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Domanick Davis Degenerative knee?!? (1 Viewer)

Yes, they really are... sarcasm... when's the last time a Denver runner was that amazing? Not since Olandis Gary got hurt. Dayne, Bell, Bell, and Anderson have been average
What?Olandis Gary was rubbish. He was the worst Denver RB in the entire procession of 1,000 yarders. Maybe you meant since Terrell Davis (the potential HoFer) got hurt? Even then... Clinton Portis was pretty damn amazing, too. I mean, look at what he's done in Washington. And Reuben Droughns became the first 1,000 yard rusher in what... 22 years?... in Cleveland. And I think Anderson was actually the best Denver RB not named Davis or Portis. Tatum Bell's been very good, even if he doesn't fit the scheme, and Mike Bell hasn't played a down of real football yet, so it's too early to judge him.Thanks for playing, though.
1000 yards is meaningless in a 16 games season. When is the last time DEN had an RB in the top-10? Portis, yeah but the point that he's excelled elsewhere proves he wasn't a "system" back. Whereas Droughns, Anderson, Gary fit well in the system. On the otherhand the system doesn't totally make the RB, because Bell and Dayne haven't looked super studly.So, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make by your reply to me... but, I don't think you succeeded. :bye:
Wait, your arguement is that Denver isn't that good at evaluating talent, so you ask when the last time a Denver RB was amazing. I say Clinton Portis, and apparently he doesn't count because he wasn't a "system back"?If 1,000 yards is such a meaningless statistic in 16 games (and I tend to agree there), then why is Reuben Droughns the first Cleveland Brown in almost 20 consecutive 16-game seasons to go for 1,000+? And it's not like he just went for 1,000, either- he went for 1232, which would still be a 1,000 yard season over a 14-game season, which is a more significant accomplishment.Also, both Bell and Dayne *HAVE* in fact looked super-studly in Denver's "system". They both went for 5+ yards per carry last year. Bell actually led the league in ypc. You don't think that's pretty darn good?Denver's very good at evaluating RB talent. Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis were both potential HoFers. Olandis Gary was rubbish. Reuben Droughns is clearly pretty darn good. Tatum Bell has been very successful in Denver, and I think could put up great numbers for another team willing to give him more carries. And to be honest, I think Mike Anderson was actually the best RB this side of Davis and Portis. That's a lot of quality runningbacks taken in the last 10 years, which to me indicates a pretty good judge of talent.
 
"I had a nice, long talk in the steam room with Vernand this week," Kubiak said. "I don't want him to be hesitant when he gets the ball. I want him to take the handoff, make the cut and then just cut it loose.
Favoritism by Kubiak? :unsure:

 
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I don't think Morency was anywhere close to a Kubiak favorite early on. I've been told that many of the coaches think that Morency will be the man if he can use his explosive cutting ability in the open field and not as soon as he touches the ball. Lundy is a nice runner but he doesn't have the crazy change of direction and quickness that Morency has. Lundy does have a nice slashing style and excellent balance though.

 
Thought on DD... I originally posted negatives about him before everyone jumped aboard. They might be keeping him out until the swelling goes down so he doesn't develop new scar tissue... thus meaning he would need another scope. Basically waiting for the inflammation / heat cycle to pass.

Possibly meaning he could be back to service when the swelling goes down say 4-6 weeks??

MG

 
Clarification: Back to service = he will be able to give the knee a test. In 4-6 weeks if he isn't going then this is a chronic condition.

*** There is still the possibility that they are holding back for the healing / swelling to disapear. As this causes scar tissue which will require another scope if its out of control ***

MG

 
Clarification: Back to service = he will be able to give the knee a test. In 4-6 weeks if he isn't going then this is a chronic condition. *** There is still the possibility that they are holding back for the healing / swelling to disapear. As this causes scar tissue which will require another scope if its out of control ***MG
MGKeep posting please. Some guys were giving you crap, but your experience is good stuff.
 
Morency proves he can go full speed aheadBy RICHARD JUSTICECopyright 2006 Houston Chronicle ST. LOUIS — Vernand Morency jumps and jukes, dances and darts. He dashes left, dives right. Catch him if you can. He arrived at Oklahoma State a few generations after Barry Sanders and brought some of the same dazzling moves. He averaged almost 6 yards per carry for his career.His physical gifts have never been an issue. His speed, vision and balance say he should succeed in the NFL.Problem is, his style isn't what Gary Kubiak wants in a Texans running back. Kubiak wants fewer dance steps, not more."It's difficult to do what we ask him to do because that wasn't his style," Kubiak said.He wants backs who trust the blocking, who run the play the way it's drawn up. One cut and go. North and south, not east and west. Simple, right?Well, no. Morency has never run that way. His style is to approach the line of scrimmage deliberately and feel for the opening. He moves left and right, right and left.One of the questions of this training camp was where Morency fit. Could he run the Denver offense? Could he discipline himself to trust the play? Had the Texans wasted a 2005 third-round pick on him?He got his opportunity Saturday night, and on an evening the Texans had a long list of things to be pleased about in a 27-20 victory over St. Louis, that list began with the second-year running back.Morency inserted himself into the competition at his position by rushing for 95 yards on 11 carries and catching three passes for 19 yards. He scored two touchdowns, including one on a highlight-reel 43-yard run in the third quarter.On that play, he did what the Texans have been asking him to do. He took the handoff, turned straight downfield and went through a huge hole on his way to the end zone.This is the guy the Texans probably thought they'd never get. They surely didn't think Morency could change a lifetime of habits.Because he did, the Texans can look at this position differently. They have no idea what they're going to get from Domanick Davis, and the more they see of the kids, the more intrigued they have to be
 
Light at end of tunnel

Last week, it was rookie Wali Lundy who made a statement. He was solid again Saturday, carrying seven times for 40 yards and catching two passes for 26 yards.

Once he departed, Morency took over the game. He followed the blocking, ran by the Rams a couple of times and looked like the guy the Texans hoped they were getting in 2005.

"You could see (Saturday night) why we've been so excited about him," Kubiak said.

Yes, it's only preseason, but a 2-0 start matters for a team that was 2-14 last season.

If you don't think it matters, you weren't there last year when Dunta Robinson seethed with anger and frustration after a loss in Baltimore. You weren't there when each Sunday brought another disappointment, when there never seemed there'd be a light at the end of the tunnel.

All of a sudden, there's a light. With Eric Moulds and Jeb Putzier, with David Carr settling down after a shaky start, the Texans look like a team on the verge of becoming more than decent on offense.

And there's Morency.

"I'm fighting every single day," he said. "A performance like this makes me want to go back and work even harder. We had some awesome blocking."

When the Texans began researching him before the '05 draft, they got an assessment from an Oklahoma coach.

"Best back in the Big 12," he said. "He was the toughest for us to defend."

That statement was surprising because Cedric Benson was considered the Big 12's best back. Morency had a tough rookie year, carrying just 46 times. If Davis had been able to practice this summer, he wouldn't be getting this much of an opportunity.

On the day last spring that Kubiak decided to pass on Reggie Bush and take Mario Williams, people in the draft room said he seemed confident he'd come up with enough of an offense to score points.

Hey, it's a start

Kubiak seems occasionally defensive about the conventional wisdom around the NFL that the Denver offense can turn any back into a 1,000-yard rusher.

He would like you to know how gifted late-round picks such as Terrell Davis are and how hard they worked to be great with the Broncos. He wants no one to think it's easy.

Yet because some late-round picks made it look easy in Denver, Kubiak might be more open to giving unheralded runners a chance. In these two preseason games, he has looked primarily at a third-round pick (Morency), a sixth-round rookie (Lundy) and a rookie free agent (Chris Taylor).

They've made plays and helped the Texans win two straight games for the first time in their history. No one will remember these two games once the regular season begins.

But for the players who lost so much last season, for young guys such as Morency and Lundy, it seems significant. It seems like something to build on.
 
I'm starting to believe that Dom Davis isn't going to provide much value this year.

Even if he returns to the lineup early in the season, he won't be in game shape for at least 3-4 weeks from the point of his return. And he's not practicing or running at this time. So even if he returned today, does anyone actually believe he would be the starter on opening day? I think the best case scenario is that he will be useless from a fantasy standpoint until at least October.

The worst case scenario is that he will have chronic knee problems all season and be in and out of the lineup or a gametime decision. He may not even play at all. I just don't see how this guy is getting drafted in Round 2. I wouldn't touch him until the 5th round at this point..

 
Its definitely a shame. So are we saying that Morency is going to be the number 1 or will it be Lundy?

Lundy is available in my league...would love to snag him :)

 
Well... the upside is this. Most people assumed knee surgery and the 2nd scope was a minor deal. It never is. And in DDs case he had swelling and soft tissue problems that occur in 5% of knees surgically repaired. He might of had an unpublished bloodclot ( that only happens 3-5% of time ) or something that held back the rehab and required the 2nd process. So DD would essentially be the bad luck lotto winner for knees.

DD had a 2nd surgery... and the reason was to correct the swelling, etc... that being the case the surgery was undergone because they believed it would be successful and it was the best choice. The fact that they are not pushing him onto it is a good thing. It means they are giving it time to heal. NOW LISTEN here.. the ACL is HEALED... there should be no concerns there. Its the soft tissue structure surrounding the knee thats inflammed. When the scoped it 2nd time they removed scar tissue that was formed from inflammation and gunking up the joint.

I read news that he had started running the other day and looked good sprinting. The swelling / scarring is a cycle with a knee. Swelling and heat = scar tissue = eventually another scope = chronic.

If that cycle breaks and his knee isn't swelling too bad.. then DD could return. I thought this was promising. I'm putting a 3-4 week time table on it. If he starts testing the knee again and they say swelling.. this is going to be chronic and he will sit.

I'm bumping his stock up just a smidgen with the positive reports about sprinting and the fact that coach is smart enough to let swelling subside and heal. He is STILL a RISK. Give this 3-4 more weeks. Houston better be glad that there is a top 5 ortho there that they are probably consulting.

MG

 
my biggest fear with Domanic Davis is that I don't think he has even practiced since November. This guy who has already been labeled as brittle has not put on pads and been hit by anything in 9 months.... that is a long time to be away from the field.. Sadly for DD the Texans running game stayed very competitive with Wells and Morency last year when he was out< i'm afraid that if he doesn't make an impact soon, Kubiak and co. are going to have to plan on him not being there.

secondly, with the new zone-blocking scheme there must be some kind of adjustment period for DD..

 
my biggest fear with Domanic Davis is that I don't think he has even practiced since November. This guy who has already been labeled as brittle has not put on pads and been hit by anything in 9 months.... that is a long time to be away from the field.. Sadly for DD the Texans running game stayed very competitive with Wells and Morency last year when he was out< i'm afraid that if he doesn't make an impact soon, Kubiak and co. are going to have to plan on him not being there.secondly, with the new zone-blocking scheme there must be some kind of adjustment period for DD..
New offensive scheme + no practice + degenerative knee = decent shot that whomever wins the starting job could possibly keep it for the season. I'm not endorsing either lundy or morency yet, but I'm absolutely not touching DD anywhere close to his ADP.
 
I will agree. If we don't see anything in 3-4 weeks. Then my bet will be him being a role player that is healing.... or... an extended abscence where we won't see him until Oct... atleast thats how I will draft him.

But... I'm giving it 3-4 first. Report about running on that type of knee was positive. The problem with DD hanging on at "half speed" from a fantasy football view is that this becomes RBBC. If not already.

MG

 
Morency has never run in the zone-blocking scheme..and it's taken some time for him to get used to being able to make the one cut and run.. I would think that DD would be up against a similar learning curve

 
Well... DD was a graduate from LSU right? He is decently familiar with zone blocking scheme because they utilize the stretch play which requires zone blocking.

All things considered I think you can knock atleast 15-20% off his projected stats. As time goes forward I'll be knocking more off because I'm not getting answers to the questions we're all asking.

MG

 
Morency has never run in the zone-blocking scheme..and it's taken some time for him to get used to being able to make the one cut and run.. I would think that DD would be up against a similar learning curve
Houston has been using a zone blocking scheme for the past two seasons.
 
Well... he is probably in shape from rehabbing and cardio wise from an extensive swimming rehab. Now.. I'm more concerned about the pounding / agility / football shape. I've been listening for comments about that and haven't heard any.

They said sprinting.. which infers to me straight ahead uniform running.

 
This was published on the 20th:

However the running back situation shakes out, Kubiak envisions a rotation of two backs during the regular season in an effort to keep his backs fresh. That also works to minimize the fantasy potential of Houston's running backs.

.. AND ...

Head coach Gary Kubiak talked about the progress of Davis (knee), who was inactive for Saturday's preseason game at St. Louis. "Domanick Davis progressed, he ran last week and came out of that positive. He is in here having treatment [sunday, Aug. 20]. We will see where he is at [Monday]. To say that you will see him all of a sudden this week, I don't think that is going to happen right away. I think the next step is to get him on the practice field and we will go from there," said Kubiak.

(Updated 08/21/2006).

Does Kubiak have a scheduled interview session?

MG

 
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Well... he is probably in shape from rehabbing and cardio wise from an extensive swimming rehab. Now.. I'm more concerned about the pounding / agility / football shape. I've been listening for comments about that and haven't heard any.They said sprinting.. which infers to me straight ahead uniform running.
Sprinting can include 60/30s and 60/90s as well as stop and goes.I am only guessing like anyone else based on what information I can find which is limited.However I think the chicken littles are blowing DDs issues out of proportion. Davis can play. I agree he needs to get hit and play with pads on again. We dont know what a solid hit on his knee might do. But the physical therapy should have made his knee stronger than it was not weaker. That is ushualy the case. I think DD has been rehabbing and saving himself for games that matter. I think he will perform well like he has before once the games are real. JMOAdjustment to the Zone Blocking is not an issue. The Texans ran the same thing last year. Kubiak is just going to improve what they were allready trying to do. From the way the running game has worked so far in preseason it looks like it will be very effective. I do think they will be more careful about not giving DD 30 touches a game like he was getting the past few years. But I expect it to be a COP situation with DD being the feature Rb and Morency/Lundy filling in.I know most disagree with me and I easily could be wrong about DD. But that is a risk I am willing to take.
 
Yes, they really are... sarcasm... when's the last time a Denver runner was that amazing? Not since Olandis Gary got hurt. Dayne, Bell, Bell, and Anderson have been average
What?Olandis Gary was rubbish. He was the worst Denver RB in the entire procession of 1,000 yarders. Maybe you meant since Terrell Davis (the potential HoFer) got hurt? Even then... Clinton Portis was pretty damn amazing, too. I mean, look at what he's done in Washington. And Reuben Droughns became the first 1,000 yard rusher in what... 22 years?... in Cleveland. And I think Anderson was actually the best Denver RB not named Davis or Portis. Tatum Bell's been very good, even if he doesn't fit the scheme, and Mike Bell hasn't played a down of real football yet, so it's too early to judge him.Thanks for playing, though.
1000 yards is meaningless in a 16 games season. When is the last time DEN had an RB in the top-10? Portis, yeah but the point that he's excelled elsewhere proves he wasn't a "system" back. Whereas Droughns, Anderson, Gary fit well in the system. On the otherhand the system doesn't totally make the RB, because Bell and Dayne haven't looked super studly.So, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make by your reply to me... but, I don't think you succeeded. :bye:
Wait, your arguement is that Denver isn't that good at evaluating talent, so you ask when the last time a Denver RB was amazing. I say Clinton Portis, and apparently he doesn't count because he wasn't a "system back"?If 1,000 yards is such a meaningless statistic in 16 games (and I tend to agree there), then why is Reuben Droughns the first Cleveland Brown in almost 20 consecutive 16-game seasons to go for 1,000+? And it's not like he just went for 1,000, either- he went for 1232, which would still be a 1,000 yard season over a 14-game season, which is a more significant accomplishment.Also, both Bell and Dayne *HAVE* in fact looked super-studly in Denver's "system". They both went for 5+ yards per carry last year. Bell actually led the league in ypc. You don't think that's pretty darn good?Denver's very good at evaluating RB talent. Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis were both potential HoFers. Olandis Gary was rubbish. Reuben Droughns is clearly pretty darn good. Tatum Bell has been very successful in Denver, and I think could put up great numbers for another team willing to give him more carries. And to be honest, I think Mike Anderson was actually the best RB this side of Davis and Portis. That's a lot of quality runningbacks taken in the last 10 years, which to me indicates a pretty good judge of talent.
Why is it even a Dom Davis Thread gets turned into a DENVER RB thread with SSOG???Maybe this will end it...
I got Dayne a pick later then Bush, and I would bet a lot of money that Dayne outproduces Bush by a noticeable margin this season.
Sig worthy...
 
(KFFL) HoustonTexans.com reports Houston Texans head coach Gary Kubiak discussed RB Vernand Morency's performance during the preseason game Saturday, Aug. 19. " I liked the way he got the ball downhill, which is something we've been preaching to him. Also, one of the things I was impressed with was that he struggled with pass protection in camp and understanding schemes, understanding protections and blocking schemes. He's had some mistakes, he was mistake-free in that department in the game. I thought he was very aggressive cutting people, very aggressive on a couple of blitzes. You have to be able to do that as a back, you have to be able to hold up in there against the blitz. He did some good stuff; he wore down a bit there, and I told him I want him to be able to go all day, but it was encouraging to see him play well." Kubiak did not say if Morency earned another start at running back.

 
If you watched the ESPN pregame "fantasy draft" show tonight... Dom Davis was selected in the SECOND ROUND of an 8 team draft. Do these ESPN people know something that isn't being reported -- or just worse informed than those of us on the board?

Just wondering since we all know backups who sparkle in preseason often get major hype -- when in reality -- the veterans still have the job -- they are just resting up for the real thing.

 
No... DD is having some serious knee problems. If he steps on the field and plays he will have made it through quite a bit to get there.

MG

 
So for a standard scoring league with 1/2 pt per reception and a draft this weekend, where would you rank Morency, Lundy, and DD?

 
So for a standard scoring league with 1/2 pt per reception and a draft this weekend, where would you rank Morency, Lundy, and DD?
D Davis is still a decent #2 back and a really good #3. He is being careful with his knee, but will be out there throughout the regular season. If he lasts until the mid 3rd round in a 10/12 team draft, consider it a great value. He really catches a bunch of passes so his PPR value is even higher. He should be slated behind Westbrook.As far as Morency & Lundy, they are almost worthless. Even if Davis doesn't start a game, no one knows which back will start in his place. And even if one of them starts, it is no guarantee that he will be the one getting the bulk of the carries in the game. It is too risky to waste a late pick on, unless Davis is declared out for X number of games. Even then, good luck picking the right guy. Plus it's not like Houston is a haven for great RB numbers.
 
So for a standard scoring league with 1/2 pt per reception and a draft this weekend, where would you rank Morency, Lundy, and DD?
D Davis is still a decent #2 back and a really good #3. He is being careful with his knee, but will be out there throughout the regular season. If he lasts until the mid 3rd round in a 10/12 team draft, consider it a great value. He really catches a bunch of passes so his PPR value is even higher. He should be slated behind Westbrook.As far as Morency & Lundy, they are almost worthless. Even if Davis doesn't start a game, no one knows which back will start in his place. And even if one of them starts, it is no guarantee that he will be the one getting the bulk of the carries in the game. It is too risky to waste a late pick on, unless Davis is declared out for X number of games. Even then, good luck picking the right guy. Plus it's not like Houston is a haven for great RB numbers.
I do not know if I could disagree more. In Davis' absence, Wells and Morency for five games put up great numbers in 2005. They averaged approx 100 total yds and a TD each game. The Texan RBs do have value. I would advise getting Morency and Lundy late and not wasting a pick on Davis. If have to choose, take Morency.

 
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So for a standard scoring league with 1/2 pt per reception and a draft this weekend, where would you rank Morency, Lundy, and DD?
D Davis is still a decent #2 back and a really good #3. He is being careful with his knee, but will be out there throughout the regular season. If he lasts until the mid 3rd round in a 10/12 team draft, consider it a great value. He really catches a bunch of passes so his PPR value is even higher. He should be slated behind Westbrook.As far as Morency & Lundy, they are almost worthless. Even if Davis doesn't start a game, no one knows which back will start in his place. And even if one of them starts, it is no guarantee that he will be the one getting the bulk of the carries in the game. It is too risky to waste a late pick on, unless Davis is declared out for X number of games. Even then, good luck picking the right guy. Plus it's not like Houston is a haven for great RB numbers.
:confused: DD has always put up good numbers.

With Kubiak installing the Denver system, it would be foolish to think that Houston needs some stud RB to put up good #'s.

 
So for a standard scoring league with 1/2 pt per reception and a draft this weekend, where would you rank Morency, Lundy, and DD?
D Davis is still a decent #2 back and a really good #3. He is being careful with his knee, but will be out there throughout the regular season. If he lasts until the mid 3rd round in a 10/12 team draft, consider it a great value. He really catches a bunch of passes so his PPR value is even higher. He should be slated behind Westbrook.As far as Morency & Lundy, they are almost worthless. Even if Davis doesn't start a game, no one knows which back will start in his place. And even if one of them starts, it is no guarantee that he will be the one getting the bulk of the carries in the game. It is too risky to waste a late pick on, unless Davis is declared out for X number of games. Even then, good luck picking the right guy. Plus it's not like Houston is a haven for great RB numbers.
I do not know if I could disagree more. In Davis' absence, Wells and Morency for five games put up great numbers in 2005. They averaged approx 100 total yds and a TD each game. The Texan RBs do have value. I would advise getting Morency and Lundy late and not wasting a pick on Davis. If have to choose, take Morency.
So what you are saying is that you would rather have one of two backups or use 2 picks up instead of draft the guy who is the starter when healthy. Morency and Lundy are the kind of draft picks that get dropped outright before the season starts. I guess if you are saying you'd rather draft either Morency or Lundy with one of your last couple of picks than draft Davis as your #3 back, than I guess that makes sense.

It all comes down to whether or not you think Davis is going to miss significant time or not.

 
So for a standard scoring league with 1/2 pt per reception and a draft this weekend, where would you rank Morency, Lundy, and DD?
D Davis is still a decent #2 back and a really good #3. He is being careful with his knee, but will be out there throughout the regular season. If he lasts until the mid 3rd round in a 10/12 team draft, consider it a great value. He really catches a bunch of passes so his PPR value is even higher. He should be slated behind Westbrook.As far as Morency & Lundy, they are almost worthless. Even if Davis doesn't start a game, no one knows which back will start in his place. And even if one of them starts, it is no guarantee that he will be the one getting the bulk of the carries in the game. It is too risky to waste a late pick on, unless Davis is declared out for X number of games. Even then, good luck picking the right guy. Plus it's not like Houston is a haven for great RB numbers.
I do not know if I could disagree more. In Davis' absence, Wells and Morency for five games put up great numbers in 2005. They averaged approx 100 total yds and a TD each game. The Texan RBs do have value. I would advise getting Morency and Lundy late and not wasting a pick on Davis. If have to choose, take Morency.
So what you are saying is that you would rather have one of two backups or use 2 picks up instead of draft the guy who is the starter when healthy. Morency and Lundy are the kind of draft picks that get dropped outright before the season starts. I guess if you are saying you'd rather draft either Morency or Lundy with one of your last couple of picks than draft Davis as your #3 back, than I guess that makes sense.

It all comes down to whether or not you think Davis is going to miss significant time or not.
you said above that Davis would be a decent RB 2 or RB3. From what we know now, Davis would be very risky as a RB2, and probably too risky as a RB3. For reference purposes, Wells in his 4 games as a starter and Morency for his one start averaged more fantasy points per game (in those 5 games combined) than did Davis. So, yes, I would very much advocate taking Lundy and Morency and not Davis. And, no way is anyone dropping Morency before the season starts with the way Davis' knee has been holding him out of action for many months.
 
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you said above that Davis would be a decent RB 2 or RB3. From what we know now, Davis would be very risky as a RB2, and probably too risky as a RB3. For reference purposes, Wells in his 4 games as a starter and Morency for his one start averaged more fantasy points per game (in those 5 games combined) than did Davis. So, yes, I would very much advocate taking Lundy and Morency and not Davis. And, no way is anyone dropping Morency before the season starts with the way Davis' knee has been holding him out of action for many months.
I would be very surprised if Davis isn't the week 1 starter. All he is doing right now is making sure he is as healthy as he can be for that game (much like Tomlinson). Sure his knee is jacked a little, but it was last year all season as well. I'm sure you'd agree that when he plays, he'll be better than either of the other guys. I counted on him last year as my #2 in a 12 team PPR league and won the league. Guys who are good but get hurt are better than guys that play but underperform.Here's the bottom line IMO. If Davis is declared ready for week 1 and I have him on my roster, I will play him as my 3rd back. If Morency or Lundy were on my team and Davis was out for week one I would not start either of them because you have no idea what you will get or even if either guy will carry enough of the load to put up any decent #'s. Then even if they perform, once Davis is healthy they're back to the bench. What good would either be unless Davis is done for the year?So in order for Morency or Lundy to be worth any fantasy value, 2 things have to happen:1)Davis has to miss significant time2)One of the two has to beat out the other one outright as the starterFor Davis to have value all that needs to happen is he needs be healthy enough to play.My $$$ is on Davis getting healthy.
 
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you said above that Davis would be a decent RB 2 or RB3. From what we know now, Davis would be very risky as a RB2, and probably too risky as a RB3. For reference purposes, Wells in his 4 games as a starter and Morency for his one start averaged more fantasy points per game (in those 5 games combined) than did Davis. So, yes, I would very much advocate taking Lundy and Morency and not Davis. And, no way is anyone dropping Morency before the season starts with the way Davis' knee has been holding him out of action for many months.
I would be very surprised if Davis isn't the week 1 starter. All he is doing right now is making sure he is as healthy as he can be for that game (much like Tomlinson). Sure his knee is jacked a little, but it was last year all season as well. I'm sure you'd agree that when he plays, he'll be better than either of the other guys. I counted on him last year as my #2 in a 12 team PPR league and won the league. Guys who are good but get hurt are better than guys that play but underperform.Here's the bottom line IMO. If Davis is declared ready for week 1 and I have him on my roster, I will play him as my 3rd back. If Morency or Lundy were on my team and Davis was out for week one I would not start either of them because you have no idea what you will get or even if either guy will carry enough of the load to put up any decent #'s. Then even if they perform, once Davis is healthy they're back to the bench. What good would either be unless Davis is done for the year?

So in order for Morency or Lundy to be worth any fantasy value, 2 things have to happen:

1)Davis has to miss significant time

2)One of the two has to beat out the other one outright as the starter

For Davis to have value all that needs to happen is he needs be healthy enough to play.

My $$$ is on Davis getting healthy.
I sure would like to see any substantiation of the sentence bolded above. All I have read is that he cannot practice. This means he still has to get into shape. He still has to learn the new offense. You can look in the other several threads on this topic for links and articles disagreeing with your sentence.Can Davis play in at least half of the games? Sure. But, I doubt that it is the first half.

 
this is the last article I can find:

Texans | Kubiak discusses D. Davis' progress

Published Sun Aug 20 9:13:00 p.m. ET 2006

(KFFL) HoustonTexans.com reports Houston Texans head coach Gary Kubiak discussed RB Domanick Davis' (knee) progress. "Domanick Davis progressed, he ran last week and came out of that positive. He is in here having treatment today [sunday, Aug. 20]. We will see where he is at tomorrow. To say that you will see him all of a sudden this week, I don't think that is going to happen right away. I think the next step is to get him on the practice field and we will go from there," said Kubiak.

 
how about this one:

Domanick Davis could miss start of season

Published Tue Aug 15 10:49:00 a.m. ET 2006

(Rotoworld) Coach Gary Kubiak acknowledged that Domanick Davis may not be ready for the season.

Impact: "Shoot, if he's full speed in Week 4 or 5, he's going to help us, but we hope to get him back a lot sooner than that," Kubiak said. Added GM Rick Smith, "There's a chance his knee may never feel like it did before the injury." Yikes. Davis will continue to slide down our cheat sheets. He's likely to be drafted way too early this season.

 
this is the last article I can find:Texans | Kubiak discusses D. Davis' progress Published Sun Aug 20 9:13:00 p.m. ET 2006 (KFFL) HoustonTexans.com reports Houston Texans head coach Gary Kubiak discussed RB Domanick Davis' (knee) progress. "Domanick Davis progressed, he ran last week and came out of that positive. He is in here having treatment today [sunday, Aug. 20]. We will see where he is at tomorrow. To say that you will see him all of a sudden this week, I don't think that is going to happen right away. I think the next step is to get him on the practice field and we will go from there," said Kubiak.
I know about the news reports that he's not practicing and is still trying to heal up.I will be surprised if he isn't practicing soon and isn't ready to go by week one. I could be wrong, but so could you. :P No one knows for sure yet.My whole point is even if Davis only plays in half of the games this year, what good are Morency or Lundy? Neither is the clear cut #2, neither has proven they can perform week in and week out, and niether will start when Davis is healthy. The only RB in Houston I would use up a roster spot on right now is Davis.
 
So for a standard scoring league with 1/2 pt per reception and a draft this weekend, where would you rank Morency, Lundy, and DD?
D Davis is still a decent #2 back and a really good #3. He is being careful with his knee, but will be out there throughout the regular season. If he lasts until the mid 3rd round in a 10/12 team draft, consider it a great value. He really catches a bunch of passes so his PPR value is even higher. He should be slated behind Westbrook.As far as Morency & Lundy, they are almost worthless. Even if Davis doesn't start a game, no one knows which back will start in his place. And even if one of them starts, it is no guarantee that he will be the one getting the bulk of the carries in the game. It is too risky to waste a late pick on, unless Davis is declared out for X number of games. Even then, good luck picking the right guy. Plus it's not like Houston is a haven for great RB numbers.
we just had week 2 of the pre-season games.. how do you know that one of the two won't distinguish themselves and become the lead back?? :confused: the only thing we know about DD is that he hasn't practiced since November and has a very painful knee..

 
Wannabee I am with you.

It is becoming clear to me that Davis will not be ready for the opener and probably has a shot at being put on the PUP so Houston can carry another roster spot till he returns.

Lundy and Morency make for a very interesting combo.

I really like Lundy's pass catching and burst and Morency looked great as well.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I know Lundy has adjusted very well to the zone blocking scheme and Morency is going to have to erase a lifetime of how he used to run. But he sure looked good against the happless Ram defense.

I am a DD Dynasty owner and I am not counting on him this season.

There is something very wrong although the MRI's were clear.

Thus far he is not responding to playing this repaired knee. Some players don;t respomd well to having cartlige removed, it just happens.

 
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I drafted both (Morency and Lundy) in a draft just this past Sunday. I have thought all along that Morency could be the guy, if for no other reason than the learning curve through his rookie season.

But, to be sure, this situation could pay huge dividends for fantasy owners in the long run.

 
My whole debate has been centered around the idea that if you were drafting today would you avoid drafting Davis and would you pick up Morency or Lundy? It would depend on the league, but if Davis is still available in the mid 3rd round would you still pass on him. And would you draft Morency or Lundy over guys like MBIII, DeAngelo Williams, Samkon Gado, Ron Dayne, etc.? Unless you are in a VERY deep league, they aren't worth much right now. Now if Davis isn't going to go and one of the two is named the starter for week one, then yes, they are worth something. But that has yet to happen and are suggesting we draft these two guys with no idea what is going to happen. I'm just saying calm down and if you want to avoid D Davis in your draft do, but don't act like these guys are definitely going to put up good fantasy numbers this year.

 
Jayrod, I think you might be one of a very few would take Davis over the RBs available in the 3rd .....

The RBs you are using as available at the same time is very different than any ADP data I have seen. How can these sentences be true that you wrote:

It would depend on the league, but if Davis is still available in the mid 3rd round would you still pass on him. And would you draft Morency or Lundy over guys like MBIII, DeAngelo Williams, Samkon Gado, Ron Dayne, etc.? Unless you are in a VERY deep league, they aren't worth much right now

What agenda are you pushing?

 
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My whole debate has been centered around the idea that if you were drafting today would you avoid drafting Davis and would you pick up Morency or Lundy? It would depend on the league, but if Davis is still available in the mid 3rd round would you still pass on him. And would you draft Morency or Lundy over guys like MBIII, DeAngelo Williams, Samkon Gado, Ron Dayne, etc.? Unless you are in a VERY deep league, they aren't worth much right now. Now if Davis isn't going to go and one of the two is named the starter for week one, then yes, they are worth something. But that has yet to happen and are suggesting we draft these two guys with no idea what is going to happen. I'm just saying calm down and if you want to avoid D Davis in your draft do, but don't act like these guys are definitely going to put up good fantasy numbers this year.
I'm not sure anyone is saying Lundy or Morency will be studs however in larger leagues I would definitely take one or both of them as maybe a third (depending on how solid my other two RB's are) but definitely as a 4th or 5th back and feel pretty comfortable with them.
 
I had a big money Dynasty Draft this past Sunday.

I reached(very big reach I know) on Lundi in the late 8th round because there was nothing left in the way of any quality at RB. I mean no veterans either like Dillion, Green, or Taylor. I also took Jerome Harrison as well as Brian Calhoun. Totl garbage was left so why not load up on youth and hope 1 or 2 pan out in the next 1-3 years.

I loaded up on young rookies with ton's of potential in my eyes and evaluation.

I was about to snag Morncey on the 14th round turn and he was snatched away from me buy the guy in front of me. I took Keyshawn Johnson instead( who presented great value for this year at WR) and really thought he would be there on the other side. Needless to say Iam upset about it.

However we start 2 RB's and can start a 3rd as a flex.

This is deep 12 team Dynasty and I felt Lundy and Harrison have a great chance to contribute this season and this is a PPR league.

I know I will probably have a 60/40 chance that I will regret the Lundy pick, but I took a shot and that was my only real reach in the draft.

I am not confident that Davis will be of much use this upcoming season.

 
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you said above that Davis would be a decent RB 2 or RB3. From what we know now, Davis would be very risky as a RB2, and probably too risky as a RB3. For reference purposes, Wells in his 4 games as a starter and Morency for his one start averaged more fantasy points per game (in those 5 games combined) than did Davis. So, yes, I would very much advocate taking Lundy and Morency and not Davis. And, no way is anyone dropping Morency before the season starts with the way Davis' knee has been holding him out of action for many months.
I would be very surprised if Davis isn't the week 1 starter. All he is doing right now is making sure he is as healthy as he can be for that game (much like Tomlinson). Sure his knee is jacked a little, but it was last year all season as well. I'm sure you'd agree that when he plays, he'll be better than either of the other guys. I counted on him last year as my #2 in a 12 team PPR league and won the league. Guys who are good but get hurt are better than guys that play but underperform.Here's the bottom line IMO. If Davis is declared ready for week 1 and I have him on my roster, I will play him as my 3rd back. If Morency or Lundy were on my team and Davis was out for week one I would not start either of them because you have no idea what you will get or even if either guy will carry enough of the load to put up any decent #'s. Then even if they perform, once Davis is healthy they're back to the bench. What good would either be unless Davis is done for the year?

So in order for Morency or Lundy to be worth any fantasy value, 2 things have to happen:

1)Davis has to miss significant time

2)One of the two has to beat out the other one outright as the starter

For Davis to have value all that needs to happen is he needs be healthy enough to play.

My $$$ is on Davis getting healthy.
Davis has no timeline for return Published Tue Aug 22 11:05:00 a.m. ET 2006

(Rotoworld) Domanick Davis still has no timeline to return from his knee injury.

Impact: Wali Lundy and Vernand Morency look likely to split carries in Week 1, with Antowain Smith possibly in the mix. "I think the next step is to get him on the practice field, and we'll go from there," coach Gary Kubiak said. We've moved Davis down to a late fourth round value.

 
you said above that Davis would be a decent RB 2 or RB3. From what we know now, Davis would be very risky as a RB2, and probably too risky as a RB3. For reference purposes, Wells in his 4 games as a starter and Morency for his one start averaged more fantasy points per game (in those 5 games combined) than did Davis. So, yes, I would very much advocate taking Lundy and Morency and not Davis. And, no way is anyone dropping Morency before the season starts with the way Davis' knee has been holding him out of action for many months.
I would be very surprised if Davis isn't the week 1 starter. All he is doing right now is making sure he is as healthy as he can be for that game (much like Tomlinson). Sure his knee is jacked a little, but it was last year all season as well. I'm sure you'd agree that when he plays, he'll be better than either of the other guys. I counted on him last year as my #2 in a 12 team PPR league and won the league. Guys who are good but get hurt are better than guys that play but underperform.Here's the bottom line IMO. If Davis is declared ready for week 1 and I have him on my roster, I will play him as my 3rd back. If Morency or Lundy were on my team and Davis was out for week one I would not start either of them because you have no idea what you will get or even if either guy will carry enough of the load to put up any decent #'s. Then even if they perform, once Davis is healthy they're back to the bench. What good would either be unless Davis is done for the year?So in order for Morency or Lundy to be worth any fantasy value, 2 things have to happen:1)Davis has to miss significant time2)One of the two has to beat out the other one outright as the starterFor Davis to have value all that needs to happen is he needs be healthy enough to play.My $$$ is on Davis getting healthy.
I am a Davis owner in 2 dynasty leagues and even I would admit that your money is on a very poor bet at this point.
 
Jayrod, I think you might be one of a very few would take Davis over the RBs available in the 3rd .....

The RBs you are using as available at the same time is very different than any ADP data I have seen. How can these sentences be true that you wrote:

It would depend on the league, but if Davis is still available in the mid 3rd round would you still pass on him. And would you draft Morency or Lundy over guys like MBIII, DeAngelo Williams, Samkon Gado, Ron Dayne, etc.? Unless you are in a VERY deep league, they aren't worth much right now

What agenda are you pushing?
My only "agenda" is for everyone to calm down about Davis' knee. I don't believe he is worthy of being a second or early third round pick (when he was an early 2nd rounder earlier this pre-season), but he hasn't fallen off the face of the earth and will play this year. The only question is when? I'll even concede from what I've read today that it probably won't be week 1, but no one knows for sure.If you'd read my statement a little more carefully, I was ASKING when you'd suggest drafting them, not saying anything about their ADP's (hence the ?)........So when then is it worth taking Morency or Lundy? Round 8, 10, 14...... I just wouldn't do it while guys like Gado or Dayne are available. That was my point.

BTW, I thought this forum was for discussion purposes, not attacking people with statements like "What agenda are you pushing?" That's pretty cool if you like to get that way, but it would be nice if you'd just stay on topic. I know you are a regular around here, but you could just keep it a little bit friendlier to actually encourage discussion which is the whole point.

 
Texans Being Patient With RB D. Davis

HoustonTexans.com - [Full Article]

Houston Texans head coach Gary Kubiak said on Tuesday that the team is continuing to be patient with running back Domanick Davis, not wanting to rush him back too soon as he is recovering from problems with his knee. "As I said, and I’ll continue to say, we’re going to do what’s best for him," Kubiak said. "When it’s right, he’ll be back out here. He won’t be pushed to be back out there. It’s got to be right, it’s his knee and he’ll know. We’re just trying to do everything we can for him physically and as a player.”

 
Jayrod, I think you might be one of a very few would take Davis over the RBs available in the 3rd .....

The RBs you are using as available at the same time is very different than any ADP data I have seen. How can these sentences be true that you wrote:

It would depend on the league, but if Davis is still available in the mid 3rd round would you still pass on him. And would you draft Morency or Lundy over guys like MBIII, DeAngelo Williams, Samkon Gado, Ron Dayne, etc.? Unless you are in a VERY deep league, they aren't worth much right now

What agenda are you pushing?
My only "agenda" is for everyone to calm down about Davis' knee. I don't believe he is worthy of being a second or early third round pick (when he was an early 2nd rounder earlier this pre-season), but he hasn't fallen off the face of the earth and will play this year. The only question is when? I'll even concede from what I've read today that it probably won't be week 1, but no one knows for sure.If you'd read my statement a little more carefully, I was ASKING when you'd suggest drafting them, not saying anything about their ADP's (hence the ?)........So when then is it worth taking Morency or Lundy? Round 8, 10, 14...... I just wouldn't do it while guys like Gado or Dayne are available. That was my point.

BTW, I thought this forum was for discussion purposes, not attacking people with statements like "What agenda are you pushing?" That's pretty cool if you like to get that way, but it would be nice if you'd just stay on topic. I know you are a regular around here, but you could just keep it a little bit friendlier to actually encourage discussion which is the whole point.
It is not an attack. You are the only one pushing "facts" that are not facts. That is why I asked what the agenda is. You are the only one, including the coaches, that thinks Davis will be healthy week one. In addition, you said that you would take Davis as your RB2, not anyone else has said that but you. In addition you throw out misinformation that Morency and Lundy have the same ADP as Barber or DWilliams. That cannot be further from the truth. Why would you say things so outrageous and not close to reality? That is not an attack. You said those things. Why? They are not based on fact.We are discussing the facts in this, and the other number of similar threads. But, what you are pushing is not rooted in fact. Please explain.

 

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