[Dynasty] 2015 Draft Prospects (2 Viewers)

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Shouldn't have used Harrison as an example since he's pre 1999. Do you have an older source for this stuff.

 

[Concept Coop]

I have seen a goodly percentage of people in these threads saying to the effect of, "Talent over situation - every time!". Well, I give you Sammy Watkins vs Odell Beckham Jr.

Who takes the Sammy side of the talent argument today? Not me.

How about when we were all doing our rookie drafts?

I think we were all wrong on that front. I think the situation argument would be Benjamin vs. Sammy, perhaps?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Shouldn't have used Harrison as an example since he's pre 1999. Do you have an older source for this stuff.

10 years ago he was a consensus top 5 WR. That's where I got the names. I went back 10 years and looked at the top 5 dynasty WRs.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

10 years ago, like when the 5'9" 195lb Steve Smith was the consensus #1 dynasty WR coming off a 1600/13 season? The same 10 years ago where 3 of the top 5 dynasty WRs were under 6 feet tall and under 200lbs (Smith, Harrison, Holt)?

Larry was the #1 dynasty WR following the 2005 season (and Smith is a freak). Holt wasn't small. Harrison was certainly a beast despite his size.

There have certainly been smaller WRs who found success in the NFL. I just don't think they compare, in number, to those doing it today. Brown, Sanders, Hilton, Maclin, Beckham, Cobb, and Jackson all finished top 13 in yards. That's more than half. Of course they would be impacted more by the rule changes than those better able to physcially deal with additional contact.

Holt was 6', 190 - that's pretty small in the context we're discussing here.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

It's never been a glass ceiling. We just went through a period of a couple of years where the top tier of dynasty WRs was briefly made up of all big, fast guys so many people misinterpreted that to mean that you had to be big and fast to be a tier 1 WR. See the Sammy Watkins thread this offseason, where it was basically argued that it was impossible to be an elite dynasty WR unless you were 6'2" or above. There were plenty of people that saw through it.

I think it absolutely was at one point. When that changed--I think we could debate. But the NFL is being decided in space more than it ever has been. Defenses used to be able to bully eligbiles much more than they can get away with today. Schemes are still adjusting to take advantage of that, which is a major part of it as well. Just look the slot utilization today compared to even 5-7 years ago.

No way to prove it, but I absolutely think this is true. Guys like Antonio Brown would have had a hard time being downfield #1s 10-15 years ago IMO.

10 years ago, like when the 5'9" 195lb Steve Smith was the consensus #1 dynasty WR coming off a 1600/13 season? The same 10 years ago where 3 of the top 5 dynasty WRs were under 6 feet tall and under 200lbs (Smith, Harrison, Holt)?

Which is why I careful to pick a guy who was not only 5'10, 186 but also slow and one of the least athletic WRs in the NFL.Chad Johnson is probably the best comp overall, but at 2" taller he was still built differently.But, sure. If you consider 213 pounds the same as 186 and/or want to consider 4.38 the same as 4.56 then yeah Brown is nothing new.

I think it's pretty clear watching Brown that those numbers don't represent his actual speed/athleticism. One of the least athletic WR's in the NFL? Slow? Do you watch many Steelers games? Sometimes the combine numbers just lie, or come about because a guy has horrible technique, etc.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

10 years ago, like when the 5'9" 195lb Steve Smith was the consensus #1 dynasty WR coming off a 1600/13 season? The same 10 years ago where 3 of the top 5 dynasty WRs were under 6 feet tall and under 200lbs (Smith, Harrison, Holt)?

Larry was the #1 dynasty WR following the 2005 season (and Smith is a freak). Holt wasn't small. Harrison was certainly a beast despite his size.

There have certainly been smaller WRs who found success in the NFL. I just don't think they compare, in number, to those doing it today. Brown, Sanders, Hilton, Maclin, Beckham, Cobb, and Jackson all finished top 13 in yards. That's more than half. Of course they would be impacted more by the rule changes than those better able to physcially deal with additional contact.

10 years ago...

Steve Smith

Santana Moss

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Anquan Boldin

Torry Holt

Joey Galloway

Donald Driver

Plaxico Burress

Marvin Harrison

Terry Glenn

Chris Chambers

Rod Smith

8 of the top 13.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

There have certainly been smaller WRs who found success in the NFL. I just don't think they compare, in number, to those doing it today. Brown, Sanders, Hilton, Maclin, Beckham, Cobb, and Jackson all finished top 13 in yards. That's more than half. Of course they would be impacted more by the rule changes than those better able to physcially deal with additional contact.

Top 15 WRs (yards) in 2001

1. David Boston

2. Marvin Harrison

3. Terrell Owens

4. Jimmy Smith

5. Torry Holt

6. Rod Smith

7. Keyshawn Johnson

8. Joe Horn

9. Randy Moss

10. Troy Brown

11. Tim Brown

12. Johnnie Morton

13. Jerry Rice

14. Derrick Mason

15. Curtis Conway

All of the bolded would be considered "small". All are 6'1" or under - most are under 200 pounds.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

most are under 2000 pounds.

 

[jurb26]

most are under 2000 pounds.

Imagine what a ton would do for the BMI.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

most are under 2000 pounds.

well, they do work out.

 

[Concept Coop]

10 years ago...
Steve Smith

Santana Moss

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Anquan Boldin

Torry Holt

Joey Galloway

Donald Driver

Plaxico Burress

Marvin Harrison

Terry Glenn

Chris Chambers

Rod Smith

8 of the top 13.

Top 15, under 6 feet tall:

2014:

Brown,

Sanders,

Hilton,

Beckham,

Tate,

Cobb,

Jackson

2004:

Mason

 

[Concept Coop]

Under 6:

2001:

14. Derrick Mason

2014:

Brown,

Sanders,

Hilton,

Beckham,

Tate,
Cobb,

Jackson

 

[FreeBaGeL]

10 years ago, like when the 5'9" 195lb Steve Smith was the consensus #1 dynasty WR coming off a 1600/13 season? The same 10 years ago where 3 of the top 5 dynasty WRs were under 6 feet tall and under 200lbs (Smith, Harrison, Holt)?

Larry was the #1 dynasty WR following the 2005 season (and Smith is a freak). Holt wasn't small. Harrison was certainly a beast despite his size.

There have certainly been smaller WRs who found success in the NFL. I just don't think they compare, in number, to those doing it today. Brown, Sanders, Hilton, Maclin, Beckham, Cobb, and Jackson all finished top 13 in yards. That's more than half. Of course they would be impacted more by the rule changes than those better able to physcially deal with additional contact.

10 years ago...

Steve Smith

Santana Moss

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Anquan Boldin

Torry Holt

Joey Galloway

Donald Driver

Plaxico Burress

Marvin Harrison

Terry Glenn

Chris Chambers

Rod Smith

8 of the top 13.

Top 15, under 6 feet tall:

2014:

Brown,

Sanders,

Hilton,

Beckham,

Tate,

Cobb,

Jackson

2004:

Mason

2005:

Steve Smith

Santana Moss

Joey Galloway

Marvin Harrison

Terry Glenn

Chris Chambers

Derrick Mason

2003:

Derrick Mason

Marvin Harrison

Laveranues Coles

Steve Smith

Santana Moss



It's not even like 2004 was some big outlier either, it's just that a bunch of the guys happened to be exactly 6'0" that year (which was in your range before). That's not to mention that this conversation started around Amari Cooper who was 6'1" 210lbs. In the time frames we're talking about a typical year had about 12 of the top 15 that were under that size.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Under 6:

2001:

14. Derrick Mason

2014:

Brown,

Sanders,

Hilton,

Beckham,

Tate,

Cobb,

Jackson

Troy Brown was 5'10" - and this conversation really started about Cooper "only" being 6'1". Is there really any difference between 6' and 5'10" in the context of this conversation?

 

[Concept Coop]

Troy Brown was 5'10" - and this conversation really started about Cooper "only" being 6'1". Is there really any difference between 6' and 5'10" in the context of this conversation?

We seem to be having different conversations. My point was that WR production is less dependant on size/length due to rule and scheme changes. Not that Amari Cooper is small. He's not and I never suggested such.

Missed Troy Brown; my bad.

 

[Concept Coop]

It's not even like 2004 was some big outlier either, it's just that a bunch of the guys happened to be exactly 6'0" that year (which was in your range before). That's not to mention that this conversation started around Amari Cooper who was 6'1" 210lbs. In the time frames we're talking about a typical year had about 12 of the top 15 that were under that size.

Again, we're having different conversations. My point: WR production is less dependant on size/length due to changes in rules/schemes. If you disagree with that, I'd be happy to have the conversation.

10 years ago, 6/200 was not small. If we're going to make lists, we need set criteria, at least. We should also adjust to the averages of the time, but who has time for that?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It's not even like 2004 was some big outlier either, it's just that a bunch of the guys happened to be exactly 6'0" that year (which was in your range before). That's not to mention that this conversation started around Amari Cooper who was 6'1" 210lbs. In the time frames we're talking about a typical year had about 12 of the top 15 that were under that size.

Again, we're having different conversations. My point: WR production is less dependant on size/length due to changes in rules/schemes. If you disagree with that, I'd be happy to have the conversation.

10 years ago, 6/200 was not small. If we're going to make lists, we need set criteria, at least. We should also adjust to the averages of the time, but who has time for that?

I don't think we were, I just pointed something else out (the Amari Cooper thing) in a quick sentence at the end.

Aside from the fact that you've changed those size/length requirements about 3 times now to try and find the perfect cherry picked cutoff that will make it look like little guys are succeeding more now than they were in the past, it still hasn't been done. Even with the latest cherry picked cutoff we get 7 of the top 15 WRs. The exact same number that we had in 2005, roughly the same number we had in 2003, etc.

WRs in the top 15 under 6' tall

2012 - 2014 (Modern rules/schemes): 12

2003 - 2005 (Old rules/schemes): 13

My point is that, like many mistakes in fantasy football, it's simply an error in perception. In fact, I've always liked big Andre Johnson style WRs and I remember thinking to myself ~10 years ago that I need to get some of those little WRs that keep killing me on my teams. Those little guys have always been there. One or two years away from it (like we had in 2012 preceding the current breakout just like we had in 2001 preceding the 2003 breakout and 2004 preceding the 2005 breakout) is just simple sample fluctuation, not some huge change in things.

If we mapped this out year by year I doubt we'd see any kind of noticeable trend. TY Hilton and ODB are just fresh on people's minds and no one remembers Laveranues Coles and Marvin Harrison and Santana Moss and the literally dozens of other little guys that have done it in the last 15 years.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Under 6:

2001:

14. Derrick Mason

2014:

Brown,

Sanders,

Hilton,

Beckham,

Tate,

Cobb,

Jackson

Troy Brown was 5'10" - and this conversation really started about Cooper "only" being 6'1". Is there really any difference between 6' and 5'10" in the context of this conversation?

There should be. Virtually all WRs are between 69" and 77". So two inches is 25% of the entire range.

 

[Concept Coop]

Aside from the fact that you've changed those size/length requirements about 3 times now to try and find the perfect cherry picked cutoff that will make it look like little guys are succeeding more now than they were in the past, it still hasn't been done.

You seem to misinterpret my posts. I didn't set size/length requirements 3 times; I set it once in an attempt to get some [SIZE=10.5pt]consistency[/SIZE]. And it wasn't cherry picked at all.

I'm interested in looking at the data and am certainly open to being wrong. Help me find solid criteria and lets look at the numbers and see what we find.

I'm not interested in maintaining the current back and forth, however. I don't want to bring my ego into this or have the conversation with others who have. Again, if you want to take a look, help me set the criteria.

ETA: I have SQL server can run the calcs in a blink if someone can point me to the data in CSV or even Excel format.

 

[BigTex]

Am I the only one not overly impressed with Cooper?

Worried about this WR class in general. I have the 1.01 pick in one league and the 1.02 pick in another. I'd love nothing more than to get an elite WR, but is there anyone in this class you can point to as a lock prospect? Cooper/Parker/Funchess/DGB/White all seem to have at least one or two things you can nitpick. I'm sure a couple of those guys will end up being solid, but the trust factor isn't there for me yet. The combine should help clear things up. Not only because of the tangible measurements, but also by offering a level playing field and good camera angles to evaluate movement. That's one area where some of the eventual successes like Hopkins and Beckham really stood out in previous years.

What are your thoughts on Cooper vs. White?

People say White is like Larry Fitz, but from my perspective that's just the # and the haircut. He isn't as big as Fitzgerald. Doesn't have the same strength in his base. I do think he runs really good routes and has nice quickness. This might be an odd comparison, but he actually reminds me a lot of Cecil Shorts. Taller and doesn't seem to have the same issues with drops, but similar movement and route running. I think he has a good chance to be a solid starter. I don't see him as that "wow" type of guy who warrants a high first round pick.

Honestly, for myself. I based the comparison strictly based on how he attacks the ball, catches with his hands and separates himself from the defender when the ball was in the air...that's it.

Personally, number and hair has to do with my view and evaluation. I know you wasn't directing that towards me but I've been pumping him since the beginning of the year.

Like I said before. We all have our opinion and this is mine.

Tex

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Under 6:

2001:

14. Derrick Mason

2014:

Brown,

Sanders,

Hilton,

Beckham,

Tate,

Cobb,

Jackson

Troy Brown was 5'10" - and this conversation really started about Cooper "only" being 6'1". Is there really any difference between 6' and 5'10" in the context of this conversation?

There should be. Virtually all WRs are between 69" and 77". So two inches is 25% of the entire range.

fair enough - I guess in the context of the conversation I figured 6' or under would be considered "small".

I don't think the difference in eras is as drastic as the perception makes it out to be, but willing to move on.

 

[EBF]

I think it's pretty clear watching Brown that those numbers don't represent his actual speed/athleticism. One of the least athletic WR's in the NFL? Slow? Do you watch many Steelers games? Sometimes the combine numbers just lie, or come about because a guy has horrible technique, etc.

I'm a big fan of the concrete tangibles, but every now and then a player comes along where the numbers clearly don't represent how he plays. Antonio Brown and Chad Johnson are two perfect examples. Those guys are (or, in Chad's case, were) very explosive. Their combines don't tell the story at all.

 

[jurb26]

I think it's pretty clear watching Brown that those numbers don't represent his actual speed/athleticism. One of the least athletic WR's in the NFL? Slow? Do you watch many Steelers games? Sometimes the combine numbers just lie, or come about because a guy has horrible technique, etc.

I'm a big fan of the concrete tangibles, but every now and then a player comes along where the numbers clearly don't represent how he plays. Antonio Brown and Chad Johnson are two perfect examples. Those guys are (or, in Chad's case, were) very explosive. Their combines don't tell the story at all.

J. Landry as well.

 

[Faust]

Ten intriguing East-West Shrine Game prospects to watch

 

[Faust]

2015 Shrine Game: Wide receiver talent shines in the rain

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

CBS Sports' Dane Brugler observes at East-West Shrine practice that William & Mary senior WR Tre McBride is "showing he can gain separation, track and finish against FBS guys."

"Pierre Garçon, err, I mean Tre McBride showing he can gain separation, track and finish against FBS guys. Understands the details of WR," Brugler tweeted. The 6-foot-1, 205-pound McBRide hauled in 64 receptions for 809 yards, with four touchdowns this year, and finished with 63 receptions for 801 yards and five touchdowns in 2013. The William & Mary prospect averaged 27.5 yards per kick return and has posted 15 TD receptions over the past two seasons. Rotoworld's Josh Norris believes McBride is the clear top receiver at the East-West Shrine.

Source: Dane Brugler on Twitter
Jan 12 - 3:20 PM

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline notes that Michigan senior QB Devin Gardner is off to a "very inconsistent start" at Monday's East-West Shrine practice.

"Very inconsistent start for Devin Gardner/Michigan; very uneven start. A few nice receptions but a lot of drops," Pauline tweeted. The former 6-foot-4, 220-pound Michighan QB began his career as a starting WR for the Wolverines. Gardner hauled in 16 receptions for 266 yards and 4 touchdowns before moving back to QB to replace an injured Denard Robinson. While Gardner will have every opportunity to impress the scouts, the jury is still out for Gardner as a WR at the next level.


Source: Tony Pauline on Twitter
Jan 12 - 2:18 PM

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Old Dominion senior quarterback Taylor Heinicke is "looking the best" of the quarterbacks at Monday's East-West Shrine practice, according to TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline.

The 6-foot-1, 213-pound Heinicke threw for 3,476 yards this season, with a 30/16 TD/INT ratio. TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline calls Heinicke "a cross between Colt Brennan and Chase Daniel." CBS Sports' Dane Brugler mentioned last month, that the Old Dominion QB could be "this year's Garoppolo," while ESPN's Mel Kiper believes Heinicke "is a sleeper to watch."

Source: Tony Pauline on Twitter
Jan 12 - 2:12 PM

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline notes that Georgia Tech senior WR Darren Waller is "dominating opponents" in one on ones at Monday's East-West Shrine practice.

"Darren Waller/Georgia Tech looks like a beast in one on one. Dominating opponents," Pauline tweeted. The 6-foot-5, 232-pound Waller, whose usage is restricted in the Yellow Jackets' triple-option offense, is an athletic freak who runs a 4.54 forty. Waller "has great upside potential," TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline gave Waller a sixth-round preseason grade over the summer.

Source: Tony Pauline on Twitter
Jan 12 - 2:02 PM

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Tony Pauline passes along news that William & Mary WR Tre McBride has been labeled as "soft" by area scouts.

Rotoworld's Josh Norris believes McBride is the clear top receiver at the East West Shrine game and just behind John Brown in terms of Shrine receivers in the last tow years. He can create separation with routes and burst, but McBride also will win in contested situations.

Source: Philadelphia Eagles
Jan 12 - 9:33 AM

 

[Xue]

Can we get a top 30 going on this thread?

Here's a tiered list based on where DraftScout projects them to go:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOLID FIRST ROUNDERS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QB Marcus Mariota, Oregon

QB Jameis Winston, Florida State

RB Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin

WR Amari Cooper, Alabama

WR Dorial Green-Beckham, Oklahoma

WR DeVante Parker, Louisville

WR Kevin White, West Virginia

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FIRST/SECOND ROUND FRINGE

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB Todd Gurley, Georgia

WR Sammie Coates, Auburn

WR Devin Funchess, Michigan

WR Jaelen Strong, Arizona State

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SECOND-THIRD ROUNDERS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska

RB Jay Ajayi, Boise State

RB Cameron Artis-Payne, Auburn

RB Javorius Allen, USC

RB Tevin Coleman, Indiana

RB Mike Davis, South Carolina

RB Duke Johnson, Miami

RB TJ Yeldon, Alabama

WR Nelson Agholor, USC

WR Josh Harper, Fresno State

WR Rashad Greene, Florida State

WR Tony Lippett, Michigan State

WR Tyler Lockett, Kansas State

WR Vince Mayle, Washington State

WR Ty Montgomery, Stanford

TE Ben Koyack, Notre Dame

TE Nick O'Leary, Florida State

TE Clive Walford, Miami

TE Maxx Williams, Minnesota

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIRD ROUND FRINGE-FOURTH ROUNDERS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB David Cobb, Minnesota

RB Jeremy Langford, Michigan State

WR Dres Anderson, Utah

WR Stefon Diggs, Maryland

WR Phillip Dorsett, Miami

WR Deontay Greenberry, Houston

WR Austin Hill, Arizona

WR Devin Smith, Ohio State

TE Jesse James, Penn State

TE Tyler Kroft, Rutgers

That's a good starting point. I would apply a -2 tier bump for the QBs due to the low positional value in FF and my own lack of excitement for those players. I would apply a +1 tier adjustment to anyone I like above average, no tier adjustment to anyone I'm lukewarm on, and a -1 tier adjustment to anyone I strongly dislike. That gives something like...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin

RB Todd Gurley, Georgia

WR Amari Cooper, Alabama

WR Dorial Green-Beckham, Oklahoma

WR DeVante Parker, Louisville

WR Kevin White, West Virginia

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska

WR Sammie Coates, Auburn

WR Devin Funchess, Michigan

WR Ty Montgomery, Stanford

WR Jaelen Strong, Arizona State

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QB Marcus Mariota, Oregon

QB Jameis Winston, Florida State

RB Jay Ajayi, Boise State

RB Cameron Artis-Payne, Auburn

RB David Cobb, Minnesota

RB Tevin Coleman, Indiana

RB Mike Davis, South Carolina

RB Duke Johnson, Miami

RB TJ Yeldon, Alabama

WR Stefon Diggs, Maryland

WR Vince Mayle, Washington State

WR Devin Smith, Ohio State

TE Ben Koyack, Notre Dame

TE Maxx Williams, Minnesota

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RB Javorius Allen, USC

RB Jeremy Langford, Michigan State

WR Nelson Agholor, USC

WR Dres Anderson, Utah

WR Phillip Dorsett, Miami

WR Deontay Greenberry, Houston

WR Rashad Greene, Florida State

WR Josh Harper, Fresno State

WR Austin Hill, Arizona

WR Tony Lippett, Michigan State

WR Tyler Lockett, Kansas State

TE Jesse James, Penn State

TE Tyler Kroft, Rutgers

TE Nick O'Leary, Florida State

TE Clive Walford, Miami

Wild cards with actual potential:

RB Michael Dyer, Louisville

RB Trey Williams Texas A&M

WR Tyreek Hill, Oklahoma State

That doesn't look too far off to me. I could probably be convinced to fold the second tier into the third tier. That area might need more refinement, but generally I think this is a pretty good start. I neglected to add QBs outside of Winston and Mariota because any non first round pick is likely to fall deep and those two look like the only sure bets.

Ben Koyack in the same tier as Maxx Williams? Oof!

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

UCF junior WR Breshad Perriman will enter the 2015 NFL Draft.

According to Tony Pauline, Perriman did not receive a day one or day two grade from the NFL Draft Advisory Board, which means the group suggested he stay in school. Perriman joins a very good receiver class, which follows up potentially the best receiver draft in NFL history. Perriman does win in the "big" game, in terms of off the ground and in contested situations.

Source: Orlando Sentinel
Jan 12 - 9:06 AM

 

[EBF]

Ben Koyack in the same tier as Maxx Williams? Oof!

DraftScout has Williams projected as a second round pick and Koyack projected as a third. I generally don't put a tier break between the 2nd/3rd round in the NFL draft. For me it's 1st rounders/2nd-3rd rounders/4th rounders/everybody else. I think Williams is the better FF prospect based on his production and receiving skills, but unless he's a 1st round NFL draft pick then he's probably not going to crack the top 10-12 of rookie drafts.

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Mock Draft: Will Brett Hundley crash the first round party?

2015 NFL Mock Draft: Tampa Bay Bucs pass on QBs at No. 1

 

[Faust]

Mayock: 5 linemen impressive in first Shrine Game practices

 

[Whitney26]

Started cutting up some games:

Michael Dyer vs Florida State

Brandon Wegher vs Nebraska Wesleyan

one for the Devy crowd.....

Nick Chubb vs Louisville (Belk Bowl)

I plan on knocking out a lot more between now and May.

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Draft: Texas A&M OT Cedric Ogbuehi reportedly has torn ACL

 

[ZWK]

Started cutting up some games:

Michael Dyer vs Florida State

Brandon Wegher vs Nebraska Wesleyan

one for the Devy crowd.....

Nick Chubb vs Louisville (Belk Bowl)

I plan on knocking out a lot more between now and May.

Awesome! Especially the Dyer vid.

I keep watching game cutups and updating my elusiveness stats spreadsheet. Hoping that the kindly people of the internet will provide more games of Dyer, Tevin Coleman, Josh Robinson, Cameron Artis-Payne, Jeremy Langford, Kenneth Dixon, Matt Jones, and David Johnson.

 

[ZWK]

Can we get a top 30 going on this thread?

If I take my generic rookie rankings formula for a non-PPR league, and plug in CBS's predraft rankings as the draft picks, then this is the leaderboard that I get:

VBD Pos Player Pick

221 QB Marcus Mariota 1

190 RB Melvin Gordon 21

169 WR Amari Cooper 5

148 WR DeVante Parker 11

137 QB Jameis Winston 3

133 WR Kevin White 16

125 RB Todd Gurley 34

117 WR Dorial Green-Beckham 22

103 WR Jaelen Strong 27

92 WR Devin Funchess 31

87 RB Ameer Abdullah 46

81 RB Tevin Coleman 54

80 RB Duke Johnson 58

79 RB Jay Ajayi 61

75 RB T.J. Yeldon 71

70 WR Sammie Coates 40

69 QB Brett Hundley 28

68 RB Mike Davis 81

66 RB Javorius Allen 88

60 WR Josh Harper 51

57 WR Ty Montgomery 59

55 WR Nelson Agholor 65

53 WR Justin Hardy 69

53 RB Cameron Artis-Payne 104

50 WR Rashad Greene 75

47 WR Tyler Lockett 84

45 TE Maxx Williams 45

41 RB David Cobb 115

38 WR Breshad Perriman 96

38 RB Jeremy Langford 117

36 WR Tony Lippett 98

33 TE Clive Walford 70

27 TE Nick O'Leary 90

27 WR Vince Mayle 109

24 RB Matt Jones 130

21 TE Ben Koyack 103

In PPR leagues, Cooper & Gordon move up to 1 & 2, while Mariota & Winston fall to 3 & 9. The complete list (for PPR or non-PPR) is here.

 

[Whitney26]

Started cutting up some games:

Michael Dyer vs Florida State

Brandon Wegher vs Nebraska Wesleyan

one for the Devy crowd.....

Nick Chubb vs Louisville (Belk Bowl)

I plan on knocking out a lot more between now and May.

Awesome! Especially the Dyer vid.

I keep watching game cutups and updating my elusiveness stats spreadsheet. Hoping that the kindly people of the internet will provide more games of Dyer, Tevin Coleman, Josh Robinson, Cameron Artis-Payne, Jeremy Langford, Kenneth Dixon, Matt Jones, and David Johnson.

Your spreadsheets are awesome. I'm trying to find the NC State game for Dyer, but I don't have it yet. I'm sure I'll do several of the guys you listed. I don' t think Dixon is coming out, but I may have missed him announcing otherwise.

I did come across some other David Johnson cut-ups. They were made just a day or so ago so you may not have seen them yet. They are:

vs Illinois State

vs Missouri State

vs North Dakota State

Hope this helps.

 

[Faust]

Ohio State's Ezekiel Elliott best player on field in CFB title game

Excerpt:

Devin SmithThree of fastest-rising prospects in Monday's game all flashed -- Oregon defensive linemen DeForest Buckner and Arik Armstead, and Ohio State WR Devin Smith. They weren't all dominant but you saw the quickness and range of Buckner, the strength and power of Armstead at the point of attack, and the deep speed from Smith.

Smith reminds me some of Mike Wallace because he is a pure deep threat. He needs time to develop route trees but can take the top off a defense with his speed. I'm eager to see him at the Senior Bowl next week because there will be a few corners there that many wonder if they can really run; we'll be able to see right away when they line up across from Smith.

 

[Faust]

East West Shrine: Day 1

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

CBS Sports' Rob Rang believes Ohio State senior TE Jeff Heuerman "has helped himself in 2014 because of his improvements as a blocker in the Buckeyes' offense."

An important note on Heuerman's draft stock, because he'd posted only 17 catches for 207 yards and two touchdowns heading into Monday night. "Lining up in the backfield, inline or out wide, he does a terrific job breaking down and engaging with his target, sustaining his blocks with technique and toughness," Rang wrote. "Heuerman was always an above average athlete for the position, but he has finally put it all together to best use that fluidity in his routes and after the catch. He could be a top-100 prospect due to his all-around, versatile skill-set."

Source: CBS Sports
Jan 12 - 9:46 PM

CBS Sports' Rob Rang wrote that Ohio State senior WR Devin Smith is a "nine route monster with his striding speed to stretch the field, tracking extremely well with the ball skills to finish."

"However, it's the rest of the route tree that is the concern with his next level potential, lacking seasoning as an underneath receiver," Rang wrote. "Smith has sticky hands to make highlight reel grabs and has scored 12 touchdowns in 2014 on only 32 receptions - that's a touchdown every 2.7 catches, best in the NCAA. He is one of the best prospects for the 2015 NFL Draft class when it comes to vertical patterns, but his limitations elsewhere make it tough to feel confident with him as anything more than a No. 3 or 4 NFL receiver." The 6-foot-1, 197-pound Smith entered Monday night with 32 receptions for 886 yards, averaging 27.7 yards per catch.

Source: CBS Sports
Jan 12 - 9:24 PM

 

[matttyl]

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[Faust]

2015 Shrine Game: Heinicke proving himself as week's top passer

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

South Alabama senior TE Wes Saxton is "very impressive" athletically, but he's dropping to many catchable throws" at East-West Shrine practice, according to TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline.
The South Alabama prospect hauled in 20 catches for 155 yards this season, but missed three games due to injury. In Saxton's junior season, he hauled in 50 receptions for 635 yards averaging 12.7 yards a carry. Saxton is a very intriguing move tight end prospect, due to his size and athleticism. However, Pauline noted back in August that Saxton was "also rough around the edges, showing little impact as a blocker and dropping a number of easy passes thrown in his direction."

Source: Tony Pauline on Twitter
Jan 13 - 4:04 PM

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline notes that Arizona redshirt senior WR Austin Hill could be a "late round steal" and mentioned that he was "applauded by coaches for his route running and pass catching" at East-West Shrine practice.
Pauline reported back in December, that NFL scouts have concerns that Hill isn't completely healed from last season's knee injury. The Wildcats used Hill in more of a tight end role as the 2014 season progressed. The Arizona prospect finished the season second on the team in receptions with 49, and was third on the team in receiving yards with 635. Pauline noted last month that Hill's "inability to separate from defenders on the college level is causing a lot of concern from area scouts, many who now stamp Hill as a late rounder."

Source: Tony Pauline on Twitter
Jan 13 - 3:19 PM

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Sports Illustrated's Chris Burke believes Ohio State senior TE Jeff Heuerman has made a case to be "the No. 2 [rated tight end in the class] as a versatile talent in a slightly underwhelming class."
Minnesota's Maxx Williams is the consensus top tight end in the class. "Ohio State relies on Heuerman far more as a blocker than a pass-catcher," Burke wrote. "Heuerman has, however, flashed the ability to trouble defenses downfield, plus will stand out above some of his positional counterparts for the work he does in the run game." Heuerman posted only 17 catches for 207 yards and two touchdowns, but it's fair to point out that he struggled with injuries in 2014, and was also a victim of Ohio State having too many mouths to feed on offense.

Source: Sports Illustrated
Jan 13 - 6:46 PM

 

[Faust]

Oklahoma TE Blake Bell impressive at Shrine Game

 

[Faust]

Who's talking to who at East-West Shrine Game practices