobody understands why we want 37 year old Trent Green so badIt is all a quagmire of confusion from a town that was very spoiled for a long time with bright NFL outlooks, and I think people are really starting to get pissed. Been a long time since the fish looked good going into camp.

I disagree..I understand the hiring of cameron.I understand the porter signing I now underestand why they picked ginn (while I still disagree with the pick)I understand Trent green as our QB.I agree the fish are not going to be good, but I think a plan is in place now. The previous regimes were all trying not to get fired or prove how smart they were.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Unless Trent Green can return to pre-concussion form, I don't see it improving Brown's outlook.

why wouldn't he be able to?

Because its an injury that goes beyond the physical condition of his head. Taking a devastating hit like that can make you tentative for the rest of your career, ask Tommy Maddox.

...and Troy Aikman as a 33 year-old concussionee with a 1:2 TD/INT ratio his final season.

 

[Dhizz]

Unless Trent Green can return to pre-concussion form, I don't see it improving Brown's outlook.

why wouldn't he be able to?

Because its an injury that goes beyond the physical condition of his head. Taking a devastating hit like that can make you tentative for the rest of your career, ask Tommy Maddox.

...and Troy Aikman as a 33 year-old concussionee with a 1:2 TD/INT ratio his final season.

Which reminds me, Aikman is so overrated. He was a decent QB. Threw 20 tds once in his career. 141 ints in 161 games. Never threw for 3,500 yards. Averaged 16 passing TDs a year. There's about 7 key figures who had more to do with his SB rings then he did. Total fluff HOF QB.

 

[lions327]

Unless Trent Green can return to pre-concussion form, I don't see it improving Brown's outlook.

why wouldn't he be able to?

Because its an injury that goes beyond the physical condition of his head. Taking a devastating hit like that can make you tentative for the rest of your career, ask Tommy Maddox.

...and Troy Aikman as a 33 year-old concussionee with a 1:2 TD/INT ratio his final season.

Which reminds me, Aikman is so overrated. He was a decent QB. Threw 20 tds once in his career. 141 ints in 161 games. Never threw for 3,500 yards. Averaged 16 passing TDs a year. There's about 7 key figures who had more to do with his SB rings then he did. Total fluff HOF QB.

The people discussing Trent Green don't care about what you think of Aikman. This is a Trent Green thread.

 

[Phlash]

Unless Trent Green can return to pre-concussion form, I don't see it improving Brown's outlook.

why wouldn't he be able to?

Because its an injury that goes beyond the physical condition of his head. Taking a devastating hit like that can make you tentative for the rest of your career, ask Tommy Maddox.

...and Troy Aikman as a 33 year-old concussionee with a 1:2 TD/INT ratio his final season.

Which reminds me, Aikman is so overrated. He was a decent QB. Threw 20 tds once in his career. 141 ints in 161 games. Never threw for 3,500 yards. Averaged 16 passing TDs a year. There's about 7 key figures who had more to do with his SB rings then he did. Total fluff HOF QB.

The people discussing Trent Green don't care about what you think of Aikman. This is a Trent Green thread.

:rage:

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now.

 

[identikit]

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now.

So this really should have been an assistant coach posting.

Nice scam....no class at all.

Id

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now.

So this really should have been an assistant coach posting.

Nice scam....no class at all.

Id

Not neccessarily, the guy that I traded him to probably read the thread and believed a little.But in all honesty I was trying to guage if his value went up, I thought it did and most in here disagreed. So I shipped him.

 

[identikit]

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now.

So this really should have been an assistant coach posting.

Nice scam....no class at all.

Id

Not neccessarily, the guy that I traded him to probably read the thread and believed a little.But in all honesty I was trying to guage if his value went up, I thought it did and most in here disagreed. So I shipped him.

Like I said, it belonged in the AC forum.

But hey you got away with it, so all's good right?

Id

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now.

So this really should have been an assistant coach posting.

Nice scam....no class at all.

Id

Not neccessarily, the guy that I traded him to probably read the thread and believed a little.But in all honesty I was trying to guage if his value went up, I thought it did and most in here disagreed. So I shipped him.

Like I said, it belonged in the AC forum.

But hey you got away with it, so all's good right?

Id

It wasn't a good discussion? I thought it was once someone brought Troy Aikman into the mix

 

[identikit]

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now.

So this really should have been an assistant coach posting.

Nice scam....no class at all.

Id

Not neccessarily, the guy that I traded him to probably read the thread and believed a little.But in all honesty I was trying to guage if his value went up, I thought it did and most in here disagreed. So I shipped him.

Like I said, it belonged in the AC forum.

But hey you got away with it, so all's good right?

Id

It wasn't a good discussion? I thought it was once someone brought Troy Aikman into the mix

Tool.

 

[DenverBroncos]

Yes, it does help a little because Green can move the chains. He is good with the dump pass and Ronnie Brown should have a top 10RB year. He has amazing hands and all though Booker will get some receptions, Ronnie is in for a big year.

 

[rock753]

Cleo Lemmon?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now.

So this really should have been an assistant coach posting.

Nice scam....no class at all.

Id

Not neccessarily, the guy that I traded him to probably read the thread and believed a little.But in all honesty I was trying to guage if his value went up, I thought it did and most in here disagreed. So I shipped him.

Like I said, it belonged in the AC forum.

But hey you got away with it, so all's good right?

Id

It wasn't a good discussion? I thought it was once someone brought Troy Aikman into the mix

Tool.

Aren't we all tools trying to increase our knowledge of football at every moment we open a topic?Game over

 

[identikit]

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now.

So this really should have been an assistant coach posting.

Nice scam....no class at all.

Id

Not neccessarily, the guy that I traded him to probably read the thread and believed a little.But in all honesty I was trying to guage if his value went up, I thought it did and most in here disagreed. So I shipped him.

Like I said, it belonged in the AC forum.

But hey you got away with it, so all's good right?

Id

It wasn't a good discussion? I thought it was once someone brought Troy Aikman into the mix

Tool.

Aren't we all tools trying to increase our knowledge of football at every moment we open a topic?Game over

No...it's just you, pretty much...multiple posts about a trade you couldn't decide on your own without littering the boards. Just step up and accept or reject.

Id

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now.

So this really should have been an assistant coach posting.

Nice scam....no class at all.

Id

Not neccessarily, the guy that I traded him to probably read the thread and believed a little.But in all honesty I was trying to guage if his value went up, I thought it did and most in here disagreed. So I shipped him.

Like I said, it belonged in the AC forum.

But hey you got away with it, so all's good right?

Id

It wasn't a good discussion? I thought it was once someone brought Troy Aikman into the mix

Tool.

Aren't we all tools trying to increase our knowledge of football at every moment we open a topic?Game over

No...it's just you, pretty much...multiple posts about a trade you couldn't decide on your own without littering the boards. Just step up and accept or reject.

Id

Wow.....if you could point me towards a spot in this topic where I even mentioned a trade.....thats right. GAME OVER Also I guess I forgot that you have been a member longer and were a mod on these boards.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Damn did that deteriorate quickly.

My is Green is a concussion waiting to happen. I think Ronnie Brown has more value this year, but for different reasons.

 

[identikit]

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now.

So this really should have been an assistant coach posting.

Nice scam....no class at all.

Id

Not neccessarily, the guy that I traded him to probably read the thread and believed a little.But in all honesty I was trying to guage if his value went up, I thought it did and most in here disagreed. So I shipped him.

Like I said, it belonged in the AC forum.

But hey you got away with it, so all's good right?

Id

It wasn't a good discussion? I thought it was once someone brought Troy Aikman into the mix

Tool.

Aren't we all tools trying to increase our knowledge of football at every moment we open a topic?Game over

No...it's just you, pretty much...multiple posts about a trade you couldn't decide on your own without littering the boards. Just step up and accept or reject.

Id

Wow.....if you could point me towards a spot in this topic where I even mentioned a trade.....thats right. GAME OVER Also I guess I forgot that you have been a member longer and were a mod on these boards.

Here it is:(benson_will_lead_the_way @ Jun 9 2007, 09:50 PM)

I just shipped away Ronnie Brown...so my overall caring factor is lessened now

Spin it however you want. It is what it is. AC fodder.

Id

 

[lions327]

 

[benbadman]

With the convergence of new offensive influences from the 2 prototype fantasy RBs, the Charger's Cam Cameron's playcalling / coaching plus Trent Green's experiences handing the rock to LJ & Priest, while playing off those strengths, could mean big things for Brown in '07.More importantly where is Ronnie Brown valued at?Is he a tweener RB 1.5? --- not quite RB1 stud but better than RB2s like Edgerrin James, Cadillac, and Deuce, etc? Imo, in 07 he will get good yardage per game like in 06, but still his TDs wont be double digits, expect like 6-8, with maybe two 2 TD games, then 4-6 games with just 1 TD. So very hit or miss RB1.5 to RB2.I took Brown at 1.09 last year (ahead of S.Jax lol, cuz the Rams signed Stephen Davis figured he'd TD vulture), and I think in 07 Brown is still like the 8-14th RB off the board. He could blow up like Stephen Jackson did last year, or he could just plod along and be a guy you platoon at RB2 based on matchups.