[Dynasty] 2015 Draft Prospects (1 Viewer)

[Zyphros]

All I keep hearing is how good Gordon/Gurley are and although I agree this years RB class looks outstanding in the 2nd tier and beyond. My favorites include Jeremy Langford and Javorius Allen. Although they are both 23 (minor knock), they look the part. I don't hear these names as top5 RB's (or barely top10 in some cases I've seen) in this class and am astounded by the depth this class has to offer. Even my top10 right now, I would be pretty happy and relatively confident in them being solid NFL players. Is it really this deep? I am not as impressed when it comes to WR's and see a very large drop off after the top3-4.

Curious to hear some of other peoples "under the radar" RB's as well.

IMHO, you must ask what was the level of competition. Depending how you at it, it plays a roll. Could be great, could be small but it must be accounted for especially considering the position they play......just my opinion. Not in my top 5, not close.

Tex

I'm not saying they are in my top5, just that they are 2 of my favorites that seem to look good, regardless of competition. Where you rank them is your business, but I was merely pointing out that even the guys in the top10 or so seem to look good on film that could be potential starters, which is more than any RB class in recent memory.

Just haven't had a draft where I really like 10 prospects at 1 position so much. I would say the obvious top5 is Gurley/Gordon/Coleman/Abdullah/Yeldon (not necessarily in order) right now, and even though I don't agree with some of that it seems to be the consensus, but there's 5 more (if not more than that) to round out a top10 that I would love to have as well.

 

[Gandalf]

All I keep hearing is how good Gordon/Gurley are and although I agree this years RB class looks outstanding in the 2nd tier and beyond. My favorites include Jeremy Langford and Javorius Allen. Although they are both 23 (minor knock), they look the part. I don't hear these names as top5 RB's (or barely top10 in some cases I've seen) in this class and am astounded by the depth this class has to offer. Even my top10 right now, I would be pretty happy and relatively confident in them being solid NFL players. Is it really this deep? I am not as impressed when it comes to WR's and see a very large drop off after the top3-4.

Curious to hear some of other peoples "under the radar" RB's as well.

David Cobb, Josh Robinson.

Hey Xue, what do you like about these guys? I haven't seen much of them.

 

[BigTex]

All I keep hearing is how good Gordon/Gurley are and although I agree this years RB class looks outstanding in the 2nd tier and beyond. My favorites include Jeremy Langford and Javorius Allen. Although they are both 23 (minor knock), they look the part. I don't hear these names as top5 RB's (or barely top10 in some cases I've seen) in this class and am astounded by the depth this class has to offer. Even my top10 right now, I would be pretty happy and relatively confident in them being solid NFL players. Is it really this deep? I am not as impressed when it comes to WR's and see a very large drop off after the top3-4.

Curious to hear some of other peoples "under the radar" RB's as well.

IMHO, you must ask what was the level of competition. Depending how you at it, it plays a roll. Could be great, could be small but it must be accounted for especially considering the position they play......just my opinion. Not in my top 5, not close.Tex

I'm not saying they are in my top5, just that they are 2 of my favorites that seem to look good, regardless of competition. Where you rank them is your business, but I was merely pointing out that even the guys in the top10 or so seem to look good on film that could be potential starters, which is more than any RB class in recent memory. Just haven't had a draft where I really like 10 prospects at 1 position so much. I would say the obvious top5 is Gurley/Gordon/Coleman/Abdullah/Yeldon (not necessarily in order) right now, and even though I don't agree with some of that it seems to be the consensus, but there's 5 more (if not more than that) to round out a top10 that I would love to have as well.

Then I misunderstood because you said:

"I don't hear these names as top5 RB's (or barely top10 in some cases I've seen) in this class and am astounded by the depth this class has to offer."

This made it sound like you have them in your top 5 or 10, or that they should be.....my apologies.

Tex

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Kevin White - WR - Mountaineers

NFL Media's Daniel Jeremiah tweeted he already has first round grades on five WR prospects in the 2015 class.

We think we know four of those names: Kevin White, Amari Cooper, DeVante Parker and Dorial Green-Beckham. Prior to the tweet, Jeremiah rattled of a few Devin Smith tweets so he could be No. 5. Jaelen Strong, Devin Funchess and Rashad Greene all have an argument as well.

Source: Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter

Jan 10 - 1:38 PM

 

[Xue]

All I keep hearing is how good Gordon/Gurley are and although I agree this years RB class looks outstanding in the 2nd tier and beyond. My favorites include Jeremy Langford and Javorius Allen. Although they are both 23 (minor knock), they look the part. I don't hear these names as top5 RB's (or barely top10 in some cases I've seen) in this class and am astounded by the depth this class has to offer. Even my top10 right now, I would be pretty happy and relatively confident in them being solid NFL players. Is it really this deep? I am not as impressed when it comes to WR's and see a very large drop off after the top3-4.

Curious to hear some of other peoples "under the radar" RB's as well.

David Cobb, Josh Robinson.

Hey Xue, what do you like about these guys? I haven't seen much of them.

Cobb is a better version of Terrance West. Robinson is very CJ Anderson-ish.

 

[BlackMamba24]

What do people think about WR Justin Hardy ECU? I He seems to be a good route-runner with good hands. I'm interested to see what he does in the Senior Bowl and through the draft process. Think he can sneak into 2nd round of rookie drafts? 3rd round?

 

[EBF]

All I keep hearing is how good Gordon/Gurley are and although I agree this years RB class looks outstanding in the 2nd tier and beyond. My favorites include Jeremy Langford and Javorius Allen. Although they are both 23 (minor knock), they look the part. I don't hear these names as top5 RB's (or barely top10 in some cases I've seen) in this class and am astounded by the depth this class has to offer. Even my top10 right now, I would be pretty happy and relatively confident in them being solid NFL players. Is it really this deep? I am not as impressed when it comes to WR's and see a very large drop off after the top3-4.

Curious to hear some of other peoples "under the radar" RB's as well.

I think maybe you are overrating the class if you believe it's going to produce 10 solid NFL RBs. That is a lot. The 2008 class was a gold mine of RB talent and even that only produced nine 1000+ yard rushers (McFadden, Stewart, Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, Forte, Rice, Charles, Slaton, Forsett). Eight of those guys were top 100 draft picks. The only real "surprise" was Forsett, who only found success in his 7th year in the league. Of those nine 1000+ yard rushers, only five have had multiple 1000+ yard seasons so far. So...the best RB class of the past decade gave us maybe 5-6 truly good backs. And keep in mind that this draft had a whopping FIVE backs picked in the first round. It was unusually heavy on elite talent compared with the typical draft class. This year's class probably has 1-3 potential first round backs.

The gap in talent between college and the NFL is pretty huge. Weaknesses are punished much more severely. So while there are surprises every year, I think it's generally best to err on the side of pessimism with any given prospect. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable projecting Langford and Allen for NFL success. They look pretty ordinary to me compared with the field of NFL backs. I like Cobb more than those two, but a lack of sheer speed and explosiveness may limit his success in the NFL. He's really more of a pure grinder than a dynamic playmaker. Could be a 2nd-3rd round pick. I don't know that he's going to set the league on fire though.

I think this class is deep with guys who could have some utility in the right situation, but if you're talking about players who should be successful regardless of where they land then I think the number is a lot smaller. Maybe 3-4. I trust the NFL scouting process to collectively identify most of the good prospects and take them off the board in the first three rounds. It's unusual for a draft to produce more than one 4th+ rounder who has any real staying power in the league. Usually you "get what you pay for" and if you're mining for gold with late picks then you'll wind up with a lot of iron pyrite.

That being said, I'd roll with Michael Dyer if I had to look outside the first three rounds of the NFL draft for a decent back this year. Assuming that he falls into the late rounds or goes undrafted entirely, he has a good "excuse" because he's over-aged with a checkered injury and character history. On talent alone he's probably a day two guy. Better to roll the dice on a talented headcase than a mediocre boy scout who falls deep in the draft for the simple reason that he's not very talented.

Other than Dyer, I like Kevin Parks from Virginia, but I still think he's probably going to fail in the NFL. The positives are that he runs low to the ground with good power and quickness. He can also catch the ball well. The negatives are that he's slow, he rarely breaks long runs because of this, and his career YPC is dismal. Like Tim Flanders last year, he's a guy who looks the part in a lot of ways, but probably just doesn't quite have the raw athletic materials to be successful. Shave two tenths off his 40 time and/or add 15 pounds to his frame and he would really be something. As it stands, probably just an intriguing UDFA camp body.

 

[Ilov80s]

I know I posted in another thread about my loving Jay Ajayi. What is the general consensus?

 

[Xue]

What do people think about WR Justin Hardy ECU? I He seems to be a good route-runner with good hands. I'm interested to see what he does in the Senior Bowl and through the draft process. Think he can sneak into 2nd round of rookie drafts? 3rd round?

He'll be 24 during his Rookie season. 24-year old rookies project very poorly in the NFL, unless they are some sort of athletic freak and/or had dominant production. Hardy has neither.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Agreed, although John Brown was a 24 year old rookie this year and looked pretty good.

 

[Ilov80s]

Agreed, although John Brown was a 24 year old rookie this year and looked pretty good.

True, but can he ever be more than pretty good?

 

[RoosterScott]

Can we get a top 30 going on this thread? I like the chatter but am more interested to see how they all slot in the top 20/25. I'll start something with the notion someone slots them more accurately

1) Amari Cooper, WR

2) Marcus Mariota QB

3) Jalen Strong WR

4) DeVante Parker, WR

5) Dorial Green-Beckham, WR

6) Devin Funchess, TE/WR

7) Kevin White, WR

8) Todd Gurley, RB

9) Melvin Gordon, RB

10) Jameis Winston, QB

11) Maxx Williams, TE

12) Sammie Coates, WR

13) Ameer Abdulah, RB

14) Ty Montgomery, WR

15) Brett Hundley, QB

16) Tevin Coleman

17) Duke Johnson, RB

18) Jay Ajayi, RB

19) Josh Harper, WR

20) TJ Yeldon, RB

21) Nelson Agholor, WR

22) Clive Walford, TE

23) Justin Hardy, WR

24) Mike Davis, RB

25) Rashard Green, WR

26) Javorious Allen, RB

27) Tyler Lockett, WR

28) Bryce Petty, QB

29) Tony Lippett, WR (played 2 way as a CB as well/sleeper)

30) Nick O'Leary, TE

*This is JUST a start to see how the prospects rank out in the big scheme of things. I know the slotting will change dramatically after the draft but I'd like to see how people view the prospects in the big picture. These rankings are not accurate so please feel free to slot accordingly.

 

[jurb26]

My top 30 skill players right now.

1. Winston, QB FSU

2. Cooper, WR Bama

3. Gurley, RB UGA

4. D. Parker, WR Loiusville

5. Mariota, QB Oregon

6. Gordon, RB Wisconsin

7. K. White, WR WVU

8. J. Strong, WR ASU

9. Green-Beckham, WR OU

10. Coates, WR Auburn

11. Coleman, RB Indiana

12. M. Davis, RB South Carolina

13. Agholar, WR SC

14. D. Johnson, RB Mia

15. Abdullah, RB Nebraska

16. Ajayi, RB BSU

17. Funchess, TE/WR Michigan

18. D. Smith, WR tOSU

19. Grayson, QB CSU

20. Diggs, WR Maryland

21. M. Williams, TE Minn

22. R. Greene, WR FSU

23. Montgomery, WR Stanford

24. Yeldon, RB Bama

25. Hundley, WG UCLA

26. Walford, TE Mia

27. J. Allen, RB SC

28. Q. Davis, WR UNC

29. A. Goodley, WR OSU

30. D. Daniels, WR ND

Of course a lot of this will probably change in the next few months.

 

[Faust]

Am I the only one not overly impressed with Cooper?

Posts 74, 80, 84, and 98 in this thread share some similar observations:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=715809

 

[Faust]

2015 East West Shrine Preview:

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/51538/351/2015-east-west-shrine-preview

 

[Faust]

Ohio State's Urban Meyer: Devin Smith's draft stock is 'soaring'

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456028/article/ohio-states-urban-meyer-devin-smiths-draft-stock-is-soaring

Rotoworld:

Devin Smith - WR - Buckeyes

Ohio State coach Urban Meyer said senior WR Devin Smith's draft stock is "soaring."

We could have told you that. However, the reason Meyer sited for the stock surge is surprising. "He's the best gunner, and the great thing is the Bill Belichicks of the world, NFL coaches, his stock is soaring right now," Meyer said of Smith's role on the Buckeyes' punt-coverage unit. "It's because he catches the ball, but that's No. 2, because he's one of the best gunners in college football." Let's be real: Smith's stock is soaring because he's proved to be an elite home run threat. In 2014, he's posted 32 receptions for 886 yards and 12 touchdowns, averaging 27.7 yards per catch. Obviously being an extremely valuable coverage man will only help the 6-foot-1, 197-pounder's stock.

Source: NFL.com

Jan 10 - 10:12 PM

 

[beto]

For non-PPR

1) Melvin Gordon, RB - Very athletic and has everything you want in a back. The W scheme is excellent but the way he dominates sets him apart

2) Todd Gurley, RB - Similar to Gordon but injury knocks him down, he could drop the most for me depending on where he is drafted

3) Amari Cooper, WR - Atheletic, great hands and rises to the occasion in every game. Reminds me of a young Reggie Wayne

4) Tevin Coleman - seems like a better version of Andre Williams. Very excited to see how he tests and where he lands.

5) DeVante Parker, WR - dominant this season in limited time

6) Dorial Green-Beckham, WR - freak size, liked what I saw of him at Missouri

7) Marcus Mariota QB - pretty sure he is going #1, will drop him if he doesn't

8) Jalen Strong WR - lot of the same traits as Cooper but different body type that reminds me of Jeffery, Evans, etc

9) Kevin White, WR - prototype size. wasn't as dominant as others in this tier but if he goes in the 1st he will stay

10) Jameis Winston, QB

11) Duke Johnson, RB

12) TJ Yeldon, RB

13) Jay Ajayi, RB

14) Vince Mahle WR

15) Devin Funchess, TE/WR

16) Ty Montgomery, WR

17) Ameer Abdulah, RB

18) Maxx Williams, TE

19) Nelson Agholor, WR

20) Devin Smith, WR

21) Sammie Coates, WR

22) Brett Hundley, QB

23) Cam Artis-Payne, RB

24) Justin Hardy, WR

25) Mike Davis, RB

26) Rashard Green, WR

27) Javorious Allen, RB

28) Jeremy Langford RB

29) Bryce Petty, QB

30) Tony Lippett, WR

 

[Zyphros]

Right now I just have a top10, here you go: Based on all my leagues which are 2QB .5 PPR

Todd Gurley

Melvin Gordon

Marcus Mariotta

Amari Cooper

Jameis Winston

Kevin White

Davante Parker

TJ Yeldon

Tevin Coleman

Ameer Abdullah

I feel pretty comfortable with this right now, but the combine, draft day, and landing spot will likely change the order, but I doubt it will change my top10 very much.

 

[maf005]

standard 1,2,3,1,1 1ppr

This probably covers the top 15-20 but this is generally how I think about it

Any rb drafted in round 1

Gurley (assuming he doesn't fall to the 3rd or later)

Any wr drafted in the top 10 overall

Any wr drafted in the first round

Any rb drafted in the 2nd round

Any wr taken in 2nd round or 3rd round with great situations

Any rb taken in the 3rd or 4th round with great situations (behind 29 year old+ starter or no clear starter etc)

Any TE taken in the 1st round

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Draft: Senior prospects leading Ohio State's run

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Draft: Oregon much more than just Mariota to scouts

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

NFL.com's Bucky Brooks wrote that Ohio State senior WR Devin Smith "excels at blowing past defenders on vertical routes, yet is also capable of turning short passes into big gains with his explosive running skills."

The analyst passed along that Smith leads Power 5 receivers in receptions (16) and touchdowns (10) on passes 20 yards or longer downfield. Smith will be a handful for Oregon CBs Chris Seisay and Troy Hill to corral on Monday. "Given his impact on the Buckeyes' passing game, the Ducks' cornerbacks must find a way to keep Smith with tight coverage on the perimeter," Brooks wrote. "Without the services of Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, the Ducks will lean on Hill and Seisay to take turns locking up Smith in coverage. Whether it's in man or zone, the Ducks' cornerback tandem must keep the ball and Smith in front of the defense to keep the Buckeyes from lighting up the scoreboard." Smith has posted 32 receptions for 886 yards and 12 touchdowns this season, averaging 27.7 yards per catch.

Source: NFL.com
Jan 11 - 11:04 PM

 

[CalBear]

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/How-former-Cal-football-coach-Rob-Likens-ended-up-5997516.php

Cal wide receiver Chris Harper announced Tuesday that he will forgo his senior year in Berkeley and enter the NFL draft.

Harper has been one of Cal’s top receiving options since his freshman year in 2012.

“After having many talks with family, mentors and coaches, I have decided that declaring for the NFL draft was best for me at this time,” Harper said in a statement released through the school.

Harper caught 52 passes for 634 yards and six touchdowns for the Bears in 2014. His peak numbers came during his sophomore season, when he caught 70 passes for 852 yards and five touchdowns.


The 5-foot-11 native of Northridge (Los Angeles County) was one of Cal’s primary deep threats. He had a career-longest touchdown catch of 89 yards in 2013.

I can only imagine this is a "I'm gonna get benched for academics" move. He's got some speed and elusiveness, runs pretty good routes, but I don't think he'll wind up standing out in the draft process, even if he gets a combine invite. PR/KR draft pick, middle rounds most likely.

 

[EBF]

Am I the only one not overly impressed with Cooper?

Worried about this WR class in general. I have the 1.01 pick in one league and the 1.02 pick in another. I'd love nothing more than to get an elite WR, but is there anyone in this class you can point to as a lock prospect? Cooper/Parker/Funchess/DGB/White all seem to have at least one or two things you can nitpick. I'm sure a couple of those guys will end up being solid, but the trust factor isn't there for me yet. The combine should help clear things up. Not only because of the tangible measurements, but also by offering a level playing field and good camera angles to evaluate movement. That's one area where some of the eventual successes like Hopkins and Beckham really stood out in previous years.

 

[ZWK]

All I keep hearing is how good Gordon/Gurley are and although I agree this years RB class looks outstanding in the 2nd tier and beyond. My favorites include Jeremy Langford and Javorius Allen. Although they are both 23 (minor knock), they look the part. I don't hear these names as top5 RB's (or barely top10 in some cases I've seen) in this class and am astounded by the depth this class has to offer. Even my top10 right now, I would be pretty happy and relatively confident in them being solid NFL players. Is it really this deep? I am not as impressed when it comes to WR's and see a very large drop off after the top3-4.

Curious to hear some of other peoples "under the radar" RB's as well.

David Cobb, Josh Robinson.

+1 on Robinson & Cobb (although I'm worried that Cobb might be too slow).

Not a fan of Allen. Looks pretty ordinary to me.

 

[EBF]

Can we get a top 30 going on this thread?

Here's a tiered list based on where DraftScout projects them to go:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOLID FIRST ROUNDERS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QB Marcus Mariota, Oregon

QB Jameis Winston, Florida State

RB Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin

WR Amari Cooper, Alabama

WR Dorial Green-Beckham, Oklahoma

WR DeVante Parker, Louisville

WR Kevin White, West Virginia

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FIRST/SECOND ROUND FRINGE

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB Todd Gurley, Georgia

WR Sammie Coates, Auburn

WR Devin Funchess, Michigan

WR Jaelen Strong, Arizona State

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SECOND-THIRD ROUNDERS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska

RB Jay Ajayi, Boise State

RB Cameron Artis-Payne, Auburn

RB Javorius Allen, USC

RB Tevin Coleman, Indiana

RB Mike Davis, South Carolina

RB Duke Johnson, Miami

RB TJ Yeldon, Alabama

WR Nelson Agholor, USC

WR Josh Harper, Fresno State

WR Rashad Greene, Florida State

WR Tony Lippett, Michigan State

WR Tyler Lockett, Kansas State

WR Vince Mayle, Washington State

WR Ty Montgomery, Stanford

TE Ben Koyack, Notre Dame

TE Nick O'Leary, Florida State

TE Clive Walford, Miami

TE Maxx Williams, Minnesota

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIRD ROUND FRINGE-FOURTH ROUNDERS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB David Cobb, Minnesota

RB Jeremy Langford, Michigan State

WR Dres Anderson, Utah

WR Stefon Diggs, Maryland

WR Phillip Dorsett, Miami

WR Deontay Greenberry, Houston

WR Austin Hill, Arizona

WR Devin Smith, Ohio State

TE Jesse James, Penn State

TE Tyler Kroft, Rutgers

That's a good starting point. I would apply a -2 tier bump for the QBs due to the low positional value in FF and my own lack of excitement for those players. I would apply a +1 tier adjustment to anyone I like above average, no tier adjustment to anyone I'm lukewarm on, and a -1 tier adjustment to anyone I strongly dislike. That gives something like...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin

RB Todd Gurley, Georgia

WR Amari Cooper, Alabama

WR Dorial Green-Beckham, Oklahoma

WR DeVante Parker, Louisville

WR Kevin White, West Virginia

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska

WR Sammie Coates, Auburn

WR Devin Funchess, Michigan

WR Ty Montgomery, Stanford

WR Jaelen Strong, Arizona State

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QB Marcus Mariota, Oregon

QB Jameis Winston, Florida State

RB Jay Ajayi, Boise State

RB Cameron Artis-Payne, Auburn

RB David Cobb, Minnesota

RB Tevin Coleman, Indiana

RB Mike Davis, South Carolina

RB Duke Johnson, Miami

RB TJ Yeldon, Alabama

WR Stefon Diggs, Maryland

WR Vince Mayle, Washington State

WR Devin Smith, Ohio State

TE Ben Koyack, Notre Dame

TE Maxx Williams, Minnesota

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB Javorius Allen, USC

RB Jeremy Langford, Michigan State

WR Nelson Agholor, USC

WR Dres Anderson, Utah

WR Phillip Dorsett, Miami

WR Deontay Greenberry, Houston

WR Rashad Greene, Florida State

WR Josh Harper, Fresno State

WR Austin Hill, Arizona

WR Tony Lippett, Michigan State

WR Tyler Lockett, Kansas State

TE Jesse James, Penn State

TE Tyler Kroft, Rutgers

TE Nick O'Leary, Florida State

TE Clive Walford, Miami

Wild cards with actual potential:

RB Michael Dyer, Louisville

RB Trey Williams Texas A&M

WR Tyreek Hill, Oklahoma State

That doesn't look too far off to me. I could probably be convinced to fold the second tier into the third tier. That area might need more refinement, but generally I think this is a pretty good start. I neglected to add QBs outside of Winston and Mariota because any non first round pick is likely to fall deep and those two look like the only sure bets.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Am I the only one not overly impressed with Cooper?

Worried about this WR class in general. I have the 1.01 pick in one league and the 1.02 pick in another. I'd love nothing more than to get an elite WR, but is there anyone in this class you can point to as a lock prospect? Cooper/Parker/Funchess/DGB/White all seem to have at least one or two things you can nitpick. I'm sure a couple of those guys will end up being solid, but the trust factor isn't there for me yet. The combine should help clear things up. Not only because of the tangible measurements, but also by offering a level playing field and good camera angles to evaluate movement. That's one area where some of the eventual successes like Hopkins and Beckham really stood out in previous years.

If Cooper, Parker, and DGB don't let you rest easy then the only thing you're looking for that will comfort you is a Calvin Johnson type prospect. Those guys come once in a generation. I think you're overanalyzing things and looking for reasons to talk them down.

 

[LususV]

Am I the only one not overly impressed with Cooper?

Worried about this WR class in general. I have the 1.01 pick in one league and the 1.02 pick in another. I'd love nothing more than to get an elite WR, but is there anyone in this class you can point to as a lock prospect? Cooper/Parker/Funchess/DGB/White all seem to have at least one or two things you can nitpick. I'm sure a couple of those guys will end up being solid, but the trust factor isn't there for me yet. The combine should help clear things up. Not only because of the tangible measurements, but also by offering a level playing field and good camera angles to evaluate movement. That's one area where some of the eventual successes like Hopkins and Beckham really stood out in previous years.

Unless word comes out that his injury is worse than a standard ACL tear, I'm taking Gurley and not thinking twice about it. Otherwise, if I have a top 4 pick in this class, I try to deal it for an NFL WR on the rise (Nuk Hopkins types).

 

[IHEARTFF]

Early indications are the top 6 WR are

Cooper

Parker

DGB

Funchess

White

Strong

in some order, probably that one above. Certainly going to be impossible to top the 2014 class, but that is a good group. I'm feeling a trade down to grab 2 of them is the way to handle the 1.1 or 1.2, but I could be persuaded otherwise.

 

[Concept Coop]

Cooper/Parker/Funchess/DGB/White all seem to have at least one or two things you can nitpick.

What would you point to in reference to Cooper and Parker?

I was never completely sold on Cooper until this season, but he's answered those questions for me. He's more of a physical specimen than his frame would typically suggest, IMO, much like Beckham Jr. He's an absolute terror out of his breaks and has deceptive homerun speed; he consistently ran away from SEC backfields. He's strong in route and after and plays the ball in the air very well. I personally don't see much to nitpik. Other than, of course, it would be great if he was 6'4" 230. I was shocked by how well he played against Hargraeves III (Yes, I watched the game and know Florida played zone on most of the big gains). He still was able to consistently present himself as a quality target against an elite man-to-man prospect. He's not going to line up against many corners as talented as VH3, even at the next level.

I'm in your shoes (1.01 in two leagues) and will likely go RB, due to the state of the two positions (WR very rich; RB very weak), but I would be just fine taking Cooper and expecting WR1 production from him after a season or two.

Parker seems pretty complete to me as well, though I haven't watched him as much.

 

[maf005]

The biggest knock against Cooper is that he doesn't have a Julio or AFG body/athleticism profile. He's not a "minus" at anything though

I don't see how we can evaluate DGB given that he has no tape other than him catching jump balls in the end zone

 

[Concept Coop]

The biggest knock against Cooper is that he doesn't have a Julio or AFG body/athleticism profile.

I agree, that's the biggest knock that people seem to have. But it's worth pointing out that not being a physically imposing WR is less of a glass ceiling than it's ever been--and it's still trending. In today's NFL, if you can get open, the rules and schemes will allow you to put up big numbers. We're going to miss out on a lot of Browns, Beckhams, and Hiltons if we don't adjust our criteria to account for said changes.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I guess I think its a pretty strong class at the top, and has better than 2013 depth.

-I believe Cooper is very close to a Sammy Watkins level prospect. Given the situation the Watkins fell into, I'd probably even trade Watkins for Cooper today. Pretty small chance Cooper falls into such a bad situation.

-I think Gurley is the best RB prospect that we've had in years. The knee injury adds a touch more risk, but it just may provide a window to get him at a small discount. Excellent chance to be a top 5 dynasty RB a year from today.

-I don't think Gordon is on the same level as Gurley, but boy is he good. Given the status of the dynasty RBs, I think top 5-10 a year from today is very likely.

I think there is a clear drop after these top 3 guys.

IMO the next two guys are in a tier of their own as well. Parker and White. Obviously very different styles of WRs, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if both were very successful right out of the box. Both have shown ways they can win that should translate well.

I have a tier break after those two because IMO the questions become bigger after them. DGB has the tools, but obviously red flags. Is Funchess a TE or WR? What will Strong run at the combine? Coleman and Yeldon are kind of upright runners. Abdullah is smallish.

 

[doowain]

Am I the only one not overly impressed with Cooper?

I'm not sure where I saw the following point but it's a point I agree with. Cooper is a lot like AJ Green in the sense that he makes playing WR look so easy and natural that you come away "unimpressed" at times. He's so good that, outside of the WOW plays, it can be boring.

Now I'm not putting Cooper on AJG's level but I definitely see some truth to that. As with Green, don't overthink on Cooper. He's rated that high and has that production because he IS that good.

 

[EBF]

Am I the only one not overly impressed with Cooper?

Worried about this WR class in general. I have the 1.01 pick in one league and the 1.02 pick in another. I'd love nothing more than to get an elite WR, but is there anyone in this class you can point to as a lock prospect? Cooper/Parker/Funchess/DGB/White all seem to have at least one or two things you can nitpick. I'm sure a couple of those guys will end up being solid, but the trust factor isn't there for me yet. The combine should help clear things up. Not only because of the tangible measurements, but also by offering a level playing field and good camera angles to evaluate movement. That's one area where some of the eventual successes like Hopkins and Beckham really stood out in previous years.

If Cooper, Parker, and DGB don't let you rest easy then the only thing you're looking for that will comfort you is a Calvin Johnson type prospect. Those guys come once in a generation. I think you're overanalyzing things and looking for reasons to talk them down.

You are confident that DGB will be a success in the NFL? A guy who never had a 1000+ yard season in college and couldn't stay out of trouble at Missouri? There is a lot of upside there, but he's a boom-or-bust prospect. Hardly a safe pick.

Parker was a four year collegiate who only really began to dominate as a senior. Good height. Strong hands. Not sure he really does any one thing at an elite level though. His speed might only be average and (despite a few big plays) he's not really a great YAC guy from what I've seen. He also doesn't seem that bulky for his height. I like him, but don't consider him a lock. I would say he's more of a late 1st rounder than a top 10 type of talent, but that remains to be seen.

I would lean towards Cooper as the top WR. I think his production was really impressive in a great conference. He also seems to have good speed. However, he's not a huge target or someone who's going to win with size alone. He does not compare with the likes of Dez, Andre, and Demaryius physically, and seems more like a rich man's version of Torrey Smith or Pierre Garcon. That's not a bad thing to have, but when you compare him to the kind of WRs who have gone in the top 5-10 of the draft in recent years, I think he is below average.

 

[EBF]

Am I the only one not overly impressed with Cooper?

Worried about this WR class in general. I have the 1.01 pick in one league and the 1.02 pick in another. I'd love nothing more than to get an elite WR, but is there anyone in this class you can point to as a lock prospect? Cooper/Parker/Funchess/DGB/White all seem to have at least one or two things you can nitpick. I'm sure a couple of those guys will end up being solid, but the trust factor isn't there for me yet. The combine should help clear things up. Not only because of the tangible measurements, but also by offering a level playing field and good camera angles to evaluate movement. That's one area where some of the eventual successes like Hopkins and Beckham really stood out in previous years.

What are your thoughts on Cooper vs. White?

People say White is like Larry Fitz, but from my perspective that's just the # and the haircut. He isn't as big as Fitzgerald. Doesn't have the same strength in his base. I do think he runs really good routes and has nice quickness. This might be an odd comparison, but he actually reminds me a lot of Cecil Shorts. Taller and doesn't seem to have the same issues with drops, but similar movement and route running. I think he has a good chance to be a solid starter. I don't see him as that "wow" type of guy who warrants a high first round pick.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The biggest knock against Cooper is that he doesn't have a Julio or AFG body/athleticism profile.

I agree, that's the biggest knock that people seem to have. But it's worth pointing out that not being a physically imposing WR is less of a glass ceiling than it's ever been--and it's still trending. In today's NFL, if you can get open, the rules and schemes will allow you to put up big numbers. We're going to miss out on a lot of Browns, Beckhams, and Hiltons if we don't adjust our criteria to account for said changes.

It's never been a glass ceiling. We just went through a period of a couple of years where the top tier of dynasty WRs was briefly made up of all big, fast guys so many people misinterpreted that to mean that you had to be big and fast to be a tier 1 WR.

See the Sammy Watkins thread this offseason, where it was basically argued that it was impossible to be an elite dynasty WR unless you were 6'2" or above. There were plenty of people that saw through it.

 

[Concept Coop]

It's never been a glass ceiling. We just went through a period of a couple of years where the top tier of dynasty WRs was briefly made up of all big, fast guys so many people misinterpreted that to mean that you had to be big and fast to be a tier 1 WR.

See the Sammy Watkins thread this offseason, where it was basically argued that it was impossible to be an elite dynasty WR unless you were 6'2" or above. There were plenty of people that saw through it.

I think it absolutely was at one point. When that changed--I think we could debate. But the NFL is being decided in space more than it ever has been. Defenses used to be able to bully eligbiles much more than they can get away with today. Schemes are still adjusting to take advantage of that, which is a major part of it as well. Just look the slot utilization today compared to even 5-7 years ago.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It's never been a glass ceiling. We just went through a period of a couple of years where the top tier of dynasty WRs was briefly made up of all big, fast guys so many people misinterpreted that to mean that you had to be big and fast to be a tier 1 WR.

See the Sammy Watkins thread this offseason, where it was basically argued that it was impossible to be an elite dynasty WR unless you were 6'2" or above. There were plenty of people that saw through it.

I think it absolutely was at one point. When that changed--I think we could debate. But the NFL is being decided in space more than it ever has been. Defenses used to be able to bully eligbiles much more than they can get away with today. Schemes are still adjusting to take advantage of that, which is a major part of it as well. Just look the slot utilization today compared to even 5-7 years ago.

No way to prove it, but I absolutely think this is true. Guys like Antonio Brown would have had a hard time being downfield #1s 10-15 years ago IMO.

 

[Spookytooth]

Top four wrs seems pretty clear including dgb. I think coleman will solidify himself as the 3rd rb before long.

 

[EBF]

I'm not sure the game has changed all that much. It has always been possible to win with speed and quickness. Guys like Steve Smith and Percy Harvin have put up top 10 ppg seasons before this new wave of smurfish WRs came along. If you look at Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham, neither guy is very big, but they're both super athletic. That is one route to success, and it's not a new one. Beckham for me is just Lee Evans on steroids with better quickness and agility. Lee Evans was reasonably successful 10+ years ago. It's nothing new to see a smaller, faster guy thrive.

Apart from that, I think what's helping guys like Cobb, Sanders, and Hilton is their QB situation. Cobb and Hilton are pretty talented in their own right, but they both benefit by having HoF caliber QB play. That seems to be a huge factor in WR production. Look at Sanders. He's almost completely a creation of his circumstance. Any WR prospect who lands with a Rodgers/Luck level QB should get a hefty upgrade because those passers are so much more likely to turn a marginal NFL talent into a FF scoring machine. Until you know where a player lands, you can't assume that he's going to benefit from this though.

There are lots of good small WRs in FF, but size still matters. Look at the guys who have had sustained dominance in the NFL and there's a pretty clear pattern there: Boldin, Fitzgerald, Marshall, Calvin, Andre, VJax, Dez, Demaryius, Julio, etc. Mike Evans, Sammy Watkins, and Kelvin Benjamin made an instant splash this year as well.

I don't think a WR has to be a 6'3" 230 to be a #1, but he probably has to have some kind of athletic advantage to consistently win. Cooks isn't a big guy, but he's just faster with better acceleration than everybody on the field. That's his trump card. Beckham is relatively short, but he's also quite fast, he's quicker/smoother than just about everybody, and he frequently wins jump balls that a 5'11" WR probably shouldn't be able to. His height is still a negative. You have to be a flawless athlete to compensate for the small frame. He just happens to be exactly that (unlike, say...Mike Evans or Kelvin Benjamin, who don't move very well, but are simply too big to stop in a lot of situations).

As far as this year's guys go, it's not that they all need to be 6'4", but rather that they need to have some kind of special trait to dominate. I think if you weigh Cooper/White/Parker against the NFL's best, they might surrender a bit of physical talent on average. Of course, it's a bit premature to say that until we have some concrete tangibles from the combine. Everything now involves a bit of guesswork.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

It's never been a glass ceiling. We just went through a period of a couple of years where the top tier of dynasty WRs was briefly made up of all big, fast guys so many people misinterpreted that to mean that you had to be big and fast to be a tier 1 WR.

See the Sammy Watkins thread this offseason, where it was basically argued that it was impossible to be an elite dynasty WR unless you were 6'2" or above. There were plenty of people that saw through it.

I think it absolutely was at one point. When that changed--I think we could debate. But the NFL is being decided in space more than it ever has been. Defenses used to be able to bully eligbiles much more than they can get away with today. Schemes are still adjusting to take advantage of that, which is a major part of it as well. Just look the slot utilization today compared to even 5-7 years ago.

No way to prove it, but I absolutely think this is true. Guys like Antonio Brown would have had a hard time being downfield #1s 10-15 years ago IMO.

I don't know, some top WRs from that era (10-15 years ago):

Jimmy Smith - 6'1", 213

Marvin Harrison, 6', 175

Troy Brown 5'10", 196

Hines Ward 6', 205

Kevin Johnson 5'11", 195

Tory Holt 6', 190

Joe Horn 6'1", 206

Derek Mason 5'10", 190

 

[EBF]

It's never been a glass ceiling. We just went through a period of a couple of years where the top tier of dynasty WRs was briefly made up of all big, fast guys so many people misinterpreted that to mean that you had to be big and fast to be a tier 1 WR.

See the Sammy Watkins thread this offseason, where it was basically argued that it was impossible to be an elite dynasty WR unless you were 6'2" or above. There were plenty of people that saw through it.

I think it absolutely was at one point. When that changed--I think we could debate. But the NFL is being decided in space more than it ever has been. Defenses used to be able to bully eligbiles much more than they can get away with today. Schemes are still adjusting to take advantage of that, which is a major part of it as well. Just look the slot utilization today compared to even 5-7 years ago.

No way to prove it, but I absolutely think this is true. Guys like Antonio Brown would have had a hard time being downfield #1s 10-15 years ago IMO.

I don't know, some top WRs from that era (10-15 years ago):

Jimmy Smith - 6'1", 213

Marvin Harrison, 6', 175

Troy Brown 5'10", 196

Hines Ward 6', 205

Kevin Johnson 5'11", 195

Tory Holt 6', 190

Joe Horn 6'1", 206

Isaac Bruce too. He was not a slot playmaker type like Harvin or Cobb. He would just line up out wide and burn people downfield all day.

 

[Spike]

I'm not sure the game has changed all that much. It has always been possible to win with speed and quickness. Guys like Steve Smith and Percy Harvin have put up top 10 ppg seasons before this new wave of smurfish WRs came along. If you look at Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham, neither guy is very big, but they're both super athletic. That is one route to success, and it's not a new one. Beckham for me is just Lee Evans on steroids with better quickness and agility. Lee Evans was reasonably successful 10+ years ago. It's nothing new to see a smaller, faster guy thrive.

Apart from that, I think what's helping guys like Cobb, Sanders, and Hilton is their QB situation. Cobb and Hilton are pretty talented in their own right, but they both benefit by having HoF caliber QB play. That seems to be a huge factor in WR production. Look at Sanders. He's almost completely a creation of his circumstance. Any WR prospect who lands with a Rodgers/Luck level QB should get a hefty upgrade because those passers are so much more likely to turn a marginal NFL talent into a FF scoring machine. Until you know where a player lands, you can't assume that he's going to benefit from this though.

There are lots of good small WRs in FF, but size still matters. Look at the guys who have had sustained dominance in the NFL and there's a pretty clear pattern there: Boldin, Fitzgerald, Marshall, Calvin, Andre, VJax, Dez, Demaryius, Julio, etc. Mike Evans, Sammy Watkins, and Kelvin Benjamin made an instant splash this year as well.

I don't think a WR has to be a 6'3" 230 to be a #1, but he probably has to have some kind of athletic advantage to consistently win. Cooks isn't a big guy, but he's just faster with better acceleration than everybody on the field. That's his trump card. Beckham is relatively short, but he's also quite fast, he's quicker/smoother than just about everybody, and he frequently wins jump balls that a 5'11" WR probably shouldn't be able to. His height is still a negative. You have to be a flawless athlete to compensate for the small frame. He just happens to be exactly that (unlike, say...Mike Evans or Kelvin Benjamin, who don't move very well, but are simply too big to stop in a lot of situations).

As far as this year's guys go, it's not that they all need to be 6'4", but rather that they need to have some kind of special trait to dominate. I think if you weigh Cooper/White/Parker against the NFL's best, they might surrender a bit of physical talent on average. Of course, it's a bit premature to say that until we have some concrete tangibles from the combine. Everything now involves a bit of guesswork.

It's this part that really needs to be looked at, and discussed, in detail. Too many times (Sammy Watkins being a perfect recent example) where we see someone who could be elite just not get it done due to bad (or mediocre) QB play. It really can mean the difference between a top-5/10 player at the position and producing at a 15-20 level.

I have seen a goodly percentage of people in these threads saying to the effect of, "Talent over situation - every time!". Well, I give you Sammy Watkins vs Odell Beckham Jr.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It's never been a glass ceiling. We just went through a period of a couple of years where the top tier of dynasty WRs was briefly made up of all big, fast guys so many people misinterpreted that to mean that you had to be big and fast to be a tier 1 WR.

See the Sammy Watkins thread this offseason, where it was basically argued that it was impossible to be an elite dynasty WR unless you were 6'2" or above. There were plenty of people that saw through it.

I think it absolutely was at one point. When that changed--I think we could debate. But the NFL is being decided in space more than it ever has been. Defenses used to be able to bully eligbiles much more than they can get away with today. Schemes are still adjusting to take advantage of that, which is a major part of it as well. Just look the slot utilization today compared to even 5-7 years ago.

No way to prove it, but I absolutely think this is true. Guys like Antonio Brown would have had a hard time being downfield #1s 10-15 years ago IMO.

10 years ago, like when the 5'9" 195lb Steve Smith was the consensus #1 dynasty WR coming off a 1600/13 season? The same 10 years ago where 3 of the top 5 dynasty WRs were under 6 feet tall and under 200lbs (Smith, Harrison, Holt)?

 

[Concept Coop]

I have seen a goodly percentage of people in these threads saying to the effect of, "Talent over situation - every time!". Well, I give you Sammy Watkins vs Odell Beckham Jr.

Who takes the Sammy side of the talent argument today? Not me.

 

[Spike]

I have seen a goodly percentage of people in these threads saying to the effect of, "Talent over situation - every time!". Well, I give you Sammy Watkins vs Odell Beckham Jr.

Who takes the Sammy side of the talent argument today? Not me.

How about when we were all doing our rookie drafts?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It's never been a glass ceiling. We just went through a period of a couple of years where the top tier of dynasty WRs was briefly made up of all big, fast guys so many people misinterpreted that to mean that you had to be big and fast to be a tier 1 WR.

See the Sammy Watkins thread this offseason, where it was basically argued that it was impossible to be an elite dynasty WR unless you were 6'2" or above. There were plenty of people that saw through it.

I think it absolutely was at one point. When that changed--I think we could debate. But the NFL is being decided in space more than it ever has been. Defenses used to be able to bully eligbiles much more than they can get away with today. Schemes are still adjusting to take advantage of that, which is a major part of it as well. Just look the slot utilization today compared to even 5-7 years ago.

No way to prove it, but I absolutely think this is true. Guys like Antonio Brown would have had a hard time being downfield #1s 10-15 years ago IMO.

10 years ago, like when the 5'9" 195lb Steve Smith was the consensus #1 dynasty WR coming off a 1600/13 season? The same 10 years ago where 3 of the top 5 dynasty WRs were under 6 feet tall and under 200lbs (Smith, Harrison, Holt)?

Which is why I careful to pick a guy who was not only 5'10, 186 but also slow and one of the least athletic WRs in the NFL.

Chad Johnson is probably the best comp overall, but at 2" taller he was still built differently.

But, sure. If you consider 213 pounds the same as 186 and/or want to consider 4.38 the same as 4.56 then yeah Brown is nothing new.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I have seen a goodly percentage of people in these threads saying to the effect of, "Talent over situation - every time!". Well, I give you Sammy Watkins vs Odell Beckham Jr.

Who takes the Sammy side of the talent argument today? Not me.

...and was anyone thinking Beckham's situation was all that great?

 

[Concept Coop]

10 years ago, like when the 5'9" 195lb Steve Smith was the consensus #1 dynasty WR coming off a 1600/13 season? The same 10 years ago where 3 of the top 5 dynasty WRs were under 6 feet tall and under 200lbs (Smith, Harrison, Holt)?

Larry was the #1 dynasty WR following the 2005 season (and Smith is a freak). Holt wasn't small. Harrison was certainly a beast despite his size.

There have certainly been smaller WRs who found success in the NFL. I just don't think they compare, in number, to those doing it today. Brown, Sanders, Hilton, Maclin, Beckham, Cobb, and Jackson all finished top 13 in yards. That's more than half. Of course they would be impacted more by the rule changes than those better able to physcially deal with additional contact.