Dynasty Rankings (11 Viewers)

[EBF]

Bennett, Hixon, Stuckey, Jacoby Jones, Shilens, Louis Murphy.Out of the five, who is the most expendable. Just got MSW in a trade so I'm cutting back on WR. IMO: Bennett, is a potential sold #3 Hixon, who knows? what's his contract look like? Stuckey, plugginable as a #4 sometimes. improves along with Sanchez Jones, does he overtake Walter any time soon? Shilens, should I just get out of the Oakland business? Murphy, see Shilens.I'm thinking drop Jones .

IMO Schilens is the best of the group. I would probably drop Murphy or Hixon. Hixon has already blown his chance to become a relevant FF WR and Murphy is utterly mediocre (or worse). Jones at least has some upside and Stuckey is a halfway decent player.

 

[SSOG]

Bennett, Hixon, Stuckey, Jacoby Jones, Shilens, Louis Murphy.Out of the five, who is the most expendable. Just got MSW in a trade so I'm cutting back on WR. IMO: Bennett, is a potential sold #3 Hixon, who knows? what's his contract look like? Stuckey, plugginable as a #4 sometimes. improves along with Sanchez Jones, does he overtake Walter any time soon? Shilens, should I just get out of the Oakland business? Murphy, see Shilens.I'm thinking drop Jones .

Stuckey pretty easily for me. He isn't worth anything now, and he isn't likely to be worth anything in the future.

I figured you would have gone with Murphy.I'd drop Hixon. Like EBF said, he already had his chance, and he already blew it. I don't see him passing any two of Smith, Manningham, *AND* Nicks, and I don't think there's a chance in hell that the Giants can create three fantasy relevant WRs. It's possible he goes somewhere else and does something... but that would make his 3rd NFL team. I'd rather take a chance on a guy who hasn't already demonstrated what he is.After Hixon... next would be Stuckey, then Murphy. Schilens looks like the most talented WR on the list, Bennett looks like the one in the best situation, and I think Jacoby Jones is the one with the most upside. Those three are definite holds.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I figured you would have gone with Murphy.

I'd drop Hixon. Like EBF said, he already had his chance, and he already blew it. I don't see him passing any two of Smith, Manningham, *AND* Nicks, and I don't think there's a chance in hell that the Giants can create three fantasy relevant WRs. It's possible he goes somewhere else and does something... but that would make his 3rd NFL team. I'd rather take a chance on a guy who hasn't already demonstrated what he is.

After Hixon... next would be Stuckey, then Murphy. Schilens looks like the most talented WR on the list, Bennett looks like the one in the best situation, and I think Jacoby Jones is the one with the most upside. Those three are definite holds.

I agree with just about everything here, especially the bolded part.I've never considered Stuckey a fantasy option, and that speaks to how little value he has even as a starting NFL receiver. By next season, he'll no longer be a starting NFL receiver. The Jets prefer him in the slot, but they have no other options at No. 2.

Hixon would be next on my list.

I don't like Murphy's situation, but he's not without NFL talent. He's been better than DHB by leaps and bounds.

 

[SSOG]

I figured you would have gone with Murphy.

I'd drop Hixon. Like EBF said, he already had his chance, and he already blew it. I don't see him passing any two of Smith, Manningham, *AND* Nicks, and I don't think there's a chance in hell that the Giants can create three fantasy relevant WRs. It's possible he goes somewhere else and does something... but that would make his 3rd NFL team. I'd rather take a chance on a guy who hasn't already demonstrated what he is.

After Hixon... next would be Stuckey, then Murphy. Schilens looks like the most talented WR on the list, Bennett looks like the one in the best situation, and I think Jacoby Jones is the one with the most upside. Those three are definite holds.

I agree with just about everything here, especially the bolded part.I've never considered Stuckey a fantasy option, and that speaks to how little value he has even as a starting NFL receiver. By next season, he'll no longer be a starting NFL receiver. The Jets prefer him in the slot, but they have no other options at No. 2.

Hixon would be next on my list.

I don't like Murphy's situation, but he's not without NFL talent. He's been better than DHB by leaps and bounds.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Working on WR rankings right now while I'm on the news shift. Should have them up shortly. Lots of movement.

 

[THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA]

Working on WR rankings right now while I'm on the news shift. Should have them up shortly. Lots of movement.

Nice.Pretty much agree with all of this for the most part.Well i was curious how you can have TO so much higher than TO.I dont think at this point you will find many that will offer Driver for TO. I think either both should be low like Driver or Driver higher??Also Garcon didnt deserve a higher bump?other than that i love it.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Let's talk Garcon, then.

Anthony Gonzalez is coming back in about 3 weeks.

Austin Collie was a higher draft pick, has been targeted more than Garcon the past couple of weeks, and is coming off a fine game himself.

Dallas Clark is basically the No. 2 receiver in this offense.

Where does that leave Garcon? He looks like a situational deep threat to me.

 

[BespokeJort]

nice to see a new set. Mostly pretty close to where i'd have it...would probably have garcon and MSW a little higher (i don't think i'd rather have santana moss in a redraft, much less a dyno) but other than that it seems pretty accurate

EDIT: do you disagree with the line of thinking that when gonzalez comes back he'll move to the slot and garcon will stay outside? I think it'll be gonzalez and collie really eating into each other's role/targets. Out of everyone there (except wayne of course) IMO garcon has the best chance to become a do-everything WR ala Marvin or Reggie Wayne...not saying he'll do it but he's a lot more physical than your average deep threat

 

[Fear & Loathing]

nice to see a new set. Mostly pretty close to where i'd have it...would probably have garcon and MSW a little higher (i don't think i'd rather have santana moss in a redraft, much less a dyno) but other than that it seems pretty accurateEDIT: do you disagree with the line of thinking that when gonzalez comes back he'll move to the slot and garcon will stay outside? I think it'll be gonzalez and collie really eating into each other's role/targets. Out of everyone there (except wayne of course) IMO garcon has the best chance to become a do-everything WR ala Marvin or Reggie Wayne...not saying he'll do it but he's a lot more physical than your average deep threat

Dallas Clark is basically the slot receiver. I think Gonzalez will start opposite Wayne, with Collie and Garcon being used situationally.I'm not sure why Gonzalez got thrown on the trash heap just because he got injured in the first game.

 

[BespokeJort]

nice to see a new set. Mostly pretty close to where i'd have it...would probably have garcon and MSW a little higher (i don't think i'd rather have santana moss in a redraft, much less a dyno) but other than that it seems pretty accurateEDIT: do you disagree with the line of thinking that when gonzalez comes back he'll move to the slot and garcon will stay outside? I think it'll be gonzalez and collie really eating into each other's role/targets. Out of everyone there (except wayne of course) IMO garcon has the best chance to become a do-everything WR ala Marvin or Reggie Wayne...not saying he'll do it but he's a lot more physical than your average deep threat

Dallas Clark is basically the slot receiver. I think Gonzalez will start opposite Wayne, with Collie and Garcon being used situationally.I'm not sure why Gonzalez got thrown on the trash heap just because he got injured in the first game.

by no means am i counting the guy out, he's just always seemed like he was built to be a slot guy. you're right that clark may eat into that though.still, if garcon continues to do what he's been doing with the touches he gets, I'm not sure gonzalez can keep him off the field...I do believe that garcon has the most upside, and so if performance is relatively equal, i feel like things will eventually swing that waydefinitely have to temper short-term expectations some though

 

[editor47]

looks like MSW is a sell high in these rankings. way lower than i thought he would be.

 

[travdogg]

Let's talk Garcon, then.

Anthony Gonzalez is coming back in about 3 weeks.

Austin Collie was a higher draft pick, has been targeted more than Garcon the past couple of weeks, and is coming off a fine game himself.

Dallas Clark is basically the No. 2 receiver in this offense.

Where does that leave Garcon? He looks like a situational deep threat to me.

My thoughts exactly on the bolded. While Garcon has been a decent play the last couple weeks, I wouldn't feel comfortable starting him at all, and that's with Gonzalez out, when he comes back its even riskier.Basically Garcon is looking like the Colts version of Devery Henderson in my opinion. He'll pop off every now and again, but when everyone else is healthy he'll probably have many games where he finishes between 0-2 catches.

 

[SSOG]

nice to see a new set. Mostly pretty close to where i'd have it...would probably have garcon and MSW a little higher (i don't think i'd rather have santana moss in a redraft, much less a dyno) but other than that it seems pretty accurateEDIT: do you disagree with the line of thinking that when gonzalez comes back he'll move to the slot and garcon will stay outside? I think it'll be gonzalez and collie really eating into each other's role/targets. Out of everyone there (except wayne of course) IMO garcon has the best chance to become a do-everything WR ala Marvin or Reggie Wayne...not saying he'll do it but he's a lot more physical than your average deep threat

Dallas Clark is basically the slot receiver. I think Gonzalez will start opposite Wayne, with Collie and Garcon being used situationally.I'm not sure why Gonzalez got thrown on the trash heap just because he got injured in the first game.

Several Colts homers have said that the franchise really wanted to move Gonzalez to the slot this offseason because they feel that's where he's best suited, but that Garcon didn't show enough in the preseason to warrant a starting spot. These same Colts homers have speculated that Garcon might be playing his way into the outside receiver role when Gonzo gets back. I'm not going to rank him a top-30 WR here, but I definitely think a guy with a legit shot at becoming a starting WR in a Peyton Manning offense deserves to be in the top 60. I'd probably put him in the 44-50 neighborhood.

looks like MSW is a sell high in these rankings. way lower than i thought he would be.

He's had 3 good games so far. I'd rank him a bit higher, but not much.On F&L's list, who is ranked above MSW that you would prefer MSW to? Personally, I'd take him over Britt, Roy Williams, and Crabtree. I also might take him over Gonzalez, but that's because I'm putting more stock into the rumblings that the Colts would rather use Gonzalez as their slot WR.

 

[editor47]

nice to see a new set. Mostly pretty close to where i'd have it...would probably have garcon and MSW a little higher (i don't think i'd rather have santana moss in a redraft, much less a dyno) but other than that it seems pretty accurateEDIT: do you disagree with the line of thinking that when gonzalez comes back he'll move to the slot and garcon will stay outside? I think it'll be gonzalez and collie really eating into each other's role/targets. Out of everyone there (except wayne of course) IMO garcon has the best chance to become a do-everything WR ala Marvin or Reggie Wayne...not saying he'll do it but he's a lot more physical than your average deep threat

Dallas Clark is basically the slot receiver. I think Gonzalez will start opposite Wayne, with Collie and Garcon being used situationally.I'm not sure why Gonzalez got thrown on the trash heap just because he got injured in the first game.

Several Colts homers have said that the franchise really wanted to move Gonzalez to the slot this offseason because they feel that's where he's best suited, but that Garcon didn't show enough in the preseason to warrant a starting spot. These same Colts homers have speculated that Garcon might be playing his way into the outside receiver role when Gonzo gets back. I'm not going to rank him a top-30 WR here, but I definitely think a guy with a legit shot at becoming a starting WR in a Peyton Manning offense deserves to be in the top 60. I'd probably put him in the 44-50 neighborhood.

looks like MSW is a sell high in these rankings. way lower than i thought he would be.

He's had 3 good games so far. I'd rank him a bit higher, but not much.On F&L's list, who is ranked above MSW that you would prefer MSW to? Personally, I'd take him over Britt, Roy Williams, and Crabtree. I also might take him over Gonzalez, but that's because I'm putting more stock into the rumblings that the Colts would rather use Gonzalez as their slot WR.

brittroy williamssantana mosseddie royalgonzalezcrabtree evansedwardsocho cincoharvinboweholmesi personally think holmes is one of the five most overrated players in the history of sports. i'm exaggarating, but ... he's just too inconsistent.mike sims-walker is going to finish this year the way brandon marshall finished 2007. then his 2010 is going to be like marshall's 2008. bank on it.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

brittroy williamssantana mosseddie royalgonzalezcrabtree evansedwardsocho cincoharvinboweholmesi personally think holmes is one of the five most overrated players in the history of sports. i'm exaggarating, but ... he's just too inconsistent.mike sims-walker is going to finish this year the way brandon marshall finished 2007. then his 2010 is going to be like marshall's 2008. bank on it.

Wow. So you're giving zero weight to his injury history and putting it all on the last two games?

 

[SSOG]

brittroy williamssantana mosseddie royalgonzalezcrabtree evansedwardsocho cincoharvinboweholmesi personally think holmes is one of the five most overrated players in the history of sports. i'm exaggarating, but ... he's just too inconsistent.mike sims-walker is going to finish this year the way brandon marshall finished 2007. then his 2010 is going to be like marshall's 2008. bank on it.

Wow. So you're giving zero weight to his injury history and putting it all on the last two games?

He's actually had 3 straight good games, and I think his injury history is overrated. With that said... WR17, over Harvin, Bowe, and Ocho Cinco... ballsy call. Hope that works out for you (especially since I'm a Sims-Walker owner, too). I'd gladly trade MSW straight up for Holmes, Bowe, Harvin, or Ochocinco without even pausing to consider or do the slightest bit of research. I could definitely see an argument being made for having him over all the others, though.

 

[editor47]

MSW is WR19 in the FBG 250 going forward. I don't think 17 is that much of a reach.

His last 3 games are better than Harvin's right? I think he's got less competition for catches than Harvin.

He's emerged as the No. 1 WR option in Jax. Holmes hasn't done that in Pittsburgh.

Bowe - I'm not sold on Cassel. I'll take Garrard over Cassel.

Ochocinco. Age is the biggest reason. We are talking dynasty here.

 

[gheemony]

MSW is WR19 in the FBG 250 going forward. I don't think 17 is that much of a reach. His last 3 games are better than Harvin's right? I think he's got less competition for catches than Harvin. He's emerged as the No. 1 WR option in Jax. Holmes hasn't done that in Pittsburgh.Bowe - I'm not sold on Cassel. I'll take Garrard over Cassel.Ochocinco. Age is the biggest reason. We are talking dynasty here.

FBG 250 going forward is not a useful tool. I love FBG, but they over-react to weekly highs/lows. I think Gore was RB2 after his big game.Also, FBG 250 is for this season only, not dynasty.I agree with SSOG's view of MSW's value. I hesitated to pick him up because of his injury history and he got snagged by another savvy owner. I'm regretting that.

 

[SSOG]

MSW is WR19 in the FBG 250 going forward. I don't think 17 is that much of a reach. His last 3 games are better than Harvin's right? I think he's got less competition for catches than Harvin. He's emerged as the No. 1 WR option in Jax. Holmes hasn't done that in Pittsburgh.Bowe - I'm not sold on Cassel. I'll take Garrard over Cassel.Ochocinco. Age is the biggest reason. We are talking dynasty here.

Harvin is a much better talent than MSW. It's very silly to rank two dynasty WRs based on a comparison of their last 3 games. Also, situation changes in a hurry. You say now that MSW has less competition than Harvin, and that's true for this season... but what if Jacksonville brings in Boldin after the season is over? What if they draft a WR in the first round? What if Mike Thomas steps up and starts producing at a high level, too? Bowe is a more proven talent than MSW. Garrard and Cassel are pretty comparable QBs, imo. Garrard's 31- it's conceivable for him to get worse. Cassel's 26- it's conceivable for him to get better. Lots can change in the next year or two. Even if nothing changes- Cassel's already demonstrated he's more than capable of getting the ball to a stud WR. Plenty of great fantasy WRs have played for TERRIBLE NFL QBs (Ochocinco was a stud with Kitna, Boldin was a stud with Blake, Smiff is a stud with Delhomme, etc).Ochocinco is too young to worry too much about age yet- he's a year older than Reggie Wayne and a year younger than Randy Moss, and you don't have a problem ranking both of those players WAY above MSW (presumably). Based on historical aging patterns of all-pro WRs, Ochocinco will produce for 3 more seasons at the same All Pro level, then give one or possibly two more seasons at a reduced (but still fantasy relevant) level. Ochocinco *AVERAGED* 1374/9 over the 5 years immediately before last year's stinkbomb, finishing as WR3, WR9, WR4, WR4, and WR6. So far this year, he's WR6 again, and it looks like last year is behind him. For comparison purposes, in his 5 years since breaking out as a stud, Wayne has averaged 1246/8, finishing 8th, 21st, 3rd, 4th, and 14th. Fantasy football owners have a short memory, but there's really not as much difference between Ochocinco and Wayne as the average person seems to think.Santonio Holmes... to me, it just comes back to talent (both his and Roofles'). I'm higher on him (and Evans) than most. I think he's got legit skills, and I think he'll soon be the legit #1 in a quality NFL passing attack. I also love the fact that Ben is option #1, #2, and #3 in the red zone for the Steelers. Might just be me with my goggles on, but Holmes has always been one of "my guys".

FBG 250 going forward is not a useful tool. I love FBG, but they over-react to weekly highs/lows. I think Gore was RB2 after his big game.

What's wrong with that? It's not Dodds' fault that Gore sprained his ankle on his first carry the week after he ascended to RB2. If we assume that Gore is capable of getting anything that Coffee is capable of getting and just assign Coffee's numbers over the last three weeks (which have all come when Gore was on the sidelines with an injury), then Gore would have 487 yards from scrimmage (3rd in the league) and 4 scores (4th in the league), resulting in 73 fantasy points (2nd in the league). If we assume he would have been even MARGINALLY better than Coffee, then he'd be the #1 fantasy RB in the NFL, hands down, despite playing two of the league's elite run defenses (iirc, both Minny and Arizona rank in the top 5 in fewest fantasy points allowed to RBs).Had Gore not sprained his ankle, I definitely feel that #2 overall ranking would have proven justified. I agree that the T250F can be a bit reactionary at times, but a lot of times that "reactionary" behavior winds up being more accurate than people would have thought. Besides, there are plenty of instances of just the opposite, too- Portis remained in the 9-11 range for the first three weeks of the season despite his slow start (he finally fell after last week), and SJax/Westy/DWill/Burner/Forte have remained high despite sub-par production.

 

[editor47]

MSW is WR19 in the FBG 250 going forward. I don't think 17 is that much of a reach. His last 3 games are better than Harvin's right? I think he's got less competition for catches than Harvin. He's emerged as the No. 1 WR option in Jax. Holmes hasn't done that in Pittsburgh.Bowe - I'm not sold on Cassel. I'll take Garrard over Cassel.Ochocinco. Age is the biggest reason. We are talking dynasty here.

Harvin is a much better talent than MSW. It's very silly to rank two dynasty WRs based on a comparison of their last 3 games. Also, situation changes in a hurry. You say now that MSW has less competition than Harvin, and that's true for this season... but what if Jacksonville brings in Boldin after the season is over? What if they draft a WR in the first round? What if Mike Thomas steps up and starts producing at a high level, too? Bowe is a more proven talent than MSW. Garrard and Cassel are pretty comparable QBs, imo. Garrard's 31- it's conceivable for him to get worse. Cassel's 26- it's conceivable for him to get better. Lots can change in the next year or two. Even if nothing changes- Cassel's already demonstrated he's more than capable of getting the ball to a stud WR. Plenty of great fantasy WRs have played for TERRIBLE NFL QBs (Ochocinco was a stud with Kitna, Boldin was a stud with Blake, Smiff is a stud with Delhomme, etc).Ochocinco is too young to worry too much about age yet- he's a year older than Reggie Wayne and a year younger than Randy Moss, and you don't have a problem ranking both of those players WAY above MSW (presumably). Based on historical aging patterns of all-pro WRs, Ochocinco will produce for 3 more seasons at the same All Pro level, then give one or possibly two more seasons at a reduced (but still fantasy relevant) level. Ochocinco *AVERAGED* 1374/9 over the 5 years immediately before last year's stinkbomb, finishing as WR3, WR9, WR4, WR4, and WR6. So far this year, he's WR6 again, and it looks like last year is behind him. For comparison purposes, in his 5 years since breaking out as a stud, Wayne has averaged 1246/8, finishing 8th, 21st, 3rd, 4th, and 14th. Fantasy football owners have a short memory, but there's really not as much difference between Ochocinco and Wayne as the average person seems to think.Santonio Holmes... to me, it just comes back to talent (both his and Roofles'). I'm higher on him (and Evans) than most. I think he's got legit skills, and I think he'll soon be the legit #1 in a quality NFL passing attack. I also love the fact that Ben is option #1, #2, and #3 in the red zone for the Steelers. Might just be me with my goggles on, but Holmes has always been one of "my guys".

FBG 250 going forward is not a useful tool. I love FBG, but they over-react to weekly highs/lows. I think Gore was RB2 after his big game.

What's wrong with that? It's not Dodds' fault that Gore sprained his ankle on his first carry the week after he ascended to RB2. If we assume that Gore is capable of getting anything that Coffee is capable of getting and just assign Coffee's numbers over the last three weeks (which have all come when Gore was on the sidelines with an injury), then Gore would have 487 yards from scrimmage (3rd in the league) and 4 scores (4th in the league), resulting in 73 fantasy points (2nd in the league). If we assume he would have been even MARGINALLY better than Coffee, then he'd be the #1 fantasy RB in the NFL, hands down, despite playing two of the league's elite run defenses (iirc, both Minny and Arizona rank in the top 5 in fewest fantasy points allowed to RBs).Had Gore not sprained his ankle, I definitely feel that #2 overall ranking would have proven justified. I agree that the T250F can be a bit reactionary at times, but a lot of times that "reactionary" behavior winds up being more accurate than people would have thought. Besides, there are plenty of instances of just the opposite, too- Portis remained in the 9-11 range for the first three weeks of the season despite his slow start (he finally fell after last week), and SJax/Westy/DWill/Burner/Forte have remained high despite sub-par production.

look you asked me for reasons and i gave them to you. i am merely expressing my opinion based on my way of looking at things. that's all your doing. i respect your opinion. we differ. i don't have the energy to go back and compare, but i'd love to see how people reacted on here when - and i hate to do this because it sounds like i'm basing everything on one comparison - say brandon marshall started to break out.i'll just add one more thing: mike sims-walker is 6-foot-2, 208. percy harvin is 5-11, 192. (and i doubt that). my point is, i'd rather go with the big WR than the little guy. (see eddie royal). again, that's my preference.

 

[corpcow]

brittroy williamssantana mosseddie royalgonzalezcrabtree evansedwardsocho cincoharvinboweholmesi personally think holmes is one of the five most overrated players in the history of sports. i'm exaggarating, but ... he's just too inconsistent.

Holmes as the most overrated WR? Really?I find that statement ridiculous. I find he gets little respect in fantasy circles in both dynasty and redraft. If anything, I'd say he's underrated. I was able to grab him as my WR4 (!) in a couple of redrafts. He's actually fairly consistent from week to week, has put together 4 very similar years in terms of production and YPC, and I think he has the talent to emerge as the WR1 with Ben in this emerging pass offense as Ward nears the end of his career.But more importantly, I find it hilarious that you make a statement like that and then put him behind Evans, Santana Moss, Edwards and Eddie Royal. Eddie Royal was JUST as streaky last year (even though he caught more balls than any year of Santonio's career) and has done NOTHING this year. Santana Moss and Evans are both prime examples of inconsistency.

 

[munchkin]

brittroy williamssantana mosseddie royalgonzalezcrabtree evansedwardsocho cincoharvinboweholmesi personally think holmes is one of the five most overrated players in the history of sports. i'm exaggarating, but ... he's just too inconsistent.

Holmes as the most overrated WR? Really?I find that statement ridiculous. I find he gets little respect in fantasy circles in both dynasty and redraft. If anything, I'd say he's underrated. I was able to grab him as my WR4 (!) in a couple of redrafts. He's actually fairly consistent from week to week, has put together 4 very similar years in terms of production and YPC, and I think he has the talent to emerge as the WR1 with Ben in this emerging pass offense as Ward nears the end of his career.But more importantly, I find it hilarious that you make a statement like that and then put him behind Evans, Santana Moss, Edwards and Eddie Royal. Eddie Royal was JUST as streaky last year (even though he caught more balls than any year of Santonio's career) and has done NOTHING this year. Santana Moss and Evans are both prime examples of inconsistency.

How "streaky" would S Moss, Evans and Eddie Royal be on the Steelers? Holmes lines up week in and week out with one of the better QB's in football. I don't know if the rankings give a higher mark for talent than situation or not but that may be the case. I believe any of those other three would be better players than Holmes if they had Roethlisberger throwing them the ball. This may not be what you are arguing so I hope I am not putting words in your mouth.

 

[BeTheMatch]

nice to see a new set. Mostly pretty close to where i'd have it...would probably have garcon and MSW a little higher (i don't think i'd rather have santana moss in a redraft, much less a dyno) but other than that it seems pretty accurateEDIT: do you disagree with the line of thinking that when gonzalez comes back he'll move to the slot and garcon will stay outside? I think it'll be gonzalez and collie really eating into each other's role/targets. Out of everyone there (except wayne of course) IMO garcon has the best chance to become a do-everything WR ala Marvin or Reggie Wayne...not saying he'll do it but he's a lot more physical than your average deep threat

Dallas Clark is basically the slot receiver. I think Gonzalez will start opposite Wayne, with Collie and Garcon being used situationally.I'm not sure why Gonzalez got thrown on the trash heap just because he got injured in the first game.

I've just never been all that impressed with Gonzalez. He's just a guy. Kinda like Collie. Garcon seems like more of a player. I could actually see Garcon emerging as the long-term starter opposite Wayne.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

nice to see a new set. Mostly pretty close to where i'd have it...would probably have garcon and MSW a little higher (i don't think i'd rather have santana moss in a redraft, much less a dyno) but other than that it seems pretty accurateEDIT: do you disagree with the line of thinking that when gonzalez comes back he'll move to the slot and garcon will stay outside? I think it'll be gonzalez and collie really eating into each other's role/targets. Out of everyone there (except wayne of course) IMO garcon has the best chance to become a do-everything WR ala Marvin or Reggie Wayne...not saying he'll do it but he's a lot more physical than your average deep threat

Dallas Clark is basically the slot receiver. I think Gonzalez will start opposite Wayne, with Collie and Garcon being used situationally.I'm not sure why Gonzalez got thrown on the trash heap just because he got injured in the first game.

I've just never been all that impressed with Gonzalez. He's just a guy. Kinda like Collie. Garcon seems like more of a player. I could actually see Garcon emerging as the long-term starter opposite Wayne.

Why?I'm not saying draft slot is everything, but Gonzalez was a first-rounder, Collie was a third-rounder, and Garcon was a sixth-rounder.From what I've seen, Gonzalez is the most talented of the trio. Collie may have the best possession receiver skills, and Garcon seems to be to be a very good situational deep threat. I guess I'm just trying to figure out why Garcon is considered more talented or a better receiver.

 

[BeTheMatch]

nice to see a new set. Mostly pretty close to where i'd have it...would probably have garcon and MSW a little higher (i don't think i'd rather have santana moss in a redraft, much less a dyno) but other than that it seems pretty accurateEDIT: do you disagree with the line of thinking that when gonzalez comes back he'll move to the slot and garcon will stay outside? I think it'll be gonzalez and collie really eating into each other's role/targets. Out of everyone there (except wayne of course) IMO garcon has the best chance to become a do-everything WR ala Marvin or Reggie Wayne...not saying he'll do it but he's a lot more physical than your average deep threat

Dallas Clark is basically the slot receiver. I think Gonzalez will start opposite Wayne, with Collie and Garcon being used situationally.I'm not sure why Gonzalez got thrown on the trash heap just because he got injured in the first game.

I've just never been all that impressed with Gonzalez. He's just a guy. Kinda like Collie. Garcon seems like more of a player. I could actually see Garcon emerging as the long-term starter opposite Wayne.

Why?I'm not saying draft slot is everything, but Gonzalez was a first-rounder, Collie was a third-rounder, and Garcon was a sixth-rounder.From what I've seen, Gonzalez is the most talented of the trio. Collie may have the best possession receiver skills, and Garcon seems to be to be a very good situational deep threat. I guess I'm just trying to figure out why Garcon is considered more talented or a better receiver.

Not a lot of track record obviously with Garcon yet, but he has already passed the eyeball test for me far more than Gonzalez ever has. I've seen a lot of Colts games over the years, and Gonalez just never stood out as anything special to me. I'm not saying Garcon is special yet, but I've seen glimpses of it in the past three games - more than I ever saw out of Gonzalez.

 

[kremenull]

MSW is WR19 in the FBG 250 going forward. I don't think 17 is that much of a reach. His last 3 games are better than Harvin's right? I think he's got less competition for catches than Harvin. He's emerged as the No. 1 WR option in Jax. Holmes hasn't done that in Pittsburgh.Bowe - I'm not sold on Cassel. I'll take Garrard over Cassel.Ochocinco. Age is the biggest reason. We are talking dynasty here.

I like your line of thinking on several of these WR ranking posts........I'll be updating my rankings for 2010 (SNEEK-PEEK) shortly. After 5-6 weeks of data and evaluation, I believe I'll have enough info to make some of these tough decisions. But I second at least one thing mentioned here....Cassel is boo-boo. I never bought into this guy at any time. He should have done even more on such a loaded N.E. offense last year and was way overvalued based on his production in a plug-n-play offense (i.e., plug somebody/anybody with at least a hint of talent in there and they should produce at a relatively high level). I liken the Pats' situation to the Colts' as well as the Pack's offenses. Pretty good to good players should have no problem stepping in at any one of the skill positions (QB, RB, WR, TE) here and producing extremely well.

 

[editor47]

britt

roy williams

santana moss

eddie royal

gonzalez

crabtree

evans

edwards

ocho cinco

harvin

bowe

holmes

i personally think holmes is one of the five most overrated players in the history of sports. i'm exaggarating, but ... he's just too inconsistent.

Holmes as the most overrated WR? Really?I find that statement ridiculous. I find he gets little respect in fantasy circles in both dynasty and redraft. If anything, I'd say he's underrated. I was able to grab him as my WR4 (!) in a couple of redrafts. He's actually fairly consistent from week to week, has put together 4 very similar years in terms of production and YPC, and I think he has the talent to emerge as the WR1 with Ben in this emerging pass offense as Ward nears the end of his career.But more importantly, I find it hilarious that you make a statement like that and then put him behind Evans, Santana Moss, Edwards and Eddie Royal. Eddie Royal was JUST as streaky last year (even though he caught more balls than any year of Santonio's career) and has done NOTHING this year. Santana Moss and Evans are both prime examples of inconsistency.

i apologize if my 'list' was misleading. That is not a list of how I rank those guys. It is simply a list of guys I would put MSW ahead of. I went to Mike Sims-Walker name on F&L's list and started going up from it. That's all there was to it. As for Holmes: You know how many games over 70 yards he had last year? 5. Less than a third. I believe 5 was high for receptions in a game. He's got 10 catches since having 9 in Week 1 this year. I'd bet he doesn't put up another 9 catch game this year. Would I like him on my NFL team? Yes.

Let me let you in for a surprise: He's not rostered in my league. We have a funky scoring system, though, that I don't feel the need to get into.

 

[stevegamer]

MSW is WR19 in the FBG 250 going forward. I don't think 17 is that much of a reach. His last 3 games are better than Harvin's right? I think he's got less competition for catches than Harvin. He's emerged as the No. 1 WR option in Jax. Holmes hasn't done that in Pittsburgh.Bowe - I'm not sold on Cassel. I'll take Garrard over Cassel.Ochocinco. Age is the biggest reason. We are talking dynasty here.

I like your line of thinking on several of these WR ranking posts........I'll be updating my rankings for 2010 (SNEEK-PEEK) shortly. After 5-6 weeks of data and evaluation, I believe I'll have enough info to make some of these tough decisions. But I second at least one thing mentioned here....Cassel is boo-boo. I never bought into this guy at any time. He should have done even more on such a loaded N.E. offense last year and was way overvalued based on his production in a plug-n-play offense (i.e., plug somebody/anybody with at least a hint of talent in there and they should produce at a relatively high level). I liken the Pats' situation to the Colts' as well as the Pack's offenses. Pretty good to good players should have no problem stepping in at any one of the skill positions (QB, RB, WR, TE) here and producing extremely well.

I do think the Colts' offense takes a bit more time since Peyton is in control there with a lot of pre-snap gesturing to indicate plays. He's willing to work route trees & the like as we've seen, so a solid player should "get it", but I'd expect it to take a bit more time, as I doubt any college offense is anything remotely like that.

 

[jdoggydogg]

What's wrong with that? It's not Dodds' fault that Gore sprained his ankle on his first carry the week after he ascended to RB2. If we assume that Gore is capable of getting anything that Coffee is capable of getting and just assign Coffee's numbers over the last three weeks (which have all come when Gore was on the sidelines with an injury), then Gore would have 487 yards from scrimmage (3rd in the league) and 4 scores (4th in the league), resulting in 73 fantasy points (2nd in the league). If we assume he would have been even MARGINALLY better than Coffee, then he'd be the #1 fantasy RB in the NFL, hands down, despite playing two of the league's elite run defenses (iirc, both Minny and Arizona rank in the top 5 in fewest fantasy points allowed to RBs).

I find the Top 250 Forward to be very useful. Yes, it's very reactionary. But I use the 250 list as a solid barometer for trade value. So while a stud player may fall too low given just a week or two of bad play, I do find the list to be an accurate representation of the player's current value.

 

[jdoggydogg]

i'll just add one more thing: mike sims-walker is 6-foot-2, 208. percy harvin is 5-11, 192. (and i doubt that). my point is, i'd rather go with the big WR than the little guy. (see eddie royal). again, that's my preference.

I take it on a player by player basis. Carolina's Steve Smith is only 5' 9" and 179 lbs.

 

[corpcow]

i apologize if my 'list' was misleading. That is not a list of how I rank those guys. It is simply a list of guys I would put MSW ahead of. I went to Mike Sims-Walker name on F&L's list and started going up from it. That's all there was to it. As for Holmes: You know how many games over 70 yards he had last year? 5. Less than a third. I believe 5 was high for receptions in a game. He's got 10 catches since having 9 in Week 1 this year. I'd bet he doesn't put up another 9 catch game this year. Would I like him on my NFL team? Yes. Let me let you in for a surprise: He's not rostered in my league. We have a funky scoring system, though, that I don't feel the need to get into.

Last year was also somewhat of an abberation given his injury + the arrest issues mid-year. And Holmes isn't as valuable in PPR, for sure, but there are plenty of guys like that. The thing about Holmes is that he can do a lot with just a few touches, and yet has flashed that same ability with a great share of catches. I personally think he's a WR14-16 kind of guy - a low-end WR1 / high-end WR2 in a non-PPR.I've always been a fan of Walker, but from a dynasty perspective I would like to see his knees hold up for more than a few games. I've always thought he had tons of ability and upside - that was never my concern with him. I tried to collect him this offseason in as many leagues as I could, but I think this is a bad time to buy on him given that the price is sky-high and we still don't know if he will hold up.

 

[munchkin]

MSW is WR19 in the FBG 250 going forward. I don't think 17 is that much of a reach.

His last 3 games are better than Harvin's right? I think he's got less competition for catches than Harvin.

He's emerged as the No. 1 WR option in Jax. Holmes hasn't done that in Pittsburgh.

Bowe - I'm not sold on Cassel. I'll take Garrard over Cassel.

Ochocinco. Age is the biggest reason. We are talking dynasty here.

I like your line of thinking on several of these WR ranking posts........I'll be updating my rankings for 2010 (SNEEK-PEEK) shortly. After 5-6 weeks of data and evaluation, I believe I'll have enough info to make some of these tough decisions.

But I second at least one thing mentioned here....Cassel is boo-boo. I never bought into this guy at any time. He should have done even more on such a loaded N.E. offense last year and was way overvalued based on his production in a plug-n-play offense (i.e., plug somebody/anybody with at least a hint of talent in there and they should produce at a relatively high level). I liken the Pats' situation to the Colts' as well as the Pack's offenses. Pretty good to good players should have no problem stepping in at any one of the skill positions (QB, RB, WR, TE) here and producing extremely well.

If that is the case then why is Brady struggling this year? Granted, he is coming off an injury, but the team is not looking real fluid. Cassel did pretty well given his playing experience coming into last season. What Cassel has learned is not to throw INT's. The Chiefs are struggling with that offensive line in both the passing and running game.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

What Cassel has learned is not to throw INT's. The Chiefs are struggling with that offensive line in both the passing and running game.

I was never a Cassel believer, but he has no chance in that offense right now. The Chiefs may have less young talent to build around than any team in the league. Their offensive line is craptastic, and the only skill position building block is Bowe. We'll be seeing Brodie Croyle again later this season, and that's just embarrassing.Carl Peterson and Herman Edwards left this organization in dire straits, and Pioli/Haley are going backward before they go forward.

 

[EBF]

I think Andre Caldwell could be due for a move up the rankings. I liked him when he was a draft prospect last season and I think he's been making nice progress for the Bengals. He's quietly on pace for 64 catches and almost 600 yards. That's pretty encouraging production for a second year WR getting his first real shot at significant playing time. Here's what I like about him:

Situation - Palmer is a solid QB who should provide stability for at least 3-4 more years. Ochocinco is still great, but he's on the wrong side of 30. Coles is a shell of his former self. Henry is a niche WR with potential character issues. Caldwell is already getting a lot of playing time and the obstacles in his path to the permanent WR2 job aren't that daunting.

Pedigree - If memory serves me correctly, Caldwell is Florida's all-time leader in receptions. He has a strong frame at about 6' 205 with elite straight line speed and good overall athleticism. He was a third round pick despite injury concerns. I felt he was a bargain when he fell that late last year. On talent alone he belonged with that big cluster of WRs who went in the second round.

Results - As I mentioned earlier, Caldwell has capitalized on his first opportunity for extensive playing time. His early results show the type of strong statistical progression that I like to see from young WRs. If he eventually becomes the uncontested WR2 at some point in the near future then I think Housh type numbers aren't out of the question.

I have made a couple small deals for him in the past 24 hours. In one league I gave up Jermichael Finley/3rd for Caldwell/2nd. In another I gave up Derrick Mason/3rd for Caldwell/4th. I like those prices considering his upside. If you're looking to add a cheap developmental WR to your dynasty squad, I would consider making an offer for Caldwell. He won't cost you a ton and he could eventually be a fixture in your lineup.

 

[new-guru]

Did we miss out on selling Mario M. High?

or will he hold of hicks for a while?

 

[SSOG]

look you asked me for reasons and i gave them to you. i am merely expressing my opinion based on my way of looking at things. that's all your doing. i respect your opinion. we differ.

i don't have the energy to go back and compare, but i'd love to see how people reacted on here when - and i hate to do this because it sounds like i'm basing everything on one comparison - say brandon marshall started to break out.

i'll just add one more thing: mike sims-walker is 6-foot-2, 208. percy harvin is 5-11, 192. (and i doubt that). my point is, i'd rather go with the big WR than the little guy. (see eddie royal). again, that's my preference.

I wasn't trying to talk you out of your opinion or even criticize it, I was merely offering a different viewpoint for the sake of engaging in useful discussion on the players in question.I don't think Marshall is the comparison you want to make. There were a lot of people hyping Brandon Marshall even more than people are hyping Sims-Walker before he ever played a down of NFL football. Brandon Marshall for a long time had the nickname "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" because Sigmund Bloom was at the NFL draft and when Marshall was selected, Bloom reportedly squealed like a little girl in excitement. Also, if you want to talk about hype... check the 11 page Percy Harvin Hype Machine thread. I think the shark pool in general (and F&L in particular) has been very willing in the past to really go out on a limb for young WRs before they ever showed *ANYTHING* at all. The fact that Sims-Walker isn't higher isn't necessarily an indication that the people involved always underrated unproven WRs, it's more an indication of the fact that they just aren't as high on this young WR in particular (whether it's due to talent or injury).

Also, with respect to Percy Harvin... he might be shorter than Sims-Walker, but he is *NOT* a "little guy". Here's a picture of him in college. Remember, he was actually listed as an RB on Florida's depth chart his senior season. Percy is a big, big dude.

 

[gheemony]

What are the dynasty implications of the Braylon Edwards trade?

My quick reaction:

1. Slight bump up for Edwards for being in a better situation.

2. Bump for Sanchez for potentially having a deep threat, WR1 to throw to.

3. Cotchery stays the same. I think the positives and negatives are a wash. He'll still be the go-to guy on 3rd down and the loss of targets to Edwards may balance out with less coverage by the top CB.

4. Jets RBs get a slight bump on the assumption that there are fewer players stacked in the box.

 

[BespokeJort]

I think Andre Caldwell could be due for a move up the rankings. I liked him when he was a draft prospect last season and I think he's been making nice progress for the Bengals. He's quietly on pace for 64 catches and almost 600 yards. That's pretty encouraging production for a second year WR getting his first real shot at significant playing time. Here's what I like about him:

Situation - Palmer is a solid QB who should provide stability for at least 3-4 more years. Ochocinco is still great, but he's on the wrong side of 30. Coles is a shell of his former self. Henry is a niche WR with potential character issues. Caldwell is already getting a lot of playing time and the obstacles in his path to the permanent WR2 job aren't that daunting.

Pedigree - If memory serves me correctly, Caldwell is Florida's all-time leader in receptions. He has a strong frame at about 6' 205 with elite straight line speed and good overall athleticism. He was a third round pick despite injury concerns. I felt he was a bargain when he fell that late last year. On talent alone he belonged with that big cluster of WRs who went in the second round.

Results - As I mentioned earlier, Caldwell has capitalized on his first opportunity for extensive playing time. His early results show the type of strong statistical progression that I like to see from young WRs. If he eventually becomes the uncontested WR2 at some point in the near future then I think Housh type numbers aren't out of the question.

I have made a couple small deals for him in the past 24 hours. In one league I gave up Jermichael Finley/3rd for Caldwell/2nd. In another I gave up Derrick Mason/3rd for Caldwell/4th. I like those prices considering his upside. If you're looking to add a cheap developmental WR to your dynasty squad, I would consider making an offer for Caldwell. He won't cost you a ton and he could eventually be a fixture in your lineup.

have been stashing this guy since the end of last season in my main cash dyno...definitely see the housh potential, and palmer has made clear that he likes the kid

 

[Fear & Loathing]

What are the dynasty implications of the Braylon Edwards trade?My quick reaction:1. Slight bump up for Edwards for being in a better situation.2. Bump for Sanchez for potentially having a deep threat, WR1 to throw to.3. Cotchery stays the same. I think the positives and negatives are a wash. He'll still be the go-to guy on 3rd down and the loss of targets to Edwards may balance out with less coverage by the top CB.4. Jets RBs get a slight bump on the assumption that there are fewer players stacked in the box.

1. Agree. Still has knucklehead potential keeping this from being more than slight.2. Agree. Jets had one of the worst No. 2, No. 3 WR situations in the league. Big improvement.3. I'd dock Cotchery a bit. The trade can be seen as an indictment of Cotchery as a No. 1 WR from the Jets point of view. Not necessarily the case, but they've been trying to deal for a No. 1 for awhile. Edwards will likely command a mega-deal here as well.4. I don't see much of a bump for the RBs. If anything, they may run less now ... and it's already a value-draining committee.

 

[BespokeJort]

What are the dynasty implications of the Braylon Edwards trade?My quick reaction:1. Slight bump up for Edwards for being in a better situation.2. Bump for Sanchez for potentially having a deep threat, WR1 to throw to.3. Cotchery stays the same. I think the positives and negatives are a wash. He'll still be the go-to guy on 3rd down and the loss of targets to Edwards may balance out with less coverage by the top CB.4. Jets RBs get a slight bump on the assumption that there are fewer players stacked in the box.

1. Agree. Still has knucklehead potential keeping this from being more than slight.2. Agree. Jets had one of the worst No. 2, No. 3 WR situations in the league. Big improvement.3. I'd dock Cotchery a bit. The trade can be seen as an indictment of Cotchery as a No. 1 WR from the Jets point of view. Not necessarily the case, but they've been trying to deal for a No. 1 for awhile. Edwards will likely command a mega-deal here as well.4. I don't see much of a bump for the RBs. If anything, they may run less now ... and it's already a value-draining committee.

that all sounds pretty realistic...any thoughts on its impact on keller?

 

[SSOG]

Out of curiousity, F&L, how high have you pushed Ronnie Brown? I know I've been higher on him than you have, but I would prefer him to Michael Turner at this point.

 

[Boone22]

What are the dynasty implications of the Braylon Edwards trade?My quick reaction:1. Slight bump up for Edwards for being in a better situation.2. Bump for Sanchez for potentially having a deep threat, WR1 to throw to.3. Cotchery stays the same. I think the positives and negatives are a wash. He'll still be the go-to guy on 3rd down and the loss of targets to Edwards may balance out with less coverage by the top CB.4. Jets RBs get a slight bump on the assumption that there are fewer players stacked in the box.

1. Agree. Still has knucklehead potential keeping this from being more than slight.2. Agree. Jets had one of the worst No. 2, No. 3 WR situations in the league. Big improvement.3. I'd dock Cotchery a bit. The trade can be seen as an indictment of Cotchery as a No. 1 WR from the Jets point of view. Not necessarily the case, but they've been trying to deal for a No. 1 for awhile. Edwards will likely command a mega-deal here as well.4. I don't see much of a bump for the RBs. If anything, they may run less now ... and it's already a value-draining committee.

that all sounds pretty realistic...any thoughts on its impact on keller?

My initial thought on this was that Keller gets a slight bump up. For 2 reasons... First, Braylon going deep should clear out the underneath stuff for Keller and Second, (and most important) Stuckey's departure means more short routes for Keller.

 

[fsufan]

Forte and Slaton owners, sell. Now.Not going to provide an opinion on Mendenhall. Was it a flash in the pan against a run defense that (repeatedly) got punched in the mouth by a weak run blocking offensive line? or did he finally get the message? I'm just happy he's not on either of my teams so I have to make a decision.

traded slaton for barber

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Out of curiousity, F&L, how high have you pushed Ronnie Brown? I know I've been higher on him than you have, but I would prefer him to Michael Turner at this point.

For the record, I've always liked Brown (not that you want to look thru 87 pages). I remember defending the hell out of him when everybody wanted to rank FWP over him 2 years ago. He's one of the few players EBF and I never saw eye-to-eye on.As of right now, I'd probably rank Brown right about 10th. He's No. 2 on my "Rising" list this week -- right behind Mendenhall.

 

[new-guru]

F&L Do think Mario M. should be sold, and Sold Now!

 

[Fear & Loathing]

F&L Do think Mario M. should be sold, and Sold Now!

I wouldn't advise people to sell him if they were big believers in his talent, but I personally would sell now(!).

 

[munchkin]

F&L, you have Roy Williams at the top of tier five and dropping. Is it because of un-realized talent or the play of Romo? Is this guy worth holding on to as a Dynasty Rip Van Winkle or will he never come out of his stupor?

In the little bit that I have seen of the Cowboys Romo seems to be really off making it difficult to assess the value of the players around him. How can one judge a player's performance if the ball is so far off target. It would be one thing if you could see that the player had the drops, an inability to track the ball or a lack of athleticism to adjust to the ball. How do you rate players under these circumstances? Is the 50 ranking based more on his play or his situation? I am finding him to be one of the more frustrating players on my roster and I am sure I am not alone.

 

[BradtheAg]

i've been offered brandon jacobs for ray rice. i love ray rice but he's not getting the goal line work yet. is there any reason i shouldn't take this offer?

:edit: i may be able to get jacobs/bradshaw for rice/norwood now. seems like a no-brainer. am i missing something?

 

[Fear & Loathing]

i've been offered brandon jacobs for ray rice. i love ray rice but he's not getting the goal line work yet. is there any reason i shouldn't take this offer?:edit: i may be able to get jacobs/bradshaw for rice/norwood now. seems like a no-brainer. am i missing something?

The two questions that come to mind:1. Are you in the thick of the race this season, or are you under .500 already?2. Is this a PPR league?If you're gunning for a title, I would assume Jacobs will be much more consistent the rest of the way. If it's a PPR league, I'd very hesitant to part with Rice.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

F&L, you have Roy Williams at the top of tier five and dropping. Is it because of un-realized talent or the play of Romo? Is this guy worth holding on to as a Dynasty Rip Van Winkle or will he never come out of his stupor? In the little bit that I have seen of the Cowboys Romo seems to be really off making it difficult to assess the value of the players around him. How can one judge a player's performance if the ball is so far off target. It would be one thing if you could see that the player had the drops, an inability to track the ball or a lack of athleticism to adjust to the ball. How do you rate players under these circumstances? Is the 50 ranking based more on his play or his situation? I am finding him to be one of the more frustrating players on my roster and I am sure I am not alone.

It's mostly because I no longer believe in Williams. Romo's accuracy has been a problem, but from what I've seen Williams struggles to separate from coverage are an even bigger problem. He's just nowhere close to being the No. 1 receiver he was acquired to be.