DWill outperforms Deshaun (1 Viewer)

[cstu]

D.Will is a great kid and has the heart of a champion.

Foster is the guy and D.Will is the back-up.

Fosters is such a sexy pick. He has great power but also top gear speed and excellent hands. He plays 16 games this season and your looking at a top 12 RB hands down.

D.Will will help Foster stay fresh by taking a series or 2 a game. Williams is not every down back material in my eyes. Unless he really adds more muscle next year he looks like a career change of pace/3rd down back KR. I really mean that. I know how much talent he has, but he is small and runs small. I need to see him run harder and take on guys a little more. Foster runs very hard and can bounce it outside. Big difference.

Dwill: 5-9, 217Emmit: 5-10, 216

Payton: 5-10, 202

LT: 5-10, 221

Tiki: 5-10, 205

Barry Sanders: 5-8, 200

Priest: 5-9, 213

you're right, he'll never make it at that size...

He's practically a scrawny midget at 5'9, 217.

You are not reading what I am saying he runs small. He goes down easy.Those guy's ran hard and run hard.

D Will is no barry, Emmit, LT, or Payton.

What else you got.

I got that "runs small" is about as meaningless buzzspeak as "explosive" and means absolutely nothing. Also you said "Unless he really adds more muscle next year he looks like a career change of pace/3rd down back KR. I really mean that." All I get is that you have never seen the kid run in college, didn't watch last night's game, and know nothing about him. You're now trying to change your story to this "runs small" BS and ignore that you made a statement saying that he need to add muscle ie get BIGGER to be a true nfl back. IF you don't like something about his running style say what it is and back it up some stats or specific game experiences.

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he will need to add more muscle to last and be able to run that way and be an all purpse every down player in the NFL.

where are you getting this stuff??

OK,Forget what he did in College against mostly subpar talent. I am only telling you what I have observed this entire pre-season. I have watched every pre-season game of every team thus far. I am going on an NFL sample not a college sample. I watch the pre-season to get an opinion of how they( rookies) will play in the pro game. Last night he did play well. But I also saw him look to turn everything outside for the most part against the Fins first teamers. I also watched him the previous 2 weeks go down on first contact easily. He does not appear to be a very strong RB It is just my opinion. Stats to back up what??? He has not played in the regular season, and I am basing it on first impressions. Of course he could develop into a very good pro, and I stated that. But I think he does have to add more muscle to do it because he looks like he can get trounced. As far as where am I getting this stuff I can tell you that Tiki Barber added a ton of strength to his frame to endure the pounding of being a feature back. Willie Parker appears stronger this year as well to endure the pounding of becoming a featute back and running inside. Williams will have to devlop a great off-season program to endure an NFL season. It is an adjustment a lot of great pro backs have made. De-Angelo is not ready to be a feature guy in eyes right now. And there is a decent chance he will never be.

You have you opinion I have mine let's leave it at that.

As I recall, FWP did pretty well last year despite being a very small back. I think it's funny that you'll ignore 4 years of college (I know, subpar competition, like LT) and judge him after a couple weeks of preseason. His blocking is suspect, but generally that's the hardest part of the game for rookies to pick. I think the job is Foster's but given his history it would be shocking if he stays healthy and doesn't end up losing his job to Williams.

 

[sholditch]

I don't get the line of thinking that a back has to be big to make it. There are tons, some the greatest to ever play the position, who have been small and very, very productive. Furthermore, DWill is not small. That's why I asked about his body fat.

 

[switz]

Everything I have seen, more than one play, tells me that DeShaun is an average short yardage runner.

I'm guessing you haven't seen much then.

Why do people always come back with comments like this? It is more odd that it comes from you switz.But if it helps to clarify the situation I was at UCLA in 1999, 2000, 2001 & 2002 saw the whole DeShaun era actually. Been watching him for his whole NFL career too, at least the games he was not on IR.I think I have seen him enough to have formulated an informed opinion. He is not Bus, he is not even Zack Crockett DeShaun is an average short yardage guy.It isn't an insult.

It just seems from everything I saw, I loved him as a Bruin, that's he's shown solid power. He's not a Bettis or Crockett because he's not a 240 pound RB. That's a bit unrealistic. But he has shown alot of power for a starting NFL RB. It's not a weakness that would lead to him getting pulled at GL IMO.I've seen alot of people this year make what appear to be absurd comments, and it seems many are posting uninfomred opinions. I should take a look at who did the posting before assuming that though.I guess we probably disagree on what we consider "power" and that would cause us to disagree on Foster. I've just seen a number of times where he's pushed through tacklers, even last night, a number of carries where he get back to the line, or even further when a weak RB would have been down behind the line.

 

[JAMMIN]

What a waste of time on a backup rb. Why are we analyzing his body fat and his weight? This guy is an expensive handcuff and thats it. The job is Fosters to lose.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I'm suprised anyone would question whether or not Foster runs with power, because if you watch him enough, you can't help but notice that he does. It might have contributed to a few of his injuries, such as the broken collarbone, because he fights so hard for every yard.

I'm not a big fan of Williams, but I'd be a fool to really judge a guy based on his first 20 or so carries as a pro. He'll have to start having some success against first team defenses for me to really start believing he's even a remote threat to Foster this year.

 

[GDogg]

Williams tendency to break everything to the outside still worries me. I want to see some instincts to run it up the gut when the outside containment is there instead of always trying to race them to the corner. His speed and moves in the open field are excellent, no doubt about it, but I wonder if he's going to be cut out for short yardage... paging Nick Goings.

FWIW I thought Foster was a little guilty of this last night as well. One particular 3rd down in the 1st series stuck out to me where on 3rd and short Foster tried to bounce it out to the right and got caught by 3 Dolphins for a loss. If he had ducked his head and plowed forward behind his blockers I think he would of had it.Both guys stuck out to me as speed demons and quickness freaks, lots of sliding through their blocks and some dancing, not as much powering thru. I'm worried Carolina is sorely going to miss Stephen Davis to pick up the tough yards this year.

Foster has plenty of Power. You will see it this year. Trust me.

What are you basing this statement on? I have watched DeShaun since his UCLA days and he has never demonstrated anything other than average power and limited durability to me.Forgive me for not trusting you on this but I would like to see something, anything, to justify that statement.

Did you really watch DeShaun at UCLA? He was one of the most powerful runners while at UCLA that I have seen. His stiff arm was incredible. DeShaun routinely faced 8+ guys in the box while at UCLA because Toledo was so predictable with his play-calling and Cory Paus (QB) was terrible. Not only that, but UCLA had a terrific defense at that point and would just grind teams with the run.DeShaun would run over, and around, players while at UCLA and was great in short-yardage and goalline situations. I trust that you watched him, but perhaps you forgot how he looked at UCLA and the way they played back then.

 

[cobalt_27]

The moment from Williams' evening that is frozen in my mind is that run that he started to stretch to the right side, but there was a Dolphin safety or corner there to meet him in the hole (#28, I think??). So Williams gives him a shoulder-shake, bounces it quickly further outside to get the defensive back to commit that way, and then just as quickly cut it back inside. Left that guy staggered and grasping at air. That was special.

That was the litmus test right there. I know the tendency for him is to break outside, but he juked outside and cut back in, breaking some arm tackles in the process. Was that his 9- or 15-yarder? Either way, the quickness in his decision-making and burst past the defenders was eye-opening.

 

[Todem]

fine but I'm just wondering whether you think that he has flab or too much body fat or what? Because 217 is pretty big for a guy his height. His coach, who has seen more of him than any of us, said the he is not small but short. He seemed pretty high on his strength and size. Then of course there is the fact that they drafted him in the first round, so everyone in the Panthers orgnaization seems to disagree with you.Also, a rookie going down on first contact in the preseason seems pretty common to me. Hell, Ronnie Bron went down on first contact a LOT last night.I don't think that DWill will ever be a pile-pusher or a pwoer back, but I am 100% certain that he has all the tools necessary to be an every-down back and a feature back in the NFL in the future. HE, like Tiki and LT, wll get his by making people miss, something he showed the ability to do all the way through college, and showed again last night. If he is not the starting back in Carolina in 07 I will come back on this board and tell everyone you were right.

Fair enough.

 

[cobalt_27]

I don't get the line of thinking that a back has to be big to make it.

I think it's because guys like TJ Duckett and Najeh Davenport and Ironhead Heyward have so dominated football over the years, while guys like Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson, et al., don't get the pub because they're more "smallish" backs.

 

[lod2005]

D.Will is a great kid and has the heart of a champion.Foster is the guy and D.Will is the back-up. Fosters is such a sexy pick. He has great power but also top gear speed and excellent hands. He plays 16 games this season and your looking at a top 12 RB hands down.D.Will will help Foster stay fresh by taking a series or 2 a game. Williams is not every down back material in my eyes. Unless he really adds more muscle next year he looks like a career change of pace/3rd down back KR. I really mean that. I know how much talent he has, but he is small and runs small. I need to see him run harder and take on guys a little more. Foster runs very hard and can bounce it outside. Big difference.

Dwill: 5-9, 217Emmit: 5-10, 216Payton: 5-10, 202LT: 5-10, 221Tiki: 5-10, 205Barry Sanders: 5-8, 200Priest: 5-9, 213you're right, he'll never make it at that size...

He's practically a scrawny midget at 5'9, 217.

You are not reading what I am saying he runs small. He goes down easy.Those guy's ran hard and run hard. D Will is no barry, Emmit, LT, or Payton.What else you got.

Yet.....

 

[Todem]

D.Will is a great kid and has the heart of a champion.Foster is the guy and D.Will is the back-up. Fosters is such a sexy pick. He has great power but also top gear speed and excellent hands. He plays 16 games this season and your looking at a top 12 RB hands down.D.Will will help Foster stay fresh by taking a series or 2 a game. Williams is not every down back material in my eyes. Unless he really adds more muscle next year he looks like a career change of pace/3rd down back KR. I really mean that. I know how much talent he has, but he is small and runs small. I need to see him run harder and take on guys a little more. Foster runs very hard and can bounce it outside. Big difference.

Dwill: 5-9, 217Emmit: 5-10, 216Payton: 5-10, 202LT: 5-10, 221Tiki: 5-10, 205Barry Sanders: 5-8, 200Priest: 5-9, 213you're right, he'll never make it at that size...

He's practically a scrawny midget at 5'9, 217.

You are not reading what I am saying he runs small. He goes down easy.Those guy's ran hard and run hard. D Will is no barry, Emmit, LT, or Payton.What else you got.

Yet.....

Maybe But it is so easy to say oh Barry and Tiki are small and they made it.I am not saying a guy has to be big. He has to run hard all the time to make it in this league.I love small backs who make it. I was all over Willie Parker last year in the very late rounds of drafts. I have Tiki and Dunn on my teams. I am probably jumping the gun on Williams, I agree.I should at least watch him play a season and make a fair assement. I was just going off what I have seen thus far.LT did play against lousy college talent, but it was plain as day when he was a rookie he was special and he was going to be a force. There are many who are quick to annoint Williams an NFL star in the making based on his college play and some pre-season so it goes both ways. But Jerome Harrison as just as much chance to make it big than De-Angelo Williams.

 

[rolyaTy]

D.Will is a great kid and has the heart of a champion.Foster is the guy and D.Will is the back-up. Fosters is such a sexy pick. He has great power but also top gear speed and excellent hands. He plays 16 games this season and your looking at a top 12 RB hands down.D.Will will help Foster stay fresh by taking a series or 2 a game. Williams is not every down back material in my eyes. Unless he really adds more muscle next year he looks like a career change of pace/3rd down back KR. I really mean that. I know how much talent he has, but he is small and runs small. I need to see him run harder and take on guys a little more. Foster runs very hard and can bounce it outside. Big difference.

Dwill: 5-9, 217Emmit: 5-10, 216Payton: 5-10, 202LT: 5-10, 221Tiki: 5-10, 205Barry Sanders: 5-8, 200Priest: 5-9, 213you're right, he'll never make it at that size...

He's practically a scrawny midget at 5'9, 217.

You are not reading what I am saying he runs small. He goes down easy.Those guy's ran hard and run hard. D Will is no barry, Emmit, LT, or Payton.What else you got.

So he's not a hall of fame player? Good point.He's scrawny, a midget, and he can't even make it into the NFL HOF as a rookie with only a few pre-season games under his belt. You're right, he's NFL toast.

Time will tell.It is just an opinion, we obviously disagree. But when I watch pre-season it is only to watch rookies and guy's fighting for their roster lives. Williams has shown no real ability to run with any power. It will hurt him in the long run. But your right, it has only been pre-season. But that is the first impression I am getting. I don't doubt his talent. But he will need more than that. He will need to run with power and stick his nose inside and he will need to add more muscle to last and be able to run that way and be an all purpse every down player in the NFL. It may take a few years for him to develop into that. Like Tiki and Dunn did. That is all I am trying to point out.

And I'm not saying he's HOF material.What I am saying is that his height and weight isn't a knock against him. Neither should a few preseason games.He doesn't need to get taller, he doesn't need more weight, what he needs is opportunities to show what he can do, in real game situations. Until then, speculation on our part is just speculation. He has a good college career, he's of a size RB where people have been successful, and he's shown flashes of talent. To me, that's enough to not knock him before he's played a real NFL down. That's all i'm trying to get across...no reason to put him down yet, but at the same time, no reason to elavate him either.

 

[Todem]

D.Will is a great kid and has the heart of a champion.Foster is the guy and D.Will is the back-up. Fosters is such a sexy pick. He has great power but also top gear speed and excellent hands. He plays 16 games this season and your looking at a top 12 RB hands down.D.Will will help Foster stay fresh by taking a series or 2 a game. Williams is not every down back material in my eyes. Unless he really adds more muscle next year he looks like a career change of pace/3rd down back KR. I really mean that. I know how much talent he has, but he is small and runs small. I need to see him run harder and take on guys a little more. Foster runs very hard and can bounce it outside. Big difference.

Dwill: 5-9, 217Emmit: 5-10, 216Payton: 5-10, 202LT: 5-10, 221Tiki: 5-10, 205Barry Sanders: 5-8, 200Priest: 5-9, 213you're right, he'll never make it at that size...

He's practically a scrawny midget at 5'9, 217.

You are not reading what I am saying he runs small. He goes down easy.Those guy's ran hard and run hard. D Will is no barry, Emmit, LT, or Payton.What else you got.

So he's not a hall of fame player? Good point.He's scrawny, a midget, and he can't even make it into the NFL HOF as a rookie with only a few pre-season games under his belt. You're right, he's NFL toast.

Time will tell.It is just an opinion, we obviously disagree. But when I watch pre-season it is only to watch rookies and guy's fighting for their roster lives. Williams has shown no real ability to run with any power. It will hurt him in the long run. But your right, it has only been pre-season. But that is the first impression I am getting. I don't doubt his talent. But he will need more than that. He will need to run with power and stick his nose inside and he will need to add more muscle to last and be able to run that way and be an all purpse every down player in the NFL. It may take a few years for him to develop into that. Like Tiki and Dunn did. That is all I am trying to point out.

And I'm not saying he's HOF material.What I am saying is that his height and weight isn't a knock against him. Neither should a few preseason games.He doesn't need to get taller, he doesn't need more weight, what he needs is opportunities to show what he can do, in real game situations. Until then, speculation on our part is just speculation. He has a good college career, he's of a size RB where people have been successful, and he's shown flashes of talent. To me, that's enough to not knock him before he's played a real NFL down. That's all i'm trying to get across...no reason to put him down yet, but at the same time, no reason to elavate him either.

Hey I agree and retracted on my last post. I do need to see him in real live regular season action to really judge him the right wayJust have some concerns with what I saw so far in the fake season.

 

[sholditch]

I was just watching the game again at lunch and DWill did have a nice run for six yards through the middle, and managed to get two extra yards after first contact.

One thing that I really like that he has shown me is that when he hits the LOS he is running at full speed. A lot of rookie backs dance behind the line too much, and he doesn't seem to do that. Going to watch more after work

Want to see if Todem's theory about him going down too easy has any merit. No offense, but haven't seen much proof yet, cept when he was collared behind the line. Doubt anyone could have broken that, cept for Payton.

 

[Todem]

I was just watching the game again at lunch and DWill did have a nice run for six yards through the middle, and managed to get two extra yards after first contact.One thing that I really like that he has shown me is that when he hits the LOS he is running at full speed. A lot of rookie backs dance behind the line too much, and he doesn't seem to do that. Going to watch more after work Want to see if Todem's theory about him going down too easy has any merit. No offense, but haven't seen much proof yet, cept when he was collared behind the line. Doubt anyone could have broken that, cept for Payton.

I really observed this in his second pre-season game.Last night he did look better.