Downgrading LaMont Jordan (1 Viewer)

[bmattd]

The Raiders offense looks absolutely terrible, especially the first-team offensive line. I thought that maybe the first game with Philadelphia was just a instance of an inexperienced O-Line playing against a tough defensive front. But against Minnesota, the line looked just as bad, if not worse. I didn't see any holes for Jordan to run through and the QB play is terrible. I know it's early, but as a LaMont Jordan owner, I am worried. I will not take LaMont Jordan in any future drafts before the third round. I'm surprised to see that FBG has not downgraded him yet. Thoughts?

 

[CrossEyed]

The Raiders offense looks absolutely terrible, especially the first-team offensive line. I thought that maybe the first game with Philadelphia was just a instance of an inexperienced O-Line playing against a tough defensive front. But against Minnesota, the line looked just as bad, if not worse. I didn't see any holes for Jordan to run through and the QB play is terrible. I know it's early, but as a LaMont Jordan owner, I am worried. I will not take LaMont Jordan in any future drafts before the third round. I'm surprised to see that FBG has not downgraded him yet. Thoughts?

Yeah, it's the preseason. Relax.

 

[Keys Myaths]

I'm surprised to see that FBG has not downgraded him yet. Thoughts?

Yes, they have, in a big way...and they overreacted.It's the preseason.

 

[pigskinliquors]

The Raiders offense looks absolutely terrible, especially the first-team offensive line. I thought that maybe the first game with Philadelphia was just a instance of an inexperienced O-Line playing against a tough defensive front. But against Minnesota, the line looked just as bad, if not worse. I didn't see any holes for Jordan to run through and the QB play is terrible. I know it's early, but as a LaMont Jordan owner, I am worried. I will not take LaMont Jordan in any future drafts before the third round. I'm surprised to see that FBG has not downgraded him yet. Thoughts?

They did downgrade him, What's your point?

 

[PatsWillWin]

Oakland wasn't exactly the class of the AFC last season either.

 

[Big Score]

I'm surprised to see that FBG has not downgraded him yet.

Thoughts?

Can you say Oops?

 

[Bankerguy]

I bumped him down slightly as well. Will keep watching though.

 

[Two Deep]

I hope he can make his own holes because the blow/suck O-line sure as hell don't look like they can.

 

[MLBrandow]

Jordan hasn't moved anywhere in my rankings.I wasn't foolish enough to believe he'd be anywhere near 70 receptions again, but you'd be equally foolish if you don't think he'll get the ball at least 330+ times this year.Last year he had 340 touches in 14 games.A lot of those receptions will be turned into rushing attempts.Somewhere in the neighborhood of 320/35 split is about what I expect, with perhaps a slight (albeit minimal if any) gain in ypc. He should be healthy all season long, as last year was largely his "adjustment" period into the starting role.No reason to be down on him. The Raiders won't be worse than they were last year, so look to those numbers as a floor.

I hope he can make his own holes because the blow/suck O-line sure as hell don't look like they can.

230lb backs usually can help themselves a little bit.

 

[valhallan]

I haven't seen an NFL offensive line play that badly - preseason or regular season - in recent memory. So yeah, I'm a bit more wary of Raiders players than I was three weeks ago.

 

[John Mamula]

I'm surprised to see that FBG has not downgraded him yet. Thoughts?

Yes, they have, in a big way...and they overreacted.It's the preseason.

i have to say it is puzzling to me that a knowledgable group of guys would kneejerk like that.i have downgraded brooks slightly to QB9 but it surprises me to no end how people do not learn year after year to not freak out in the preseason.i expect this out of many of the posters here, but not of staff. i'd think they'd know better.

 

[pinequick]

I'm surprised to see that FBG has not downgraded him yet. Thoughts?

Yes, they have, in a big way...and they overreacted.It's the preseason.

i have to say it is puzzling to me that a knowledgable group of guys would kneejerk like that.i have downgraded brooks slightly to QB9 but it surprises me to no end how people do not learn year after year to not freak out in the preseason.i expect this out of many of the posters here, but not of staff. i'd think they'd know better.

I haven't looked at the rankings, but let's not act like running the football in preseason is just all pretend and that they aren't really trying. The Raiders have had two games, and their O-line has looked like crap. And Jordan is affected by that.At this point, what would you guys need to see that would indicate that Jordan might struggle this season? Or would nothing (outside of injury) change your impression?

 

[TinHat]

I will bump in late October

 

[John Mamula]

I'm surprised to see that FBG has not downgraded him yet. Thoughts?

Yes, they have, in a big way...and they overreacted.It's the preseason.

i have to say it is puzzling to me that a knowledgable group of guys would kneejerk like that.i have downgraded brooks slightly to QB9 but it surprises me to no end how people do not learn year after year to not freak out in the preseason.i expect this out of many of the posters here, but not of staff. i'd think they'd know better.

I haven't looked at the rankings, but let's not act like running the football in preseason is just all pretend and that they aren't really trying. The Raiders have had two games, and their O-line has looked like crap. And Jordan is affected by that.At this point, what would you guys need to see that would indicate that Jordan might struggle this season? Or would nothing (outside of injury) change your impression?

it is very difficult to gauge production when the starters were in for a series or two in the first game, and only a quarter in game 2.we essentially haven't even seen 30% of 1 game's production to make decisions on. i would rather make decisions on last year than a partial game.

 

[John Mamula]

I will bump in late October

what happens then (other than halloween)?

 

[pinequick]

I haven't looked at the rankings, but let's not act like running the football in preseason is just all pretend and that they aren't really trying. The Raiders have had two games, and their O-line has looked like crap. And Jordan is affected by that.

At this point, what would you guys need to see that would indicate that Jordan might struggle this season? Or would nothing (outside of injury) change your impression?

it is very difficult to gauge production when the starters were in for a series or two in the first game, and only a quarter in game 2.we essentially haven't even seen 30% of 1 game's production to make decisions on. i would rather make decisions on last year than a partial game.

So, in answer to the bolded part above, probably nothing (outside of injury) would change your ranking very much of a player at this point in the year?

 

[Mystery Achiever]

I'm surprised to see that FBG has not downgraded him yet. Thoughts?

Yes, they have, in a big way...and they overreacted.It's the preseason.

i have to say it is puzzling to me that a knowledgable group of guys would kneejerk like that.i have downgraded brooks slightly to QB9 but it surprises me to no end how people do not learn year after year to not freak out in the preseason.i expect this out of many of the posters here, but not of staff. i'd think they'd know better.

Dropped 0.7 spots from last week according to the Ranking Movement page. This is a huge move/overreaction?

 

[Enraged Nerfball]

I'm surprised to see that FBG has not downgraded him yet. Thoughts?

Yes, they have, in a big way...and they overreacted.It's the preseason.

i have to say it is puzzling to me that a knowledgable group of guys would kneejerk like that.i have downgraded brooks slightly to QB9 but it surprises me to no end how people do not learn year after year to not freak out in the preseason.i expect this out of many of the posters here, but not of staff. i'd think they'd know better.

I haven't looked at the rankings, but let's not act like running the football in preseason is just all pretend and that they aren't really trying. The Raiders have had two games, and their O-line has looked like crap. And Jordan is affected by that.At this point, what would you guys need to see that would indicate that Jordan might struggle this season? Or would nothing (outside of injury) change your impression?

Well, for starters how about a legit game plan that's not watered down, or vanilla. For example Moss was complaining that he was taken out in the middle of a drive on Monday night. Raise your hand if you think that happens during the season. Most teams don't open up their game plan in the preseason for good reason. They don't want to be game planned for the regular season any earlier than necessary. I expect Oakland is doing the same. I don't expect they will contend for the AFC west, but I do look for more production than we've seen.

 

[remote controller]

I have had Jordan at 9 or 10, all preseason, but now have moved him down to 11. If it were not for the injury to westy, he would be 12.

 

[doomsdaydoc]

I would downgrade him from the top 7 backs but whoever said he can wait till the 3rd round is a bit overzealous in his downgrade.

 

[FBGPoker]

I have him as a keeper and am trying to trade him to anyone that will listen.

He wasn't all that good last year, 3.8 YPC, but was used a ton.

This year the Raiders are going to be awful, which is bad for the TD total. My expert advice is that if you can get current market value for him trade him.

 

[John Mamula]

I haven't looked at the rankings, but let's not act like running the football in preseason is just all pretend and that they aren't really trying. The Raiders have had two games, and their O-line has looked like crap. And Jordan is affected by that.

At this point, what would you guys need to see that would indicate that Jordan might struggle this season? Or would nothing (outside of injury) change your impression?

it is very difficult to gauge production when the starters were in for a series or two in the first game, and only a quarter in game 2.we essentially haven't even seen 30% of 1 game's production to make decisions on. i would rather make decisions on last year than a partial game.

So, in answer to the bolded part above, probably nothing (outside of injury) would change your ranking very much of a player at this point in the year?

no, i actually mentioned in this thread that i slightly downgraded brooks to QB9 (which is still much more bullish than FBGs).i would say that my rankings for the most part are set, and that when specifically discussing jordan, i have not seen enough to make me want to downgrade him.

i actually peeled off some of his receptions from 70 to about 60 (with a small decrease in yards as well) but that change was so small it didn't change him in my rankings.

kneejerk reactions are usually emotional in nature, and not analytical. i trust my numbers more than a perception that a vanilla offense for a quarter is indicative of a RB's performance for the upcoming season.

 

[John Mamula]

I have him as a keeper and am trying to trade him to anyone that will listen.He wasn't all that good last year, 3.8 YPC, but was used a ton.This year the Raiders are going to be awful, which is bad for the TD total. My expert advice is that if you can get current market value for him trade him.

the raiders will be awful, instead of the steller record of 4-12 they had last year??people are forgetting how bad the raiders were last year i think...

 

[FBGPoker]

I have him as a keeper and am trying to trade him to anyone that will listen.He wasn't all that good last year, 3.8 YPC, but was used a ton.This year the Raiders are going to be awful, which is bad for the TD total. My expert advice is that if you can get current market value for him trade him.

the raiders will be awful, instead of the steller record of 4-12 they had last year??people are forgetting how bad the raiders were last year i think...

They were bad last year, this year they will be downright embarrassing. Also last year the coaching philosophy was to throw to the RB a ton, could be the same this year, but most likely Jordan will see a decrease in receptions.Also i can see a revolving door at QB this season between a borderline ####### and a raw QB in Walters, which messes with the flow of the offense. Collins wasn't great, but he was at least servicable and a lot more reliable than what the Raiders currently have at QB.

 

[LawFitz]

i actually peeled off some of his receptions from 70 to about 60 (with a small decrease in yards as well) but that change was so small it didn't change him in my rankings.

My friend I hate to tell you this, but Jordan won't come close to 60 receptions. He'll be lucky to break 35.Am I saying this b/c he got zero targets in two preason games? No, not really.I'm saying this b/c the new offense being installed focuses on deep WR patterns with an intermediate TE pattern as the "outlet." RBs stay in to block on the majority of plays.Add the decrease in receptions to how bad the Oline looks (and it looks VERY BAD) and you have the makings of a big time bust in Jordan at his current ADP.IF he plays 16 games, I can still see 1000-1200 yds rushing and 6-10 TDs, but cap his receptions at 35. He'll be a decent RB2, but that's about all unless the Raider line improves big time as the season progresses (which isn't out of the question either).

 

[John Mamula]

I have him as a keeper and am trying to trade him to anyone that will listen.He wasn't all that good last year, 3.8 YPC, but was used a ton.This year the Raiders are going to be awful, which is bad for the TD total. My expert advice is that if you can get current market value for him trade him.

the raiders will be awful, instead of the steller record of 4-12 they had last year??people are forgetting how bad the raiders were last year i think...

They were bad last year, this year they will be downright embarrassing. Also last year the coaching philosophy was to throw to the RB a ton, could be the same this year, but most likely Jordan will see a decrease in receptions.Also i can see a revolving door at QB this season between a borderline ####### and a raw QB in Walters, which messes with the flow of the offense. Collins wasn't great, but he was at least servicable and a lot more reliable than what the Raiders currently have at QB.

fair enough.good luck.

 

[John Mamula]

i actually peeled off some of his receptions from 70 to about 60 (with a small decrease in yards as well) but that change was so small it didn't change him in my rankings.

My friend I hate to tell you this, but Jordan won't come close to 60 receptions. He'll be lucky to break 35.Am I saying this b/c he got zero targets in two preason games? No, not really.I'm saying this b/c the new offense being installed focuses on deep WR patterns with an intermediate TE pattern as the "outlet." RBs stay in to block on the majority of plays.Add the decrease in receptions to how bad the Oline looks (and it looks VERY BAD) and you have the makings of a big time bust in Jordan at his current ADP.IF he plays 16 games, I can still see 1000-1200 yds rushing and 6-10 TDs, but cap his receptions at 35. He'll be a decent RB2, but that's about all unless the Raider line improves big time as the season progresses (which isn't out of the question either).

i'll bet you $100 that he breaks 35 receptions.we can PM Shick! and have him hold onto the :$: until the end of the season (or more likely once jordan breaks 35 receptions). please don't go turtle on me and disappear. i love free money.

 

[Aaronstory]

I haven't seen an NFL offensive line play that badly - preseason or regular season - in recent memory. So yeah, I'm a bit more wary of Raiders players than I was three weeks ago.

You obviously missed the Packers - Chargers game last week...

 

[LawFitz]

i actually peeled off some of his receptions from 70 to about 60 (with a small decrease in yards as well) but that change was so small it didn't change him in my rankings.

My friend I hate to tell you this, but Jordan won't come close to 60 receptions. He'll be lucky to break 35.Am I saying this b/c he got zero targets in two preason games? No, not really.I'm saying this b/c the new offense being installed focuses on deep WR patterns with an intermediate TE pattern as the "outlet." RBs stay in to block on the majority of plays.Add the decrease in receptions to how bad the Oline looks (and it looks VERY BAD) and you have the makings of a big time bust in Jordan at his current ADP.IF he plays 16 games, I can still see 1000-1200 yds rushing and 6-10 TDs, but cap his receptions at 35. He'll be a decent RB2, but that's about all unless the Raider line improves big time as the season progresses (which isn't out of the question either).

i'll bet you $100 that he breaks 35 receptions.we can PM Shick! and have him hold onto the :$: until the end of the season (or more likely once jordan breaks 35 receptions). please don't go turtle on me and disappear. i love free money.

No, but I'll bet you $100 that he doesn't break 60.

 

[John Mamula]

i actually peeled off some of his receptions from 70 to about 60 (with a small decrease in yards as well) but that change was so small it didn't change him in my rankings.

My friend I hate to tell you this, but Jordan won't come close to 60 receptions. He'll be lucky to break 35.Am I saying this b/c he got zero targets in two preason games? No, not really.I'm saying this b/c the new offense being installed focuses on deep WR patterns with an intermediate TE pattern as the "outlet." RBs stay in to block on the majority of plays.Add the decrease in receptions to how bad the Oline looks (and it looks VERY BAD) and you have the makings of a big time bust in Jordan at his current ADP.IF he plays 16 games, I can still see 1000-1200 yds rushing and 6-10 TDs, but cap his receptions at 35. He'll be a decent RB2, but that's about all unless the Raider line improves big time as the season progresses (which isn't out of the question either).

i'll bet you $100 that he breaks 35 receptions.we can PM Shick! and have him hold onto the :$: until the end of the season (or more likely once jordan breaks 35 receptions). please don't go turtle on me and disappear. i love free money.

No, but I'll bet you $100 that he doesn't break 60.

so much for your 35 reception cap.

 

[joffer]

definitely downgrade him, especially if you have a WCOFF satellite draft this Friday and are picking 5 thru 10. don't even touch him.

 

[LawFitz]

i actually peeled off some of his receptions from 70 to about 60 (with a small decrease in yards as well) but that change was so small it didn't change him in my rankings.

My friend I hate to tell you this, but Jordan won't come close to 60 receptions. He'll be lucky to break 35.Am I saying this b/c he got zero targets in two preason games? No, not really.I'm saying this b/c the new offense being installed focuses on deep WR patterns with an intermediate TE pattern as the "outlet." RBs stay in to block on the majority of plays.Add the decrease in receptions to how bad the Oline looks (and it looks VERY BAD) and you have the makings of a big time bust in Jordan at his current ADP.IF he plays 16 games, I can still see 1000-1200 yds rushing and 6-10 TDs, but cap his receptions at 35. He'll be a decent RB2, but that's about all unless the Raider line improves big time as the season progresses (which isn't out of the question either).

i'll bet you $100 that he breaks 35 receptions.we can PM Shick! and have him hold onto the :$: until the end of the season (or more likely once jordan breaks 35 receptions). please don't go turtle on me and disappear. i love free money.

No, but I'll bet you $100 that he doesn't break 60.

so much for your 35 reception cap.

Or your 60 floor.

 

[John Mamula]

Or your 60 floor.

where did i say it was a floor?it was my expected projection which obviously implies there is a range around it.please keep up. i do not subscribe to "leave no child behind" when discussing fantasy football.

 

[John Mamula]

definitely downgrade him, especially if you have a WCOFF satellite draft this Friday and are picking 5 thru 10. don't even touch him.

i already grabbed him 5th overall in a satellite and will likely do the same when drafting 5th in the main event in vegas.the combo of jordan/westbrook worked extremely well for us last year in the ME.

 

[wraith5]

i actually peeled off some of his receptions from 70 to about 60 (with a small decrease in yards as well) but that change was so small it didn't change him in my rankings.

My friend I hate to tell you this, but Jordan won't come close to 60 receptions. He'll be lucky to break 35.Am I saying this b/c he got zero targets in two preason games? No, not really.I'm saying this b/c the new offense being installed focuses on deep WR patterns with an intermediate TE pattern as the "outlet." RBs stay in to block on the majority of plays.Add the decrease in receptions to how bad the Oline looks (and it looks VERY BAD) and you have the makings of a big time bust in Jordan at his current ADP.IF he plays 16 games, I can still see 1000-1200 yds rushing and 6-10 TDs, but cap his receptions at 35. He'll be a decent RB2, but that's about all unless the Raider line improves big time as the season progresses (which isn't out of the question either).

i'll bet you $100 that he breaks 35 receptions.we can PM Shick! and have him hold onto the :$: until the end of the season (or more likely once jordan breaks 35 receptions). please don't go turtle on me and disappear. i love free money.

No, but I'll bet you $100 that he doesn't break 60.

so much for your 35 reception cap.

Or your 60 floor.

 

[Ducegonads]

Was surprised to see him do so well last year. I think his days of relative obscurity are over and Defenses actually consider him now, even in the pre-season. Hence his fall from grace so quickly. Bump Bump Bump. Trade now. After being ranked at the 5 / 6 spot for RB's early, his 52 week high starts to slide.

PS - Sliding things usually gain momentum....

 

[John Mamula]

nothing to see here.

 

[John Mamula]

PS - Sliding things usually gain momentum....

this is the kind of "logic" that keeps me coming to this site.

 

[The Ref]

I wouldn't be concered in a non PPR leauge. On the other hand, In PPR I would be worried.

I see him hauling down no more then 38 balls this year, and thats high side consider the O system they have run the first few weeks.

 

[LawFitz]

definitely downgrade him, especially if you have a WCOFF satellite draft this Friday and are picking 5 thru 10. don't even touch him.

i already grabbed him 5th overall in a satellite and will likely do the same when drafting 5th in the main event in vegas.the combo of jordan/westbrook worked extremely well for us last year in the ME.

I now see why you're so emotionally attached. Good luck with that bro.I had Jordan last year also and am a life-long Raiders fan. But like picking stocks, picking FF players can be dangerous when looking only in the rear view mirror. For the sake of the Raiders, I hope you are right and I am wrong.My outlook is a greater risk of injury from not just over use, but the type of pounding style Shell wants to employ combined with an Oline that looks completely lost and overmatched right now. Add to that Shell's version of the Air Coryell and the guy won't be utilized as a receiver nearly as much as he was last year. When nearly every pass play involves a seven step drop and a shaky Oline, you need both backs to stay in and block.Upside this year for Jordan in this offense is Rudi Johnson stats with maybe about 10-15 extra receptions. Not bad at all and worthy of a late 1st/ early 2nd, but the downside is much much worse if the Raider season goes downhill fast. That's why in PPR leagues, the elite WRs should go ahead of Jordan this year.All will be revealed in due time.

 

[Ducegonads]

PS - Sliding things usually gain momentum....

this is the kind of "logic" that keeps me coming to this site.

Personal insight and entertainment. Could you ask for more? Sure, but will you get it? No.

 

[Raiders Fan]

I can tell you this.. Jordan is the only person I wouldn't downgrade on the Raiders. he will get the ball. He will score.. He will lose catches for sure because Brroks doesn't seem to look for him right now when he is in trouble. That might change as the year goes on but still Jordan is 1st round worthy.

 

[bmattd]

I wouldn't be so concerned at this point in the preseason...Switiching o-line positions and learning a new offense is much like Rome, it isn't built in a day.

So when would you start being concerned? How long is the average gelling time of a new offensive line and how long til Aaron Brooks starts completing a pass instead of digging himself up out of the ground every play.

 

[LawFitz]

Jordan will be very good this year. Project him for 1,600 total yards and 10 total touchdowns. The Raider offensive line problems feedy frenzy here needs to consider that Shell has four of his lineman playing different positions from last year. Gallery is switching over to LT this year (from RT), Sims is moving in from LT to LG, McQuistan is going from LT (College) to RG, and Walker is going from LG to his more natural RT position. Confused yet? Well so are some of these lineman in the early going thus far. And Grove has only played two half seasons as a starting C. McQuistan was very agressive with his blocking against Minnesota and looked pretty good. Gallery and Grove were less than impressive, but they are the two highest DPs and more talented players along the line. Walker is a good run blocker. But Walker had trouble pass blocking the other night. The legendary ex offensive tackles that are teaching this group will get the most out of them. Give Shell, Slater and Eatman the benefit of the doubt on the switches along the line...as well as the time to make it work. Offensive line continuity and trust is a big factor in successfull NFL offensive lines. There is some versatility along that line, Walker could always go back over the LG and bring the versatile Sims over to RT. The veteran Badger has starting experience at a couple positions, as does the veteran Treu at the C position. That right side of Walker and McQuistan should open up plenty of holes for Jordan this year in due time. I wouldn't be so concerned at this point in the preseason...Switiching o-line positions and learning a new offense is much like Rome, it isn't built in a day.

The Oline's cohesiveness and effectiveness will determine whether Jordan justifies his ADP as a top ten RB again this year. I see these scenarios.Best case: Jordan's catches drop to 30-40 due to the new scheme, but his rushing yards and TDs go up, more than making up the difference as the Oline and offense gel to become as productive as the on paper talent would suggest. Rich man's Rudi; solid RB1.Mid case: Jordan's catches drop and his rushing and TD totals come close to last year (1000/10), but he sorely lags in receiving totals. Poor man's Rudi; RB2. Slight ADP bust.Worse case: The Raiders start very slow and never really come around as the team loses faith in Shell. The team is constantly behind and although you would think this would mean more catches, it doesn't b/c again, the RBs need to stay in to block thx to 7 step drops and mediocre pass protection. (800/6) RB3. ADP bust.Absolute Worst case: Jordan gets overused and hurt trying to implement Shell's power downhill running game without a competent backup to help shoulder the load. Total bust.I just don't see Jordan's ADP justifying the risk here when you can get a guy like Rudi or Caddie at the end of Rd 1 then a top WR like Smiff at the top of Rd 2. Then you follow up with a RB like fast Willie or Dunn in Rd 3.If he falls to Rd 2, then maybe, but I doubt that happens as few in your league will consider all these changes in Oakland.

 

[Islander]

I haven't looked at the rankings, but let's not act like running the football in preseason is just all pretend and that they aren't really trying. The Raiders have had two games, and their O-line has looked like crap. And Jordan is affected by that.

At this point, what would you guys need to see that would indicate that Jordan might struggle this season? Or would nothing (outside of injury) change your impression?

it is very difficult to gauge production when the starters were in for a series or two in the first game, and only a quarter in game 2.we essentially haven't even seen 30% of 1 game's production to make decisions on. i would rather make decisions on last year than a partial game.

So, in answer to the bolded part above, probably nothing (outside of injury) would change your ranking very much of a player at this point in the year?

no, i actually mentioned in this thread that i slightly downgraded brooks to QB9 (which is still much more bullish than FBGs).i would say that my rankings for the most part are set, and that when specifically discussing jordan, i have not seen enough to make me want to downgrade him.

i actually peeled off some of his receptions from 70 to about 60 (with a small decrease in yards as well) but that change was so small it didn't change him in my rankings.

kneejerk reactions are usually emotional in nature, and not analytical. i trust my numbers more than a perception that a vanilla offense for a quarter is indicative of a RB's performance for the upcoming season.

I will take the under 60 for the limit please. Thank you.