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[Dynasty] 2014 Draft Prospects (2 Viewers)
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I am. I know better than to use the word 'never'.
loose circuits
Footballguy
Was Quincy Enunwa's day big enough to get recognized? 6-2 230 lbs and if I had to guess 4.5 wheels. Caught 12 TDs this year. Reminds me of a cross between TO and David Boston before roided out. Seems to be flying way below radar because I have not heard anyone mention him
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He is a big guy and he looked impressive today. This years crop of rookies is deeper than any crop that I can remember. If more folks come out of the woodwork at the combine (they always do) this could be the deepest draft ever for skill position players.
This draft is so deep on talent!!!
MAC_32
Footballguy
better. I understand your argument, but there are exceptions to every rule. Given his skillset and play on the field I think he could be one of them.
Jeremy Hill
If Wednesday's performance – 28 carries, 216 yards, two touchdowns – was Hill's last as a college player, he made it one to remember. Hill is among a host of draft-eligible players on the Tigers' roster who could leave for the NFL. LSU coach Les Miles said afterward that “there's a chance” that star receivers Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham could declare for the draft, but Hill said while accepting bowl MVP honors that he still must weigh his decision.
LSU's Jeremy Hill earned Outback Bowl MVP honors, rushing for 216 yards and two touchdowns.
Among the factors he said he will consider: the NFL draft advisory board's feedback on where he might be drafted, his family's input and his role within the LSU offense, should he opt to return.
“There's a lot that goes into it. It's a big decision, but like I said, I'm not thinking about it right now,” Hill said. “I'm just enjoying this win and when we get back to Baton Rouge, we'll figure all that out.”
His role on Wednesday was as a battering ram. By becoming the first LSU back since Alley Broussard in 2004 to crack the 200-yard mark in a game, Hill finished the season with 1,401 rushing yards and 16 touchdowns, totals that rank second and fourth on LSU's single-season lists.
The junior tailback hasn't just been an effective clock-eater at the end of a victory since he arrived at LSU. He's been doing this since his days at Redemptorist High School in Baton Rouge, La.
“It's just something that I took way back in high school. Our coaches just put it in my hands and just told me to go win the football game,” Hill said after putting away Iowa in the Tigers' 21-14 victory in Wednesday's Outback Bowl. “You just have to have that mentality. Great players have that mentality. When everyone's looking for someone to make a play, just being in a tight game the whole time … I just took it on my shoulders that I needed to make plays to win this football game, and that's exactly what happened.”
If Wednesday's performance – 28 carries, 216 yards, two touchdowns – was Hill's last as a college player, he made it one to remember. Hill is among a host of draft-eligible players on the Tigers' roster who could leave for the NFL. LSU coach Les Miles said afterward that “there's a chance” that star receivers Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham could declare for the draft, but Hill said while accepting bowl MVP honors that he still must weigh his decision.
LSU's Jeremy Hill earned Outback Bowl MVP honors, rushing for 216 yards and two touchdowns.
Among the factors he said he will consider: the NFL draft advisory board's feedback on where he might be drafted, his family's input and his role within the LSU offense, should he opt to return.
“There's a lot that goes into it. It's a big decision, but like I said, I'm not thinking about it right now,” Hill said. “I'm just enjoying this win and when we get back to Baton Rouge, we'll figure all that out.”
His role on Wednesday was as a battering ram. By becoming the first LSU back since Alley Broussard in 2004 to crack the 200-yard mark in a game, Hill finished the season with 1,401 rushing yards and 16 touchdowns, totals that rank second and fourth on LSU's single-season lists.
The junior tailback hasn't just been an effective clock-eater at the end of a victory since he arrived at LSU. He's been doing this since his days at Redemptorist High School in Baton Rouge, La.
“It's just something that I took way back in high school. Our coaches just put it in my hands and just told me to go win the football game,” Hill said after putting away Iowa in the Tigers' 21-14 victory in Wednesday's Outback Bowl. “You just have to have that mentality. Great players have that mentality. When everyone's looking for someone to make a play, just being in a tight game the whole time … I just took it on my shoulders that I needed to make plays to win this football game, and that's exactly what happened.”
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
what did brady n brees check in at, at the combine?wdcrob said:
jurb26
Footballguy
I'm not sure about Brees but I've already posted Brady. 6'5", 210
Skinnier than Teddy.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Whitney26
Footballguy
For the number crunchers, I just calculated the Production Ratio for this years WR group.....% of teams receiving yards & TDs.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AotIVo4gpWF8dFZBTDhmM01WeU9CMzliOEZMNVByS1E&gid=48
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AotIVo4gpWF8dFZBTDhmM01WeU9CMzliOEZMNVByS1E&gid=48
jeter23
Footballguy
Hey Tony, I didn't know you were on here. Thanks for the link. That doc is unreal. I'll spend a few hours checking out that info!
Whitney26
Footballguy
I always like to visit the FBG and DLF forums. Always something to learn. Another draft season is about to ramp up.....my favorite time of year. Hope all is well with you bro.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Leaving aside that he's a completely different type of QB than Bridgewater, remind me...
When did Brady get drafted? And what's his current playing weight? Should we assume that everyone can pack that much productive weight on? Or was the possibility that Brady wouldn't be able to gain that much weight part of the reason he fell? i.e. teams perceived it as a risk factor?
And there's was nothing wrong with Brees's build. Short isn't a problem.
I'm kind of surprised this is controversial: when you spend a top-x (or even first round) pick let some other guy take their chances on a player who doesn't look like other successful players at the position.
Maybe Bridgewater turns out great -- but IMO the fact that there's almost no one like him at QB (assuming 195 is right) should mean that you don't spend a high pick on him. There will be many safer picks available.
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jurb26
Footballguy
What does Brady's draft position have to do with you're original statement? Here it is;"Because there's no evidence that being short has anything to do with being a poor QB, and there's tons of evidence suggesting that being thin does. "
We have seen Brady over his 14 year career and know that he very well can play QB and his thin frame was never an issue.
Brady fell in the draft because he was not a highly impressive player in college. He struggled to get on the field at Michigan, at one point being 7th string. He battled other drafted QBs, Griese and Hanson along the way. As I recall his college career was so lack luster that the only reason he got an invite to the combine was his stellar bowl performance vs. Bama his final year. Once there the QB coach at NE took notice and well, the rest is history.
Brady has put on 15 Pounds since the combine 14 years ago. It's impossible to say when exactly he put each pound but I'd imagine it was over the course of a few years. That seems consistent with other players. Yes, Bridgewater should have no problem added weight as well. There is absolutely no reason to think otherwise. How much weight? I don't know and neither does anyone else. His a kid and will continue to fill out his body. He will train harder and with more focus as a pro and get better, more specialized attention.
Another guy that fits the bill of rail thin but having a great NFL career, Randle Cunningham. Cunningham left college at 6'5", 175. He, like Brady, put on significant weight in the NFL eventually reaching 215.
Some others who where thin at the combine and similar build to Bridgewater;
Anthony Wright - carved out a decent career for himself as a backup and performed well when called to start.
Oscar Davenport - historical known for one of the worst Wonderlic scores of all time, 6. Undrafted and considered too much of a project.
Aaron Brooks - great NFL career.
Joe Hamilton - measured in at 5'10", 192. Too small to play.
Shane Griggs - 6'4", 199 and Undrafted.
Seneca Wallace - 6'1", 196 having a decent career as a backup.
Reggie McNeal - 6'2", 198 drafted to play WR, not QB.
Pat White - 6'1", 197 drafted 44 overall to play QB.
Looking back at the combine results to 1999 these are the best height/weight comps I can find. Nothing in this suggests to me that thin guys can't play. It seems to me that the hit rate on QBs is extremely small to begin with and that simply translate down to this small segment of players as well. On top of that, none of these guys above have the arm talent of Bridgewater and many were considered athlete QBs, not true pocket QBs. Bridgewater is a pocket QB with some athletic ability. I really don't think any of these guys are good comps except for maybe Brooks.
On the contrary there seems to be a slew of evidence to suggest shorter QBs have a harder time.
Quotes about Russell Wilson;
Chris Weinke, "If he was 6-5, he'd probably be the No. 1 pick in the draft."
Jon Gruden, "The only issue with Russell Wilson is his height. That might be the reason he's not picked in the first couple rounds."
From NFL.com profile, "WEAKNESSES Wilson's height will be his biggest inhibitor at the next level and the largest reason for his late-round value. It remains to be seen if he can throw effectively from the pocket at the next level."
Drew Brees;
Quote from the nfldraftscout profile, "Negatives...Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws...Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment."
Everything I've ever heard is that being short is a detriment to being an NFL QB. It makes it harder to see down field and get through reads. It also makes it harder to get the ball over the Dlineman, the exact reason QBs no matter their height are coached to release it high and tight. This doesn't mean that short guys can't make it. It simply means they have a tougher hill to climb and must compensate for that height with very strong recognition and scanning skills. Brees is a master of that.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
What number would make you more comfortable? Most prospects put in work to be at the weight that they think teams want to see them at. If Teddy is 195 right now, he won't be in February. What do his comps look like at 200? 205? 210?
It's not rhetorical question - I'm very interested in hearing what Teddy would need to weigh to measure up to players who have had success at the pro level.
jurb26
Footballguy
He doesn't need to change at all to measure up with players who have had success. He may not have the atypical bulk of what most guys have, but there doesn't seem to be anything to suggest he can't be successful. I think he will increase his weight none the less. He's going to be spending a lot of time focusing on whatever it is he thinks teams want to see. If weight is one then he will simply hit the gym. On top of that, as he matures he will naturally fill out his body.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Rob seems to try and put people into molds/modles of his measureables and if they dont meet the criteria, then he isnt going to like them
The kid is a Junior and weights 195, no reason to think he cant add 15 lbs of mussle. 6'3" certainly isnt a detremint, the guys a football player plain and simple, Ill take him.
What was your reasoning on Keenan Allen again? wasnt he basically a "dont draft" based on your models? Well guess what? he was the best rookie WR by far.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
He looks really good when they give him the ball but they don't throw any passes to him. It doesn't look like they throw to any RB's really. So we don't really know how good he is at catching passes. If he doesn't look good catching passes at the combine I don't see how he can be drafted #1 overall in rookie drafts this year.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
is there anything besides his height/weight ratio that you dont like?
What was your issue with Keenan Allen again? I remember you saying something like, I feel sorry for any NFL team drafting him or some such
jurb26
Footballguy
He doesn't seem very intent on adding substance to some strong claims.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
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Bronx Bomber
Footballguy
What is it exactly that you are worried about with Bridgewater's weight, taking a hit? Do you question his arm strength or decision making because of his weight? I guess I'm not really sure what the problem is besides him taking punishment, but he's not a rushing QB so why does it matter? Or is it a strictly "successful QBs weight 'X' and he doesn't fit that criteria? " type thought
Denver724
Footballguy
I'm not impressed either. Never really been a huge fan. But he may turn into a Charles or McCoy. A real gamble in my opinion.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I think it does come down to injury risk and abililty/willingness to take a hit. You can get away with a lot in college that you can't do in the pros. Arm strength is overrated IMO (at least beyond a threshold), but it makes sense that it's related to bulk, on average.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I already said that Bridgewater's H/W is a problem because he takes a TON of sacks. Either he's keeping plays alive by moving around or he has terrible pocket awareness. I haven't seen him play so I can't speak to which -- but either will get him killed in the NFL @ 195.
I said Allen would be a mistake as a first rounder. I'll stand by that too. IMO he's not good enough to hang onto the #1 spot for very long and his success will always be tied to a good situation.
i.e. Mike Glennon's not going to chuck the ball to someone like Allen 10x a game. And if he did defenses would be able to shut him out without a surrounding cast. I want guys whose value isn't (as) tied to situation.
lardonastick
Footballguy
Oregon State WR Brandin Cooks declares for 2014 NFL Draft
By Dan Greenspan
College Football 24/7 writer
By Dan Greenspan
College Football 24/7 writer
Milkman
Footballguy
We def have to take that into consideration. I wouldn't say Shock Linwood looks just as good but he def looks good which makes you wonder how much Seastunk's numbers are inflated by the wide open offense that Baylor runs.
EBF
Footballguy
Shock looks good, but "just as good" might be pushing it.
Remember that Seastrunk was a 5 star recruit out of high school. Even before he stepped on the field in college, he was touted as a special talent. I think Baylor's offense is very friendly (see: Ganaway), but that doesn't also mean the players on the team can't be legit (see: Gordon, Wright).
Milkman
Footballguy
Cooks looks amazing on tape but I have to say I have seen him get bullied around a little in some games. I would feel really good about drafting him in the 1st round if he was closer to 195-200 pounds. I don't think he can win on the outside. It doesn't mean he can't be one of the better slot WR in the NFL. It would be great to see him go to a team with an elite/accurate QB like Cobb did. That would help him immensely.Faust said:
doowain
Footballguy
I've seen Odell Beckham in the first round of some mocks. As an owner of his in a devy league, I'm intrigued to see where he goes. He'll likely help some team immediately in the return game, where he is electric. Whether he sees the field much as a WR in Year 1 will depend heavily on who drafts him.
Here is an insane catch he made during the Outback Bowl. How big are his freaking hands? There are two clips out there as well that show him one handing kickoffs in the endzone.
Here is an insane catch he made during the Outback Bowl. How big are his freaking hands? There are two clips out there as well that show him one handing kickoffs in the endzone.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
They both look REALLY good to me. Lache's sample size is much bigger, obviously, and that needs to be taken into account. But I'd say Shock's looked just as good with his touches (watching the OU game as I type this).EBF said:
I'm trying to understand why our opinion of Seastrunk isn't shared by draftniks. As someone who puts a lot of stock into what the professionals think (TBD, still), it's somewhat concerning to me. I'm just exploring the potential reasoning behind the lack of excitement, outside of the dynasty community.
ETA: And Shock's getting a lot of buzz now, too. CBS has him as the #2 back in his class, behind only Collins and ahead of Tyner. Someone from NFL.com (can't remember the name) called him an LT clone.
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coolnerd
Footballguy
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/02/teddy-bridgewater-2014-nfl-draft/
Very pro Teddy Bridgewater article about things we can't really measure
Very pro Teddy Bridgewater article about things we can't really measure
Xue
Footballguy
Shock has more strength/power but less long speed and doesn't cut as well. Different style of runners.
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah this is bothering me too. I've read some stuff where they are questioning his vision but I can't remember where. Have to look into if he is leaving yards on the field. ......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZUWEcP71Ag
50 Yards on one leg. Good enough for me.
Seriously, though, to me he is the rb in this class by a wide margin.....
50 Yards on one leg. Good enough for me.
Seriously, though, to me he is the rb in this class by a wide margin.....
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Why no love for Grice? He had quite a bit of top 5 pick buzz early on. The injury isn't a likely long-term concern.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I agree. However, I really like the way Shock cuts; they're not exaggerated, which is less visually appealing, but they're effective.
I was really surprised at his ability to bounce off of contact. I didn't know much about him prior to the OU game, but have really liked what I have seen in going back. He's very tough in pass protection too. I like seeing that in backs.
