I can see your point, not sure I agree, but I am very high on Julio too. How does Blackmon compare to Julio in your eyes.
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DYNASTY: 2011 Top 15 Prospects (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Real Hipster Doofus
- Start date
Instinctive
Footballguy
Boom. I can't fathom Blackmon being any lower then #1 overall. Now, my dynasty strategy involves the top WRs and then filling in any number of RBs with opportunity, which discounts Ingram in my eyes. Still though, Blackmon has deep ball abilities and possession hands, and he's a bi of a freak athlete as well. And he's been doing a lot of what he's done on an injured ankle, playing like half the snaps he would be, unhurt.
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
One guy who is pretty quickly rising in my eyes as a NFL RB prospect is Cyrus Gray out of Texas A&M. He's got good speed, good burst, decent to good size, and excellent cutting ability. What impresses me most about the kid is how excellent of a 3rd down back he is. He's great at catching the ball, and he's also a more than willing blocker who usually gets his man. And with Christine Michael returning from injury next year (who was a 5 star recruit and an excellent NFL prospect in his own right), I think Gray may come out this year as a junior as he likely won't be able to show off his skills as the feature back next year. Should be interesting to see how he does against LSU this coming Friday.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Today's Sporting News called Mark Ingram a projected second-round draft pick due to his lack of speed and pass-blocking skills.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Not sure why Ingram has garnered the slow label. Hes not chris johnson but hes not matt forte either. Guy has run a 10.69 in the 100 meter. Thats not slow.
People are over analyzing Ingram....He is a great back....Much better than any RB in last years draft
Football Jones
Footballguy
Mark Ingram is the best RB to come out in quite awhile, IMO. The lack of speed thing is a joke, LOL.
His package of tools will immediately make him one of the best RBs in the NFL. The only thing to see is what team he plays for.
His package of tools will immediately make him one of the best RBs in the NFL. The only thing to see is what team he plays for.
You don't need long speed when you have moves in the hole like Ingram does.
Check out his jukes at the 0:15 mark on his long catch.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=310010127
Check out his jukes at the 0:15 mark on his long catch.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=310010127
EBF
Footballguy
Absolutely.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
He doesnt remind me of either of those guys. Of guys who are still playing the closest comparison for me is frank gore.
Sporting News has him as their #23 prospect, so I don't see how that is consistent with 2nd round.....and they have R Williams at #10
...Now I like Williams more than most (I think he is a 1st rd pick), but wow.
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Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
Moreno ran a 4.62 40 at the combine, so just by running a 4.45-4.50 he would be running considerably faster than Moreno did. Having said that, I'm not a big fan of the combine and think it's overrated as a barometer of NFL success. Just by watching Ingram, I believe that it is clear that he definitely has the game speed to be successful in the NFL. His combination of speed, size, and agility will make him a considerably better back than either Lynch or Moreno imo. I personally like to compare him to Frank Gore, except Ingram is probably has a bit more long speed.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
No way he reminds me of Moreno. He looks a lot thicker than Moreno.
It's been said many times, but IMO it is undeniable. Ingram's number, running style, look, size, speed, game.... all look like Emmitt
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Yep, I've heard that comparison before and I can go along with it.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Moreno's best time (of the six measurements) was 4.50. If Ingram is bigger than Moreno he'll weight in north of 217 - in which case I'll change my thinking.
If Ingram is like 220 or more I actually like the Gore comparison a lot.
ETA: all I'm trying to say is that, IMO, at 215 and 4.48 (which is what NFL Draft Scout has him listed at) he does have some risk of not being quite fast enough or quite big enough to really excel at the NFL level. At those estimated measurables (never right - thank god for the combine) he's a great college back, but a low end RB1 in the NFL. I suspect based on the scouts impressions and the fact that the folks here who watch him have him ranked so highly that he's probably bigger than he's currently listed.
If Ingram is like 220 or more I actually like the Gore comparison a lot.
ETA: all I'm trying to say is that, IMO, at 215 and 4.48 (which is what NFL Draft Scout has him listed at) he does have some risk of not being quite fast enough or quite big enough to really excel at the NFL level. At those estimated measurables (never right - thank god for the combine) he's a great college back, but a low end RB1 in the NFL. I suspect based on the scouts impressions and the fact that the folks here who watch him have him ranked so highly that he's probably bigger than he's currently listed.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I don't see how anyone could question Ingram's size.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Excellent! What's his exact height and weight then?I don't see how anyone could question Ingram's size.
EBF
Footballguy
The guy is a hoss. He probably weighs 220+. Runs tough. Strong lower body. Breaks tackles. Good burst. Can cut on a dime.
There's not much to dislike about him. I don't see Ingram ever being a dominant pro because he's not going to break a lot of long touchdowns, but he can be a reliable 300+ carry workhorse. Cedric Benson is my worst case scenario for him. Frank Gore and Rashard Mendenhall are realistic best case scenarios.
Unless you really believe that one of the top WR prospects is a surefire stud, I don't see how you pass on Ingram with the 1.01. He'll probably outproduce all of those WRs next season. I fully expect him to be valued as a consensus top 20 dynasty player in the near future. Even though I like Green/Blackmon/Jones/etc, I don't know that the same can be said for any of them. I "earned" the 1.01 pick in one of my leagues this year and I'll most likely take Ingram.
There's not much to dislike about him. I don't see Ingram ever being a dominant pro because he's not going to break a lot of long touchdowns, but he can be a reliable 300+ carry workhorse. Cedric Benson is my worst case scenario for him. Frank Gore and Rashard Mendenhall are realistic best case scenarios.
Unless you really believe that one of the top WR prospects is a surefire stud, I don't see how you pass on Ingram with the 1.01. He'll probably outproduce all of those WRs next season. I fully expect him to be valued as a consensus top 20 dynasty player in the near future. Even though I like Green/Blackmon/Jones/etc, I don't know that the same can be said for any of them. I "earned" the 1.01 pick in one of my leagues this year and I'll most likely take Ingram.
eakfootball
Footballguy
This is a very deep draft, Michael Floyd could be availible in the 9th or 10th slot in rookie drafts
EBF
Footballguy
Ingram has been #1 on my 2011 RB board for a long time partially because of his quality and partially because the competition is pitiful, but he really won me over this year with his game against Duke. Forget about the fact that Duke is horrible. The burst, balance, and cutting Ingram showed in that game scream NFL success.
Go to this link and scroll through the video playlist on the right side of the screen to watch clips of Ingram's runs at 4:52 in the 1st quarter and 9:32 in the 2nd quarter.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=302610150
The camera angles don't really do the runs justice. I have seen the field angle and it really gives you a sense for how low he's sinking his hips to make some of those moves. Just filthy, filthy stuff.
Go to this link and scroll through the video playlist on the right side of the screen to watch clips of Ingram's runs at 4:52 in the 1st quarter and 9:32 in the 2nd quarter.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=302610150
The camera angles don't really do the runs justice. I have seen the field angle and it really gives you a sense for how low he's sinking his hips to make some of those moves. Just filthy, filthy stuff.
I watched that entire game and remember thinking he looked as good as S-Jax or Gore, it was like watching an NFL all pro vs a high school team.benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
But will he have Emmitt's OL/TE/WR/QB/ and Moose Johnson??? I don't think so.DansRams said:
anakin
Footballguy
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
I'm well aware of that. But when looking at Emmitt's career....excluding the end of his career with the Cardinals....he had elite around him that made him look better. Without that...Emmitt Smith wouldn't have been the same NFL player/FF player, etc. So when people think that Mark Ingram looks like Emmitt Smith....are they thinking about Michael Irvin driving the team down the field for Emmitt to punch it in at the GL....or the great blocks that Moose lead Emmitt on...or possibly the best OL ever that Emmitt didn't get touched until the second level. Emmitt was a good RB....but he wouldn't have put any #'s close to what he did in any other situation. Heck, he had only a 4.3 YPC average or better in 4 seasons in an ideal situation. Just trying to re-frame this discussion or get a better idea of what yall are attempting to compare with the RBs. I think the same case may even be made for Alabama being a great situation for a college football RB. But how good is Mark Ingram??? He is averaging almost a full yard less per carry than Trent Richardson. So is that an great talent backing him up? Possibly. Or is Alabama just a program that is ideal to run the football? Crazy you call me...then look at RB2, RB3, RB4 at Alabama....all have better YPC over Ingram. Yes they have limited carries(102, 51, 13 respectively), but at least think about the situation here folks.
I think I already stated my view on that.
"People are over analyzing Ingram....He is a great back....Much better than any RB in last years draft"
Will he be a top 5 elite back...I don't think so. Does he have the abilty, body/build, game to be a RB1, I think he does.
Let's do this...let's compare him to the top 2 RB's in most fantasy drafts over the last two years.
09 Moreno and Wells
10 Mathews and Spiller (some may have had Best here)
Where would you rate Ingram out of this group? I rate him #1.
Boom Switch
Footballguy
I'd rank him #1 as well. For all we know Tenn can draft him to back up CJ then he is a worthless pick. If a team like Miami drafts him in rd1 i would be all over him....
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
I didn't cloud my head with what those RB's have accomplished in the NFL. Based on NCAA....Beanie Wells is my #1.Wells #1?So is he going to break out this year? While I have my doubts, I'd love nothing more...
Assume Ingram gets drafted by Miami....not my prediction, just the most frequent mock result.How would you rank those 5 right now?I didn't cloud my head with what those RB's have accomplished in the NFL. Based on NCAA....Beanie Wells is my #1.Wells #1?So is he going to break out this year? While I have my doubts, I'd love nothing more...
coolnerd
Footballguy
Interesting. The Alabama as a great situation was the case 2009, but not so much this year. That team spent more cute time with pistol formations and short passing. They are one of the few teams that I think can line-up run basic football and beat most teams in the country. They did that in 2009, but not 2010. I heard a stat yesterday that they ran the ball somoewhere around 150 time less this year than last, nor as a entire team run as well when they did run it. I specifically remember a game or two where they just flat did not try to establish the run game or line of scrimmage with any of the backs. Richardson is considerd a top prospect on his own and I am sure that the "other" backs have good pedigree. Because (it seemed to me at least) Richardson and Ingram were not used entirely the same, I will pass on YPA as an indicator that one is better than the other.
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Boom Switch
Footballguy
I dont think Beanies resume equals Ingrams. Unless you downgrade for a heisman and a National championship...I didn't cloud my head with what those RB's have accomplished in the NFL. Based on NCAA....Beanie Wells is my #1.Wells #1?
So is he going to break out this year? While I have my doubts, I'd love nothing more...
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The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
What do those accomplishments have to do with anything? I personally think Ingram is a better talent coming out than Wells, but those things have nothing to do with it. My evaluation comes strictly from watching him play.I dont think Beanies resume equals Ingrams. Unless you downgrade for a heisman and a National championship...I didn't cloud my head with what those RB's have accomplished in the NFL. Based on NCAA....Beanie Wells is my #1.Wells #1?
So is he going to break out this year? While I have my doubts, I'd love nothing more...
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
I don't watch every Bama game....but I do agree that it seemed they didn't attempt to establish the run at times.Again I think debating gives a better impression of topics. I think Ingram will be successful...but how successful or how good is it?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Of course there is. There were many things going against him in Arizona this year, that being poor QB play, Tim Hightower, being in the doghouse, and nicks and bruises. Anyone throwing in the towel on Beanie Wells now don't seem to show the patience it takes for dynasty play.
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duaneok66
Footballguy
it has been stated that he doesnt have the mental toughness to be an above average NFL back , and remember , RBs (unlike QBs and WRs) usualy hit the ground running in the NFL . . .
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Ok, but you're making a lot of assumptions (hard to look inside someone's head
) by giving up on Wells at this point in his career.
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I know this is kinda off-topic but to continue the Beanie Wells dynasty debate, he did in fact hit the ground running in the NFL. The first half of last year he was average but that's because he wasn't being included as a big part of the offence, look at what he did in the second half of the season though, he was playing very good which is why a lot of people (myself included) were so high on him going into 2010. Everything that could have gone wrong this year though did go wrong, he got hurt in the pre-season and was never fully healthy all year. Add that to the horrible QB play, the questionable coaching and it was a perfect storm of negative hype. But, the guy is still very young and has tons of talent. He'll be healthy next season and you have to think that Arizona will do a lot to correct their problems on offence. Beanie will be undervalued next year but has a chance to put up top 15 numbers.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
But that's always been the knock on Wells. People don't question his talent. They question his ability to stay healthy and/or play with injuries. I haven't seen anything to change my opinion of that in two years.
duaneok66
Footballguy
I am just stating what has been said - of course you cant look inside anyone's head - actions speak louder than words, and then you make an educated guess . . . I seriously doubt that the Ari coaching staff is really banking that their backfield is set for the next 5-7 years . . .Ok, but you're making a lot of assumptions (hard to look inside someone's head
JohnnyU
Footballguy
So what has Wells done that warrents the lack of mental toughness label you're putting on him?I am just stating what has been said - of course you cant look inside anyone's head - actions speak louder than words, and then you make an educated guess . . . I seriously doubt that the Ari coaching staff is really banking that their backfield is set for the next 5-7 years . . .Ok, but you're making a lot of assumptions (hard to look inside someone's head
YellaJacket
Footballguy
RBs
Ingram - a more physical Shuan Alexander. I like him, a lot.
Ryan Williams - reminds me of Caddy
Daniel Thomas - personally, I think he's the 2nd best rb in the NCAA. His vision and patience are incredible. He does not have the burst or long speed, he actually reminds me of Emmitt.
WRs
AJ is at the top.
Julio - high high ceiling, very raw. I think it's going to take awhile for him to be who he can be.
Blackmon - man did he come out of nowhere. Great ball skills, and goes 100% at all times. I've got him right below AJ and as the 2nd best wr.
Michael Floyd - if he comes out, I think he will be most productive right out of the gate, obviously depending upon who drafts him. He is very polished. I do not think he has the athletic ability of AJ, Blackmon, or Julio. I just think he gets it done through routes.
Baldwin - I do not like him at all.
Broyles - average NFL wr. Is not physically intimidating, runs good routes, and doesn't have the speed...but he's gotten it done at the college level.
I've left many out, I just think these are the guys I've had my eye on from the beginning of this year...except for Blackmon. As mentioned, he came out of nowhere.
Ingram - a more physical Shuan Alexander. I like him, a lot.
Ryan Williams - reminds me of Caddy
Daniel Thomas - personally, I think he's the 2nd best rb in the NCAA. His vision and patience are incredible. He does not have the burst or long speed, he actually reminds me of Emmitt.
WRs
AJ is at the top.
Julio - high high ceiling, very raw. I think it's going to take awhile for him to be who he can be.
Blackmon - man did he come out of nowhere. Great ball skills, and goes 100% at all times. I've got him right below AJ and as the 2nd best wr.
Michael Floyd - if he comes out, I think he will be most productive right out of the gate, obviously depending upon who drafts him. He is very polished. I do not think he has the athletic ability of AJ, Blackmon, or Julio. I just think he gets it done through routes.
Baldwin - I do not like him at all.
Broyles - average NFL wr. Is not physically intimidating, runs good routes, and doesn't have the speed...but he's gotten it done at the college level.
I've left many out, I just think these are the guys I've had my eye on from the beginning of this year...except for Blackmon. As mentioned, he came out of nowhere.
doowain
Footballguy
Of course he can. While he couldn't seem to stay on the field this year, whether it was nagging injury or not being able to outplay Tim Hightower, he still has top notch RB skills and is only 22 years old. Way too early to write him off.Not to mention that the Cardinals were absolutely atrocious this year. Hard to run the ball when you are going 3 and out every other possession.Eastwood said:
