What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Dynasty QB Rankings Breakdown (1 Viewer)

Sigmund Bloom

Footballguy
Staff member


The Elite: Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning - Rodgers has earned the #1 spot. He's the youngest, the best threat to run (especially in the red zone), he was #1 in '09, he was the most consistent in '09, and he has proven his durability. Brees over Manning because of the real threat that you might not have Manning for week 16 and Brees is younger. These are the best of the set and forget it QBs, locks to be top 5 for just about as long as they play.

Just off the elite pace: Tony Romo, Philip Rivers, Matt Schaub, Tom Brady - These QBs will give you an edge over everyone except the elite QBs, and they'll give you some elite weeks along the way. Romo was almost tier 1 worthy in most formats after Miles Austin became the starter opposite Roy Williams in week 5. Rivers is here instead of tier 1 because he's just not an explosive talent when it comes to the box scores. Rivers is an excellent fantasy starter, but he'll never put up season-long numbers close to the elite tier. Schaub is third in this tier only because his injury list is longer than anyone in the top 5. Schaub's 2009 stats are actually better than any Tier 2 QB, and almost deserving of Tier 1 designation. Brady is looking at 2010 without Welker for a spell, and then no Randy Moss in 2011, so he has fallen out of the top 5, and he was also affected by injuries last year - he might not be as durable as the others in the tier.

Position Solved, but lacking elite upside: Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning - This pair of QBs really hit their fantasy stride last year, and they are surrounded by a good supporting cast and an offenses that are turning from run-first into QB-centric. It's doubtful that either will ever approach elite numbers, but they represent the last "safe" everyweek starters. Still, if either one was the best QB on my roster, I would be looking to upgrade to a Schaub or Romo.

Could become an answer, could continue to disappoint: Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan - Both of these young QBs have given fantasy owners reasons to get all hot and bothered, but are yet to become consistent, productive QBs. Cutler needs to overcome his penchant for going off-script and devolving into Jake Delhomme-esque interception binges, and Ryan doesn't appear to have the deep ball arm strength or eerily precise execution to become a strong fantasy play (yet). Cutler paired with Martz could unlock his potential and get him back to 2008 production levels, but it could also cinch his reputation as a coach-killer. While both are very strong backup fantasy options, this is probably a good time to try to sell to the most optimistic owner in your league if you have a better QB to play regularly.

Been Elite, but will they return?: Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer - These are the puzzling QBs whose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. McNabb has one year left in Philly (at best), he could easily end up in a less pass-happy offense and start the slow decline, or even worse, end up in a football graveyard like Cleveland. Perhaps he could emulate a QB he often reminds me of - Brett Favre - and put up some of this his best numbers in the twilight of his career. There's no guarantee that he even starts for Philly in week 1 this year. His inconsistent week-to-week performances make him a dicey everyweek start anyway. Might be time to pull the ripcord if you can find a QB poor team as a dance partner in the trade market. Palmer is especially befuddling. Early in the 09 season, he was looking more like the Palmer that was the #1 overall fantasy QB earlier in his career. Then Chris Henry went on IR (RIP) and the team decided to play the soft underbelly of their schedule like they didn't want to get accused of running up the score and had a plane to catch, so they just took the air out of the ball. Palmer has only one legit weapon now, and I suspect that his throwing elbow still isn't right. On the other hand, it's hard to deny that Palmer has flashed ability and production close to the elite tier when he's on point, and 30 isn't really that old for a QB. I have a feeling Palmer will be back in the top 10 fantasy QBs before his career is over, but don't ask me when that is going to happen.

The Future: Matthew Stafford, Vince Young, Kevin Kolb, Josh Freeman - Here are your QBs outside of the top 10 that are most likely to be there in the near future. Stafford tops the list because of his raw throwing and improv talent, playing with Calvin Johnson, and playing on a team that will often have him in catch-up mode. I also believe in Stafford and think he'll come close to hitting his ceiling. Ah what a loop VY has thrown us for already. I totally believed he could redefine the QB position and set a new bar for fantasy after his astounding rookie year, then we had to wonder if he was even mentally cut out for the NFL in 2008. Last year, he made great strides as a passer, and he now has Chris Johnson to distract defenses, and better weapons in the passing game than he in 06 or 07. Kolb is third only because he is still not a sure thing to contribute anything this year. If you're talking likelihood of hitting the top 10 in the future, Kolb might be #1 in this tier. I wouldn't blame anyone for overpaying for Kolb right now, his value is going to spike as soon as McNabb is gone. Freeman's great playmaking ability, competitiveness, and better than advertised running ability were overshadowed by a terrible season for the Bucs, but he has the look of a future fantasy starter.



The Future, but it isn't as bright: Mark Sanchez, Chad Henne, Joe Flacco, Matt Cassel, Matt Moore - These young guns don't quite have the scheme or abilities of the guys in the tier above them and project as future strong backups or QBBC guys instead of possible future top 10 options. Sanchez has some great weapons and made strides as the season went on, as did Henne, but he lacks weapons, while Flacco actually backslid after a hot start in a second year that saw him get more freedom in the offense. Cassel is still in the early part of his development and he could make strides in year 2 in KC, but so far he hasn't looked better than Tyler Thigpen did in 2008. Moore is last on the list only because he has to deal with the Fox Factor and Delhomme, and might not have worth this year. I would trade any of these guys this offseason (except Moore) if someone comes calling because they are optimistic about their future. The key for QBs to have future value is actually being consistently startable. If a QB doesn't hit that level of production, he isn't much better than the WW pickup of the week because they will simply become depth, which isn't that hard to come by except in deep leagues or 2 QB leagues. Sam Bradford and Jimmy Clausen belong in this tier.



QB Palookaville: Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, Kyle Orton, Matt Leinart, David Garrard - This set of QBs are all probably one poor season away from becoming NFL backups. They are ranked in order of the flashes they've shown in the past and likelihood of getting a chance to start on their next team. Campbell endures yet another OC change this year and Shanny isn't that impressed with him. Sometimes he looks like a franchise QB, sometimes he looks crippled with indecision. Smith has a great array of young weapons, but it sounds like the 49ers are not sold on him. Orton is good enough to not lose his job, but not good enough to keep the Broncos from looking to upgrade. Leinart is just underwhelming and I expect the Cards to move on from him in the next two years. Garrard's removal as the starter is probably the most foregone conclusion - the Jags seem convinced that he can't get them any farther than he already has. All of this group can help with depth, but their value is precarious. If you are sold on any of these guys as good future options, now is the time to strike with trade offers.

He just won't go away: Brett Favre - In a tier by himself, and his value is dependent on your team's status. Sanchez your best QB, but you are otherwise looking good? Trade him for Favre and go for the gold. Campbell your best QB, but you are in rebuilding mode? no way you'd trade for Favre. For the record, I do expect him to return, but I think his production will be lower than it was in 2009.

Life Preservers for struggling teams: Bruce Gradkowski, Matt Hasselbeck, Michael Vick, Brady Quinn- All of these QBs either will start in 2010, or have a shot to start soon, but their chances of ever having fantasy relevance are somewhat low. Gradkowski is maybe the most intriguing QB in this group, because he breathed life into a dead pass offense, and he has some Garcia-esque qualities. He strikes me as a good offseason trade target in deep leagues, but Russell and the loyalty to his big paycheck looms. Hasselbeck was the QB for the offense that had the most passing attempts in the league and he still wasn't valuable last year. Vick looked like his trademark elite athleticism was gone. Quinn can only flourish in a conservative offense, which won't produce fantasy numbers.

Tomorrow's flavor of the week: Josh Johnson, Tyler Thigpen, Troy Smith, Dennis Dixon, Nate Davis, Tarvaris Jackson - Now we are to your prospects, guys who have either shown something, have good buzz, or have a good opportunity coming up soon. Johnson is well thought of around the league and didn't back down from the toughness of the game even though his accuracy needs some work. Thigpen's value could take a big leap if he's reunited with Chan Gailey in Buffalo, although the league was catching up to them at the end of the 08 season after he posted some gaudy numbers. Troy Smith's agent wants a trade, and Smith didn't look bad when he got on the field at the end of his rookie 2007 season. Dixon was impressive in his one start against the vicious Ravens, showing poise and great running ability. Davis hasn't done anything yet, but the 49ers are not sold on Alex Smith. Jackson has looked like a QB of limited ability when he has started, but he seems to have progressed some while Favre has been starting, and he could get a shot in Minny or elsewhere down the line. Any of these guys should be more appealing than the life preservers if you are in rebuilding mode, have good depth at QB already, or play in a shallow league.

Roster filler in deep leagues: This group could re-order itself at any time with offseason news, and I'm open to takes to persuade me to move someone up, include someone who isn't in the top 60, or exclude someone who is on this list. The group is topped by Pat White, who has a chance to become a contributor somewhere other than QB because of his speed and open-field running ability, and Stephen McGee, my favorite developmental prospect. You have a large group of guys who could revive their career, stranger things have happened - Bulger, Rosenfels, Anderson, Carr, Russell, Edwards, Leftwich, Hill - any of these QBs could appeal to a team that thinks that they can fix them or improve on their most recent performances. Bulger and Rosenfels are the most likely to start soon, but also the most likely to have almost no value in the near future. Anderson, Carr, and Russell have a ton of ability if a team can ever get them right. Edwards, Leftwich, and Hill have caps on the effectiveness of their games and probably top out as caretaker QBs in any scenario. Then you have the longshots - Brohm, Null, Teel, and Brandstater top the list of this group because of opportunity in their organization (as of right now), and you have Brodie Croyle, who actually looked decent in week 1 last year, but has the durability of a Chinese plastic toy, Caleb Hanie, who just might click with Martz, you never know, and Charlie Whitehurst, the mystery man who SD kept as a third QB for four years but probably won't protect in FA this year. The last bit of the top 60 includes Ryan Fitzpatrick, who at least isn't overwhelmed by NFL competition some of the time, Jake Delhomme who should be on the Jon Kitna career path any moment now, Billy Volek, who actually looked great in the 08 playoffs, but is turning 34 in April, Charlie Frye, who showed signs of life at the end of last season, and Kevin O'Connell, who should push Kellen Clemens to back up Mark Sanchez this year.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think you're selling Henne short, get him a real #1 WR and not a hodge podge of 2's and 3's and you'll see what he can really do. I'd rank him along side Stafford in The Future tier.

I'd like to see what Flacco can do with upgraded WR weapons, but I'm not as rosy on his future as Henne. It seemed like his decline hit midseason when the coaches tried to get him to realize there were other guys to throw to other than Mason, problem is there really wasn't.

I want to like Moore, but that Fox/Delhomme factor's tough to ignore. If he gets off to a hot start doubt can be basically erased, but you have to think he's on a short leash.

In the end, I'd move those three up a tier and drop Freeman and Kolb down with Cassel and Sanchize.

Not much else to criticize here, great read. Although I'll add that Carson's issue is a bum wing. Until he gets that fixed he isn't going to bounce back, he isn't going to fix it so he can be safely bumped down between 'the future' and QB palookaville. I hate writing that as a guy who thought he bought low midseason 2008 :scared:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
thanks for the writeup sig! good stuff as usual. one thing that caught my eye was with the future is not so bright group regarding not trading matt moore. could you explain that a bit further? i took it as he could move up a bit if he gets the nod as the starter this season... i agree. what do you think his outlook is? does he have a bright(er?) future if/when delhomme is out of the picture? what's his ceiling comparitively speaking? shaub-esque?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think you're selling Henne short, get him a real #1 WR and not a hodge podge of 2's and 3's and you'll see what he can really do. I'd rank him along side Stafford in The Future tier.I'd like to see what Flacco can do with upgraded WR weapons, but I'm not as rosy on his future as Henne. It seemed like his decline hit midseason when the coaches tried to get him to realize there were other guys to throw to other than Mason, problem is there really wasn't.I want to like Moore, but that Fox/Delhomme factor's tough to ignore. If he gets off to a hot start doubt can be basically erased, but you have to think he's on a short leash.In the end, I'd move those three up a tier and drop Freeman and Kolb down with Cassel and Sanchize.Not much else to criticize here, great read. Although I'll add that Carson's issue is a bum wing. Until he gets that fixed he isn't going to bounce back, he isn't going to fix it so he can be safely bumped down between 'the future' and QB palookaville. I hate writing that as a guy who thought he bought low midseason 2008 :wub:
Im not down on Henne, but he doesn't give me the warm fuzzies either. With the exception of the Jets game, he only had fantasy value when he threw more than 45 passes, and his interception issues got the Dolphins a playoff spot.Flacco just doesn't strike me as a QB that will ever be excellent, although his deep ball could inflate his stats once the Ravens get someone who can run under it. If Fox was fired tomorrow, Id move Moore up.Curious what your reservations are with Freeman and Kolb.Palmer, sigh, I suppose I am just slow to catch up to reality, believed he was going to be one of the best QBs of his era...
 
thanks for the writeup sig! good stuff as usual. one thing that caught my eye was with the future is not so bright group regarding not trading matt moore. could you explain that a bit further? i took it as he could move up a bit if he gets the nod as the starter this season... i agree. what do you think his outlook is? does he have a bright(er?) future if/when delhomme is out of the picture? what's his ceiling comparitively speaking? shaub-esque?
run-first team, only one weapon to speak of in the passing game, but that didn't stop him from finishing 7-0 TD/INT in his last 3 games, so I shouldnt be so hard on him. The main thing holding him back is Fox's insistence on a QB competition with Delhomme and his past loyalty to Delhomme possibly rigging that competition. Ceiling is probably more Eli than Schaub.
 
As far as Kolb goes, I'm not sure I see what everyone else does. I had him and Flacco both on my roster and chose to trade him last year. I admit, he looked good in those couple of games since then and I was impressed. However, keep in mind the limited sample size. In his limited action prior to that he didn't look good at all. I guess Kolb could end up being a upper tier guy but that's a huge if right now in my mind.

 
Great write up Sig. I couldn't agree more on Brady, who I think is falling faster in my mind than any other top flight QB. The threat of an overhaul in offensive strategy (shift to more of a power running game), losing Welker and the offensive line needing more talent have me weary of Brady as well.

 
Curious what your reservations are with Freeman and Kolb.
I'll admit most of my anti Kolb sentiments are centered around what I saw in college, but there's good reason for that since the sample size of him as a pro as very, very small. He put up some good numbers in garbage time after throwing the game away in half #1 against a play making but middling talent-level defense and lit it up against an awful defense. Basically, I didn't learn enough to sway my pre-draft opinion, which is that he is no different than all of the other system QB's to come out of factory's like Texas Tech, Houston, Hawaii, etc. I think there are better risks to take, but then again that could just be my bitterness spewing in since he floated off and on my roster in the early portions of 2009 as he continually got his roster bubble popped until another owner finally got him and held onto him.Freeman, like Kolb, did not leave me with a good impression entering the league. He has some tools, but he has just as many flaws. My computer croaked this summer and because I am not a very proactively thinking computer user I didn't backup files I didn't view as critical, my notes on Freeman and all of last year's prospects fell into that category. I'll try to summarize what was on there in much greater detail - great arm and can make things happen when flushed from the pocket, but not much else. Poor footwork, struggles reading the field, poor decision maker. He's an all or nothing sort of QB, one that's capable of a lot of big plays, for both the offense and defense, but he's not one to consistently sustain drives, which separates the good from the great. So, at best, I think he'll be good and there's a lot of reason to believe he'll just be too inconsistent to stick in the league. I don't like relying on high risk/moderate reward players, I think they're bad risks.People like them now because they are set up to have opportunities in the near future, they haven't done anything WHILE IN THE NFL to create non believers YET, they were early draft picks, and they have some weapons to work with. I don't like them because I had an opinion on them before the NFL, and it wasn't a good one.
 
Great job with the write-up, Sig. I have no objections to any of your rankings, but I hope Fox has a bit of sense and promotes Moore to be the starter. Hurney said at his press conference that it's an open competition for 2010, but we all know that's not true. Hurney and Fox are so loyal to Delhomme that announcing Moore as the starter would cripple Delhomme's already fragile reputation. If Moore performs anywhere near how he did at the end of 2009 in training camp, he'll be the starter. He'll never be an elite fantasy option, but he could be a solid QB2.

 
I posed this question in another thread and I will repeat here....

What has anyone seen from Matt Ryan that causes him to be ranked significantly higher than Joe Flacco? At this point in their careers their stats and fantasy points are nearly identical. Meanwhile, Ryan has had the benefit of Michael Turner, Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez around him. Flacco has an effective but very limited Derrick Mason and 1 season of Ray Rice. That would lead me to believe that if Baltimore is able to acquire a #1 WR (Marshall, Boldin, etc), Flacco's value would be higher. Thoughts?

I also think it is slighty ridiculous for Vince Young to be listed as "the future", with Mark Sanchez, Chad Henne and Joe Flacco listed as "the future, but it isnt as bright". I realize the offensive system plays a role in that, but those things can change very quickly. Henne in particular I am very confident will evolve into a top of the line NFL starter, all he needs is the tools at WR and the offense to open up just a bit for him to be a fantasy star as well.

ETA: Overall good job though

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Another fill name to throw out there: Ratliff in Cleveland

Mangini seemed to like him a bit and who knows how QB plays out there this season

 
I posed this question in another thread and I will repeat here....What has anyone seen from Matt Ryan that causes him to be ranked significantly higher than Joe Flacco? At this point in their careers their stats and fantasy points are nearly identical. Meanwhile, Ryan has had the benefit of Michael Turner, Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez around him. Flacco has an effective but very limited Derrick Mason and 1 season of Ray Rice. That would lead me to believe that if Baltimore is able to acquire a #1 WR (Marshall, Boldin, etc), Flacco's value would be higher. Thoughts?I also think it is slighty ridiculous for Vince Young to be listed as "the future", with Mark Sanchez, Chad Henne and Joe Flacco listed as "the future, but it isnt as bright". I realize the offensive system plays a role in that, but those things can change very quickly. Henne in particular I am very confident will evolve into a top of the line NFL starter, all he needs is the tools at WR and the offense to open up just a bit for him to be a fantasy star as well.ETA: Overall good job though
Ryan has shown much more in the way of decision-making and reading NFL defenses and running an NFL offense (including running the no huddle in his rookie year). Flacco seems to rely on his natural tools, but hasn't shown up in the way of mentally "solving" defenses.VY has rare fantasy upside because his running ability + defenses focused on Chris Johnson, plus young weapons like Cook and Britt to grow with. Sanchez. Henne, and Flacco just don't have that same kind of ceiling in my opinion.
 
Another fill name to throw out there: Ratliff in ClevelandMangini seemed to like him a bit and who knows how QB plays out there this season
I was on the Ratliff bandwagon last year, but if he didn't get a look during that debacle last year, I'm not he'll ever get a look. Mangini's opinion of him can't be that high if he didn't give him a chance last year and he also kept insisting that he was a backup.
 
I posed this question in another thread and I will repeat here....What has anyone seen from Matt Ryan that causes him to be ranked significantly higher than Joe Flacco? At this point in their careers their stats and fantasy points are nearly identical. Meanwhile, Ryan has had the benefit of Michael Turner, Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez around him. Flacco has an effective but very limited Derrick Mason and 1 season of Ray Rice. That would lead me to believe that if Baltimore is able to acquire a #1 WR (Marshall, Boldin, etc), Flacco's value would be higher. Thoughts?I also think it is slighty ridiculous for Vince Young to be listed as "the future", with Mark Sanchez, Chad Henne and Joe Flacco listed as "the future, but it isnt as bright". I realize the offensive system plays a role in that, but those things can change very quickly. Henne in particular I am very confident will evolve into a top of the line NFL starter, all he needs is the tools at WR and the offense to open up just a bit for him to be a fantasy star as well.ETA: Overall good job though
Ryan has shown much more in the way of decision-making and reading NFL defenses and running an NFL offense (including running the no huddle in his rookie year). Flacco seems to rely on his natural tools, but hasn't shown up in the way of mentally "solving" defenses.VY has rare fantasy upside because his running ability + defenses focused on Chris Johnson, plus young weapons like Cook and Britt to grow with. Sanchez. Henne, and Flacco just don't have that same kind of ceiling in my opinion.
Fair enough. I don't agree with it, but I can see where you are coming from. I still think it is just a matter of time before Young falls back off the map.
 
Pretty good.

The only thing I disagree with is ranking Sanchez/Henne/Flacco below Young/Stafford/Freeman/Kolb.

Vince Young has never been anything but a phenomenal athlete with mediocre quarterbacking skills. He has been in the league for 4 seasons now and his numbers are still uninspiring: 58.7% completions, 7.3 yards per attempt, 1.4:1 TD to INT ratio as a caretaker on an offense that sets up the pass with the run. I don't think he can throw the football. Hence I don't think he has any upside as a QB in FF. He's Kyle Boller or Trent Edwards with flashier running skills.

Kolb is still an enigma in my book. I know he's the trendy pick to become the next Schaub, but right now he's still just a former 2nd round pick who remains a mystery. Almost all of the hype is coming from his 327 yard, 2 TD performance against the Chiefs (the same defense that made Jerome Harrison look like Barry Sanders). I guess a lot of the excitement stems from the friendly system in Philly. I understand that to an extent, but I don't see any reason to think he has a better chance of developing into a frontline NFL QB than Sanchez/Henne/Flacco.

As for Stafford and Freeman, compare them to the other prominent first year starters at QB:

Stafford - 53.3% completions, 0.65/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.0 yards per attempt

Freeman - 54.5% completions, 0.55/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.4 yards per attempt

Sanchez - 53.8% completions, 0.60/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.7 yards per attempt

Henne - 60.8% completions, 0.86/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.4 yards per attempt

Where is the gap here? Freeman and Stafford didn't play any better than Henne and Sanchez last season. Henne had the best numbers of all of them and he posted three 300+ yard passing games in his final five games on a team with absolute crap at WR and a stable of aging backs. I think he's more likely to be top 10 next year than any of these guys (VY and Kolb included).

Sanchez had the highest yards per attempt of any first year starter QB. Granted, he played on the best team, but that's offset by his lack of experience (he only started one season in college whereas Henne/Freeman/Stafford were 3+ year starters) and his excellent showing in the playoffs (60.3% completions, 2:1 TD to INT ratio, 7.9 yards per attempt).

I feel like you might be putting too much emphasis on arm strength and physical tools. Stafford and Freeman look good from that perspective, but thus far they haven't done anything to show that they're definitively better than the other first year starters at QB. I actually think I prefer Sanchez and Henne to both of them. Either way, I don't see justification to put these two duos in different tiers at this point in their careers.

As for Flacco, I actually think he's pretty overrated (he has the deer in headlights look in clutch situations and makes some mind-numbingly bad decisions), but I don't think he's any worse than Eli Manning. He can hang around the league as a fringe top 10 guy for years.

 
Pretty good.The only thing I disagree with is ranking Sanchez/Henne/Flacco below Young/Stafford/Freeman/Kolb. Vince Young has never been anything but a phenomenal athlete with mediocre quarterbacking skills. He has been in the league for 4 seasons now and his numbers are still uninspiring: 58.7% completions, 7.3 yards per attempt, 1.4:1 TD to INT ratio as a caretaker on an offense that sets up the pass with the run. I don't think he can throw the football. Hence I don't think he has any upside as a QB in FF. He's Kyle Boller or Trent Edwards with flashier running skills. Kolb is still an enigma in my book. I know he's the trendy pick to become the next Schaub, but right now he's still just a former 2nd round pick who remains a mystery. Almost all of the hype is coming from his 327 yard, 2 TD performance against the Chiefs (the same defense that made Jerome Harrison look like Barry Sanders). I guess a lot of the excitement stems from the friendly system in Philly. I understand that to an extent, but I don't see any reason to think he has a better chance of developing into a frontline NFL QB than Sanchez/Henne/Flacco. As for Stafford and Freeman, compare them to the other prominent first year starters at QB:Stafford - 53.3% completions, 0.65/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.0 yards per attempt Freeman - 54.5% completions, 0.55/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.4 yards per attemptSanchez - 53.8% completions, 0.60/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.7 yards per attemptHenne - 60.8% completions, 0.86/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.4 yards per attemptWhere is the gap here? Freeman and Stafford didn't play any better than Henne and Sanchez last season. Henne had the best numbers of all of them and he posted three 300+ yard passing games in his final five games on a team with absolute crap at WR and a stable of aging backs. I think he's more likely to be top 10 next year than any of these guys (VY and Kolb included). Sanchez had the highest yards per attempt of any first year starter QB. Granted, he played on the best team, but that's offset by his lack of experience (he only started one season in college whereas Henne/Freeman/Stafford were 3+ year starters) and his excellent showing in the playoffs (60.3% completions, 2:1 TD to INT ratio, 7.9 yards per attempt). I feel like you might be putting too much emphasis on arm strength and physical tools. Stafford and Freeman look good from that perspective, but thus far they haven't done anything to show that they're definitively better than the other first year starters at QB. I actually think I prefer Sanchez and Henne to both of them. Either way, I don't see justification to put these two duos in different tiers at this point in their careers.As for Flacco, I actually think he's pretty overrated (he has the deer in headlights look in clutch situations and makes some mind-numbingly bad decisions), but I don't think he's any worse than Eli Manning. He can hang around the league as a fringe top 10 guy for years.
VY before Chris Johnson and VY after Chris Johnson are two totally different players, I am not persuaded by aggregating his numbers over his whole career.Kolb is set up to take over one of the most pass happy attacks in the league with three talented young targets. The fantasy potential is enormous regardless of what you think of Kolb as a player.As I said above, Henne's 300+ yard games came when he threw over 45 passes. No way that will be the norm for him going forward. When he threw a reasonable amount of passes, he was pedestrian.Im basing the preference for Freeman and Stafford on what I saw, not their rookie year stats, which are basically meaningless imo. Freeman and Stafford have much higher ceilings because of their tools, and I am concerned with ceiling at QB more than other positions because if a QB doesnt crack the top 10-12 for fantasy, then they aren't worth much to me - hence not really putting much stock in Flacco hanging around as a fringe top 10 guy when he hasn't shown the potential to do more.
 
Pretty good.

The only thing I disagree with is ranking Sanchez/Henne/Flacco below Young/Stafford/Freeman/Kolb.

Vince Young has never been anything but a phenomenal athlete with mediocre quarterbacking skills. He has been in the league for 4 seasons now and his numbers are still uninspiring: 58.7% completions, 7.3 yards per attempt, 1.4:1 TD to INT ratio as a caretaker on an offense that sets up the pass with the run. I don't think he can throw the football. Hence I don't think he has any upside as a QB in FF. He's Kyle Boller or Trent Edwards with flashier running skills.

Kolb is still an enigma in my book. I know he's the trendy pick to become the next Schaub, but right now he's still just a former 2nd round pick who remains a mystery. Almost all of the hype is coming from his 327 yard, 2 TD performance against the Chiefs (the same defense that made Jerome Harrison look like Barry Sanders). I guess a lot of the excitement stems from the friendly system in Philly. I understand that to an extent, but I don't see any reason to think he has a better chance of developing into a frontline NFL QB than Sanchez/Henne/Flacco.

As for Stafford and Freeman, compare them to the other prominent first year starters at QB:

Stafford - 53.3% completions, 0.65/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.0 yards per attempt

Freeman - 54.5% completions, 0.55/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.4 yards per attempt

Sanchez - 53.8% completions, 0.60/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.7 yards per attempt

Henne - 60.8% completions, 0.86/1 TD to INT ratio, 6.4 yards per attempt

Where is the gap here? Freeman and Stafford didn't play any better than Henne and Sanchez last season. Henne had the best numbers of all of them and he posted three 300+ yard passing games in his final five games on a team with absolute crap at WR and a stable of aging backs. I think he's more likely to be top 10 next year than any of these guys (VY and Kolb included).

Sanchez had the highest yards per attempt of any first year starter QB. Granted, he played on the best team, but that's offset by his lack of experience (he only started one season in college whereas Henne/Freeman/Stafford were 3+ year starters) and his excellent showing in the playoffs (60.3% completions, 2:1 TD to INT ratio, 7.9 yards per attempt).

I feel like you might be putting too much emphasis on arm strength and physical tools. Stafford and Freeman look good from that perspective, but thus far they haven't done anything to show that they're definitively better than the other first year starters at QB. I actually think I prefer Sanchez and Henne to both of them. Either way, I don't see justification to put these two duos in different tiers at this point in their careers.

As for Flacco, I actually think he's pretty overrated (he has the deer in headlights look in clutch situations and makes some mind-numbingly bad decisions), but I don't think he's any worse than Eli Manning. He can hang around the league as a fringe top 10 guy for years.
I don't completely disagree with you, however Henne and Sanchez had a much better surrounding cast to work with. They had established running games and solid defense to fall back on. Stafford was basically thrown into a burning building and Freeman had a a decent situation but not up to par with Henne/Sanchez. I think those are factors that had a huge effect on how defenses could attack the young QBs.
 
Fair enough. I know you have been in the VY camp since day one, so I'm not surprised to see him high on your list now that he has finally shown another glimmer of potential. I just think your rankings of the young QBs might be placing too much emphasis on the superficial aspects of the QB position. Freeman, Stafford, and Young are guys who all seemingly have great "upside" because they have flashy physical tools.

IMO physical tools are hugely overrated at the QB position. Time and time again we see physical specimens with poor mental intangibles flop miserably (Russell, Boller, Leaf) while modest physical talents with high football IQs succeed (Manning, Brady, Brees). When I look at a QB prospect, I try not to let the height/speed/arm strength hypnotize me. Long term success or failure at this position hinges almost entirely on mental qualities (assuming that a player has a base level of competence physically).

All that matters is staying poised under pressure, making good decisions, and making an accurate throw to an open receiver on time. All of the height/speed/arm strength stuff is secondary. So while Stafford, Young, and Feeman might be more impressive than Sanchez and Henne from a physical standpoint, I'm not really buying the idea that they have an edge where it really matters.

It's the same reason why I rate Andrew Luck above Jake Locker. One is an athlete. The other is a quarterback.

 
Mark Sanchez, Chad Henne, Joe Flacco, Matt Cassel, Matt Moore

I take everyone of those guys ahead of Vince Young and Freeman. I beleive all have the capability of 20+ TD seasons. Something Vince Young will never do and Freeman is doubtful to ever do.

 
I don't completely disagree with you, however Henne and Sanchez had a much better surrounding cast to work with. They had established running games and solid defense to fall back on. Stafford was basically thrown into a burning building and Freeman had a a decent situation but not up to par with Henne/Sanchez. I think those are factors that had a huge effect on how defenses could attack the young QBs.
The flipside of this is that Freeman and Stafford never had to deal with pressure or expectations since they played on horrific teams that were often playing from behind. I haven't looked at the stats to investigate this further, but it's possible that playing on a terrible team actually makes it easier for a QB to artificially inflate his stats in garbage time. Even if that's not the case, Henne's stats were clearly the best of the group and Sanchez arguably had the most impressive achievement of the whole lot by playing like a Pro Bowler in the playoffs. As I mentioned earlier, he threw a lot fewer passes than the rest of these guys in college, so you might have expected a rockier start to his career (although there's something to be said for USC's ability to develop QBs). I think these factors might be enough to offset his superior supporting cast.
 
I think you're selling Henne short, get him a real #1 WR and not a hodge podge of 2's and 3's and you'll see what he can really do. I'd rank him along side Stafford in The Future tier.I'd like to see what Flacco can do with upgraded WR weapons, but I'm not as rosy on his future as Henne. It seemed like his decline hit midseason when the coaches tried to get him to realize there were other guys to throw to other than Mason, problem is there really wasn't.I want to like Moore, but that Fox/Delhomme factor's tough to ignore. If he gets off to a hot start doubt can be basically erased, but you have to think he's on a short leash.In the end, I'd move those three up a tier and drop Freeman and Kolb down with Cassel and Sanchize.Not much else to criticize here, great read. Although I'll add that Carson's issue is a bum wing. Until he gets that fixed he isn't going to bounce back, he isn't going to fix it so he can be safely bumped down between 'the future' and QB palookaville. I hate writing that as a guy who thought he bought low midseason 2008 :football:
:goodposting: :goodposting:
 
Nice work.

Put Chad Pennington as starter in Cincy & you'll see little difference. I think until Carson has his arm looked at, he's on life support. [QB20-25]

 
Nice work. Put Chad Pennington as starter in Cincy & you'll see little difference. I think until Carson has his arm looked at, he's on life support. [QB20-25]
oh man, you helped me remember I forgot Pennington, he belongs somewhere in that 40-50 range - thanks.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top