belljr
Footballguy
I feel the same way even in Dynasty, I sold.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Dynasty Rankings (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fear & Loathing
- Start date
yanos
Footballguy
Solid list. I'm trying to buy Mendenhall if the price is right. That backfield is pretty open and it seems they found a miraculous method to cure MCL and ACL injuries. I can't find a way to pry out Dez in any of my leagues. He still commands top value. I would not move Megatron for anything less than Jones +, Green +. What kind of return would you consider for him? I wonder if he's still alone in is tier1. I'm not sure if Ponder is still a buy-low. He's put up solid numbers and people start to see the potential.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Good list. Agree with all but Morris.I've floated out a bunch of offers for DMC and Matthews at slightly less than "young RB1" prices this week - no dice.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Calvin was an unquestioned top 3 dynasty player, despite position, in most formats this off-season. Because the WR field is so deep, and there are so many elite options, Calvin would have to continue outproducing the field at the rate he did last season, to keep that actual value. He is not doing it at the moment, and I think last season was a bit of an outlier. He is still elite, still, perhaps, the most uniquely talented player in the league. But, in order for a WR to warrant that value, in today's NFL where more and more teams support 2+ top options, he needs to finish top 2-3 year in, year out. I don't think that is a good bet to make. As for what I would look for in return, I would start with an elite player, and look to get another sizable piece in addition:Calvin for Julio +Calvin for Green +Calvin for Cruz+Calvin for Gronk +Calvin for Graham +Calvin for RG3Calvin for NewtonCalvin for RodgersCalvin for McCoyCalvin for Richardson +Looking at the trade thread, Calvin is still demanding major hauls. ETA: As for what "+" means - Bowe, Austin, V.Davis, V. Jackson, Alfred Morris...players in that range. For some of these guys, (Green, Jones) even less.
Last edited by a moderator:
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I had both Matthews and DMC on my list, but ended up taking them off. I think the price to acquire is too high, still. 2-3 more weeks, I think their owners could be more willing to sell at just below value, but they seem to be holding strong, for now.
Last edited by a moderator:
MAC_32
Footballguy
Bought Celek, Bradshaw, and Lloyd.
Tried buying LeShoure, Ryan Williams, Doug Martin, Quizz, Stevie, Tebow, Julio, and Mathews - no luck all around.
Tried selling Steve Smith and Andre Johnson. Not heartbroken there isn't a market for Andre, but was really hoping someone would be in on Smith -sigh.
Glad I jumped ship from Chris Johnson, Phil Rivers, Tony Romo, and Greg Jennings when I did though.
Tried buying LeShoure, Ryan Williams, Doug Martin, Quizz, Stevie, Tebow, Julio, and Mathews - no luck all around.
Tried selling Steve Smith and Andre Johnson. Not heartbroken there isn't a market for Andre, but was really hoping someone would be in on Smith -sigh.
Glad I jumped ship from Chris Johnson, Phil Rivers, Tony Romo, and Greg Jennings when I did though.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Seriously? I own Jacquizz in two leagues, have been trying to sell him since about March, and have received literally zero interest. Actually made a deal last week and tried to include him as basically a throw in, and the other guy took Bilal Powell instead. He said he would have taken Shane Vereen ahead of Quizz also.Michael Turner has definitely lost a step or two yet still looks head, shoulders, and waist above Rodgers running with the ball. Quizz looks like trash to me.
Last edited by a moderator:
Interested to hear other takes on Ingram. I think hold is about right, it seems most people who spent a very high pick on him won't want to let him go for cheap, and I doubt many people would give up much value to get him. He hasn't produced at all, Sproles and Thomas are both signed to very reasonable deals for the next few years and have both looked much better than him, and he seems to have the injury bug.What's the consensus on this guy?
Donsmith753
Footballguy
Respect your opinion. Would be keen to hear your critique of these.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
It doesn't look like he'll do much in NO, but I think he could be a decent to good RB (NFL and fantasy) somewhere else with a team running a more traditional offense. Probably still too early to get a big discount at this point. I'll be looking to buy when the cost plummets sometime in the next year or two.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I really like the guy - much more than most. He is in an awful situation. The Saints drafted him hoping he would provide a balance that they have yet to commit to.Greg Cosell and F&L are both high on Ingram as a "foundation back". A guy that can handle a good number of carries, wear a defense down, be a 1-3 down back - much the way Ray Rice is used. But he hasn't been given that opportunity, adn I don't know when he will.I am not buying, because his price will be much lower later on this year, or early next. But, I still believe, given the opportunity, he can be a teams foundation back. He made a 10 yard run during the 1st pre-season game that looked like the Ingram at BAMA. Running off tackle, stoping on a dime, super quick cut, caused a missed tackle, turned North and South, got all available yardage, and fell foward after a very solid tackle. He still has the talent that NO saw when they traded up for him. They just haven't used him in a way that allows him to display it.
EBF
Footballguy
I wouldn't compare him to Rice, who is good in space and one of the best receiving backs in the NFL. I think he could be something like a Cedric Benson or Shonn Greene. Provided that his knee injuries don't impact his career, I think he could be an interesting buy low candidate if owners have given up. I bailed on him last year in all of my leagues, but would buy back if the price was right. There's no reason to add him just yet because Thomas and Sproles should continue to outplay him for the remainder of the season.
DoubleG
Footballguy
I noticed that Kevin Kolb is not listed. Was that intentional, as you just see him "keeping the spot warm" until Skelton gets back? Just asking.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Yes, seriously. I won't lambast someone for going Powell, I wouldn't but I see the angle, but Vereen is just. plain. bad.I've been a little underwhelmed with Quizz as a runner the first few weeks, which is why I tried buying him, but it's evident his skills in the passing game and the direction of the Atlanta offense is going to at the very least open up a large role for him in that regard. The snap counts slowly shifting more and more in Quizz's favor because Turner has reached the cliff says to me the Falcons brass see the same.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Right now his owners are holding, but they don't know why other than nothing is being offered for him. Wait a few more weeks and get him for a mid round draft pick after he continues to do nothing as he is a misfit in this offense. Not sure if they will, but it would not surprise me if the Saints trade him this offseason. They should.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
That's an oversight on my part, though I don't exactly rate him. I'd probably put him in around Cassel.
Last edited by a moderator:
Concept Coop
Footballguy
First thing that stood out - I like the rankings on Brees and Brady - perfect placement. They are two QBs that will offer massive VBD during the duration of their careers. It is important not to undervalue that, and place them behind younger players that won't provide that value, even though their careers will be longer (Romo, Ben, ect). But, it is equally important to identify younger players that you feel are locks to provide yearly VBD once in their prime, if they are not already (Luck, Stafford, Ryan), and place them ahead of Brees, Brady, in a vacuum. Next, I like your top 3. I am comfortable placing RG3 and Newton over Rodgers, but I know a lot aren't, and understand that. Newton and RG3 are only putting up average passing numbers (Great for their age, of course, but around league average), yet are near the top in fantasy points. That means they are safe, and have massive potential, assuming they are healthy. Of course, their health risk might be higher than the average QB, especially RG3 who seems to get hit more often, and is smaller than Newton. I very much respect the call on Luck. He is quietly (due to RG3 mania) living up to the hype. He is on pace for a great rookie season, and the potential is very clearly displaying itself. That potential needs to be valued.After few other points:-I think Locker is too high. He has accuracy issues, and that is a big red flag. -I like the Ponder ranking. He is growing on me and I think he lives up to that ranking.-Tannehill is too high for me. I think Wilson and Dalton, at least, will be better QBs. While Tannehill is athletic, Wilson adds more on the ground.-Vick is too low, in my opinion. He still has weekly QB1 potential, even though his warts and concerns are very real. He should at least be in the same tier as Peyton Manning. -Schaub is a bit low. He has staying power that some ahead of him do not.Respect your opinion. Would be keen to hear your critique of these.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
His running style reminds me of Rice, but I wouldn't dream of comparing his talent to Rice, right now. I was comparing his potential use, to Rice - simply defining the term "foundation back."
JFS171
Footballguy
Great thread, everyone. Obvious latecomer to the Shark Pool party, but I plan to be around quite a bit more moving forward. Excellent minds here from what I have observed...
Wanted to throw this out for discussion as well... given all the talk of Alfred Morris and his value in a dynasty (given where he came from, who he plays for, skillset, etc.), how do you treat a guy like Brandon Bolden? I ask for a few reasons: similarities exist given the production for one week, relative obscurity before that production / pre-season hype train, and apparent potential for more production down the road.
The reason is this: for larger leagues - 16+ teams - the cost to acquire RBs is incredibly high (usually). So for Bolden, his cost may never get lower if he proves legit. If he doesn't, then his cost may never get higher.
I think you also have to weigh the team he plays for, and consider that while the Pats are likely to have a strong offense for the foreseeable future, BB never seems to value RBs, so is it worth it to pursue a guy who, best case scenario, forms a committee with Ridley for the next 2-3 years before being replaced by some other unknown.
Just would be curious to hear how you guys would value someone like that...
Wanted to throw this out for discussion as well... given all the talk of Alfred Morris and his value in a dynasty (given where he came from, who he plays for, skillset, etc.), how do you treat a guy like Brandon Bolden? I ask for a few reasons: similarities exist given the production for one week, relative obscurity before that production / pre-season hype train, and apparent potential for more production down the road.
The reason is this: for larger leagues - 16+ teams - the cost to acquire RBs is incredibly high (usually). So for Bolden, his cost may never get lower if he proves legit. If he doesn't, then his cost may never get higher.
I think you also have to weigh the team he plays for, and consider that while the Pats are likely to have a strong offense for the foreseeable future, BB never seems to value RBs, so is it worth it to pursue a guy who, best case scenario, forms a committee with Ridley for the next 2-3 years before being replaced by some other unknown.
Just would be curious to hear how you guys would value someone like that...
MAC_32
Footballguy
He's a clone of the Law Firm. Long term, I feel more comfortable with him than Morris. Short term, he's an obvious step down but his price reflects that too. I'd wait a couple of weeks and hope he doesn't continue what he did vs. Buffalo then try to get him as a throw-in.'JFS171 said:
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I can maybe buy the usage / situational stuff for PPR redraft purposes, but dynasty-wise? I want talent over "behind an old guy" every day of the week. I'm not going to cut him, yet, but 20 games in I'm definitely close to positive that he's just not an effective NFL runner. When Turner actually is done, Atlanta will not be handing the reins to a sub 3 YPC RB.Re: the bolded, "looked awful as a runner for the past year and a quarter" is more accurate.'MAC_32 said:
Just curious -- what have you been offering?
lyon812
Footballguy
I've been wondering if Payton might have had bigger plans for Ingram that have now been cast by the wayside because, well, we all know where Payton is. Carmichael is simply a different animal, and the Saints seem to lack the same creativity they've had in the past. Everything's predictable after the first few scripted plays.Down the stretch last year, Ingram's 14-91, 13-80-1, and even his 16-54-1 games were solid outings that demonstrated Ingram *can* function effectively in the Saints offense. I just don't know if he'll get much of a chance this year.Sean Payton - Coach of the Year 2012. =p'MAC_32 said:'Concept Coop said:
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Torrey Smith is an elite playmaker.
Jon Baldwin is displaying his potential, when given the shot.
Golden Tate is making plays this year.
Reasoning outlined here: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=634139
I think Smith needs to be added to anyone's "Buy now" list. He is more productive than Vincent Jackson, is years younger, but is valued less right now.
Baldwin too. I am not sold on future WR1 production, but he has the ability to make plays on the ball, deep down the field. He should project to a very good redzone threat, as well. Again, buy now.
Tate - I am not sure on him. Maybe because I had already written him off, thus it will take time to come around. But the stats down lie, when given a shot, he is making plays.
Jon Baldwin is displaying his potential, when given the shot.
Golden Tate is making plays this year.
Reasoning outlined here: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=634139
I think Smith needs to be added to anyone's "Buy now" list. He is more productive than Vincent Jackson, is years younger, but is valued less right now.
Baldwin too. I am not sold on future WR1 production, but he has the ability to make plays on the ball, deep down the field. He should project to a very good redzone threat, as well. Again, buy now.
Tate - I am not sure on him. Maybe because I had already written him off, thus it will take time to come around. But the stats down lie, when given a shot, he is making plays.
Inspiration
Footballguy
Each of those games were Saints' victories by at least two scores. Similar to Titans' usage of Chris Johnson and LenDale White in 2008, Darren Sproles and Pierre Thomas are the "get the lead" backs while Mark Ingram is the "keep the lead" back. And when you are 0-4, odds are you haven't had many leads to keep.I've been wondering if Payton might have had bigger plans for Ingram that have now been cast by the wayside because, well, we all know where Payton is. Carmichael is simply a different animal, and the Saints seem to lack the same creativity they've had in the past. Everything's predictable after the first few scripted plays.'MAC_32 said:'Concept Coop said:
Down the stretch last year, Ingram's 14-91, 13-80-1, and even his 16-54-1 games were solid outings that demonstrated Ingram *can* function effectively in the Saints offense. I just don't know if he'll get much of a chance this year.
Last edited by a moderator:
Concept Coop
Footballguy
This year, sure. But Ingram led the team in carries last year, despite missing games. He was the "start the game to create balance, and finish the game to eat clock" back. This year, he's stricly a short yardage back.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I've been trying to downgrade from Steve Smith and Andre Johnson at WR with Quizz as the bridge piece. Not even getting counter offers. I think as the passing game opens things up more and more the holes will be there for Quizz to exploit.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Donsmith753
Footballguy
MJD? If you're win now you buying? Got an opportunity to get him for a mid first and Amendola and trying to gauge his value.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Take that all day.I wouldn't say I am buying, in general. But a RB like MJD, at that rate - yes, please.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
Sorry for going a bit ACF there. Back on topic.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
If the current as-bad-as-can-be-imagined situation continues, he'll be hitting free agency after the 2014 season having just turned 25 and having a very low # on his odometer.And in the NFL, a lot can change in 2 3/4 seasons so who knows? NO is generally a pretty well run franchise and they might look to use him the way they had to be planning to when they paid a bunch to trade up and get him. It's really been a head scratcher for me thus far...I'm sure it would help, if for no other reason than he probably wouldn't be sharing as much, but I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if it's more that he's just not as good as we hoped, or is it more the system? I'm pretty sure most people were happy with the landing spot in NO at the time, right?Also, Thomas Jones and Marshawn Lynch had shown a lot more than Ingram has so far, and people weren't drafting him to be Benson, they were drafting him to be a top 10 dynasty RB. Is his upside more like a #2 RB (Benson) now, or do people still think he can be elite? If best case scenario is a #2, and we have to wait a few years just for that, it really drops his value IMO.
EBF
Footballguy
Lynch? Sure, but he was drafted into a starting role.Thomas Jones...not so much. He had pretty weak production for years in Arizona. As for Ingram, I don't think he's a special back, but he might be starting caliber and that's enough to put up top 15 stats if the situation is favorable.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I don't think most people saw Ingram as an elite NFL RB prospect at any point. He wasn't a lock to go in the first round of the NFL draft, and there was never talk about him going super early where the rock star potential types land: Reggie Bush, Peterson, McFadden, Richardson. Ingram has always been more solid than sexy IMO.
Now fantasy-wise, a lot of people bought in, not unreasonably. After all, why would the Saints give up two 1sts for a guy then stick him as a lesser part of a multiway committee? His fantasy value was also driven up a ton by the lack of top RB talent in last year's draft class, and then even more when guys 2a and 2b were lost for the year early on. Who else were the rookie-lovin masses going to pin their hopes on?
Ingram is what he is IMO. Not an elite talent, but good enough to demand touches and produce with them most places. If he magically switched places with Arian Foster, Ray Rice, or Alfred Morris, he's a fantasy RB1 immediately. In a less RB friendly system (maybe Pittsburgh or something) he's still a likely RB2. The number of true elite RBs that WILL be awesome regardless of situation is really, really small anyway. Ingram is somewhere in the next group of "good enough" guys IMO - he's just in an absolutely awful spot right now. As absurd as it seems to say that about the great Saints offense, it's true for a guy with Ingram's particular skill set.
Now fantasy-wise, a lot of people bought in, not unreasonably. After all, why would the Saints give up two 1sts for a guy then stick him as a lesser part of a multiway committee? His fantasy value was also driven up a ton by the lack of top RB talent in last year's draft class, and then even more when guys 2a and 2b were lost for the year early on. Who else were the rookie-lovin masses going to pin their hopes on?
Ingram is what he is IMO. Not an elite talent, but good enough to demand touches and produce with them most places. If he magically switched places with Arian Foster, Ray Rice, or Alfred Morris, he's a fantasy RB1 immediately. In a less RB friendly system (maybe Pittsburgh or something) he's still a likely RB2. The number of true elite RBs that WILL be awesome regardless of situation is really, really small anyway. Ingram is somewhere in the next group of "good enough" guys IMO - he's just in an absolutely awful spot right now. As absurd as it seems to say that about the great Saints offense, it's true for a guy with Ingram's particular skill set.
Ingram was drafted into a starting role too, wasn't he?I thought you meant T. Jones broke out with the Jets, and I was saying he had a couple really good years with the Bears before that.I guess I agree if everything falls his way he could be top 15, but it seems many thought that was closer to his floor than his ceiling when he was drafted. It's hard to see the situation changing much anytime soon- all 3 of their RBs have reasonable contracts for the next 2 3/4's years.
Max Power
Footballguy
Anyone thinking about buying or selling Ryan Williams? I'm in the camp that thinks Beanie is the better RB of the two. I know some think otherwise. This strikes me as the perfect time to buy low for true believers of his talent.
I personally don't see it, but if the price is right I'd aquire Williams. AZ line is a mess and this isn't going to be fixed overnight. I imagine his owners have to be down on the guy right now.
I personally don't see it, but if the price is right I'd aquire Williams. AZ line is a mess and this isn't going to be fixed overnight. I imagine his owners have to be down on the guy right now.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I think he'll prove to be quite a bit better than Wells but I agree that the OLine is a mess. Given that Wisenhunt has a OLine background, you'd have to think he can fix that in a year or two so I agree that Williams is a good buy low guy right now.'Max Power said:
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
This is Whisenhunt's sixth year. The team's rank in rushing yards since his arrival? 29th, 32nd, 28th, 32nd, 24th, and they're 31st thus far this year. IMO it's pretty safe to say that he's not the guy to fix Arizona's ground game.Also disagree that Williams is a buy low. The time to buy low was any time after Williams' injury but before Wells' injury this year. Since then his price has gone up a bunch. His value is also pretty likely to go down from it's current level as the Cards should struggle on the ground all year. Buying him now would be buying him at the highest price he's likely to have anytime in the first two years of his career. Unless he starts to light things up, but I'm not seeing that, this year anyway.
I liked Williams quite a bit coming out, and if he recovers completely from the injury, I agree that he has a bright future. But it ain't happening this year, and the situation on offense in Arizona is a pretty big negative moving forward.
This is pretty much how I see it as well. Russ Grimm has also been there the entire time, and they just haven't been able to make it work. It's a mystery why they've essentially ignored the position early in drafts as well.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
True and 6 years is a long time. One thing I always thought was that first time head coaches should worry about/work on the other parts of the team besides their "position specialty", for a lack of a better term, since in theory they should be able to better coach up the existing talent at that position or at least make better evaluations of free agents or college players at that position. And really Arizona has put together a good young Defense, some reasonable WR2s in Roberts, Doucet and Floyd, a decent young TE in Housler and two young highly regarded backs in Wells and Williams. Then they went out and got Kolb. Now, obviously some of the players haven't been as good and they certainly should have shored up OL instead of continuing to draft WR2 prospects, but overall, those areas are all at least decent. However that is a long time for he and Grimm to still have a sucky OL. Very strange. Maybe he's TOO confident in his and Grimm's OL coaching that he's just ignoring it.
Last edited by a moderator:
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Yeah I wasn't factoring in Wells injury. So right now may be a bad time. But I do think it's reasonable to wait until later in the season to try to get him if his owner gets discouraged. He seems to be a decent enough play in the passing game that just improving the pass blocking of the OL will help him even if the run blocking doesn't pick up as well.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I would take Wilson over Martin in PPR formats. I would have to do some thinking about Morris in PPR formats. Standard is a no-brainer for me, but Morris' upside is curbed in PPR formats.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Yes, and the margin is still wide imho. Morris vs. Wilson depends on the team, do you need a guy right now? or are you looking for long term upside?Unfortunately Hillman vs. LMJ is just as muddled as it was imho in May.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I would hope most teams can go without low end flex production for a year.
MAC_32
Footballguy
My 3rd RB on my teams are Benson and Ben Tate - if I have an injury to a starter and one of my depth pieces doesn't emerge I'd rather have Morris than Wilson. If I have depth I don't want Morris, I want the long term guy that has top 10 potential.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
In a league in which I am stacked everywhere but RB, I am relying on Bradshaw/Mendehall/Ingram/Wells/Wilson (yuck!)I sent an offer of, essentially, Wilson for Martin. 10 points a game at the RB2 spot could be the difference between winning it all, and missing the playoffs. But I ending up revoking the offer. I don't think it is wise to live in the moment so much. There are plenty of short term moves you can make to patch together a roster spot. In my opinoin, owners would be wise to take the 21 year old Wilson and his potential, regardless of roster. Make a move for a guy like Benson, Turner or McGahee if you need the points this year, that badly.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I am really hoping people were expecting T.Smith/Green/Julio seasons from this years rookie WR class.
I am really hoping I get Blackmon for a mid-1st at some point. Floyd, even later than that. Guys like Quick, Hill, Gordon could be good value buys too.
I am really hoping I get Blackmon for a mid-1st at some point. Floyd, even later than that. Guys like Quick, Hill, Gordon could be good value buys too.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This is why I made the move for Benson, spent all offseason trying to move Andre to fix RB but - nothing. Ended up selling a LB prospect for Benson to be my #3.I still see a wide margin between Martin and Wilson long term because I liked Martin a lot more than Wilson pre draft. Wilson has been about what I expected he would so far, it's why I wasn't interested in him in rookie drafts. Martin's underwhelmed me a bit but I really think a lot of it has to do with his coaching. He's traded in his style for the more physical brand I'd expect from a Schiano guy. Not sure it'll change or not, but I saw a more talented RB last year - believe he can still emerge. I am happy that I made the strong push for Richardson instead of paying a little less to settle for Martin though.
Similar threads
