Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
Thanks for the combine information above, that is very appreciated and useful info....... I am really warming up to Sankey, especially if he goes to a good situation.
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[Dynasty] 2014 Draft Prospects (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Xue
- Start date
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Did Lache seastrunk skip the 3-cone? or is it missing from the reports?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Looks like he skipped it. A bunch of them did. Usually most of the guys who don't do it at the combine will run it at their pro days.
Faust
MVP
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remember when Simms said he'd quit if Ryan Mallett wasn't a top 10 player in the draft? That was a pleasant, albeit brief, fantasy.
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
jurb26
Footballguy
Most of you already know I've been a Landry backer for a long time. Man, 4.7 is hard to overlook though. I really hope he does better on his pro day. I really like this kid from his on field performance.
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
Meh, so he's not a speed demon, with his receiving and route running ability he doesn't have to be, especially when in an underneath role. Watching his highlights he looks fast enough. Would love to see him on the Patriots, and with Edelman being a FA and Amendola's inability to stay healthy I could see it happen too.Most of you already know I've been a Landry backer for a long time. Man, 4.7 is hard to overlook though. I really hope he does better on his pro day. I really like this kid from his on field performance.
Milkman
Footballguy
I don't understand why basically nobody is ranking Evans higher than Watkins. Evans ceiling is significantly higher and with his combination of size/speed/hands his floor is basically the same as Watkins if not higher as well. I'm not taking anything away from Watkins he looks legit but a smart team would draft Evans before Watkins. Watkins is going to end up with the Oakland or Jacksonville and Evans is going to go to St Louis or maybe Detroit. lololololol
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Ceiling is significantly higher? How's that? I can't agree with the floor either. Evans looked good in his underwear but he needs to show that speed in game. He's very stiff in pads and doesn't look like he'll handle the bigger / quicker CB's in the NFL IMO. He doesn't seperate all that well and he rarely ran anything other than fades/posts/corners with A&M and his floor (initially) is going to be lower than many of the other WR's coming out because of it. It's going to take some time for him to learn to play the position IMO especially in traffic being as big as he is and the little experience in that aspect he got at A&M. Not to mention, I can't get over how he disappeared in most of his big games against NFL caliber corners (most... save the Bama game).
It's clear you heavily weigh combine performance in your analysis and I get that (though may not agree with it). I just can't see how Evans has a higher ceiling and higher floor than Watkins. Evans is not a game changer like Watkins at this point... though I'm not saying he never will be. I think they both could become top 5 WR's in the NFL but Watkins is closer to being there now than Evans is and it's not close.
Milkman
Footballguy
He's nearly 6'5 231 pounds, runs a 4.5, what looks like borderline elite hands, 37 inch vert, insanely long arms. His ceiling is #1 WR in the NFL. I'm not saying he's a lock to get there (He's obviously not) but if he turns into an elite red zone target it won't take a bunch of catches and yards for him to be a top 5 WR every year for a long time. I see a little Jimmy Graham in him.
Watkins ceiling is not #1 WR in the NFL. I put his ceiling more in the 6-12 range. Watkins is a great player and I understand why people have him as their #1 WR in this draft. He's def in the conversation. I'm just surprised nobody out there has Evans as their #1.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
They must be looking at other things than triangle numbers (height, weight and speed).
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah I could understand this more if Evans tape was bad but it's not. Sure he struggled in some games but teams adjusted the way they played him. He averaged over 20 yards a catch. That's a pretty insane number.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
There are certainly gradations and playing/skill nuances between good and bad.
I think Evans is deservedly the #2 WR in the class.
The point I was trying to make is that seemingly scouts think Watkins skill advantage tips the overall advantage in his favor, despite Evans height/weight advantage.
MAC_32
Footballguy
After re watching some Sankey tape I am sticking with my initial evaluation. Just a guy. Someone is going to be fooled by that workout, but he just gets what is given and sometimes not even that. Opportunity is most important for RB, so he has value, but lack of talent will catch up to him eventually.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
werdnoynek
Footballguy
It's clear you watched the combine, because it seems to me all you talk about is measurables when discussing prospects. Can we talk about the game these prospects are going to play and how they play it?
Being big, having big hands, long arms, jumping kinda high, and running in a straight line fast does not make you an elite WR in the NFL.
Evans has a longer road to the elite level than Watkins, by a wide margin IMO.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
I agree that he doesn't have a lot of moves. Sankey won't make a lot of people miss. But in my opinion, he makes up for it with good vision and excellent acceleration so to hit the hole he finds. His instincts are sound; he knows when to put his head down and settle for 2 yards. He has good enough power to get some yards after contact. He can block well and catch passes.MAC_32 said:
I can't disagree too much about your 'just a guy' verdict for Sankey when compared to the elite running backs in the NFL. But I'd like to ask: who do you think is better than 'just a guy' from this class? You may have a few answers to this question, but I doubt you would bet the ranch on said player. On the other hand, I believe Sankey is a pretty safe selection as a plug in foundation back, albeit not spectacular. Just my two cents.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Boldin ran a 4.71 but played a lot faster, and was drafted in the second. I think Landry was previously viewed as a possible second or third round prospect, so with the depth of the class, he could drop to day three. Maybe he improves his time at the pro day (Boldin did to a 4.59, I think).Time Kibitzer said:Meh, so he's not a speed demon, with his receiving and route running ability he doesn't have to be, especially when in an underneath role. Watching his highlights he looks fast enough. Would love to see him on the Patriots, and with Edelman being a FA and Amendola's inability to stay healthy I could see it happen too.jurb26 said:Most of you already know I've been a Landry backer for a long time. Man, 4.7 is hard to overlook though. I really hope he does better on his pro day. I really like this kid from his on field performance.Time Kibitzer said:Faust said:
MAC_32
Footballguy
i would bet on Hyde. If I can only select one other back then I wouldn't fault a team for drafting Sankey, but teams can draft multiple ones and some have room to roll the dice on a specialist or riskier guy with a higher ceiling, i.e. Crowell. He's exactly the type I would like as a backup, but if the choices are him for a second, Terrance West for a fifth, or Josey + Crowell in the sixth and the seventh Sankey is my last choice. Similar story with Tre Mason. Fourth round? Sure, but not a day two priority.
Sports Illustrated article pieces...
RB Bishop Sankey, Washington (59, 209) - He ran a better-than-expected 4.49 40-yard dash, did 26 reps on the bench press which was 2nd among running backs, and had the best times in both the 3-cone and 20-yard shuttle. If not for Jerick McKinnons ridiculous workout numbers, Sankey would have had the best combine workouts for RBs. When you combine his workouts with his smooth hands in the receiving drills and his production in college (1,870 yards, 20 TD), you have the #1 RB in this years draft class and a 2nd round lock.
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RB Charles Sims, West Virginia (60, 214) - Sims is a do-it-all back whose only question mark was his straight-line speed. His 40 (4.48) was a hair faster than Sankeys and the 6th best time among running backs. Sims was one of the best pass-blockers at the Senior Bowl and one of the best in the receiving drills at the combine. Hes a well-rounded back whose stock has skyrocketed this off-season. Its surprising that Sims is under the radar considering hes been compared to Matt Forte and DeMarco Murray by analysts this off-season.
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RB Isaiah Crowell, Alabama St (511, 224) - One of those red-flag guys (firearms, charges dropped) who bounced around to different schools; You might remember Crowell as the SEC freshman of the year at Georgia in 2011. This was an important combine for Crowell who has been hidden away at Alabama St the last two seasons. He has dominated (6.6 YPC, 15 TDs), but the SWAC isnt exactly loaded with NFL caliber talent. Crowell needed to show that he has NFL athleticism and that is exactly what he did. His 4.57 40-time was solid for a 224 pound back, he showed great strength with 23 bench reps, and good explosion with a 38″ vertical leap. If Crowell is mature enough to stay out of trouble, he could be a steal for some team willing to gamble on day 3.
RB Bishop Sankey, Washington (59, 209) - He ran a better-than-expected 4.49 40-yard dash, did 26 reps on the bench press which was 2nd among running backs, and had the best times in both the 3-cone and 20-yard shuttle. If not for Jerick McKinnons ridiculous workout numbers, Sankey would have had the best combine workouts for RBs. When you combine his workouts with his smooth hands in the receiving drills and his production in college (1,870 yards, 20 TD), you have the #1 RB in this years draft class and a 2nd round lock.
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RB Charles Sims, West Virginia (60, 214) - Sims is a do-it-all back whose only question mark was his straight-line speed. His 40 (4.48) was a hair faster than Sankeys and the 6th best time among running backs. Sims was one of the best pass-blockers at the Senior Bowl and one of the best in the receiving drills at the combine. Hes a well-rounded back whose stock has skyrocketed this off-season. Its surprising that Sims is under the radar considering hes been compared to Matt Forte and DeMarco Murray by analysts this off-season.
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RB Isaiah Crowell, Alabama St (511, 224) - One of those red-flag guys (firearms, charges dropped) who bounced around to different schools; You might remember Crowell as the SEC freshman of the year at Georgia in 2011. This was an important combine for Crowell who has been hidden away at Alabama St the last two seasons. He has dominated (6.6 YPC, 15 TDs), but the SWAC isnt exactly loaded with NFL caliber talent. Crowell needed to show that he has NFL athleticism and that is exactly what he did. His 4.57 40-time was solid for a 224 pound back, he showed great strength with 23 bench reps, and good explosion with a 38″ vertical leap. If Crowell is mature enough to stay out of trouble, he could be a steal for some team willing to gamble on day 3.
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Updated Running Back Rankings:
http://www.drafttek.com/2014-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-RBs-2014-Draft.asp
http://www.drafttek.com/2014-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-RBs-2014-Draft.asp
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I wish someone can explain the love for Troy Niklas. Why would an NFL team take him in the second round if he has inconsistent hands like he displayed at the combine?
jurb26
Footballguy
Of those concerns, 2 can be corrected rather easily with coaching.
cstu
Footballguy
True, it's just difficult to judge who is going to learn it and who won't. Pass protection seems to be an issue for most of the top RB's in this class.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
I disagree with this. I mean, if you think Sankey has only average initial burst, I wonder what you'd call Hyde's initial burst.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
It would not surprise me if Hyde became a decent NFL back. He has good vision, very good agility for his size, and a well rounded skill set. I must admit though, I have my reservation because I cannot ignore how slow he looks, which his 40 time confirms. Top end speed may be decent, he's had some big runs, but Hyde has very poor acceleration. This concerns me.
Again, it wouldn't shock me if he was good in the NFL, but he won't be on my dynasty team.
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Xue
Footballguy
I don't put too much stock into the combine drills. Some guys look a lot better on the field and vice versa. Allen Robinson is a WR who looked horrible in the gauntlet, but I haven't seen anyone concerned with it.
Jedimaster21
Footballguy
Everyone is talking about Sankey, but is Mason flying under the radar here? IMO, he looks the part on film and dominated against fantastic competition in big games. I was very surprised by his elite measurable at the combine, and a 4.50 is more than fast enough. BMI is almost perfect. I think he is my #1 RB right now...and I wouldn't be surprised if he was picked at the end of the 1st come May.
EBF
Footballguy
I think by the time rookie drafts roll around there will be plenty of optimism for Mason. There are lots of people who like him already and I think he has a chance to be the first back off the board in the NFL draft. About the only thing that might give people pause is that he's short and not blazing fast. Even though there are lots of good short RBs in the NFL, the league seems a little biased against them as draft prospects. I'm not sure there's been a sub 5'9" RB taken in the 1st round in the past decade. The best players from that height group (MJD, Rice, Westbrook, Sproles) all fell further than their talent warranted in hindsight.
Mason is really solid for his height, but it still comes out to a weight of just 207 pounds, which isn't enormous independent of height. MJD is the exact same weight, but 1.5" shorter and significantly faster in the 40 (4.39 vs. 4.50). I don't think Mason's size is going to be a big problem, but if he were scaled up to 5'10" with the same BMI then I think he'd probably be a first round pick. As the 5'8" version of that player, I think he probably goes somewhere in the 2nd. I was only lukewarm on his prospects prior to the combine, but his numbers in the tests were outstanding and I thought he looked like the best RB there in the positional drills.
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I don't think that Mason is flying under the radar. He is my number 2 RB (very close with Sankey and Mason - I don't think you can go wrong) and you are correct that 4.50 is fast enough. He runs with a lot of power for a smaller back...
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I like Mason a lot, too (he has some similarities to Ray Rice - broke Bo Jackson's school record). I think he, Hyde and Hill are the top three RBs in the class, and he could be drafted first and eventually the best. I didn't see if he caught the ball naturally in the combine drills, but I don't think he was asked to do that much at Auburn*, and he definitely wasn't asked to pass protect much, so that is a question (though it is with nearly all college RBs, I think Sims maybe the best at those skills in this class - I'd much rather have Mason).
Mason will be in a somwhat unusual position in that his NFL run blocking could be a downgrade from college!
Robinson is a monster.
* 19 receptions total in three seasons.
Mason will be in a somwhat unusual position in that his NFL run blocking could be a downgrade from college!
Robinson is a monster.* 19 receptions total in three seasons.
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cstu
Footballguy
Watched a lot of Adams and my take - a slightly smaller, faster Anquan Boldin. Not as physical, but he's got great technique, hands and YAC ability.
The one caveat I have is that he needs an accurate QB since he won't leave much room for error since he doesn't get much separation.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
Carr threw some phenomenal touch passes, that's for sure. Adams seems physical enough, and wins battles. I think his closest comp is Roddy White. Nearly identical size and build/frame. Roddy White has a slight edge in metrics but Adams is right behind him and both show elite-level vert/broad. Roddy has a tenth faster 40 time which I don't think will matter much at the next level.
But yeah, I really want this guy and I just hope I don't miss. I'm looking at the 1.14 and 1.15 in one dynasty and I really hope he falls there.
No worries - he will be there for you (unless you play in a start two flex league or start 4 WR league). You probably will have a choice to make at 1.14 and 1.15.
Matthews or Cooks could slip (probably not), Richardson, Moncreif, Robinson, Bryant, Coleman, Benjamin could be there too - along with some decent RB options....
I think you will get your man there if you still want him come draft time....
