Dynasty Rankings (3 Viewers)

[EBF]

Wow I just checked the first page. I said Alex Smith is "for real" and Chris Perry is the "better talent" than Marion Barber.

Must've been some good stuff I was smoking...

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Wow I just checked the first page. I said Alex Smith is "for real" and Chris Perry is the "better talent" than Marion Barber. Must've been some good stuff I was smoking...

That's dangerous territory, checking the early pages.

 

[SSOG]

Re: Foster. If he had come out after his junior season at Tennessee, I've read that he would have been anywhere from a 1st to a 3rd round pick. Instead he stayed for a senior season that turned into Murphy's Law. He ended up getting a knee scope after the season that limited him early in the year, and he came down with a deep thigh bruise later in the season. Meanwhile, the team fell apart around him, the blocking was awful, and he ended losing a few key fumbles. That senior season performance was apparently bad enough to keep him out of the draft, but (unusual for a undrafted player) he was offered a two-year contract by the Texans.

So what do I like about him? First, he's a big back (6'1/220) with a down-hill, one-cut style perfectly suited for the Texans offense. He also has soft hands and is a very good receiver, especially for a bigger back. He does run slightly high, but the Texans are working on that. He also comes across as very intelligent and mature for his age with a high football IQ.

I think this youtube highlight reel (stay with it -- it starts out decent and keeps getting better) does a good job of showing his speed, power, vision, balance, one-cut ability, and receiving skills.

The other thing I like about him is situation. As I said, he's perfect for the offense, and he's already endeared himself to the coaches. It doesn't hurt that the No. 1 back is subpar in short-yardage and goal-line situations and has a questionable track record with injuries. IMO, there's a place for a bigger back in this offense. Chris Brown may end up filling that role to the start the season, but he's nothing more than a patch until his latest injury strikes. At that point, Foster will take over. It's up to him to run with it and expand the role.

One point to make about Foster- while he's a talented enough back to produce big numbers with the Houston job, I don't think he's a talented enough back to keep it. The Denver RB he most reminds me of is a smaller Mike Anderson (which is a friendly comparison, since I think far more highly of Anderson than most). Great vision, good hands, very versatile, going to do a lot of little things to make the team better that will go unnoticed by 98% of the football-watching masses. He strikes me as a guy who's perfectly content being a "system back"- he'll let other RBs go out and try to be a hero while he settles for 4 yard gain after 4 yard gain, he doesn't care who gets the credit for the W as long as he gets a share.Still, while his value might be higher than anticipated over a 2-year span, I think over a 4, 5, 6 year span he's destined to become just another piece of flotsam on the roster churn that is the RB depth chart. Guys like him might be valuable, but they aren't particularly rare, and there'll always be someone willing to do what he does who is younger and cheaper.

He's the heir apparent. Pennington is only signed thru this season, and the Dolphins have made it pretty clear that Henne is the 2010 starter. Penny would need another miracle season, and I don't see that happening considering his injury history and strength of schedule. He and the Dolphins feasted on one of the easiest schedules you'll ever see, and now they face one of the toughest in the league. You saw his limitations against good defenses when they faced the Ravens in the playoffs.

I expect Henne to be starting by the end of the 2009 season.

Chad Pennington is the Rodney Dangerfield of NFL QBs. Seriously, all the guy does is produce, and all everyone else does is whine about how weak his arm looks while he's rolling up the yards and the wins. Sure, his schedule was weak, but Pennington finished last season ranked 1st in comp%, 2nd in adjusted yards per attempt, 3rd in ANYA, and 6th in raw Y/A. Not bad for a noodle-armed nobody who nobody wanted.You say that we saw Pennington's limitations against good defenses in the playoffs, and raise the Ravens up as an example of a "good defense". Which is really funny, because I remember Pennington facing the Ravens in the regular season and going 24/35 for 295 with 1 TD and 1 INT. That's a 90+ QB rating, a 69% comp%, and an average of 8.4 yards per attempt. Was Baltimore only a good defense in the playoffs?

Yes, Pennington's numbers were inflated by the fact that he only faced two top-10 defense all year (Baltimore and... Baltimore again). Still, he lit up half of the elite defenses he faced. Will his numbers be worse because of his tougher schedule this year? Of course they will, but that's not important when discussing CHAD HENNE, because Henne's PT is based on how well Penny plays, not what kind of numbers he puts up. The only way Pennington loses his job to Henne this year is if he misses time (always a real possibility with Pennington, of course), or if Miami's out of playoff contention. There's no way Henne can TAKE the QB job away from Pennington- his only hope is for Miami to GIVE him the job, instead.

Why no love for Trent Edwards? He has great weapons and has been given more control of the offense. The Bills plan on running a lot of no-huddle. I see a huge season for him. What is the reasoning behind having Garrard and ShEli ahead of him?

No matter what I think of Edwards' talent, I'm presented with the constant reminder that the Bills have the worst O-Line in the league, while the Giants have one of the best. Edwards is one of the least entrenched and most easily replaced starting QBs in the league, while Eli is essentially guaranteed to start for at least the next 5 years. Terrell Owens was a dominant receiver, but he's 36 this year, which is a death knell for any receiver whose name doesn't end in "erry Rice", and has already shown signs of decline (and the league has noticed- this is the first time in Owens' career that no one has been willing to look past his troubled history and offer a long-term deal). If you're high on Edwards because of his talent, that's one thing, but if you're high on him because of his weapons, you need to re-evaluate. When I look at Eli Manning, I see a QB with an incredibly low ceiling and an incredibly high floor. When I look at Trent Edwards, I see a QB with an incredibly low ceiling and an incredibly low floor.

Thanks F&L!.....Lots of good, strong opinions and takes in this thread. Causing me to step up my game as well....

Peace to SSOG! It's all good my man, I respect the stance. But I'm not simply a contrarian voice. Before I take a stance with conviction, I will have done quite a bit of analysis before I put it out there for the record. And who knows, I could just as well be totally off the mark on this one, it wouldn't be the first nor the last time. But as the saying goes, only time will tell.

Hey, we each believe what we believe, and I wouldn't expect you to defend what you believe any less vigorously than I defend what I believe. I certainly know what it's like to be on the "idiot" end of some unpopular predictions or statements, and I certainly know how easily "idiot" can become "savant" (or, at the very least, "idiot savant").With that said, Steve Slaton isn't even playing the same SPORT as Terrell Davis.

That's dangerous territory, checking the early pages.

Luckily for me I joined in the middle and I don't have to worry about that. I do remember driving the bandwagons for Lee Evans (there's still plenty of room!), Santonio Holmes (seats are filling up quickly!) and MJD (can't... breathe...). I admit it's possible that I've made some terrible predictions over the years (it's a longshot, but I suppose it is conceivably possible), which is a good reason not to browse earlier in this thread to find out for sure. Selective memory is God's gift to fantasy football players- how else do you explain the fact that 95% of all fantasy football players are in the top 25% of all of their leagues?

 

[SSOG]

Also, I copied this from the Percy Harvin Hype Machine thread over to here, because it's far more relevant to this discussion than that one.

I wouldn't blame him for not being impressed with a late-first rounder. Maybe everyone else is catching on to the fact that they're most over-valued entities in Dynasty leagues.

No, everyone else isn't catching on. I would go so far as to say, not just late 1st rounders, but *ALL NON-TOP-3* rookie picks are ludicrously overvalued. In my 10-team dynasty league, I got Frank Gore for my #10 pick this year and an extremely late 1st rounder next year (I know it's extremely late, because he just traded Frank Gore to the defending champion). The same guy turned down a trade where I offered him Marshawn Lynch and the #20 for the #4 and the #14 because "two top-15 rookie picks was too high of a price to pay for Marshawn Lynch" (regardless of the fact that it wasn't "two top-15 picks", it was the #4 pick and moving back 6 spots in the second round). As if "top-15" is some distinction that carries any meaning.In that same league, I had one guy tell me that he wouldn't trade me the #5 pick straight up for Marshawn Lynch because he wanted to get a rookie RB. The #5 pick is likely Shonn Green. Basically, he said he valued a 24 year old back with no NFL experience who NFL talent scouts rated as a 3rd round pick more highly than a 23 year old back who has averaged 100 yards per game behind a brutal line and who NFL talent scouts rated as a 1st round pick. I bet if I offered him Marshawn Lynch for Shonn Green after the draft, he'd jump at the opportunity (not that I'd offer such a ludicrously lopsided trade), but because "1.05" is a number and not a name, it has some magical mystical value. It could be anything. It could be Chris Johnson. Then again, it could just be Shonn Green. I think every pick but one or possibly two is overvalued because of the mysticism of having no name attached (the exception, of course, being the top two picks, which most certainly have names attached). When people see "pick #5" they don't see Shonn Green, although when people see "pick #1" they most certainly see Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson or Knownshon Moreno.Speaking of Lynch, is it just my league that is undervaluing him so ludicrously, or is the general sentiment that he's really so bad that he's not worth a top-5 rookie pick for? When I approached one guy about trading Lynch for picks I was told that his first round pick was too valuable to trade for Lynch, AND HIS SECOND WAS, TOO. The best pick he could possibly dream of parting with was his 3rd rounder... although he'd include Matt Leinart in the deal to sweeten the pot. And he wasn't trying to lowball me or anything, that's seriously what he thought Lynch's value was- a 3rd rounder and Matt Leinart. And the really sad thing is, that's actually the best offer I've received for Marshawn. Most times when I let people know he's available or propose a trade, I don't get so much as a feeler or a courtesy lowball counter-offer. Yeah, his ypc is low and his offensive line is terrible, but this is a 24-year old RB who has averaged 100 yards per game for his career and has been an incredibly strong fantasy RB2 in both of his years in the league (RB12 in 13 game and RB15 in 15 games). And the most he's worth is a likely bust fighting tooth and nail for the 2nd string job and Gartrell Johnson?

 

[Couch Potato]

Speaking of Henne... Can anyone give me a few thought son him? Is he the man when Pennington leaves or goes down or is that QB not currently on their roster?

He's the heir apparent. Pennington is only signed thru this season, and the Dolphins have made it pretty clear that Henne is the 2010 starter. Penny would need another miracle season, and I don't see that happening considering his injury history and strength of schedule. He and the Dolphins feasted on one of the easiest schedules you'll ever see, and now they face one of the toughest in the league. You saw his limitations against good defenses when they faced the Ravens in the playoffs. I expect Henne to be starting by the end of the 2009 season.

Speaking of Miami... There's been a lot of buzz about WR Patrick Turner in Miami in OTAs and training camp. While he was only a 3rd rounder (and at the draft many questioned him being taken that high), he looks so far to be a diamond in the rough and it's hard not to think of Colston comparisons given their similar frames. At one time Turner was considered the #1 WR prospect entering college but didn't shine at USC as they had hoped, but it does suggest that kind of talent is in there somewhere. Maybe at Miami the light has gone back on? Parcells knows how to see talent. Maybe Sparano has the courage to do what Payton did with Colston in New Orleans and this guy could be a starter right away? I'm starting to pay a lot of attention to the buzz. He only has Camarillo to overcome on the outside (they want Bess in the slot). What do you think of the noise coming out of Miami about Turner, and if you did your rankings today would you move him from where is is now?

 

[Frank Costanza's Lawyer]

Oh, one last thing before turning in for the night. I put this in the Hype Train thread, but it's worth posting here as well:I offered Eddie Royal and my 2010 first-round pick for Percy Harvin in my long-time Dynasty league. I was turned down cold. Stonewalled for now. I'll have to get more creative.

I was just going to come in here and ask what people think Harvin might cost and I never expected Id have to go that high (never mind it being rejected). Any chance he rejected it because he knows how high you are on Harvin?

 

[shader]

Also, I copied this from the Percy Harvin Hype Machine thread over to here, because it's far more relevant to this discussion than that one.

I wouldn't blame him for not being impressed with a late-first rounder. Maybe everyone else is catching on to the fact that they're most over-valued entities in Dynasty leagues.

No, everyone else isn't catching on. I would go so far as to say, not just late 1st rounders, but *ALL NON-TOP-3* rookie picks are ludicrously overvalued. In my 10-team dynasty league, I got Frank Gore for my #10 pick this year and an extremely late 1st rounder next year (I know it's extremely late, because he just traded Frank Gore to the defending champion). The same guy turned down a trade where I offered him Marshawn Lynch and the #20 for the #4 and the #14 because "two top-15 rookie picks was too high of a price to pay for Marshawn Lynch" (regardless of the fact that it wasn't "two top-15 picks", it was the #4 pick and moving back 6 spots in the second round). As if "top-15" is some distinction that carries any meaning.In that same league, I had one guy tell me that he wouldn't trade me the #5 pick straight up for Marshawn Lynch because he wanted to get a rookie RB. The #5 pick is likely Shonn Green. Basically, he said he valued a 24 year old back with no NFL experience who NFL talent scouts rated as a 3rd round pick more highly than a 23 year old back who has averaged 100 yards per game behind a brutal line and who NFL talent scouts rated as a 1st round pick. I bet if I offered him Marshawn Lynch for Shonn Green after the draft, he'd jump at the opportunity (not that I'd offer such a ludicrously lopsided trade), but because "1.05" is a number and not a name, it has some magical mystical value. It could be anything. It could be Chris Johnson. Then again, it could just be Shonn Green. I think every pick but one or possibly two is overvalued because of the mysticism of having no name attached (the exception, of course, being the top two picks, which most certainly have names attached). When people see "pick #5" they don't see Shonn Green, although when people see "pick #1" they most certainly see Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson or Knownshon Moreno.Speaking of Lynch, is it just my league that is undervaluing him so ludicrously, or is the general sentiment that he's really so bad that he's not worth a top-5 rookie pick for? When I approached one guy about trading Lynch for picks I was told that his first round pick was too valuable to trade for Lynch, AND HIS SECOND WAS, TOO. The best pick he could possibly dream of parting with was his 3rd rounder... although he'd include Matt Leinart in the deal to sweeten the pot. And he wasn't trying to lowball me or anything, that's seriously what he thought Lynch's value was- a 3rd rounder and Matt Leinart. And the really sad thing is, that's actually the best offer I've received for Marshawn. Most times when I let people know he's available or propose a trade, I don't get so much as a feeler or a courtesy lowball counter-offer. Yeah, his ypc is low and his offensive line is terrible, but this is a 24-year old RB who has averaged 100 yards per game for his career and has been an incredibly strong fantasy RB2 in both of his years in the league (RB12 in 13 game and RB15 in 15 games). And the most he's worth is a likely bust fighting tooth and nail for the 2nd string job and Gartrell Johnson?

I am with you on Lynch. I am constantly hit with the claim that his OL is terrible and that he's suspended.There's nothing a Lynch owner can do right now except wait for the suspension to be over, ML to have a few good games and then his value will be high again.

 

[shader]

Wow I just checked the first page. I said Alex Smith is "for real" and Chris Perry is the "better talent" than Marion Barber. Must've been some good stuff I was smoking...

I'm glad I wasn't in a dynasty league when Mike Williams came into the league....I would have done anything to get him!

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Wow I just checked the first page. I said Alex Smith is "for real" and Chris Perry is the "better talent" than Marion Barber. Must've been some good stuff I was smoking...

I'm glad I wasn't in a dynasty league when Mike Williams came into the league....I would have done anything to get him!

One of the best owners in my league traded "an aging Marvin Harrison" back in the 2003 offseason for a 1st, 3rd, & 5th round pick. He couldn't wait to get his hands on Charles Rogers with that early first-rounder. Marvin finished in the Top-10 at WR for the next 4 years while Rogers finished his career with more spliffs than yards.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I am with you on Lynch. I am constantly hit with the claim that his OL is terrible and that he's suspended.

There's nothing a Lynch owner can do right now except wait for the suspension to be over, ML to have a few good games and then his value will be high again.

I'm down on Lynch in re-draft leagues because of the suspension and his expected role this season.I'm down on Lynch in Dynasty leagues because Fred Jackson is a very good football player, and the Bills just signed him for four years. His presence is going to ensure that Lynch's production/touches are inconsistent on a weekly basis. He's good buy-low if his owner is worried about the knucklehead factor and a poor O-Line, especially if the price is a second-round pick. But he's definitely a guy for whom I wouldn't pay full price.

The O-Line question, though, raises a good point. Offensive lines are still one of the biggest knowledge gaps in fantasy football leagues. We have a pretty good idea about which ones are great and which ones are sieves, but then there's that gray area in the middle where we only have vague stabs in the dark. We can use Football Outsiders' stats for a better idea, but that middle ground still seems to have a lot of change from year-to-year.

A better point is that fantasy football owners have no idea that some O-Lines are terrific in pass blocking and poor in run blocking or vice versa. We tend to think that a good O-Line is equally adept at both. The Bills' 2009 O-Line is almost certainly going to be bottom of the barrel in pass-blocking, which is one of the reasons they're installing the no-huddle -- to give Trent Edwards a chance to get the ball out while covering up for the tackles. However, first-rounder Eric Wood, second-rounder Andy Levitre and free agent signee Geoff Handgarner represent a major upgrade in run-blocking. I especially like Wood to make an instant impact in that area. I think the Bills' run-blocking will be significantly improved in 2009.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Speaking of Miami...

There's been a lot of buzz about WR Patrick Turner in Miami in OTAs and training camp. While he was only a 3rd rounder (and at the draft many questioned him being taken that high), he looks so far to be a diamond in the rough and it's hard not to think of Colston comparisons given their similar frames. At one time Turner was considered the #1 WR prospect entering college but didn't shine at USC as they had hoped, but it does suggest that kind of talent is in there somewhere. Maybe at Miami the light has gone back on? Parcells knows how to see talent. Maybe Sparano has the courage to do what Payton did with Colston in New Orleans and this guy could be a starter right away? I'm starting to pay a lot of attention to the buzz. He only has Camarillo to overcome on the outside (they want Bess in the slot). What do you think of the noise coming out of Miami about Turner, and if you did your rankings today would you move him from where is is now?

Turner is definitely ear-marked for a significant bump in the rankings. But I'll be honest with you, Marques Colston never crossed my mind.I like his opportunity (Camarillo is no long-term hurdle) and the early word out of OTAs and training camp is very promising. Other than that, though, I don't have much to go on until I see him in game action. I'm keeping a close eye on him, but I'm not expecting a major 2009 splash.

 

[renesauz]

Oh, one last thing before turning in for the night. I put this in the Hype Train thread, but it's worth posting here as well:I offered Eddie Royal and my 2010 first-round pick for Percy Harvin in my long-time Dynasty league. I was turned down cold. Stonewalled for now. I'll have to get more creative.

I'm not sure what part of this shocks me more...the offer or the fact that it was refused.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Oh, one last thing before turning in for the night. I put this in the Hype Train thread, but it's worth posting here as well:

I offered Eddie Royal and my 2010 first-round pick for Percy Harvin in my long-time Dynasty league. I was turned down cold.



Stonewalled for now. I'll have to get more creative.

I'm not sure what part of this shocks me more...the offer or the fact that it was refused.

I Eddie Royal, but championships are won with game-changers, and Purple Haze is a game-changer. One of the major advantages Harvin will have over EzE is touchdowns, and that's a pretty important advantage. Late first-round picks are way overvalued. I try to trade mine away every year, often before the season starts. Why not use it now to trade for an asset that can help me win now and build for the future?

 

[Sebowski]

Why no love for Trent Edwards? He has great weapons and has been given more control of the offense. The Bills plan on running a lot of no-huddle. I see a huge season for him. What is the reasoning behind having Garrard and ShEli ahead of him?

No matter what I think of Edwards' talent, I'm presented with the constant reminder that the Bills have the worst O-Line in the league, while the Giants have one of the best. Edwards is one of the least entrenched and most easily replaced starting QBs in the league, while Eli is essentially guaranteed to start for at least the next 5 years. Terrell Owens was a dominant receiver, but he's 36 this year, which is a death knell for any receiver whose name doesn't end in "erry Rice", and has already shown signs of decline (and the league has noticed- this is the first time in Owens' career that no one has been willing to look past his troubled history and offer a long-term deal). If you're high on Edwards because of his talent, that's one thing, but if you're high on him because of his weapons, you need to re-evaluate. When I look at Eli Manning, I see a QB with an incredibly low ceiling and an incredibly high floor. When I look at Trent Edwards, I see a QB with an incredibly low ceiling and an incredibly low floor.

Lee Evans, Josh Reed, Fast Fredie, Lynch, and eventually maybe James Hardy down?I agree the O-line is a huge question mark which is probably one of the reasons they will be using more no-huddle and shotguns. They are planning on not having much time to to throw.How many TD passes can ShEli possibly throw to Steve Siith, Nicks, Manningham, and Boss? Talk about a low floor....

 

[SSOG]

Lee Evans, Josh Reed, Fast Fredie, Lynch, and eventually maybe James Hardy down?I agree the O-line is a huge question mark which is probably one of the reasons they will be using more no-huddle and shotguns. They are planning on not having much time to to throw.How many TD passes can ShEli possibly throw to Steve Siith, Nicks, Manningham, and Boss? Talk about a low floor....

Did you seriously just mention JOSH REED in a discussion of Edwards' weapons? Josh Reed has played 7 seasons, and he's never cracked 600 yards receiving (despite repeatedly being given a starting job, mostly as a result of a lack of options). His career high TD catches is... 2. He's one of the worst "starting" receivers in the league, the reason Lee Evans is one of the most over-covered receivers, and a guy whose coaches have always DESPERATELY tried to replace in the starting lineup. To be perfectly honest, he's not really great shakes as a #3, either. And after 7 years in the league, any hope of him taking a step forward is severely unfounded.Marshawn Lynch had big reception totals last year, but he averaged 6.7 yards per reception, which is (to put it mildly) pretty terrible. He's a quality "if all else fails" dump-off, but he's not a "weapon" in the passing game. Fred Jackson's 8.6 yard per reception average is more palatable, but are you really high on Edwards because his second string RB is a decent but not great option in the passing game? Also... James Hardy? Again, are you kidding me? You're listing a WR with 9 career catches (and less than 10 career yards per reception) as a possible weapon, but you're rolling your eyes derisively at Steve Smith (the exact same draft pedigree, but with 50 more catches)?Basically, Edwards has Lee Evans (a legit weapon), a poor WR3 who's been turned into arguably the worst WR2 in the league, a 1st string RB who's really only useful as a safety valve, a second string RB who's not even a significantly better receiving threat than the first stringer, and a guy with 9 career receptions. Oh, and the worst pass-blocking offensive line in the entire league. He also plays in arguably the least desirable destination for free agents for a thrifty owner.Eli's weapons are totally unproven, but they're not any worse than Edwards'. Nicks is a 1st rounder, Smith is a 2nd rounder, and Manningham is a 3rd rounder. Kevin Boss had 6 receiving TDs last season (and averages a TD for every 5 catches for his career- it's pretty silly to question how many TD passes Eli can possibly throw to him). New York is a desirable free agent destination, and the owner has showen a willingness to spend lavishly. You also conveniently "forgot" to mention Domanick Hixon, who is a legit NFL starter (although not a legit NFL #1).More importantly, though... Eli's going to be a starting QB for the next 5 years. Period, end of story, end of discussion, take it to Vegas, that's all she wrote. He's the highest paid player in the league right now, which all but guarantees him of a starting job. He's also finished 5th, 10th, 13th, and 13th in his four seasons as a starter. Even if you expect him to take a MASSIVE step back with Burress gone, he's pretty much a lock to be a top-24 fantasy QB for the next 5 years. That's his floor- guaranteed fantasy QB2 for 5 years. That's an INCREDIBLY high floor. I can name maybe 5 other fantasy QBs with a floor that high. You know what Trent Edwards' floor is? Out of the league in 2 seasons. The team has very little money invested in him, which means it's incredibly easy for them to dump him and move on to something better (whether it's a free agent like Pennington or a draft pick like Bradshaw, McCoy, or Snead). That's an incredibly LOW floor. Even if Edwards *DOES* retain the starting job for the next 5 years, his highest fantasy finish is QB23 (while Eli's lowest is QB13, a full 10 spots higher). So yeah, Edwards floor is absurdly low compared to Eli's.Look, I don't think Eli is a great QB. I thought he was tremendously overrated coming out of college, and I think he's incredibly overrated today. That's entirely beside the point, though- when you're a stone-cold guaranteed 5-year starter on a quality team with a proven track record of success, then you have tremendous fantasy value.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Look, I don't think Eli is a great QB. I thought he was tremendously overrated coming out of college, and I think he's incredibly overrated today. That's entirely beside the point, though- when you're a stone-cold guaranteed 5-year starter on a quality team with a proven track record of success, then you have tremendous fantasy value.

In Eli's case, you have tremendous mediocrity.

 

[EBF]

Speaking of Henne... Can anyone give me a few thought son him? Is he the man when Pennington leaves or goes down or is that QB not currently on their roster?

He's the heir apparent. Pennington is only signed thru this season, and the Dolphins have made it pretty clear that Henne is the 2010 starter. Penny would need another miracle season, and I don't see that happening considering his injury history and strength of schedule. He and the Dolphins feasted on one of the easiest schedules you'll ever see, and now they face one of the toughest in the league. You saw his limitations against good defenses when they faced the Ravens in the playoffs.

I expect Henne to be starting by the end of the 2009 season.

Speaking of Miami...

There's been a lot of buzz about WR Patrick Turner in Miami in OTAs and training camp. While he was only a 3rd rounder (and at the draft many questioned him being taken that high), he looks so far to be a diamond in the rough and it's hard not to think of Colston comparisons given their similar frames. At one time Turner was considered the #1 WR prospect entering college but didn't shine at USC as they had hoped, but it does suggest that kind of talent is in there somewhere. Maybe at Miami the light has gone back on? Parcells knows how to see talent. Maybe Sparano has the courage to do what Payton did with Colston in New Orleans and this guy could be a starter right away? I'm starting to pay a lot of attention to the buzz. He only has Camarillo to overcome on the outside (they want Bess in the slot). What do you think of the noise coming out of Miami about Turner, and if you did your rankings today would you move him from where is is now?

I watch a lot of USC and Turner was always kind of a joke to me. They gave him every opportunity to become the next Dwayne Jarrett or Mike Williams and he never really stepped up. Considering that USC's roster was loaded with big time recruits, I wondered why the coaches kept trotting him out there. He finally stepped up last year and became a solid player (though not nearly as good as Jarrett and Williams were in college).

He has a good frame for a possession WR and he runs pretty well for his size. He's not explosive, but he's a pretty good route runner considering his height. I think this scouting report provides a good take on Turner:

Scouting ReportGENERAL REPORT: GRADE: 6.28

Body Structure: Turner has a tall, well-built frame with very long limbs, broad shoulders, tapered thighs and calves and very good hip flexibility. He has a frame that can carry at least another 10 pounds of bulk with no loss in explosion or quickness.

Athletic Ability: Turner generates adequate explosion coming off the snap, but has good change of direction agility and lateral movement. He maintains balance throughout his route progression and is a fluid route runner who can accelerate downfield. He shows good agility catching the ball over his head and excellent ball tracking ability to locate the ball in flight. He can run, adjust and catch with ease. He has good linear speed, but just lacks an explosive vertical burst. GRADE: 6.5

Football Sense: Turner is the type of athlete that can retain plays and translate the chalkboard room work to the football field. He is an intelligent, instinctive sort who knows how to read coverage and find the open spot in the zone. He needs minimal reps to retain and does a nice job of working with his quarterback, knowing when to break off his routes and come back for the ball when the passer is in trouble. GRADE: 6.3

Character: Turner is a good program player, well-liked by his peers and coaching staff. He is beginning to take on more of a leadership role, which is the result of gaining confidence in his ability. He is reliable, does the little extras to improve and has no known off-field issues. He always has a positive attitude, but on the field he is a no nonsense type that comes to play on every down. GRADE: 6.0

Competitiveness: Turner is a blue chip player with a blue-collar work ethic. He comes to play on every down, not giving up until the whistle. He is a physical blocker who will not hesitate to sacrifice his body in order to make the tough catch in the crowd. He maintains concentration going up for the contested ball. He shows good intensity, but keeps his emotions in check on the playing field. Whether catching the ball or blocking, Turner will always give total effort. GRADE: 6.4

Work Habits: The coaches cite his work ethic as a reason the younger players look up to Turner. He is an easygoing sort, but takes pride in his leadership role. He will put in the extra hours after practice or in the film room. He does the little extras to improve in the weight room and does everything the coaches ask. GRADE: 6.2

ATHLETIC REPORT: GRADE: 6.15

Release: Turner is more quick than fast, but he does generate enough explosiveness getting off the line and the ability to separate in the open. He has good avoidance skills and shows the hand usage to defeat the jam. It is difficult to reroute him due to his ability to fend off defenders and protect his body. His size and strength makes him consistently break through the press. He maintains good body control through his movements and is light on his feet for a player of his size. GRADE: 6.0

Acceleration: Turner is capable of moving the chains in the short area. He shows a functional burst to get under the ball and presents a nice target for the passer going over the middle. His size allows him to turn a short catch into a big gain and he knows how to shield the ball from defenders working underneath. He gets good separation on deep routes and can do this consistently. He has the stride to get under the long tosses in a hurry and displays smoothness in his route progression. He has made marked improvement tracking and locating the ball and if isolated on a linebacker or a safety, he can easily separate. Against the cornerbacks, he has the burst and strength to break arm tackles. GRADE: 5.8

Quickness: Turner is fluid getting into his routes. He shows adequate quickness coming off the ball and the body control to generate crisp stop-and-go action. Despite his size, he is very effective at taking short, quick steps rather than long striding. He runs at a good pad level and demonstrates urgency driving off the line. He might not have blazing speed, but he has the hand usage and strength to defeat the press. He might lack great explosion going vertical, but he has enough linear speed to win some foot races on deep routes. GRADE: 5.7

Route Running: Earlier in his career, Turner was more of a one-speed cut type. In 2007, he showed much better ability to vary his speed and finish his routes. He is now a much more polished route runner, quickly getting his head around to track the ball in flight. He runs tight upfield routes and has good stop-and-go action working underneath. He does a good job of eating up the defender's cushion and is capable of sinking and planting coming out of his breaks. The thing you notice on 2008 film is that Turner had a penchant for adjusting on his route so the quarterback did not have to throw a perfect pass every time. He now attacks the ball on its descent and does not wait for the pass to intersect on his routes. GRADE: 6.3

Separation Ability: Turner does a good job of eating up the cushion and building to top speed. He uses his hands to get a strong push off the defender, but is not really a dangerous vertical threat due to his lack of explosive upfield acceleration. He shows the field vision and quickness to come back for the poorly thrown ball. He has made good improvement in selling his routes to gain separation, demonstrating the sudden burst needed to get into and out of his breaks. GRADE: 6.6

Ball Concentration: Turner has a good feel for finding the sidelines and adjusting his feet to stay in-bounds. He shows good end zone awareness and field vision. He is quick to spot the soft spot in the zone and slip through the open areas on deep routes. He consistently keeps his focus going for the ball in traffic. He knows how to use his long arms and height advantage to shield the ball from the defender. He times his leaps well and showed outstanding ability on fade routes down near the goal line. GRADE: 6.5

Ball Adjustment: Turner demonstrates the athletic ability to time his leaps in order to get to the thrown pass at its high point. He has the body control to twist and adjust to the ball in flight. He is capable of looking the ball in over his shoulders and looks natural making those adjustments, showing above average flexibility and balance. His hands are soft enough to prevent him from trapping the ball. GRADE: 6.3

Leaping Ability: Turner displays above average leaping ability. Along with his height and long arms, he is very capable of going vertical for the ball. He has the power and timing skills to fight for the ball coming on a high delivery. GRADE: 6.0

Hands: Turner has strong hands, which he uses with force to defeat the press. He does a nice job of extending for the ball away from the body's framework. He plucks the ball with ease and has developed into a natural hands catcher (they appear soft). GRADE: 6.3

Run After the Catch: Turner shows just an average burst to separate. He has developed the ability to set up the defender, pushing them back on their heels with his head fakes and hip wiggle in order to compensate. He can generate the power to run through arm tackles and take the ball for long distances. He maintains his acceleration while doing a nice job of shifting his weight and sinking his hips. His balance comes in handy when he tries to avoid defenders on the run. He is a very strong runner who takes only a short time getting back to top speed after the catch. His stop-and-go precision let him elude and he keeps legs moving and shoulders squared to break tackles. GRADE: 6.4

Blocking Ability: When working at the line of scrimmage, Turner gets his hands up quickly coming out of his stance to lock on and sustain. He is an aggressive type that will face up to the competition. He could use a little more strength, but does not hesitate to pester. Working upfield, he uses his body well as a position blocker to seal off. He makes every effort to hold and maintain contact in the open and will rarely struggle to sustain vs. moving defensive backs. GRADE: 5.8

Compares To: JUSTIN GAGE, Tennessee -- What these two athletes do best is move the chains. Turner's size, reach and leaping ability is like having a swifter tight end working for the quarterback to get the ball to underneath. He will never win foot races vs. the speedy NFL corners, but his size creates mismatches, especially on the bubble screen and posts. Put him in a system that likes to take a methodical approach rather than relying on a home run to get to the end zone and Turner will bring good value to that team.

I don't think he has the athletic ability to be another Colston, but he has the potential to become a decent starter. I would consider him a lesser version of Keyshawn Johnson (reliable possession WR with a low YPC and few big plays). Given the lack of talent on Miami's roster, he could be starting for them in the near future. The buzz on him seems to be pretty positive.

 

[benm3218]

Look, I don't think Eli is a great QB. I thought he was tremendously overrated coming out of college, and I think he's incredibly overrated today. That's entirely beside the point, though- when you're a stone-cold guaranteed 5-year starter on a quality team with a proven track record of success, then you have tremendous fantasy value.

In Eli's case, you have tremendous mediocrity.

Agree. Mediocre is exactly what he is. NOT a star or a QB1. In a 2 QB league he may be a good average QB2 if you play in a 10 man or a great QB2 in a 12 man league. (can you play 2 QB's in a 12 man league?) I see SSOG's point that he is a guaranteed starter who although being mediocre is a lock for a job and mediocre points. I had Trent Edwards on my team for 6 games last year where he scored like 3 points a game or something horrible and traded for Eli without even thinking twice. Because a locked up 10 - 12 points a game and sometimes more is way better than a QB who got me 3 points.

But, just because Eli is a lock for mediocrity doesn't mean I want him on my team.

I think actually everyone probably agrees on this and we are all just expressing our opinions in different words.

 

[gianmarco]

Oh, one last thing before turning in for the night. I put this in the Hype Train thread, but it's worth posting here as well:

I offered Eddie Royal and my 2010 first-round pick for Percy Harvin in my long-time Dynasty league. I was turned down cold.



Stonewalled for now. I'll have to get more creative.

I'm not sure what part of this shocks me more...the offer or the fact that it was refused.

I Eddie Royal, but championships are won with game-changers, and Purple Haze is a game-changer. One of the major advantages Harvin will have over EzE is touchdowns, and that's a pretty important advantage. Late first-round picks are way overvalued. I try to trade mine away every year, often before the season starts. Why not use it now to trade for an asset that can help me win now and build for the future?

I think you're both overestimating Harvin and underestimating Royal. And this is coming from someone who isn't as big of a Royal lover as most others and someone who really, really likes Harvin's prospects. I think you're gonna end up happy that that offer was rejected.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I think you're both overestimating Harvin and underestimating Royal. And this is coming from someone who isn't as big of a Royal lover as most others and someone who really, really likes Harvin's prospects. I think you're gonna end up happy that that offer was rejected.

We'll see. It's easy to say I'm overestimating Harvin b/c he hasn't played yet. If you miss the boat on acquiring him, there's no going back and upping your offer after he blows up. The genie's out of the bottle.Just like Chris Johnson last year and Adrian Peterson the year before, I think there's little doubt that Purple Haze takes the league by storm as a rookie. He's a difference-maker. Like I said, I think the big difference b/w him and Royal is TDs. Harvin is going to have a considerable edge there.

 

[gianmarco]

I think you're both overestimating Harvin and underestimating Royal. And this is coming from someone who isn't as big of a Royal lover as most others and someone who really, really likes Harvin's prospects. I think you're gonna end up happy that that offer was rejected.

We'll see. It's easy to say I'm overestimating Harvin b/c he hasn't played yet. If you miss the boat on acquiring him, there's no going back and upping your offer after he blows up. The genie's out of the bottle.Just like Chris Johnson last year and Adrian Peterson the year before, I think there's little doubt that Purple Haze takes the league by storm as a rookie. He's a difference-maker. Like I said, I think the big difference b/w him and Royal is TDs. Harvin is going to have a considerable edge there.

I agree that if you truly believe in someone then you should go out and get them. I just don't think Royal is the guy to do it with because I don't think we've seen Royal's best either.And yes, Harvin may beat him in the TD department (although that isn't a given) but Royal should have a SIGNIFICANT edge in the reception department and probably in the yardage department as well.

 

[shader]

Royal was incredibly impressive last year. He looked so unbelievably polished for a rookie. Of course how much of that was:

A) Played with a gunslinger, Jay Cutler

B) Had Brandon Marshall on the other side

C) Was on a team with a terrible defense

I'm not sure...

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Royal was incredibly impressive last year. He looked so unbelievably polished for a rookie. Of course how much of that was:A) Played with a gunslinger, Jay CutlerB) Had Brandon Marshall on the other sideC) Was on a team with a terrible defenseI'm not sure...

I'm not sure either. I have a Royal as a long-term WR2 without ever becoming a fantasy monster. I think Harvin can definitely become a fantasy monster ... and that species is much harder to find and acquire than a WR2.

 

[kremenull]

Lee Evans, Josh Reed, Fast Fredie, Lynch, and eventually maybe James Hardy down?I agree the O-line is a huge question mark which is probably one of the reasons they will be using more no-huddle and shotguns. They are planning on not having much time to to throw.How many TD passes can ShEli possibly throw to Steve Siith, Nicks, Manningham, and Boss? Talk about a low floor....

Did you seriously just mention JOSH REED in a discussion of Edwards' weapons? Josh Reed has played 7 seasons, and he's never cracked 600 yards receiving (despite repeatedly being given a starting job, mostly as a result of a lack of options). His career high TD catches is... 2. He's one of the worst "starting" receivers in the league, the reason Lee Evans is one of the most over-covered receivers, and a guy whose coaches have always DESPERATELY tried to replace in the starting lineup. To be perfectly honest, he's not really great shakes as a #3, either. And after 7 years in the league, any hope of him taking a step forward is severely unfounded.Marshawn Lynch had big reception totals last year, but he averaged 6.7 yards per reception, which is (to put it mildly) pretty terrible. He's a quality "if all else fails" dump-off, but he's not a "weapon" in the passing game. Fred Jackson's 8.6 yard per reception average is more palatable, but are you really high on Edwards because his second string RB is a decent but not great option in the passing game? Also... James Hardy? Again, are you kidding me? You're listing a WR with 9 career catches (and less than 10 career yards per reception) as a possible weapon, but you're rolling your eyes derisively at Steve Smith (the exact same draft pedigree, but with 50 more catches)?Basically, Edwards has Lee Evans (a legit weapon), a poor WR3 who's been turned into arguably the worst WR2 in the league, a 1st string RB who's really only useful as a safety valve, a second string RB who's not even a significantly better receiving threat than the first stringer, and a guy with 9 career receptions. Oh, and the worst pass-blocking offensive line in the entire league. He also plays in arguably the least desirable destination for free agents for a thrifty owner.Eli's weapons are totally unproven, but they're not any worse than Edwards'. Nicks is a 1st rounder, Smith is a 2nd rounder, and Manningham is a 3rd rounder. Kevin Boss had 6 receiving TDs last season (and averages a TD for every 5 catches for his career- it's pretty silly to question how many TD passes Eli can possibly throw to him). New York is a desirable free agent destination, and the owner has showen a willingness to spend lavishly. You also conveniently "forgot" to mention Domanick Hixon, who is a legit NFL starter (although not a legit NFL #1).More importantly, though... Eli's going to be a starting QB for the next 5 years. Period, end of story, end of discussion, take it to Vegas, that's all she wrote. He's the highest paid player in the league right now, which all but guarantees him of a starting job. He's also finished 5th, 10th, 13th, and 13th in his four seasons as a starter. Even if you expect him to take a MASSIVE step back with Burress gone, he's pretty much a lock to be a top-24 fantasy QB for the next 5 years. That's his floor- guaranteed fantasy QB2 for 5 years. That's an INCREDIBLY high floor. I can name maybe 5 other fantasy QBs with a floor that high. You know what Trent Edwards' floor is? Out of the league in 2 seasons. The team has very little money invested in him, which means it's incredibly easy for them to dump him and move on to something better (whether it's a free agent like Pennington or a draft pick like Bradshaw, McCoy, or Snead). That's an incredibly LOW floor. Even if Edwards *DOES* retain the starting job for the next 5 years, his highest fantasy finish is QB23 (while Eli's lowest is QB13, a full 10 spots higher). So yeah, Edwards floor is absurdly low compared to Eli's.Look, I don't think Eli is a great QB. I thought he was tremendously overrated coming out of college, and I think he's incredibly overrated today. That's entirely beside the point, though- when you're a stone-cold guaranteed 5-year starter on a quality team with a proven track record of success, then you have tremendous fantasy value.

WOW! The way SSOG kills Edwards here you'd think he stole something from him. I have to disagree with at least one premise here though - I believe that the Bills weapons are superior to the Giants in the passing game.If you start with the top two options on the Bills, T.O. and Lee Evans, both of these guys are much better than anything the Giants have as targets. Given these weapons at his disposal, even a marginal QB can have some success as he simply has to get the ball out of his hands on a consistent basis as these guys should create open opportunities not only for themselves, but when T.O. and/or Evans draw considerable attention from the defense, this will also open up the field for the secondary options like Reed, Parrish, Johnson, the RBs, and let's not forget, their TEs. Nelson and Fine will also be involved as in breaking down Trent Edwards, I see a QB who is pretty adept at scanning the entire field as he is able to go through his progressions pretty quickly and will thus spread the ball around, finding the open receiver. But to me, it all starts with T.O. and Evans opening up the field for everyone else. Whereas, the Giants don't have any major threats on the outside to really worry defenses. I don't see anyone commanding a double-team, and if these guys aren't able to consistently shake press coverage, then Eli's completion percentage could tumble backwards a bit, and he has never been all that great in this area, although he showed improvement last year in connecting on 60.3% of his attempts. But hidden among his stats last year, Eli connected on only 54.6% of his passes in the month of December. Did they not lose a certain tall, rangy, clutch WR about this same time? Coincidence? I'm thinking no. Sure, Edwards does have quite a bit to prove to the fantasy world, but more importantly to the Bills' braintrust, but I believe that he is setup very well for this to be a very nice season for him. In one of my early dynasty drafts this offseason, I targeted this guy (Edwards) as I knew I could get him very late and wanted to fill up at other positions. I have him, JaMarcus, and Culpepper as my active QBs. In that it is a developmental dynasty league where owners can roster collegiate players, I was the only owner to select a current college QB as I'm certainly not married to either of my current QBs, including Edwards. And this league gives 6 pts per pass TD.

 

[kremenull]

Speaking of Henne... Can anyone give me a few thought son him? Is he the man when Pennington leaves or goes down or is that QB not currently on their roster?

He's the heir apparent. Pennington is only signed thru this season, and the Dolphins have made it pretty clear that Henne is the 2010 starter. Penny would need another miracle season, and I don't see that happening considering his injury history and strength of schedule. He and the Dolphins feasted on one of the easiest schedules you'll ever see, and now they face one of the toughest in the league. You saw his limitations against good defenses when they faced the Ravens in the playoffs.

I expect Henne to be starting by the end of the 2009 season.

Speaking of Miami...

There's been a lot of buzz about WR Patrick Turner in Miami in OTAs and training camp. While he was only a 3rd rounder (and at the draft many questioned him being taken that high), he looks so far to be a diamond in the rough and it's hard not to think of Colston comparisons given their similar frames. At one time Turner was considered the #1 WR prospect entering college but didn't shine at USC as they had hoped, but it does suggest that kind of talent is in there somewhere. Maybe at Miami the light has gone back on? Parcells knows how to see talent. Maybe Sparano has the courage to do what Payton did with Colston in New Orleans and this guy could be a starter right away? I'm starting to pay a lot of attention to the buzz. He only has Camarillo to overcome on the outside (they want Bess in the slot). What do you think of the noise coming out of Miami about Turner, and if you did your rankings today would you move him from where is is now?

I watch a lot of USC and Turner was always kind of a joke to me. They gave him every opportunity to become the next Dwayne Jarrett or Mike Williams and he never really stepped up. Considering that USC's roster was loaded with big time recruits, I wondered why the coaches kept trotting him out there. He finally stepped up last year and became a solid player (though not nearly as good as Jarrett and Williams were in college).

He has a good frame for a possession WR and he runs pretty well for his size. He's not explosive, but he's a pretty good route runner considering his height. I think this scouting report provides a good take on Turner:

Scouting ReportGENERAL REPORT: GRADE: 6.28

Body Structure: Turner has a tall, well-built frame with very long limbs, broad shoulders, tapered thighs and calves and very good hip flexibility. He has a frame that can carry at least another 10 pounds of bulk with no loss in explosion or quickness.

Athletic Ability: Turner generates adequate explosion coming off the snap, but has good change of direction agility and lateral movement. He maintains balance throughout his route progression and is a fluid route runner who can accelerate downfield. He shows good agility catching the ball over his head and excellent ball tracking ability to locate the ball in flight. He can run, adjust and catch with ease. He has good linear speed, but just lacks an explosive vertical burst. GRADE: 6.5

Football Sense: Turner is the type of athlete that can retain plays and translate the chalkboard room work to the football field. He is an intelligent, instinctive sort who knows how to read coverage and find the open spot in the zone. He needs minimal reps to retain and does a nice job of working with his quarterback, knowing when to break off his routes and come back for the ball when the passer is in trouble. GRADE: 6.3

Character: Turner is a good program player, well-liked by his peers and coaching staff. He is beginning to take on more of a leadership role, which is the result of gaining confidence in his ability. He is reliable, does the little extras to improve and has no known off-field issues. He always has a positive attitude, but on the field he is a no nonsense type that comes to play on every down. GRADE: 6.0

Competitiveness: Turner is a blue chip player with a blue-collar work ethic. He comes to play on every down, not giving up until the whistle. He is a physical blocker who will not hesitate to sacrifice his body in order to make the tough catch in the crowd. He maintains concentration going up for the contested ball. He shows good intensity, but keeps his emotions in check on the playing field. Whether catching the ball or blocking, Turner will always give total effort. GRADE: 6.4

Work Habits: The coaches cite his work ethic as a reason the younger players look up to Turner. He is an easygoing sort, but takes pride in his leadership role. He will put in the extra hours after practice or in the film room. He does the little extras to improve in the weight room and does everything the coaches ask. GRADE: 6.2

ATHLETIC REPORT: GRADE: 6.15

Release: Turner is more quick than fast, but he does generate enough explosiveness getting off the line and the ability to separate in the open. He has good avoidance skills and shows the hand usage to defeat the jam. It is difficult to reroute him due to his ability to fend off defenders and protect his body. His size and strength makes him consistently break through the press. He maintains good body control through his movements and is light on his feet for a player of his size. GRADE: 6.0

Acceleration: Turner is capable of moving the chains in the short area. He shows a functional burst to get under the ball and presents a nice target for the passer going over the middle. His size allows him to turn a short catch into a big gain and he knows how to shield the ball from defenders working underneath. He gets good separation on deep routes and can do this consistently. He has the stride to get under the long tosses in a hurry and displays smoothness in his route progression. He has made marked improvement tracking and locating the ball and if isolated on a linebacker or a safety, he can easily separate. Against the cornerbacks, he has the burst and strength to break arm tackles. GRADE: 5.8

Quickness: Turner is fluid getting into his routes. He shows adequate quickness coming off the ball and the body control to generate crisp stop-and-go action. Despite his size, he is very effective at taking short, quick steps rather than long striding. He runs at a good pad level and demonstrates urgency driving off the line. He might not have blazing speed, but he has the hand usage and strength to defeat the press. He might lack great explosion going vertical, but he has enough linear speed to win some foot races on deep routes. GRADE: 5.7

Route Running: Earlier in his career, Turner was more of a one-speed cut type. In 2007, he showed much better ability to vary his speed and finish his routes. He is now a much more polished route runner, quickly getting his head around to track the ball in flight. He runs tight upfield routes and has good stop-and-go action working underneath. He does a good job of eating up the defender's cushion and is capable of sinking and planting coming out of his breaks. The thing you notice on 2008 film is that Turner had a penchant for adjusting on his route so the quarterback did not have to throw a perfect pass every time. He now attacks the ball on its descent and does not wait for the pass to intersect on his routes. GRADE: 6.3

Separation Ability: Turner does a good job of eating up the cushion and building to top speed. He uses his hands to get a strong push off the defender, but is not really a dangerous vertical threat due to his lack of explosive upfield acceleration. He shows the field vision and quickness to come back for the poorly thrown ball. He has made good improvement in selling his routes to gain separation, demonstrating the sudden burst needed to get into and out of his breaks. GRADE: 6.6

Ball Concentration: Turner has a good feel for finding the sidelines and adjusting his feet to stay in-bounds. He shows good end zone awareness and field vision. He is quick to spot the soft spot in the zone and slip through the open areas on deep routes. He consistently keeps his focus going for the ball in traffic. He knows how to use his long arms and height advantage to shield the ball from the defender. He times his leaps well and showed outstanding ability on fade routes down near the goal line. GRADE: 6.5

Ball Adjustment: Turner demonstrates the athletic ability to time his leaps in order to get to the thrown pass at its high point. He has the body control to twist and adjust to the ball in flight. He is capable of looking the ball in over his shoulders and looks natural making those adjustments, showing above average flexibility and balance. His hands are soft enough to prevent him from trapping the ball. GRADE: 6.3

Leaping Ability: Turner displays above average leaping ability. Along with his height and long arms, he is very capable of going vertical for the ball. He has the power and timing skills to fight for the ball coming on a high delivery. GRADE: 6.0

Hands: Turner has strong hands, which he uses with force to defeat the press. He does a nice job of extending for the ball away from the body's framework. He plucks the ball with ease and has developed into a natural hands catcher (they appear soft). GRADE: 6.3

Run After the Catch: Turner shows just an average burst to separate. He has developed the ability to set up the defender, pushing them back on their heels with his head fakes and hip wiggle in order to compensate. He can generate the power to run through arm tackles and take the ball for long distances. He maintains his acceleration while doing a nice job of shifting his weight and sinking his hips. His balance comes in handy when he tries to avoid defenders on the run. He is a very strong runner who takes only a short time getting back to top speed after the catch. His stop-and-go precision let him elude and he keeps legs moving and shoulders squared to break tackles. GRADE: 6.4

Blocking Ability: When working at the line of scrimmage, Turner gets his hands up quickly coming out of his stance to lock on and sustain. He is an aggressive type that will face up to the competition. He could use a little more strength, but does not hesitate to pester. Working upfield, he uses his body well as a position blocker to seal off. He makes every effort to hold and maintain contact in the open and will rarely struggle to sustain vs. moving defensive backs. GRADE: 5.8

Compares To: JUSTIN GAGE, Tennessee -- What these two athletes do best is move the chains. Turner's size, reach and leaping ability is like having a swifter tight end working for the quarterback to get the ball to underneath. He will never win foot races vs. the speedy NFL corners, but his size creates mismatches, especially on the bubble screen and posts. Put him in a system that likes to take a methodical approach rather than relying on a home run to get to the end zone and Turner will bring good value to that team.

I don't think he has the athletic ability to be another Colston, but he has the potential to become a decent starter. I would consider him a lesser version of Keyshawn Johnson (reliable possession WR with a low YPC and few big plays). Given the lack of talent on Miami's roster, he could be starting for them in the near future. The buzz on him seems to be pretty positive.

I never could get a handle on all this Grade scale stuff when evaluating prospects. So who/what is the benchmark for what prospects are being measured against? And is the benchmark with regards to a player at the prospects position? Like for WRs, who/what is the benchmark for athletic ability? Randy Moss? Calvin? Work habits, Rice? 6.5 out of what? 10? I like the written description part, but these grades don't have relevance, IMO.

My take on Turner is that he could be a nice player, along the lines of a Marty Booker. Or hey, who knows, maybe he kicks it into gear and works very hard and becomes a Vincent Jackson. He has similar size/speed ratio. Jackson has worked very hard to get into prime physical condition and appears to have improved his speed a bit because of it (conditioning). He's worth a flyer where he is currently being taken, late 3rd Rd in rookie drafts a month or two ago, but probably late 2nd to early 3rd now (12 teams).

 

[Fear & Loathing]

What are your thoughts about St. Louis' No. 2 WR this season and beyond? Do you prefer Burton or Robinson?

Rotoworld's Evan Silva -- a long-time Rams fan -- weighed in on this subject in today's Pancake Blocks blog:

Who will be the Rams' No. 2 Wideout?

I previewed the biggest position battles around the league in Friday's column. To the attentive readers of this blog and the Rotoworld News page, the contents of the article might be considered common knowledge.

Pancake Blocks is here to take you more in-depth with articles on players like Justin Forsett and Devin Thomas. We already know that Adrian Peterson is a good running back, Peyton Manning has the arm strength to succeed at the NFL level, and Larry Fitzgerald has reliable hands.

"Donnie Football" Avery is the Rams' clear-cut No. 1 wide receiver. After him, St. Louis is auditioning three wideouts with interesting resumes for the No. 2 spot. Let's have a look.

1. Keenan Burton - A possession receiver with mid-4.5s speed, Burton was the Rams' fourth-round draft pick two Aprils ago. He battled knee problems for most of his first year, but entered the offseason as the favorite to start opposite Avery. That appears to have changed, as a hamstring injury kept Burton sidelined all spring and he was no longer running with the first team at the outset of training camp. In theory, Burton would be a good fit for new coordinator Pat Shurmur's West Coast offense as a nice-sized (6'0/202) weapon with good hands and chain-moving potential. But Burton is sitting on 13 career catches with an injury-prone label and looks to be headed south on the depth chart.

2. Laurent Robinson - A deep threat with legitimate mid-4.3s speed and over-the-shoulder catching ability, Robinson was poised to start over Michael Jenkins in Atlanta last year before injuries ruined his season. The now-receiver needy Falcons gave up on Robinson fairly quickly despite his promising 37-catch rookie year and shipped him to St. Louis in April for substantial moves up in two rounds of the draft. Robinson practiced with the first team to open training camp. While he too must show durability, Robinson gives the Rams more options than Burton. He is bigger (6'2/194), much faster, and is the pick of the new coaching staff.

3. Ronald Curry - Another trade acquisition, Curry arrived in St. Louis just before camp in a deal with the Lions. Curry slumped badly in Oakland last season, forcing the Raiders to bench him and give seventh-round rookie Chaz Schilens a large bump in playing time. Curry, 30, is the elder statesman of the group but is familiar with the concepts of the West Coast offense and caught 117 passes from 2006-2007 despite playing mostly as a slot receiver. That's Curry's best position, and where he figures to fit in here if he shows good hands in practice and makes the final roster.

With Steven Jackson as the centerpiece, the Rams are intent on running a smash-mouth run-first offense as Marc Bulger and company adjust to Shurmur's system. That limits the upside of all their receivers, Avery included. But the winner of this competition could be good for 50-60 grabs and spot start use in fantasy. It's still early, but Robinson has moved to the forefront and is worth drafting in all leagues.

 

[shader]

I wanted to make the regulars of this thread aware of a new Dynasty League being started. I spoke with Fear & Loathing and we want to use his format for dynasty leagues.

This includes having the fantasy playoffs occur in the actual NFL playoffs.

Now I know this isn't the "norm", but aren't you guys ready for a new challenge, instead of using the info you learned in this thread and on footballguys to beat up your friends that suck at fantasy football anyway?

This thread has become perhaps one of the best dynasty resources on the web, and now I encourage all the regulars to take part in this league.

I think a league with guys like F&L, SSOG, EBF and the other regular experts on this thread would be

A) Incredibly challenging

B) Incredibly fun

What more could you ask for in a dynasty league?

We're looking for ideally 12 teams.

So far we have

1)Fear & Loathing

2)Shader

3)benm3218

4)kremenull

5)Neo

Who else wants in?

 

[benm3218]

I wanted to make the regulars of this thread aware of a new Dynasty League being started. I spoke with Fear & Loathing and we want to use his format for dynasty leagues.This includes having the fantasy playoffs occur in the actual NFL playoffs.Now I know this isn't the "norm", but aren't you guys ready for a new challenge, instead of using the info you learned in this thread and on footballguys to beat up your friends that suck at fantasy football anyway?This thread has become perhaps one of the best dynasty resources on the web, and now I encourage all the regulars to take part in this league.I think a league with guys like F&L, SSOG, EBF and the other regular experts on this thread would beA) Incredibly challengingB) Incredibly funWhat more could you ask for in a dynasty league?We're looking for ideally 12 teams.So far we have1)Fear & Loathing2)Shader3)benm3218Who else wants in?

I want Kremenell in on it. He has strong opinions and it would be fun to put them to the test in the dynasty world.

 

[SSOG]

I'm down on Lynch in Dynasty leagues because Fred Jackson is a very good football player, and the Bills just signed him for four years. His presence is going to ensure that Lynch's production/touches are inconsistent on a weekly basis. He's good buy-low if his owner is worried about the knucklehead factor and a poor O-Line, especially if the price is a second-round pick. But he's definitely a guy for whom I wouldn't pay full price.

Just posting to say that this is crazy talk, to me. Fred Jackson broke onto the scene last year with over half as many carries as Lynch had... yet Lynch's touches still remained stone-cold consistent. He 21, 20, 27, 23, 15, 23, 18, 12, 14, 33, 25, 17, 14, and 24 touches (he also had 11 touches before he got injured and lost for the season). Sure, his touches dipped to 12 and 14 in the middle of the season... but he followed that up with 33 touches (by far the highest of the season), and then tacked on his 3rd-highest touch game for good measure (25). Jackson, on the other hand, had 10+ carries 5 times last season. One of those came in the game that Lynch sat out. Another came in the game Lynch left early. In the remaining 3 games that Jackson had 10+ carries, Lynch posted 21, 18, and 33 touches- obviously he wasn't suffering from Buffalo's decision to give Jackson the ball. In the only three games where Lynch had 15 or fewer touches, Fred Jackson had 2 carries (his lowest total of the season), 4 carries (his second lowest total of the season), and 7 carries.What does all this mean? Not only have Marshawn Lynch's touches been incredibly consistent, but the number of carries Fred Jackson sees correlates very strongly to the number of touches Marshawn Lynch has. When Lynch sets season highs in touches, Jackson sets season highs in carries. When Lynch sets season lows in touches, Jackson sets season lows in carries. Marshawn Lynch isn't losing touches to Fred Jackson.

Furthermore, I play in a yardage-heavy league. Under our scoring system, in his two years as a starter, Lynch has finished as RB12 (in 15 games) and RB12 (in 13 games). He's 23, he's got a track record of success, and he's one of the most consistent RBs in the entire league. Bizarrely enough, trying to trade Marshawn Lynch seems to be turning me from a strong believer that Marshawn Lynch was overrated... to a strong believer that Marshawn Lynch is ludicrously underrated. His line is terrible, but his line has always been terrible and he's done nothing but produce, season in and season out. His backup is talented, but his backup has always been talented and he's done nothing but produce, game in and game out. His touches are consistent, his production is consistent, and he's 23 years old (almost a full year younger than current rookie Shonn Green). The Bills recently showed their commitment to Fred Jackson, but the Bills have also repeatedly remained committed to Lynch when discussing him and his role in the offense. If the coaches aren't really committed to Lynch, then worst case scenario is Lynch leaves Buffalo... but that's not exactly much of a negative, now is it? The only downside I can see to Lynch as an awesome RB2 for the next 6 years is the knucklehead factor... but I've never gotten that much of a knucklehead vibe from Lynch, his two incidents notwithstanding.

Look, I don't think Eli is a great QB. I thought he was tremendously overrated coming out of college, and I think he's incredibly overrated today. That's entirely beside the point, though- when you're a stone-cold guaranteed 5-year starter on a quality team with a proven track record of success, then you have tremendous fantasy value.

In Eli's case, you have tremendous mediocrity.

Consistency can still be valuable. I only have so many roster spots to devote to QBs- a guy like Eli guarantees you that, no matter how many risks or fliers you take, you'll always have someone to fall back on in case of byes or injuries. He's a terrible option as a starter, but if you were forced to start a backup QB, few could be expected to be as productive as Eli. Most of all, his value won't depreciate. He's going to be worth as much 3 years from today as he is today, which means you can essentially move him at full price any time you want. If he's no longer helpful for your team, you can get good value in return.When I say "tremendous value", I'm not talking about a high first round draft pick, here, I'm just saying that Eli can fill a very valuable role on your fantasy team that more than justifies his cost (especially when you consider you'll recoup his cost when you turn around and trade him away later in his career). He's a nice stable currency like the US Dollar for you to rely on while you're busy investing in volatile third world markets. The strongest portfolio is a diversified portfolio.

Edit: Besides, I'm not at all convinced that Edwards' ceiling is significantly higher than Manning's. Would I take Eli over Sanchez? No way- Sanchez's ceiling is way above Eli's. But Edwards? Significantly more risk for a marginally higher payout? No thanks.

 

[SSOG]

WOW! The way SSOG kills Edwards here you'd think he stole something from him. I have to disagree with at least one premise here though - I believe that the Bills weapons are superior to the Giants in the passing game.If you start with the top two options on the Bills, T.O. and Lee Evans, both of these guys are much better than anything the Giants have as targets. Given these weapons at his disposal, even a marginal QB can have some success as he simply has to get the ball out of his hands on a consistent basis as these guys should create open opportunities not only for themselves, but when T.O. and/or Evans draw considerable attention from the defense, this will also open up the field for the secondary options like Reed, Parrish, Johnson, the RBs, and let's not forget, their TEs. Nelson and Fine will also be involved as in breaking down Trent Edwards, I see a QB who is pretty adept at scanning the entire field as he is able to go through his progressions pretty quickly and will thus spread the ball around, finding the open receiver. But to me, it all starts with T.O. and Evans opening up the field for everyone else. Whereas, the Giants don't have any major threats on the outside to really worry defenses. I don't see anyone commanding a double-team, and if these guys aren't able to consistently shake press coverage, then Eli's completion percentage could tumble backwards a bit, and he has never been all that great in this area, although he showed improvement last year in connecting on 60.3% of his attempts. But hidden among his stats last year, Eli connected on only 54.6% of his passes in the month of December. Did they not lose a certain tall, rangy, clutch WR about this same time? Coincidence? I'm thinking no. Sure, Edwards does have quite a bit to prove to the fantasy world, but more importantly to the Bills' braintrust, but I believe that he is setup very well for this to be a very nice season for him. In one of my early dynasty drafts this offseason, I targeted this guy (Edwards) as I knew I could get him very late and wanted to fill up at other positions. I have him, JaMarcus, and Culpepper as my active QBs. In that it is a developmental dynasty league where owners can roster collegiate players, I was the only owner to select a current college QB as I'm certainly not married to either of my current QBs, including Edwards. And this league gives 6 pts per pass TD.

I was talking about Edwards' and Manning's values going forward. While Owens helps Edwards' value this year, that's hardly a long-term consideration. Owens is 36 and has already lost a step- he won't even be the Owens of old THIS YEAR, to say nothing of next year, the year after, or the year after that. I think, from next year on, the Bills weapons look comparable to the Giants weapons (with Evans being the clear-cut best WR on either team, but with Giants probably having the 2nd and 3rd best receivers on either team, as well as the ability to more easily lure in attractive free agents).

 

[kremenull]

I wanted to make the regulars of this thread aware of a new Dynasty League being started. I spoke with Fear & Loathing and we want to use his format for dynasty leagues.This includes having the fantasy playoffs occur in the actual NFL playoffs.Now I know this isn't the "norm", but aren't you guys ready for a new challenge, instead of using the info you learned in this thread and on footballguys to beat up your friends that suck at fantasy football anyway?This thread has become perhaps one of the best dynasty resources on the web, and now I encourage all the regulars to take part in this league.I think a league with guys like F&L, SSOG, EBF and the other regular experts on this thread would beA) Incredibly challengingB) Incredibly funWhat more could you ask for in a dynasty league?We're looking for ideally 12 teams.So far we have1)Fear & Loathing2)Shader3)benm3218Who else wants in?

I want Kremenell in on it. He has strong opinions and it would be fun to put them to the test in the dynasty world.

If it's 10 starters, I'm in.....

 

[Burning Sensation]

I wanted to make the regulars of this thread aware of a new Dynasty League being started. I spoke with Fear & Loathing and we want to use his format for dynasty leagues.

This includes having the fantasy playoffs occur in the actual NFL playoffs.

Now I know this isn't the "norm", but aren't you guys ready for a new challenge, instead of using the info you learned in this thread and on footballguys to beat up your friends that suck at fantasy football anyway?

This thread has become perhaps one of the best dynasty resources on the web, and now I encourage all the regulars to take part in this league.

I think a league with guys like F&L, SSOG, EBF and the other regular experts on this thread would be

A) Incredibly challenging

B) Incredibly fun

What more could you ask for in a dynasty league?

We're looking for ideally 12 teams.

So far we have

1)Fear & Loathing

2)Shader

3)benm3218

Who else wants in?

Good thing about being in a league with these guys is you could get Slaton in the 9th or 10th round.With the 1.2 EBF selects...Rashard Mendenhall

With the 2.3 pick, F&L selects...Percy Harvin

With pick 4.7 SSOG is thinking of grabbing Slaton, but decides against it and selects .......Terrell Davis!!!

Just messing around with you guys.

 

[SSOG]

I wanted to make the regulars of this thread aware of a new Dynasty League being started. I spoke with Fear & Loathing and we want to use his format for dynasty leagues.This includes having the fantasy playoffs occur in the actual NFL playoffs.Now I know this isn't the "norm", but aren't you guys ready for a new challenge, instead of using the info you learned in this thread and on footballguys to beat up your friends that suck at fantasy football anyway?This thread has become perhaps one of the best dynasty resources on the web, and now I encourage all the regulars to take part in this league.I think a league with guys like F&L, SSOG, EBF and the other regular experts on this thread would beA) Incredibly challengingB) Incredibly funWhat more could you ask for in a dynasty league?We're looking for ideally 12 teams.So far we have1)Fear & Loathing2)Shader3)benm3218Who else wants in?

I appreciate the offer, but I'm not looking to add to my FF workload right now (and I'd go nuts sharing a league with F&L- one guy who thinks like me is enough, thank you very much).Besides, I would like to humbly suggest that there's a pretty large chasm between "regularly loud and opinionated contributor" and "regular expert".

 

[shader]

I wanted to make the regulars of this thread aware of a new Dynasty League being started. I spoke with Fear & Loathing and we want to use his format for dynasty leagues.This includes having the fantasy playoffs occur in the actual NFL playoffs.Now I know this isn't the "norm", but aren't you guys ready for a new challenge, instead of using the info you learned in this thread and on footballguys to beat up your friends that suck at fantasy football anyway?This thread has become perhaps one of the best dynasty resources on the web, and now I encourage all the regulars to take part in this league.I think a league with guys like F&L, SSOG, EBF and the other regular experts on this thread would beA) Incredibly challengingB) Incredibly funWhat more could you ask for in a dynasty league?We're looking for ideally 12 teams.So far we have1)Fear & Loathing2)Shader3)benm3218Who else wants in?

I want Kremenell in on it. He has strong opinions and it would be fun to put them to the test in the dynasty world.

If it's 10 starters, I'm in.....

Definetely ten starters at least.

 

[kremenull]

What are your thoughts about St. Louis' No. 2 WR this season and beyond? Do you prefer Burton or Robinson?

Rotoworld's Evan Silva -- a long-time Rams fan -- weighed in on this subject in today's Pancake Blocks blog:Who will be the Rams' No. 2 Wideout?

I previewed the biggest position battles around the league in Friday's column. To the attentive readers of this blog and the Rotoworld News page, the contents of the article might be considered common knowledge.

Pancake Blocks is here to take you more in-depth with articles on players like Justin Forsett and Devin Thomas. We already know that Adrian Peterson is a good running back, Peyton Manning has the arm strength to succeed at the NFL level, and Larry Fitzgerald has reliable hands.

"Donnie Football" Avery is the Rams' clear-cut No. 1 wide receiver. After him, St. Louis is auditioning three wideouts with interesting resumes for the No. 2 spot. Let's have a look.

1. Keenan Burton - A possession receiver with mid-4.5s speed, Burton was the Rams' fourth-round draft pick two Aprils ago. He battled knee problems for most of his first year, but entered the offseason as the favorite to start opposite Avery. That appears to have changed, as a hamstring injury kept Burton sidelined all spring and he was no longer running with the first team at the outset of training camp. In theory, Burton would be a good fit for new coordinator Pat Shurmur's West Coast offense as a nice-sized (6'0/202) weapon with good hands and chain-moving potential. But Burton is sitting on 13 career catches with an injury-prone label and looks to be headed south on the depth chart.

2. Laurent Robinson - A deep threat with legitimate mid-4.3s speed and over-the-shoulder catching ability, Robinson was poised to start over Michael Jenkins in Atlanta last year before injuries ruined his season. The now-receiver needy Falcons gave up on Robinson fairly quickly despite his promising 37-catch rookie year and shipped him to St. Louis in April for substantial moves up in two rounds of the draft. Robinson practiced with the first team to open training camp. While he too must show durability, Robinson gives the Rams more options than Burton. He is bigger (6'2/194), much faster, and is the pick of the new coaching staff.

3. Ronald Curry - Another trade acquisition, Curry arrived in St. Louis just before camp in a deal with the Lions. Curry slumped badly in Oakland last season, forcing the Raiders to bench him and give seventh-round rookie Chaz Schilens a large bump in playing time. Curry, 30, is the elder statesman of the group but is familiar with the concepts of the West Coast offense and caught 117 passes from 2006-2007 despite playing mostly as a slot receiver. That's Curry's best position, and where he figures to fit in here if he shows good hands in practice and makes the final roster.

With Steven Jackson as the centerpiece, the Rams are intent on running a smash-mouth run-first offense as Marc Bulger and company adjust to Shurmur's system. That limits the upside of all their receivers, Avery included. But the winner of this competition could be good for 50-60 grabs and spot start use in fantasy. It's still early, but Robinson has moved to the forefront and is worth drafting in all leagues.

It should be an interesting battle between the two young ones, Curry is pretty much worthless in dynasty. Now the Rams have to decide when to turn the page on Bulger and bring in their QBoF and they'll likely know if they have a true WR#1 on their roster after this season. I'm not so sure that they do.......Paging Arrelious or Dez to the podium, St. Louis is on the clock......

 

[benm3218]

What are your thoughts about St. Louis' No. 2 WR this season and beyond? Do you prefer Burton or Robinson?

Rotoworld's Evan Silva -- a long-time Rams fan -- weighed in on this subject in today's Pancake Blocks blog:Who will be the Rams' No. 2 Wideout?

I previewed the biggest position battles around the league in Friday's column. To the attentive readers of this blog and the Rotoworld News page, the contents of the article might be considered common knowledge.

Pancake Blocks is here to take you more in-depth with articles on players like Justin Forsett and Devin Thomas. We already know that Adrian Peterson is a good running back, Peyton Manning has the arm strength to succeed at the NFL level, and Larry Fitzgerald has reliable hands.

"Donnie Football" Avery is the Rams' clear-cut No. 1 wide receiver. After him, St. Louis is auditioning three wideouts with interesting resumes for the No. 2 spot. Let's have a look.

1. Keenan Burton - A possession receiver with mid-4.5s speed, Burton was the Rams' fourth-round draft pick two Aprils ago. He battled knee problems for most of his first year, but entered the offseason as the favorite to start opposite Avery. That appears to have changed, as a hamstring injury kept Burton sidelined all spring and he was no longer running with the first team at the outset of training camp. In theory, Burton would be a good fit for new coordinator Pat Shurmur's West Coast offense as a nice-sized (6'0/202) weapon with good hands and chain-moving potential. But Burton is sitting on 13 career catches with an injury-prone label and looks to be headed south on the depth chart.

2. Laurent Robinson - A deep threat with legitimate mid-4.3s speed and over-the-shoulder catching ability, Robinson was poised to start over Michael Jenkins in Atlanta last year before injuries ruined his season. The now-receiver needy Falcons gave up on Robinson fairly quickly despite his promising 37-catch rookie year and shipped him to St. Louis in April for substantial moves up in two rounds of the draft. Robinson practiced with the first team to open training camp. While he too must show durability, Robinson gives the Rams more options than Burton. He is bigger (6'2/194), much faster, and is the pick of the new coaching staff.

3. Ronald Curry - Another trade acquisition, Curry arrived in St. Louis just before camp in a deal with the Lions. Curry slumped badly in Oakland last season, forcing the Raiders to bench him and give seventh-round rookie Chaz Schilens a large bump in playing time. Curry, 30, is the elder statesman of the group but is familiar with the concepts of the West Coast offense and caught 117 passes from 2006-2007 despite playing mostly as a slot receiver. That's Curry's best position, and where he figures to fit in here if he shows good hands in practice and makes the final roster.

With Steven Jackson as the centerpiece, the Rams are intent on running a smash-mouth run-first offense as Marc Bulger and company adjust to Shurmur's system. That limits the upside of all their receivers, Avery included. But the winner of this competition could be good for 50-60 grabs and spot start use in fantasy. It's still early, but Robinson has moved to the forefront and is worth drafting in all leagues.

It should be an interesting battle between the two young ones, Curry is pretty much worthless in dynasty. Now the Rams have to decide when to turn the page on Bulger and bring in their QBoF and they'll likely know if they have a true WR#1 on their roster after this season. I'm not so sure that they do.......Paging Arrelious or Dez to the podium, St. Louis is on the clock......

What the heck happened to Bulger? He was fantasy gold... Sad to see a player like that just crap out... Bulger was a good QB and got a huge contract then immediately crapped out. It would suck to be a Rams fan.

 

[kremenull]

I wanted to make the regulars of this thread aware of a new Dynasty League being started. I spoke with Fear & Loathing and we want to use his format for dynasty leagues.This includes having the fantasy playoffs occur in the actual NFL playoffs.Now I know this isn't the "norm", but aren't you guys ready for a new challenge, instead of using the info you learned in this thread and on footballguys to beat up your friends that suck at fantasy football anyway?This thread has become perhaps one of the best dynasty resources on the web, and now I encourage all the regulars to take part in this league.I think a league with guys like F&L, SSOG, EBF and the other regular experts on this thread would beA) Incredibly challengingB) Incredibly funWhat more could you ask for in a dynasty league?We're looking for ideally 12 teams.So far we have1)Fear & Loathing2)Shader3)benm3218Who else wants in?

I appreciate the offer, but I'm not looking to add to my FF workload right now (and I'd go nuts sharing a league with F&L- one guy who thinks like me is enough, thank you very much).Besides, I would like to humbly suggest that there's a pretty large chasm between "regularly loud and opinionated contributor" and "regular expert".

Awwwwww.....Was hoping SSOG was in here so I could unleash my dawgs on his squad and leave his team sprawled out all across the playing field like a carcass ravaged by a pack of frothing hyenas......DON'T BE SKAAAIIIIIRD! We all have a ton of leagues, this is for the pride of the thread. Step Up Yo Game, Pal!!!!!

 

[Burning Sensation]

What are your thoughts about St. Louis' No. 2 WR this season and beyond? Do you prefer Burton or Robinson?

Rotoworld's Evan Silva -- a long-time Rams fan -- weighed in on this subject in today's Pancake Blocks blog:Who will be the Rams' No. 2 Wideout?

I previewed the biggest position battles around the league in Friday's column. To the attentive readers of this blog and the Rotoworld News page, the contents of the article might be considered common knowledge.

Pancake Blocks is here to take you more in-depth with articles on players like Justin Forsett and Devin Thomas. We already know that Adrian Peterson is a good running back, Peyton Manning has the arm strength to succeed at the NFL level, and Larry Fitzgerald has reliable hands.

"Donnie Football" Avery is the Rams' clear-cut No. 1 wide receiver. After him, St. Louis is auditioning three wideouts with interesting resumes for the No. 2 spot. Let's have a look.

1. Keenan Burton - A possession receiver with mid-4.5s speed, Burton was the Rams' fourth-round draft pick two Aprils ago. He battled knee problems for most of his first year, but entered the offseason as the favorite to start opposite Avery. That appears to have changed, as a hamstring injury kept Burton sidelined all spring and he was no longer running with the first team at the outset of training camp. In theory, Burton would be a good fit for new coordinator Pat Shurmur's West Coast offense as a nice-sized (6'0/202) weapon with good hands and chain-moving potential. But Burton is sitting on 13 career catches with an injury-prone label and looks to be headed south on the depth chart.

2. Laurent Robinson - A deep threat with legitimate mid-4.3s speed and over-the-shoulder catching ability, Robinson was poised to start over Michael Jenkins in Atlanta last year before injuries ruined his season. The now-receiver needy Falcons gave up on Robinson fairly quickly despite his promising 37-catch rookie year and shipped him to St. Louis in April for substantial moves up in two rounds of the draft. Robinson practiced with the first team to open training camp. While he too must show durability, Robinson gives the Rams more options than Burton. He is bigger (6'2/194), much faster, and is the pick of the new coaching staff.

3. Ronald Curry - Another trade acquisition, Curry arrived in St. Louis just before camp in a deal with the Lions. Curry slumped badly in Oakland last season, forcing the Raiders to bench him and give seventh-round rookie Chaz Schilens a large bump in playing time. Curry, 30, is the elder statesman of the group but is familiar with the concepts of the West Coast offense and caught 117 passes from 2006-2007 despite playing mostly as a slot receiver. That's Curry's best position, and where he figures to fit in here if he shows good hands in practice and makes the final roster.

With Steven Jackson as the centerpiece, the Rams are intent on running a smash-mouth run-first offense as Marc Bulger and company adjust to Shurmur's system. That limits the upside of all their receivers, Avery included. But the winner of this competition could be good for 50-60 grabs and spot start use in fantasy. It's still early, but Robinson has moved to the forefront and is worth drafting in all leagues.

It should be an interesting battle between the two young ones, Curry is pretty much worthless in dynasty. Now the Rams have to decide when to turn the page on Bulger and bring in their QBoF and they'll likely know if they have a true WR#1 on their roster after this season. I'm not so sure that they do.......Paging Arrelious or Dez to the podium, St. Louis is on the clock......

What the heck happened to Bulger? He was fantasy gold... Sad to see a player like that just crap out... Bulger was a good QB and got a huge contract then immediately crapped out. It would suck to be a Rams fan.

Injuries and supporting cast, or lack of it, was his undoing.

 

[benm3218]

What are your thoughts about St. Louis' No. 2 WR this season and beyond? Do you prefer Burton or Robinson?

Rotoworld's Evan Silva -- a long-time Rams fan -- weighed in on this subject in today's Pancake Blocks blog:Who will be the Rams' No. 2 Wideout?

I previewed the biggest position battles around the league in Friday's column. To the attentive readers of this blog and the Rotoworld News page, the contents of the article might be considered common knowledge.

Pancake Blocks is here to take you more in-depth with articles on players like Justin Forsett and Devin Thomas. We already know that Adrian Peterson is a good running back, Peyton Manning has the arm strength to succeed at the NFL level, and Larry Fitzgerald has reliable hands.

"Donnie Football" Avery is the Rams' clear-cut No. 1 wide receiver. After him, St. Louis is auditioning three wideouts with interesting resumes for the No. 2 spot. Let's have a look.

1. Keenan Burton - A possession receiver with mid-4.5s speed, Burton was the Rams' fourth-round draft pick two Aprils ago. He battled knee problems for most of his first year, but entered the offseason as the favorite to start opposite Avery. That appears to have changed, as a hamstring injury kept Burton sidelined all spring and he was no longer running with the first team at the outset of training camp. In theory, Burton would be a good fit for new coordinator Pat Shurmur's West Coast offense as a nice-sized (6'0/202) weapon with good hands and chain-moving potential. But Burton is sitting on 13 career catches with an injury-prone label and looks to be headed south on the depth chart.

2. Laurent Robinson - A deep threat with legitimate mid-4.3s speed and over-the-shoulder catching ability, Robinson was poised to start over Michael Jenkins in Atlanta last year before injuries ruined his season. The now-receiver needy Falcons gave up on Robinson fairly quickly despite his promising 37-catch rookie year and shipped him to St. Louis in April for substantial moves up in two rounds of the draft. Robinson practiced with the first team to open training camp. While he too must show durability, Robinson gives the Rams more options than Burton. He is bigger (6'2/194), much faster, and is the pick of the new coaching staff.

3. Ronald Curry - Another trade acquisition, Curry arrived in St. Louis just before camp in a deal with the Lions. Curry slumped badly in Oakland last season, forcing the Raiders to bench him and give seventh-round rookie Chaz Schilens a large bump in playing time. Curry, 30, is the elder statesman of the group but is familiar with the concepts of the West Coast offense and caught 117 passes from 2006-2007 despite playing mostly as a slot receiver. That's Curry's best position, and where he figures to fit in here if he shows good hands in practice and makes the final roster.

With Steven Jackson as the centerpiece, the Rams are intent on running a smash-mouth run-first offense as Marc Bulger and company adjust to Shurmur's system. That limits the upside of all their receivers, Avery included. But the winner of this competition could be good for 50-60 grabs and spot start use in fantasy. It's still early, but Robinson has moved to the forefront and is worth drafting in all leagues.

It should be an interesting battle between the two young ones, Curry is pretty much worthless in dynasty. Now the Rams have to decide when to turn the page on Bulger and bring in their QBoF and they'll likely know if they have a true WR#1 on their roster after this season. I'm not so sure that they do.......Paging Arrelious or Dez to the podium, St. Louis is on the clock......

What the heck happened to Bulger? He was fantasy gold... Sad to see a player like that just crap out... Bulger was a good QB and got a huge contract then immediately crapped out. It would suck to be a Rams fan.

Injuries and supporting cast, or lack of it, was his undoing.

burn - dynasty league action?

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Can I get some thoughts on a couple of guys on who opinions on these boards are somewhat split:

QB

Philip Rivers - was last year his "perfect storm" ceiling scenario of bad defense and banged up LT, or was it the start of his maturation to the next level of QBs and can be built on?

Carson Palmer - have we seen the best of him? Obviously a lot depends on his arm being healed, but I'm kind

of excited by the weapons he has this year, even without Housh

RB

Beanie Wells - Ive heard everything from ROY (apologies to Purple Haze) to knucklehead. Is the talent there for a big impact

Ray Rice - the reports from camp have been very good, but F&L's blog still has him at a tier 4. Why so low? And where do see him going in the next 2-3 years?

Donald Brown - is he essentially just a newer version of Joseph Addai (ie avg talent great situation) or is he good enough

to crack the top 10 in 2 years?

Finally Harvin - I see how everyone here is 200% onboard the hype train, but how high would you take him in

dynasty rookie drafts today? Top 5, top 2 or 3? What rookies do you draft ahead of him right

now?

I'll hang up and listen. Awesome thread as always

 

[renesauz]

I wanted to make the regulars of this thread aware of a new Dynasty League being started. I spoke with Fear & Loathing and we want to use his format for dynasty leagues.

This includes having the fantasy playoffs occur in the actual NFL playoffs.

Now I know this isn't the "norm", but aren't you guys ready for a new challenge, instead of using the info you learned in this thread and on footballguys to beat up your friends that suck at fantasy football anyway?

This thread has become perhaps one of the best dynasty resources on the web, and now I encourage all the regulars to take part in this league.

I think a league with guys like F&L, SSOG, EBF and the other regular experts on this thread would be

A) Incredibly challenging

B) Incredibly fun

What more could you ask for in a dynasty league?

We're looking for ideally 12 teams.

So far we have

1)Fear & Loathing

2)Shader

3)benm3218

Who else wants in?

I want Kremenell in on it. He has strong opinions and it would be fun to put them to the test in the dynasty world.

If it's 10 starters, I'm in.....

If it weren't for that part, I'd be all over it.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

If it weren't for that part, I'd be all over it.

That's the most important part. I'll never go back to the luck-ridden Week 14-16 playoffs in Dynasty leagues.

 

[kremenull]

If it weren't for that part, I'd be all over it.

That's the most important part. I'll never go back to the luck-ridden Week 14-16 playoffs in Dynasty leagues.

I didn't catch that initially. This does seem to be a very unusual format. So if Team A has 6 players on his roster who are still playing in the playoffs and Team B has 10 players available, how would this be addressed?

 

[Fear & Loathing]

If it weren't for that part, I'd be all over it.

That's the most important part. I'll never go back to the luck-ridden Week 14-16 playoffs in Dynasty leagues.

I didn't catch that initially. This does seem to be a very unusual format. So if Team A has 6 players on his roster who are still playing in the playoffs and Team B has 10 players available, how would this be addressed?

That's why this scenario is so much better. This is where the strategy comes in. You can use the waiver wire and trading channels all season long to try to build up a strong playoff roster. You may miscalulate, like guys did when they traded for Jets or Bucs mid-way through last season. Once it gets closer to the end of the regular season, the teams with the better records often trade with the bottom-rung teams for their playoff players. It has the extra benefit of helping to create parity because those playoff players are going to cost you some good young prospects and/or draft picks.Regular season champ and runner-up still get a slice of the pie. They also enjoy home-field advantage for the playoffs, i.e. first place takes +50 in the playoffs, second place +40, third place +30 and so on. Most total points by the end of the Super Bowl wins the championship ... and you know you've earned it. Not only that, but you've had a serious rooting interest in watching the best games the NFL has to offer, when the majority of fantasy leaguers have packed in for the year and started honing their golf swings.

 

[kremenull]

If it weren't for that part, I'd be all over it.

That's the most important part. I'll never go back to the luck-ridden Week 14-16 playoffs in Dynasty leagues.

I didn't catch that initially. This does seem to be a very unusual format. So if Team A has 6 players on his roster who are still playing in the playoffs and Team B has 10 players available, how would this be addressed?

That's why this scenario is so much better. This is where the strategy comes in. You can use the waiver wire and trading channels all season long to try to build up a strong playoff roster. You may miscalulate, like guys did when they traded for Jets or Bucs mid-way through last season. Once it gets closer to the end of the regular season, the teams with the better records often trade with the bottom-rung teams for their playoff players. It has the extra benefit of helping to create parity because those playoff players are going to cost you some good young prospects and/or draft picks.Regular season champ and runner-up still get a slice of the pie. They also enjoy home-field advantage for the playoffs, i.e. first place takes +50 in the playoffs, second place +40, third place +30 and so on. Most total points by the end of the Super Bowl wins the championship ... and you know you've earned it. Not only that, but you've had a serious rooting interest in watching the best games the NFL has to offer, when the majority of fantasy leaguers have packed in for the year and started honing their golf swings.

Can u send me a link to a league like this? I'd be interested to see the late-season transactions. Sounds like you essentially have to try to "buy" a championship ala the Yankees. This does sound somewhat challenging though, as long as it wouldn't involve me to have to totally sell off on most of my developing studs just to "chase the cup".

How much "cheese" are we talking about for the reg. season vs. playoff winner?

And those points, are they essentially the spread that you have over the competition? +50 points advantage in a weekly H2H matchup?

 

[SSOG]

Injuries and supporting cast, or lack of it, was his undoing.

Basically. Orlando Pace got old, the rest of the line got bad, ISAAC BRUCE become isaac bruce, TORRY HOLT became torry holt, and injuries started taking their toll. Bulger wasn't as good as he looked before the extension, and he's not as bad as he looked afterwards. He's basically Jake Plummer- puts up awesome numbers in a good offense and terrible numbers in a bad one.

 

[grtwhtsk]

Can I get some thoughts on a couple of guys on who opinions on these boards are somewhat split:QBPhilip Rivers - was last year his "perfect storm" ceiling scenario of bad defense and banged up LT, or was it the start of his maturation to the next level of QBs and can be built on?Carson Palmer - have we seen the best of him? Obviously a lot depends on his arm being healed, but I'm kindof excited by the weapons he has this year, even without HoushRBBeanie Wells - Ive heard everything from ROY (apologies to Purple Haze) to knucklehead. Is the talent there for a big impact Ray Rice - the reports from camp have been very good, but F&L's blog still has him at a tier 4. Why so low? And where do see him going in the next 2-3 years?Donald Brown - is he essentially just a newer version of Joseph Addai (ie avg talent great situation) or is he good enoughto crack the top 10 in 2 years?Finally Harvin - I see how everyone here is 200% onboard the hype train, but how high would you take him indynasty rookie drafts today? Top 5, top 2 or 3? What rookies do you draft ahead of him rightnow?I'll hang up and listen. Awesome thread as always

I'm also interested in hearing people's thoughts about the above guys, and adding Lesean McCoy to that list.

 

[shader]

If it weren't for that part, I'd be all over it.

That's the most important part. I'll never go back to the luck-ridden Week 14-16 playoffs in Dynasty leagues.

I didn't catch that initially. This does seem to be a very unusual format. So if Team A has 6 players on his roster who are still playing in the playoffs and Team B has 10 players available, how would this be addressed?

That's why this scenario is so much better. This is where the strategy comes in. You can use the waiver wire and trading channels all season long to try to build up a strong playoff roster. You may miscalulate, like guys did when they traded for Jets or Bucs mid-way through last season. Once it gets closer to the end of the regular season, the teams with the better records often trade with the bottom-rung teams for their playoff players. It has the extra benefit of helping to create parity because those playoff players are going to cost you some good young prospects and/or draft picks.Regular season champ and runner-up still get a slice of the pie. They also enjoy home-field advantage for the playoffs, i.e. first place takes +50 in the playoffs, second place +40, third place +30 and so on. Most total points by the end of the Super Bowl wins the championship ... and you know you've earned it. Not only that, but you've had a serious rooting interest in watching the best games the NFL has to offer, when the majority of fantasy leaguers have packed in for the year and started honing their golf swings.

Can u send me a link to a league like this? I'd be interested to see the late-season transactions. Sounds like you essentially have to try to "buy" a championship ala the Yankees. This does sound somewhat challenging though, as long as it wouldn't involve me to have to totally sell off on most of my developing studs just to "chase the cup".

How much "cheese" are we talking about for the reg. season vs. playoff winner?

And those points, are they essentially the spread that you have over the competition? +50 points advantage in a weekly H2H matchup?

What I like about it is that it makes the actual winners of the games count. So often we get so focused on the fantasy aspect that I've caught myself at the end of Sunday going back and saying "ok wait a second, who won the games again?"And of course it's a new challenge which is always fun to try.

 

[JEWMAH9701]

Thanks for the offer, but I'm not interested in joining this league with how the playoffs are set up to run through the actual NFL playoffs.

 

[renesauz]

That's why this scenario is so much better. This is where the strategy comes in. You can use the waiver wire and trading channels all season long to try to build up a strong playoff roster. You may miscalulate, like guys did when they traded for Jets or Bucs mid-way through last season. Once it gets closer to the end of the regular season, the teams with the better records often trade with the bottom-rung teams for their playoff players. It has the extra benefit of helping to create parity because those playoff players are going to cost you some good young prospects and/or draft picks.Regular season champ and runner-up still get a slice of the pie. They also enjoy home-field advantage for the playoffs, i.e. first place takes +50 in the playoffs, second place +40, third place +30 and so on. Most total points by the end of the Super Bowl wins the championship ... and you know you've earned it. Not only that, but you've had a serious rooting interest in watching the best games the NFL has to offer, when the majority of fantasy leaguers have packed in for the year and started honing their golf swings.

Can u send me a link to a league like this? I'd be interested to see the late-season transactions. Sounds like you essentially have to try to "buy" a championship ala the Yankees. This does sound somewhat challenging though, as long as it wouldn't involve me to have to totally sell off on most of my developing studs just to "chase the cup".How much "cheese" are we talking about for the reg. season vs. playoff winner? And those points, are they essentially the spread that you have over the competition? +50 points advantage in a weekly H2H matchup?

What I like about it is that it makes the actual winners of the games count. So often we get so focused on the fantasy aspect that I've caught myself at the end of Sunday going back and saying "ok wait a second, who won the games again?"And of course it's a new challenge which is always fun to try.

Can't see it. The player values get too far out of whack with reality. While it sounds fun, it takes too much away from the core concepts of player evaluations. A more attractive alternative (to me) is to also draft head coaches. You get points on your head coach based on how badly the team wins or loses the game. Make every team draft (and play) at least two...and those two count every week. Since losses are negative points, byes are immaterial (score a zero) and bye coaches can be used.Then, if you hate H2H for playoffs.....go to a 4 or 5 week total points playoff system (not H2H playoffs)...takes away the bad luck F&L fears without bastardizing the playoffs and league trying to run concurrent with NFL playoffs. (Sorry F&L...I can't think of a better term!)