Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (2 Viewers)

[phrozen]

You guys are fools if you think winning teams with real leadership put up with "locker room" behavior. I can't imagine what color the sky is on the planet where the patriots, broncos, saints, etc let stuff like this go on.

Those teams have strong leaders on them. Manning or Brady wouldn't ever put up with that sort of crap. Who are the leaders on Miami?

Excellent point

Incognito was a leader of the defense

 

[phrozen]

Bill Polian (who knows a thing or two about pro football culture) on Mike and Mike said he and Dungy had some rules. No hazing. Everyone was to be considered a professional and a teammate. To become a sum greater that the parts you cannot destroy one another. Manning, Saturday, Freeney etc. were all on board and helped enforce these rules.

But the keyboard jockeys here clearly know better than that.

You're one of those jockeys my friend. You're just on one side of the fence.

The second stuff like this happens you clowns run and pick sides than post aritcles and quotes from people who support your side than hop on your soap box. .

Here's a thought, how about actually accepting that you know nothing about the locker room culture of an NFL locker room, or any locker room. How about realizing that there's two sides of the fence. Some teams haze. Some don't. Some players are fine with it. Some arent. It's unreal in here sometimes with the amount of BS you have to read when stuff like this happens. The bottom line is that you simply don't understand. You've made that known over the past couple of pages. Just accept it and move on.

You really are dense aren't you. I'm quoting a 6 time GM of the year. Did you play in the NFL? I 'understand' how it is in some locker rooms. I'm saying its not necessary, and like Abe said, it's not even a positive. But keep pounding caveman.

I love the internet tough guy routine here. easy to hide behind a monitor with your beer gut and queso dip on your t-shirt. maybe you should try to crush a couple of empty cans of natural light with your forehead in honor of your support for Incognito.

 

[Doug B]

So Scheffter was saying this morning that there are more players/personnel who were harassed by Incognito? His relationship with Martin almost seems like a prison relationship, where the guy just makes the weaker person do everything he wants. Drive him to work, sit next to him on the plane, pay for his trips and meals, put up with abuse etc. Something weird may be going on here that is yet to come to light.

Yes. Martin leaving the team was a symptom, not the disease.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Bill Polian (who knows a thing or two about pro football culture) on Mike and Mike said he and Dungy had some rules. No hazing. Everyone was to be considered a professional and a teammate. To become a sum greater that the parts you cannot destroy one another. Manning, Saturday, Freeney etc. were all on board and helped enforce these rules.

But the keyboard jockeys here clearly know better than that.

You're one of those jockeys my friend. You're just on one side of the fence.

The second stuff like this happens you clowns run and pick sides than post aritcles and quotes from people who support your side than hop on your soap box. .

Here's a thought, how about actually accepting that you know nothing about the locker room culture of an NFL locker room, or any locker room. How about realizing that there's two sides of the fence. Some teams haze. Some don't. Some players are fine with it. Some arent. It's unreal in here sometimes with the amount of BS you have to read when stuff like this happens. The bottom line is that you simply don't understand. You've made that known over the past couple of pages. Just accept it and move on.

You really are dense aren't you. I'm quoting a 6 time GM of the year. Did you play in the NFL? I 'understand' how it is in some locker rooms. I'm saying its not necessary, and like Abe said, it's not even a positive. But keep pounding caveman.

I never played in the NFL and I know it. Knowing that, I have no need to quote and tell others how it needs to be or should be, like you continue to do. Seriously, how many days does this go on? Keep quoting those who agree with you, so long as their resume says their opinion is the only opinion because it jives with what you believe something should be like.

You're a jockey as well. One that isnt even sure what F;ing race he's running in.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Bill Polian (who knows a thing or two about pro football culture) on Mike and Mike said he and Dungy had some rules. No hazing. Everyone was to be considered a professional and a teammate. To become a sum greater that the parts you cannot destroy one another. Manning, Saturday, Freeney etc. were all on board and helped enforce these rules.

But the keyboard jockeys here clearly know better than that.

You're one of those jockeys my friend. You're just on one side of the fence.

The second stuff like this happens you clowns run and pick sides than post aritcles and quotes from people who support your side than hop on your soap box. .

Here's a thought, how about actually accepting that you know nothing about the locker room culture of an NFL locker room, or any locker room. How about realizing that there's two sides of the fence. Some teams haze. Some don't. Some players are fine with it. Some arent. It's unreal in here sometimes with the amount of BS you have to read when stuff like this happens. The bottom line is that you simply don't understand. You've made that known over the past couple of pages. Just accept it and move on.

You really are dense aren't you. I'm quoting a 6 time GM of the year. Did you play in the NFL? I 'understand' how it is in some locker rooms. I'm saying its not necessary, and like Abe said, it's not even a positive. But keep pounding caveman.

I love the internet tough guy routine here. easy to hide behind a monitor with your beer gut and queso dip on your t-shirt. maybe you should try to crush a couple of empty cans of natural light with your forehead in honor of your support for Incognito.

Your perception of me is ammusing. I suppose I'm acting tough because I can be opbjective enough to say that I dont know what happened and point out others with some sort of odd agenda,

He went with the Internet Jockey and was too stupid to realize he was one as well.

And again, I cant tell if youre trolling or a little slow but I don't side with either of these people. I know, I know, it's odd because I'm supposed to be picking a side....

 

[LittlePhatty]

You guys are fools if you think winning teams with real leadership put up with "locker room" behavior. I can't imagine what color the sky is on the planet where the patriots, broncos, saints, etc let stuff like this go on.

Those teams have strong leaders on them. Manning or Brady wouldn't ever put up with that sort of crap. Who are the leaders on Miami?

Excellent point

Incognito was a leader of the defense

Huh? Maybe you mean O Line?

Anyway, if he's who other players look to for leadership, that's probably part of the problem. If the captain is an idiot, the ship is likely to sink.

 

[Doug B]

I never played in the NFL and I know it. Knowing that, I have no need to quote and tell others how it needs to be or should be, like you continue to do.

There are a bunch of desk jockeys in Washington that can and will tell the NFL how it needs to be in locker rooms. The NFL locker room is not some sacrosanct place where anything goes -- it is a workplace, and now with the spotlight shining bright ... it will be treated as one going forward by the powers that be. The culture can and will change, and it will do so on a dime.

 

[Da Guru]

Unfortunately this story is not just gonna be the nightly NFLN at 5:00, this is now on MSNBC, the View, lot of people who know very little about professional sports are going to weigh in with their opinion and that is gonna muddy the waters a lot here.

This will be historic in the realm of hazing and bullying. This topic was already toxic enough with modern tech and the tragedies of young people. This will be a catalyst for something. I don't know what though.

If that girl wouldn't have just killed herself over "cyber-bullying" I don't think this story would be so big.

Don't be a ####### ##### bag. It isn't funny.

He was obviously being sarcastic (in very bad taste) but has a point. There is a difference between a couple 300lb NFL players making 40 or 60 million than a helpless middle schooler being bullied by a bunch of ####heads.

You're off a bit on the money, Richie incognito signed a 3 year contract in 2011 for 13 million. He is UFA after this season as far as I can tell. Jonathan Martin is in the second year of his rookie contract for 4.8 million

18 million between them..pretty good coin for your 20s...

 

[KCitons]

Is it time to change the title of this thread? Was Martin bullied by Dolphin players? Or just Incognito?

 

[mr roboto]

Bill Polian (who knows a thing or two about pro football culture) on Mike and Mike said he and Dungy had some rules. No hazing. Everyone was to be considered a professional and a teammate. To become a sum greater that the parts you cannot destroy one another. Manning, Saturday, Freeney etc. were all on board and helped enforce these rules.

But the keyboard jockeys here clearly know better than that.

You're one of those jockeys my friend. You're just on one side of the fence.

The second stuff like this happens you clowns run and pick sides than post aritcles and quotes from people who support your side than hop on your soap box. .

Here's a thought, how about actually accepting that you know nothing about the locker room culture of an NFL locker room, or any locker room. How about realizing that there's two sides of the fence. Some teams haze. Some don't. Some players are fine with it. Some arent. It's unreal in here sometimes with the amount of BS you have to read when stuff like this happens. The bottom line is that you simply don't understand. You've made that known over the past couple of pages. Just accept it and move on.

You really are dense aren't you. I'm quoting a 6 time GM of the year. Did you play in the NFL? I 'understand' how it is in some locker rooms. I'm saying its not necessary, and like Abe said, it's not even a positive. But keep pounding caveman.

I never played in the NFL and I know it. Knowing that, I have no need to quote and tell others how it needs to be or should be, like you continue to do. Seriously, how many days does this go on? Keep quoting those who agree with you, so long as their resume says their opinion is the only opinion because it jives with what you believe something should be like.

You're a jockey as well. One that isnt even sure what F;ing race he's running in.

I know exactly the race I'm running. My only point is that the bull#### meme of 'you don't understand, everything is different, NFL locker rooms are different/special/unique and no one can comment on it if you don't get it' is just a cop out. I'm sorry, but it is. You know what workplace is truly unique? The military. They actually need to be a team, life and death on the line. You know who isn't special? NFL players. They play a violent game for lots of money.

 

[Josh the FunkDOC]

Here's a nice article well worth reading. From a former Marine who served in Iraq, comparing the military and the NFL in terms of hazing policies:

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/11/5/5065834/jonathan-martin-richie-incognito-dolphins-rookie-hazing

 

[Doug B]

And these desk jockeys will be very eager to investigate all the tax-free benefits the Dolphins' veterans have been recieving from the rookies. Incognito's pain is only beginning.

 

[mr roboto]

Here's a nice article well worth reading. From a former Marine who served in Iraq, comparing the military and the NFL in terms of hazing policies:

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/11/5/5065834/jonathan-martin-richie-incognito-dolphins-rookie-hazing

Yea, but he's never been in an NFL locker room. So he doesn't get it.

 

[Dondante]

What's the problem with handling this in-house? And why do you people get off on these situations like you do? One extreme incident shouldn't have enough power to shift a culture but you bottom-feeding I-warriors and entitlement slugs won't let it go. Is Incognito a class A piece of garbage? Sure. Should it matter outside of the Dolphin locker room? Not even a little.

 

[Touchdown There]

"Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of s---. I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [i want to] s--- in your f---ing mouth. [i'm going to] slap your f---ing mouth. [i'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. F--- you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."

[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]Interpretation of caveman-redneck speak:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]What's up bro? Saw you on twitter, you've been training for 10 weeks. You looking like a beast. But I still got you rookie. I'm going to show you how it's done when camp starts.[/SIZE]

Incognito seems like a jerkoff. But a death threat? Give me a break.

My interpretation was that because of Hard Knocks, Incognito felt that Martin was not properly hazed his rookie year. There was the protection of the HBO cameras during his first camp. Anyone else have a take on "you're still a rookie"?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I never played in the NFL and I know it. Knowing that, I have no need to quote and tell others how it needs to be or should be, like you continue to do.

There are a bunch of desk jockeys in Washington that can and will tell the NFL how it needs to be in locker rooms. The NFL locker room is not some sacrosanct place where anything goes -- it is a workplace, and now with the spotlight shining bright ... it will be treated as one going forward by the powers that be. The culture can and will change, and it will do so on a dime.

They also care about players health as well. Specifically concussions. :universaljerkoffmotion:

 

[Doug B]

Should it matter outside of the Dolphin locker room? Not even a little.

Disagree .... it stopped being a in-house affair when it graduated to extortion and workplace harrassment. This wasn't a hazing incident, or a bullying incident, or a prank-gone-wrong incident. It's also not merely Incognito-vs-Martin, either, like everyone seems to think it is.

The problem with handling it in-house is that "the house" wasn't in control.

 

[Concept Coop]

What's the problem with handling this in-house? And why do you people get off on these situations like you do? One extreme incident shouldn't have enough power to shift a culture but you bottom-feeding I-warriors and entitlement slugs won't let it go. Is Incognito a class A piece of garbage? Sure. Should it matter outside of the Dolphin locker room? Not even a little.

I don't think anyone has suggested it shouldn't have been handled in-house. We don't know what attempts were made, by whom, and to what extent.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I am not condoning anyones behavior but I stopped reading after #2 and you should have stopped after the bolded.

Not many here know both sides and/or who the actual victim is. I sure as hell ain't taking the word of a voicemail's TEXT, from April, as gospel and proof that thsi guy was bullied. If it was as bad as he states there would be a TON of proof, from a ton of people. Right now it seems like Martin just won the one man race to the hilltops. With Richie's reputation and this being a PR nightmare the Dolphons had no choice but to suspend him

there has been proof from a number of sources dating back from Incognito's high school and college days that this guy is a total ##### nozzle and has bullied people on every team he has been on. But don't let that stop your chest beating and explaining to everyone here how big of a man you are.

Hey Mr T, question for you. Most of the folks who are passionately defending not just Jonathan Martin but "Bullying" in general because this is a hot topic in the media right now and we have had children jumping off roofs with the evolution of social media, Martin a 6 foot 5, 320 lb man has been turned into a defenseless child by some posters. I swear there s a question coming.

Most of the passionate posters form that camp seem to want to want to make it personal or there is a pattern of going after the posters who are simply trying to look at both sides, the coaching, ownership, leadership, etc. I don't see anyone defending Richie Incognito directly, in fact I have way more posts in this thread than anyone by a long shot and I have posted Incognito is a POS several times, I have tweeted directly to Incognito GTFOMIAMI, for some reason he hasn't responded, go figure. My point to all this and the question I have for you is why do some of the folks who are crusading in here against bullying doing the very thing they are speaking out against?

It's like anyone that doesn't wear their "stop bullying" ribbon is going to be bullied and the focus of an intense attack from certain posters in here. That is the very thing that some of you are passionately defending and then turning around and wanting to bully and do the exact opposite of what they are speaking out about. Isn't that hypocrisy?

Why should any poster go after me for example? Why? I'm not in this thread attacking 1 single poster but I have had several already want to make it personal and get into the 1-up game, that's a form of bullying because they cannot simply state their position on the matter and have enough confidence that will hold without some tearing down of another member here.

I've not gone after 1 poster in here but I have had a few, certainly not the majority but a few posters who want to attack me. That's bullying to try and get me to shut up. now it's a small scale thing and I have the right to put folks on ignore if I really want to but why should I have to do that?

I would like to see the folks who are passionately defending the social bullying to realize that just because someone is more focused on Owner/GM/Coach over the individual player does not mean they are defending Richie Incognito because you are right in saying he has a long history of being a complete jerk and every other name in the book you can throw at him. He's a schoolyard bully and the pattern continues with him as he walks thru life.

 

[Doug B]

They also care about players health as well. Specifically concussions. :universaljerkoffmotion:

And the NFL is workig feverishly to change the culture to minimize concussions. What's your point? That the NFL can't be externally guided to make culture changes?

See also "Lisa Olson, Zeke Mowatt".

 

[fruity pebbles]

Here's a nice article well worth reading. From a former Marine who served in Iraq, comparing the military and the NFL in terms of hazing policies:

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/11/5/5065834/jonathan-martin-richie-incognito-dolphins-rookie-hazing

Yea, but he's never been in an NFL locker room. So he doesn't get it.

He delusional if he doesn't think hazing still goes on in the military as well. So maybe he doesn't.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I'm kind of new to the whole story--anyone find it weird/odd that Martin still has a voicemail from April?

Nope. Honestly, if anyone ever threatened to kill me or harm a family member I'd absolutely save it and record any convo that ever took place after that. I'd be building a case from the second I got a message like that.

I think we may be reading the VM differently.

You should try reading it in English.

I read it with a grinI could be wrong but I read it like that. Some read it like a lunatic, which is fine as well since no one knows how it was meant. The audio would clear up a lot regarding the VM

I can understand how Incognito meant that as mostly joking stuff. The video with him bouncing around the pool tables shows that he uses the N bomb as a familiar term (Pouncey was there and everyone was fine with it), but if he's been screwing with Martin for a while and Martin doesn't like it, it doesn't matter how Incognito meant the message. I also think Incognito didn't really care how Martin took it, but that's my armchair psychology talking. Ultimately, how Martin took the message is more important than how Incognito meant it, and if Martin doesn't like being talked to like that, that's what flies. I can bet you that Goodell and a judge will see it Martin's way.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I didn't pay you a compliment a thank you is not necessary

You really are dense aren't you.

Can you guys just state an opinion or POV without the put downs?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

"Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of s---. I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [i want to] s--- in your f---ing mouth. [i'm going to] slap your f---ing mouth. [i'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. F--- you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."

[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]Interpretation of caveman-redneck speak:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]What's up bro? Saw you on twitter, you've been training for 10 weeks. You looking like a beast. But I still got you rookie. I'm going to show you how it's done when camp starts.[/SIZE]

Incognito seems like a jerkoff. But a death threat? Give me a break.

My interpretation was that because of Hard Knocks, Incognito felt that Martin was not properly hazed his rookie year. There was the protection of the HBO cameras during his first camp. Anyone else have a take on "you're still a rookie"?

The VM was left prior to the next draft, so apparently Incognito was trying to squeeze every day of roookieness out of Martin as possible.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

You know who isn't special? NFL players. They play a violent game for lots of money.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Here's a nice article well worth reading. From a former Marine who served in Iraq, comparing the military and the NFL in terms of hazing policies:

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/11/5/5065834/jonathan-martin-richie-incognito-dolphins-rookie-hazing

Yea, but he's never been in an NFL locker room. So he doesn't get it.

He delusional if he doesn't think hazing still goes on in the military as well. So maybe he doesn't.

Yeah, hazing happens in fraternities and locker rooms. Both places full of rich, immature people that haven't experienced real world situations very often.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What's the problem with handling this in-house? And why do you people get off on these situations like you do? One extreme incident shouldn't have enough power to shift a culture but you bottom-feeding I-warriors and entitlement slugs won't let it go. Is Incognito a class A piece of garbage? Sure. Should it matter outside of the Dolphin locker room? Not even a little.

I think a lot of folks feel that way but this is going to take a life of its own IMO. We have had a lot of stories in the last couple years of bullying at the grade school level thru Twitter, Facebook, and the like so this is going to become a crusade for some folks.

 

[Dondante]

What's the problem with handling this in-house? And why do you people get off on these situations like you do? One extreme incident shouldn't have enough power to shift a culture but you bottom-feeding I-warriors and entitlement slugs won't let it go. Is Incognito a class A piece of garbage? Sure. Should it matter outside of the Dolphin locker room? Not even a little.

I think a lot of folks feel that way but this is going to take a life of its own IMO. We have had a lot of stories in the last couple years of bullying at the grade school level thru Twitter, Facebook, and the like so this is going to become a crusade for some folks.

Not the point. Bullying isn't the trend. Having someone else fight your battles is.

 

[Doug B]

I think a lot of folks feel that way but this is going to take a life of its own IMO.

But see, just because "a lot of folks feel that way" doesn't put them on the side of right. Who cares about "the way a lot of people feel"?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What's the problem with handling this in-house? And why do you people get off on these situations like you do? One extreme incident shouldn't have enough power to shift a culture but you bottom-feeding I-warriors and entitlement slugs won't let it go. Is Incognito a class A piece of garbage? Sure. Should it matter outside of the Dolphin locker room? Not even a little.

I think a lot of folks feel that way but this is going to take a life of its own IMO. We have had a lot of stories in the last couple years of bullying at the grade school level thru Twitter, Facebook, and the like so this is going to become a crusade for some folks.

Not the point. Bullying isn't the trend. Having someone else fight your battles is.

HC Philbin spoke about his kids in school the beginning of his press conference yesterday. It seems to be a driving force right or wrong.

 

[Doug B]

Martin a 6 foot 5, 320 lb man has been turned into a defenseless child by some posters.

This was never a physical issue -- Martin's size isn't relevant to the situation.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

What's the problem with handling this in-house? And why do you people get off on these situations like you do? One extreme incident shouldn't have enough power to shift a culture but you bottom-feeding I-warriors and entitlement slugs won't let it go. Is Incognito a class A piece of garbage? Sure. Should it matter outside of the Dolphin locker room? Not even a little.

I think a lot of folks feel that way but this is going to take a life of its own IMO. We have had a lot of stories in the last couple years of bullying at the grade school level thru Twitter, Facebook, and the like so this is going to become a crusade for some folks.

Not the point. Bullying isn't the trend. Having someone else fight your battles is.

Yes, we all know you'd do quite well in a lawless, despotic society.

 

[msommer]

Unfortunately this story is not just gonna be the nightly NFLN at 5:00, this is now on MSNBC, the View, lot of people who know very little about professional sports are going to weigh in with their opinion and that is gonna muddy the waters a lot here.

This will be historic in the realm of hazing and bullying. This topic was already toxic enough with modern tech and the tragedies of young people. This will be a catalyst for something. I don't know what though.

If that girl wouldn't have just killed herself over "cyber-bullying" I don't think this story would be so big.

Don't be a ####### ##### bag. It isn't funny.

He was obviously being sarcastic (in very bad taste) but has a point. There is a difference between a couple 300lb NFL players making 40 or 60 million than a helpless middle schooler being bullied by a bunch of ####heads.

You're off a bit on the money, Richie incognito signed a 3 year contract in 2011 for 13 million. He is UFA after this season as far as I can tell. Jonathan Martin is in the second year of his rookie contract for 4.8 million

18 million between them..pretty good coin for your 20s...

And more to come for Mr Martin (although maybe not for playimg tackle in the NFL). For Incognito it does not look so good right now...

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think a lot of folks feel that way but this is going to take a life of its own IMO.

But see, just because "a lot of folks feel that way" doesn't put them on the side of right. Who cares about "the way a lot of people feel"?

1st statement I agree with you, many times I am in the minority camp on a talking point in here and I'm fine with that. The 2nd statement though I disagree with, it is important when talking, debating, communicating, it's important to know what folks are feeling and where the majority or even a good chunk of folks stand on issues.

 

[Doug B]

He delusional if he doesn't think hazing still goes on in the military as well. So maybe he doesn't.

It may, but I bet it's not the same as it was before. Having on-the-books sanctions against over-the-line behavior dials hazing way back. People start having too much to lose.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Bill Polian (who knows a thing or two about pro football culture) on Mike and Mike said he and Dungy had some rules. No hazing. Everyone was to be considered a professional and a teammate. To become a sum greater that the parts you cannot destroy one another. Manning, Saturday, Freeney etc. were all on board and helped enforce these rules.

But the keyboard jockeys here clearly know better than that.

You're one of those jockeys my friend. You're just on one side of the fence.

The second stuff like this happens you clowns run and pick sides than post aritcles and quotes from people who support your side than hop on your soap box. .

Here's a thought, how about actually accepting that you know nothing about the locker room culture of an NFL locker room, or any locker room. How about realizing that there's two sides of the fence. Some teams haze. Some don't. Some players are fine with it. Some arent. It's unreal in here sometimes with the amount of BS you have to read when stuff like this happens. The bottom line is that you simply don't understand. You've made that known over the past couple of pages. Just accept it and move on.

You really are dense aren't you. I'm quoting a 6 time GM of the year. Did you play in the NFL? I 'understand' how it is in some locker rooms. I'm saying its not necessary, and like Abe said, it's not even a positive. But keep pounding caveman.

I never played in the NFL and I know it. Knowing that, I have no need to quote and tell others how it needs to be or should be, like you continue to do. Seriously, how many days does this go on? Keep quoting those who agree with you, so long as their resume says their opinion is the only opinion because it jives with what you believe something should be like.

You're a jockey as well. One that isnt even sure what F;ing race he's running in.

I know exactly the race I'm running. My only point is that the bull#### meme of 'you don't understand, everything is different, NFL locker rooms are different/special/unique and no one can comment on it if you don't get it' is just a cop out. I'm sorry, but it is. You know what workplace is truly unique? The military. They actually need to be a team, life and death on the line. You know who isn't special? NFL players. They play a violent game for lots of money.

[SIZE=medium]And we'll agree to disagree.[/SIZE]

 

[Two Deep]

Great, so were gonna lose Martin, Incognito AND Pouncey.

Christian Peter is available...

If Martin got bullied maybe a guy named Christian Peter shouldn't go to Miami.

There was a day when Christian Peter made Incognito look like Mother Theresa.

I believe it. If you are going to carry around a name of Christian Peter you better be tough.

If you aren't a co-ed, then you are reasonably safe around Peter. Serial rapist and abuser.

If that is the case he certainly isn't a Christian Peter.

 

[Doug B]

The 2nd statement though I disagree with, it is important when talking, debating, communicating, it's important to know what folks are feeling and where the majority or even a good chunk of folks stand on issues.

I can agree in a "know your adversary" kind of way ... but having numbers in agreement is not in and of itself a winning debate point. There's a right & wrong out there that stands independent of popular opinion.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

He delusional if he doesn't think hazing still goes on in the military as well. So maybe he doesn't.

It may, but I bet it's not the same as it was before. Having on-the-books sanctions against over-the-line behavior dials hazing way back. People start having too much to lose.

Question for you Doug. Does capital punishment stop violent crimes? Does tax penalties get the rich to pay their fair share or do they just skate around it?

You sem to feel if we can get some new rules in place we can curb hazing, maybe that's true. But the larger issue might be getting human beings to treat each other decent without rules in place. Why is it happening in the first place? I don't have the answers btw DB, but I don't want to rush to league wide mandates which is what I was defending in the beginning of this thread and posters were saying "Who's talking about new rules?"

Well a couple days later and 21 pages in we have a lot of folks who want to see complete changes in the NFL.

 

[Two Deep]

Several GMs chimed in today behind the scenes and they did not think highly of how Martin handled this...I believe ESPN ran that story.

Incognito can just file his retirement papers but Martin may not ever wear a uniform again either. Done in Miami, but maybe the NFL as well.

That's really sad to me, honestly, if it proves true. Dude showed up to work and did his job (well). He gave the team a chance to fix the issue and they didn't.

Nobody likes a 24 year old tattle tale/ whistle blower. Only trouble for future teams. Who is going to tell on next? Some dude may snap his jock strap and end up with a sexual harrassement lawsuit.

 

[CalBear]

Nobody likes a 24 year old tattle tale/ whistle blower. Only trouble for future teams. Who is going to tell on next? Some dude may snap his jock strap and end up with a sexual harrassement lawsuit.

Here's an idea: Don't snap his jock strap.

 

[Josh the FunkDOC]

He delusional if he doesn't think hazing still goes on in the military as well. So maybe he doesn't.

He did not say in there that hazing doesn't happen anymore. The point was that they've actually been put in a position where they have to care about this and do something about the worst abuses of it, and they have set up rules that make this a lot easier to handle properly.

I think some people here are assuming those defending Martin are on a crusade to end all forms of hazing now and forever. I haven't seen that - I've just seen support for stronger regulations against the legitimately dangerous stuff. It would have to be presented as a general "anti-hazing" policy because heavily nuanced stuff is difficult to understand, but there's no way buying Krispy Kreme for the guys would fall under this (unless they have to buy out the entire store!)

 

[Doug B]

[SIZE=medium]And we'll agree to disagree.[/SIZE]

You seriously don't think the culture of NFL locker-rooms can be changed by external forces? It can be and will. Quickly. Owners would like to avoid paying out big-dollar settlements, if they can help it. They'd also like to avoid having NFL Security and other investigative arms snooping about the premises all the time.

 

[Concept Coop]

Martin a 6 foot 5, 320 lb man has been turned into a defenseless child by some posters.

This was never a physical issue -- Martin's size isn't relevant to the situation.

Exactly. The suggestion that he less the victim due to size is archaic. The man should never have been put in a position where violence is a potential response. On top of this, a single physical altercation was very clearly not the threat.

 

[Dondante]

What's the problem with handling this in-house? And why do you people get off on these situations like you do? One extreme incident shouldn't have enough power to shift a culture but you bottom-feeding I-warriors and entitlement slugs won't let it go. Is Incognito a class A piece of garbage? Sure. Should it matter outside of the Dolphin locker room? Not even a little.

I think a lot of folks feel that way but this is going to take a life of its own IMO. We have had a lot of stories in the last couple years of bullying at the grade school level thru Twitter, Facebook, and the like so this is going to become a crusade for some folks.

Not the point. Bullying isn't the trend. Having someone else fight your battles is.

HC Philbin spoke about his kids in school the beginning of his press conference yesterday. It seems to be a driving force right or wrong.

And? He's trying to save his job. He knew who Incognito was. He probably knew exactly what he was doing, too. Hell, he probably AGREED with incognito in many ways. He probably thought incognito was a punk but understood his importance. And now he's probably going to lose his job because one player couldn't fight his own battles. This isn't elementary school. Of course, it's not war either, and I'm sure the right place to be culturally (with respect to an NFL locker room) lies somewhere in the middle. The problem I have is the nuclear overreaction and 'sanitation' of a situation that should never have been offered up for public consumption. It's not a 'community' issue, it's a bad egg and a rotten one.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Great, so were gonna lose Martin, Incognito AND Pouncey.

Christian Peter is available...

If Martin got bullied maybe a guy named Christian Peter shouldn't go to Miami.

There was a day when Christian Peter made Incognito look like Mother Theresa.

I believe it. If you are going to carry around a name of Christian Peter you better be tough.

If you aren't a co-ed, then you are reasonably safe around Peter. Serial rapist and abuser.

If that is the case he certainly isn't a Christian Peter.

Maybe his parents were going for the ironic name?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Nobody likes a 24 year old tattle tale/ whistle blower. Only trouble for future teams. Who is going to tell on next? Some dude may snap his jock strap and end up with a sexual harrassement lawsuit.

Here's an idea: Don't snap his jock strap.

They should all watch their language as well and don't "assault" any one on the field either. If you get into a fist fight in practice, or see one, please contact the local police. After all, fiights are illegal

 

[Concept Coop]

Nobody likes a 24 year old tattle tale/ whistle blower. Only trouble for future teams. Who is going to tell on next? Some dude may snap his jock strap and end up with a sexual harrassement lawsuit.

We're grown men and women, here, I assume. Have we really resorted to calling him a tattle tale? What's next? A snitch? Because we all live by this backwards pseudo-mafia code, right?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

[SIZE=medium]And we'll agree to disagree.[/SIZE]

You seriously don't think the culture of NFL locker-rooms can be changed by external forces? It can be and will. Quickly. Owners would like to avoid paying out big-dollar settlements, if they can help it. They'd also like to avoid having NFL Security and other investigative arms snooping about the premises all the time.

The only way that changes is of the culture of locker rooms changes accross the country beginning at the HS level and every one is on board and supports the change.

In short, it will be as sucessful as the war on drugs.

 

[Doug B]

Question for you Doug. Does capital punishment stop violent crimes? Does tax penalties get the rich to pay their fair share or do they just skate around it?

Neither are stopped. but both are hugely curtailed IMHO. That's well reason enough to have laws against those crimes.

You seem to feel if we can get some new rules in place we can curb hazing, maybe that's true. But the larger issue might be getting human beings to treat each other decent without rules in place. Why is it happening in the first place? I don't have the answers btw DB, but I don't want to rush to league wide mandates which is what I was defending in the beginning of this thread and posters were saying "Who's talking about new rules?"Well a couple days later and 21 pages in we have a lot of folks who want to see complete changes in the NFL.

Well, I think it's gotten past the point of discussion about whether there should be new rules. The NFL's hand is already forced, right now -- they must have new rules to combat rookie extortion and workplace harrassment (not "hazing"). Almost all teams haze in some manner (at least singing fight-songs at chow, and such), but what was going on with the Dolphins may well have been unique. Rooks paying for dinners? Common. Vets continually using rookies "as ATMs" per Adam Beasley? Not done elsewhere ... and even if it was, the Dolphins will be the league's example (cf. Saints and Bountygate).