Doug Martin v Isiah Crowell (1 Viewer)

[xenon]

Crowell is going nearly 2 rounds earlier than Martin (based on ADP).  Is this due to the suspension? and if not for the suspension, what would Martins ADP be?  I'm not sure I buy that Martin is not guaranteed the starting spot upon his return from suspension but if one drafts him, I would think it would be a good strategy to make sure to lock up Quizz Rodgers later in the draft in case that holds true and/or at least to have a starting RB while Martin is out.  It appears as though Sims is the 3rd down back.   

Thoughts on Martin?  Who's buying.

 

[Hawkeye21]

I'm really warming up to Martin.  I think he's offering some great value because of the games he's missing.

 

[Chaka]

I'm a Martin fan but I think Crowell is simply a better running back. I would have Crow>>Martin without a suspension let alone with one.

 

[Hawkeye21]

I'm a Martin fan but I think Crowell is simply a better running back. I would have Crow>>Martin without a suspension let alone with one.

Martin has done it before and he's on the better team.  That's makes me lean toward Martin.  Getting him late in the draft is just the cherry on top.

 

[xenon]

Martin has done it before and he's on the better team.  That's makes me lean toward Martin.  Getting him late in the draft is just the cherry on top.

I;m thinking that as the season draws closer (and drafts are occurring) one might have to reach a bit for Martin..

 

[Hawkeye21]

I;m thinking that as the season draws closer (and drafts are occurring) one might have to reach a bit for Martin..

Possibly.  My snake draft is done and only have an auction left.  He's one of my targets for a cheaper RB.

 

[Chaka]

Martin has done it before and he's on the better team.  That's makes me lean toward Martin.  Getting him late in the draft is just the cherry on top.

I know he has done it before and I am actually very high on him this year (named him as one of my 3 must-have in that thread). But he has also failed epically multiple times.

Crowell has also done it before, has a better o-line, and only needs a little more volume to challenge for top five status.  To that last, while I think Cleveland is a better team this year they should still be very bad so Crow may be hindered again this year. But it isn't like Tampa Bay doesn't have a lot of mouths to feed and Martin has never really been a short yardage guy, unlike Crow.

Martin could match Crow in per game numbers but three lost games makes Crow the obvious choice IMO even at their respective ADPs.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Love Martin at his ADP, and think he outperforms, but I think he's more of a two down back as they use Sims heavily in passing situations. Crowell traditionally lost passing downs to Duke but thought Dukes usage in that area as well as overall went down as Crowell ascended last year, and thought I read they were going to leverage Crow's hands more this year. 

Crow goes slightly high for my tastes but I think I'd gamble more on Crow and upside than Martin.

 

[Biabreakable]

Doug Martin in 57 games played has averaged 17.75 rushing attempts and 3 targets per game over his career so far. He has averaged 91.9 combined yards per game and .44 TD per game

Isaiah Crowell 48 games played has averaged 11 rushing attempts and 1.85 targets per game over his career so far. He has averaged 59.5 combined yards per game and .42 TD per game.

Martin has missed 23 out 80 potential games due to injuries. 10 games in 2013 5 games in 2014 and 8 games last season.

Crowell has missed zero games.

If you account for the 3 games missed Martin should have 230 rushing attempts 39 targets 1194 combined yards 5.72 TD over 13 games.

Crowell 176 rushing attempts 952 combined yards 6.72 TD over 16 games.

The sample size for both players is enough (48 games and 57 games) that these numbers should be pretty reliable and they definitely support Martin over Crowell.

ADP as always is wrong again.

 

[Chaka]

Doug Martin in 57 games played has averaged 17.75 rushing attempts and 3 targets per game over his career so far. He has averaged 91.9 combined yards per game and .44 TD per game

Isaiah Crowell 48 games played has averaged 11 rushing attempts and 1.85 targets per game over his career so far. He has averaged 59.5 combined yards per game and .42 TD per game.

Martin has missed 23 out 80 potential games due to injuries. 10 games in 2013 5 games in 2014 and 8 games last season.

Crowell has missed zero games.

If you account for the 3 games missed Martin should have 230 rushing attempts 39 targets 1194 combined yards 5.72 TD over 13 games.

Crowell 176 rushing attempts 952 combined yards 6.72 TD over 16 games.

The sample size for both players is enough (48 games and 57 games) that these numbers should be pretty reliable and they definitely support Martin over Crowell.

ADP as always is wrong again.

Except that Crowell wasn't a full time starter until last season.  What that means for this season is anyone's guess as the team was terrible and looks to be terrible again which could limit Crow just like it did last year.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

You should draft Crowell before Martin.

Fixed.

 

[Biabreakable]

Fixed.

That is inappropriate use of the fixed schtick. I never tell people what they should do. I prefer they make up their minds for themselves.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

That is inappropriate use of the fixed schtick. I never tell people what they should do. I prefer they make up their minds for themselves.

I was having fun.  It was my way of saying shhhhh.  I like Martin, love his value.  

 

[RalphMouth]

where's Martin going recently ?  the 5th ?

 

[xenon]

Thoughts on Carlos Hyde in relation to both Crowell and Martin?  Might anybody prefer him over these two?  and if so, why?

 

[Chaka]

I take Hyde over Martin pretty quick for two reasons. First, three game suspension. Second you always want Kyle Shanahan's RB.

 

[SameSongNDance]

I take Hyde over Martin pretty quick for two reasons. First, three game suspension. Second you always want Kyle Shanahan's RB.

Why? Shanahan has only ever handed the keys over to ALMO and that was because he was a clear fit and there was no one else to challenge him. Helu was just a COP back.

In ATL Coleman forced a split. The offensive has just been so good that it was able to support both of them.

In CLE Shanahan trotted out the West/Tate/Crow RBBC.

The SF offensive more closely resembles CLE's in potentcy, Hyde has looked a bit lost to me in the ZBS and has some competition, his injury history is scary and his schedule is horrible. I'm fading him completely.

 

[Chaka]

Why? Shanahan has only ever handed the keys over to ALMO and that was because he was a clear fit and there was no one else to challenge him. Helu was just a COP back.

In ATL Coleman forced a split. The offensive has just been so good that it was able to support both of them.

In CLE Shanahan trotted out the West/Tate/Crow RBBC.

The SF offensive more closely resembles CLE's in potentcy, Hyde has looked a bit lost to me in the ZBS and has some competition, his injury history is scary and his schedule is horrible. I'm fading him completely.

At what point was Atlanta a RBBC? Freeman doubled up Coleman last year (16-13 games played) and out-touched him 338 to 89 in 2015 (15 games to 12 doesn't account for that margin of disparity).

You are forgetting Steve Slaton as well (1,600+ yards, 10 TDs).  He even made Ryan Torain relevant for 10 games in 2010.  And to just say ALMO discounts the fact that his seasons under Shanahan were by far his most relevant seasons in the NFL.

Okay, every season isn't a winner, that's a lofty expectation, but when K.Shanny has a legitimate feature back he features that back. We may disagree on whether or not Hyde fits the classification of being a feature back but I view him that way and will absolutely draft accordingly. 

I believe the same thing about the #1 WR in a K.Shanny offense, in a PPR you want his #1 WR, in a TD league they are typically over-drafted.  K.Shanny tends to either pound the ball in the endzone on the ground or he gets cute and uses his #1 WR as a decoy then hits a fullback or third TE in the flat for the TD.

Now being down on Hyde because of supporting cast and schedule is legit but I am not concerning myself with the ZBS until the games go live.  I personally don't see another threat to Hyde's touches this year.  I think it Crow made it a conversation with West in Cle, I am not sure Williams (and certainly not Breida sp?) does the same in SF.

 

[Biabreakable]

There has been several reports stating that Hyde does not look good in the ZBS this preseason and at training camp.

Not sure what to make of these observations as Hyde came from a ZBS with Ohio State and played in similar system with Chip Kelly last year

Shanahan himself stated that the scheme doesn't really matter. That a good RB will be good in any blocking scheme..

 

[xenon]

Would anybody now draft Kareem Hunt ahead of these guys?  

 

[PIK95]

Would anybody now draft Kareem Hunt ahead of these guys?  

Yes, all of them imo.

 

[Chaka]

Yes, all of them imo.

No I would not take Hunt over any of those guys.

 

[Hankmoody]

Yes, all of them imo.

No I would not take Hunt over any of those guys.

Maybe I would take Hunt over some of those guys

 

[Biabreakable]

Would anybody now draft Kareem Hunt ahead of these guys?  

I would take him over Crowell.

Doug Martin and Carlos Hyde are tougher calls. I believe in Martin and Hydes talent more than Hunt (who I do think is talented) simply because I haven't seen Hunt play at their level in the NFL yet. Maybe he can, I am not sure.

Martin will miss 3 games and Hyde has missed a lot of games due to injur, making it a closer decision. From a talent perspective I trust Martin and Hyde more at this point than Hunt, although I do think Hunt has looked good and generally performing well.

 

[-OZ-]

Would anybody now draft Kareem Hunt ahead of these guys?  

Yes, all of them imo.

No I would not take Hunt over any of those guys.

Maybe I would take Hunt over some of those guys

Not those guys, but the others. 

 

[skinsrule05]

where's Martin going recently ?  the 5th ?

The thing to remember about Martin's suspension when comparing to Crowell is that you will pick up someone else to play those weeks. They may not get Martin's average as far as points but they will get you something. 

I drafted on Friday from the 10th spot. Teams have one keeper so the actual ADP is a little skewed  

I got Martin in the 6th (pick 63). Then when it came back to me in the 7th I picked McFadden. I don't like Jaquizz so I didn't want him. Also this way I have the potential of having 2 starters. 

I believe the combination of McFadden for three weeks and Martin for the rest is much better then Crowell, who went at pick 22.  

 

[zamboni]

Love Martin at his ADP, and think he outperforms, but I think he's more of a two down back as they use Sims heavily in passing situations. Crowell traditionally lost passing downs to Duke but thought Dukes usage in that area as well as overall went down as Crowell ascended last year, and thought I read they were going to leverage Crow's hands more this year. 

Crow goes slightly high for my tastes but I think I'd gamble more on Crow and upside than Martin.

I tend to agree with STC here.

I'm a bit cautious on Martin this year. Yes, he's got the pedigree but past performance does not mean future success, as we've seen. Who knows what the coaching staff feels about Martin after his suspension, and they do seem to have a soft spot for Rodgers. If Jacquizz comes out of the gate hot, I can see them either sticking with him as the primary back or at least keeping him involved on early downs. And then you also have Simms, who if you believe the coachspeak, will be the primary 3rd down back. So that leaves Martin with likely 1st and 2nd down work, but only if Rodgers struggles out of the gate or gets hurt.

Crowell seems to be a bit more entrenched as at least the early down back - perhaps even on 3rd downs if Duke is used only sparingly.

 

[ponchsox]

While I like Martin as a value pack in rounds 5/6, I wouldn't count on him as one of your starters when he returns. I like him a lot as your first RB off the bench for injuries and bye weeks.