Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
DT Jalen Carter, PHI (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Terpman22
- Start date
Boston
Footballguy
With a talent like this it comes down to two things...one, does he love playing football...two, do his teammates trust him...if the answers are yes to both than he/his team can figure things out...if the answer to either is no there is a good chance he will end up being a distraction that wears out his welcome...there are plenty of examples of a player with red flags excelling and flaming out...as pointed out above it's a real big decision because where he will get drafted there are plenty of high quality alternatives...will be interesting to watch this unfold.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I wouldn't draft him based on his pro day alone.
There are plenty of stories of guys with huge red flags that were drafted early despite these massive red flags. This guy is one of them.
The pro day is your job interview. I know he's had a rough few months, but that is the ONE DAY you have to be prepared. And if you aren't, you maturely contact all the teams you invited and be honest with them:
"I apologize, but I am going to have to cancel next weeks pro day. The last few months have been rough and I take full responsibility for all of my actions. But I have not been able to adequately prepare for this visit. That is my fault and I will be working hard over the next few weeks to prepare myself physically and mentally for the next level."
But to show up and not do workouts and be overweight and struggle through what you did do - to me ANOTHER bad decision on a list of bad decisions.
This guy has bust written all over him and I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.
There are plenty of stories of guys with huge red flags that were drafted early despite these massive red flags. This guy is one of them.
The pro day is your job interview. I know he's had a rough few months, but that is the ONE DAY you have to be prepared. And if you aren't, you maturely contact all the teams you invited and be honest with them:
"I apologize, but I am going to have to cancel next weeks pro day. The last few months have been rough and I take full responsibility for all of my actions. But I have not been able to adequately prepare for this visit. That is my fault and I will be working hard over the next few weeks to prepare myself physically and mentally for the next level."
But to show up and not do workouts and be overweight and struggle through what you did do - to me ANOTHER bad decision on a list of bad decisions.
This guy has bust written all over him and I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Who are some red flag guys who were drafted really high and were great players?
I know a lot of later drafted guys worked out, and part of me thinks the later a red flag guy gets drafted the more likely they are to do well. I don't think it helps your sense of entitlement when you screw up a few times and still get drafted high, paid a lot, and do the circus walk on the stage
I know a lot of later drafted guys worked out, and part of me thinks the later a red flag guy gets drafted the more likely they are to do well. I don't think it helps your sense of entitlement when you screw up a few times and still get drafted high, paid a lot, and do the circus walk on the stage
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Tunsil smokes weed. They all do. I didn't even view that as a red flag at the time. I sure laughed though.
I'd have to research more on the other guys as to what their red flags were and where they were drafted.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Tunsil sort of got lucky. The domino effect has allowed him to be on a different team than he might ever have been on and he is making SO MUCH money now.
With that said, yeah smoking dope isn't the biggest of character concerns. I haven't heard anything about Carter being a bad guy other than the incident.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Ok, so a quick look.
Mathieu was a 3rd round pick. Cross him off.
Moss went pick 21. I guess he counts cause he was still a 1st rounder.
Cam stole a laptop. Meh. Dad trying to get paid in college. Meh, they all were. And now they do.
I didn't look up Sapp.
So far, to me, Carter's red flags are more red. Dangerous activities. Caught twice means he probably did it 50 times. Motor issues? Out of shape pro day?
If my team was drafting top 10, I'd prefer to pick a different high quality player to be honest.
And as I said, I think some character guys might actually do worse the higher they are drafted, so not sure how to navigate that path.
Mathieu was a 3rd round pick. Cross him off.
Moss went pick 21. I guess he counts cause he was still a 1st rounder.
Cam stole a laptop. Meh. Dad trying to get paid in college. Meh, they all were. And now they do.
I didn't look up Sapp.
So far, to me, Carter's red flags are more red. Dangerous activities. Caught twice means he probably did it 50 times. Motor issues? Out of shape pro day?
If my team was drafting top 10, I'd prefer to pick a different high quality player to be honest.
And as I said, I think some character guys might actually do worse the higher they are drafted, so not sure how to navigate that path.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
"Bad" guy or not, road racing and/or driving super fast is worse than drunk driving IMO. And he clearly had done it before, and probably many times.
Terpman22
Footballguy
That is your opinion. And in my view, I disagree. Drunk driving is far worse than "driving super fast" and that is OK. You don't want whoever your team is to take a chance on him. My team, has the 10th pick coming off a Super Bowl L and we won't be in the top 10 again very soon, so the risk to me is worth it. We have the locker room and leadership to hopefully keep him in line and a good citizen. Fletcher Cox is a big race car/drag racing guy. Maybe he could show him the ropes of doing this sort of thing legally and how fun it can be.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I'm not basing anything I say here due to any team bias. I never do. If he fell to my Browns at 42, sure, take him. If they passed, I'd understand.
I see flags that, to me personally, are red, and there's more than one. The pro day might even be the worst one. THAT is how he handles adversity?
I see flags that, to me personally, are red, and there's more than one. The pro day might even be the worst one. THAT is how he handles adversity?
Terpman22
Footballguy
Adversity and depression probably aren't the same thing. Having an injury to deal with, your family members sick, or something of the like I'd consider "adversity"
Being indirectly responsible for the death of a couple teammates/Coaches to me would be more on the "depression" spectrum in my personal opinion.
Now, no one is saying he is full blown in depression, but would anyone be surprised if he was?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Surprised? No.
Surprised if he never fully recovered emotionally? Also no
I would be willing to say that all of these guys drive fast and "race" their buddies in some manor. I can almost guarantee that a high percentage of these guys drive too fast and do stupid things while driving (I am sure a high percentage of people on this board have also done those things). The unfortunate aspect that the person that was also racing with him ended up getting in an accident and dying shines a light on this but that doesn't mean that most of the other guys being considered as top picks haven't' done this. It just means they weren't unlucky.
This is a terrible situation and it is bad someone died but the actual action of what was done isn't uncommon. I could think of much worse actions that would be much bigger red flags than driving fast.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
He has other red flags as well.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
The street racing thing to me isn't as huge a red flag as for others- but it did bring back memories of Jerome Brown (RIP). He was drafted #10, too, IIRC.
Leaving the scene of an accident, when he may have been questionable for a DUI? That was seriously poor judgment, but again, I can forgive a young man with a lot on the line for panicking in that situation.
To me the worst offense (from a 'Do I want this guy on my team?' perspective) is that ridiculous performance at his Pro Day. That says to me this young man doesn't have a strong support system- nobody in his circle is holding him accountable and giving him solid advice. He is being coddled and enabled to act like a spoiled diva. And he likely has nothing but sycophants around him looking to cash in on his immense talent. I don't want a guy like that on my team. I could be completely off-base, but that's my take just from watching the media circus unfold. I'd be nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs to draft a guy like that with a top 10 pick.
I hope for his sake he grows up and pulls his head out of his 4th point of contact, though.
Leaving the scene of an accident, when he may have been questionable for a DUI? That was seriously poor judgment, but again, I can forgive a young man with a lot on the line for panicking in that situation.
To me the worst offense (from a 'Do I want this guy on my team?' perspective) is that ridiculous performance at his Pro Day. That says to me this young man doesn't have a strong support system- nobody in his circle is holding him accountable and giving him solid advice. He is being coddled and enabled to act like a spoiled diva. And he likely has nothing but sycophants around him looking to cash in on his immense talent. I don't want a guy like that on my team. I could be completely off-base, but that's my take just from watching the media circus unfold. I'd be nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs to draft a guy like that with a top 10 pick.
I hope for his sake he grows up and pulls his head out of his 4th point of contact, though.
massraider
Footballguy
That's where I come out.
If there's other stuff we don't know about, fine, pass on him. But he plays the rarest position in the league. DTs that make an impact are so rare. In this draft, with no other blue chip players there (well, Bijan) it's worth the risk.
I don't view the street racing as a major red flag. Dumb 20-something stuff. Like if a drunk college kid gets in a bar fight. It happens, you wish it didn't. I am not sure a bad pro day means one of the top 3 players in the draft should slip out of the top 10.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Sounds like we got some guys in here who used to do some street racing, lol.
Understood. I am saying for me, the driving incident isn't a red flag. Reading through this thread it seems to be such a big deal that people are crossing him off the board because of these "legal troubles".
The pro day inadequacy is a much bigger deal to me but I am not sure it is that big of deal either. I weigh actual game play much more than drill work. I get it was the "job interview" so not being prepared is a flag as it shows he didn't take it serious but the longer he falls in the draft the better I think he will perform in the NFL. Great talents that fall tend to get slapped in the face and get the chip on their shoulder which can shake the immaturity of not taking pro-days, off field stuff, etc and turn them around. Basically, I am much more willing to take the chance down the draft board then being a top 5 pick for the chip factor keeping him in line
Chaka
Footballguy
In before "Yeah, but he has so much to lose!"
As if you didn't. You had more to lose actually, Carter is still going to be a millionaire in a couple weeks.
Terpman22
Footballguy
I think you have made your point. You don't like him, hes a giant red flag, yadda yadda yadda. Not sure what this comment means, is it:
"well if you like street racing you show more sympathy to a guy who made a couple really bad decisions"
Not me. I speak on experience, and it wasn't street racing. Being involved in a wreck when *people die* isn't something you easily get over, and to each person, they heal and deal with depression in a multitude of ways. These guys are not robot athletic entertainers. They are young men, who often have "dealt with adversity" their entire lives, leading up to college football. Just saying, I get it personally if he was out of shape, not in the right mental state, etc. There are far more important things than football we often forget.
Last edited:
Chaka
Footballguy
The real issue for the Raiders, unfortunately, is Henry Ruggs. No way they draft Carter without that being the overarching storyline for...ever?
ETA: Even though Ruggs as a cautionary tale may make the Raiders a perfect landing spot for Carter, that won't be the story.
massraider
Footballguy
This is pretty much also where I come out.
Not the same thing as Biletnikoff's daughter, and Davis' feeling on domestic abuse, but I see the parallel.
Driving like a jerk, we have pretty much all been there.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Not sure many of the folks in these threads would be mature enough to handle playing professional sports.
massraider
Footballguy
I've met a lot of pro athletes, you overestimate their maturity.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Man, the jokes are just not landing today.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Yeah it's not maturity holding us back, it's physicality.
Chaka
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
I think the scary things for GMs about Carter is that they essentially hitch their wagon to the kid in one way or another.
They have all the resources in the world to dive into his red flags. GM makes the call that they are no big deal and red flags continue, the GM looks bad. GM says red flags are too much, pass on him and he has a great career, looks poorly on the GM as well.
It's not hard to see why some GMs like to opt for "safer" picks.
They have all the resources in the world to dive into his red flags. GM makes the call that they are no big deal and red flags continue, the GM looks bad. GM says red flags are too much, pass on him and he has a great career, looks poorly on the GM as well.
It's not hard to see why some GMs like to opt for "safer" picks.
massraider
Footballguy
We don't have the same info they do.
We are going on about his pro day, but every team has talked to the Georgia strength coach. If he tells them the kid is a worker, they're gonna go with that. If he tells them the kid needs to be pushed, they go with that.
If we found out the Cardinals told him, "you a lock at #3 for us, don't go blowing out an ACL before the draft", I would believe it.
Deamon
Footballguy
Good point, that could be in play here.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
A team would actually listen to what a college players strength coach tells them?
Chaka
Footballguy
Nah, they'd plug their ears and yell "LALALALALALQLALALALALALAICANTHEARYOULALALALALALAL!!!"
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I would also talk to the school cafeteria lady to see if he tried to get free seconds on everything.
massraider
Footballguy
For real?
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Maybe I’m misremembering, but weren’t there several games this last year where he had to keep coming out of the game due to being out of breath and tired even though he was playing fairly limited snaps already?
massraider
Footballguy
I truly also believe that these “red flags” matter less because of the position he plays, and who he is.
Aaron Donald wasn’t this highly rated. Maybe Dareus. I have to go back to Suh.
If this is a guard, or a linebacker, eh, maybe we go safer pick, and we will get a guard or a linebacker somewhere else. There’s no getting another one of these, maybe for several years.
Aaron Donald wasn’t this highly rated. Maybe Dareus. I have to go back to Suh.
If this is a guard, or a linebacker, eh, maybe we go safer pick, and we will get a guard or a linebacker somewhere else. There’s no getting another one of these, maybe for several years.
Chaka
Footballguy
Joking aside, and I am sure.you saw this up thread, but apparently one of his "character concerns" was that he used his scholarship food money to buy a walk on teammate food.
What a monster.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Detroit News beat writer Justin Rogers on how the Lions feel about Jalen Carter
Sounds like the Lions are out on Carter. Has nothing to do with red flags or his legal issues, formed this opinion before the misdemeanor warrant. It's just one guys opinion, he doesn't offer anything concrete or direct quotes, just his sense of the undercurrent of how the Lions view the prospect. Rogers called "questions about his football character."
What he is saying here tracks though. Campbell gave a presser at the Combine and said he'd interviewed about 35 players so far, and had about 15 more to go. Of those, "4 of them got it." For Holmes and MCDC, players who get their culture are passionate about ball, can break down a play and their role, have a passion to master their craft, etc. They've said it a thousand times, guy can have all the talent in the world but if he doesn't love ball then he's not a good fit.
Again, just one beat writers opinion, this isn't a leaked report and doesn't come from Allen Park.
Sounds like the Lions are out on Carter. Has nothing to do with red flags or his legal issues, formed this opinion before the misdemeanor warrant. It's just one guys opinion, he doesn't offer anything concrete or direct quotes, just his sense of the undercurrent of how the Lions view the prospect. Rogers called "questions about his football character."
What he is saying here tracks though. Campbell gave a presser at the Combine and said he'd interviewed about 35 players so far, and had about 15 more to go. Of those, "4 of them got it." For Holmes and MCDC, players who get their culture are passionate about ball, can break down a play and their role, have a passion to master their craft, etc. They've said it a thousand times, guy can have all the talent in the world but if he doesn't love ball then he's not a good fit.
Again, just one beat writers opinion, this isn't a leaked report and doesn't come from Allen Park.
Chaka
Footballguy
Okay but he didn't say which four guys "got it" and even if he did are we to take anyone at face value during misinformation season?
Okay MCDC may be the one coach who can't help but be honest, But still...
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
You're not misrembering, it happened.
This dude is the ultimate risk/reward pick in this draft. He could either be the best player in the draft or get 'fat and happy ' and be a dud. After his pro day I know which way I'm leaning.
Chaka
Footballguy
From your lips to God's ear, I hope six NFL GMs feel this way.
I am not confident he will be the next Aaron Donald (those dudes are unicorns) but he's the only one who could be since AD was drafted.
He's worth the risk.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
He is more Suh than AD. I mean AD was slept on, people didn't think he was top 3-5-10 level special.
Also as good as Carter has been, Suh had a way better college career and was a far better DT prospect than Carter.
massraider
Footballguy
Not from what I have read. Think you are really underselling what people have been saying about Carter for two years
Chaka
Footballguy
And Suh was a dominant NFL player...AND head case.
And it is important to note that Suh had a 5 season NCAA career (53 to 35 career NCAA games). After 3 seasons, which is where Carter is, the argument over who was better may favor Carter.
ETA: To be fair, in their equivalent age year (2008 & 2022) Suh was far more dominant. Like, world's better. In their equivalent season years (2007 & 2022) Carter was better for the most part but it wasn't by a a huge margin.
Not saying Suh's redshirt year was so hugely beneficial but, it didn't hurt his college production to get that extra year of practice against better than HS competition.
Last edited:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Suh was one of the most decorated players in CFB history. Doesn’t mean he was considered a better prospect (whatever that means) but if there was an award he won it.
AP CFB Player of the Year
Bronko Nagurski Trophy
Chuck Bednarik Award
Lombardi Award
Outland Trophy
Heisman finalist
#2 overall pick
Similar threads
