DT Jalen Carter, PHI (1 Viewer)

[Chaka]

Please fall to 7. Please.

I would be his huckleberry

You do that. I'll be his personal driver.

 

[Ilov80s]

I get that but drafting a guy who is so depressed he’s possibly screwing up a once in a lifetime opportunity doesn’t exactly get me excited.

Dude, come on, two people he knew died.

I am not faulting him for being depressed, feeling guilty, etc. That is a totally normal reaction. He should feel that way. I am not sure if I want to spend a top 10 pick on a guy who is depressed though. Sorry, but it's true.

 

[Ilov80s]

Sure maybe he's as good as those guys on paper. But if you show up unprepared and out of shape in what should be the physical prime of your life to one of the most important days of your life, that speaks volumes. Suh, Sapp, Donald are all hyper competitive, like Michael Jordan nasty level drive. Does Carter have that same drive? To me that is the biggest question mark.

Excuse me, but Sapp had the cocaine question on draft night, Andrea Kramer asked him live if he did blow, and we can look back on it now like he was bulletproof, but he was not. Someone was down the bar instead of a message board saying "hey where there's smoke there's fire, i don't want a guy like that on my team, he can't even keep his nose clean before the biggest job interview of his life" and on and on.

Not for nothing, but a bunch of **** gets smeared on some of these kids before the draft every year, and I think it's fairly nasty. Maybe tap the brakes on calling out the work ethic of a kid and dismissing several years of knocking people around in the SEC because we read he was out of shape. It's totally fair to add it to the pile of good and bad as we guess if someone is going to be good, but this kind of feels like a thread people have pulled on really hard.

Sapp was considered a possible top 5 pick and fell to 12. So teams were concerned about him. Turns out they were wrong to be but the worry over him was expressed in his draft slot.

 

[rockaction]

I love when the anti-authority/stick-it-to-the man type of people rush to the defense of a guy who clearly has benefitted from preferential treatment by authority to put him where he is.

Seems awfully ironic.

 

[rockaction]

YOU'RE NOT STICKING IT TO THE NFL OR THE ESTABLISHMENT THAT FOLLOWS IT, GUYS. THEY'RE MAKING A LIKELY CRIMINAL A MULTI-MULTI MILLIONAIRE.

 

[Chaka]

I love when the anti-authority/stick-it-to-the man type of people rush to the defense of a guy who clearly has benefitted from preferential treatment by authority to put him where he is.

Seems awfully ironic.

Wat?

 

[Chaka]

YOU'RE NOT STICKING IT TO THE NFL OR THE ESTABLISHMENT THAT FOLLOWS IT, GUYS. THEY'RE MAKING A LIKELY CRIMINAL A MULTI-MULTI MILLIONAIRE.

Gah?

 

[massraider]

Gosh, I hope Carter doesn't shoot anyone before the draft.

 

[Chaka]

Gosh, I hope Carter doesn't shoot anyone before the draft.

I doubt he'd do that again, this week.

 

[Largent]

I hope Carter drops, and to a team that will afford him the stage and surrounding talent that he can use that "slight" by teams to get a chip on his shoulder. Perhaps that's what he needs to match the talent with the desire. If he goes top 5 and get's 20mill + signing bonus and 30mill guaranteed who's going to tell him " see, you got what you thought - so NOW go get in shape".

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I hope Carter drops, and to a team that will afford him the stage and surrounding talent that he can use that "slight" by teams to get a chip on his shoulder. Perhaps that's what he needs to match the talent with the desire. If he goes top 5 and get's 20mill + signing bonus and 30mill guaranteed who's going to tell him " see, you got what you thought - so NOW go get in shape".

Thanks for posting back in here, I appreciate the full view and you as well as others have done a great job asking questions and basing your opinions a lot on what has happened off the field, that's not unfair. In some cases like Sapp it was mostly about marijuana rumors, fast forward 20-25 years and it's hard to fathom they made such a stink about it.

I feel there are valid points to explain the low snap count as a n example. It is disturbing he would show up to a workout out of shape.
The dude has special skills and like others have mentioned, has the ability to wreck havoc. I can see why Philly would like to make him their new DLine Centerpiece and they have the capital to move up and get him if they desire. I think Detroit is also looking long and hard at what he could do to enhance their defense and what might happen if they pass and he lands on Philly.

This is why we discuss this stuff and hash it out as we come up to the draft.

 

[Terpman22]

I get that but drafting a guy who is so depressed he’s possibly screwing up a once in a lifetime opportunity doesn’t exactly get me excited.

Dude, come on, two people he knew died.

I am not faulting him for being depressed, feeling guilty, etc. That is a totally normal reaction. He should feel that way. I am not sure if I want to spend a top 10 pick on a guy who is depressed though. Sorry, but it's true.

To each their own. People battling depression don't often have it "all the time" but is a work in progress. Lane Johnson has been pretty open about, yes, he did miss a few games to manage it, but he also is arguable the best offensive tackle in football. I think the days of "being tough/sucking it up" with things regarding mental health are kind of gone by the way side and a sort of archaic thinking as a real big factor into talent evaluation. Now, with Lane, that is his only issue to judge him by right now if you must. Admittedly/obviously there are a lot of red flags regarding Carter's decision making and perhaps character, just don't think "being depressed" should be a factor in holding him back from being a great player.

 

[rockaction]

Gosh, I hope Carter doesn't shoot anyone before the draft.

Gosh, I hope he doesn't exceed 110 mph on public roads while drag racing, which luckily results in ONLY THE DEATHS OF CERTAIN PARTICIPANTS IN THE RACE and not the deaths of innocents.

Good work sticking up for the guy and minimizing what he did. The Georgia Police have nothing on favoritism on your player fornicating.

 

[rockaction]

I mean, who hasn't drag raced on a public main road exceeding a hundred and had deaths result from it?

Par for the course.

And then ran from the police at the scene.

But-but-but-players and narratives.

Sounds about right.

 

[Chaka]

You okay @rockaction ?

Sincere question.

 

[rockaction]

You okay @rockaction ?

Sincere question.

I'm fine. Long night. My seventy-eight year-old father fell down a full flight of stairs and I was in the hospital.

But my point stands. We sometimes let our narratives and constructs about player/mgmt/society take precedence over certain legitimate questions. This young man was drag racing. It resulted in people dying. He fled the scene when police arrived. His friends were dead. If he weren't a football star in his home state with lax laws, he'd be in prison now.

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

Which leads me to the narrative. Is he a pampered football star or a victim of an unseemly press and the NFL's snooping? Right now, he's being compared to Laremy Tunsil and Warren Sapp. But those guys weren't involved in potential vehicular manslaughter.

Let's not let our own narratives color the facts. That's what I'm getting at.

 

[Chaka]

You okay @rockaction ?

Sincere question.

I'm fine. Long night. My seventy-eight year-old father fell down a full flight of stairs and I was in the hospital.

Sorry about your father man, that sucks.

As someone with parents a little older I sincerely hope he has a speedy and meaningful recovery.

 

[rockaction]

Sorry about your father man, that sucks.

As someone with parents a little older I sincerely hope he has a speedy and meaningful recovery.

He's being discharged within the half hour because the MRI was clean but thank you so much for your thoughts, man. Sorry I was a little worked up. It was to prove a point, though. Probably bad writing on my end. I think I was able to separate the two, though I'm not sure that's fully possible.

Take it as a bad night and morning on my end.

 

[Chaka]

You okay @rockaction ?

Sincere question.

I'm fine. Long night. My seventy-eight year-old father fell down a full flight of stairs and I was in the hospital.

But my point stands. We sometimes let our narratives and constructs about player/mgmt/society take precedence over certain legitimate questions. This young man was drag racing. It resulted in people dying. He fled the scene when police arrived. His friends were dead. If he weren't a football star in his home state with lax laws, he'd be in prison now.

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

Which leads me to the narrative. Is he a pampered football star or a victim of an unseemly press and the NFL's snooping? Right now, he's being compared to Laremy Tunsil and Warren Sapp. But those guys weren't involved in potential vehicular manslaughter.

Let's not let our own narratives color the facts. That's what I'm getting at.

This is mostly spot on. I think the part of the narrative that you are excluding is that he was a 21 year old, entitled kid when the accident happened. Doing stupid, potentially dangerous stuff at that age is hardly uncommon. I think we can all look back on our lives and wonder how we walked away from situations, we put ourselves into, unscathed.

Carter committed a stupid and illegal act by drag racing and he doubled down by, initially, and illegally, fleeing the scene. But this wasn't murder. Carter did not kill those two people, I think some fail to make that distinction. He was not an accessory to their deaths either. He was racing, he ran. Those are his crimes.

Did he get off light? Probably. Does he deserve to be in jail? Decidedly, no. This was a non-violent offense, jails have enough people who don't belong in them.

Is he a bad person? I have no idea but I'm not willing to cast that final judgment on a person's life at age 22 (now) particularly after he had such a life altering experience.

 

[Chaka]

Sorry about your father man, that sucks.

As someone with parents a little older I sincerely hope he has a speedy and meaningful recovery.

He's being discharged within the half hour because the MRI was clean but thank you so much for your thoughts, man. Sorry I was a little worked up. It was to prove a point, though. Probably bad writing on my end. I think I was able to separate the two, though I'm not sure that's fully possible.

Take it as a bad night and morning on my end.

I can dig it and it was pretty obvious something was up. That's why I asked.

Give your father my best.

"Hey pop, some rando from the internet named Chaka...yes, Chaka. Yeah, it's actually called TikTok and, no I don't think he's one of those guys. Anyway Chaka send his best...yes, Chaka. C-H-A-K-A...nevermind let's go get some lunch."

 

[rockaction]

Decidedly, no. This was a non-violent offense, jails have enough people who don't belong in them.

This is the only thing I quibble with. Both the common law and the Model Penal Code (the theoretical code we learn to juxtapose against the common law and statutory law in law school) seek criminal penalties for either recklessness or even negligence. Hence criminal recklessness or criminal negligence as terms of art.

Whether this rises to it is a question for the district attorney's office, and they have decided not to charge him. That's really all we can say.

I think they're being lax. You think they're acting appropriately.

We both probably have different ideas about jails (though I'm no tough-on-crime-to-be-tough-crime kind of guy. I'm for freeing almost all drug offenders that aren't violent and am for freeing most non-violent people except for repeated property crime recidivists). I'm not sure how I feel about public recklessness of this sort.

It just seemed some are reflexively condemning him and some were rushing to defend. Such is a message board. Such is life.

 

[rockaction]

Give your father my best.

Despite your funny joke later, I will do so. They're used to me saying that "The internet says...". I don't see why it should be any different here.

 

[Ilov80s]

I get that but drafting a guy who is so depressed he’s possibly screwing up a once in a lifetime opportunity doesn’t exactly get me excited.

Dude, come on, two people he knew died.

I am not faulting him for being depressed, feeling guilty, etc. That is a totally normal reaction. He should feel that way. I am not sure if I want to spend a top 10 pick on a guy who is depressed though. Sorry, but it's true.

To each their own. People battling depression don't often have it "all the time" but is a work in progress. Lane Johnson has been pretty open about, yes, he did miss a few games to manage it, but he also is arguable the best offensive tackle in football. I think the days of "being tough/sucking it up" with things regarding mental health are kind of gone by the way side and a sort of archaic thinking as a real big factor into talent evaluation. Now, with Lane, that is his only issue to judge him by right now if you must. Admittedly/obviously there are a lot of red flags regarding Carter's decision making and perhaps character, just don't think "being depressed" should be a factor in holding him back from being a great player.

I am supportive of people dealing with issues getting help and everything but from the business side of it, I just don’t know if that’s how I would want to invest a premium asset. We’ve seen rookies get off to slow starts to their careers and never get out from behind the 8 ball. Of course pro athletes can deal with depression and be great. Others can’t. I don’t know which Carter is but the pro day is the last piece of info I have on him and it wasn’t good.

 

[Terpman22]

I get that but drafting a guy who is so depressed he’s possibly screwing up a once in a lifetime opportunity doesn’t exactly get me excited.

Dude, come on, two people he knew died.

I am not faulting him for being depressed, feeling guilty, etc. That is a totally normal reaction. He should feel that way. I am not sure if I want to spend a top 10 pick on a guy who is depressed though. Sorry, but it's true.

To each their own. People battling depression don't often have it "all the time" but is a work in progress. Lane Johnson has been pretty open about, yes, he did miss a few games to manage it, but he also is arguable the best offensive tackle in football. I think the days of "being tough/sucking it up" with things regarding mental health are kind of gone by the way side and a sort of archaic thinking as a real big factor into talent evaluation. Now, with Lane, that is his only issue to judge him by right now if you must. Admittedly/obviously there are a lot of red flags regarding Carter's decision making and perhaps character, just don't think "being depressed" should be a factor in holding him back from being a great player.

I am supportive of people dealing with his getting help and everything but from the business side of it, I just don’t know if that’s how I would want to invest a premium asset. We’ve seen rookies get off to slow starts to their careers and never get out from behind the 8 ball. Of course pro athletes can deal with depression and be great. Others can’t. I don’t know which Carter is but the pro day is the last piece of info I have on him and it wasn’t good.

For sure I feel you there. Its a crap shoot/dice roll either way in the end. Lots of questions like "how hard will this guy work once he finally gets life changing money" etc factor into it all. Adding more questions like "is he depressed, is he a bad person, is he just an overall knucklehead that never will make good decisions" as well, and honestly can understand your point. There is a debarkations line of "ok this is too much of a risk due to these many X factors" other than "How good a football player he might be"

 

[Chaka]

I think they're being lax. You think they're acting appropriately.

I'm not saying the penalty is appropriate or not. I am not sure what the max penalties are for his two counts but, I would be fine with hitting the max, sans jail time if that is indeed proscribed, for those two counts. Max fine, max probation, max community service but I would hate to see this be a jailable offense.

If they could throw additional charges at him that would increase those restitutions I would probably support that as well.

But, imo, this isn't involuntary manslaughter, negligent homicide or depraved indifference (thank you Jack McCoy). So I don't see jail as an option here.

I am not sure how the charge reads in Georgia but when I got my reckless driving charge in Los Angeles at age 17 (doing 98 in a 45 with my friend and his 12 year old brother) it was "Willful and wanton disregard for human life and or property". I never saw the inside of a jail cell, let alone a prison. I assure you I was not a star athlete nor did I come from money.

 

[Deamon]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

 

[Max Power]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

Its the racing that crosses the threshold. If two cars are racing and someone gets hurt, in many states both parties are at fault.

 

[Ilov80s]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

Its the racing that crosses the threshold. If two cars are racing and someone gets hurt, in many states both parties are at fault.

As it should

 

[Deamon]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

Its the racing that crosses the threshold. If two cars are racing and someone gets hurt, in many states both parties are at fault.

What states and what would the punishment be for that? You're saying in this exact scenario, a person would be placed in jail in some states?

 

[Max Power]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

Its the racing that crosses the threshold. If two cars are racing and someone gets hurt, in many states both parties are at fault.

What states and what would the punishment be for that? You're saying in this exact scenario, a person would be placed in jail in some states?

There are a lot of results on google showing the spectrum of charges and punishments. It seems like it depends on what the state laws are and what a DA charges. Common answer for a street race that results in a death is a penalty of no less than 1 to no more than 20 years in prison.

I just saw an article on a local story where two people were racing, one died and the other was charged with involuntary manslaughter.

If you're looking for some form of catch all answer, the best I could do...

In most states, the penalties for street racing, exhibition of speed, and reckless driving are more serious if the offense resulted in bodily harm to or the death of another person.

These types of aggravated circumstances can elevate a street racing charge (or related offense) to a felony and result in thousands of dollars in fines and a number of years in prison.

The offender could also face felony vehicular assault or manslaughter charges. LINK

 

[Deamon]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

Its the racing that crosses the threshold. If two cars are racing and someone gets hurt, in many states both parties are at fault.

What states and what would the punishment be for that? You're saying in this exact scenario, a person would be placed in jail in some states?

There are a lot of results on google showing the spectrum of charges and punishments. It seems like it depends on what the state laws are and what a DA charges. Common answer for a street race that results in a death is a penalty of no less than 1 to no more than 20 years in prison.

I just saw an article on a local story where two people were racing, one died and the other was charged with involuntary manslaughter.

If you're looking for some form of catch all answer, the best I could do...

In most states, the penalties for street racing, exhibition of speed, and reckless driving are more serious if the offense resulted in bodily harm to or the death of another person.

These types of aggravated circumstances can elevate a street racing charge (or related offense) to a felony and result in thousands of dollars in fines and a number of years in prison.

The offender could also face felony vehicular assault or manslaughter charges. LINK

It seems that all these results are if the injury/death is someone that is IN your vehicle, no?

 

[Max Power]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

Its the racing that crosses the threshold. If two cars are racing and someone gets hurt, in many states both parties are at fault.

What states and what would the punishment be for that? You're saying in this exact scenario, a person would be placed in jail in some states?

There are a lot of results on google showing the spectrum of charges and punishments. It seems like it depends on what the state laws are and what a DA charges. Common answer for a street race that results in a death is a penalty of no less than 1 to no more than 20 years in prison.

I just saw an article on a local story where two people were racing, one died and the other was charged with involuntary manslaughter.

If you're looking for some form of catch all answer, the best I could do...

In most states, the penalties for street racing, exhibition of speed, and reckless driving are more serious if the offense resulted in bodily harm to or the death of another person.

These types of aggravated circumstances can elevate a street racing charge (or related offense) to a felony and result in thousands of dollars in fines and a number of years in prison.

The offender could also face felony vehicular assault or manslaughter charges. LINK

It seems that all these results are if the injury/death is someone that is IN your vehicle, no?

No, I believe you just have to be engaged in the act. If a street race turns deadly, everyone involved has a degree of liability. Some states makes both parties equally liable for whatever the outcome is as both parties contributed to the chain of events that produced that result.

 

[Chaka]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

Its the racing that crosses the threshold. If two cars are racing and someone gets hurt, in many states both parties are at fault.

If one of the cars injured or killed a bystander, sure that makes sense. But that didn't happen as all participants are assumed to be willing. So, technically the charge could be what?

Murder suicide?

 

[Largent]

I hope Carter drops, and to a team that will afford him the stage and surrounding talent that he can use that "slight" by teams to get a chip on his shoulder. Perhaps that's what he needs to match the talent with the desire. If he goes top 5 and get's 20mill + signing bonus and 30mill guaranteed who's going to tell him " see, you got what you thought - so NOW go get in shape".

Thanks for posting back in here, I appreciate the full view and you as well as others have done a great job asking questions and basing your opinions a lot on what has happened off the field, that's not unfair. In some cases like Sapp it was mostly about marijuana rumors, fast forward 20-25 years and it's hard to fathom they made such a stink about it.

I feel there are valid points to explain the low snap count as a n example. It is disturbing he would show up to a workout out of shape.
The dude has special skills and like others have mentioned, has the ability to wreck havoc. I can see why Philly would like to make him their new DLine Centerpiece and they have the capital to move up and get him if they desire. I think Detroit is also looking long and hard at what he could do to enhance their defense and what might happen if they pass and he lands on Philly.

This is why we discuss this stuff and hash it out as we come up to the draft.

A lot of Pete Carroll can bring any troubled kid around, i.e. Lynch, Frank Clark and to your point with Detroit - Seattle and Detroit also have two very distinctive coaches. One preaches competition, the other introduced himself to the fans by announcing at his opening press conference:

“We’re gonna stand up, and it’s gonna take two more shots to knock us down. And on the way up, we’re gonna take your other kneecap, and we’re gonna get up, and it’s gonna take three shots to get us down. And when we do, we’re gonna take another hunk out of you.”

As I keep saying, I’m not sure these quotes from anonymous scouting sources via Bob McGinn quite chime with either coach:

“Doesn’t play hard like (Devante) Wyatt. That dude gave it his all. Carter’s motor runs hot and cold. He’s disruptive, but not overly productive. He’s a worrier for me. A lot of these Georgia dudes aren’t as good individually as they were as a whole. Travon Walker. They all were overrated because of how dominant that D was.” Was a 5-star recruit from Warren Sapp’s hometown of Apopka, Fla. “Best player in the draft but he’s lazy,” a third scout said. “They put him on the treadmill damn near every day. He doesn’t love football, doesn’t love the weight room. Horrible family background. Not a leader.

I
listened this week to a podcast featuring Jim Monos, former Director of Player Personnel for the Bills. He had this to say about Carter, reacting to McGinn’s report:

“That’s a trigger word, ‘doesn’t love football’. ‘Treadmill’ — that means weight issues. You really should just move on. It’s tempting, because of the size/speed. You have to move on. Let somebody else be the hero. I would let somebody else be the hero. It would be a luxury pick for a team. A top-10 pick? You have to love football. You have to be productive, you have to be ready to play right away. It’s a hard no, it’s an easy hard no almost. Especially at defensive tackle.”

Ultimately, if I'm investing 30mill and want to cornerstone a franchise - which most top 5 picks are needing to do at their spots, it's not going to be for a player that doesn't eat, drink, **** football and would walk on glass before being late to team meetings or practice. I think Georgia were just doing enough to make sure he showed on game day.

If I had to guess, he goes 9 to the Steelers, who are trading up with Chi and giving them back the 33rd pick for Claypool that they stole. Tomlin kept Antonio Brown under wraps ffs. !

 

[Max Power]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

Its the racing that crosses the threshold. If two cars are racing and someone gets hurt, in many states both parties are at fault.

If one of the cars injured or killed a bystander, sure that makes sense. But that didn't happen as all participants are assumed to be willing. So, technically the charge could be what?

Murder suicide?

I think the theory falls more along the lines of if Car A and B are racing... Car A drives in a manner that contributed to the occupant of Car B dead on the side of the road, car A willfully played a role in that.

 

[Deamon]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

Its the racing that crosses the threshold. If two cars are racing and someone gets hurt, in many states both parties are at fault.

If one of the cars injured or killed a bystander, sure that makes sense. But that didn't happen as all participants are assumed to be willing. So, technically the charge could be what?

Murder suicide?

I think the theory falls more along the lines of if Car A and B are racing... Car A drives in a manner that contributed to the occupant of Car B dead on the side of the road, car A willfully played a role in that.

I could be wrong for sure. But spent some time researching and I can't see a single case of/example of/law of the OTHER driver going to JAIL... Ever.

I'm not sure if it was 'street racing" or what you wanna call it. He was definitely driving extremely stupid and dangerously... seems like they were both being total idiots and speeding to get to their next location, and one of the cars went off the road. I don't think he "got off easy" at all. For all the people claiming his 'name' got him off easy, his name also is bringing him to the spotlight and having people sit on their keyboards and call for him to go to jail.

Would be absolutely shocked if the EXACT same scenario happened without anyone famous in it, that the driver of the car that didn't crash would be going to jail. I believe it does show a potential character flaw in Carter and all that... but the "he got off easy he should be in jail" argument is totally ridiculous.

 

[Chaka]

In California, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. Unless, of course, he was a football star.

lol no one would be in prison for speeding (even excessively) in California. The other driver was speeding and drunk.

Its the racing that crosses the threshold. If two cars are racing and someone gets hurt, in many states both parties are at fault.

If one of the cars injured or killed a bystander, sure that makes sense. But that didn't happen as all participants are assumed to be willing. So, technically the charge could be what?

Murder suicide?

I think the theory falls more along the lines of if Car A and B are racing... Car A drives in a manner that contributed to the occupant of Car B dead on the side of the road, car A willfully played a role in that.

I get it.

I haven't checked the language of the statute in Georgia but in California the reckless driving statute is something along the lines of "Willful and wanton disregard for human life and or property." I imagine it is similar in Georgia.

That pretty much covers what happened in this situation. What additional charge(s) should apply?

Manslaughter? Murder? Depraved indifference (hat tip to Law & Order)?

 

[ghostguy123]

Sigh.........

 

[BobbyLayne]

I could be wrong for sure. But spent some time researching and I can't see a single case of/example of/law of the OTHER driver going to JAIL... Ever.

Did you try Westlaw?

In NYS the non-crashing car involved in street racing fatalities routinely gets initially charged with vehicular manslaughter. IDK the data on conviction rates or plea deals, that’s another matter. But it’s my understanding the NY AG is not exactly the line ranger here.

(not a lawyer, parroting things I’ve heard or read, not my area of experience or expertise)

 

[rockaction]

In NYS the non-crashing car involved in street racing fatalities routinely gets initially charged with vehicular manslaughter.

Sort of what I argued earlier or implied. This is the standard for most states, I think. Letting him go was letting him off easy, I think, depending on Georgia's statute.

 

[BobbyLayne]

In NYS the non-crashing car involved in street racing fatalities routinely gets initially charged with vehicular manslaughter.

Sort of what I argued earlier or implied. This is the standard for most states, I think. Letting him go was letting him off easy, I think, depending on Georgia's statute.

My interpretation of the body cam footage is that he was treated with extreme deference.

Pretty awful trauma for everyone involved. But the damaging thing in this draft cycle is not ill-advised use of a vehicle. Or his underwhelming pro day.

It’s the whispers about work ethic, being gassed when you play 30% of the snaps, the death knell of “doesn’t love football.” That’s why he is dropping, not bc he likes fast cars.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I hope Carter drops, and to a team that will afford him the stage and surrounding talent that he can use that "slight" by teams to get a chip on his shoulder. Perhaps that's what he needs to match the talent with the desire. If he goes top 5 and get's 20mill + signing bonus and 30mill guaranteed who's going to tell him " see, you got what you thought - so NOW go get in shape".

Thanks for posting back in here, I appreciate the full view and you as well as others have done a great job asking questions and basing your opinions a lot on what has happened off the field, that's not unfair. In some cases like Sapp it was mostly about marijuana rumors, fast forward 20-25 years and it's hard to fathom they made such a stink about it.

I feel there are valid points to explain the low snap count as a n example. It is disturbing he would show up to a workout out of shape.
The dude has special skills and like others have mentioned, has the ability to wreck havoc. I can see why Philly would like to make him their new DLine Centerpiece and they have the capital to move up and get him if they desire. I think Detroit is also looking long and hard at what he could do to enhance their defense and what might happen if they pass and he lands on Philly.

This is why we discuss this stuff and hash it out as we come up to the draft.

A lot of Pete Carroll can bring any troubled kid around, i.e. Lynch, Frank Clark and to your point with Detroit - Seattle and Detroit also have two very distinctive coaches. One preaches competition, the other introduced himself to the fans by announcing at his opening press conference:

“We’re gonna stand up, and it’s gonna take two more shots to knock us down. And on the way up, we’re gonna take your other kneecap, and we’re gonna get up, and it’s gonna take three shots to get us down. And when we do, we’re gonna take another hunk out of you.”

As I keep saying, I’m not sure these quotes from anonymous scouting sources via Bob McGinn quite chime with either coach:

“Doesn’t play hard like (Devante) Wyatt. That dude gave it his all. Carter’s motor runs hot and cold. He’s disruptive, but not overly productive. He’s a worrier for me. A lot of these Georgia dudes aren’t as good individually as they were as a whole. Travon Walker. They all were overrated because of how dominant that D was.” Was a 5-star recruit from Warren Sapp’s hometown of Apopka, Fla. “Best player in the draft but he’s lazy,” a third scout said. “They put him on the treadmill damn near every day. He doesn’t love football, doesn’t love the weight room. Horrible family background. Not a leader.

I
listened this week to a podcast featuring Jim Monos, former Director of Player Personnel for the Bills. He had this to say about Carter, reacting to McGinn’s report:

“That’s a trigger word, ‘doesn’t love football’. ‘Treadmill’ — that means weight issues. You really should just move on. It’s tempting, because of the size/speed. You have to move on. Let somebody else be the hero. I would let somebody else be the hero. It would be a luxury pick for a team. A top-10 pick? You have to love football. You have to be productive, you have to be ready to play right away. It’s a hard no, it’s an easy hard no almost. Especially at defensive tackle.”

Ultimately, if I'm investing 30mill and want to cornerstone a franchise - which most top 5 picks are needing to do at their spots, it's not going to be for a player that doesn't eat, drink, **** football and would walk on glass before being late to team meetings or practice. I think Georgia were just doing enough to make sure he showed on game day.

If I had to guess, he goes 9 to the Steelers, who are trading up with Chi and giving them back the 33rd pick for Claypool that they stole. Tomlin kept Antonio Brown under wraps ffs. !

I would not throw the entire Univ of Georgia Football program under the bus just beause the Jacksonville Jaguars, one of the worst wins and loss records over the last 15-20 years...
Don't allow their inability to find anyone else overall at No 1 or a trade partner stand in the way of Jalen Carter being a very strong NFL prospect. Especially if he slips past the Top 5.

 

[SoBeDad]

On Sunday night TV, Drew Rosenhaus said Carter will go top 10. And if a team at 5 expresses interest, he'll tell them that the team at 4 is interested or other teams are interested in trading up. Drew is not slowing down at age 55 after becoming an agent at age 22 while in law school. He's a nice guy to boot.

His best work may have been with Willis McGahee, a tru generational talent at RB who shredded his knee in the 2003 Fiesta Bowl. From wikipedia:

>>One month later, he signed with Rosenhaus who predicted that, despite the injury, McGahee would be a first round NFL draft pick in the 2003 NFL Draft. During the draft, cameras would cut to live shots of McGahee and Rosenhaus talking on their cell phones, giving the impression that they were communicating with teams, even though they were in fact speaking with each other. The Buffalo Bills selected McGahee in the first round as the 23rd overall choice in the draft. After reconstructive surgery and physical rehabilitation, McGahee signed a five-year contract with the Bills worth about $16 million.<<

 

[Terpman22]

On Sunday night TV, Drew Rosenhaus said Carter will go top 10. And if a team at 5 expresses interest, he'll tell them that the team at 4 is interested or other teams are interested in trading up. Drew is not slowing down at age 55 after becoming an agent at age 22 while in law school. He's a nice guy to boot.

His best work may have been with Willis McGahee, a tru generational talent at RB who shredded his knee in the 2003 Fiesta Bowl. From wikipedia:

>>One month later, he signed with Rosenhaus who predicted that, despite the injury, McGahee would be a first round NFL draft pick in the 2003 NFL Draft. During the draft, cameras would cut to live shots of McGahee and Rosenhaus talking on their cell phones, giving the impression that they were communicating with teams, even though they were in fact speaking with each other. The Buffalo Bills selected McGahee in the first round as the 23rd overall choice in the draft. After reconstructive surgery and physical rehabilitation, McGahee signed a five-year contract with the Bills worth about $16 million.<<

Haha offtopic, but definitely his "Best" work or at least most entertaining was him fielding questions in Terrell Owens' driveway. Nice guy? Wasn't the character Bob Sugarman loosely based off of him in Jerry Maguire?

Anyway, back to Carter, don't see him 'not' going top 10. He knows this business very well.

 

[Faust]

NFL draft: Lions 'felt better about' Jalen Carter after visit

Bears appear comfortable with the possibility of drafting Jalen Carter

Seahawks 2023 draft rumors: Jalen Carter ‘isn’t expected to be the pick’ for Seattle at No. 5

 

[Faust]

Eagles traded up with the Bears to select Georgia DT Jalen Carter with the No. 9 overall pick in the 2023 NFL Draft.​

The Eagles flipped a 2024 fourth-rounder for the right to move up one spot. With balanced power and a mature approach to reading his responsibilities, Carter (6’3/314) led 2022 UGA in forced fumbles despite missing two games with a knee injury. While his hands demonstrate violence, Carter’s most notable trait may be his movement ability as he can either burst or change direction on a dime. When it comes to body leverage, he imposes his will on offensive linemen whether it’s by shooting the gap or reestablishing the line of scrimmage. His play awareness is phenomenal, regularly shutting down run plays or pushing the pocket into the quarterback’s lap. Carter may sound like a close-to-perfect prospect, but huge question marks remain regarding his maturity and off-the-field issues. He chose not to undergo any athletic testing throughout the pre-draft process. Although he isn’t the type to be a team distraction and prima donna, Carter has drawn the ire of coaches for immaturity and lack of professionalism, as well as being associated with the death of a college teammate in an auto accident. There is also slight concern with his injury history that caused him to miss games this past season. However, he has shown the ability to fill many roles on successful teams at multiple levels and has the potential to become one of the best at his position, even at the next level.
RELATED:

• Chicago Bears

Apr 27, 2023, 9:20 PM ET

 

[Faust]

Greg Cosell on Jalen Carter: 'Mix between Suh and McCoy'

 

[TwinTurbo]

Greg Cosell on Jalen Carter: 'Mix between Suh and McCoy'

Yes Suh and McCoy but with 75% fewer sacks.

 

[Faust]

Eagles' Nick Sirianni not concerned about Jalen Carter conditioning: 'He wants to be the best pro he can be'

 

[Terpman22]

Greg Cosell on Jalen Carter: 'Mix between Suh and McCoy'

Yes Suh and McCoy but with 75% fewer sacks.

I'd hedge that he gets more than 20 career sacks.