[DYNASTY] 2012 Top 24 Rookies (1 Viewer)

[Tau837]

This is my argument with the Wright>&gt14 spots)>>Jeffery/Hill. I don't get it and you've failed to list anything besides not being smooth/explosive on tape...but will discount any of the offseason(combine/pro day) results that prove they're more equal.

None of this says much about how they function on a football field, which is the most important consideration.It's not hard to justify ranking Wright well above Jeffery. For one thing, he went a lot higher in the NFL draft. Some teams make bad picks, but in general draft position is one of the best indicators of future value. So that right there is a big feather in Wright's cap. And then there's the eyeball test. Jeffery is a big play receiver who lacks speed and relies on his size, strength, and hands. Wright is a big play receiver who can run by coverage and take short throws a long distance. This is not something that is obvious in the numbers, but it's obvious in seeing them play and reading scouting reports about these players.

You can't have everything both ways:If it's where they were drafted

-Then how do you have Bernard Pierce/Robert Turbin 3rd/4th round picks ahead of high second round picks Jeffery/Hill??

If how they function on the field is the most important factor

-Then why isn't YPC the most telling? Wrights a big play guy...yet Alshon isn't and his YPR is better by 3 yards.

Pro Days aren't everything I agree, but they do have some sort of use or else why are they even in place. I broke down every physical trait I could that was measured...Wright won in 40 yard dash by a little, 1.5 inches in vertical and in short shuttle. Jeffery is a much taller WR(with a smaller BMI), longer arms, bigger hands, better hands, better broad jump, better 3 cone drill, better YPR, played in a tougher conference with a worse QB and little WR support around himself.

Yet you still justify 14 spots by what you see. Well what did you see?

No one variable dominates. When I'm ranking these guys, I look at the draft position, the workouts, the statistics, the scouting reports, and then I watch whatever clips I can find. There is no hypocrisy in saying that draft position is an important consideration while also saying that it's not the ONLY consideration. The same goes for all of the other variables. This is a thread where people offer opinions about players. No one is forcing you to agree. If you think Jeffery is equal in value to Wright then by all means act accordingly. The beauty of FF is that you get to put your money where your mouth is and see what happens. You asked my opinion. I provided it. And yet you're still arguing. I'm not sure what kind of resolution you're seeking.

Wright looks better to me than Jeffery. I don't need to say anything beyond that. Are there other variables? Sure, but that it is the gist of it for me.

If you can't justify your opinion more than...well it's my opinion...then it isn't worth much. Given your record in the FF leagues i've played with you it seems consistent.

benson, IMO you're not coming off well here.You are a Bears homer and are in this thread arguing in favor of a Bears draft pick? EBF is providing an unbiased opinion, whether you agree with it or not. I doubt the same is true for you.

Disagreeing is fine, but there is no reason to come into a thread started by EBF and insult him when he has patiently responded to several of your posts to explain his thinking.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

This is my argument with the Wright>&gt14 spots)>>Jeffery/Hill. I don't get it and you've failed to list anything besides not being smooth/explosive on tape...but will discount any of the offseason(combine/pro day) results that prove they're more equal.

None of this says much about how they function on a football field, which is the most important consideration.It's not hard to justify ranking Wright well above Jeffery. For one thing, he went a lot higher in the NFL draft. Some teams make bad picks, but in general draft position is one of the best indicators of future value. So that right there is a big feather in Wright's cap. And then there's the eyeball test. Jeffery is a big play receiver who lacks speed and relies on his size, strength, and hands. Wright is a big play receiver who can run by coverage and take short throws a long distance. This is not something that is obvious in the numbers, but it's obvious in seeing them play and reading scouting reports about these players.

You can't have everything both ways:If it's where they were drafted

-Then how do you have Bernard Pierce/Robert Turbin 3rd/4th round picks ahead of high second round picks Jeffery/Hill??

If how they function on the field is the most important factor

-Then why isn't YPC the most telling? Wrights a big play guy...yet Alshon isn't and his YPR is better by 3 yards.

Pro Days aren't everything I agree, but they do have some sort of use or else why are they even in place. I broke down every physical trait I could that was measured...Wright won in 40 yard dash by a little, 1.5 inches in vertical and in short shuttle. Jeffery is a much taller WR(with a smaller BMI), longer arms, bigger hands, better hands, better broad jump, better 3 cone drill, better YPR, played in a tougher conference with a worse QB and little WR support around himself.

Yet you still justify 14 spots by what you see. Well what did you see?

No one variable dominates. When I'm ranking these guys, I look at the draft position, the workouts, the statistics, the scouting reports, and then I watch whatever clips I can find. There is no hypocrisy in saying that draft position is an important consideration while also saying that it's not the ONLY consideration. The same goes for all of the other variables. This is a thread where people offer opinions about players. No one is forcing you to agree. If you think Jeffery is equal in value to Wright then by all means act accordingly. The beauty of FF is that you get to put your money where your mouth is and see what happens. You asked my opinion. I provided it. And yet you're still arguing. I'm not sure what kind of resolution you're seeking.

Wright looks better to me than Jeffery. I don't need to say anything beyond that. Are there other variables? Sure, but that it is the gist of it for me.

If you can't justify your opinion more than...well it's my opinion...then it isn't worth much. Given your record in the FF leagues i've played with you it seems consistent.

benson, IMO you're not coming off well here. Is it mere coincidence that you are a Bears homer and are in this thread arguing about a Bears draft pick? EBF is providing an unbiased opinion, whether you agree with it or not. I doubt the same is true for you.

I've provided facts...that diminishes opinion. EBF hasn't provided any facts...only opinions.I've argued for Stephen Hill/Alshon Jeffery to be closer in ranking to Kendall Wright. I've also argued against Robert Turbin/Bernard Pierce.

 

[Tau837]

Alshon Jeffery will start opposite Brandon Marshall... Can Cutler deliver stats to two WRs? The last time he had good WR's in 2008-Marshall 104/1265, Royal 91/980, Stockley 49/526. I can see that being Marshall/Jeffery/Bennett.

In the 2008 season, Cutler attempted 616 passes in 16 games. Since he came to Chicago, Cutler has averaged ~508 passing attempts per 16 games. Big difference. Are you expecting a major increase in passing attempts? If not, I don't think his top 2 WRs will have close to 195/2245.

 

[BigTex]

This is my argument with the Wright>&gt14 spots)>>Jeffery/Hill. I don't get it and you've failed to list anything besides not being smooth/explosive on tape...but will discount any of the offseason(combine/pro day) results that prove they're more equal.

None of this says much about how they function on a football field, which is the most important consideration.It's not hard to justify ranking Wright well above Jeffery. For one thing, he went a lot higher in the NFL draft. Some teams make bad picks, but in general draft position is one of the best indicators of future value. So that right there is a big feather in Wright's cap. And then there's the eyeball test. Jeffery is a big play receiver who lacks speed and relies on his size, strength, and hands. Wright is a big play receiver who can run by coverage and take short throws a long distance. This is not something that is obvious in the numbers, but it's obvious in seeing them play and reading scouting reports about these players.

You can't have everything both ways:If it's where they were drafted

-Then how do you have Bernard Pierce/Robert Turbin 3rd/4th round picks ahead of high second round picks Jeffery/Hill??

If how they function on the field is the most important factor

-Then why isn't YPC the most telling? Wrights a big play guy...yet Alshon isn't and his YPR is better by 3 yards.

Pro Days aren't everything I agree, but they do have some sort of use or else why are they even in place. I broke down every physical trait I could that was measured...Wright won in 40 yard dash by a little, 1.5 inches in vertical and in short shuttle. Jeffery is a much taller WR(with a smaller BMI), longer arms, bigger hands, better hands, better broad jump, better 3 cone drill, better YPR, played in a tougher conference with a worse QB and little WR support around himself.

Yet you still justify 14 spots by what you see. Well what did you see?

1. You probably should be looking at YAC not YPR. YPR is not the right indicator when evaluating a WR.(IMHO)2. IIRC Alshon caught more long passes than Wright. Wright was great at catching slant passes across the middle and turning them into long plays. Alshon caught more deep throws.

:twocents:

 

[Tau837]

This is my argument with the Wright>&gt14 spots)>>Jeffery/Hill. I don't get it and you've failed to list anything besides not being smooth/explosive on tape...but will discount any of the offseason(combine/pro day) results that prove they're more equal.

None of this says much about how they function on a football field, which is the most important consideration.It's not hard to justify ranking Wright well above Jeffery. For one thing, he went a lot higher in the NFL draft. Some teams make bad picks, but in general draft position is one of the best indicators of future value. So that right there is a big feather in Wright's cap. And then there's the eyeball test. Jeffery is a big play receiver who lacks speed and relies on his size, strength, and hands. Wright is a big play receiver who can run by coverage and take short throws a long distance. This is not something that is obvious in the numbers, but it's obvious in seeing them play and reading scouting reports about these players.

You can't have everything both ways:If it's where they were drafted

-Then how do you have Bernard Pierce/Robert Turbin 3rd/4th round picks ahead of high second round picks Jeffery/Hill??

If how they function on the field is the most important factor

-Then why isn't YPC the most telling? Wrights a big play guy...yet Alshon isn't and his YPR is better by 3 yards.

Pro Days aren't everything I agree, but they do have some sort of use or else why are they even in place. I broke down every physical trait I could that was measured...Wright won in 40 yard dash by a little, 1.5 inches in vertical and in short shuttle. Jeffery is a much taller WR(with a smaller BMI), longer arms, bigger hands, better hands, better broad jump, better 3 cone drill, better YPR, played in a tougher conference with a worse QB and little WR support around himself.

Yet you still justify 14 spots by what you see. Well what did you see?

No one variable dominates. When I'm ranking these guys, I look at the draft position, the workouts, the statistics, the scouting reports, and then I watch whatever clips I can find. There is no hypocrisy in saying that draft position is an important consideration while also saying that it's not the ONLY consideration. The same goes for all of the other variables. This is a thread where people offer opinions about players. No one is forcing you to agree. If you think Jeffery is equal in value to Wright then by all means act accordingly. The beauty of FF is that you get to put your money where your mouth is and see what happens. You asked my opinion. I provided it. And yet you're still arguing. I'm not sure what kind of resolution you're seeking.

Wright looks better to me than Jeffery. I don't need to say anything beyond that. Are there other variables? Sure, but that it is the gist of it for me.

If you can't justify your opinion more than...well it's my opinion...then it isn't worth much. Given your record in the FF leagues i've played with you it seems consistent.

benson, IMO you're not coming off well here. Is it mere coincidence that you are a Bears homer and are in this thread arguing about a Bears draft pick? EBF is providing an unbiased opinion, whether you agree with it or not. I doubt the same is true for you.

I've provided facts...that diminishes opinion. EBF hasn't provided any facts...only opinions.I've argued for Stephen Hill/Alshon Jeffery to be closer in ranking to Kendall Wright. I've also argued against Robert Turbin/Bernard Pierce.

Providing facts is fine, disagreeing is fine, arguing a viewpoint is fine. Insulting the other poster who is debating reasonably isn't.

 

[Hoosier16]

I've provided facts...that diminishes opinion. EBF hasn't provided any facts...only opinions.

This is really bizarre. What facts could possibly exist that prove who will be a better NFL WR?

 

[BigTex]

This is my argument with the Wright>&gt14 spots)>>Jeffery/Hill. I don't get it and you've failed to list anything besides not being smooth/explosive on tape...but will discount any of the offseason(combine/pro day) results that prove they're more equal.

None of this says much about how they function on a football field, which is the most important consideration.It's not hard to justify ranking Wright well above Jeffery. For one thing, he went a lot higher in the NFL draft. Some teams make bad picks, but in general draft position is one of the best indicators of future value. So that right there is a big feather in Wright's cap. And then there's the eyeball test. Jeffery is a big play receiver who lacks speed and relies on his size, strength, and hands. Wright is a big play receiver who can run by coverage and take short throws a long distance. This is not something that is obvious in the numbers, but it's obvious in seeing them play and reading scouting reports about these players.

You can't have everything both ways:If it's where they were drafted

-Then how do you have Bernard Pierce/Robert Turbin 3rd/4th round picks ahead of high second round picks Jeffery/Hill??

If how they function on the field is the most important factor

-Then why isn't YPC the most telling? Wrights a big play guy...yet Alshon isn't and his YPR is better by 3 yards.

Pro Days aren't everything I agree, but they do have some sort of use or else why are they even in place. I broke down every physical trait I could that was measured...Wright won in 40 yard dash by a little, 1.5 inches in vertical and in short shuttle. Jeffery is a much taller WR(with a smaller BMI), longer arms, bigger hands, better hands, better broad jump, better 3 cone drill, better YPR, played in a tougher conference with a worse QB and little WR support around himself.

Yet you still justify 14 spots by what you see. Well what did you see?

No one variable dominates. When I'm ranking these guys, I look at the draft position, the workouts, the statistics, the scouting reports, and then I watch whatever clips I can find. There is no hypocrisy in saying that draft position is an important consideration while also saying that it's not the ONLY consideration. The same goes for all of the other variables. This is a thread where people offer opinions about players. No one is forcing you to agree. If you think Jeffery is equal in value to Wright then by all means act accordingly. The beauty of FF is that you get to put your money where your mouth is and see what happens. You asked my opinion. I provided it. And yet you're still arguing. I'm not sure what kind of resolution you're seeking.

Wright looks better to me than Jeffery. I don't need to say anything beyond that. Are there other variables? Sure, but that it is the gist of it for me.

If you can't justify your opinion more than...well it's my opinion...then it isn't worth much. Given your record in the FF leagues i've played with you it seems consistent.

benson, IMO you're not coming off well here. Is it mere coincidence that you are a Bears homer and are in this thread arguing about a Bears draft pick? EBF is providing an unbiased opinion, whether you agree with it or not. I doubt the same is true for you.

I've provided facts...that diminishes opinion. EBF hasn't provided any facts...only opinions.I've argued for Stephen Hill/Alshon Jeffery to be closer in ranking to Kendall Wright. I've also argued against Robert Turbin/Bernard Pierce.

Providing facts is fine, disagreeing is fine, arguing a viewpoint is fine. Insulting the other poster who is debating reasonably isn't.

Agreed, we all rank players for different reasons and no one way is THE correct way.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Alshon Jeffery will start opposite Brandon Marshall... Can Cutler deliver stats to two WRs? The last time he had good WR's in 2008-Marshall 104/1265, Royal 91/980, Stockley 49/526. I can see that being Marshall/Jeffery/Bennett.

In the 2008 season, Cutler attempted 616 passes in 16 games. Since he came to Chicago, Cutler has averaged ~508 passing attempts per 16 games. Big difference. Are you expecting a major increase in passing attempts? If not, I don't think his top 2 WRs will have close to 195/2245.

I agree, that's a valid point. This is how debating works....providing information.In the same regard though, Chicago has had: Johnny Knox, Earl Bennett, Devin Hester, Roy Williams, Sam Hurd, Dane Sanzenbacher, Devin Aromashadu, Rashied Davis, etc. Now Chicago's added Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffery...two potential #1 WRs.Having the pieces for that offense are important. Will Mike Tice use them to pass more? We will see.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

This is my argument with the Wright>&gt14 spots)>>Jeffery/Hill. I don't get it and you've failed to list anything besides not being smooth/explosive on tape...but will discount any of the offseason(combine/pro day) results that prove they're more equal.

None of this says much about how they function on a football field, which is the most important consideration.It's not hard to justify ranking Wright well above Jeffery. For one thing, he went a lot higher in the NFL draft. Some teams make bad picks, but in general draft position is one of the best indicators of future value. So that right there is a big feather in Wright's cap. And then there's the eyeball test. Jeffery is a big play receiver who lacks speed and relies on his size, strength, and hands. Wright is a big play receiver who can run by coverage and take short throws a long distance. This is not something that is obvious in the numbers, but it's obvious in seeing them play and reading scouting reports about these players.

You can't have everything both ways:If it's where they were drafted

-Then how do you have Bernard Pierce/Robert Turbin 3rd/4th round picks ahead of high second round picks Jeffery/Hill??

If how they function on the field is the most important factor

-Then why isn't YPC the most telling? Wrights a big play guy...yet Alshon isn't and his YPR is better by 3 yards.

Pro Days aren't everything I agree, but they do have some sort of use or else why are they even in place. I broke down every physical trait I could that was measured...Wright won in 40 yard dash by a little, 1.5 inches in vertical and in short shuttle. Jeffery is a much taller WR(with a smaller BMI), longer arms, bigger hands, better hands, better broad jump, better 3 cone drill, better YPR, played in a tougher conference with a worse QB and little WR support around himself.

Yet you still justify 14 spots by what you see. Well what did you see?

1. You probably should be looking at YAC not YPR. YPR is not the right indicator when evaluating a WR.(IMHO)2. IIRC Alshon caught more long passes than Wright. Wright was great at catching slant passes across the middle and turning them into long plays. Alshon caught more deep throws.

:twocents:

This is where they're two games vary. Wright has that Percy Harvin/Steve Smith in him....while Jeffery has the Michael Irvin in him.Either way, if Wright was such a big time WR why such a discrepancy?

I just don't get the ranking differential.

 

[Shanahanigans]

I think I respect EBF's opinion more than Bloom even, not that it's a contest. You guys are the best part about footballguys. IMO you're still too high on Blackmon, his situation is miserable. Also think you're too high on Miller while you too easily dismiss Pead and Hillman. Other than that I pretty much agree, or at least can see where you're coming from. Here's my rankings:

1 Trent Richardson Best RB prospect since Peterson.

2 Andrew Luck Even if he doesn't hit like he should he will still hold a lot of value for many years.

3 Robert Griffin III His ceiling is too high to pass, and he is going to score a lot of points on bootlegs.

4 Doug Martin Clearly the best RB after Richardson imo.

5 David Wilson The fall off at RB after Wilson is huge. I'm not especially high on Blackmon or Floyd.

6 Justin Blackmon He went to the worst situation imagineable. Talent over situation usually, but not in this case.

7 Michael Floyd Actually like his situation, but too worried about him being a possesion WR to draft ahead of JB.

8 Kendall Wright Don't like him near as much as Floyd. See his ceiling as a DeSean Jackson type.

9 Isaiah Pead I like Pead, and he went to a great situation IMO. Should be a RB4 immediately with RB2 potential.

10 Ronnie Hillman Great landing spot. After Hillman I think your odds of getting a solid RB diminish significantly.

11 Brian Quick The more I learn about this guy the more I like him.

12 Alshon Jeffery Thought the world of this guy before last college season. Cant pass here.

13 LaMichael James In a PPR he is more valuable. Hate his spot as I am a Hunter fan.

14 Rueben Randle Love where he went, but am more skeptical after the slide.

15 AJ Jenkins Honestly don't know much about him, but he is a 1st rounder with a prototype build.

16 Lamar Miller Had him way higher before the draft, but wouldn't be suprised if he took that job by seasons end.

17 Robert Turbin Can't see him as a PPR stud, but he has RB2-3 ceiling. Not a Lynch fan.

18 Coby Fleener I play in a no TE, but Fleener is still on my radar due to the Year of the TE.

19 Stephen Hill I am always highly skeptical of workout warriors.

20 Ryan Broyles Love his landing spot. Could be a PPR monster if he realizes his potential.

21 Bernard Pierce Hate his landing spot but agree with EBF that in the NFL things change very quickly.

22 Chris Rainey PPR is the only reason he is here.

23 Brandon Weeden Has to start soon since he's old so at least you'll know what you have quickly.

* Randy Moss Why not take a chance if you're a team that has a hole at WR and has a shot at a title.

* Brian Hoyer NE He is most likely available, and is the most likely candidate to be next year's Flynn.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

This is my argument with the Wright>&gt14 spots)>>Jeffery/Hill. I don't get it and you've failed to list anything besides not being smooth/explosive on tape...but will discount any of the offseason(combine/pro day) results that prove they're more equal.

None of this says much about how they function on a football field, which is the most important consideration.It's not hard to justify ranking Wright well above Jeffery. For one thing, he went a lot higher in the NFL draft. Some teams make bad picks, but in general draft position is one of the best indicators of future value. So that right there is a big feather in Wright's cap. And then there's the eyeball test. Jeffery is a big play receiver who lacks speed and relies on his size, strength, and hands. Wright is a big play receiver who can run by coverage and take short throws a long distance. This is not something that is obvious in the numbers, but it's obvious in seeing them play and reading scouting reports about these players.

You can't have everything both ways:If it's where they were drafted

-Then how do you have Bernard Pierce/Robert Turbin 3rd/4th round picks ahead of high second round picks Jeffery/Hill??

If how they function on the field is the most important factor

-Then why isn't YPC the most telling? Wrights a big play guy...yet Alshon isn't and his YPR is better by 3 yards.

Pro Days aren't everything I agree, but they do have some sort of use or else why are they even in place. I broke down every physical trait I could that was measured...Wright won in 40 yard dash by a little, 1.5 inches in vertical and in short shuttle. Jeffery is a much taller WR(with a smaller BMI), longer arms, bigger hands, better hands, better broad jump, better 3 cone drill, better YPR, played in a tougher conference with a worse QB and little WR support around himself.

Yet you still justify 14 spots by what you see. Well what did you see?

No one variable dominates. When I'm ranking these guys, I look at the draft position, the workouts, the statistics, the scouting reports, and then I watch whatever clips I can find. There is no hypocrisy in saying that draft position is an important consideration while also saying that it's not the ONLY consideration. The same goes for all of the other variables. This is a thread where people offer opinions about players. No one is forcing you to agree. If you think Jeffery is equal in value to Wright then by all means act accordingly. The beauty of FF is that you get to put your money where your mouth is and see what happens. You asked my opinion. I provided it. And yet you're still arguing. I'm not sure what kind of resolution you're seeking.

Wright looks better to me than Jeffery. I don't need to say anything beyond that. Are there other variables? Sure, but that it is the gist of it for me.

If you can't justify your opinion more than...well it's my opinion...then it isn't worth much. Given your record in the FF leagues i've played with you it seems consistent.

benson, IMO you're not coming off well here. Is it mere coincidence that you are a Bears homer and are in this thread arguing about a Bears draft pick? EBF is providing an unbiased opinion, whether you agree with it or not. I doubt the same is true for you.

I've provided facts...that diminishes opinion. EBF hasn't provided any facts...only opinions.I've argued for Stephen Hill/Alshon Jeffery to be closer in ranking to Kendall Wright. I've also argued against Robert Turbin/Bernard Pierce.

Providing facts is fine, disagreeing is fine, arguing a viewpoint is fine. Insulting the other poster who is debating reasonably isn't.

When someone makes annual posts about their rankings, they believe a lot in themselves. When they can't debate them back with much more than "it's my opinion" then they open themselves up for backlash.

 

[BigTex]

This is my argument with the Wright>&gt14 spots)>>Jeffery/Hill. I don't get it and you've failed to list anything besides not being smooth/explosive on tape...but will discount any of the offseason(combine/pro day) results that prove they're more equal.

None of this says much about how they function on a football field, which is the most important consideration.It's not hard to justify ranking Wright well above Jeffery. For one thing, he went a lot higher in the NFL draft. Some teams make bad picks, but in general draft position is one of the best indicators of future value. So that right there is a big feather in Wright's cap. And then there's the eyeball test. Jeffery is a big play receiver who lacks speed and relies on his size, strength, and hands. Wright is a big play receiver who can run by coverage and take short throws a long distance. This is not something that is obvious in the numbers, but it's obvious in seeing them play and reading scouting reports about these players.

You can't have everything both ways:If it's where they were drafted

-Then how do you have Bernard Pierce/Robert Turbin 3rd/4th round picks ahead of high second round picks Jeffery/Hill??

If how they function on the field is the most important factor

-Then why isn't YPC the most telling? Wrights a big play guy...yet Alshon isn't and his YPR is better by 3 yards.

Pro Days aren't everything I agree, but they do have some sort of use or else why are they even in place. I broke down every physical trait I could that was measured...Wright won in 40 yard dash by a little, 1.5 inches in vertical and in short shuttle. Jeffery is a much taller WR(with a smaller BMI), longer arms, bigger hands, better hands, better broad jump, better 3 cone drill, better YPR, played in a tougher conference with a worse QB and little WR support around himself.

Yet you still justify 14 spots by what you see. Well what did you see?

1. You probably should be looking at YAC not YPR. YPR is not the right indicator when evaluating a WR.(IMHO)2. IIRC Alshon caught more long passes than Wright. Wright was great at catching slant passes across the middle and turning them into long plays. Alshon caught more deep throws.

:twocents:

This is where they're two games vary. Wright has that Percy Harvin/Steve Smith in him....while Jeffery has the Michael Irvin in him.Either way, if Wright was such a big time WR why such a discrepancy?

I just don't get the ranking differential.

Gotcha

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I've provided facts...that diminishes opinion. EBF hasn't provided any facts...only opinions.

This is really bizarre. What facts could possibly exist that prove who will be a better NFL WR?

Stats or any kind of data besides opinion.I thought this was a message board, not a tea party.

 

[EBF]

I think I respect EBF's opinion more than Bloom even, not that it's a contest. You guys are the best part about footballguys. IMO you're still too high on Blackmon, his situation is miserable. Also think you're too high on Miller while you too easily dismiss Pead and Hillman. Other than that I pretty much agree, or at least can see where you're coming from.

I don't think Jax is a terrible spot for Blackmon. As bad as Gabbert looked, he's still a second year player who was picked very high last year. We've seen players like Eli Manning, Drew Brees, and Alex Smith emerge from bad starts to become average-to-great NFL starters. I think there's some possibility of Gabbert doing the same. Wouldn't say it's likely, but it's possible despite his putrid start. They threw him out there with no supporting cast when he was raw and unprepared. No surprise he looked terrible. What I like about Jacksonville is that it's a franchise that has been needing a #1 WR for about a decade. Blackmon fills that void and should accumulate decent stats by virtue of targets alone. Boldin did it as a rookie with trash at QB. Even the worst NFL starter can usually prop up a good WR. What it comes down to is that Blackmon is a top 10 talent who pops off the screen in a way that few skill players in this draft do. I'll take my chances on that. Martin is a better redraft pick and could hold more value after year one. Wilson too. But in the long run, Blackmon is the guy for me. Pead and Hillman have a good chance to obliterate their rankings. However, neither possesses the bulk of a prototypical featured back and they don't wow me in the way that successful undersized backs of the past have. I think they're more Lorenzo Booker/Joe McKnight/Dexter McCluster than LeSean McCoy/Jamaal Charles/Darren Sproles. The one thing I do like is the opportunity. They could both get on the field next season. Opportunity is a big part of the equation in FF. No doubt about that.

 

[Shanahanigans]

I think I respect EBF's opinion more than Bloom even, not that it's a contest. You guys are the best part about footballguys. IMO you're still too high on Blackmon, his situation is miserable. Also think you're too high on Miller while you too easily dismiss Pead and Hillman. Other than that I pretty much agree, or at least can see where you're coming from.

I don't think Jax is a terrible spot for Blackmon. As bad as Gabbert looked, he's still a second year player who was picked very high last year. We've seen players like Eli Manning, Drew Brees, and Alex Smith emerge from bad starts to become average-to-great NFL starters. I think there's some possibility of Gabbert doing the same. Wouldn't say it's likely, but it's possible despite his putrid start. They threw him out there with no supporting cast when he was raw and unprepared. No surprise he looked terrible.

IMO there is no way that Gabbert will ever do anything significant in the NFL. I would be shocked if he even made it through next season. The only hope for Blackmon this year is if Henne is put in. That being said he should have a new QB next year, and things could be vastly different. That is a good point you make about how he should get a ton of targets immediately, but I will pass and go with one of the 2 1st Round RBs in relatively good situations. I think the real question come draft day will be Floyd or Blackmon.

 

[EBF]

When someone makes annual posts about their rankings, they believe a lot in themselves. When they can't debate them back with much more than "it's my opinion" then they open themselves up for backlash.

The thing is, I've provided more than that and you've basically just brushed it aside and kept arguing. Draft position is a huge variable. Statistically, the difference between a 1st-2nd round pick is far greater than the difference between a 2nd-3rd round pick. I did a study on this years ago and found that first round NFL draft picks are almost twice as likely to succeed as 2nd round picks. The hit rate is something like 50-60%, although it depends on your definition of success. The hit rate for 2nd round picks was significantly lower, whereas the drop from 2nd to 3rd round was only about 5%. So if you're looking for facts, the fact that Wright was selected 20th overall gives him a much greater chance of success than second round picks like Hill and Jeffery.

You keep throwing out combine numbers and game stats. Those are relevant, but not comprehensive. I'm a big believer that combine numbers don't necessarily reflect how a player performs on the field. Rueben Randle is a great example. On paper he has average speed and explosiveness, but in game situations he routinely separates from his defender in a variety of routes. There is really no objective way to quantify this. You can talk about catch % or yards per reception, but these are dependent on supporting cast and offensive philosophy. If you watch footage of Wright, you should notice that a lot of his receptions come on bubble screens. You are not going to have an incredible yards per catch average when many of your targets are less than 2 yards downfield. So how much does the fact that Jeffery had a higher yards per catch tell us about how he plays compared to Wright? Not necessarily much.

What I like about Wright, apart from the draft position, is that he plays strong and explosive. He is a short receiver, but he weighs nearly 200 pounds. He ran slow at the combine, but on the field you can see numerous examples of him running by his defender. He plays fast. This is not a unique phenomenon. Chad Ochocinco ran in the 4.5-4.6 range at the combine, but on the field he played fast. Antonio Bryant ran slow on the track, but consistently got open deep in college and in the NFL. To some extent, a player is a player. If you look at what they do, you can get a sense for who they are.

Wright and Jeffery are two totally different players. Jeffery is a big-bodied WR who has made a living by winning highly-contested jump balls downfield. He doesn't usually burn people with speed and is relatively mediocre on short and medium routes. I see him as a somewhat risky pick because he's not the smooth route runner or the quick-twitch athlete of elite NFL possession WRs like Boldin, Marshall, and White. He is not very agile or dangerous after the catch. Wright, in contrast, is a versatile deep threat who can simply outrun defenders deep or take short throws to the house. He is a smoother runner than Jeffery and appears to have more ability to separate on a variety of routes. He is a smaller body, but his high weight relative to his height and his elite leaping ability help compensate to a certain extent. I think overall he's the more versatile and complete talent.

I'm not sure what you are looking for in terms of facts. If you go by workout numbers, Stephen Hill is the best WR in this draft. If you go by draft position, it's Justin Blackmon. If you go by college production, it's Jordan White. The thing is, no one variable tells you everything you need to know about a player. It's a whole constellation of factors. You weigh them the best you can and make a judgment call. With Wright, he passes every metric besides 40 time. Looking at his game clips, I'm not too concerned about this because there's clear evidence that

I have more concerns about Jeffery and I've already outlined the main ones.

 

[Hoosier16]

I've provided facts...that diminishes opinion. EBF hasn't provided any facts...only opinions.

This is really bizarre. What facts could possibly exist that prove who will be a better NFL WR?

Stats or any kind of data besides opinion.I thought this was a message board, not a tea party.

But you're quoting college stats. You're still using a subjective analysis to project those into NFL success. No matter what you base your opinion upon, the opinion is still subjective.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I've provided facts...that diminishes opinion. EBF hasn't provided any facts...only opinions.

This is really bizarre. What facts could possibly exist that prove who will be a better NFL WR?

Stats or any kind of data besides opinion.I thought this was a message board, not a tea party.

But you're quoting college stats. You're still using a subjective analysis to project those into NFL success. No matter what you base your opinion upon, the opinion is still subjective.

I don't disagree, but that's a large portion of what people go by. If RGIII had 6 TDs and 40 INTs, he wouldn't get picked in the first round.

 

[cstu]

EBF

This is entire thing is subjective since even stats and measurements can be interpreted many different ways. For example, someone might look at Michael Floyd's 3 cone (7.11) and SS (4.5) and see a player who lacks the agility and quickness to play WR in the NFL.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

When someone makes annual posts about their rankings, they believe a lot in themselves. When they can't debate them back with much more than "it's my opinion" then they open themselves up for backlash.

Draft position is a huge variable. Statistically, the difference between a 1st-2nd round pick is far greater than the difference between a 2nd-3rd round pick. I did a study on this years ago and found that first round NFL draft picks are almost twice as likely to succeed as 2nd round picks. The hit rate is something like 50-60%, although it depends on your definition of success. The hit rate for 2nd round picks was significantly lower, whereas the drop from 2nd to 3rd round was only about 5%. So if you're looking for facts, the fact that Wright was selected 20th overall gives him a much greater chance of success than second round picks like Hill and Jeffery. I'd be interested to see that. I think draft position is important as well. Not sure if you remember SSOG and my debate about Chaz Schilens vs DHB. I was on DHB's side due to draft position.

You keep throwing out combine numbers and game stats. Those are relevant, but not comprehensive. I'm a big believer that combine numbers don't necessarily reflect how a player performs on the field. Rueben Randle is a great example. On paper he has average speed and explosiveness, but in game situations he routinely separates from his defender in a variety of routes. There is really no objective way to quantify this. You can talk about catch % or yards per reception, but these are dependent on supporting cast and offensive philosophy. If you watch footage of Wright, you should notice that a lot of his receptions come on bubble screens. You are not going to have an incredible yards per catch average when many of your targets are less than 2 yards downfield. So how much does the fact that Jeffery had a higher yards per catch tell us about how he plays compared to Wright? Not necessarily much.

-I agree combine/pro day numbers aren't everything, but they are something. The one thing I don't like about Wright is that he's so small/small hands. I counted maybe 5 WR's in the top 30 of PPR leagues that are under 6'0(Wrights only 5'10 1/4). His catch radius is just very limited and he doesn't win many of those 50/50 passes or in traffic. Then add to the point that he isn't uber fast(Mike Wallace/Desean Jackson) and it's a disadvantage to him.

-I do like his explosion and his toughness to fight for yards. But it's not on the same level as Steve Smith.

-You commented on his offense as one of the reasons for the YPC, true. The thing I don't like about the entire offense is that they use playaction almost every pass play. That takes LB's out of the equation and isn't a realistic translation to the NFL game.

What I like about Wright, apart from the draft position, is that he plays strong and explosive. He is a short receiver, but he weighs nearly 200 pounds. He ran slow at the combine, but on the field you can see numerous examples of him running by his defender. He plays fast. This is not a unique phenomenon. Chad Ochocinco ran in the 4.5-4.6 range at the combine, but on the field he played fast. Antonio Bryant ran slow on the track, but consistently got open deep in college and in the NFL. To some extent, a player is a player. If you look at what they do, you can get a sense for who they are.

I don't disagree...although Ocho and Bryant are both 6'2 WRs vs 5'10 1/4 Wright. How his speed translates is a huge question. But him not showing up in great shape in the offseason is a concern. If he doesn't do it for the biggest interview of his life, when will he?

Wright and Jeffery are two totally different players. Jeffery is a big-bodied WR who has made a living by winning highly-contested jump balls downfield. He doesn't usually burn people with speed and is relatively mediocre on short and medium routes. I see him as a somewhat risky pick because he's not the smooth route runner or the quick-twitch athlete of elite NFL possession WRs like Boldin, Marshall, and White. He is not very agile or dangerous after the catch. Wright, in contrast, is a versatile deep threat who can simply outrun defenders deep or take short throws to the house. He is a smoother runner than Jeffery and appears to have more ability to separate on a variety of routes. He is a smaller body, but his high weight relative to his height and his elite leaping ability help compensate to a certain extent. I think overall he's the more versatile and complete talent.

While Wright looks more explosive on film and Jeffery looks very methodical...could it be that Jeffery just makes everything look easy? I know you don't want to validate this, but his pro day numbers suggest he isn't the slug everybody thought he was and he ever burned Nebraska CB Denard in his last collegiate game.

Jeffery doesn't need the separation that Wright needs due to huge size differentials. I will bring out the measurables again.

Height= Jeffery by 4 5/8 inches

Weight= Jeffery by 17 pounds

Arms= Jeffery by 2.5 inches

Hands= Jeffery by 1 5/8 inches

40= Wright by at least .03

Short Shuttle=Wright by .14

3 cone=Jeffery by .22

Vertical=Wright by 1.5 inches

Broad Jump=Jeffery by 2 inches

In today's NFL with all of the rules against CB's touching WR's...I would gladly get a WR that's almost 5 inches taller, with longer arms, bigger hands(and better) vs a guy that's a little quicker and faster.

I'm not sure what you are looking for in terms of facts. If you go by workout numbers, Stephen Hill is the best WR in this draft. If you go by draft position, it's Justin Blackmon. If you go by college production, it's Jordan White. The thing is, no one variable tells you everything you need to know about a player. It's a whole constellation of factors. You weigh them the best you can and make a judgment call. With Wright, he passes every metric besides 40 time. Looking at his game clips, I'm not too concerned about this because there's clear evidence that

Making plays vs first round picks Mark Barron and Dre Kirkpatrick leading South Carolina to an upset win.

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

This is my argument with the Wright>&gt14 spots)>>Jeffery/Hill. I don't get it and you've failed to list anything besides not being smooth/explosive on tape...but will discount any of the offseason(combine/pro day) results that prove they're more equal.

None of this says much about how they function on a football field, which is the most important consideration.It's not hard to justify ranking Wright well above Jeffery. For one thing, he went a lot higher in the NFL draft. Some teams make bad picks, but in general draft position is one of the best indicators of future value. So that right there is a big feather in Wright's cap. And then there's the eyeball test. Jeffery is a big play receiver who lacks speed and relies on his size, strength, and hands. Wright is a big play receiver who can run by coverage and take short throws a long distance. This is not something that is obvious in the numbers, but it's obvious in seeing them play and reading scouting reports about these players.

You can't have everything both ways:If it's where they were drafted

-Then how do you have Bernard Pierce/Robert Turbin 3rd/4th round picks ahead of high second round picks Jeffery/Hill??

If how they function on the field is the most important factor

-Then why isn't YPC the most telling? Wrights a big play guy...yet Alshon isn't and his YPR is better by 3 yards.

Pro Days aren't everything I agree, but they do have some sort of use or else why are they even in place. I broke down every physical trait I could that was measured...Wright won in 40 yard dash by a little, 1.5 inches in vertical and in short shuttle. Jeffery is a much taller WR(with a smaller BMI), longer arms, bigger hands, better hands, better broad jump, better 3 cone drill, better YPR, played in a tougher conference with a worse QB and little WR support around himself.

Yet you still justify 14 spots by what you see. Well what did you see?

No one variable dominates. When I'm ranking these guys, I look at the draft position, the workouts, the statistics, the scouting reports, and then I watch whatever clips I can find. There is no hypocrisy in saying that draft position is an important consideration while also saying that it's not the ONLY consideration. The same goes for all of the other variables. This is a thread where people offer opinions about players. No one is forcing you to agree. If you think Jeffery is equal in value to Wright then by all means act accordingly. The beauty of FF is that you get to put your money where your mouth is and see what happens. You asked my opinion. I provided it. And yet you're still arguing. I'm not sure what kind of resolution you're seeking.

Wright looks better to me than Jeffery. I don't need to say anything beyond that. Are there other variables? Sure, but that it is the gist of it for me.

If you can't justify your opinion more than...well it's my opinion...then it isn't worth much. Given your record in the FF leagues i've played with you it seems consistent.

you need more reasoning on a certain guy than the opening post?

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

I've provided facts...that diminishes opinion. EBF hasn't provided any facts...only opinions.

This is really bizarre. What facts could possibly exist that prove who will be a better NFL WR?

Stats or any kind of data besides opinion.I thought this was a message board, not a tea party.

But you're quoting college stats. You're still using a subjective analysis to project those into NFL success. No matter what you base your opinion upon, the opinion is still subjective.

It's so much deeper than 'facts' ... all of us should know that.. come on guys.. how can you prove that you are 'right' when your doing a PREDICTION of whats going to happen.

If 'facts' and statistics could prove failure and success, Gms wouldn't get fired so often.

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

Also, even if he is wrong...wrong on all of them.

why does it matter? he clearly put a lot of thought and effort into this and his thoughts should be valuable information regardless of whether you think hes right or wrong.

 

[moderated]

Are people really complaining that someone took time to put out thorough well thought out rankings?

This whole hobby is based on opinions and the beauty is there is no answer key on what's going to actually happen.

 

[BigTex]

What I could find onYAC

This makes me Watkins even more!!!!

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

What I could find onYAC

This makes me Watkins even more!!!!

hhahah BJ Cunningham made it on one of the lists!!! .. but yea Watkins is the truth.

But would you rather bank on Wakins or Keenan Allen as having the better NFL career?

 

[BigTex]

What I could find onYAC

This makes me Watkins even more!!!!

hhahah BJ Cunningham made it on one of the lists!!! .. but yea Watkins is the truth.

But would you rather bank on Wakins or Keenan Allen as having the better NFL career?

Watkins and I'm serious!!! He's Deion Sanders on offense!!!

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Are people really complaining that someone took time to put out thorough well thought out rankings?This whole hobby is based on opinions and the beauty is there is no answer key on what's going to actually happen.

Complaining? I'm debating. Isn't that the point of the SP? Or should only a few certain things be posted and it's simply known as THE TRUTH?

 

[moderated]

Are people really complaining that someone took time to put out thorough well thought out rankings?This whole hobby is based on opinions and the beauty is there is no answer key on what's going to actually happen.

Complaining? I'm debating. Isn't that the point of the SP? Or should only a few certain things be posted and it's simply known as THE TRUTH?

Debating is good, but you throw in insults that have nothing to do with the debate. Below are a couple of your doozies in this thread.

Leave the analysis to the real sharks

If you can't justify your opinion more than...well it's my opinion...then it isn't worth much. Given your record in the FF leagues i've played with you it seems consistent

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

What I could find onYAC

This makes me Watkins even more!!!!

hhahah BJ Cunningham made it on one of the lists!!! .. but yea Watkins is the truth.

But would you rather bank on Wakins or Keenan Allen as having the better NFL career?

Watkins and I'm serious!!! He's Deion Sanders on offense!!!

lol I gotta disagree for now... but I love your youtube videos... and I think I was wrong once or twice before. So I guess well just let it play out. just for the record, Watkins does look like the real deal. It just looks like wide receiver is so natural for Allen. I suppose its just my taste lately in west coast guys(Jahvid Best) lol...

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Are people really complaining that someone took time to put out thorough well thought out rankings?This whole hobby is based on opinions and the beauty is there is no answer key on what's going to actually happen.

Complaining? I'm debating. Isn't that the point of the SP? Or should only a few certain things be posted and it's simply known as THE TRUTH?

Debating is good, but you throw in insults that have nothing to do with the debate. Below are a couple of your doozies in this thread.

Leave the analysis to the real sharks

If you can't justify your opinion more than...well it's my opinion...then it isn't worth much. Given your record in the FF leagues i've played with you it seems consistent

As many insults as I receive in the SP it's child's play.I've provided lots of data to the thread...have you?Perhaps people read into my posts differently...but my intent is in my signature.

 

[BigTex]

What I could find onYAC

This makes me Watkins even more!!!!

hhahah BJ Cunningham made it on one of the lists!!! .. but yea Watkins is the truth.

But would you rather bank on Wakins or Keenan Allen as having the better NFL career?

Watkins and I'm serious!!! He's Deion Sanders on offense!!!

lol I gotta disagree for now... but I love your youtube videos... and I think I was wrong once or twice before. So I guess well just let it play out. just for the record, Watkins does look like the real deal. It just looks like wide receiver is so natural for Allen. I suppose its just my taste lately in west coast guys(Jahvid Best) lol...

LOL, thanks!! Don't misunderstand me I love Allen as I plan to draft him as one of my dev players but watching Watkins play and there's no question he's the BEST player on the field every single week. Absent any injuries and he's gonna smash some records!

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

Are people really complaining that someone took time to put out thorough well thought out rankings?This whole hobby is based on opinions and the beauty is there is no answer key on what's going to actually happen.

Complaining? I'm debating. Isn't that the point of the SP? Or should only a few certain things be posted and it's simply known as THE TRUTH?

Debating is good, but you throw in insults that have nothing to do with the debate. Below are a couple of your doozies in this thread.

Leave the analysis to the real sharks

If you can't justify your opinion more than...well it's my opinion...then it isn't worth much. Given your record in the FF leagues i've played with you it seems consistent

As many insults as I receive in the SP it's child's play.I've provided lots of data to the thread...have you?Perhaps people read into my posts differently...but my intent is in my signature.

I'm with you on Jeffery, I think he should be the best player in the WR class if he fulfills his potential that I saw two years ago.

 

[werdnoynek]

i think this could be a good discussion, it seems to be getting a bit combative but those things come and go. rankings are a matter of opinion because people value attributes differently... some like the big end-zone/possession targets who can go up and get it if its close. other people like the speedy waterbug types that can make things happen once the ball is in their hands. i think dynasty is a lot of opinion and gut feelings. drafting based on stats and measurements doesn't always work out and you miss out on a lot of diamonds in the rough. i think at this point with the draft over and our drafting taking place, it's a matter of wait and see and all we can do is voice our opinions and make our decision on those opinions. anyway here are mine...

firstly, i agree with EFT's floyd and wright assessments. i think both could be special in the nfl some day. i also agree with hill's low ranking but maybe not as low - he hasn't shown anything other than an incredibly impressive combine and has a lot of work to do. if he can learn the NFL game and to be more physical, he could also be special. again, he's got a lot to learn. i have a differing opinion of jeffrey and blackmon though. i agree with benson that jeffery is too low.... i think jeffery has a higher ceiling than blackmon.

to me, jeffery has showed signs of greatness early in his career. sure he was fluffy, but now he's trim. i don't think he was much heavier in 2011 than he was in 2010. he's always seemed a bit big and i'm of the opinion he took a lot of undeserved flack for that photo. unfortunately, it hurt his draft stock but that's not the only reason. imo, he could have been drafted higher than blackmon had it not been for the teams qb play in 2011, not to mention the stiff competition throughout his college career (i know, i know... if, then, but). in 2011, jeffery had almost half the receptions he had in 2010 yet still had 8 TDs to his 2010 9 TD's. i can't seem to find his target stats for college but i'd hazard to say he had half the targets he did in 2011 as in 2010. jeffery was a man among boys in 2010 but just didn't get the looks to prove he was the same last year. with the weight on or off he's a gamer in my book. imo he has deceptive mobility for his size/gait and can catch anything catch-able thrown his direction. i think the work he put in to silence the talk of weight/effort/speed issues says a lot in the kid. as a packer fan i hate saying this, but i also think chicago is an amazing landing spot for him. i think jeffery quickly becomes acclimated with the unafraid gunslinger, mr. jay grumpy cutler, and has a better rookie season than blackmon, continues the trend throughout their careers, and one day becomes a top 5 WR in the game. mark it dude.

when looking at college stats, blackmon looks like an absolute beast not to mention the two biletnikoff's. he also was a man among boys each week in college. he's an extremely impressive prospect on the surface, but i have some issues with him. blackmon was the main cog of that offense, playing against weak big 12 defenses week in and out his entire career. i just don't see him being the force he was in college in the NFL against NFL corners. i feel he doesn't have the vertical speed to compensate for his size and doesn't seem all that tough when being pressed. OSU's spread offense makes him look bigger and faster than he really is. i think it could take him more time to adjust to the more physical NFL game against NFL corners than guys like wright, floyd and jeffery. don't get me wrong, i do think blackmon can be a successful NFL player, i just question how successful... my guess would be perennial top 20.

i know it's an unpopular take on these guys, but i see what i see and again, these are my opinions...

 

[EBF]

I watched every Stanford game last season. Their defense faced some pretty good receivers. Marqise Lee, Robert Woods, Keenan Allen, and Marquess Wilson.

None of them eclipsed 100 yards.

Blackmon went for 186 and 3 scores.

The guy is a player. Not only in terms of stats, but in terms of how he does it. He puts the fear of god into defenders and is way more dominant physically than his raw workout numbers would indicate. The Blackmon vs. Jeffery debate is done and dusted, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

i think this could be a good discussion, it seems to be getting a bit combative but those things come and go. rankings are a matter of opinion because people value attributes differently... some like the big end-zone/possession targets who can go up and get it if its close. other people like the speedy waterbug types that can make things happen once the ball is in their hands. i think dynasty is a lot of opinion and gut feelings. drafting based on stats and measurements doesn't always work out and you miss out on a lot of diamonds in the rough. i think at this point with the draft over and our drafting taking place, it's a matter of wait and see and all we can do is voice our opinions and make our decision on those opinions. anyway here are mine...firstly, i agree with EFT's floyd and wright assessments. i think both could be special in the nfl some day. i also agree with hill's low ranking but maybe not as low - he hasn't shown anything other than an incredibly impressive combine and has a lot of work to do. if he can learn the NFL game and to be more physical, he could also be special. again, he's got a lot to learn. i have a differing opinion of jeffrey and blackmon though. i agree with benson that jeffery is too low.... i think jeffery has a higher ceiling than blackmon. to me, jeffery has showed signs of greatness early in his career. sure he was fluffy, but now he's trim. i don't think he was much heavier in 2011 than he was in 2010. he's always seemed a bit big and i'm of the opinion he took a lot of undeserved flack for that photo. unfortunately, it hurt his draft stock but that's not the only reason. imo, he could have been drafted higher than blackmon had it not been for the teams qb play in 2011, not to mention the stiff competition throughout his college career (i know, i know... if, then, but). in 2011, jeffery had almost half the receptions he had in 2010 yet still had 8 TDs to his 2010 9 TD's. i can't seem to find his target stats for college but i'd hazard to say he had half the targets he did in 2011 as in 2010. jeffery was a man among boys in 2010 but just didn't get the looks to prove he was the same last year. with the weight on or off he's a gamer in my book. imo he has deceptive mobility for his size/gait and can catch anything catch-able thrown his direction. i think the work he put in to silence the talk of weight/effort/speed issues says a lot in the kid. as a packer fan i hate saying this, but i also think chicago is an amazing landing spot for him. i think jeffery quickly becomes acclimated with the unafraid gunslinger, mr. jay grumpy cutler, and has a better rookie season than blackmon, continues the trend throughout their careers, and one day becomes a top 5 WR in the game. mark it dude.when looking at college stats, blackmon looks like an absolute beast not to mention the two biletnikoff's. he also was a man among boys each week in college. he's an extremely impressive prospect on the surface, but i have some issues with him. blackmon was the main cog of that offense, playing against weak big 12 defenses week in and out his entire career. i just don't see him being the force he was in college in the NFL against NFL corners. i feel he doesn't have the vertical speed to compensate for his size and doesn't seem all that tough when being pressed. OSU's spread offense makes him look bigger and faster than he really is. i think it could take him more time to adjust to the more physical NFL game against NFL corners than guys like wright, floyd and jeffery. don't get me wrong, i do think blackmon can be a successful NFL player, i just question how successful... my guess would be perennial top 20.i know it's an unpopular take on these guys, but i see what i see and again, these are my opinions...

I'm with EBF on the case of Blackmon. I'm pretty high on him...no part of his game seems to have an issue, outside of blazing speed. However I think that Blackmon plays to his maximum speed(unlike Stephen Hill) on the field. I do agree that Blackmon lighting up the Big 12 is scary because we relate that to many of the Big 12 WRs that have faultered: Michael Crabtree, Adarius Bowman, Dez Bryant. Granted some of these thought may be premature, however some owners had unrealistic expectations from the start. The thing I like about Blackmon is that he doesn't seem to have that knucklehead factor and hopefully will have better work ethic than these guys in the NFL. I don't like the Blaine Gabbert match for him.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Are people really complaining that someone took time to put out thorough well thought out rankings?This whole hobby is based on opinions and the beauty is there is no answer key on what's going to actually happen.

Complaining? I'm debating. Isn't that the point of the SP? Or should only a few certain things be posted and it's simply known as THE TRUTH?

Debating is good, but you throw in insults that have nothing to do with the debate. Below are a couple of your doozies in this thread.

Leave the analysis to the real sharks

If you can't justify your opinion more than...well it's my opinion...then it isn't worth much. Given your record in the FF leagues i've played with you it seems consistent

It's the same garbage by the same guy in every thread. Why do people continue to engage this guy? A single person can ruin the entire shark pool if they're allowed to.

 

[BigTex]

i think this could be a good discussion, it seems to be getting a bit combative but those things come and go. rankings are a matter of opinion because people value attributes differently... some like the big end-zone/possession targets who can go up and get it if its close. other people like the speedy waterbug types that can make things happen once the ball is in their hands. i think dynasty is a lot of opinion and gut feelings. drafting based on stats and measurements doesn't always work out and you miss out on a lot of diamonds in the rough. i think at this point with the draft over and our drafting taking place, it's a matter of wait and see and all we can do is voice our opinions and make our decision on those opinions. anyway here are mine...

firstly, i agree with EFT's floyd and wright assessments. i think both could be special in the nfl some day. i also agree with hill's low ranking but maybe not as low - he hasn't shown anything other than an incredibly impressive combine and has a lot of work to do. if he can learn the NFL game and to be more physical, he could also be special. again, he's got a lot to learn. i have a differing opinion of jeffrey and blackmon though. i agree with benson that jeffery is too low.... i think jeffery has a higher ceiling than blackmon.

to me, jeffery has showed signs of greatness early in his career. sure he was fluffy, but now he's trim. i don't think he was much heavier in 2011 than he was in 2010. he's always seemed a bit big and i'm of the opinion he took a lot of undeserved flack for that photo. unfortunately, it hurt his draft stock but that's not the only reason. imo, he could have been drafted higher than blackmon had it not been for the teams qb play in 2011, not to mention the stiff competition throughout his college career (i know, i know... if, then, but). in 2011, jeffery had almost half the receptions he had in 2010 yet still had 8 TDs to his 2010 9 TD's. i can't seem to find his target stats for college but i'd hazard to say he had half the targets he did in 2011 as in 2010. jeffery was a man among boys in 2010 but just didn't get the looks to prove he was the same last year. with the weight on or off he's a gamer in my book. imo he has deceptive mobility for his size/gait and can catch anything catch-able thrown his direction. i think the work he put in to silence the talk of weight/effort/speed issues says a lot in the kid. as a packer fan i hate saying this, but i also think chicago is an amazing landing spot for him. i think jeffery quickly becomes acclimated with the unafraid gunslinger, mr. jay grumpy cutler, and has a better rookie season than blackmon, continues the trend throughout their careers, and one day becomes a top 5 WR in the game. mark it dude.

when looking at college stats, blackmon looks like an absolute beast not to mention the two biletnikoff's. he also was a man among boys each week in college. he's an extremely impressive prospect on the surface, but i have some issues with him. blackmon was the main cog of that offense, playing against weak big 12 defenses week in and out his entire career. i just don't see him being the force he was in college in the NFL against NFL corners. i feel he doesn't have the vertical speed to compensate for his size and doesn't seem all that tough when being pressed. OSU's spread offense makes him look bigger and faster than he really is. i think it could take him more time to adjust to the more physical NFL game against NFL corners than guys like wright, floyd and jeffery. don't get me wrong, i do think blackmon can be a successful NFL player, i just question how successful... my guess would be perennial top 20.

i know it's an unpopular take on these guys, but i see what i see and again, these are my opinions...

He was #4 in the BCS in YARDS AFTER CATCH......He ran past some defenders on a regular basis!!!!

 

[BigTex]

I really need someone to show me some proof of Blackmon lacking vertical speed!!!! Does anyone have ANY video of him getting caught from behind?? How about him not being able to handle the press....any evidence???

 

[ty247]

I'm not sure why people are questioning Blackmon's size or speed.

Blackmon's 6'1", almost 210 and he ran a 4.45 40 time.

He would constantly beast mode in college and just take over games, and it didn't matter who he was playing against.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

It's the same garbage by the same guy in every thread. Why do people continue to engage this guy? A single person can ruin the entire shark pool if they're allowed to.

Without discussion or debating, we have no Shark Pool. What do you think is the point of a message board?

 

[BeTheMatch]

It's the same garbage by the same guy in every thread. Why do people continue to engage this guy? A single person can ruin the entire shark pool if they're allowed to.

Without discussion or debating, we have no Shark Pool. What do you think is the point of a message board?

You far too often don't debate or discuss. That's my point.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

It's the same garbage by the same guy in every thread. Why do people continue to engage this guy? A single person can ruin the entire shark pool if they're allowed to.

Without discussion or debating, we have no Shark Pool. What do you think is the point of a message board?

You far too often don't debate or discuss. That's my point.

That's relative. I really believe people misread my intent(read sig) or I can't portray it accurately. To gain the most knowledge on a topic, it needs to be discussed. Which means people need to discuss the good/the bad/the ugly. The only time I get remotely out of line is when a member posts something ridiculous. Such as "Well Jerry Rice didn't have a good 40 time" or "Wright looks better to me than Jeffery. I don't need to say anything beyond that." Neither of these statements will help you, me, or anyone else reading this topic gain any knowledge or change an opinion of a given player. The point of the SP, in my opinion, is to discuss players in many different ways so that we can learn/formulate better opinions of them moving forward.

 

[BeTheMatch]

It's the same garbage by the same guy in every thread. Why do people continue to engage this guy? A single person can ruin the entire shark pool if they're allowed to.

Without discussion or debating, we have no Shark Pool. What do you think is the point of a message board?

You far too often don't debate or discuss. That's my point.

That's relative.

I really believe people misread my intent(read sig) or I can't portray it accurately. To gain the most knowledge on a topic, it needs to be discussed. Which means people need to discuss the good/the bad/the ugly. The only time I get remotely out of line is when a member posts something ridiculous. Such as "Well Jerry Rice didn't have a good 40 time" or "Wright looks better to me than Jeffery. I don't need to say anything beyond that." Neither of these statements will help you, me, or anyone else reading this topic gain any knowledge or change an opinion of a given player. The point of the SP, in my opinion, is to discuss players in many different ways so that we can learn/formulate better opinions of them moving forward.

Yes, and relative to the rest of the Shark Pool, you like to throw your own feces at people the most. IMO, of course.

 

[Hoosier16]

I really need someone to show me some proof of Blackmon lacking vertical speed!!!! Does anyone have ANY video of him getting caught from behind?? How about him not being able to handle the press....any evidence???

I don't think they make highlight videos of those things.

 

[BigTex]

I really need someone to show me some proof of Blackmon lacking vertical speed!!!! Does anyone have ANY video of him getting caught from behind?? How about him not being able to handle the press....any evidence???

I don't think they make highlight videos of those things.

I didn't ask for highlights, just a video, a clip, a sideline reporter saying Blackmon is getting jammed at the line of scrimmage and is struggling...........give me something!!!!I really think some of you got Blackmon mixed up with Jeffery.

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't know fellas, I'm liking Alshon right now as the #3 guy behind Blackmon and Floyd, and the best VALUE overall at wideout. I think he's going to flourish with Cutler, Forte, and Marshall taking heat. He's not a similar player but will benefit much like Julio Jones did last season. Couple that with pourous secondaries in Green Bay, Minnesota, and Detroit and you are looking at a potential 65 catch, 900yd, 5-7 td type of rookie season.

Disclosure: I'm both a Gamecock and a Bears fan. But it's hard to exaggerate how bad the QB situation was last year in Columbia. Garcia was wildly inconsistent before being booted, and Connor Shaw really had no business starting for an SEC team. Throw in a stud at tailback in Lattimore, game planning for Jeffery by opposing DCs, and it's not hard to see why Spurrier went heavy with the run. People say that Jeffery is fat and slow, but he completely dominated the SEC (including now high NFL draftees Janoris Jenkins and Dre Fitzpatrick) with the same physique as a sophomore. And now they say he's down from 230 to 215. Had he come out a year earlier, how far would he been picked behind SEC peers AJ Green and Julio Jones? Instead, he was a good soldier as a junior, becoming a solid blocker and less frequent target for a team that won 11 games.Watch his games, and the guy is just money in the clutch, showing great hands and a real nose for the ball. Very doubtful he'll have any difficulty with the jam at the line or in any jump ball situations. With Cutler and the Bears, Jeffery is walking into a perfect situation, on a team with an aging defense and a need to score to keep up with high powered offenses in Green Bay and Detroit. I'm really struggling to understand why guys like Quick, Randle, and Hill are even in the same conversation with Jeffery. I'm even becoming more comfortable with the idea of taking him over Floyd in my 1/2 PPR rookie draft at 1.07.

My advice to you is to do it. Why not? All these guys are crap shoots. Every prospect is. You have logical reasons to take him. And you'll get to root for him every Sunday until 2022. I hate the Bears and I still like him as the third best wideout in this draft.

 

[werdnoynek]

I really need someone to show me some proof of Blackmon lacking vertical speed!!!! Does anyone have ANY video of him getting caught from behind?? How about him not being able to handle the press....any evidence???

I don't think they make highlight videos of those things.

I didn't ask for highlights, just a video, a clip, a sideline reporter saying Blackmon is getting jammed at the line of scrimmage and is struggling...........give me something!!!!I really think some of you got Blackmon mixed up with Jeffery.

i think it's evident in every game i watch. when it's the trademark OSU dink and dunk short passes he does well when the ball is in his hands and cb's are running at him. but when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and they're pressing or running with him, he lacks the strength or speed to beat them. them being the horrendous big 12 secondaries he faced his entire career.

 

[squistion]

I really need someone to show me some proof of Blackmon lacking vertical speed!!!! Does anyone have ANY video of him getting caught from behind?? How about him not being able to handle the press....any evidence???

I don't think they make highlight videos of those things.

I didn't ask for highlights, just a video, a clip, a sideline reporter saying Blackmon is getting jammed at the line of scrimmage and is struggling...........give me something!!!!I really think some of you got Blackmon mixed up with Jeffery.

Don't have a clip, but (for what it is worth) here is another opinion from columnist Jesse Reed at Bleacher Report: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1162372-nfl-draft-2012-results-biggest-reaches-and-steals-of-top-10

Blackmon has his limitations. He is a brilliant after-the-catch runner, but his size isn't that of a No. 1 receiver and he isn't exactly explosive off the line.

He'll struggle to separate when jammed at the line of scrimmage by the bigger man-to-man corners in the NFL, and at best he is going to be a No. 2 receiver in this league.

 

[BigTex]

I really need someone to show me some proof of Blackmon lacking vertical speed!!!! Does anyone have ANY video of him getting caught from behind?? How about him not being able to handle the press....any evidence???

I don't think they make highlight videos of those things.

I didn't ask for highlights, just a video, a clip, a sideline reporter saying Blackmon is getting jammed at the line of scrimmage and is struggling...........give me something!!!!I really think some of you got Blackmon mixed up with Jeffery.

i think it's evident in every game i watch. when it's the trademark OSU dink and dunk short passes he does well when the ball is in his hands and cb's are running at him. but when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and they're pressing or running with him, he lacks the strength or speed to beat them. them being the horrendous big 12 secondaries he faced his entire career.

LOL, evident??? Where?? What's MORE important to a WR especially as fantasy is concerned, what you do with the ball in your hands or when the play is going in another direction?