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Does this board need a SharkIER Pool? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Morton Muffley
- Start date
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Good post. What is that guy thinking, I think posters like him are who the original poster is referring to. The guy who reads two sentences and then hits reply to see his words in writing. I voted that I don't think it is a good idea, but it does intrique me a bit. I agree that you just need to know what you are reading to decide if someone knows what they are talking about. Through the years, I have noticed some dumb posts, but we all do it at some time. This board is quality, and I think Doddsy and the fellas are pretty darn proud of what they created here, and I would hate to see some people be excluded from that list that should not be, because with a membership of such a high number it is impossible to sort out the best from the worst without really putting in the research which I am hoping noone really has the time to do.Did you score low on the reading comprehension part of your SATs?And of course you’d be part of the 500 right
kaso
Footballguy
I think this is a horrible idea.
Membership number != quality information
Number of previous posts != quality of opinion
Perceived value to the board != the correct understanding of a situation.
The whole point of having a message board where everybody can chime in on a topic is to have the views of everybody in one area. Doing this would split each topic and require a double amount of effor to check in on one situation.
For example, "Does Lynch play this week?" There would be a thread in the 'Shark Pool 2.0' and a thread in the normal shark pool. The conversation would be split and posters in both threads would likely be responding to comments made in each others thread.
If this does seem like a good idea, then I think the only answer is to spend the time adding everybody but your top 500 to your ignore list.
Membership number != quality information
Number of previous posts != quality of opinion
Perceived value to the board != the correct understanding of a situation.
The whole point of having a message board where everybody can chime in on a topic is to have the views of everybody in one area. Doing this would split each topic and require a double amount of effor to check in on one situation.
For example, "Does Lynch play this week?" There would be a thread in the 'Shark Pool 2.0' and a thread in the normal shark pool. The conversation would be split and posters in both threads would likely be responding to comments made in each others thread.
If this does seem like a good idea, then I think the only answer is to spend the time adding everybody but your top 500 to your ignore list.
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
People need to usemore and
less. Positive reinforcement, kids... that's what it's all about. Everyone in this forum is entitled to his/her opinion and they're all valid. No need to bury those with a different viewpoint, let's celebrate it instead !!!
not sarcasm...absolutely agree
bonesman
Footballguy
People need to usemore and
less. Positive reinforcement, kids... that's what it's all about. Everyone in this forum is entitled to his/her opinion and they're all valid. No need to bury those with a different viewpoint, let's celebrate it instead !!!
Koya
Footballguy
Just a general sentiment. During season you have newbies. You have WDIS's. You have repeat threads on subjects. That's life.The idea that this cliquey group of uber-sharkies... I mean, it's kind of silly imo. The whole "shark" concept itself is at times laughable. As if some people really think they are "sharks" compared to the "guppies" - taking ourselves and this hobby a bit too seriously maybe?Never been a fan of the whole "shark" concept. It is almost as if once someone calls themselves a "shark" I presume they are most likely, not. Not directed at your per se, but this idea of a "special" and "exclusive" forum just comes off as people thinking too highly of themselves when it comes to this hobby.
Gopher State
Footballguy
The New England group?There's a group of us who already do this.
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
I don't think it has anything to do with different viewpoints. O.P. said he would like to see a special forum for the top 500 posters so he would not have to sift through the "thoughts" of the worst 500 posters. This concept really doesn't have much to do with the rest of us. I happen to agree with you. On most things we talk about here, others viewpoints and opinions are are valid. But let's not confuse valid with RIGHT.In general, the top 500 posters - well, MY top 500 posters are people who would choose to not respond unless they had something PARTICULARLY useful to add. What would be so wrong with having a forum like that to read? Uncluttered. Straight to the point. Without the "noise". The one thing I do agree with that's been said though is that if you make a special forum for those posters there would be little reason for any of them to ever post in the regular pool again (making it less of a resource). That's a valid concern.People need to usenot sarcasm...absolutely agree
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
Well, why I don't think my idea is horrible, I do agree with just about everything else you've said. I think the duplication of info across boards is definitely problematic, which is why I later on suggested that the new board contain on 4-5 live topics at any given time.Anyway, I'd really like to thank everyone for all the feedback and comment that I really enjoyed hearing from those who have experienced some of my frustrations as well as hearing from those within this thread that were able to inadvertantly demonstrate so clearly why these frustrations are vaild. I guess what I've found most amusing is the visceral reaction to the concept of exclusion. I personally don't have any problem reading a board that I might be able to respond to, but clearly many of you do. That's cool, I just didn't realize the contingent was as big as it clearly is, though I also think many who cited this issue are giving some knee-jerk responses to the idea of change (e.g., I don't really think an invitation-only board would threaten freedom of expression), but that's probably a topic for another day/thread.All the best,MortonI think this is a horrible idea. Membership number != quality informationNumber of previous posts != quality of opinionPerceived value to the board != the correct understanding of a situation.The whole point of having a message board where everybody can chime in on a topic is to have the views of everybody in one area. Doing this would split each topic and require a double amount of effor to check in on one situation.For example, "Does Lynch play this week?" There would be a thread in the 'Shark Pool 2.0' and a thread in the normal shark pool. The conversation would be split and posters in both threads would likely be responding to comments made in each others thread.If this does seem like a good idea, then I think the only answer is to spend the time adding everybody but your top 500 to your ignore list.
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
Agree with you on the "Shark" moniker being "a bit much"And my idea was not to create a clique, though I can see how that could happen...but that wasn't my intent. My intent was to have some place to go to read people's real-time thoughts on developing issues without having to wade through all the BS. Sounds like some other sites do this and it certainly seems like it done here (the FBG Roundtable for example) in lesser ways. Perhaps setting the # at 500+ is the issue. I came up with out of thin air as I wanted something big enough to be substantive, but also recognized that it needed to be limited. I'm really surprised by the exclusivity issue being such a big deal to people, but then as I said I don't post very often so the idea of being excluded from posting doesn't really bother me.Anyway, thanks for the clarification
dynasty central
Footballguy
I think that creating a special board is a terrible idea, but wouldn't be adverse to having topics displayed that only certain people could post to. (definitly not me)
Couple of things.
1) I think the OP's concern was clearly validated in this thread by people who decided to lash out at him without reading the entire first post or any of the ones that followed.
2) I answered "need to hear more". The "top-500" that is referenced is probably more of a "mature-500". I think the problem is not the opinions, its the bickering. So I don't think anyone is trying to get the smartest 499 fantasy footballers + me
in a room. Rather, the point is to get 500 people giving their educated opinion on a topic...and only the topic.
3) Maybe a better solution and I don't think this would be much of a programming problem is to highlight certain posts. There would be a few ways to do it...you could have the mod's choose 500 (for example) posters who are generally "good posters" and the background for their posts would be a shade of red instead of blue. The better way to do it would be to have a listing of all members and allow each member to go through and choose (i.e. via check-box) which member's posts they would like to highlight...again, each post by your favorite posters would appear with a different color background. This would allow you to just skim through a topic and stop only to read posts from those whose opinions you care about. Not sure about the programming limitations on this.
Okay, so that was three things. Here's more...
In my opinion, any limitation (i.e. the original idea, #3 above, etc.) to hearing as many opinions as possible is detrimental to the board. It doesn't take that long to skim through the first 2 pages of the forum and find which topics would be helpful to you. From there, it again only takes a few moments to skim through a topic and decide which posts are helpful to you. For those technology-deficient members, when skimming through the forum, don't click on any of the posts...rather, right-click and open the topic in a "new window" or "new tab"...this way, you don't have to keep losing your spot on the forum page and you can quickly get through the forum to see how many topics you'd actually like to read.
Ultimately, everyone should employ common sense...if you (by "you" I'm not talking to anyone in particular) don't like a thread or post, move on.
EDIT: grammar
1) I think the OP's concern was clearly validated in this thread by people who decided to lash out at him without reading the entire first post or any of the ones that followed.
2) I answered "need to hear more". The "top-500" that is referenced is probably more of a "mature-500". I think the problem is not the opinions, its the bickering. So I don't think anyone is trying to get the smartest 499 fantasy footballers + me
in a room. Rather, the point is to get 500 people giving their educated opinion on a topic...and only the topic.3) Maybe a better solution and I don't think this would be much of a programming problem is to highlight certain posts. There would be a few ways to do it...you could have the mod's choose 500 (for example) posters who are generally "good posters" and the background for their posts would be a shade of red instead of blue. The better way to do it would be to have a listing of all members and allow each member to go through and choose (i.e. via check-box) which member's posts they would like to highlight...again, each post by your favorite posters would appear with a different color background. This would allow you to just skim through a topic and stop only to read posts from those whose opinions you care about. Not sure about the programming limitations on this.
Okay, so that was three things. Here's more...
In my opinion, any limitation (i.e. the original idea, #3 above, etc.) to hearing as many opinions as possible is detrimental to the board. It doesn't take that long to skim through the first 2 pages of the forum and find which topics would be helpful to you. From there, it again only takes a few moments to skim through a topic and decide which posts are helpful to you. For those technology-deficient members, when skimming through the forum, don't click on any of the posts...rather, right-click and open the topic in a "new window" or "new tab"...this way, you don't have to keep losing your spot on the forum page and you can quickly get through the forum to see how many topics you'd actually like to read.
Ultimately, everyone should employ common sense...if you (by "you" I'm not talking to anyone in particular) don't like a thread or post, move on.
EDIT: grammar
Last edited by a moderator:
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
Thanks. Some great ideas and definitely an example of what I consider a great post...that is, you don't have to agree with the original post in order to build off of it in a meaningful and constructive way.Couple of things. 1) I think the OP's concern was clearly validated in this thread by people who decided to lash out at him without reading the entire first post or any of the ones that followed.2) I answered "need to hear more". The "top-500" that is referenced is probably more of a "mature-500". I think the problem is not the opinions, its the bickering. So I don't think anyone is trying to get the smartest 499 fantasy footballers + mein a room. Rather, the point is to get 500 people giving their educated opinion on a topic...and only the topic.3) Maybe a better solution and I don't think this would be much of a programming problem is to highlight certain posts. There would be a few ways to do it...you could have the mod's decide 500 (for example) posters who are generally "good posters" and the background for their posts would be a shade of red instead of blue. The better way to do it would be to have a listing of all members and allow each member to go through and choose (i.e. via check-box) which member's posts they would like to highlight...again, each post by your favorite posters would appear with a different color background. This would allow you to just skim through a topic and stop only to read posts from those whose opinions you care about. Not sure about the programming limitations on this.Okay, so that was three things. Here's more...In my opinion, any limitation (i.e. the original idea, #3 above, etc.) to as hearing many opinions as possible is detrimental to the board. It doesn't take that long to skim through the first 2 pages of the forum and find which topics would be helpful to you. From there, it again only takes a few moments to skim through a topic and decide which posts are helpful to you. For those technology-deficient members, when skimming through the forum, don't click on any of the posts...rather, right-click and open the topic in a "new window" or "new tab"...this way, you don't have to keep losing your spot on the forum page and you can quickly get through the forum to see how many topics you'd actually like to read.Ultimately, everyone should employ common sense...if you (by "you" I'm not talking to anyone in particular) don't like a thread or post, move on.
Hey Mort,
Great idea, imo. But, I know that Joe and Co., have addressed this stuff before and generally quashed the idea. Here's a thought guys (I'll put up a poll as well if anyone would be interested). Some of the HUGE boards that exist on this crazy interweb thingie actually have a "user rating" system. Someone makes a "bad" post that is generally regarded as clutter/crap/useless/un-"nice" to someone else...they get pelted with "thumbs-down" marks and their rating goes down. Someone makes a well thought out post or reply...BAMF, they get "thumbs-ups".
Now, to those that don't care, they just completely ignore these ratings. But to those that get kinda tired / bored with wading through 9 out of 10 posts that either show complete lack of reading comprehension, is meaningless, or is a personal attack can turn ON the filtering and basically have those peole with a rating below some threshold auto-ignored.
Anyway, this would take some work for the mighty and great Grand Pumbaa of the FBG boards to put something like this in place. BUT, it'd definitely be:
1. Unique in the FF community
2. Provide a customized filter for some of the "noise"
3. Give a nice way for this community to "police" itself of the rubbish
4. Have nothing to do with your member #
Thoughts?
Great idea, imo. But, I know that Joe and Co., have addressed this stuff before and generally quashed the idea. Here's a thought guys (I'll put up a poll as well if anyone would be interested). Some of the HUGE boards that exist on this crazy interweb thingie actually have a "user rating" system. Someone makes a "bad" post that is generally regarded as clutter/crap/useless/un-"nice" to someone else...they get pelted with "thumbs-down" marks and their rating goes down. Someone makes a well thought out post or reply...BAMF, they get "thumbs-ups".
Now, to those that don't care, they just completely ignore these ratings. But to those that get kinda tired / bored with wading through 9 out of 10 posts that either show complete lack of reading comprehension, is meaningless, or is a personal attack can turn ON the filtering and basically have those peole with a rating below some threshold auto-ignored.
Anyway, this would take some work for the mighty and great Grand Pumbaa of the FBG boards to put something like this in place. BUT, it'd definitely be:
1. Unique in the FF community
2. Provide a customized filter for some of the "noise"
3. Give a nice way for this community to "police" itself of the rubbish
4. Have nothing to do with your member #
Thoughts?
Last edited by a moderator:
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Sounds like you'd fit in perfectly.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
As Groucho Marx once said, "I remember the first time I had sex - I kept the receipt."
Oops, sorry, wrong Groucho quote. It was this one:
"I refuse to belong to any club that will accept me as a member."
That's got little to do with what I'm about to say either, but I like the quote and like having an excuse to use it.
I think this message board is what it is, a microcosm of general knowledge, a bell curve of fantasy football expertise:
A) People who really keep up with news year round and have the experience, ability, interest, whatever, to be able to process that news into meaningful opinions, insights, probabilities and forecasts. Some of these folks ought to seek therapy for spending so much of their time and thought on this goofy hobby and not getting paid for their efforts.
B) The average casual FF players who make up the bulk of the population in the middle. They enjoy the board but are mostly here for a diversion now and then. They contribute what they can with an info tidbit or an opinion when it seems appropriate. They are here mostly in July - December, disappearing to go do other things the rest of the year.
C) The tools, idiots, little-knowledge-but-lots-of-opinion types, trolls / instigators / fishermen, etc. who make up the other end of the bell curve. Some of these guys are just plain ignorant and don't realize it, some are immature in a big way, and sadly some are both. I wish the ignorant would shut up and learn, and the tools would just go away, but this board is a little bit of life and they are always going to be part of it.
There is a larger voice coming from Group B and Group C types during the regular season than during the offseason of course, and that just makes sense. Group B folks aren't as dedicated to the hobby as those around in winter and spring, and Group C guys don't have the audience they need for their "look at me" act. Count me among those who read and post less here as the season goes along because of the lower quality of the subject material, but I accept that as normal. Many more posts are going to be gut reaction to what has just happened or is about to happen, from guys who respond as fans of their own NFL teams or as owners of specific players, not as detached objective observers.
What the OP is looking for is a place to read guys who can still put out quality posts in the regular season among the avalanche of blah blah blah. OP doesn't want to have to hunt for those posts or weed through the garbage. The idea has merit, but there are some problems.
Everybody thinks he is above average at this game (and if someone is below average, he concludes that FF is mostly luck). So, everybody believes his posts are as valuable and worthwhile as anyone else's posts, and any separate posting group is seen by many as snobbery. I think having an elitist class of posters on a separate board would cause more trouble than it would be worth on a variety of fronts. Who gets in. Who chooses. How and why chosen. Resentment among those not chosen. Dilution of the current board, allowing the tools to have a stronger position here.
Maybe a separate posting group, while it wouldn't have the Group C guys, would prove to include a lot fewer truly insightful posters than you'd think, and include a lot more guys who seem to know because they write well or frequently, but over time show that real insight just isn't there. And newer guys who come aboard need the chance to interact with the solid, knowledgeable posters here so they can learn, debate, etc. and become more knowledgeable themselves.
Maybe it's better for everyone to have to weed through the morass of drivel to get to the value so we can decide for ourselves who we do and do not want to trust. The tools we can report. The ignorant we can teach or at least tolerate. And the average guy is what gives the board its strength. Not the theoretical elite poster, but the guy whose sister works some place where she knows a guy who dates someone who knows the grocer who talked to Player X who told him this or that.
We can still have some of what the OP wants in the context of this board if threads are titled and planned properly. But let's stay all-inclusive so everyone can learn through participation, not just through reading. You can't ask a question or get a clarification if you are on the outside looking in. "I refuse to belong to any club that will accept me as a member."
Oops, sorry, wrong Groucho quote. It was this one:
"I refuse to belong to any club that will accept me as a member."
That's got little to do with what I'm about to say either, but I like the quote and like having an excuse to use it.
I think this message board is what it is, a microcosm of general knowledge, a bell curve of fantasy football expertise:
A) People who really keep up with news year round and have the experience, ability, interest, whatever, to be able to process that news into meaningful opinions, insights, probabilities and forecasts. Some of these folks ought to seek therapy for spending so much of their time and thought on this goofy hobby and not getting paid for their efforts.
B) The average casual FF players who make up the bulk of the population in the middle. They enjoy the board but are mostly here for a diversion now and then. They contribute what they can with an info tidbit or an opinion when it seems appropriate. They are here mostly in July - December, disappearing to go do other things the rest of the year.
C) The tools, idiots, little-knowledge-but-lots-of-opinion types, trolls / instigators / fishermen, etc. who make up the other end of the bell curve. Some of these guys are just plain ignorant and don't realize it, some are immature in a big way, and sadly some are both. I wish the ignorant would shut up and learn, and the tools would just go away, but this board is a little bit of life and they are always going to be part of it.
There is a larger voice coming from Group B and Group C types during the regular season than during the offseason of course, and that just makes sense. Group B folks aren't as dedicated to the hobby as those around in winter and spring, and Group C guys don't have the audience they need for their "look at me" act. Count me among those who read and post less here as the season goes along because of the lower quality of the subject material, but I accept that as normal. Many more posts are going to be gut reaction to what has just happened or is about to happen, from guys who respond as fans of their own NFL teams or as owners of specific players, not as detached objective observers.
What the OP is looking for is a place to read guys who can still put out quality posts in the regular season among the avalanche of blah blah blah. OP doesn't want to have to hunt for those posts or weed through the garbage. The idea has merit, but there are some problems.
Everybody thinks he is above average at this game (and if someone is below average, he concludes that FF is mostly luck). So, everybody believes his posts are as valuable and worthwhile as anyone else's posts, and any separate posting group is seen by many as snobbery. I think having an elitist class of posters on a separate board would cause more trouble than it would be worth on a variety of fronts. Who gets in. Who chooses. How and why chosen. Resentment among those not chosen. Dilution of the current board, allowing the tools to have a stronger position here.
Maybe a separate posting group, while it wouldn't have the Group C guys, would prove to include a lot fewer truly insightful posters than you'd think, and include a lot more guys who seem to know because they write well or frequently, but over time show that real insight just isn't there. And newer guys who come aboard need the chance to interact with the solid, knowledgeable posters here so they can learn, debate, etc. and become more knowledgeable themselves.
Maybe it's better for everyone to have to weed through the morass of drivel to get to the value so we can decide for ourselves who we do and do not want to trust. The tools we can report. The ignorant we can teach or at least tolerate. And the average guy is what gives the board its strength. Not the theoretical elite poster, but the guy whose sister works some place where she knows a guy who dates someone who knows the grocer who talked to Player X who told him this or that.
We can still have some of what the OP wants in the context of this board if threads are titled and planned properly. But let's stay all-inclusive so everyone can learn through participation, not just through reading. You can't ask a question or get a clarification if you are on the outside looking in. "I refuse to belong to any club that will accept me as a member."
fatness
Footballguy
Sorry, but asking a successful discussion forum to voluntarily fragment itself is kind of stupid. It really is.
People change and no longer enjoy some things they used to enjoy, including message boards. It's more often a reflection of a change in the person than a change in the board.
We don't need to be divided in rank. I'll be damned if I'm going to salute Sgt. Couch Potato.
People change and no longer enjoy some things they used to enjoy, including message boards. It's more often a reflection of a change in the person than a change in the board.
We don't need to be divided in rank. I'll be damned if I'm going to salute Sgt. Couch Potato.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Pictus Cat
Footballguy
You want to break up my family?
Regular season is like the holidays where you see relatives not seen the rest of the year. The ignorant probably can't help but learn by posting and feedback for their responses. I think the tools are moderated pretty well. Just My Humble Opinion.
Not sure what category I fit into. Feel free to rate and label me for every post.
Regular season is like the holidays where you see relatives not seen the rest of the year. The ignorant probably can't help but learn by posting and feedback for their responses. I think the tools are moderated pretty well. Just My Humble Opinion.
Not sure what category I fit into. Feel free to rate and label me for every post.
scapegoat
Footballguy
The primary Red Sox Form Sons of Sam Horn does something similar, where there is a main forum, then a "Sandbox" where people who are new to the site are allowed to post. There is still good discussion on both forums but the primary forum is surprisingly clear of jibberish.
The standards for "promotion" are simply to get noticed by a mod or key member who can get you promoted ito be able to post elsewhere. This can be done usually through starting a few good threads in the Sandbox and contributing to good discussions.
Then again... Joe has stated repeatedly that he is against dividing up this forum... even adding a subscribers only shark pool was shot down... so I wouldn't hold your breath.
The standards for "promotion" are simply to get noticed by a mod or key member who can get you promoted ito be able to post elsewhere. This can be done usually through starting a few good threads in the Sandbox and contributing to good discussions.
Then again... Joe has stated repeatedly that he is against dividing up this forum... even adding a subscribers only shark pool was shot down... so I wouldn't hold your breath.
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
Thanks Indy. Yours is a much better idea than mine since it addresses many of my issues, without creating the myriad problems of a parallel board of uber-elites. I think if some of the toolish comments around here could be called out via some rating system then perhaps we could increase the overall quality of the boards (both in terms of insightful comments and generally civil doscourse).
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
I'm all for it, I hate to say it, but I will as an original who goes back to Big Goldie, the Shark Pool ain't what it was. Good information stuff lurks, but the pool is now a pond, and you have to sift through it. I think its a great idea to allow it to be read. I hate to see the SP take this turn, but I'm all for some correction.
What's the worst that happens if we try it?
I would also include off season participation as a consideration for clearance on that board.
What's the worst that happens if we try it?
I would also include off season participation as a consideration for clearance on that board.
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
Interesting. I was aware that Joe and Co. don't want a subscriber-only board and can understand that dividing up the pop would dilute the end product(s), but my assumption was always that subscriber-only board would be accessible only to subscribers. That's somewhat different from my suggestion (and the SonsofSamHorn board) where everyone can see, but only some can post.Anyway, I can understand people's desire to keep these boards as they are (all inclusive), but I do worry about how many people are feeling like me (or worse how many have left because of their frustrations).The primary Red Sox Form Sons of Sam Horn does something similar, where there is a main forum, then a "Sandbox" where people who are new to the site are allowed to post. There is still good discussion on both forums but the primary forum is surprisingly clear of jibberish.
The standards for "promotion" are simply to get noticed by a mod or key member who can get you promoted ito be able to post elsewhere. This can be done usually through starting a few good threads in the Sandbox and contributing to good discussions.
Then again... Joe has stated repeatedly that he is against dividing up this forum... even adding a subscribers only shark pool was shot down... so I wouldn't hold your breath.
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
Thanks for your thoughtful response. Your position (i.e. gotta live with the chaffe in the wheat) certainly seems to be the majority one.
shakeybarn
Footballguy
indeed... count me as one of 500 too. 
cstu
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
And if you call yourself a shark, you likely aren't.
Koya
Footballguy
I miss Shick! (just check my sig) and the twirling mayhem he could spread by nothing more than the appearance of his handle in the user's within a thread. Not to mention when I got close to or overstepped a line, he'd let me know. Wouldnt let something that was utterly benign compared to so much on this board end up with a nice week's suspension with me wondering wtf even happened.
I wouldn't call myself a shark...but I see a lot of guppies swimming around!And if you call yourself a shark, you likely aren't.
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