[DYNASTY] 2010 Top 30 Rookies (2 Viewers)

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I'm not too sure what you mean when you say "north/south ability". So maybe you could explain what that is. But if it means what i think it means, than i think Best has a lot more north/south ability than CJ Spiller does.

I saw a few Cal games this year and in each he struggled running between the tackles. The only time he was productive was to the outside. I don't see why that's going to change in the NFL.

Here's Best's

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm not too sure what you mean when you say "north/south ability". So maybe you could explain what that is. But if it means what i think it means, than i think Best has a lot more north/south ability than CJ Spiller does.

I saw a few Cal games this year and in each he struggled running between the tackles. The only time he was productive was to the outside. I don't see why that's going to change in the NFL.

Here's Best's

I've sent this to Patoons before but he refuses to accept it.

 

[Multiple Scores]

The official time is electronic and goes off of first movement...NFL Network repeatedly said during the coverage that their unofficial times are hand timed. When discussing Spiller and his quest for going lower than 4.24, Rich Eisen said "he ran a 4.28, which is hand-timed, but it can be slower and it could even be faster...we'll have to wait on the official times". Spillers times were off by a .10 of a second...which isn't bad when taking into account human error and reaction time.

But on BOTH times? I didn't see any other participant have both of their "unofficial" times altered by more than 0.1.

CJ Spiller got a phone call from Al Davis yesterday after the 4.27 time and out of fear CJ paid off the time guy to lower his time out of fear the Raiders would draft him, this has to be why it dropped by a full tenth, nothing else makes as much sense.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

that the only way for people here to pimp their guy is to knock Spiller. First it was the Mathews guys and now here come the Best guys. What's next, the Dwyer fans telling me he can out-eat Spiller?

 

[identikit]

 

[BigTex]

 

[Multiple Scores]

I'll go on record saying Spiller is the best RB hands down in this class. The hate for this guy is laughable.

 

[Christo]

Maybe it's me but doesn't this thread seem useless until we actually know where these players will get drafted?? The top RB's could end up on teams with established stars and/or RBBC teams.

Not to people who draft for talent.

 

[phthalatemagic]

seeing the some of the chatter about hardesty's stock improving after his workouts, i noticed that his former teammate LaMarcus Coker isn't mentioned anywhere. i know he transferred to a small school (Hampton) but i thought he was going to get an invitation to the combine. am i wrong?

I thought he just disappeared, I didn't know he want to Hampton, but I think you are correct. I don't see him listed as participating in the combine. Allegedly he's going to be at W&M's pro day on March 17th.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

that the only way for people here to pimp their guy is to knock Spiller. First it was the Mathews guys and now here come the Best guys. What's next, the Dwyer fans telling me he can out-eat Spiller?

This past year rushing numbers-Spiller- 216 for 1212 5.6 12Mathews- 276 for 1808 6.6 19 Facts are facts. Just b/c something is shiny doesn't mean it is worth a lot.

 

[saintfool]

seeing the some of the chatter about hardesty's stock improving after his workouts, i noticed that his former teammate LaMarcus Coker isn't mentioned anywhere. i know he transferred to a small school (Hampton) but i thought he was going to get an invitation to the combine. am i wrong?

I thought he just disappeared, I didn't know he want to Hampton, but I think you are correct. I don't see him listed as participating in the combine. Allegedly he's going to be at W&M's pro day on March 17th.

i read in some thread that mentioned small candidates where he was mentioned. i was curious to learn how he graded at the combine. i'm sure the legal issues will scare most teams away but i thought he was talented. he reportedly ran a 4.28 40 last fall. reading an interview with him leading up to the draft, he is saying all the right things and sounded like a good kid. maybe he'll dazzle at the pro day and someone will take a shot.

 

[Multiple Scores]

that the only way for people here to pimp their guy is to knock Spiller. First it was the Mathews guys and now here come the Best guys. What's next, the Dwyer fans telling me he can out-eat Spiller?

This past year rushing numbers-Spiller- 216 for 1212 5.6 12Mathews- 276 for 1808 6.6 19 Facts are facts. Just b/c something is shiny doesn't mean it is worth a lot.

Spiller plays in the ACC, what conference is Fresno in? I want to say the WAC but in reality not sure and don't feel like looking it up. Bernard Scott had better stats than just about any RB last season but there is a reason he wasn't picked ahead of every other rbs, right?

 

[phthalatemagic]

seeing the some of the chatter about hardesty's stock improving after his workouts, i noticed that his former teammate LaMarcus Coker isn't mentioned anywhere. i know he transferred to a small school (Hampton) but i thought he was going to get an invitation to the combine. am i wrong?

I thought he just disappeared, I didn't know he want to Hampton, but I think you are correct. I don't see him listed as participating in the combine. Allegedly he's going to be at W&M's pro day on March 17th.

i read in some thread that mentioned small candidates where he was mentioned. i was curious to learn how he graded at the combine. i'm sure the legal issues will scare most teams away but i thought he was talented. he reportedly ran a 4.28 40 last fall. reading an interview with him leading up to the draft, he is saying all the right things and sounded like a good kid. maybe he'll dazzle at the pro day and someone will take a shot.

NFL.com doesn't have him listed at all. My other website doesn't have him listed either. I don't remember why he was kicked off the team. Possession? It couldn't have been just a positive drug test.

 

[EBF]

that the only way for people here to pimp their guy is to knock Spiller. First it was the Mathews guys and now here come the Best guys. What's next, the Dwyer fans telling me he can out-eat Spiller?

This past year rushing numbers-Spiller- 216 for 1212 5.6 12Mathews- 276 for 1808 6.6 19 Facts are facts. Just b/c something is shiny doesn't mean it is worth a lot.

By this logic Ron Dayne was the best RB prospect ever.College production is relevant, but let's not pretend that it's a perfect indicator of pro potential.

 

[Spike]

I haven't had a chance to digest all of the workout numbers, but I watched the RBs run their 40s and saw some of the numbers from the other positions. Quick thoughts:

RISING

Golden Tate - He's short like I expected, but he ran a pair of very good times (unofficially 4.37-38, officially 4.42). He may be more like Laveranues Coles than Josh Reed. He's due for a nice bump up my board.

Montario Hardesty - One of the stars of today. I had been down on Hardesty, but he turned in a great effort today with an unofficial best of 4.49 in the 40. He also had the best marks of any RB in the vertical leap and broad jump drills.

Ben Tate - Quietly showed a good physique with quality speed for a 215+ pound back (4.45 unofficially).

Jimmy Graham - Could the former basketball player be the best receiving TE prospect in the draft? He's very fluid for his height (6'6") and he ran in the mid 4.5 range yesterday. Probably the best athlete available at the position by a wide margin.

Toby Gerhart - I wouldn't say he's rising as much as he's holding steady. He solidified his stock with a pair of solid times in the 40 (4.53 and 4.58 unofficially).

FALLING

Jonathan Dwyer - His physique was unimpressive. He appears soft and doughy with a bit of a spare tire around the midsection. He also ran poorly, clocking at 4.59 and 4.69 unofficially. Hugely disappointing for a guy who looked like a potential first rounder. Mathews, Spiller, and Best all looked much better today.

Stafon Johnson - They didn't televise his second 40 due to the non-stop 24/7 Tim Tebow lovefest, but his first time was a disappointing 4.66 unofficially. This showing combined with a ho-hum Senior Bowl week suggests that he lacks the sheer burst and explosiveness of a high end NFL back. He'll be bumped significantly down my board.

Mardy Gilyard - He vowed to prove that he's "not a 4.51 guy" this week. He did that, clocking an unofficial 4.56. Not the kind of time you want to see from a 180 pound WR. Gilyard's ceiling is clearly as a WR2 or WR3 in the NFL.

Brandon LaFell - Impressive physique, but slow time in the 40 (clocked at 4.60 unofficially).

LeGarrette Blount - One of the most overhyped players in the draft looked very bad today, running in the high 4.6 range.

Anthony Dixon - Another back who ran a pair of disappointing times (mid-high 4.6).

No comment about McCluster? I heard he had a very, very disappointing 40 time.

 

[BigTex]

that the only way for people here to pimp their guy is to knock Spiller. First it was the Mathews guys and now here come the Best guys. What's next, the Dwyer fans telling me he can out-eat Spiller?

This past year rushing numbers-Spiller- 216 for 1212 5.6 12Mathews- 276 for 1808 6.6 19 Facts are facts. Just b/c something is shiny doesn't mean it is worth a lot.

By this logic Ron Dayne was the best RB prospect ever.College production is relevant, but let's not pretend that it's a perfect indicator of pro potential.

DO NOT BRING basic elements of elementary logic into this please!

 

[BigTex]

I haven't had a chance to digest all of the workout numbers, but I watched the RBs run their 40s and saw some of the numbers from the other positions. Quick thoughts:

RISING

Golden Tate - He's short like I expected, but he ran a pair of very good times (unofficially 4.37-38, officially 4.42). He may be more like Laveranues Coles than Josh Reed. He's due for a nice bump up my board.

Montario Hardesty - One of the stars of today. I had been down on Hardesty, but he turned in a great effort today with an unofficial best of 4.49 in the 40. He also had the best marks of any RB in the vertical leap and broad jump drills.

Ben Tate - Quietly showed a good physique with quality speed for a 215+ pound back (4.45 unofficially).

Jimmy Graham - Could the former basketball player be the best receiving TE prospect in the draft? He's very fluid for his height (6'6") and he ran in the mid 4.5 range yesterday. Probably the best athlete available at the position by a wide margin.

Toby Gerhart - I wouldn't say he's rising as much as he's holding steady. He solidified his stock with a pair of solid times in the 40 (4.53 and 4.58 unofficially).

FALLING

Jonathan Dwyer - His physique was unimpressive. He appears soft and doughy with a bit of a spare tire around the midsection. He also ran poorly, clocking at 4.59 and 4.69 unofficially. Hugely disappointing for a guy who looked like a potential first rounder. Mathews, Spiller, and Best all looked much better today.

Stafon Johnson - They didn't televise his second 40 due to the non-stop 24/7 Tim Tebow lovefest, but his first time was a disappointing 4.66 unofficially. This showing combined with a ho-hum Senior Bowl week suggests that he lacks the sheer burst and explosiveness of a high end NFL back. He'll be bumped significantly down my board.

Mardy Gilyard - He vowed to prove that he's "not a 4.51 guy" this week. He did that, clocking an unofficial 4.56. Not the kind of time you want to see from a 180 pound WR. Gilyard's ceiling is clearly as a WR2 or WR3 in the NFL.

Brandon LaFell - Impressive physique, but slow time in the 40 (clocked at 4.60 unofficially).

LeGarrette Blount - One of the most overhyped players in the draft looked very bad today, running in the high 4.6 range.

Anthony Dixon - Another back who ran a pair of disappointing times (mid-high 4.6).

No comment about McCluster? I heard he had a very, very disappointing 40 time.

IIRC, he ran a 4.58?!? I'm convinced that he plays faster though. I watched him eat TT up in the Cotton Bowl two years ago.

 

[KoolKat]

that the only way for people here to pimp their guy is to knock Spiller. First it was the Mathews guys and now here come the Best guys. What's next, the Dwyer fans telling me he can out-eat Spiller?

This past year rushing numbers-Spiller- 216 for 1212 5.6 12Mathews- 276 for 1808 6.6 19 Facts are facts. Just b/c something is shiny doesn't mean it is worth a lot.

By this logic Ron Dayne was the best RB prospect ever.College production is relevant, but let's not pretend that it's a perfect indicator of pro potential.

No way! Travis Prentice was the best by far!

 

[loose circuits]

No comment about McCluster? I heard he had a very, very disappointing 40 time.

but he had the best short shuttle. I think the combine hurts him a tad, but a lot less when you consider his timed short area quicks agree with the tape

 

[coolnerd]

I haven't had a chance to digest all of the workout numbers, but I watched the RBs run their 40s and saw some of the numbers from the other positions. Quick thoughts:

RISING

Golden Tate - He's short like I expected, but he ran a pair of very good times (unofficially 4.37-38, officially 4.42). He may be more like Laveranues Coles than Josh Reed. He's due for a nice bump up my board.

Montario Hardesty - One of the stars of today. I had been down on Hardesty, but he turned in a great effort today with an unofficial best of 4.49 in the 40. He also had the best marks of any RB in the vertical leap and broad jump drills.

Ben Tate - Quietly showed a good physique with quality speed for a 215+ pound back (4.45 unofficially).

Jimmy Graham - Could the former basketball player be the best receiving TE prospect in the draft? He's very fluid for his height (6'6") and he ran in the mid 4.5 range yesterday. Probably the best athlete available at the position by a wide margin.

Toby Gerhart - I wouldn't say he's rising as much as he's holding steady. He solidified his stock with a pair of solid times in the 40 (4.53 and 4.58 unofficially).

FALLING

Jonathan Dwyer - His physique was unimpressive. He appears soft and doughy with a bit of a spare tire around the midsection. He also ran poorly, clocking at 4.59 and 4.69 unofficially. Hugely disappointing for a guy who looked like a potential first rounder. Mathews, Spiller, and Best all looked much better today.

Stafon Johnson - They didn't televise his second 40 due to the non-stop 24/7 Tim Tebow lovefest, but his first time was a disappointing 4.66 unofficially. This showing combined with a ho-hum Senior Bowl week suggests that he lacks the sheer burst and explosiveness of a high end NFL back. He'll be bumped significantly down my board.

Mardy Gilyard - He vowed to prove that he's "not a 4.51 guy" this week. He did that, clocking an unofficial 4.56. Not the kind of time you want to see from a 180 pound WR. Gilyard's ceiling is clearly as a WR2 or WR3 in the NFL.

Brandon LaFell - Impressive physique, but slow time in the 40 (clocked at 4.60 unofficially).

LeGarrette Blount - One of the most overhyped players in the draft looked very bad today, running in the high 4.6 range.

Anthony Dixon - Another back who ran a pair of disappointing times (mid-high 4.6).

No comment about McCluster? I heard he had a very, very disappointing 40 time.

Really that was the only disappointing measure...He benched well (20 reps/225 @172 pounds) , had the highest 20 yeard shuttle (4.06) in the RB group (short area quickness) , and had a strong verticle jump (explosiveness). Generally looked smooth as an athlete in hs drills and because the combination of short area quickness and explosiveness should paly faster than that 40 time.

 

[Patoons]

I'm not too sure what you mean when you say "north/south ability". So maybe you could explain what that is. But if it means what i think it means, than i think Best has a lot more north/south ability than CJ Spiller does.

I saw a few Cal games this year and in each he struggled running between the tackles. The only time he was productive was to the outside. I don't see why that's going to change in the NFL.

Here's Best's

I've seen this, yes. And, Johnny, it's not that I "refuse to accept it", it's that a large majority of the runs in this are either gigantic holes or soft team defenses. Every game I saw against a competitive team, he was stuffed at the line and was only successful to the outside. If you have a game tape against a solid defense where he isn't stuffed every time he takes it up the gut, please send it to me. I'm happy to watch and change my view, but I've seen nothing to date that'd change my opinion.

Even Reggie Bush had "between the tackles" runs that were college highlights. He's a terrible between the tackles runner. I fully accept that very few people will agree with me, but I wanted to throw it in front of the Best train.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Does anyone have short shuttle times for the prospects? I care about that a lot more than their 40 times, since rarely are RBs sprinting 40 yds in a straight line.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Does anyone have short shuttle times for the prospects? I care about that a lot more than their 40 times, since rarely are RBs sprinting 40 yds in a straight line.

Here it is although historically there is very little correlation between short shuttle or 3 cone success and NFL success. It matters much more in projecting slot/wr 2 types, but very little in rb's in my opinion.From NFL.comShort shuttleName Time McCluster, Dexter 4.06Tate, Ben 4.12Hardesty, Montario 4.14Bell, Joique 4.17Best, Jahvid 4.17Dixon, Andre 4.19Starks, James 4.23Gerhart, Toby 4.25Conner, John 4.29Mathews, Ryan 4.33Paschall, Pat 4.33

 

[saintfool]

seeing the some of the chatter about hardesty's stock improving after his workouts, i noticed that his former teammate LaMarcus Coker isn't mentioned anywhere. i know he transferred to a small school (Hampton) but i thought he was going to get an invitation to the combine. am i wrong?

I thought he just disappeared, I didn't know he want to Hampton, but I think you are correct. I don't see him listed as participating in the combine. Allegedly he's going to be at W&M's pro day on March 17th.

i read in some thread that mentioned small candidates where he was mentioned. i was curious to learn how he graded at the combine. i'm sure the legal issues will scare most teams away but i thought he was talented. he reportedly ran a 4.28 40 last fall. reading an interview with him leading up to the draft, he is saying all the right things and sounded like a good kid. maybe he'll dazzle at the pro day and someone will take a shot.

NFL.com doesn't have him listed at all. My other website doesn't have him listed either. I don't remember why he was kicked off the team. Possession? It couldn't have been just a positive drug test.

he smoked up and failed multiple drug tests. UT had a 3-4 strikes policy. he played for two years at hampton, which had a zero tolerance policy, and kept his nose clean. in fact, he was voted team captain in the 2nd year. i think he could be a steal for the right team, provided he grades out well.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I'm not too sure what you mean when you say "north/south ability". So maybe you could explain what that is. But if it means what i think it means, than i think Best has a lot more north/south ability than CJ Spiller does.

I saw a few Cal games this year and in each he struggled running between the tackles. The only time he was productive was to the outside. I don't see why that's going to change in the NFL.

Here's Best's

I'm with you. He's still a very good back, but pretending he's some great between the tackles runner is laughable.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Does anyone have short shuttle times for the prospects? I care about that a lot more than their 40 times, since rarely are RBs sprinting 40 yds in a straight line.

Here it is although historically there is very little correlation between short shuttle or 3 cone success and NFL success. It matters much more in projecting slot/wr 2 types, but very little in rb's in my opinion.From NFL.comShort shuttleName Time McCluster, Dexter 4.06Tate, Ben 4.12Hardesty, Montario 4.14Bell, Joique 4.17Best, Jahvid 4.17Dixon, Andre 4.19Starks, James 4.23Gerhart, Toby 4.25Conner, John 4.29Mathews, Ryan 4.33Paschall, Pat 4.33

Thx! BTW - have you found some correlation between 40 times and NFL success? I'm not familiar with any compelling analysis that shows the predictive power of 40 time.

 

[FUBAR]

Thx! BTW - have you found some correlation between 40 times and NFL success? I'm not familiar with any compelling analysis that shows the predictive power of 40 time.

I'll guess that backs slower than 5.0 don't do well. Backs who run 4.24 do well. Between

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

that the only way for people here to pimp their guy is to knock Spiller. First it was the Mathews guys and now here come the Best guys. What's next, the Dwyer fans telling me he can out-eat Spiller?

This past year rushing numbers-Spiller- 216 for 1212 5.6 12Mathews- 276 for 1808 6.6 19 Facts are facts. Just b/c something is shiny doesn't mean it is worth a lot.

Spiller plays in the ACC, what conference is Fresno in? I want to say the WAC but in reality not sure and don't feel like looking it up. Bernard Scott had better stats than just about any RB last season but there is a reason he wasn't picked ahead of every other rbs, right?

Please reference the Mathews thread for more info on this in regards to:-Defensive run defensive rankings-Defensive run average per carryThat is a better indication than look at the conference.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

that the only way for people here to pimp their guy is to knock Spiller. First it was the Mathews guys and now here come the Best guys. What's next, the Dwyer fans telling me he can out-eat Spiller?

This past year rushing numbers-Spiller- 216 for 1212 5.6 12Mathews- 276 for 1808 6.6 19 Facts are facts. Just b/c something is shiny doesn't mean it is worth a lot.

By this logic Ron Dayne was the best RB prospect ever.College production is relevant, but let's not pretend that it's a perfect indicator of pro potential.

I never pretended it to be a perfect indicator of pro potential...your assuming that.But you are also assuming less production by Spiller in college than Mathews will switch in the pro's b/c of....????Again reference the Mathews thread for a better breakdown of each prospect.

 

[gianmarco]

I was very impressed that Jahvid Best turned in a faster 40 time than CJ Spiller.I think taking Spiller over Best would be a huge mistake by an NFL franchise.Too early to decide which will be the higher pick in rookie drafts, as we have to see what teams they go to.But for my money, Best is the number 1 RB right now.

I know "officiallly" Best ran faster, but I have a hard time believing Spiller's unofficial time dropped a full 0.1 of a second. 4.27 to 4.37 is pretty substantial and "unofficially" I just don't think Best turned in a faster 40 time. All that said, both guys are blazing fast.

This is 100% a guess but aren't the official times electronic and the unofficial manual (stopwatch)? If so, that could easily explain a 0.1 second discrepancy.

Yes, the official times are electronic, but this was talked about by the announcers and only HALF of the time is electronic. The start is NOT electronic and is still done by hand. It's only the crossing of the finish line that is done electronically. Thus, you would actually think that the electronic times would make someone faster than if hand timed (does not account for reaction time in the stop portion).Either way, usually the official times are only slightly different than the unofficial times. Spiller's discrepancy must have been the largest of any guy timed. Again, a change in 0.1 seconds is pretty substantial, especially when the guy ran almost an identical time both times and had BOTH adjusted by so much. A friend of mine timed it multiple times with a handheld and never got more than a 4.34. I mean, we're splitting hairs here because the guy was still obviously blazing, but it just seems a bit off.

 

[Erin Go Bragh]

I was very impressed that Jahvid Best turned in a faster 40 time than CJ Spiller.I think taking Spiller over Best would be a huge mistake by an NFL franchise.Too early to decide which will be the higher pick in rookie drafts, as we have to see what teams they go to.But for my money, Best is the number 1 RB right now.

I know "officiallly" Best ran faster, but I have a hard time believing Spiller's unofficial time dropped a full 0.1 of a second. 4.27 to 4.37 is pretty substantial and "unofficially" I just don't think Best turned in a faster 40 time. All that said, both guys are blazing fast.

This is 100% a guess but aren't the official times electronic and the unofficial manual (stopwatch)? If so, that could easily explain a 0.1 second discrepancy.

Yes, the official times are electronic, but this was talked about by the announcers and only HALF of the time is electronic. The start is NOT electronic and is still done by hand. It's only the crossing of the finish line that is done electronically. Thus, you would actually think that the electronic times would make someone faster than if hand timed (does not account for reaction time in the stop portion).Either way, usually the official times are only slightly different than the unofficial times. Spiller's discrepancy must have been the largest of any guy timed. Again, a change in 0.1 seconds is pretty substantial, especially when the guy ran almost an identical time both times and had BOTH adjusted by so much. A friend of mine timed it multiple times with a handheld and never got more than a 4.34. I mean, we're splitting hairs here because the guy was still obviously blazing, but it just seems a bit off.

From Rob Rang's Combine blog at cbssports.com:There is no "official" time in the 40-yard da#### is easy to be confused by the wide range of times being reported for players' 40-yard dash times. LSU's Trindon Holliday, for example, had been reported by some as having been timed as low as 4.22 seconds and as high as 4.34 seconds. Obviously a pretty significant disparity. It's important to understand what happens to get the 40 times at the combine: . Those who participate in the 40 actually run twice, and on each run they are timed by two hand-held stopwatches and one electronic timer (that is actually initiated by hand on the player's first movement. . Combine data put together for NFL teams by National Scouting includes all six of those times for each player, but no single official time. Team scouts and coaches have various approaches for getting the 40 time they use from those six timings. Some use averages. Some throw out slowest and fastest and then average the rest. Some ignore the whole thing and use a time taken by their own scout. However, beware any 40-yard time that is labeled as "official" from the combine. In deference to the players, NFLDraftScout.com uses the best verifiable -- or listed -- time from the combine unless it is conspicuously skewed from the other times, which happens when a hand timer has an itchy trigger finger on the stopwatch. However, the times are usually well grouped.

 

[gheemony]

All of these top prospects go to performance training institutes and spend lots of time being taught to run the 40-yard dash. They are taught by guys like Michael Johnson.

What worries me about Dwyer is he looked bad running the forty. It didn't seem like he had any technique. Maybe it was a bad day. Or maybe he is not a quick learner. Or maybe he lacks work ethic? Or maybe his body shape shows lack of agility.

So while the film may allegedly show that he plays faster in pads, you can't discount his time as evidence of possible concerns. Especially when other big backs (Gerhart, Matthews) did better.

He also looked pudgy. I worry about work ethic to be elite.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Does anyone have short shuttle times for the prospects? I care about that a lot more than their 40 times, since rarely are RBs sprinting 40 yds in a straight line.

Here it is although historically there is very little correlation between short shuttle or 3 cone success and NFL success. It matters much more in projecting slot/wr 2 types, but very little in rb's in my opinion.From NFL.comShort shuttleName Time McCluster, Dexter 4.06Tate, Ben 4.12Hardesty, Montario 4.14Bell, Joique 4.17Best, Jahvid 4.17Dixon, Andre 4.19Starks, James 4.23Gerhart, Toby 4.25Conner, John 4.29Mathews, Ryan 4.33Paschall, Pat 4.33

Thx! BTW - have you found some correlation between 40 times and NFL success? I'm not familiar with any compelling analysis that shows the predictive power of 40 time.

I would say that good scores in the the 3 cone and short shuttle have the least correlation to NFL success. There are guys with every kind -even poor one- of score that become NFL backs. The are very few guys that run over 4.7 that ever amount to anything. The faster runners won't necessarily be good players, but slower runners than this lack the necessary athleticism to succeed in the NFL. As a players weight further away from 220 and moves towards 200, the closer that score needs to be to 4.4's. A couple years ago EBF did a nice job showing the average scores of the top NFL rb's in the 40, the broad jump and the vert. Very few highly productive NFL players had poor scores in any of those areas that show leg strength/explosion- to my memory, only the post surgery Frank Gore.edit: Chris Johnson and Darren McFadden have skewed many people's opinion of a decent 40 time. Any low 4.4 was previously seen as extremely good- it was the gold standard, if you had production to go with it. Now, t is crazy- see CJ Spiller. You have half the people claiming his 4.3 is a farce compared to his 4.2 unofficial, and you have other people saying that his 4.3 shows he "isn't that fast". Any 4.3 is just freakishly fast.

 

[saintfool]

Chris Johnson and Darren McFadden have skewed many people's opinion of a decent 40 time. Any low 4.4 was previously seen as extremely good- it was the gold standard, if you had production to go with it. Now, t is crazy- see CJ Spiller. You have half the people claiming his 4.3 is a farce compared to his 4.2 unofficial, and you have other people saying that his 4.3 shows he "isn't that fast". Any 4.3 is just freakishly fast.

 

[Multiple Scores]

I finally watched some games with Ryan Matthews, I had them buried on a DVD. I was REALLY impressed, I haven't watched nearly as much college ball this past year as other years.

Just curious if anyone who watches Matthews run thinks Franco Harris, I just couldn't shake that thought on almost every run he made. I could be way off since I haven't seen Harris run since I was about 10 years old!

 

[kremenull]

I finally watched some games with Ryan Matthews, I had them buried on a DVD. I was REALLY impressed, I haven't watched nearly as much college ball this past year as other years. Just curious if anyone who watches Matthews run thinks Franco Harris, I just couldn't shake that thought on almost every run he made. I could be way off since I haven't seen Harris run since I was about 10 years old!

How about a Deuce McAllister comparison? Young Deuce, not the post 2nd-ACL strictly power runner Deuce.......

 

[footballguy#1]

How would you guys compare this year's RB class to last year's class?

 

[mrgerty]

WR Eric Decker, Minnesota - Productive and tough. Not much of an athlete.

I still think you're missing the boat on him. You say he's not much of an athlete, but in addition to what he's done on the football field, he has been drafted by two different MLB teams. If he can stay healthy, he will be a productive NFL player. I'm not suggesting it will translate to huge fantasy numbers probably, but I think he'll have a decent NFL career.

Definitely an athlete. Wickedly injury prone, but carries incredible athletic ability. Amazing hands and body control. Fearless. Again- undoubtedly an athlete.

 

[loose circuits]

thought maybe these RB's deserved to be mentioned: Charles Scott LSU and James Starks Buffalothanks for the read!

Scott could be a 4th-5th round pick in the NFL draft. He has good weight and straight-line speed. He's not very agile.Starks is a Kevin Smith type coming off a serious knee injury. He'll probably get looks in the late rounds.

Scott looked like an animal with those thick legs. I think he could definitely fit a thunder role for any team. Starks helped himself at the combine as well. He just went in the early 3rd in a mock rookie draft I'm in from another board so apparently there are people that like him.

 

[D'OHtis]

Starks helped himself at the combine as well. He just went in the early 3rd in a mock rookie draft I'm in from another board so apparently there are people that like him.

Thought he was every bit as good as Donald Brown pre-injury. I could see someone like Shannahan [sp] snatching him in the later rounds.

 

[EBF]

WR Eric Decker, Minnesota - Productive and tough. Not much of an athlete.

I still think you're missing the boat on him. You say he's not much of an athlete, but in addition to what he's done on the football field, he has been drafted by two different MLB teams. If he can stay healthy, he will be a productive NFL player. I'm not suggesting it will translate to huge fantasy numbers probably, but I think he'll have a decent NFL career.

Definitely an athlete. Wickedly injury prone, but carries incredible athletic ability. Amazing hands and body control. Fearless. Again- undoubtedly an athlete.

It's all relative. Of course he's a good athlete compared to the average college player. That's why he's an NFL prospect.Is he a good athlete compared to the average NFL draft prospect? I don't think so. His speed and burst don't stand out.

 

[Go deep]

thought maybe these RB's deserved to be mentioned: Charles Scott LSU and James Starks Buffalothanks for the read!

Scott could be a 4th-5th round pick in the NFL draft. He has good weight and straight-line speed. He's not very agile.Starks is a Kevin Smith type coming off a serious knee injury. He'll probably get looks in the late rounds.

Scott looked like an animal with those thick legs. I think he could definitely fit a thunder role for any team. Starks helped himself at the combine as well. He just went in the early 3rd in a mock rookie draft I'm in from another board so apparently there are people that like him.

It depends where he goes in the NFL draft, but if he is picked in the first 3 rounds(which i think is possible) he could be picked with an early 2nd round rookie pick. Being from Buffalo, i got to see him alot, and he would have definitely been a 2nd/3rd round pick had he not got hurt last year. His combine numbers were impressive, but no real suprise if you have ever watched him play. I didnt realize just how important he was to the Bulls until i watched them play without him last year.

 

[doowain]

Gilyard ran a 4.47 today at his pro-day.

 

[EBF]

Don't look now, but Mayock has Demaryius Thomas at WR2 in his latest rankings and Pat Kirwan has him going #21 to the Bengals in his latest mock. The buzz is building...

I'll have a new list pretty soon. Maybe next week.

 

[twr]

Don't look now, but Mayock has Demaryius Thomas at WR2 in his latest rankings and Pat Kirwan has him going #21 to the Bengals in his latest mock. The buzz is building...I'll have a new list pretty soon. Maybe next week.

hes actually been listed as his #2 for at least 2 weeks nowiv been pimping Thomas to everyone... but the magazines dont seem to get it. the kid has size, speed, hands... maybe not the rock up stairs but has anyone heard peterson talk? superior intelligence isnt something needed to be a great football player. and this kid is great.

 

[Rodeojones]

Don't look now, but Mayock has Demaryius Thomas at WR2 in his latest rankings and Pat Kirwan has him going #21 to the Bengals in his latest mock. The buzz is building...I'll have a new list pretty soon. Maybe next week.

hes actually been listed as his #2 for at least 2 weeks nowiv been pimping Thomas to everyone... but the magazines dont seem to get it. the kid has size, speed, hands... maybe not the rock up stairs but has anyone heard peterson talk? superior intelligence isnt something needed to be a great football player. and this kid is great.

TWR is blind in his love for anyone coming out of the state of Georgia and still thinks KnoShow is the next coming of Marshall Faulk.

 

[VA Sundevil]

I wonder if they'll end up changing how the athletes run the 40 at the combine. With all the extra attention that the combine draws nowadays, I'd think they'd want that 'official' time and to avoid the embarassment of the NFL network's hand timing being so far off from the half-electronic timed version.

Why don't they just do it like everything else and have them start when told (by starting gun, green light, whatever) and time from that?

 

[twr]

Don't look now, but Mayock has Demaryius Thomas at WR2 in his latest rankings and Pat Kirwan has him going #21 to the Bengals in his latest mock. The buzz is building...I'll have a new list pretty soon. Maybe next week.

hes actually been listed as his #2 for at least 2 weeks nowiv been pimping Thomas to everyone... but the magazines dont seem to get it. the kid has size, speed, hands... maybe not the rock up stairs but has anyone heard peterson talk? superior intelligence isnt something needed to be a great football player. and this kid is great.

TWR is blind in his love for anyone coming out of the state of Georgia and still thinks KnoShow is the next coming of Marshall Faulk.

youre right, i love me some knowshon. just like i will love me some AJ next year... talent is talent!

 

[twr]

I wonder if they'll end up changing how the athletes run the 40 at the combine. With all the extra attention that the combine draws nowadays, I'd think they'd want that 'official' time and to avoid the embarassment of the NFL network's hand timing being so far off from the half-electronic timed version.Why don't they just do it like everything else and have them start when told (by starting gun, green light, whatever) and time from that?

because that wont just judge speed, it would judge and time reactions... something the 40 doesnt incorporate... i personally wouldnt be against it.. but its not the same thing as the 40.

 

[coolnerd]

I wonder if they'll end up changing how the athletes run the 40 at the combine. With all the extra attention that the combine draws nowadays, I'd think they'd want that 'official' time and to avoid the embarassment of the NFL network's hand timing being so far off from the half-electronic timed version.Why don't they just do it like everything else and have them start when told (by starting gun, green light, whatever) and time from that?

There is merit to this idea because players to start of of the snap of the or QBs count versus going when they are comfortable. Probably more football relevant, but as a measure of this guys is faster or not under the same conditions then a little more problematic.