Duke Johnson RB Dolphins (2 Viewers)

[Bracie Smathers]

That looks all warm and fuzzy during the offseason where seemingly EVERYONE has star potential and is going to receive rave reviews (see Devante Freeman). But then reality sets in. Those offseason darlings are expected to pass protect, hold on to the ball, and gain yards. How many third round backs in the last 10 years have come in and carved out a SIGNIFICANT role year one for any reason other than injury? Serious question. I would really like to know. Compound that with what we already know about Pettine and I would say the offseason talk is just that. Talk. This time of year, the internet is full of feel good comments. Last season, I fell for it hard with Eric Ebron. I'm not sold at all. Not until I see it weeks 1-7. Not saying Crowell and West are light years better. But they have one thing Duke doesn't. NFL experience. I would love Pettine to prove me wrong on this one and stick with a guy.

Your take of Duke Johnson is to dismiss his chances but saying everyone seemingly has star potential isn't true. For instance last year RB Isaiah Crowell was seen as being on the bubble and was a possible cut up until the final preseason game.

Probably not a ton of NFL RB seen as starters taken in the third round as rookis but the same question could be phrased into, how many free agent RBs who did not lead their team in rushing, where the team had drafted a 3rd round RB the year he was picked up off the wire and then after his rookie year the team stated they wanted to address the RB position and then drafted another 3rd round draft pick? To continue, how many of those free agent RBs struggled in pass-pro, did little in the receiving game, were slow to pick up the playbook and are thought as having a firm grip on the starting job for their team?

One of the reasons Crow was not drafted last year was more than just off-field issues, it was reported he was slow to learn and reports emerged where he had issues learning the offense. Terrence West took the starting job away from Crow a couple of times last year and started the final game of the year right. The team openly stated they wanted to address the RB position this offseason. They saw a need. I wouldn't dismiss the upside of Duke Johnson and if people like his talent the only way to land a bargain is to get him if the perception is to dismiss him so I don't mind your take I just disagree because I see a potential upside for Duke Johnson this year.

 

[Todem]

That looks all warm and fuzzy during the offseason where seemingly EVERYONE has star potential and is going to receive rave reviews (see Devante Freeman). But then reality sets in. Those offseason darlings are expected to pass protect, hold on to the ball, and gain yards. How many third round backs in the last 10 years have come in and carved out a SIGNIFICANT role year one for any reason other than injury? Serious question. I would really like to know. Compound that with what we already know about Pettine and I would say the offseason talk is just that. Talk. This time of year, the internet is full of feel good comments. Last season, I fell for it hard with Eric Ebron. I'm not sold at all. Not until I see it weeks 1-7. Not saying Crowell and West are light years better. But they have one thing Duke doesn't. NFL experience. I would love Pettine to prove me wrong on this one and stick with a guy.

If RB's were valued far more highly like say in the 1990's Duke Johnson would have been a late first rounder. He is a gifted athlete with great instincts. I think he has more all around talent than Lamar Miller who finally was given a chance to break out last season on the Phins. Duke has better hands, better blocker, tougher inside runner and has better wiggle and able to create out of nothing.

This kid is an absolute play maker. He will carve out a significant role for himself with the Browns who are play maker starved.

 

[georg013]

I should have known better than to come into a Duke Johnson thread trying to downplay Duke Johnson's role in the offense year 1. My bad fellas. I will make way back to the West/Crowell thread now. Lol.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Crowell and West are both 2nd year players, it isn't like they are experienced vets. Also Crowell is an idiot, it probably takes him 10x's longer to learn the playbook than a normal human.

 

[jurb26]

To me this is pretty simple. Crow and West aren't that good. Clev knows this. It's why they rotated them so much last year, why they identified RB as a need this off season and why they drafted Johnson where they did.

If Johnson proves to be better than them, he will get decent work. Probably still some level of shenanigans but decent work. If he doesn't prove to be any better than them its rinse and repeat of the mess fantasy owners saw last year.

I happen to think Johnson is the best talent there so I'm betting on him.

 

[georg013]

Crowell and West are both 2nd year players, it isn't like they are experienced vets. Also Crowell is an idiot, it probably takes him 10x's longer to learn the playbook than a normal human.

That's just wrong. Come on man. Have you followed this kid on Twitter? He is doing everything in his power to turn things around. He is doing work with kids, popping up in the community, cut him some slack. He went from undrafted to 1B. How long did it take Lamar Miller to even get to that point? Three seasons. Leave Crow alone. Lol.

 

[georg013]

To me this is pretty simple. Crow and West aren't that good. Clev knows this. It's why they rotated them so much last year, why they identified RB as a need this off season and why they drafted Johnson where they did.

If Johnson proves to be better than them, he will get decent work. Probably still some level of shenanigans but decent work. If he doesn't prove to be any better than them its rinse and repeat of the mess fantasy owners saw last year.

I happen to think Johnson is the best talent there so I'm betting on him.

What happens next year when they take another RB? Just sayin'...

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Sigmond Bloom's latest On the Couch podcast. His guest had Duke Johnson rated as his second best rookie RB but he said he didn't like the situation but Bloom disagreed and made his case. Also today John Clayton says Duke Johnson has been the best back so-far with the Browns and the Browns website also is very high on Duke Johnson.

Here is the latest On the Couch pod with link and a rough transcript of what they said about Duke. Go to a little after the 43:00 minute mark to hear.

Jun 23 2015
2015 Volume#50a - On The Couch 6.23.2015 (#2381)
In This Episode: Sigmund Bloom and Jake Ciely (Rotoexperts) talk NFL and fantasy football. Topics Include: the growing buzz around Allen Robinson, upside and downside of Carlos Hyde, rookie RBs to target in redraft leagues, plus more!

-----

Rough transcript

-----

(GUEST) :I love the talent in the Cleveland backfield Isaiah Crowell was one of my top-two rated RBs last year and I was calling for him from week one and I was so happy he got his opportunity for him to step up. That being said, they drafted Duke Johnson was my number two running back for my rookies this year and they still have Terrence West. I don't want nothing to do with that because on top of it even if they do run the ball 550 times this year ... whose gonna be the person and second of all when you have Josh McCowan or Johnny Manziel as your quarterback and no wide receivers?

Sigmond Bloom: No, these are all perfect points although I AM on the Duke Johnson train, I AM and I've unpacked it a few times but theirs new information and again coming out of OTAs theirs new information.

And ah, (GUEST: That happens all of the time. BLOOM talked over the objection to make his point) but this is good stuff though.

I tend to agree with you but one thing that Cleveland has going for it is ... and Cleveland was one of the bottom offenses in my rankings. Down there with teams like Jacksonville, Oakland, Houston, Buffalo, ah... My point is this.

Its the offensive line. And the offensive line combined with, we don't need Duke Johnson to get 200 carries for him to have a significant role in this offense this year. Really from him we only need to get maybe 120 or maybe 150 carries at the most. And if he gets 120/150 carries he's now a running back two in PPR leagues because... I went around and around to a few people and I put this on the show a few times about Duke Johnson's ceiling as a reciever this year and I said 50 is basically a given. Put 50 in as the medium and 80 he could definitely approach. And its partially what you are saying who else do they have?

And if you want to add to that picture with Duke Johnson you have Tony Grossi (ESPN Cleveland) saying... he just ran down the position group today.



Sigmund Bloom @SigmundBloom HYPERLINK "/SigmundBloom/status/611963549984763905"Jun 19 From @TonyGrossi: more 2back sets for CLE, West falling on depth chart?, Duke more looks if Housler's a dud? http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=46661

Really great stuff on the ESPN sites today. How they do the rookies most likely to start for 32 teams, every writer got in there. Um, he said first of all. The new coordinator Defilippo was not really a RB by committe guy. He would rather go with the hot hand.

If Duke Johnson is your number two running back I think you can testify to his ability to 'get hot' in a game. (GUEST agreeing with that point: Right) Then you get to the idea that they are using two back sets a lot more often. You've seen Duke Johnson line up with another running back. Isaiah Crowell lining up with another running back so thats going to get Duke Johnson on the field more. You're seeing Duke Johnson lined up as a wide receiver at times. And then I love this one. Talking about how (TE) Gary Barnage is being lined up as a blocker, (TE) Rob Housler is being brought in to be more of a receiving threat in the seam and if Housler doesn't deliver then that could also lead to more snaps in the passing game for Duke Johnson.

Everything points back to Duke Johnson and then Duke Johnson can take what has been given to him at the begining of the year and expand by producing by rewarding the team for giving him the opportunity. So (RB) Ameer Abdulla is the hot name right now but I think Duke Johnson is set up in a similiar way but Isaiah Crowell is not a feeble, two surgery, kinda like (RB) Joique Bell with Ameer Abdulla ... but anyway I know you agree that Duke Johnson is a player to monitor and to watch and don't cap his expectations.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13136335/marcus-mariota-jameis-winston-real-nfl

Top 10 things we learned from OTAs: Mariota, Winston are for real

John Clayton, NFL senior writer

. The rookie running back class is already impressing.

Melvin Gordon has looked great for the San Diego Chargers. Ameer Abdullah is drawing rave reviews for the Detroit Lions. Duke Johnson has been the best back this spring for the Browns.

Cleveland Browns @Browns HYPERLINK "/Browns/status/613734333577166849"3h3 hours ago Duke Johnson gets some high praise in this week's MAILBAG!! Check it out --> http://bit.ly/Mailbag0624 HYPERLINK "http://t.co/KB0Vf5sMJr"

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

According to the Akron Beacon Journal, the Browns are "not relying on (Duke) Johnson to be their starter right away."

Beat writer Nate Ulrich says the Browns would like Johnson "to eventually develop into the (lead-back) role," but he won't open the season as Cleveland's first-team back. The Browns are intrigued with Johnson's receiving skills, however, and he remains set up for a large role. The team has repeatedly likened Johnson to Giovani Bernard, who had 226 touches as a rookie in 2013.

Source: Akron Beacon Journal
Jul 24 - 2:32 PM

 

[Faust]

Duke Johnson should be leader of the pack.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Duke Johnson - RB - Browns

Browns rookie RB Duke Johnson tweaked his hamstring during practice Saturday.

He had the leg wrapped in ice on the sideline but did not sound worried as he left practice. He likely will not miss more than a few days. Johnson should remain the heavy favorite for third-down work in the Browns' backfield.

Source: Nat Ulrich on Twitter

Aug 1 - 12:08 PM

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 30m30 minutes ago
#Browns RB Duke Johnson said he'll be all right. Felt something in hammy. Doesn't think he'll be out for long.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

.

 

[georg013]

Can't wait to see how this backfield shakes out. I still don't believe Duke is going to see the field nearly as much as his owners would like. The Browns don't view him as a bellcow. Will he be productive? Sure. Will he lead the team in carries? Only if Crow and West fall flat on their faces. It doesn't matter how great he looked in OTAs. Both West and Crowell were productive year 1. Duke would be lucky to get close to those numbers. Just my two cents.

Missing extended parts of camp won't help the youngster as he learns protections either:

(RotoWire)Johnson exited Saturday's practice with a hamstring injury that could sideline him "at least a little while," Cleveland.com reports.

Analysis: The "at least a little while" prognosis was applied to Johnson and Terrance West (calf) alike, so it's obviously not a precise measure of either players' status. Still, missing time with injuries is a good way to fall behind in a positional battle such as Cleveland's between Johnson, West, and Isaiah Crowell. As the only healthy player of the trio, Crowell has a clear advantage at the moment. This likely remains a fluid backfield, however.

Rookie Duke Johnson was running with the Browns' third-team offense before tweaking his hamstring in Saturday's training camp practice.

He's been behind Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West. "I'll be alright," Johnson said after the injury. "I've experienced much worse. I just felt something in my hamstring, stopped for precautionary reasons. We're going to take a look at it today." The Browns don't seem concerned, but Johnson needs to get back on the practice field to make up ground on the depth chart.

 

[Faust]

Browns RBs Duke Johnson and Terrance West could miss a little time with hamstring and calf injuries:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/08/browns_rbs_duke_johnson_and_te.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Duke Johnson - RB - Browns

Browns coach Mike Pettine said Sunday that Duke Johnson's hamstring injury will keep him out "a little while."

With Terrance West (calf) and Glenn Winston (knee) also out a few days, the only healthy backs at Browns camp are Isaiah Crowell and Shaun Draughn. The Browns may sign a free agent runner this week. As hamstring injuries are highly susceptible to aggravation, we'd expect the Browns to slow play Johnson's recovery. Missed practices are a concern for Johnson's 2015 playing time.

Source: Mary Kay Cabot on Twitter

Aug 2 - 12:23 PM

 

[skol asylum]

Feed the Crow.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Speaking Tuesday, Browns coach Mike Pettine called third-round RB Duke Johnson's (hamstring) continued absence "disappointing."

"It’s just disappointing that a guy we’re counting on being a big part of what we do, to lose him at this formative time," Pettine said. "He’ll have a lot of catch-up work to do. There’s no substitute for getting live reps." Pettine doesn't appear to be criticizing his rookie, but simply stating the obvious. It's unclear how long Johnson, who is ticketed for third-down duties, might be sidelined. He got injured on Sunday. NFL Network's Albert Breer did suggest Tuesday that Johnson could miss a "couple more weeks."

Source: ESPN Cleveland
Aug 4 - 2:37 PM

 

[Faust]

I was watching coverage on the Browns on the NFL network and Albert Breer reported that the Browns are quite excited about Duke Johnson, and they have big plans for him in their offense for 2015. They are likely to give him another week off to rest his hamstring as they don't want to rush him back.

 

[saintfool]

I was watching coverage on the Browns on the NFL network and Albert Breer reported that the Browns are quite excited about Duke Johnson, and they have big plans for him in their offense for 2015. They are likely to give him another week off to rest his hamstring as they don't want to rush him back.

I'm sure they do. They don't have WR to stretch the field beyond Gabriel really. Housler and Johnson will get a lot of dump offs and soft spots in coverage. Johnson will get a lot of 3rd down action.

 

[saintfool]

I was watching coverage on the Browns on the NFL network and Albert Breer reported that the Browns are quite excited about Duke Johnson, and they have big plans for him in their offense for 2015. They are likely to give him another week off to rest his hamstring as they don't want to rush him back.

I'm sure they do. They don't have WR to stretch the field beyond Gabriel really. Housler and Johnson will get a lot of dump offs and soft spots in coverage. Johnson will get a lot of 3rd down action.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

ESPN's Adam Caplan says the Browns are just "being very conservative" with Duke Johnson (hamstring).

"I wouldn't overreact if you have a fantasy draft coming up," wrote Caplan. Johnson has been sidelined for about 10 days now and won't play in the preseason opener, but the Browns still have big plans for him. Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West have been called out publicly for poor play through the first couple weeks of camp.

Source: Adam Caplan on Twitter
Aug 10 - 12:39 PM

 

[Todem]

Cream rises to the top. Duke Johnson is an elite dynamic play making talent.

He will eventually be the lead "dawg" in the pound. Matter of time.

 

[Chaka]

Being sidelined for 10 days is bad news for any rookie RB. He is missing incredibly valuable practice reps.

 

[Todem]

Being sidelined for 10 days is bad news for any rookie RB. He is missing incredibly valuable practice reps.

No doubt. But he will advance rapidly once he gets back on the field.

He is that good.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Being sidelined for 10 days is bad news for any rookie RB. He is missing incredibly valuable practice reps.

No doubt. But he will advance rapidly once he gets back on the field.

He is that good.

Last year RB Isaiah Crowell was destined to be cut but he blew up in the final preseason game and made the team and miraculously starting RB Ben Tate got injured in the first game and a legend was born with the Crow.

Crow didn't show anything last year just like this year where he is not stepping up. RB Terrence West appears to rub the coaches the wrong way since he was a healthy scratch for a few games last year and hasn't stepped-up this year yet. RB Shaun Draughns looked like he was taking advantage of the injury opportunity but he got injured.

Duke may fall a bit behind right now but being a rookie didn't hurt T-West and not getting reps didn't hurt the Crow last year. It was assumed both of the second year guys would come in and take charge but that hasn't happened so the opportunity is there for RB Duke Johnson. The coaches seem to be erring on the side of caution with his injury. I think that points to the coaching staff envisioning a big role for Duke.

 

[Chaka]

Being sidelined for 10 days is bad news for any rookie RB. He is missing incredibly valuable practice reps.

No doubt. But he will advance rapidly once he gets back on the field.

He is that good.

Maybe. Some people thought Crowell was the best RB in last year's draft.

 

[Chaka]

I am not entirely sure about that.

Last year RB Isaiah Crowell was destined to be cut...

 

[Todem]

Being sidelined for 10 days is bad news for any rookie RB. He is missing incredibly valuable practice reps.

No doubt. But he will advance rapidly once he gets back on the field.

He is that good.

Maybe. Some people thought Crowell was the best RB in last year's draft.

I consider him top 4 in this years crop.

Gurley

Ameer

Johnson

Gordon

 

[Banger]

Great thread and a bunch of great posts Bracie. Glad the Duke is a little dinged and likely won't play before my draft. He'll definitely fall as a result and while not a guarantee at all he seems like a solid upside play.....a great line, running team, seemingly open RB competition and he excels at some things the other RBs are poor at.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

The Browns hope to have Duke Johnson (hamstring) back this week and available for the third preseason game.

The Browns have been ultra careful with Johnson, for whom they allegedly have "big plans" come the regular season. With Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West failing to seize their opportunities, beat writers have left the door open for Johnson to emerge as Cleveland's starter. He's worth following closely.

Source: Mary Kay Cabot on Twitter
Aug 14 - 3:47 PM

 

[Jack White]

Rotoworld:

The Browns hope to have Duke Johnson (hamstring) back this week and available for the third preseason game.

The Browns have been ultra careful with Johnson, for whom they allegedly have "big plans" come the regular season. With Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West failing to seize their opportunities, beat writers have left the door open for Johnson to emerge as Cleveland's starter. He's worth following closely.

Source: Mary Kay Cabot on Twitter
Aug 14 - 3:47 PM

Much like the Alshon injury, this could benefit me as he is on my hit list.

Guys that are high on him: what is the earliest pick (in PPR) you would consider snagging him, even if it meant reaching a bit?

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Browns rookie RB Duke Johnson (hamstring) returned to practice on Saturday.

Johnson was in uniform, but he spent at least part of the practice riding an exercise bike on the sidelines. Even if he was just limited, Johnson getting any work in would be a positive for his fantasy outlook. Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West have failed to seize their opportunities while Johnson has been sidelined.

Source: Tom Withers on Twitter

Aug 15 - 12:43 PM

 

[Chaka]

Great thread and a bunch of great posts Bracie. Glad the Duke is a little dinged and likely won't play before my draft. He'll definitely fall as a result and while not a guarantee at all he seems like a solid upside play.....a great line, running team, seemingly open RB competition and he excels at some things the other RBs are poor at.

I just cannot buy into this bizarre sneaky notion that NFL coaches get tricky with rookie RBs and will sit them when they don't actually need to.

Far more likely is what is going on in Arizona with David Johnson who has been missing tons of PT. Arians came out and stated, in no uncertain terms, that the missed time is killing David Johnson and there is no way in hell he will play if he keeps missing practice time.


Duke needs PT and if he doesn't get it he will be a liability on the field. I cannot see any but the stupidest and most desperate coaches rolling with a rookie in his situation.

 

[jurb26]

Great thread and a bunch of great posts Bracie. Glad the Duke is a little dinged and likely won't play before my draft. He'll definitely fall as a result and while not a guarantee at all he seems like a solid upside play.....a great line, running team, seemingly open RB competition and he excels at some things the other RBs are poor at.

I just cannot buy into this bizarre sneaky notion that NFL coaches get tricky with rookie RBs and will sit them when they don't actually need to.Far more likely is what is going on in Arizona with David Johnson who has been missing tons of PT. Arians came out and stated, in no uncertain terms, that the missed time is killing David Johnson and there is no way in hell he will play if he keeps missing practice time.

Duke needs PT and if he doesn't get it he will be a liability on the field. I cannot see any but the stupidest and most desperate coaches rolling with a rookie in his situation.

All team situations aren't created equal. Are had a decent RB ahead of Johnson. Clev has, well, garbage in front of Duke.

 

[Chaka]

Great thread and a bunch of great posts Bracie. Glad the Duke is a little dinged and likely won't play before my draft. He'll definitely fall as a result and while not a guarantee at all he seems like a solid upside play.....a great line, running team, seemingly open RB competition and he excels at some things the other RBs are poor at.

I just cannot buy into this bizarre sneaky notion that NFL coaches get tricky with rookie RBs and will sit them when they don't actually need to.Far more likely is what is going on in Arizona with David Johnson who has been missing tons of PT. Arians came out and stated, in no uncertain terms, that the missed time is killing David Johnson and there is no way in hell he will play if he keeps missing practice time.

Duke needs PT and if he doesn't get it he will be a liability on the field. I cannot see any but the stupidest and most desperate coaches rolling with a rookie in his situation.

All team situations aren't created equal. Are had a decent RB ahead of Johnson. Clev has, well, garbage in front of Duke.

Not that different. Calling Crowell & West garbage doesn't exactly engender the notion that you opinions are very well considered (something you are generally better about IIRC). Lots of people think (thought?) Crowell is a special talent and it isn't like he had a garbage rookie year. I understand that the talk out of camp hasn't been glowing on either Crow or West but I'll give it a little more time before I am willing to anoint the rookie who hasn't taken a snap in camp.

 

[jurb26]

Great thread and a bunch of great posts Bracie. Glad the Duke is a little dinged and likely won't play before my draft. He'll definitely fall as a result and while not a guarantee at all he seems like a solid upside play.....a great line, running team, seemingly open RB competition and he excels at some things the other RBs are poor at.

I just cannot buy into this bizarre sneaky notion that NFL coaches get tricky with rookie RBs and will sit them when they don't actually need to.Far more likely is what is going on in Arizona with David Johnson who has been missing tons of PT. Arians came out and stated, in no uncertain terms, that the missed time is killing David Johnson and there is no way in hell he will play if he keeps missing practice time.

Duke needs PT and if he doesn't get it he will be a liability on the field. I cannot see any but the stupidest and most desperate coaches rolling with a rookie in his situation.

All team situations aren't created equal. Are had a decent RB ahead of Johnson. Clev has, well, garbage in front of Duke.

Not that different. Calling Crowell & West garbage doesn't exactly engender the notion that you opinions are very well considered (something you are generally better about IIRC). Lots of people think (thought?) Crowell is a special talent and it isn't like he had a garbage rookie year. I understand that the talk out of camp hasn't been glowing on either Crow or West but I'll give it a little more time before I am willing to anoint the rookie who hasn't taken a snap in camp.

Garbage is probably too strong a term. Still, how many statements and actions does Clev have to make about their displeasure with Crow and West for people to finally realize they just aren't good? Neither of them. They both showed last year to be among the worst starting RBs in the NFL when given the chance. I'm not sure why so many are holding onto this hope with Crowell. It seems like the West contingent is far more grounded about it. This isn't to say Duke is any better. We really don't know. We do know that Clev is not happy with the incumbent group and that they played poorly last year. We also know they saw RB as a weakness worth addressing this offseason, drafted Duke and have repeatedly said they have "big plans" for him. What that means exactly is anyone's guess. If Duke can proved an upgrade over them, not something at requires setting the world on fire, he could easily be in line for a strong season. Now, he has to actually get on the field to do so.

 

[Banger]

Great thread and a bunch of great posts Bracie. Glad the Duke is a little dinged and likely won't play before my draft. He'll definitely fall as a result and while not a guarantee at all he seems like a solid upside play.....a great line, running team, seemingly open RB competition and he excels at some things the other RBs are poor at.

I just cannot buy into this bizarre sneaky notion that NFL coaches get tricky with rookie RBs and will sit them when they don't actually need to.Far more likely is what is going on in Arizona with David Johnson who has been missing tons of PT. Arians came out and stated, in no uncertain terms, that the missed time is killing David Johnson and there is no way in hell he will play if he keeps missing practice time.

Duke needs PT and if he doesn't get it he will be a liability on the field. I cannot see any but the stupidest and most desperate coaches rolling with a rookie in his situation.

I don't think he's healthy and coaches are sitting him. I think he was dinged up but in his absence the guys that have been there and have done nothing to solidfy their spots. They clearly aren't happy based on the juggling last year despite wanting one guy to take it and they go out and get a good RB pretty early who turned some heads in OTAs. Who knows how things will work out but if I'm placing chips down my bet would be with a cheaper duke Johnson.

 

[Chaka]

Great thread and a bunch of great posts Bracie. Glad the Duke is a little dinged and likely won't play before my draft. He'll definitely fall as a result and while not a guarantee at all he seems like a solid upside play.....a great line, running team, seemingly open RB competition and he excels at some things the other RBs are poor at.

I just cannot buy into this bizarre sneaky notion that NFL coaches get tricky with rookie RBs and will sit them when they don't actually need to.Far more likely is what is going on in Arizona with David Johnson who has been missing tons of PT. Arians came out and stated, in no uncertain terms, that the missed time is killing David Johnson and there is no way in hell he will play if he keeps missing practice time.

Duke needs PT and if he doesn't get it he will be a liability on the field. I cannot see any but the stupidest and most desperate coaches rolling with a rookie in his situation.

All team situations aren't created equal. Are had a decent RB ahead of Johnson. Clev has, well, garbage in front of Duke.

Not that different. Calling Crowell & West garbage doesn't exactly engender the notion that you opinions are very well considered (something you are generally better about IIRC). Lots of people think (thought?) Crowell is a special talent and it isn't like he had a garbage rookie year. I understand that the talk out of camp hasn't been glowing on either Crow or West but I'll give it a little more time before I am willing to anoint the rookie who hasn't taken a snap in camp.

Garbage is probably too strong a term. Still, how many statements and actions does Clev have to make about their displeasure with Crow and West for people to finally realize they just aren't good? Neither of them. They both showed last year to be among the worst starting RBs in the NFL when given the chance. I'm not sure why so many are holding onto this hope with Crowell. It seems like the West contingent is far more grounded about it. This isn't to say Duke is any better. We really don't know. We do know that Clev is not happy with the incumbent group and that they played poorly last year. We also know they saw RB as a weakness worth addressing this offseason, drafted Duke and have repeatedly said they have "big plans" for him. What that means exactly is anyone's guess. If Duke can proved an upgrade over them, not something at requires setting the world on fire, he could easily be in line for a strong season. Now, he has to actually get on the field to do so.

I agree with pretty much everything...almost. Crow looked pretty solid in weeks 1-5 last year (before Mack got hurt) averaging 5.4 on 44 carries. It's a very small sample size but I think everyone agrees that the loss of Mack really hurt the line.

The coaches have been vocally displeased, no doubt, but, while notable, I try not to put too much weight into what coaches say publicly. How many times did the coaches use the words "big plans" (or whatever) and how many times have the beat writers parroted that point? I think there is a big distinction there.

And, again, while I agree that what is coming out of Cle about Crow & West is not good and should temper any enthusiasm I am surprised that the Duke people seem to gloss over what I consider to be the most important factor (by an enormous margin). Rookies need practice reps. Plain and simple. Regardless of their big plans they won't be able to implement them if he doesn't start learning the line reads and protection packages. He may be back this week, and he may be a very quick study so it may not hurt him early in the season. But I had to use three qualifiers before I could make that statement and that has me every bit as worried about Duke as others seem to be about Crow (and I think my logic is more defensible).

Frankly I think the whole situation is shaping up to be a big mess and, like last season, a bunch of people are going to hold onto their guy hoping that he is the one that emerges.

 

[jurb26]

Frankly I think the whole situation is shaping up to be a big mess and, like last season, a bunch of people are going to hold onto their guy hoping that he is the one that emerges.

I largely agree with this. I think this is shaping up to be a mess for at a minimum the early part of the season, perhaps even the entire season. I think you're overstating the learning curve for Duke or rookie RBs in general for that matter. Of course it hurts to not be there. If he proves the most talented guy, though, he will get work. Running the ball is, in the scheme of things NFL, a remarkably simple process. It's largely instinct and natural ability. It doesn't require the true honing of your craft like other positions; QB, WR or TE. The idiosyncrasies that typically hold rookie RBs back are things like pass protection or ball security. Neither are a major problem for Duke as a raw prospect.

If Duke proves to be better than Crow and West I think we could very easily see this situation work out by week 5 or so. I'm betting on him as the guy who could emerge. I'm making that bet because 1) I think he is the best pure RB talent there and best prospect. 2) We've seen what Crow and West can do, they've been given a chance (multiple really) and they've shown to be underwhelming at best and squandered those opportunities.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

Why do folks act like they stop practicing when the preseason is over? Crowell went through a similar struggle last preseason and then came on strong in the last week of the preseason. Patience people. He's still studying the playbook. Once he gets on the field he will show what he needs to with the reps he gets. And he will continue to get reps during in-season practices.

 

[Chaka]

I think you're overstating the learning curve for Duke or rookie RBs in general for that matter. Of course it hurts to not be there. If he proves the most talented guy, though, he will get work. Running the ball is, in the scheme of things NFL, a remarkably simple process. It's largely instinct and natural ability. It doesn't require the true honing of your craft like other positions; QB, WR or TE. The idiosyncrasies that typically hold rookie RBs back are things like pass protection or ball security. Neither are a major problem for Duke as a raw prospect.

How in the world are pass protections not a major problem for a raw prospect? He has never seen an NFL quality blitz. That is a major problem. He might be a savant at the job but he needs reps so we can find out.

We've seen what Crow and West can do, they've been given a chance (multiple really) and they've shown to be underwhelming at best and squandered those opportunities.

At his best Crow put up 5.4 YPC.

Duke may be the best of the bunch but we probably won't know that until, IMO, the midpoint of the season at the earliest. I support the notion of taking Duke on the cheap but the book isn't closed on Crow...or West for that matter (although he seems to have more of an attitude issue than the others). Those two could easily keep the entire situation a huge mess all year and they still have the opportunity to seize the job outright. A year of experience and being on the field right now gives them a big advantage over Duke.

 

[jurb26]

A year of experience and being on the field right now gives them a big advantage over Duke.

I don't see how it does. Clev clearly didn't care about that last year when they put their prized offseason addition, Tate, out to pasture for the rookies. They also have shown no commitment to either Crow or West whatsoever. Their MO seemed pretty clear all of last year and it seems in line to not change this year. They will start the guy who they think gives them the best chance that week. How they decide this I'm not sure. Sure Crow flashed some skills from time to time last year. So did West, though this convenietly gets ignored in all of these discussions for some reason. At their best they were serviceable RBs. Their best clearly wasn't good enough for Clev. I'm not sure why we should expect that to change. If Duke sucks and they don't have a choice, OK. I don't think Duke will suck.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I am not entirely sure about that.

Last year RB Isaiah Crowell was destined to be cut...

Story from last year right after the last preseason game after a full training camp and the other three preseason games where Isaiah Crowell had not shown anything. The story explains that the big game by Crowell would force the team to keep him on the active roster and that he was on the roster bubble up to the final preseason game.

For some reason Microsoft 10 is really causing problems and it won't allow me to cut-and-paste so you will have to go to the story where it says he was on the roster bubble and mentions that last year HE was the one who missed time due to a hamstring injury just like Duke Johnson is missing time this year.

The article even makes some fun of the fact that Crowell was a 'bubble boy', meaning one of the players on the bubble to make the team and HC Mike Pettine states that the last RB position was still being debated at the time the article came out.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/08/why_isaiah_crowells_big_night.html

 

[lod01]

A year of experience and being on the field right now gives them a big advantage over Duke.

I don't see how it does. Clev clearly didn't care about that last year when they put their prized offseason addition, Tate, out to pasture for the rookies. They also have shown no commitment to either Crow or West whatsoever. Their MO seemed pretty clear all of last year and it seems in line to not change this year. They will start the guy who they think gives them the best chance that week. How they decide this I'm not sure.Sure Crow flashed some skills from time to time last year. So did West, though this convenietly gets ignored in all of these discussions for some reason. At their best they were serviceable RBs. Their best clearly wasn't good enough for Clev. I'm not sure why we should expect that to change. If Duke sucks and they don't have a choice, OK. I don't think Duke will suck.

...is that they clearly don't know what the #### they are doing.

Ben Tate.....Charles Johnson.....Manziel in the 1st.....who'd they sign at WR? Bowe and Hartline. Currently this franchise needs 2 starting WRs and a starting QB.

 

[Banger]

I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this kid as the situation seems like it could be a perfect upside sitatuion.

- The coaching staff hasn't been happy with Crowell/West and they have been pedestrian in camp

- they have terrific run blocking and will focus the offense around the run

- Duke apparently impressed the staff a great deal in OTAs so much so they've been vocally frustrated that he's been dinged up because they have big plans for him

- good skillset ... great playmaker and receiver

- his cost is a mid to late round flier

It seems like he could be a HUGE value for very little cost....what am I missing?

 

[FGITLOTR]

I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this kid as the situation seems like it could be a perfect upside sitatuion.

- The coaching staff hasn't been happy with Crowell/West and they have been pedestrian in camp

- they have terrific run blocking and will focus the offense around the run

- Duke apparently impressed the staff a great deal in OTAs so much so they've been vocally frustrated that he's been dinged up because they have big plans for him

- good skillset ... great playmaker and receiver

- his cost is a mid to late round flier

It seems like he could be a HUGE value for very little cost....what am I missing?

I agree and think he's more than a COP back. Targeting him everywhere.

 

[werdnoynek]

I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this kid as the situation seems like it could be a perfect upside sitatuion.

- The coaching staff hasn't been happy with Crowell/West and they have been pedestrian in camp

- they have terrific run blocking and will focus the offense around the run

- Duke apparently impressed the staff a great deal in OTAs so much so they've been vocally frustrated that he's been dinged up because they have big plans for him

- good skillset ... great playmaker and receiver

- his cost is a mid to late round flier

It seems like he could be a HUGE value for very little cost....what am I missing?

Duke hasn't been practicing or playing in games. The coaching staff isn't happy about any of the backs, that includes him...

What you're missing is a big bucket of water to clear up this muddy situation.

 

[TartanLion]

Much LOLs were had when I grabbed him in the 14th round the other day, with Crowell going in the 5-6th and West around the 11th.

I know he won't fall that far in most drafts but there is crazy value to be had there.

 

[Banger]

I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this kid as the situation seems like it could be a perfect upside sitatuion.

- The coaching staff hasn't been happy with Crowell/West and they have been pedestrian in camp

- they have terrific run blocking and will focus the offense around the run

- Duke apparently impressed the staff a great deal in OTAs so much so they've been vocally frustrated that he's been dinged up because they have big plans for him

- good skillset ... great playmaker and receiver

- his cost is a mid to late round flier

It seems like he could be a HUGE value for very little cost....what am I missing?

Duke hasn't been practicing or playing in games. The coaching staff isn't happy about any of the backs, that includes him...

What you're missing is a big bucket of water to clear up this muddy situation.

the problem is once the situation has been "settled" his value will be a 4th round pick...

Personally, I prefer to look for cloudy situations with good potential upside and buying the upside guy that I think will emerge on the cheap. If he comes out and has an Ameer Abdullah debut next week it's too late to get the premium value and the cat is out of the bag. Every fanstasy site will be on the bandwagon and he'll rocket up the boards. Also, if he doesn't work out his price tag is cheap enough that you drop him in the first few weeks for the hot waiver pickup. The perfect low cost, high upside risk that can make a big difference during the season.