[DYNASTY] 2009 Top 12 Rookie Rankings (2 Viewers)

[broncofan13000]

I see 3 tiers of impact dynasty players right now in PPR:1) McCoy, Moreno, Crabtree2) Green, Harvin, Maclin, Wells3) Stafford, Sanchez, BrownThose 10 should be good NFL players in time regardless of where they go, IMO. I'm least convinced of Wells and Stafford from that list.

I think Nicks and Britt should be added to the 3rd group (especially in ppr). I would take both over the QB's. (Also i see Wells in the first tier, but i can understand why people are hesitant with him)

Ehhh..I'd put them in the next tier but they could round out the first round. I think they are at the point where you really should be taking one of the QBs, assuming they go in the top 20 picks, before Nicks or Britt.

Unless its 6pnts a pass TD, i'm not taking a qb before a top end WR prospect. But to each his own...eta:

First round QBs take years to develop and bust more often than most positions. Even when they pan out, they generally don't have much trade value unless you happen to get the once-a-decade Peyton Manning type of player. In PPR, I'm not sure I'd use a first round pick on any of the QBs in this group. The WR depth is too good to justify it.

Agreed.

 

[offdee]

Do most people involved in the whole scouting/draft process feel the same way? Is Kornheiser just dumber than I thought he was? Or are people split?

I can't say for sure, but I'd venture to guess that almost every scout sees him as a pure WR.Look around the NFL. Most of these slash type guys like Hines Ward, Anquan Boldin, Antwaan Randle El, and Brad Smith settle into one position and concentrate on that position.A creative team might use Harvin on 2-3 running plays per game, but he's a WR.

Personally I view Harvin as a more polished version of what Devin Hester is presently and used in many similar ways....get him the ball in space on quick WR screens, quick slants, reverses, Wildcat formation with an occasional fly pattern to keep the defenses on their toes.Basically Harvin's game will be what Bears coaches hopes Hester can evolve into.

 

[offdee]

I see 3 tiers of impact dynasty players right now in PPR:1) McCoy, Moreno, Crabtree2) Green, Harvin, Maclin, Wells3) Stafford, Sanchez, BrownThose 10 should be good NFL players in time regardless of where they go, IMO. I'm least convinced of Wells and Stafford from that list.

I'm very surprised that all of the sudden Darius Heyward-Bay is thought of as nothing special around here these days. I've voiced many times that I'm not a big fan personally, but many thought otherwise just a month ago and now I hardly even see his name thrown around in these top tier discussions anymore. Interesting.

 

[offdee]

We heard some scuttlebutt on the Shrine Game sidelines that Wells scares most NFL scouts/teams and right now they are hesitant to invest a high pick in him.

They should be scared.I've never been that high on the guy even coming into this year when majority were riding his jock as the next big thing at RB. This year he's dropped even further down my list.The guy is a decent talent, but he has limited lateral movement, marginal top end speed and worst of all is a supposed punishing runner who can't take the punishment without injuring himself. I'll pass.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I see 3 tiers of impact dynasty players right now in PPR:1) McCoy, Moreno, Crabtree2) Green, Harvin, Maclin, Wells3) Stafford, Sanchez, BrownThose 10 should be good NFL players in time regardless of where they go, IMO. I'm least convinced of Wells and Stafford from that list.

I think Nicks and Britt should be added to the 3rd group (especially in ppr). I would take both over the QB's. (Also i see Wells in the first tier, but i can understand why people are hesitant with him)

Ehhh..I'd put them in the next tier but they could round out the first round. I think they are at the point where you really should be taking one of the QBs, assuming they go in the top 20 picks, before Nicks or Britt.

Unless its 6pnts a pass TD, i'm not taking a qb before a top end WR prospect. But to each his own...eta:

First round QBs take years to develop and bust more often than most positions. Even when they pan out, they generally don't have much trade value unless you happen to get the once-a-decade Peyton Manning type of player. In PPR, I'm not sure I'd use a first round pick on any of the QBs in this group. The WR depth is too good to justify it.

Agreed.

Ehh...you two make some good points. With one of my dynasty leagues PPR and the other not, I tend to split the difference when I rank them like this. In the non-PPR, I'd take them before Hicks or Britt, I think. Heyward-Bey would be a toss up. But here's a better question: Do you feel sure enough about Hicks, Britt or Heyward-Bey to put them on that list of "pretty sure bets?"

 

[awesomeness]

I see 3 tiers of impact dynasty players right now in PPR:1) McCoy, Moreno, Crabtree2) Green, Harvin, Maclin, Wells3) Stafford, Sanchez, BrownThose 10 should be good NFL players in time regardless of where they go, IMO. I'm least convinced of Wells and Stafford from that list.

I'm very surprised that all of the sudden Darius Heyward-Bay is thought of as nothing special around here these days. I've voiced many times that I'm not a big fan personally, but many thought otherwise just a month ago and now I hardly even see his name thrown around in these top tier discussions anymore. Interesting.

yah i've also noticed that. Personally i don't like Heyward-Bey's prospects and likely won't touch him in rookie drafts. I think he's going to be a big project and i doubt he'll put up respectable FF numbers until his 3rd year if at all. His route running, pass catching, and college production are sub par imo. And NFL CBs won't have too much trouble keeping up with him on deep routes.

 

[EBF]

But here's a better question: Do you feel sure enough about Hicks, Britt or Heyward-Bey to put them on that list of "pretty sure bets?"

Those guys aren't ranked inside my top 3 WRs, but they'd be in the next cluster. Are they sure things? I wouldn't say so, but they have as much potential as just about anyone in that 8-15 range.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

But here's a better question: Do you feel sure enough about Hicks, Britt or Heyward-Bey to put them on that list of "pretty sure bets?"

Those guys aren't ranked inside my top 3 WRs, but they'd be in the next cluster. Are they sure things? I wouldn't say so, but they have as much potential as just about anyone in that 8-15 range.

Sure. But what is your list of "sure things", with the understanding that there is no real sure thing.

 

[broncofan13000]

I see 3 tiers of impact dynasty players right now in PPR:

1) McCoy, Moreno, Crabtree

2) Green, Harvin, Maclin, Wells

3) Stafford, Sanchez, Brown

Those 10 should be good NFL players in time regardless of where they go, IMO. I'm least convinced of Wells and Stafford from that list.

I think Nicks and Britt should be added to the 3rd group (especially in ppr). I would take both over the QB's. (Also i see Wells in the first tier, but i can understand why people are hesitant with him)

Ehhh..I'd put them in the next tier but they could round out the first round. I think they are at the point where you really should be taking one of the QBs, assuming they go in the top 20 picks, before Nicks or Britt.

Unless its 6pnts a pass TD, i'm not taking a qb before a top end WR prospect. But to each his own...eta:

First round QBs take years to develop and bust more often than most positions. Even when they pan out, they generally don't have much trade value unless you happen to get the once-a-decade Peyton Manning type of player.

In PPR, I'm not sure I'd use a first round pick on any of the QBs in this group. The WR depth is too good to justify it.

Agreed.

Ehh...you two make some good points. With one of my dynasty leagues PPR and the other not, I tend to split the difference when I rank them like this. In the non-PPR, I'd take them before Hicks or Britt, I think. Heyward-Bey would be a toss up. But here's a better question: Do you feel sure enough about Hicks, Britt or Heyward-Bey to put them on that list of "pretty sure bets?"

Like you said, nothing is a sure thing (especially with WR's), but all 3 of them have great potential, and would love to get any of them at the end of the first.

 

[EBF]

But here's a better question: Do you feel sure enough about Hicks, Britt or Heyward-Bey to put them on that list of "pretty sure bets?"

Those guys aren't ranked inside my top 3 WRs, but they'd be in the next cluster. Are they sure things? I wouldn't say so, but they have as much potential as just about anyone in that 8-15 range.

Sure. But what is your list of "sure things", with the understanding that there is no real sure thing.

I think Moreno, McCoy, Greene, Crabtree, Harvin, and Maclin are the safest picks. Those guys have a top notch combination of production and physical ability. With the RBs, situation will be key. There's no one in the group who has the elite talent needed to succeed regardless of situation. On the flipside, I'll be excited about those top three WRs no matter where they land.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I see 3 tiers of impact dynasty players right now in PPR:

1) McCoy, Moreno, Crabtree

2) Green, Harvin, Maclin, Wells

3) Stafford, Sanchez, Brown

Those 10 should be good NFL players in time regardless of where they go, IMO. I'm least convinced of Wells and Stafford from that list.

I think Nicks and Britt should be added to the 3rd group (especially in ppr). I would take both over the QB's. (Also i see Wells in the first tier, but i can understand why people are hesitant with him)

Ehhh..I'd put them in the next tier but they could round out the first round. I think they are at the point where you really should be taking one of the QBs, assuming they go in the top 20 picks, before Nicks or Britt.

Unless its 6pnts a pass TD, i'm not taking a qb before a top end WR prospect. But to each his own...eta:

First round QBs take years to develop and bust more often than most positions. Even when they pan out, they generally don't have much trade value unless you happen to get the once-a-decade Peyton Manning type of player.

In PPR, I'm not sure I'd use a first round pick on any of the QBs in this group. The WR depth is too good to justify it.

Agreed.

Ehh...you two make some good points. With one of my dynasty leagues PPR and the other not, I tend to split the difference when I rank them like this. In the non-PPR, I'd take them before Hicks or Britt, I think. Heyward-Bey would be a toss up. But here's a better question: Do you feel sure enough about Hicks, Britt or Heyward-Bey to put them on that list of "pretty sure bets?"

Like you said, nothing is a sure thing (especially with WR's), but all 3 of them have great potential, and would love to get any of them at the end of the first.

Fair enough. I saw a mock with Heyward-Bey in the first which would change my thinking if it happened.

 

[el centro]

^^BUMP^^ for new insight

 

[EBF]

^^BUMP^^ for new insight

I'll post a new list eventually. McCoy and Nicks are rising. Moreno might be falling. I'm trying to figure out Donald Brown. He'll certainly be a factor early in drafts, but I don't know where I like him.

 

[aposulli]

^^BUMP^^ for new insight

Not much new information has come to light since the end of the college season, but let's see some new rankings EBF!My top 12 at this point (non-PPR) looks like this:1. WR Michael Crabtree**2. RB LeSean McCoy**3. RB Knowshon Moreno**4. WR Jeremy Maclin**5. RB Chris Wells*6. WR Percy Harvin*7. WR Darrius Heyward-Bey*8. QB Matthew Stafford*9. RB Shonn Greene*10. WR Hakeem Nicks*11. RB Donald Brown*12. WR Kenny Britt*The top 3 are tough to rank, and I'm changing my mind constantly on them.Maclin is definitely my #2 WR, and I almost certainly won't have him lower than 4 after the NFL draft.No definitive tiers that I can see overall, but I do like Stafford's potential more than Sanchez (who is probably 13 or 14 on my list). I like Wells more than Greene (both overrated), and Greene a bit more than Brown and Rashad Jennings (who is rising fast with his performance at Senior Bowl practices). Harvin and DHB are definitely in the their own tier of WRs because of the upside. Nicks and Britt are a bit better looking than any WRs after them, but Robiskie and Igelisias will be solid NFL WR2s IMO. Sorry EBF, can't justify Dillard in the top 15.

 

[vikingsguy22]

My take with tiers:Tier One:1. Crabtree2. Moreno3. McCoy4. MaclinTier Two:5. C. Wells6. S. Greene7. DHB8. HarvinTier Three:9. Stafford10. Britt11. D. Brown12. NicksTier Four:13. J. Dillard14. Sanchez

^^BUMP^^ for new insight

Not much new information has come to light since the end of the college season, but let's see some new rankings EBF!My top 12 at this point (non-PPR) looks like this:1. WR Michael Crabtree**2. RB LeSean McCoy**3. RB Knowshon Moreno**4. WR Jeremy Maclin**5. RB Chris Wells*6. WR Percy Harvin*7. WR Darrius Heyward-Bey*8. QB Matthew Stafford*9. RB Shonn Greene*10. WR Hakeem Nicks*11. RB Donald Brown*12. WR Kenny Britt*The top 3 are tough to rank, and I'm changing my mind constantly on them.Maclin is definitely my #2 WR, and I almost certainly won't have him lower than 4 after the NFL draft.No definitive tiers that I can see overall, but I do like Stafford's potential more than Sanchez (who is probably 13 or 14 on my list). I like Wells more than Greene (both overrated), and Greene a bit more than Brown and Rashad Jennings (who is rising fast with his performance at Senior Bowl practices). Harvin and DHB are definitely in the their own tier of WRs because of the upside. Nicks and Britt are a bit better looking than any WRs after them, but Robiskie and Igelisias will be solid NFL WR2s IMO. Sorry EBF, can't justify Dillard in the top 15.

 

[MAC_32]

Pre offseason top 12 PPR rankings1 Michael Crabtree2 Shady McCoy3 Percy Harvin4 Jeremy Maclin5 Sam Bradford6 CJ Spiller7 Shonn Greene8 Donald Brown9 Knowshon Moreno10 Beanie Wells11 Kenny Britt12 Hakeem NicksThe year of the WR.

Editing my rankings post Spiller + Bradford returning to school.1 Michael Crabtree2 Shady McCoy3 Percy Harvin4 Jeremy Maclin5 Shonn Greene6 Knowshon Moreno (looking like he's going to be drafted in round 1, he'll get the opportunity - as a player I like Donald Brown more)7 Kenny Britt8 Hakeem Nicks9 Austin Collie (I think his stock will rise soon, if not then he won't be under top 12 consideration)10 Donald Brown (the earlier he gets drafted the greater the chance he moves up, potentially as high as #5)11 Beanie Wells12 James CaseyClose - Jarrett Dillard, Derrick Williams, Deon Butler, Matt Stafford, Marc SanchezAlso, want to see more of the small school RBs like Jennings, Johnson, Moore, among others.

 

[aposulli]

Pre offseason top 12 PPR rankings1 Michael Crabtree2 Shady McCoy3 Percy Harvin4 Jeremy Maclin5 Sam Bradford6 CJ Spiller7 Shonn Greene8 Donald Brown9 Knowshon Moreno10 Beanie Wells11 Kenny Britt12 Hakeem NicksThe year of the WR.

Editing my rankings post Spiller + Bradford returning to school.1 Michael Crabtree2 Shady McCoy3 Percy Harvin4 Jeremy Maclin5 Shonn Greene6 Knowshon Moreno (looking like he's going to be drafted in round 1, he'll get the opportunity - as a player I like Donald Brown more)7 Kenny Britt8 Hakeem Nicks9 Austin Collie (I think his stock will rise soon, if not then he won't be under top 12 consideration)10 Donald Brown (the earlier he gets drafted the greater the chance he moves up, potentially as high as #5)11 Beanie Wells12 James CaseyClose - Jarrett Dillard, Derrick Williams, Deon Butler, Matt Stafford, Marc SanchezAlso, want to see more of the small school RBs like Jennings, Johnson, Moore, among others.

Hm, I actually got some misinformation- thought Collie was not declaring for the Draft. Turns out because he is 5 years removed from High School, he wasn't classified as a typical underclassman early entrant.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Pre offseason top 12 PPR rankings1 Michael Crabtree2 Shady McCoy3 Percy Harvin4 Jeremy Maclin5 Sam Bradford6 CJ Spiller7 Shonn Greene8 Donald Brown9 Knowshon Moreno10 Beanie Wells11 Kenny Britt12 Hakeem NicksThe year of the WR.

Editing my rankings post Spiller + Bradford returning to school.1 Michael Crabtree2 Shady McCoy3 Percy Harvin4 Jeremy Maclin5 Shonn Greene6 Knowshon Moreno (looking like he's going to be drafted in round 1, he'll get the opportunity - as a player I like Donald Brown more)7 Kenny Britt8 Hakeem Nicks9 Austin Collie (I think his stock will rise soon, if not then he won't be under top 12 consideration)10 Donald Brown (the earlier he gets drafted the greater the chance he moves up, potentially as high as #5)11 Beanie Wells12 James CaseyClose - Jarrett Dillard, Derrick Williams, Deon Butler, Matt Stafford, Marc SanchezAlso, want to see more of the small school RBs like Jennings, Johnson, Moore, among others.

Hm, I actually got some misinformation- thought Collie was not declaring for the Draft. Turns out because he is 5 years removed from High School, he wasn't classified as a typical underclassman early entrant.

 

[twr]

Pre offseason top 12 PPR rankings1 Michael Crabtree2 Shady McCoy3 Percy Harvin4 Jeremy Maclin5 Sam Bradford6 CJ Spiller7 Shonn Greene8 Donald Brown9 Knowshon Moreno10 Beanie Wells11 Kenny Britt12 Hakeem NicksThe year of the WR.

Editing my rankings post Spiller + Bradford returning to school.1 Michael Crabtree2 Shady McCoy3 Percy Harvin4 Jeremy Maclin5 Shonn Greene6 Knowshon Moreno (looking like he's going to be drafted in round 1, he'll get the opportunity - as a player I like Donald Brown more)7 Kenny Britt8 Hakeem Nicks9 Austin Collie (I think his stock will rise soon, if not then he won't be under top 12 consideration)10 Donald Brown (the earlier he gets drafted the greater the chance he moves up, potentially as high as #5)11 Beanie Wells12 James CaseyClose - Jarrett Dillard, Derrick Williams, Deon Butler, Matt Stafford, Marc SanchezAlso, want to see more of the small school RBs like Jennings, Johnson, Moore, among others.

Hm, I actually got some misinformation- thought Collie was not declaring for the Draft. Turns out because he is 5 years removed from High School, he wasn't classified as a typical underclassman early entrant.

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2, if he doesnt go there in your drafts, youre getting a steal.YEAR TEAM ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST2007 UGA 248 1336 5.4 80 14 0 0 0 ( 8 total games )2008 UGA 250 1400 5.6 68 16 0 0 0 ( 11 total games )Receiving StatsYEAR TEAM REC YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST2007 UGA 20 253 12.7 35 0 0 0 0 ^^^^2008 UGA 33 392 11.9 37 2 0 0 0 ^^^^

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Question for the draft gurus:

What 5 rookies do you think will significantly raise their draft stock the most at the combine?

 

[FUBAR]

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2,

I won't make the leap from Moreno to Walker as a comparison (not that you compare them as players) or say top 2, but there is zero doubt IMO that Moreno will go top 4. He might fall behind McCoy/Wells/Crabtree, but he will not last to 6. Wells shouldn't fall out of the top 4 either.

 

[offdee]

Question for the draft gurus:What 5 rookies do you think will significantly raise their draft stock the most at the combine?

Darius Heyward-Bay will be the biggest riser based on measurables. But, it will be another Troy Williamson situation on the field.

 

[MAC_32]

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2, if he doesnt go there in your drafts, youre getting a steal.

I think Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, and Shady all have elite potential. RB's and WR's with elite potential get ranked above everyone else on my board. I think Moreno has a Marshawn Lynch-like ceiling, which is good but not great, unless any of the above players end up in horrendous situations and Moreno ends up in a great one he won't leap frog any of them on my board. I can see a case being made for Moreno 5th, if he falls into a good situation and Greene does not I will undoubtebly switch them on my board. The only player outside of the top 4 I see with elite potential is Beanie Wells, but his frightenly high bust risk due to high levels of Charmin in his game will keep him far away from my top 5, regardless of where he goes.

 

[MAC_32]

Question for the draft gurus:What 5 rookies do you think will significantly raise their draft stock the most at the combine?

Darius Heyward-Bay will be the biggest riser based on measurables. But, it will be another Troy Williamson situation on the field.

Others off the top of my head - Michael Johnson (DE) and Josh Freeman (QB)

 

[twr]

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2,

I won't make the leap from Moreno to Walker as a comparison (not that you compare them as players) or say top 2, but there is zero doubt IMO that Moreno will go top 4. He might fall behind McCoy/Wells/Crabtree, but he will not last to 6. Wells shouldn't fall out of the top 4 either.

actually i compare moreno alot to portis, eventually ( year or 2) he will get up to about 215-218, and be a workhorse with very good hands coming out of the backfield. i was just pointing out the fact hes the first player since mr walker to accomplish that for uga, and that was behind a very young offensive line.... he may not have 4.3 or sub 4.4 speed, but sometimes you have to put down the watch and watch the football player.

 

[EBF]

The problem with Moreno is that he's slow. That doesn't mean he can't be an effective pro back, but he really doesn't have great sustained speed.

When Portis came into the league at about 200 pounds, he had 4.3 type speed and an elite burst. Moreno is quick laterally, but he's a bit sluggish North-South and he won't run away from NFL defenders like Portis did.

Moreno is more along the lines of Carnell Williams and Marshawn Lynch. He reminds me of a hybrid of those two. I'm very curious to see his official height/weight and his combine numbers. He's slipping down my board a bit because I question whether or not he's a special enough athlete to be a special pro back. I doubt he'll be an outright bust, but he might not be worthy of his current top 15-20 hype.

 

[twr]

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2, if he doesnt go there in your drafts, youre getting a steal.

I think Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, and Shady all have elite potential. RB's and WR's with elite potential get ranked above everyone else on my board. I think Moreno has a Marshawn Lynch-like ceiling, which is good but not great, unless any of the above players end up in horrendous situations and Moreno ends up in a great one he won't leap frog any of them on my board. I can see a case being made for Moreno 5th, if he falls into a good situation and Greene does not I will undoubtebly switch them on my board. The only player outside of the top 4 I see with elite potential is Beanie Wells, but his frightenly high bust risk due to high levels of Charmin in his game will keep him far away from my top 5, regardless of where he goes.

a lynch ceiling is probably very comparable, but i think he will be far more useful in the passing game, which ups his value... he also has an incredible motor, which is something you cant teach... alot of people knocked ryan last year for his measurables.... i drafted him at 1.5, which was then thought to be considerably early... trust me, moreno isnt a guy you want to pass up 4 picks into a draft, regardless of his situation. if he has a good 40 time at the combine i think alot of people will change their mind.

 

[EBF]

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2, if he doesnt go there in your drafts, youre getting a steal.

I think Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, and Shady all have elite potential. RB's and WR's with elite potential get ranked above everyone else on my board. I think Moreno has a Marshawn Lynch-like ceiling, which is good but not great, unless any of the above players end up in horrendous situations and Moreno ends up in a great one he won't leap frog any of them on my board. I can see a case being made for Moreno 5th, if he falls into a good situation and Greene does not I will undoubtebly switch them on my board. The only player outside of the top 4 I see with elite potential is Beanie Wells, but his frightenly high bust risk due to high levels of Charmin in his game will keep him far away from my top 5, regardless of where he goes.

a lynch ceiling is probably very comparable, but i think he will be far more useful in the passing game, which ups his value... he also has an incredible motor, which is something you cant teach... alot of people knocked ryan last year for his measurables.... i drafted him at 1.5, which was then thought to be considerably early... trust me, moreno isnt a guy you want to pass up 4 picks into a draft, regardless of his situation. if he has a good 40 time at the combine i think alot of people will change their mind.

I don't disagree that he'd be hard to pass up somewhere in the top 4, but if his combine numbers are borderline then it's certainly worth factoring into your evaluation. Everything that you said about Moreno also applied to Cadillac Williams. Even when he was healthy, he looked like a fairly average NFL back.

 

[FUBAR]

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2, if he doesnt go there in your drafts, youre getting a steal.

I think Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, and Shady all have elite potential. RB's and WR's with elite potential get ranked above everyone else on my board. I think Moreno has a Marshawn Lynch-like ceiling, which is good but not great, unless any of the above players end up in horrendous situations and Moreno ends up in a great one he won't leap frog any of them on my board. I can see a case being made for Moreno 5th, if he falls into a good situation and Greene does not I will undoubtebly switch them on my board. The only player outside of the top 4 I see with elite potential is Beanie Wells, but his frightenly high bust risk due to high levels of Charmin in his game will keep him far away from my top 5, regardless of where he goes.

I won't disagree with that, but what do you see in Greene that warrants a higher pick right now?I see nothing wrong with drafting a 15RB range back with a top 4 rookie pick. IMO his bust potential is lower than most, even McCoy.

 

[awesomeness]

Moreno's stock will fall at the combine imo. To be honest, i would be surprised if he ran anything less than a 4.50. I predict Moreno will run between a 4.50-4.55. The fastest back with a high caliber looks like its going to be LeSean. I'm hoping LeSean can run a 4.45, anything else is gravy. And i think Beanie will run in between Moreno and McCoy, something like a 4.48-4.53.

I think CJ Spiller made a pretty big mistake in going back to school. If he ran a 4.35 or something similar which i wouldn't doubt in the least, he could have easily been a late first round pick imo.

 

[jurb26]

Moreno's stock will fall at the combine imo. To be honest, i would be surprised if he ran anything less than a 4.50. I predict Moreno will run between a 4.50-4.55. The fastest back with a high caliber looks like its going to be LeSean. I'm hoping LeSean can run a 4.45, anything else is gravy. And i think Beanie will run in between Moreno and McCoy, something like a 4.48-4.53. I think CJ Spiller made a pretty big mistake in going back to school. If he ran a 4.35 or something similar which i wouldn't doubt in the least, he could have easily been a late first round pick imo.

McCoy is fast, very fast. He should easily run bellow 4.5. I'd project him to run in the range of 4.38-4.44.

 

[awesomeness]

Moreno's stock will fall at the combine imo. To be honest, i would be surprised if he ran anything less than a 4.50. I predict Moreno will run between a 4.50-4.55. The fastest back with a high caliber looks like its going to be LeSean. I'm hoping LeSean can run a 4.45, anything else is gravy. And i think Beanie will run in between Moreno and McCoy, something like a 4.48-4.53. I think CJ Spiller made a pretty big mistake in going back to school. If he ran a 4.35 or something similar which i wouldn't doubt in the least, he could have easily been a late first round pick imo.

McCoy is fast, very fast. He should easily run bellow 4.5. I'd project him to run in the range of 4.38-4.44.

He doesn't look like a guy who runs a sub 4.4. I'll guess 4.43-4.46.

 

[twr]

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2, if he doesnt go there in your drafts, youre getting a steal.

I think Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, and Shady all have elite potential. RB's and WR's with elite potential get ranked above everyone else on my board. I think Moreno has a Marshawn Lynch-like ceiling, which is good but not great, unless any of the above players end up in horrendous situations and Moreno ends up in a great one he won't leap frog any of them on my board. I can see a case being made for Moreno 5th, if he falls into a good situation and Greene does not I will undoubtebly switch them on my board. The only player outside of the top 4 I see with elite potential is Beanie Wells, but his frightenly high bust risk due to high levels of Charmin in his game will keep him far away from my top 5, regardless of where he goes.

a lynch ceiling is probably very comparable, but i think he will be far more useful in the passing game, which ups his value... he also has an incredible motor, which is something you cant teach... alot of people knocked ryan last year for his measurables.... i drafted him at 1.5, which was then thought to be considerably early... trust me, moreno isnt a guy you want to pass up 4 picks into a draft, regardless of his situation. if he has a good 40 time at the combine i think alot of people will change their mind.

I don't disagree that he'd be hard to pass up somewhere in the top 4, but if his combine numbers are borderline then it's certainly worth factoring into your evaluation. Everything that you said about Moreno also applied to Cadillac Williams. Even when he was healthy, he looked like a fairly average NFL back.

why did caddy miss 2002 and 2003 in college?i can see the comparison, but moreno's longest rush for his career is much longer than caddy ( 80 to 55 ), better YPC with a worse offensive line, better reception stats... i know caddy competed for carries with ronnie brown during the 2004 season, but i think moreno is a better athlete. personally i think moreno compares more to brown, than williams. ( despite the weight )

 

[jurb26]

Moreno's stock will fall at the combine imo. To be honest, i would be surprised if he ran anything less than a 4.50. I predict Moreno will run between a 4.50-4.55. The fastest back with a high caliber looks like its going to be LeSean. I'm hoping LeSean can run a 4.45, anything else is gravy. And i think Beanie will run in between Moreno and McCoy, something like a 4.48-4.53. I think CJ Spiller made a pretty big mistake in going back to school. If he ran a 4.35 or something similar which i wouldn't doubt in the least, he could have easily been a late first round pick imo.

McCoy is fast, very fast. He should easily run bellow 4.5. I'd project him to run in the range of 4.38-4.44.

He doesn't look like a guy who runs a sub 4.4. I'll guess 4.3-4.6.

Well, McCoy has been timed as low as 4.25 in the past. Just an FYI.

 

[EBF]

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2, if he doesnt go there in your drafts, youre getting a steal.

I think Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, and Shady all have elite potential. RB's and WR's with elite potential get ranked above everyone else on my board. I think Moreno has a Marshawn Lynch-like ceiling, which is good but not great, unless any of the above players end up in horrendous situations and Moreno ends up in a great one he won't leap frog any of them on my board. I can see a case being made for Moreno 5th, if he falls into a good situation and Greene does not I will undoubtebly switch them on my board. The only player outside of the top 4 I see with elite potential is Beanie Wells, but his frightenly high bust risk due to high levels of Charmin in his game will keep him far away from my top 5, regardless of where he goes.

a lynch ceiling is probably very comparable, but i think he will be far more useful in the passing game, which ups his value... he also has an incredible motor, which is something you cant teach... alot of people knocked ryan last year for his measurables.... i drafted him at 1.5, which was then thought to be considerably early... trust me, moreno isnt a guy you want to pass up 4 picks into a draft, regardless of his situation. if he has a good 40 time at the combine i think alot of people will change their mind.

I don't disagree that he'd be hard to pass up somewhere in the top 4, but if his combine numbers are borderline then it's certainly worth factoring into your evaluation. Everything that you said about Moreno also applied to Cadillac Williams. Even when he was healthy, he looked like a fairly average NFL back.

why did caddy miss 2002 and 2003 in college?i can see the comparison, but moreno's longest rush for his career is much longer than caddy ( 80 to 55 ), better YPC with a worse offensive line, better reception stats... i know caddy competed for carries with ronnie brown during the 2004 season, but i think moreno is a better athlete. personally i think moreno compares more to brown, than williams. ( despite the weight )

Brown ran a 4.43 at 233 pounds. I don't think Moreno has that kind of speed (nevermind the fact that he's probably 10-20 pounds lighter).Some guys are workout warriors with no football skills. Other guys are great football players with mediocre workout numbers.I'm very curious to see how Moreno does at the combine because he looks like a guy who might fall into the second category.That's certainly not a death sentence as far as his career is concerned, but it's something to make note of.

 

[EBF]

McCoy looks quicker than fast. I'd peg him as a mid-low 4.4 guy.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Well, McCoy has been timed as low as 4.25 in the past. Just an FYI.

That may be true, but he's never run anywhere close to that.

 

[jurb26]

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2, if he doesnt go there in your drafts, youre getting a steal.

I think Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, and Shady all have elite potential. RB's and WR's with elite potential get ranked above everyone else on my board. I think Moreno has a Marshawn Lynch-like ceiling, which is good but not great, unless any of the above players end up in horrendous situations and Moreno ends up in a great one he won't leap frog any of them on my board. I can see a case being made for Moreno 5th, if he falls into a good situation and Greene does not I will undoubtebly switch them on my board. The only player outside of the top 4 I see with elite potential is Beanie Wells, but his frightenly high bust risk due to high levels of Charmin in his game will keep him far away from my top 5, regardless of where he goes.

a lynch ceiling is probably very comparable, but i think he will be far more useful in the passing game, which ups his value... he also has an incredible motor, which is something you cant teach... alot of people knocked ryan last year for his measurables.... i drafted him at 1.5, which was then thought to be considerably early... trust me, moreno isnt a guy you want to pass up 4 picks into a draft, regardless of his situation. if he has a good 40 time at the combine i think alot of people will change their mind.

I don't disagree that he'd be hard to pass up somewhere in the top 4, but if his combine numbers are borderline then it's certainly worth factoring into your evaluation. Everything that you said about Moreno also applied to Cadillac Williams. Even when he was healthy, he looked like a fairly average NFL back.

why did caddy miss 2002 and 2003 in college?i can see the comparison, but moreno's longest rush for his career is much longer than caddy ( 80 to 55 ), better YPC with a worse offensive line, better reception stats... i know caddy competed for carries with ronnie brown during the 2004 season, but i think moreno is a better athlete. personally i think moreno compares more to brown, than williams. ( despite the weight )

Moreno is no doubt a better athlete than Caddy IMO. He is plenty athletic and has adequate speed for a NFL RB too. People will blow his ordinary 40 time out of proportion in fantasy circles as they always do. Watch the game film.

 

[jurb26]

Well, McCoy has been timed as low as 4.25 in the past. Just an FYI.

That may be true, but he's never run anywhere close to that.

Times are obviously a bit inflated from colleges, camps and high schools. Still, they are not that inflated. McCoy should easily run bellow 4.5 and he looks faster than a 4.5 guy on the field. I'm not saying he is going to go Chris Johnson or anything. But he will likely be one of the fastest RBs at the combine IMO.

 

[twr]

moreno at 6 and 9 is pretty crazy. hes put up over 1000 yards rushing in his two seasons starting at UGA, behind a true freshman line, and a freshman and soph line this year ( injuries ). the only other UGA player to do this feat was herschel walker. knowshown will run in the 4.48 range at the combine, or might elect not to run at all... in PPR, hes going to go #1 or 2, if he doesnt go there in your drafts, youre getting a steal.

I think Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, and Shady all have elite potential. RB's and WR's with elite potential get ranked above everyone else on my board. I think Moreno has a Marshawn Lynch-like ceiling, which is good but not great, unless any of the above players end up in horrendous situations and Moreno ends up in a great one he won't leap frog any of them on my board. I can see a case being made for Moreno 5th, if he falls into a good situation and Greene does not I will undoubtebly switch them on my board. The only player outside of the top 4 I see with elite potential is Beanie Wells, but his frightenly high bust risk due to high levels of Charmin in his game will keep him far away from my top 5, regardless of where he goes.

a lynch ceiling is probably very comparable, but i think he will be far more useful in the passing game, which ups his value... he also has an incredible motor, which is something you cant teach... alot of people knocked ryan last year for his measurables.... i drafted him at 1.5, which was then thought to be considerably early... trust me, moreno isnt a guy you want to pass up 4 picks into a draft, regardless of his situation. if he has a good 40 time at the combine i think alot of people will change their mind.

I don't disagree that he'd be hard to pass up somewhere in the top 4, but if his combine numbers are borderline then it's certainly worth factoring into your evaluation. Everything that you said about Moreno also applied to Cadillac Williams. Even when he was healthy, he looked like a fairly average NFL back.

why did caddy miss 2002 and 2003 in college?i can see the comparison, but moreno's longest rush for his career is much longer than caddy ( 80 to 55 ), better YPC with a worse offensive line, better reception stats... i know caddy competed for carries with ronnie brown during the 2004 season, but i think moreno is a better athlete. personally i think moreno compares more to brown, than williams. ( despite the weight )

Brown ran a 4.43 at 233 pounds. I don't think Moreno has that kind of speed (nevermind the fact that he's probably 10-20 pounds lighter).Some guys are workout warriors with no football skills. Other guys are great football players with mediocre workout numbers.I'm very curious to see how Moreno does at the combine because he looks like a guy who might fall into the second category.That's certainly not a death sentence as far as his career is concerned, but it's something to make note of.

i traded up to the 1.1 to have my choice b/w crabtree or moreno, i believe those are the best 2 athletes in this draft, with mccoy maclin and harvin following. SEC defenses as a whole are alot faster, which imo makes his speed look only marginal... i think hes going to run a 4.45-4.48. with crabtree runnings in the 4.5's

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Ted Ginn Jr.

Rod Gardner

Michael Clayton

Kevin Dyson

R. Jay Soward

Craig Davis

Dennis Northcutt

Reggie Williams

Those first round busts group together because they're similar on two measurements. The next guy on this list? Jeremy Maclin.

I think he'll be a wasted pick and an epic fail in the NFL.

(And this is as good a place as any to give EBF a tip of the hat. A comment he made last year about me being wrong about Reggie Brown helped me find the second measure. Unfortunately not before I'd acquired Reggie Brown in all my leagues.)

 

[EBF]

i traded up to the 1.1 to have my choice b/w crabtree or moreno, i believe those are the best 2 athletes in this draft, with mccoy maclin and harvin following. SEC defenses as a whole are alot faster, which imo makes his speed look only marginal... i think hes going to run a 4.45-4.48. with crabtree runnings in the 4.5's

I think the difference in talent between the SEC and the other BCS conferences is overrated, but you can't overlook what Moreno was able to accomplish there. 4.45-4.48 isn't out of the question. Nevertheless, he's undersized (according to his listed weight) and not a true burner. That's not a great combination. Moreno is still a legitimate option in the top 3-4 of rookie drafts, but I think he's probably closer to Maroney/Lynch/Caddy than Peterson/Bush/LT. We have a tendency to exaggerate the talent of the top players in each draft class. Moreno is a solid player, but there's little to indicate that he's a freakish talent capable of dominating at the next level.

 

[jurb26]

Ted Ginn Jr.

Rod Gardner

Michael Clayton

Kevin Dyson

R. Jay Soward

Craig Davis

Dennis Northcutt

Reggie Williams

Those first round busts group together because they're similar on two measurements. The next guy on this list? Jeremy Maclin.

I think he'll be a wasted pick and an epic fail in the NFL.

(And this is as good a place as any to give EBF a tip of the hat. A comment he made last year about me being wrong about Reggie Brown helped me find the second measure. Unfortunately not before I'd acquired Reggie Brown in all my leagues.)

Ginn has not been a bust.

 

[Gottabesweet]

I'm deep at WR and pick 9th and need RB help yikes!

 

[twr]

i traded up to the 1.1 to have my choice b/w crabtree or moreno, i believe those are the best 2 athletes in this draft, with mccoy maclin and harvin following. SEC defenses as a whole are alot faster, which imo makes his speed look only marginal... i think hes going to run a 4.45-4.48. with crabtree runnings in the 4.5's

I think the difference in talent between the SEC and the other BCS conferences is overrated, but you can't overlook what Moreno was able to accomplish there. 4.45-4.48 isn't out of the question. Nevertheless, he's undersized (according to his listed weight) and not a true burner. That's not a great combination. Moreno is still a legitimate option in the top 3-4 of rookie drafts, but I think he's probably closer to Maroney/Lynch/Caddy than Peterson/Bush/LT. We have a tendency to exaggerate the talent of the top players in each draft class. Moreno is a solid player, but there's little to indicate that he's a freakish talent capable of dominating at the next level.

i agree again, im not ready to classify moreno in with those guys, just like im not ready to classify crabtree with them. i honestly think maclin has a better chance at being a better pro than crabtree... even harvin... who i think he is the next reggie bush, who will do a bit of it all, run, catch, return kicks... hes the guy that you want to have in return leagues... maclin will also have added value in return leagues...the only few prospects i can think of who were classified as greats coming out would be calvin, bush and AP, who's testings were off the charts... even LT had questions about his game... besides those, i think its always premature to classify anyone great... i think in this years class, you want to be within the top 7 picks to get a really good prospect.i think moreno is the safest pick in this draft.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Ginn has not been a bust.

Yet

 

[doubletrouble]

i traded up to the 1.1 to have my choice b/w crabtree or moreno, i believe those are the best 2 athletes in this draft, with mccoy maclin and harvin following. SEC defenses as a whole are alot faster, which imo makes his speed look only marginal... i think hes going to run a 4.45-4.48. with crabtree runnings in the 4.5's

I think the difference in talent between the SEC and the other BCS conferences is overrated, but you can't overlook what Moreno was able to accomplish there. 4.45-4.48 isn't out of the question. Nevertheless, he's undersized (according to his listed weight) and not a true burner. That's not a great combination. Moreno is still a legitimate option in the top 3-4 of rookie drafts, but I think he's probably closer to Maroney/Lynch/Caddy than Peterson/Bush/LT. We have a tendency to exaggerate the talent of the top players in each draft class. Moreno is a solid player, but there's little to indicate that he's a freakish talent capable of dominating at the next level.

i agree again, im not ready to classify moreno in with those guys, just like im not ready to classify crabtree with them. i honestly think maclin has a better chance at being a better pro than crabtree... even harvin... who i think he is the next reggie bush, who will do a bit of it all, run, catch, return kicks... hes the guy that you want to have in return leagues... maclin will also have added value in return leagues...the only few prospects i can think of who were classified as greats coming out would be calvin, bush and AP, who's testings were off the charts... even LT had questions about his game... besides those, i think its always premature to classify anyone great... i think in this years class, you want to be within the top 7 picks to get a really good prospect.

i think moreno is the safest pick in this draft.

I have 3 within top 6 so I am looking at getting 2 rbs and 1wr (mccoy/beanie,maclin and greene) trading my 1.9 to move back and gain picks next year will be my mission

 

[offdee]

Ted Ginn Jr.Rod GardnerMichael ClaytonKevin DysonR. Jay SowardCraig DavisDennis NorthcuttReggie WilliamsThose first round busts group together because they're similar on two measurements. The next guy on this list? Jeremy Maclin. I think he'll be a wasted pick and an epic fail in the NFL.(And this is as good a place as any to give EBF a tip of the hat. A comment he made last year about me being wrong about Reggie Brown helped me find the second measure. Unfortunately not before I'd acquired Reggie Brown in all my leagues.)

Care to tell us what those 2 measurements are?

 

[gheemony]

Non-PPR

1. Moreno

2. Mccoy

3. Crabtree

4. Wells

5. Greene

6. Harvin

7. Brown

8. Maclin

 

[gheemony]

EBF: when are you going to put out BMI evalutaions of the top prospects?