Dynasty Rankings (6 Viewers)

[Concept Coop]

Now you have touched on an interesting topic for discussion. Which is - how often should dynasty rankings be "updated"? That is to say, that some people are of the mindset that if dynasty rankings are updated every week or even once a month during the season, they tend to become reactionary rankings. To what degree that is accurately reflecting what the long term production will look like is the debate.Now obviously, when Ryan Williams went down last year, that should/could affect his dynasty rankings - but how much it affects his long term viability as a starting NFL RB is where the issue comes in - and how far out the given projections are claiming to represent.Some people do dynasty rankings that are very long term - 4+ years. In those rankings guys like Steve Smith or Cedric Benson are near the bottom.On the opposite side of the spectrum, some have posted "dynasty rankings" that really look nothing more than redraft rankings with rookies bumped up a few spots.I guess the point in all this being - if the dynasty rankings really reflect at least 2-3 years out, does 4 weeks really demand that those rankings change that significantly?

Whether we want to admit it or not, we all adjust our mental rankings with every bit of information we receive. 2 bad games is more concerning than 1; 2 good games is more encouraging than 1. A single minor injury in a season is less concerning than 2 in 3 weeks. Alfred Morris has been moving up my rankings each and every week, while Doug Martin has been moving down each and every week. Guys with established value and production don't move so much - I didn't panic over a slow start from Larry or a down game from Marshall. And, in my opinion, dynasty rankings should be a projected measurement of a player's career. I know some people put a 3 year window on it.

 

[MAC_32]

What are people's thoughts on Jonathan Stewart? He's a guy I have on almost all of my dynasty / keeper teams as I have long been a believer in his elite talent. Being realistic, though, Carolina is a major negative, both due to Williams and the offense they run. Stewart needs the lion's share of both the goal-line and receiving touches in order to be more than a mediocre flex in most leagues at this point, and I'm not super confident he'll get that anytime real soon.Is now the time to take RB2 exit value? Obviously depends on team makeup quite a bit, but what are some general thoughts on Stewart's value?

I don't know how to rank him, I dealt him shortly after he signed the extension in one and have no intentions on pursuing him in either. If given the full load I fully expect that he could dominate, but there are reasons he hasn't been given the full load outside of that short stint at the end of 2010 (it was 2010, right?). In a pinch he isn't a bad start as a #2 or a flex, but your expectations are always tempered. There's someone in your league that sees him as a top 20 back so he should roster J Stew, I don't know if he's 25 or 35 but he's somewhere in there and it's lower than at least one other guy.

 

[Concept Coop]

Brees, Brady, and Stafford ahead of Newton, Griffin, and Luck.McFadden, Peterson, Forte, and Mathews ahead of Richardson.

Hard to put much stock in these rankings.

 

[Concept Coop]

To expand, any set of rankings that has Brees and Brady top 5, I throw out the window. Same with Andre Johnson, and, to a lesser extent, Adrian Peterson.

It is fine to care about winning now over future production, but I can get re-draft rankings anywhere. I want a projection of career production, in a vacuum. I know Brady will help me win now, but so will RG3 and Cam Newton, who will be helping me win 8+ years after Brady retires. How can their value be remotely close? It shouldn't be.

 

[MAC_32]

To expand, any set of rankings that has Brees and Brady top 5, I throw out the window. Same with Andre Johnson, and, to a lesser extent, Adrian Peterson.It is fine to care about winning now over future production, but I can get re-draft rankings anywhere. I want a projection of career production, in a vacuum. I know Brady will help me win now, but so will RG3 and Cam Newton, who will be helping me win 8+ years after Brady retires. How can their value be remotely close? It shouldn't be.

I agree about Brady and Johnson - can't see a justifiable argument, but not with Brees and Peterson. Can't see Brees being argued above Rodgers, RG3, or Luck but wouldn't argue with someone who had him 4th behind them. Similar story with Peterson, can't argue him over the top 3 + Richardson but won't argue with someone who has him 5th behind them.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

What are people's thoughts on Jonathan Stewart? He's a guy I have on almost all of my dynasty / keeper teams as I have long been a believer in his elite talent. Being realistic, though, Carolina is a major negative, both due to Williams and the offense they run. Stewart needs the lion's share of both the goal-line and receiving touches in order to be more than a mediocre flex in most leagues at this point, and I'm not super confident he'll get that anytime real soon.

Is now the time to take RB2 exit value? Obviously depends on team makeup quite a bit, but what are some general thoughts on Stewart's value?

I don't know how to rank him, I dealt him shortly after he signed the extension in one and have no intentions on pursuing him in either. If given the full load I fully expect that he could dominate, but there are reasons he hasn't been given the full load outside of that short stint at the end of 2010 (it was 2010, right?). In a pinch he isn't a bad start as a #2 or a flex, but your expectations are always tempered. There's someone in your league that sees him as a top 20 back so he should roster J Stew, I don't know if he's 25 or 35 but he's somewhere in there and it's lower than at least one other guy.

The reason is DeAngelo Williams and IMO that's no knock on Stewart. Take a look at Willam's rank on the career RB YPC list and tell me who exactly would put DWill completely on the bench.My long term concerns are more due to the team belonging to Cam Newton now - lots of shotgun, a passing game focused downfield, a chunk of goal-line going to Cam, etc.

 

[lyon812]

While I think the Foster 2.0 comparison is a bit high, I have to say that I've been impressed. He's tough to bring down and rarely goes down at first contact. What he lacks in speed he makes up for with good footwork and decisive running. Best of all (at least for the Shanahans,) is that he has good ball security. The fact that the Shanahans rolled him out as a rookie starter (something they don't normally do) speaks to their confidence on him. I won't go so far as to say that something won't change, but I seriously doubt if he gets benched without an injury. It looks to me like he's done everything that the coaching staff has and could have asked for.

Spot on analysis. He gets a lot of yardage after contact and never seems lost; he isn't a plodder who just plunges into the line and gets what's blocked. He sees the hole, hits it decisively, and churns for positive yards. Anyone who thinks he's putting up these numbers by accident or fluke is wrong. Does that mean job security? No. But people shouldn't be so quick to dismiss him.

 

[Concept Coop]

To expand, any set of rankings that has Brees and Brady top 5, I throw out the window. Same with Andre Johnson, and, to a lesser extent, Adrian Peterson.It is fine to care about winning now over future production, but I can get re-draft rankings anywhere. I want a projection of career production, in a vacuum. I know Brady will help me win now, but so will RG3 and Cam Newton, who will be helping me win 8+ years after Brady retires. How can their value be remotely close? It shouldn't be.

I agree about Brady and Johnson - can't see a justifiable argument, but not with Brees and Peterson. Can't see Brees being argued above Rodgers, RG3, or Luck but wouldn't argue with someone who had him 4th behind them. Similar story with Peterson, can't argue him over the top 3 + Richardson but won't argue with someone who has him 5th behind them.

Brees should be behind Newton, RG3, Rodgers, Ryan, and Luck, and even Stafford, in my opinion, in a vacuum. The top 5 should be pretty clear, and Stafford is close to being removed from that list. Now, this is in a vacuum. So, if I need high end QB1 points to win this year, I would lean away from Luck and Stafford and towards Brees. But dynasty rankings shouldn't do that. It should be in a vacuum, as if I was using them for a start up draft. As for Peterson, I am fine with him top 5, though I don't value him as such (top 7-8ish) . Like you said, top 4 should all be ranked ahead of Peterson. I think Charles should as well.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

I really don't get the idea of trading Foster away; only way I can see it making sense is if you have no chance of winning your league this year. And even in that case, unless I'm getting one of Trent Richardson/Calvin Johnson/AJ Green/Julio Jones with another piece, I'm not making the deal.

I think that's the point. People are saying you can get that type of return on him, and that you should.

And I'm saying if there's any chance of me being able to win my league this year, then I wouldn't trade Foster for any of those guys. Even in a dynasty league, if I think I can win the league this year, then I wouldn't trade the #1 redraft player away for anything.

But you JUST SAID that you would. So would you, or no?

I'm not to sure what you're asking, but I said I'd trade Foster if I don't think I can win my dynasty league in this season, I would not trade Foster if I do think I can win my dynasty league.

 

[renesauz]

Correct, it takes a bigger sample to change my mind in a case like this one. I function with a pick him up now, ask questions later philosophy with most out of nowhere waiver guys but not Shannahan RB's. I'm sure there are other exceptions too.

Bolded is the key for me. Is there a chance that I might miss out on the next Terrell Davis? Sure. But that also means I avoided over paying for guys like Ryan Torain, Evan Royster, Olandis Gary, Tatum Bell, and Quentin Griffin, all of whom were equally productive in short bursts in a Shanahan ground attack.Obviously even a very short window of production is worth a WW pickup or a later rookie pick, so nicely done to current Morris owners. But that isn't what we're talking about here. Valuing Alfred Morris as dynasty RB15 is completely ignoring the very real chance that he is Ryan Torain v 2.0.

Having watched the guy, I'm not blown away. I see nothing special, just a hard-nosed lunchpail kind of guy taking what's there in a good offense while adding zero as a receiver. Late 2010 Torain was actually more impressive IMO because he was providing essentially the same thing in a vastly inferior offense. Time will tell, but given the history, the percentages are pretty clear...

I'm not willing to pay anywhere near the current "market value" for Morris

 

[renesauz]

Sorry for theh awful question but where do people go for updated dynasty rankings besides FBG?F&l are "old" as well as the spreadsheet that used to float around

Here's some morehttp://www.fantasysharks.com/apps/bert/forecasts/rankings.php?Segment=1

Wow - FantasySharks' latest ranking from yesterday have Alfred Morris as RB31. I'm not sure I buy him as a top 10-12 guy yet, but RB31 is waaay too low.

Too low for redraft perhaps, but that feels about right to me for dynasty

 

[belljr]

I'm dumping Rashard Jennings - I've given up is Rod Streater worth the flyer?

 

[MAC_32]

What are people's thoughts on Jonathan Stewart? He's a guy I have on almost all of my dynasty / keeper teams as I have long been a believer in his elite talent. Being realistic, though, Carolina is a major negative, both due to Williams and the offense they run. Stewart needs the lion's share of both the goal-line and receiving touches in order to be more than a mediocre flex in most leagues at this point, and I'm not super confident he'll get that anytime real soon.

Is now the time to take RB2 exit value? Obviously depends on team makeup quite a bit, but what are some general thoughts on Stewart's value?

I don't know how to rank him, I dealt him shortly after he signed the extension in one and have no intentions on pursuing him in either. If given the full load I fully expect that he could dominate, but there are reasons he hasn't been given the full load outside of that short stint at the end of 2010 (it was 2010, right?). In a pinch he isn't a bad start as a #2 or a flex, but your expectations are always tempered. There's someone in your league that sees him as a top 20 back so he should roster J Stew, I don't know if he's 25 or 35 but he's somewhere in there and it's lower than at least one other guy.

The reason is DeAngelo Williams and IMO that's no knock on Stewart. Take a look at Willam's rank on the career RB YPC list and tell me who exactly would put DWill completely on the bench.My long term concerns are more due to the team belonging to Cam Newton now - lots of shotgun, a passing game focused downfield, a chunk of goal-line going to Cam, etc.

I still don't understand their logic in throwing all of the $ at their RB's at the expense of other positions, obvious holes on the team. DeAng and Cam at the goal line are the reasons why, I just don't understand why the Panthers chose to do it - only thing that makes any sense to me is they don't believe J Stew can handle the feature load. Given his lower body injuries his entire career, I get it, just wish they were more transparent about it. We all know his ability with a full slate of work is elite, just tough seeing it's there anymore, it's why I don't know where to rank him because if given 300-350 touches he's a top 5 back.

 

[MAC_32]

To expand, any set of rankings that has Brees and Brady top 5, I throw out the window. Same with Andre Johnson, and, to a lesser extent, Adrian Peterson.It is fine to care about winning now over future production, but I can get re-draft rankings anywhere. I want a projection of career production, in a vacuum. I know Brady will help me win now, but so will RG3 and Cam Newton, who will be helping me win 8+ years after Brady retires. How can their value be remotely close? It shouldn't be.

I agree about Brady and Johnson - can't see a justifiable argument, but not with Brees and Peterson. Can't see Brees being argued above Rodgers, RG3, or Luck but wouldn't argue with someone who had him 4th behind them. Similar story with Peterson, can't argue him over the top 3 + Richardson but won't argue with someone who has him 5th behind them.

Brees should be behind Newton, RG3, Rodgers, Ryan, and Luck, and even Stafford, in my opinion, in a vacuum. The top 5 should be pretty clear, and Stafford is close to being removed from that list. Now, this is in a vacuum. So, if I need high end QB1 points to win this year, I would lean away from Luck and Stafford and towards Brees. But dynasty rankings shouldn't do that. It should be in a vacuum, as if I was using them for a start up draft. As for Peterson, I am fine with him top 5, though I don't value him as such (top 7-8ish) . Like you said, top 4 should all be ranked ahead of Peterson. I think Charles should as well.

No way I'd take Cam before Brees, I don't trust Cam long term and right now Brees is ahead. Ryan and Stafford are tougher, right now I'm taking Brees but in 2-3 years maybe not. How big is the difference? Now? In 2-3 years? I don't know, but I don't think it's all that much. In cases like this one in which the difference is marginal I'll usually trend towards the better right now option, but it does depend on the team. This is why it's an argument I won't pick.

 

[MAC_32]

Sorry for theh awful question but where do people go for updated dynasty rankings besides FBG?F&l are "old" as well as the spreadsheet that used to float around

Here's some morehttp://www.fantasysharks.com/apps/bert/forecasts/rankings.php?Segment=1

Wow - FantasySharks' latest ranking from yesterday have Alfred Morris as RB31. I'm not sure I buy him as a top 10-12 guy yet, but RB31 is waaay too low.

Too low for redraft perhaps, but that feels about right to me for dynasty

My immediate thought too, a possible solid RB2 now with uncertainty in future years - like J Stew (but for different reasons) somewhere between 25 and 35 sounds about right.

 

[EBF]

If McGahee, Jackson, and Benson can be productive at their ages then I think Stewart has a chance given his talent and lack of mileage.

I think he will have his window eventually.

He and Williams have probably been two of the unluckiest backs in the last couple decades in terms of how their situation has panned out. Good for their long term health. Bad for their FF numbers. They would be lead backs on 80% of the teams in the league.

 

[Concept Coop]

No way I'd take Cam before Brees, I don't trust Cam long term and right now Brees is ahead. Ryan and Stafford are tougher, right now I'm taking Brees but in 2-3 years maybe not. How big is the difference? Now? In 2-3 years? I don't know, but I don't think it's all that much. In cases like this one in which the difference is marginal I'll usually trend towards the better right now option, but it does depend on the team. This is why it's an argument I won't pick.

Newton's Rookie season was better than every single Drew Brees season, except one(2011). Newton is about 10 years younger, and has much higher potential. 2x Drew Brees's shouldn't be enough to pry Newton away from an owner, in my opinion. Newton is only 18 points behind Brees, and Newton had, likely, his worst game of his year in the 4 game span. Newton has a legit shot to catch Brees. Suggesting Brees > Newton, is the same as suggesting Roddy > Julio, in my opinion. Roddy is better now, Julio will be very soon, for much, much longer.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

What are people's thoughts on Jonathan Stewart? He's a guy I have on almost all of my dynasty / keeper teams as I have long been a believer in his elite talent. Being realistic, though, Carolina is a major negative, both due to Williams and the offense they run. Stewart needs the lion's share of both the goal-line and receiving touches in order to be more than a mediocre flex in most leagues at this point, and I'm not super confident he'll get that anytime real soon.

Is now the time to take RB2 exit value? Obviously depends on team makeup quite a bit, but what are some general thoughts on Stewart's value?

I don't know how to rank him, I dealt him shortly after he signed the extension in one and have no intentions on pursuing him in either. If given the full load I fully expect that he could dominate, but there are reasons he hasn't been given the full load outside of that short stint at the end of 2010 (it was 2010, right?). In a pinch he isn't a bad start as a #2 or a flex, but your expectations are always tempered. There's someone in your league that sees him as a top 20 back so he should roster J Stew, I don't know if he's 25 or 35 but he's somewhere in there and it's lower than at least one other guy.

The reason is DeAngelo Williams and IMO that's no knock on Stewart. Take a look at Willam's rank on the career RB YPC list and tell me who exactly would put DWill completely on the bench.My long term concerns are more due to the team belonging to Cam Newton now - lots of shotgun, a passing game focused downfield, a chunk of goal-line going to Cam, etc.

I still don't understand their logic in throwing all of the $ at their RB's at the expense of other positions, obvious holes on the team. DeAng and Cam at the goal line are the reasons why, I just don't understand why the Panthers chose to do it - only thing that makes any sense to me is they don't believe J Stew can handle the feature load. Given his lower body injuries his entire career, I get it, just wish they were more transparent about it. We all know his ability with a full slate of work is elite, just tough seeing it's there anymore, it's why I don't know where to rank him because if given 300-350 touches he's a top 5 back.

Short answer: they're not the best managed team in the NFL.Long answer: they re-upped DeAngelo before they knew what they had in Cam Newton, probably with the intention of going very ground heavy for a few years while Cam learned to play QB. As far as Stewart, he's good, young, and wasn't super expensive.

Stewart's track record re: health is actually significantly better than the average NFL RB.

Whatever the reasons, I don't see a repeat of 2009 in the next few years. With the offense they run now, there's not much chance of that production unless one guy is getting the vast majority of the work.

 

[MAC_32]

No way I'd take Cam before Brees, I don't trust Cam long term and right now Brees is ahead. Ryan and Stafford are tougher, right now I'm taking Brees but in 2-3 years maybe not. How big is the difference? Now? In 2-3 years? I don't know, but I don't think it's all that much. In cases like this one in which the difference is marginal I'll usually trend towards the better right now option, but it does depend on the team. This is why it's an argument I won't pick.

Newton's Rookie season was better than every single Drew Brees season, except one(2011). Newton is about 10 years younger, and has much higher potential. 2x Drew Brees's shouldn't be enough to pry Newton away from an owner, in my opinion. Newton is only 18 points behind Brees, and Newton had, likely, his worst game of his year in the 4 game span. Newton has a legit shot to catch Brees. Suggesting Brees > Newton, is the same as suggesting Roddy > Julio, in my opinion. Roddy is better now, Julio will be very soon, for much, much longer.

I'm not disputing Cam's rookie season numbers nor am I questioning his ceiling - the former is fact and the latter is real. I just don't feel strong enough about the latter to come to fruitition because I don't trust Cam's head. Any other position on the field and I'm willing to roll the dice on a guy I perceive as having head issues, but not QB. Cam can prove me wrong on someone else's team, if I ever buy-in it will be too late.

 

[MAC_32]

Stewart's track record re: health is actually significantly better than the average NFL RB.

Respectfully disagree, I know he hasn't missed many games but he is constantly hurt with various lower body injuries. This pre-dates his pro career too. Tough to argue there isn't something wrong there, no way to know for sure unless somebody says something but that's also why there's always at least one guy in every league that wants him.

 

[Concept Coop]

I'm not disputing Cam's rookie season numbers nor am I questioning his ceiling - the former is fact and the latter is real. I just don't feel strong enough about the latter to come to fruitition because I don't trust Cam's head. Any other position on the field and I'm willing to roll the dice on a guy I perceive as having head issues, but not QB. Cam can prove me wrong on someone else's team, if I ever buy-in it will be too late.

What do you think his "head" concerns will do to his fantasy numbers? You think he will be benched? Soon? Cut? Injured?Cam's issues, which I think are vastly overrated, will only come into play if they affect his fantasy numbers. Personally, they are less likely to hurt his fantasy value than RG3 taking hits. If Steve Smith took his own advice, acted as a leader, and didn't call Cam out because Smith himself was acting on emotion, nobody would question Cam's head. He has 2 national championships, a Heisman, the best rookie season ever, and he is 23 years old. He is shy or socially awkward and confident in his abilities - that is a bad mix for public opinion. But he is just fine and any coach would take a guy so commited to winning.

 

[EBF]

Cam's issues are overblown. He's averaging 9.5 yards a throw. Basically playing Madden out there.

The talent/upside is scary.

 

[Concept Coop]

Cam's issues are overblown. He's averaging 9.5 yards a throw. Basically playing Madden out there.The talent/upside is scary.

 

[forbidden doughnut]

Sorry for theh awful question but where do people go for updated dynasty rankings besides FBG?F&l are "old" as well as the spreadsheet that used to float around

Here's some morehttp://www.fantasysharks.com/apps/bert/forecasts/rankings.php?Segment=1

Wow - FantasySharks' latest ranking from yesterday have Alfred Morris as RB31. I'm not sure I buy him as a top 10-12 guy yet, but RB31 is waaay too low.

Too low for redraft perhaps, but that feels about right to me for dynasty

If he's still maintaining his current productivity 2/3 of the way through the season I think that number has to drop at least into the top 25 range.

 

[DoubleG]

I'm dumping Rashard Jennings - I've given up is Rod Streater worth the flyer?

I don't think so. Now that Moore seems to be fully back, he's the WR getting all the looks in Oakland.

 

[MAC_32]

I'm not disputing Cam's rookie season numbers nor am I questioning his ceiling - the former is fact and the latter is real. I just don't feel strong enough about the latter to come to fruitition because I don't trust Cam's head. Any other position on the field and I'm willing to roll the dice on a guy I perceive as having head issues, but not QB. Cam can prove me wrong on someone else's team, if I ever buy-in it will be too late.

What do you think his "head" concerns will do to his fantasy numbers? You think he will be benched? Soon? Cut? Injured?Cam's issues, which I think are vastly overrated, will only come into play if they affect his fantasy numbers. Personally, they are less likely to hurt his fantasy value than RG3 taking hits. If Steve Smith took his own advice, acted as a leader, and didn't call Cam out because Smith himself was acting on emotion, nobody would question Cam's head. He has 2 national championships, a Heisman, the best rookie season ever, and he is 23 years old. He is shy or socially awkward and confident in his abilities - that is a bad mix for public opinion. But he is just fine and any coach would take a guy so commited to winning.

If the Panthers do not win games eventually they will move on, I'm wary his head does not translate to enough wins. Additionally, as defenses adjust to him I don't think his numbers will be as dominant. Not saying he loses his job anytime soon, he won't, but before Brees declines? I feel more comfortable with Brees.I'm just glad I'm sitting on RG3 and Luck in my 2 dyno's so I don't have to worry about either.

 

[Concept Coop]

If the Panthers do not win games eventually they will move on, I'm wary his head does not translate to enough wins. Additionally, as defenses adjust to him I don't think his numbers will be as dominant. Not saying he loses his job anytime soon, he won't, but before Brees declines? I feel more comfortable with Brees.I'm just glad I'm sitting on RG3 and Luck in my 2 dyno's so I don't have to worry about either.

QBs as talented as Newton will always have a starting gig in the NFL. Look at Cutler and how much he demanded in trade. If the Bears wanted to trade him again, he would demand a lot in return - teams would be lining up.And it is way too early to question Cam as a winner, in my opinion. He never lost a game in college, and his NFL team is awful. The wins will come with the Panthers improve their team. They can't stop the run, and gave up way too much to Eli and Ryan, through the air.ETA: IF the Panthers ever did decide to move on from Newton didn't get a starting job elsewhere, Drew Brees will have retired by then.

 

[MAC_32]

If the Panthers do not win games eventually they will move on, I'm wary his head does not translate to enough wins. Additionally, as defenses adjust to him I don't think his numbers will be as dominant. Not saying he loses his job anytime soon, he won't, but before Brees declines? I feel more comfortable with Brees.I'm just glad I'm sitting on RG3 and Luck in my 2 dyno's so I don't have to worry about either.

QBs as talented as Newton will always have a starting gig in the NFL. Look at Cutler and how much he demanded in trade. If the Bears wanted to trade him again, he would demand a lot in return - teams would be lining up.And it is way too early to question Cam as a winner, in my opinion. He never lost a game in college, and his NFL team is awful. The wins will come with the Panthers improve their team. They can't stop the run, and gave up way too much to Eli and Ryan, through the air.ETA: IF the Panthers ever did decide to move on from Newton didn't get a starting job elsewhere, Drew Brees will have retired by then.

My issues with Cam's head long pre-date him ever being a household name, even in the college game. Some things that have happened since then have only elevated those concerns. It's a situation I'd rather just avoid, I mean, I wish I'd have bought him cheaply in the rookie draft then dealt him after getting RG3 but that ship has sailed. Good luck to his owners.

 

[DexterDew]

i just want to thank the participants in this conversation the past few days

 

[Coeur de Lion]

If the Panthers do not win games eventually they will move on, I'm wary his head does not translate to enough wins. Additionally, as defenses adjust to him I don't think his numbers will be as dominant. Not saying he loses his job anytime soon, he won't, but before Brees declines? I feel more comfortable with Brees.I'm just glad I'm sitting on RG3 and Luck in my 2 dyno's so I don't have to worry about either.

QBs as talented as Newton will always have a starting gig in the NFL. Look at Cutler and how much he demanded in trade. If the Bears wanted to trade him again, he would demand a lot in return - teams would be lining up.And it is way too early to question Cam as a winner, in my opinion. He never lost a game in college, and his NFL team is awful. The wins will come with the Panthers improve their team. They can't stop the run, and gave up way too much to Eli and Ryan, through the air.ETA: IF the Panthers ever did decide to move on from Newton didn't get a starting job elsewhere, Drew Brees will have retired by then.

I'm the last guy that should be arguing the pro Cam Newton side, but Cam has undoubtedly made the Panthers a much better team. They were dead last in offense and won two games the year prior to him getting there. I'd imagine he's had a huge positive effect on ticket and merchandise sales, ad revenue, and everything else ownership cares about as well as taking the offense all the way up to 7th in yards / 5th in points and tripling the win total. He has very close to zero chance, barring injury of course, of not being the Panthers' starting QB for the next decade or so.

 

[Concept Coop]

i just want to thank the participants in this conversation the past few days

 

[yanos]

i just want to thank the participants in this conversation the past few days

Amen to that !

 

[yanos]

From the rankings I see from you guys, Vick has fallen out of the top 10. Can we expect more than top 10 numbers from now on or is it time to cash in on whatever value he has left?

 

[Coeur de Lion]

From the rankings I see from you guys, Vick has fallen out of the top 10. Can we expect more than top 10 numbers from now on or is it time to cash in on whatever value he has left?

I just got rid of him in the one league I had him in. Starting to look like 2010 was an aberration, and he and/or Reid probably won't be back in Philly barring a deep playoff run. Plus, he's not going to have pocket QB shelf life.He'll be fine this year (not 2010 #1 overall style, but a fine QB1), but 2013 and beyond, probably not so much. If you have another decent QB (or just get one thrown back as part of the deal) I'd look at moving him now if someone is willing to pay for his upside.

 

[MAC_32]

From the rankings I see from you guys, Vick has fallen out of the top 10. Can we expect more than top 10 numbers from now on or is it time to cash in on whatever value he has left?

If it isn't too late I like Flacco as a target, maybe a buy low on Romo - I think they're similar this year and despite Romo's hazy contract situation would rather gamble on that getting sorted out than Vick staying in one piece and in a good situation beyond this year. Maybe Stafford, Cutler, Rivers, etc. - just depends on the makeup of those teams and how those owners feel about them. Wouldn't sell Vick for $.50 on the dollar, but $.80? I'd stomach it if I had to.

 

[killrobotkill]

Sorry for theh awful question but where do people go for updated dynasty rankings besides FBG?F&l are "old" as well as the spreadsheet that used to float around

Here's some morehttp://www.fantasysharks.com/apps/bert/forecasts/rankings.php?Segment=1

Wow - FantasySharks' latest ranking from yesterday have Alfred Morris as RB31. I'm not sure I buy him as a top 10-12 guy yet, but RB31 is waaay too low.

Who would you put him in front of?

Everyone in the 20-30 range on this list. Probably ahead of Jackson and Spiller too. Somewhere in the Bush/Sproles/Gore range seems about right to me - a high- to mid-range RB2 in dynasty.I like the kid's talent, his entrenchment as the lead back, the RB-friendly offensive system under Shanny, and his age. But YMMV.

 

[jdoggydogg]

I don't get the Cam Newton hate.

QBs that can run for yards and TDs are simply far more valuable than most traditional passers in fantasy football.

 

[killrobotkill]

i just want to thank the participants in this conversation the past few days

 

[doog7642]

Despite giving league specifics, I'm hoping this question is general enough for the thread. There's a lot of gravitas at work among y'all, and I echo the appreciation for recent renewed activity.

I'm in a 14-team dynasty league where Team Defense is performance based, with a sliding scale for PaYds allowed, RuYds allowed, Pts allowed, in addition to 1/sack, FF, or FR, and 2 for an INT or safety. In this league, the top D (Da Bears) have averaged 42 pts, and the bottom D (the 'Aints) have averaged 12. In a system like this, how do you think about defense? Do you look for young and up and coming Ds and pay a premium, or does the volatile nature of defenses keep you from investing too much (particularly in trade) for a potential long-term solution?

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Despite giving league specifics, I'm hoping this question is general enough for the thread. There's a lot of gravitas at work among y'all, and I echo the appreciation for recent renewed activity.I'm in a 14-team dynasty league where Team Defense is performance based, with a sliding scale for PaYds allowed, RuYds allowed, Pts allowed, in addition to 1/sack, FF, or FR, and 2 for an INT or safety. In this league, the top D (Da Bears) have averaged 42 pts, and the bottom D (the 'Aints) have averaged 12. In a system like this, how do you think about defense? Do you look for young and up and coming Ds and pay a premium, or does the volatile nature of defenses keep you from investing too much (particularly in trade) for a potential long-term solution?

More info needed. How many PPG is defense 14 putting up, how do the top defenses compare in value over baseline to position players, how many defenses are rostered, how consistently predictable year to year are the top defenses? What's the going rate for a top defense? Etc.My gut says you're likely better off with a cheaper rotation based on matchups vs paying alot for SF or similar, unless the scoring system is really slanted.

 

[doog7642]

Despite giving league specifics, I'm hoping this question is general enough for the thread. There's a lot of gravitas at work among y'all, and I echo the appreciation for recent renewed activity.I'm in a 14-team dynasty league where Team Defense is performance based, with a sliding scale for PaYds allowed, RuYds allowed, Pts allowed, in addition to 1/sack, FF, or FR, and 2 for an INT or safety. In this league, the top D (Da Bears) have averaged 42 pts, and the bottom D (the 'Aints) have averaged 12. In a system like this, how do you think about defense? Do you look for young and up and coming Ds and pay a premium, or does the volatile nature of defenses keep you from investing too much (particularly in trade) for a potential long-term solution?

More info needed. How many PPG is defense 14 putting up, how do the top defenses compare in value over baseline to position players, how many defenses are rostered, how consistently predictable year to year are the top defenses? What's the going rate for a top defense? Etc.My gut says you're likely better off with a cheaper rotation based on matchups vs paying alot for SF or similar, unless the scoring system is really slanted.

Thanks. In a typical season, the top ranked Ds end up around 38 PPG and the bottom around 18 PPG. A mid-level defense is usually between 24-28 PPG. They are similar, then, to QBs in our league. Last year the top 3 Qbs were at 37.5, 37, and 35 PPG, and #s 27-33 averaged around 20 PPG. For RBs, the top five averaged in the low 20s and around #30 they average around 10. The top WRs are around 18 PPG and also average around 10 PPG once they are 30 deep.We may each carry 2 defenses and no more. Most teams begin the season with 2 and reduce to 1 after the bye weeks. I have typically carried two strong ones and played the matchups, but my particular studs have collapsed this year. I don't want to turn this into an assistant coach thread, but to answer your last question, I offered Jets D and Rudolph for Texans D and Tamme and was turned down; he countered with my Steelers D/Rudolph/2nd round pick for Texans/Tamme/5th rd pick. Again, though, out of respect for the thread I'm asking the question as globally as I can, mindful of the fact that this sort of scoring system for defense is abnormal.We've been doing this for 15 years. During its heyday, TB D had a strong 4 year run, The Ravens were difference makers for a decade with an occasional bad year thrown in, and the Bears have been good every other year for a while. Frankly, it's not unlike the NFL in that way.

 

[Biabreakable]

Cam's issues are overblown. He's averaging 9.5 yards a throw. Basically playing Madden out there.The talent/upside is scary.

I totally agree with this. Do not let the media soap opera cause you to ignore the numbers. The media is always looking for a story and it is often at least half made up.I still think the option offense is gimmicy and leads to inconsistency. I think they need to expand the offense more and not rely on this as much especially when it is not working. The turnovers are a problem too. The defense has not been playing well. So that is good for Cam but hurts the RBs.I just wanted to say again that it was totally foolish that the Panthers drafted Stewart and then traded away a future 1st round pick(could have been used on a useful player) so that they could draft Jeff Otah, a huge need at offensive tackle, and the guy they should have just drafted instead of wasting the slightly earlier pick on Stewart.This move has really set them back and I think is at least partly responsible for why Fox was fired. They needed to hit rock bottom to land a great QB which is what they have in Newton now. The offense revolves around him.

 

[Pinopes]

Sounds line a dumb question but can someone post me the link to the dynasty rankings on fbg?

 

[flc735]

in ppr dyno, is martin still the #2 rookie rb or is that alf's spot now?

 

[Donsmith753]

I've done these pretty quickly and will be properly reviewing them over the next few weeks.

I'll also be looking to do other positions when I get a chance.

http://kickbackdynasty.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/qb-dynasty-rankings-240912.html

 

[belljr]

Sounds line a dumb question but can someone post me the link to the dynasty rankings on fbg?

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/viewrankings.php?viewpos=ov&type=dynasty

 

[belljr]

So with all the "hype" surrounding William Powell, does anyone really see him as a viable option in the future? Is he a buy or sell candidate?

 

[Concept Coop]

I've done these pretty quickly and will be properly reviewing them over the next few weeks.I'll also be looking to do other positions when I get a chance.http://kickbackdynasty.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/qb-dynasty-rankings-240912.html

 

[Concept Coop]

Anybody have some buy low targets? Sell high targets?

A few of mine:

Currently trying to buy:

Alfred Morris

Christian Ponder

Matthew Stafford

David Wilson

Justin Blackmon

Dez Bryant

Currently trying to sell:

Andre Johnson

Calvin Johnson

Mikel LeShoure

Holding (not ready to give up on, but not targeting):

Marc Ingram

 

[Coeur de Lion]

So with all the "hype" surrounding William Powell, does anyone really see him as a viable option in the future? Is he a buy or sell candidate?

I'm not feeling it. He's competing with two highly drafted RBs on a team that has consistently been one of the very worst in the NFL at running the ball. Obviously in many leagues any RB within sniffing distance of getting any touches is rosterable, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get him.