Yes, it can be a placekick or a dropkick.
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Drop kick extra point (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bostonfred
- Start date
Crazy, what someone accomplishd is what they accomplish. You don't separate them. The voters may(likely) give Moon less credit for throwing for tons of yards in the CFL and more credit for throwing for tons of yards in the NFL but they won't ignore his CFL stats.It's my understanding that no one has ever done as well as Flutie in the CFL and that he simply dominated. IF a CFL player is to make it, he will. You say this won't merit consideration and you couldn't be more wrong. It WILL be considerred. Most of us don't like it or agree with it but he's one of the more popular NFL players over the last 20 years. That too will equal consideration.1. It is called the Pro Football Hall of Fame rather than the NFL HOF because it includes the old AFL, which ultimately merged with the NFL. No one has been inducted on merits that had anything to do with other leagues (e.g., CFL, USFL, Arena Football).2. Warren Moon will be inducted based solely on his NFL accomplishments. He is currently in the top 5 all time (for NFL/AFL) in pass attempts, completions, passing yards, and passing TDs. And he made the Pro Bowl 9 times, including a string of 8 straight.Do you always laugh when you're wrong? The CFL is professional football. It's what's going to propel Warren Moon into the HOF. Why is it so inconceivable that it will happen for Flutie too?
3. Doug Flutie has no shot at the NFL/AFL HOF.
For a list of USFL players, try googling.
If Warner wins another supe, he'll have to be considerred.
Does it mean a guy will make it if he's considerred? NO but you said they wouldn't be considerred and that's just plain wrong.
"The Pro Football Hall of Fame is technically the National Football League's Hall of Fame. The building opened in Canton, Ohio, United States, on September 7, 1963, with 17 charter inductees. Through 2005, all but one of the inductees played some part of their pro career in the NFL. The lone exception is Buffalo Bills guard Billy Shaw, who played his entire career in the American Football League." -- Wikipedia
american football league only existed for 10 years
http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.jsp
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In 1986, when Marv Levy was chosen to direct the fortunes of the Buffalo Bills, he brought with him more than 30 years of coaching experience. A graduate of Coe College, Levy began his pro coaching career in 1969 as kicking teams coach for the Philadelphia Eagles before joining George Allen’s staff as a special teams coach for the Los Angeles Rams in 1970.
He followed Allen to Washington in 1971, where he served as the Redskins special teams coach for two seasons. Levy then served as the head coach of the Montreal Alouettes of the Canadian Football League for five seasons. After two CFL Grey Cup championships, Levy returned to the NFL in 1978 as head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs.
When he joined the Chiefs, the team was coming off a 2-12 season. Under his leadership, the team steadily improved, posting a 4-12 record in 1978, followed by a 7-9 season in 1979, 8-8 in 1980 and 9-7 in 1981. He left the Chiefs after a disappointing 3-6 in the strike-shortened 1982 season.
Midway through the 1986 season, following a two-year hiatus from coaching and one season as the head coach of the Chicago Blitz of the United States Football League, Levy returned to the NFL as head coach of the Bills. He finished the season with a 2-5 record. In 1987, his first full season with the Bills, the team returned to respectability with a 7-8 record and were in the playoff hunt throughout most of the season.
The following season the team posted a 12-4 record and won the first of six AFC Eastern Division titles. With his high-powered “no-huddle” offense, Levy, who has a master’s degree in English History from Harvard, went on to set a new standard for NFL coaches as he led his AFC championship team to four consecutive Super Bowl appearances.
From 1988 through 1997, the Bills were first in the AFC in winning percentage and second only to the San Francisco 49ers in the NFL. Levy, the winningest coach in Bills’ history, recorded a 112-70 regular season record and was 11-8 in the playoffs during his 11? seasons with the Bills. He was named NFL Coach of the Year in 1988 and AFC Coach of the Year in 1988, 1993, and 1995.
He followed Allen to Washington in 1971, where he served as the Redskins special teams coach for two seasons. Levy then served as the head coach of the Montreal Alouettes of the Canadian Football League for five seasons. After two CFL Grey Cup championships, Levy returned to the NFL in 1978 as head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs.
When he joined the Chiefs, the team was coming off a 2-12 season. Under his leadership, the team steadily improved, posting a 4-12 record in 1978, followed by a 7-9 season in 1979, 8-8 in 1980 and 9-7 in 1981. He left the Chiefs after a disappointing 3-6 in the strike-shortened 1982 season.
Midway through the 1986 season, following a two-year hiatus from coaching and one season as the head coach of the Chicago Blitz of the United States Football League, Levy returned to the NFL as head coach of the Bills. He finished the season with a 2-5 record. In 1987, his first full season with the Bills, the team returned to respectability with a 7-8 record and were in the playoff hunt throughout most of the season.
The following season the team posted a 12-4 record and won the first of six AFC Eastern Division titles. With his high-powered “no-huddle” offense, Levy, who has a master’s degree in English History from Harvard, went on to set a new standard for NFL coaches as he led his AFC championship team to four consecutive Super Bowl appearances.
From 1988 through 1997, the Bills were first in the AFC in winning percentage and second only to the San Francisco 49ers in the NFL. Levy, the winningest coach in Bills’ history, recorded a 112-70 regular season record and was 11-8 in the playoffs during his 11? seasons with the Bills. He was named NFL Coach of the Year in 1988 and AFC Coach of the Year in 1988, 1993, and 1995.
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Pro Football HoF Website
It's pretty clear to me that it's the NFL's Hall of Fame (and the AFL's since the AFL merged with the NFL).
It's pretty clear to me that it's the NFL's Hall of Fame (and the AFL's since the AFL merged with the NFL).
I believe there was american football league, indian football league, an american national football league, and american pro football association. The first president of the NFL whatever it was called then(the greatest athlete ever to play the game) was from the indian football league.
No actual tee can be used, but otherwise, yes.I believe all of this is true. I do have a question on this, though, since I have never seen it occur. Does the kicking team have to snap the ball like a regular play, or, since it is a free kick, can they tee it up or have it held at the LOS?
Tau837
Footballguy
I couldn't disagree more with your entire post.So what you appear to be saying is that if Moon's NFL accomplishments were good but not HOF worthy, his CFL stats would put him over the top and he would still be elected. This is not a debate that can be won, since it is an imaginary situation, but I do not believe that would happen.Crazy, what someone accomplishd is what they accomplish. You don't separate them. The voters may(likely) give Moon less credit for throwing for tons of yards in the CFL and more credit for throwing for tons of yards in the NFL but they won't ignore his CFL stats.It's my understanding that no one has ever done as well as Flutie in the CFL and that he simply dominated. IF a CFL player is to make it, he will. You say this won't merit consideration and you couldn't be more wrong. It WILL be considerred. Most of us don't like it or agree with it but he's one of the more popular NFL players over the last 20 years. That too will equal consideration.1. It is called the Pro Football Hall of Fame rather than the NFL HOF because it includes the old AFL, which ultimately merged with the NFL. No one has been inducted on merits that had anything to do with other leagues (e.g., CFL, USFL, Arena Football).2. Warren Moon will be inducted based solely on his NFL accomplishments. He is currently in the top 5 all time (for NFL/AFL) in pass attempts, completions, passing yards, and passing TDs. And he made the Pro Bowl 9 times, including a string of 8 straight.Do you always laugh when you're wrong? The CFL is professional football. It's what's going to propel Warren Moon into the HOF. Why is it so inconceivable that it will happen for Flutie too?
3. Doug Flutie has no shot at the NFL/AFL HOF.
For a list of USFL players, try googling.
If Warner wins another supe, he'll have to be considerred.
Does it mean a guy will make it if he's considerred? NO but you said they wouldn't be considerred and that's just plain wrong.
Belichick has always kept an open mind about things football. He is constantly trying new or long-forgotten ideas. Wether its having Webster Slaughter fake walking off the field only to get on the LOS at the last second and run down the field for an easy TD pass on 4th down, or playing WRs in the secondary, or having the QB drop kick an extra point. Its what Belichick does.
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
Wrong, what you pointed out he did to try and help his team win. He did this for Flutie and I have no problem with it.Belichick has always kept an open mind about things football. He is constantly trying new or long-forgotten ideas. Wether its having Webster Slaughter fake walking off the field only to get on the LOS at the last second and run down the field for an easy TD pass on 4th down, or playing WRs in the secondary, or having the QB drop kick an extra point. Its what Belichick does.
T
trader jake
Guest
too funny...fairly cool in my bookclearly flutie benefited from being able to kick a "normal" ball, rather than a "k" ball...lol
You stated that he would not be considerred, he WILL be considerred. I don't know if Flutie will get in or Moon for that matter. In regards to moon-look at Monk for whatever reason it's seems extra hard right now to get in. In regards to Flutie-again, my understanding is he was awesome in the CFL, if some CFLer will get in it will be him. Will he? Who knows. The NFL is trying to make their game worldwide with NFLE, tokyo+mexico games. It's very popular in Germany as evidenced by NFLE and TV stats they post on occasion. To some americans Canada is another country and it would be right along with this. To others it's "eh it's just Canada". Also, like it or not, he's one of the most popular football players over the last 20 years. Again, I don't know if he'll get in but he WILL be considerred. His popularity alone assures a fan writing his name in and them voting on him in the prelims.
I agree with this MT. Doug Flutie is one of my favorite players and I loved the goofiness / history aspect of the drop kick yesterday, but he's not getting in the HOF.
But wondered what you thought about Warren Moon and how folks want to throw his Canadian numbers into the discussion there.
J
Football needs to be more picky. Flutie will be more famous than someone like Steve Young. That's his legacy and it would be pretty cool to be that famous. Everyone likes the guy.The baseball hall of fame is a shrine and is for only the best (except for Pete Rose's gambling ###). Football should strive to be more exclusive like baseball.
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Hi Ham,Can you give us some examples? Who is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame that shouldn't be in your opinion?
J
Tau837
Footballguy
This is laughable. Baseball's HOF has not been reserved for elite players and contains a number of marginal players (players who were merely very good). The NFL/AFL HOF has done a much better job of electing only the very best players. Sure, there are a couple of exceptions (for example, many people would say Lynn Swann), but not many.
Man, this thread has taken many a twist and turn from the original posting/title. For what it's worth:Bill Belichick's late father, Steve, played one sesaon in the NFL: 1941.Last successful drop-kick in the NFL: December 21, 1941.Knowing how close he and his dad were, maybe it was a form of tribute also.
Tau837
Footballguy
Depends on how you define "considered." Like other names that come up every year, some voters may pause to think about his accomplishments, but that won't take long. And none of them will actually come close to voting for him. He was a journeyman average to below average NFL QB. The sum total of his significant NFL accomplishments is playing in one Pro Bowl. As others have said, his CFL accomplishments are nice, but will be discounted due to inferior competition.This argument for considering Flutie is like saying that someone who was a great AAA baseball player but didn't distinguish himself in the majors should be considered for baseball's HOF.
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
:( 4 Super Bowls, 3 Super Bowl rings, 11,000 yards and 80 receptions in his first 12 seasons. I can think of only one WR who put up better stats than that in the '80s.
The argument against Monk is that he never really had a great year. His career stats are good because of longevity, not dominance.I saw Monk play a lot and loved his game. He was really clutch on third downs. But just going by the stats, he was generally the #15-#25 WR in the league most years. Never top five, and almost never top ten.
http://pro-football-reference.com/players/MonkAr00.htm
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The problem with the whol Football Hall of Fame debate is that it really IS NOT the Pro Football Hall of Fame - it's the NFL (& Amalgamated Leagues) Hall of Fame. Which means you get the AFL, and some of the AAFC guys who came over, and ... that's it. Canada, I think has it's own football hall.Hockey's hall is multi-national, I think, not solely reserved for the NHL.Basketball's is not only international, but is not limited to just men, nor professionals nor teams who played in leagues.Baseball is primarily the leagues that make up MLB, but they have a media section, wich is separate, and may have some other wing as well.
roadeyes
Footballguy
Couple other things I noticed while watching this game and the post game-The Pats O Linemen all had huge grins when they were lining up for the play. They were saying to the Dolphins "Watch this! This will be great!" I think the Dolphins then called time out.
The Pats lined up more like a punt. Packed in tight, but not as tight as an extra point. And they were all on or very near the line. Flutie was on about the 10 yard line. Direct snap, he took a step, dropped it and kicked it right down the middle.
Short Video Here
harrycarey
Footballguy
On the drop kick does it have to bounce off the ground after you kick it or do you just drop it, let the ball hit the ground and kick it on the way back up? thanks
Aussie Cowboy
Footballguy
It's a pretty common play in Rugby Union/Rugby League. You get three points for it in Rugby Union, and the better kickers (Jonny Wilkinson) are very good at it and rarely miss up to 50 metres.Here's an example of Wilkinson kicking a "drop goal" to win the World Cup for England against Australia.
Kick
p.s. I think you need Quicktime to watch it.
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
You can't kick the ball until it touches the ground. Otherwise, it's just a punt.
Mr. Anonymous
Footballguy
I did not know this. Fascinating.Seems like the advantage of (3) over (1) is the 17 yards. I don't see the advantage of (1) if it's a free kick (no opposition).A Drop Kick and a Fair Catch Kick are two separate things. A Fair Catch Kick works like this:A. Anytime a team makes a fair catch (for any type of kick), they have the right to attempt a field goal from the spot of the catch.
B. This applies even when there is no time left on the clock (thereby giving teams the opportunity to score at the end of a half).
C. If a team elects to make a Fair Catch Kick, they can do it one of 4 ways:
1. Kick a normal field goal (complete with snapper, holder, LOS, etc.)
2. Line up in punt-style formation (with snapper, LOS, etc.) and Drop Kick the ball toward the uprights
3. Kick a FG at the exact spot of the catch (without a snapper, tee or LOS; you can still use a holder, though)
4. Make a Drop Kick at the exact spot of the catch
(had to edit because I was unfamiliar with the bold coding)
Can somebody clarify this? I find the implications of the drop kick much more interesting than the discussion of Moon (in) or Flutie (not).
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TommyGilmore
Footballguy
If option #3 requires you to kick at the exact spot of the catch, I could see how that would be difficult if the ball was caught near the sideline. I would imagine that choosing option #1 would allow you to snap the ball between the hash marks. But I couldn't find anything in the rules that states where the ball must be placed. The only reference at NFL.com is here:I did not know this. Fascinating.Seems like the advantage of (3) over (1) is the 17 yards. I don't see the advantage of (1) if it's a free kick (no opposition).A Drop Kick and a Fair Catch Kick are two separate things. A Fair Catch Kick works like this:A. Anytime a team makes a fair catch (for any type of kick), they have the right to attempt a field goal from the spot of the catch.
B. This applies even when there is no time left on the clock (thereby giving teams the opportunity to score at the end of a half).
C. If a team elects to make a Fair Catch Kick, they can do it one of 4 ways:
1. Kick a normal field goal (complete with snapper, holder, LOS, etc.)
2. Line up in punt-style formation (with snapper, LOS, etc.) and Drop Kick the ball toward the uprights
3. Kick a FG at the exact spot of the catch (without a snapper, tee or LOS; you can still use a holder, though)
4. Make a Drop Kick at the exact spot of the catch
(had to edit because I was unfamiliar with the bold coding)
Can somebody clarify this?
Otherwise, the only advantage to #1 (that I can think of) is that it allows the kicker to go through his usual "routine".
harrycarey
Footballguy
I mean does the ball have to hit the ground after you kick it or just before?
oso diablo
Footballguy
just before you kick it.
Tau837
Footballguy
It's not 17 yards saved, it's 7 yards. (The other 10 yards are in the end zone.) Still, those 7 yards could be important.I did not know this. Fascinating.Seems like the advantage of (3) over (1) is the 17 yards. I don't see the advantage of (1) if it's a free kick (no opposition).A Drop Kick and a Fair Catch Kick are two separate things. A Fair Catch Kick works like this:A. Anytime a team makes a fair catch (for any type of kick), they have the right to attempt a field goal from the spot of the catch.
B. This applies even when there is no time left on the clock (thereby giving teams the opportunity to score at the end of a half).
C. If a team elects to make a Fair Catch Kick, they can do it one of 4 ways:
1. Kick a normal field goal (complete with snapper, holder, LOS, etc.)
2. Line up in punt-style formation (with snapper, LOS, etc.) and Drop Kick the ball toward the uprights
3. Kick a FG at the exact spot of the catch (without a snapper, tee or LOS; you can still use a holder, though)
4. Make a Drop Kick at the exact spot of the catch
(had to edit because I was unfamiliar with the bold coding)
Can somebody clarify this? I find the implications of the drop kick much more interesting than the discussion of Moon (in) or Flutie (not).
FatDumbandHappy
Footballguy
Physics. Ball already has upward momentum off the ground as opposed to the punt where the momentum is downward toward the ground via gravity.Mr. Anonymous
Footballguy
Good catch. I suppose that if it's a "free" kick, the snap doesn't have to be seven yards. It could be one. That would be worth moving to the hashmark.It's not 17 yards saved, it's 7 yards. (The other 10 yards are in the end zone.) Still, those 7 yards could be important.I did not know this. Fascinating.Seems like the advantage of (3) over (1) is the 17 yards. I don't see the advantage of (1) if it's a free kick (no opposition).A Drop Kick and a Fair Catch Kick are two separate things. A Fair Catch Kick works like this:A. Anytime a team makes a fair catch (for any type of kick), they have the right to attempt a field goal from the spot of the catch.
B. This applies even when there is no time left on the clock (thereby giving teams the opportunity to score at the end of a half).
C. If a team elects to make a Fair Catch Kick, they can do it one of 4 ways:
1. Kick a normal field goal (complete with snapper, holder, LOS, etc.)
2. Line up in punt-style formation (with snapper, LOS, etc.) and Drop Kick the ball toward the uprights
3. Kick a FG at the exact spot of the catch (without a snapper, tee or LOS; you can still use a holder, though)
4. Make a Drop Kick at the exact spot of the catch
(had to edit because I was unfamiliar with the bold coding)
Can somebody clarify this? I find the implications of the drop kick much more interesting than the discussion of Moon (in) or Flutie (not).
pinequick
Footballguy
I might be remembering this wrong, but does anybody remember an NFL Films bit on the dropkick? It was sort of a tongue-in-cheek piece about some relic from a by-gone era of football. I think they featured Jim McMahon and his ability to do the drop kick. I think maybe they focused on Flutie, too?Anybody else recall this?
Serenity Now
Footballguy
While Flutie may not get serious consideration for the HOF otherwise, I think his drop kick yesterday probably netted him a little corner somewhere. At least he's going into the record books with it.
Joe Paterno
Footballguy
Don't worry, you're not the only by-gone relic to enjoy a final moment in the sun!By-gone relic? You cut me to the quick!
DropKick
Footballguy
So True.What makes this really great is I was actually at the game. Explaining who Flutie was and the whole Hail Mary thing to my daughter....Don't worry, you're not the only by-gone relic to enjoy a final moment in the sun!By-gone relic? You cut me to the quick!
"what was that?"
"It was a drop kick!"
"How many points is it?"
"One.... I think"
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
WHat Flutie did is meaningless......just another way for the national media to gush over the Patriots.
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